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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Philae Today

Philae Today

by $8 blue check mistermix|  November 14, 201411:52 am| 122 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Here’s the summary from the Guardian:

  • Simulations suggest battery power will last long enough for tonight’s data transmission from Philae between 21:00 and 23:00 GMT.
  • Esa is considering whether to spin Philae’s flywheel (designed to keep the craft upright during flight) to ‘bounce’ the lander into a new position where its solar arrays will get more sunlight to recharge its batteries.
  • 80-90% of the intended science will have been carried out, but there’s some doubt over whether all the data will be uploaded before the lander loses all power.
  • All the lander’s instruments are working well. MUPUS and APXS instruments were used last night and the drill was activated. Esa will know this evening whether drill samples have been taken successfully. There will be more CONSERT radar data tonight, which will be used to try to locate Philae.
  • As the comet reaches its closest approach to the sun next year, there may be enough power from Philae’s solar panels to wake up the lander.
  • 84 images of the comet are being awaited from Rosetta, which will be used to try to locate the lander. There will also be descent and touchdown images relayed from Philae to Rosetta.
  • A manoeuvre command has been sent to Rosetta to keep the Philae landing area in sight over the coming days.

Also, I watched some of the ESA briefing this morning and Matt Taylor was wearing a dark blue hoodie. If he weren’t so pasty white, he could be shot on sight in any Florida gated community, but otherwise there’s nothing controversial about his attire today.

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

122Comments

  1. 1.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 11:55 am

    Philae should have stopped by the Kwik-E-Mart on the way to the comet and picked up some spare AAAs.

    Taylor should have worn a “Yes, I am a dumbass, why do you ask?” T-shirt.

  2. 2.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    They should have put a reflector mirror on Rosetta.

  3. 3.

    Keith G

    November 14, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    Matt Taylor was wearing a dark blue hoodie.

    Too late. My respect for him has already been destroyed. I would never want my daughter to work with him. Wait, I don’t have a daughter. Oh well, I wouldn’t want my cats to work with him.

  4. 4.

    Trentrunner

    November 14, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    Taylor tearfully apologized.

    Good on him.

  5. 5.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    I hope the team get all their science done and get all the data back. May the Force be with them.

  6. 6.

    the Conster

    November 14, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    He’s apologized, so all is forgiven. Now I actually feel sorry for him. He had ONE JOB when the spotlight was on – to represent this great accomplishment – and he blew it. If his little gig with ESA doesn’t work out, there’s likely an opening with the Patriots’ social media team today.

  7. 7.

    pacem appellant

    November 14, 2014 at 12:15 pm

    I was disturbed that an otherwise good Atheist feed I subscribe to on Facebook was vehemently opposed to the “PC, feminist” backlash that was rendered unto Taylor. A lot of the comments were of the quality “dude landed a probe on a comet, he can wear whatever he wants”. No, stupid Facebook commenter, he did not, and he cannot. He was part of a 10,000 person team–an important member, but just one nonetheless. What he chose to wear was a disgrace to women, to scientists, and especially the intersection of the two. I’m glad he apologized. The ESA is going to have to learn about message control. Even the famous Mohawk dude on the NASA Mars lander was respectfully dressed while still being encouraged to keep his personal identity.

  8. 8.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    @the Conster: As much as I want to focus on the lander, I want to make this comment: He fucked up with the shirt, but did he learn afterwards? The true test for him is if he can learn.

    —

    I am still blown away by the pictures taken close to the comet. Just the fact that we can get something that close is awesome.

  9. 9.

    jibeaux

    November 14, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    I think that was a solid and sincere apology, and while it was a bad choice of shirt both artistically and otherwise, I don’t think the magnitude of it exceeded that apology. Really, all you can ask is that people own up to insensitivity and try to correct it, because we are all going to do it.

  10. 10.

    jayjaybear

    November 14, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    How could someone smart enough to land a freaking spacecraft on a freaking comet be stupid enough to wear that shirt for a public photo?

  11. 11.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    @Keith G:
    Apparently, he’s learned his lesson. If you sent the kittehs to work with him now, I trust he would know better than to go on TV wearing a shirt disrespectful to cats.

  12. 12.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    @jayjaybear: Because they’re not the same thing. How can someone smart enough to build a rocket not be able to properly ask a out on a date?

    There’s a reason the nerd stereotype exists.

  13. 13.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Even if he got it on Sky Mall (Hanes commercial reference).

  14. 14.

    srv

    November 14, 2014 at 12:28 pm

    I’m too lazy to search, anyone know why this is Obama’s fault?

  15. 15.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    @jayjaybear:
    It’s a question of different domains. Being smart in space science doesn’t necessarily imply that one is smart in, say, social settings.

  16. 16.

    Citizen_X

    November 14, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    @jibeaux: He actually said “I’m sorry I offended,” not, “I’m sorry if I offended.”

    Note to assholes: the former’s an apology, the latter is not.

    (Not that assholes will listen.)

    Anyway, hope the lander can eventually complete its mission and upload the data.

  17. 17.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 12:32 pm

    @Belafon:
    Great minds think alike.

  18. 18.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    @jayjaybear: Narrow vision…very smart at probe operations, not so fashion conscious.

    It’s an unfortunate byproduct of our heavily specialized work structure.

    On edit: WOW, great minds are on the same brainwave today!

    /highfive

  19. 19.

    jibeaux

    November 14, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    @Citizen_X: exactly.

  20. 20.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    @Citizen_X:

    (Not that assholes will listen.)

    Don Blankenship, CEO of Massey Energy…we’re talking to you, fucktard.

  21. 21.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    @srv: Because. Reasons.

    /insert random Palin word salad here.

  22. 22.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I trust he would know better than to go on TV wearing a shirt disrespectful to cats.

    This is ALWAYS a very good idea, as the moment they develop opposable thumbs, we’re at their mercy. Every missed meal, every underserving of treats, every time you blocked a sunbeam…you will pay, hairless ape. You will pay.

  23. 23.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: “Well, if Obama had just listened to Republicans, they wouldn’t have had to cut funding to NASA, and we could have sent the satellite to the comet, destroying it before it would have hit the earth. Then mankind would have been saved thanks to the grace of God.”

  24. 24.

    kdaug

    November 14, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    IIRC, Philae will fry on the approach to the sun, but is this true for Rosetta too?

  25. 25.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 12:43 pm

    @Belafon: You know, channeling Snowbilly Snooki has been determined by the Surgeon General designate to be hazardous to your health. Drain Bamage may result.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    November 14, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    @srv

    why this is Obama’s fault?

    Philae sounds like filly.
    A filly grows up to be a mare.
    Mare is Latin for sea.
    Benghazi is on the Mediterranean Sea.

  27. 27.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    It could. alternatively, just be a case of fools not differing. But let’s stick with the more flattering option.

  28. 28.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 12:47 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Further proof that the flattering option is closer to the truth.

    Or perhaps the opposite.

    Dunning-Kruger ftw!

  29. 29.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    @NotMax: Irrefudable!

  30. 30.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    @jayjaybear:

    How could someone smart enough to land a freaking spacecraft on a freaking comet be stupid enough to wear that shirt for a public photo?

    Privilege. It’s the biggest single answer to all kinds of questions like this. One of the big points of privilege is that you don’t have to stop and think about how other people will respond to what you’re doing.

  31. 31.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    @srv:

    anyone know why this is Obama’s fault?

    Since when are reasons required to blame Obama?

  32. 32.

    Marc

    November 14, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Why is it worth attacking someone over something so completely trivial as the shirt that they wore? Why is it worth attributing bad intent to everything?

    Jesus Christ, I need to take a break from left blogistan. It’s becoming something ugly.

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    This is ALWAYS a very good idea, as the moment they develop opposable thumbs, we’re at their mercy.

    We’ll be at their mercy as soon as they can wake up from their naps and take a break from chasing the red dot. I’m not holding my breath.

  34. 34.

    srv

    November 14, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    @NotMax: Perfect. I’m just mortafied by what is still going on there.

  35. 35.

    Calouste

    November 14, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    And that’s just one example.

    As another example, burnsie no doubt will show up at some time today to demonstrate that one can be very smart about law and totally clueless about justice at the same time. Just as there are doctors that are very good at dealing with diseases and excruciatingly bad at dealing with patients.

  36. 36.

    Calouste

    November 14, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    @Roger Moore: I blame Obama for that requirement.

  37. 37.

    Someguy

    November 14, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Why hasn’t that fuckhead Taylor been fired yet?

    Gotta be Tories running that space program.

  38. 38.

    Calouste

    November 14, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    @Marc: It wasn’t just the shirt. The guy also made a comment about the lander that dripped with sexism, something along the lines that “she wasn’t easy”.

  39. 39.

    Phylllis

    November 14, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    @NotMax: That’s rather scarily brilliant.

  40. 40.

    the Conster

    November 14, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    @Marc:

    As a thought experiment, imagine the dude wearing a shirt that had pictures of Little Black Sambo, Bojangles, Aunt Jemima and minstrels in blackface all over it, and then make the same comment.

  41. 41.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    Formula 1 is doomed if they do what Bernie Ecclestone suggests: sticking to an audience of rich old men. If the next cohort of rich old men haven’t learned to give a damn about the world’s fanciest go-karts going around in circles, F1 will have no audience.

  42. 42.

    glory b

    November 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    New topic, Senator Jeff Flake’s 21 year old son has pled not guilty to 21 counts of animal cruelty in the deaths of 21 dogs he and his wife were caring for. the dogs were boarded at a kennel his wife runs and they died of heat exhaustion and lack of water (so they wouldn’t eliminate, supposedly). Only one of them had remnants of food in the digestive tract, indicating they may have gone without food or water for possibly 48 hours.

    I don’t know of this is the same one who was using ethnic, religious and racial slurs on a gaming site, but Jeff needds to attend to his family.

  43. 43.

    Linnaeus

    November 14, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    One of the main authors of the Choose Your Own Adventure series, R.A. Montgomery, died on November 9.

    (Apologies if someone already noted this.)

  44. 44.

    Mike J

    November 14, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Two teams dead so far this year, good chance that two more won’t start in ’15. There’s talk of some teams running three cars just to have enough on the grid to look interesting.

    Nobody should listen to Bernie about anything.

  45. 45.

    jibeaux

    November 14, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    As long as we’re on open thread, is anyone else attempting NaNoWriMo? Find me under this same username if you’re so inclined. I’m new, terrible, and slow at it, just what anyone should be looking for in a virtual friend.

  46. 46.

    drkrick

    November 14, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Formula 1 is doomed if they do what Bernie Ecclestone suggests: sticking to an audience of rich old men. If the next cohort of rich old men haven’t learned to give a damn about the world’s fanciest go-karts going around in circles, F1 will have no audience.

    Bernie’s in his mid-80’s and has made his billions. Thinking long term has no upside for him. I really want to hate the guy for stuff like this, but he’s also the one who made safety enough of a priority that the sport can go years instead of weeks between fatalities.

  47. 47.

    TaMara (BHF)

    November 14, 2014 at 1:19 pm

    @Trentrunner: Good for him. Straight forward, no, ‘sorry if anyone was offended”. Took responsibility.

  48. 48.

    Jebediah, RBG

    November 14, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    @srv:

    I’m too lazy to search, anyone know why this is Obama’s fault?

    Failure to lead.

  49. 49.

    Betty Cracker

    November 14, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    @the Conster: I used that exact analogy last night to explain to my husband why the controversy isn’t a nothingburger. Taylor’s apology sounded heartfelt to me. I think he gets it now. Lots of people don’t. Some never will.

  50. 50.

    Trollhattan

    November 14, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    @kdaug:
    Per the Beeb the orbiter will continue to function for months but the lander will succomb to heat as they approach the sun. Interesting to me was its perigee (if that’s the appropriate term here) occurs outside the earth’s orbit, so it doesn’t get all that close to the sun compared to many other comets. Will guess the orbiter is shielded and the lander is not.

  51. 51.

    the Conster

    November 14, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yeah, I agree. I think he’s a good guy who like most good guys, doesn’t ever have to think about the things non-whites and non-males have to think about. When it became such a thing, he realized he’d been careless, so, apology accepted. What more can you ask? Hopefully in the future his name will be prominently associated with the comet and his choice of shirt will be a footnote buried deep in an appendix.

  52. 52.

    Someguy

    November 14, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    @Calouste: @Marc: It wasn’t just the shirt. The guy also made a comment about the lander that dripped with sexism, something along the lines that “she wasn’t easy”.

    I think that’s part of the Navy’s problems – Tailhook and etc. They always refer to ships, planes, all that as She. It’s inherent, structural, sexism. I’m never shocked when scandals break out. Scandal, in this case, is another word for Pulling Back The Curtain.

  53. 53.

    JPL

    November 14, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    My new crush is named Philae.

    @glory b: They also lied and told owners that the dogs ran away. Even if properly ventilated, the space was too small for that many dogs. What a horrid situation.

  54. 54.

    Trollhattan

    November 14, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    @Someguy:
    Shirt guy will probably survive the kerfuffle. Dude I’d I’d hate to be is the SS agent who was on his personal phone, in a vehicle on WH grounds with his K9 dog and without his backup radio, and who completely missed the dude running to the White House instead of “releasing the hound.”

    Would have loved to listen to him mansplain himself out fo that one.

  55. 55.

    Trollhattan

    November 14, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    @Trollhattan:
    Should have said “Perihelion” instead of perigee.

  56. 56.

    Southern Beale

    November 14, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    Someone posted over at my blog that Bush The Lesser had pulled the U.S. out of this project, it’s European and cost $1.5 billion. Assuming that is all correct (I haven’t bothered to verify) but I wonder how many people know this is not, in fact, a NASA project?

  57. 57.

    J R in WV

    November 14, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I’m thinking we should curse the Blankenship borg in every thread, forever.

    Forever!

  58. 58.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    @Calouste:

    It wasn’t just the shirt. The guy also made a comment about the lander that dripped with sexism, something along the lines that “she wasn’t easy”.

    Do you have the full quote? “She wasn’t easy” in and of itself doesn’t sound sexist. We anthropomorphize things all the time, generally to the opposite gender. The most recent Liberty Mutual commercial cracks me up because of the woman talking about her car, “Brad.”

    ETA: I dated a girl in high school who called her period Fred.

  59. 59.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 1:46 pm

    @Trollhattan:

    perigee (if that’s the appropriate term here)

    When the orbit is around the sun, it’s “perihelion” rather than “perigee”. The generic term for any orbit would be “periapsis”.

  60. 60.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    I’ve just started Le Petit Prince (oui, en français). I plan to work my way up to the Project Gutenberg Les Misérables (en français aussi, naturellement), what I downloaded years ago.

  61. 61.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    @the Conster:

    When it became such a thing, he realized he’d been careless, so, apology accepted. What more can you ask?

    The only thing more I can ask from him is that he not make a similar mistake in the future. That said, I’m with the people who see this as evidence of an institutional problem, and I’d like to see how the institution responds.

  62. 62.

    PurpleGirl

    November 14, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: What would a comment about cats with opposable thumbs be without the Cravendale ad:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6CcxJQq1x8

  63. 63.

    Lee

    November 14, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    @Southern Beale: NASA has 3 components onboard. I agree most people think this is totally a NASA project.

  64. 64.

    the Conster

    November 14, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Well, if he truly was a raging fucktard he would’ve doubled down when the spotlight was on him again today. Instead he’s dressed like Bill Belichick. I think he’s learned a lesson.

  65. 65.

    Cervantes

    November 14, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I’d like to see how the institution responds.

    You did.

    His apology was partly (and part of) the institutional response.

  66. 66.

    Calouste

    November 14, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    @Belafon:

    http://sen.com/news/philae-on-course-for-landing-despite-thruster-snag

    Speaking today at mission control, Rosetta’s chief scientist is Dr Matt Taylor said: “Rosetta is the sexiest mission there has ever been. I say she is sexy – but she is not easy.”

  67. 67.

    Amir Khalid

    November 14, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    @Someguy:
    There’s nothing sexist about that. In fact English is kind of an outlier among European languages, in that it almost never assigns gender to anything but humans. The other Germanic languages still do (e.g. das Schiff in German which is a neuter noun), and so do the Romance languages. (Non-human animals get their gender recognised rather more often nowadays, but not so long ago this too was rare.) And calling ships and countries “she” sounds more and more archaic nowadays, so even that is going.

  68. 68.

    kindness

    November 14, 2014 at 2:01 pm

    People. People. Really now, get with the program.

    It is all and will always be Hillary’s fault.

    Obama is so November 3rd.

  69. 69.

    blueskies

    November 14, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    @jayjaybear: Man, you must have never, ever, and I mean EVER EVER, met an engineer.

  70. 70.

    Tommy

    November 14, 2014 at 2:05 pm

    @the Conster: You have to dress like Bill Belichick not to piss people off. The shirt I am wearing now says “E=MC2.” Just a black tee and that statement in white. Should I have to think it this tee will work on national TV? Harkins made think back to the day of a friend of mine that loved going to Britches in Georgetown where he could buy quality tee shirts with no name on them.

  71. 71.

    Southern Beale

    November 14, 2014 at 2:05 pm

    Also everyone is annoying me today because they’re talking about how the House voted to approve Keystone XL like it’s some kind of news, like the House hasn’t already voted on Keystone about 6 times in the past 4 years. I swear, the GOP caucus issues a news release and everyone trips over themselves. This is like Obamacare being voted on 50 bazillion times.

    Call me when the Senate votes. Until then, I could give a flying fuck.

  72. 72.

    blueskies

    November 14, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    @Roger Moore: Privilege? Maybe. Not knowing the man personally, but personally knowing many engineer/scientist types, I’d say more likely it’s obliviousness.

  73. 73.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    @Calouste: OK. “Sexy” needs to be retired from the space program. Taylor needs to pick up words like “coolest”.

  74. 74.

    Southern Beale

    November 14, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    Newly insured Americans love their Obamacare.

  75. 75.

    Belafon

    November 14, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    @Southern Beale: Not enough to vote on it, obviously.

  76. 76.

    blueskies

    November 14, 2014 at 2:13 pm

    @drkrick: Meh. It’s also worth noting that when Bernie started the business, he offered to split TV and other media rights/profits with the teams. They declined because of a $100k (each) upfront capitalization requirement. That’s the braintrust he was working with. $100K for what was clearly a giganormous amount of profits in the very near future and a giganormousX10 amount of profits beyond. Lord March still laughs at / kicks himself (and the other then-owners) that they turned Bernie down.

    So, they lost the future profits, and worse, they gave up a lot of the power for how the series is run.

  77. 77.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 14, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    @pacem appellant:

    I was disturbed that an otherwise good Atheist feed I subscribe to on Facebook was vehemently opposed to the “PC, feminist” backlash that was rendered unto Taylor.

    Otherwise good–? You’re not aware that anglophone atheism has been divided into two camps, pro- and anti-feminist for TWO YEARS NOW?

    You think Rebecca Watson was making stuff up or something? You just woke up from your nap underneath a rock?

  78. 78.

    Nemo_N

    November 14, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    I am heartbroken to see my friend getting upset for the world to see just because he was himself. What he achieved was lost in negativity.

    https://twitter.com/ellypriZeMaN/status/533287464497332225

    When did liberals started relishing in being assholes? Where did all this thing go so fucking wrong?

  79. 79.

    Trollhattan

    November 14, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    Thanks. (At least I didn’t say paregoric.)

  80. 80.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 14, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    @glory b: The Flake crime family.

  81. 81.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 14, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    @Linnaeus: Aw. Dang. I enjoyed those as a whelp.

  82. 82.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 14, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    @Nemo_N: Concern troll is very concerned.

    Why don’t we have more empathy for white male lurkers who might have to rethink some small aspect of their lives because they heard that a woman or a person of color or a member of a sexual minority or a religious minority had a problem with something? WON’T ANYBODY THINK OF THE LURKERS WHO DON’T RELISH THINKING?!

  83. 83.

    Nemo_N

    November 14, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Oh yes I forgot! Women are such fragile things that they might give up on their space exploration dreams because of a shirt! Protect the women! Protect your daughters!

  84. 84.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 14, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    @PurpleGirl: Thank you.

    I should macro that or something…

  85. 85.

    the Conster

    November 14, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    @Nemo_N:

    Please explain to me like I’m five years old why it’s too much to ask for a man to not wear something over the top offensive to women?

  86. 86.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 14, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    @Southern Beale: Too bad they’re going to lose it.

  87. 87.

    Gravenstone

    November 14, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    @Nemo_N: And what specifically (details matter) is your connection to the STEM community that you know for a fact that women don’t have an uphill climb for various systemic reasons?

  88. 88.

    Nemo_N

    November 14, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    @Gravenstone:

    Ah yes, women are being put down by silly shirts.

  89. 89.

    Cervantes

    November 14, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    @Nemo_N:

    Thought experiment: Can you imagine a work environment so creepy that you constantly feel unwelcome? (It’s a yes-no question.)

  90. 90.

    Gravenstone

    November 14, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    @Nemo_N: A question was asked, interesting that you choose to avoid it. I see no reason to believe you are a credible person on any subject. Goodbye.

  91. 91.

    the Conster

    November 14, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    @Nemo_N:

    Way to miss the point, you dismissive asshole. Privilege – you’re soaking in it.

  92. 92.

    Nemo_N

    November 14, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    @Gravenstone:
    Good riddance.

    @Cervantes:
    If my boss (a woman) wore a shirt with a bunch of half-naked men in leather I would think she is pretty awesome.

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 4:02 pm

    @blueskies:

    Privilege? Maybe. Not knowing the man personally, but personally knowing many engineer/scientist types, I’d say more likely it’s obliviousness.

    Obliviousness to how other groups will perceive you is a privilege. A woman in STEM who was that oblivious to men’s feelings would never have gotten far enough to be in that position.

  94. 94.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 4:06 pm

    @Cervantes:

    His apology was partly (and part of) the institutional response.

    That’s true, but we don’t know what the institution was responding to. Only time will tell that. I want to see if the response is limited to PR damage control or if they actually do some institutional soul searching and try to change their culture in ways that make it genuinely more accepting of women.

  95. 95.

    Cervantes

    November 14, 2014 at 4:07 pm

    @Nemo_N:

    If my boss (a woman) wore a shirt with a bunch of half-naked men in leather I would think she is pretty awesome.

    That’s great, really, but it’s not what I asked.

    Here’s my question again: Can you imagine a work environment so creepy that you constantly feel unwelcome?

    It’s a yes-no question.

  96. 96.

    Nemo_N

    November 14, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    @Cervantes:

    How does that have anything to do with a silly shirt? Also, I think your yes-no proposition is bullshit, but hey, I suppose you have to limit the answers if you know your argument is bullshit.

  97. 97.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    @Nemo_N: It’s not just the shirt. It’s the shirt coupled with all the other sexist crap you (I am assuming) and I don’t have to deal with every fucking hour of every day. Lots of little things can add up to create a very unwelcoming environment. I am sure that many of those things are “no big deal” individually, but collectively it is different.

  98. 98.

    Tree With Water

    November 14, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    I have problems programming my TV set, and those people are communicating with a laboratory they landed on an asteroid.

  99. 99.

    Nemo_N

    November 14, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    For starters, we have no idea what the environment at ESA is, other than one of their guys wears silly shirts made by a girlfriend. And second, if there are sexism problems in their institution, silly shirts shouldn’t be part of it. I’m an old school liberal, so my solution to this “problem” is to let the women wear shirts with half-naked men (if they wish do to so), not make a shitstorm out of this particular one.

  100. 100.

    Calouste

    November 14, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    @Nemo_N:

    I’m an old school liberal

    No, you’re not, you’re a libertarian.

    Liberals have empathy, i.e. are able to understand problems from someone else’s point of view, something you have exhaustively demonstrated you don’t have.

  101. 101.

    Cervantes

    November 14, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    @Nemo_N:

    So you can’t answer either yes or no?

    (Another yes-no question.)

  102. 102.

    burnspbesq

    November 14, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    @Calouste:

    Fuck you.

  103. 103.

    Nemo_N

    November 14, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    @Calouste:

    Well yeah, I admit my empathy often fails me when dealing with people who judge other people based on the silly drawings on their clothes.

    I’m not going to think any less of a woman wearing a shirt with half-naked men on it, just as I won’t think any less of a guy doing so.

    I’m still a liberal, much to the annoyance of this new batch of puritans disguised as liberals.

  104. 104.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    @Nemo_N: Just keep fucking that chicken.

  105. 105.

    Calouste

    November 14, 2014 at 5:23 pm

    @Nemo_N: There’s a difference between puritanism and wanting to have a respectful workplace for everybody.

    I could explain the difference to you, but I got a shipment of coal I need to send to Newcastle.

  106. 106.

    the Conster

    November 14, 2014 at 5:26 pm

    @Nemo_N:

    It’s not all about what you think you stupid dismissive privileged fuck.

  107. 107.

    munira

    November 14, 2014 at 5:33 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I read Les Misérables en français a few years ago. I’m pretty fluent in French and it still took a long time, but it’s really really good. The only chapter I couldn’t deal with was the one on French slang in Hugo’s time. It was incomprehensible.

  108. 108.

    SRW1

    November 14, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    @Calouste:

    His choice of attire for the occasion was stupid, his choice of language was idiotic, the achievments of the project he was an important part of was phenomenal, and his appology seemed utterly sincere.

    My admittedly entirely speculative diagnosis is a form of high-functioning autism. If that indeed applies, what I find totally incomprehensible is why none of his colleagues or bosses stepped up to save him from himself. There must have been people who have worked with him and knew him well.

  109. 109.

    dance around in your bones

    November 14, 2014 at 5:38 pm

    @glory b: Oh, the fucking fuck.

    Back to Fry and Laurie.

  110. 110.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 14, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    @Nemo_N: Its not really about the shirt at all, the shirt is symbol of the pervasive hostility both direct and implied to women in the hard sciences. Its a signal, stay away or enter at your own risk, this is a boys club.

  111. 111.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 14, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    @SRW1: The shirt says more about the culture in physics and astronomy departments than its say about the individual.

  112. 112.

    SRW1

    November 14, 2014 at 5:51 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    For a crowning challenge I would recommend Albert Camus ‘L’Etranger’ (sorry, can’t locate the missing accent aigu on my keyboard), naturellement en original. We did segments of it for French class in Gymnasium and were mostly left utterly baffled. Apparently, even the French aren’t quite sure about all the ins and outs of its message, though.

  113. 113.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 14, 2014 at 6:04 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: When I was in grad school, astronomy seemed like much less of a boys’ club than physics. Don’t know if that’s still true.

  114. 114.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 14, 2014 at 6:06 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Most astronomy grad students (all male) I knew had egos the size of Jupiter.

  115. 115.

    Cervantes

    November 14, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    At MIT they’re about the same in that regard.

  116. 116.

    Cervantes

    November 14, 2014 at 6:17 pm

    @the Conster:

    It’s not all about what you think

    That Nemo_N does not understand that is part of the problem.

    Another part of the problem is the quality of the thinking — and imagination — to begin with; much lower than advertised.

  117. 117.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    Why do some of the exchanges on this issue remind me of this:

    Ian Faith: They’re not gonna release the album… because they have decided that the cover is sexist.

    Nigel Tufnel: Well, so what? What’s wrong with bein’ sexy? I mean there’s no…

    Ian Faith: Sex-IST!

    David St. Hubbins: IST!

  118. 118.

    Cervantes

    November 14, 2014 at 7:40 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Funny.

    Less funny, and I’m sure you agree, is some people’s construction of straw men seemingly designed to avoid dealing with the issue at hand. Some think of this behavior as oblivious and attribute it to privilege, but I think the overt refusal to confront the problem may come out of resentment (and the two causes can be related, of course).

    Anyhow, Taylor learned something; maybe others did, too; and while institutions always need to be scrutinized, perhaps people can focus on the science for a bit.

    Have a good week-end.

  119. 119.

    divF

    November 14, 2014 at 8:01 pm

    @Amir Khalid: When you get done with that, you can take on the Memoires de duc de Saint Simon. 21 volumes of meticulously recorded gossip from the court of the Sun King.

  120. 120.

    glaukopis

    November 14, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    @jayjaybear: Math, physics and engineering skills are not the same as people skills.

  121. 121.

    Roger Moore

    November 14, 2014 at 8:17 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I plan to work my way up to the Project Gutenberg Les Misérables (en français aussi, naturellement), what I downloaded years ago.

    Not À la recherche du temps perdu?

  122. 122.

    Jebediah, RBG

    November 14, 2014 at 9:30 pm

    @Cervantes:

    some people’s construction of straw men seemingly designed to avoid dealing with the issue at hand.

    Lot easier and more comfortable to make straw men than to admit and examine one’s privilege.

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