A lot of progressive Democrats have agitated, not without reason, for a serious challenger to the “coronation” of Hillary Clinton in 2016. Well, now we’ve got one. Per Dave Weigel, at Bloomberg Politics:
Jim Webb, a veteran of Ronald Reagan’s administration who served one term as a Democratic U.S. senator from Virginia, has launched a presidential exploratory committee. Late Wednesday night, Webb uploaded a 14-minute statement to YouTube, and a campaign site—Webb2016.com—went live…
It probably says something about Webb’s dark horse status—or about the priorities of the media—that Webb2016.com was registered on Oct. 20 and nobody really noticed. Webb, who was a star candidate as soon as he was drafted to run for Senate, became known as a thoughtful politician who did not care for the grip-and-grab of campaigns…
After the Democrats’ 2010 election rout, Webb spoke out with unusual candor about the ways the party had lost working class white voters. He announced just three months later that he would retire from the Senate, clearing a path for the much more electorally inclined Tim Kaine to run for his seat. In 2012, a liberated Webb kept on criticizing the way Democrats had governed under President Barack Obama. He returned to the campaign trail to stump for the president anyway…
More details and video at the link.
Okay, Jim Webb is no Elizabeth Warren, not even a Martin O’Malley-style policy wonk. Just two months ago, EvenTheLiberal TNR dismissed the idea that Webb would actually run (“Webb’s anger has served him—and, oftentimes, his country—well over the years. The problem with all of this is that once the proximate cause of Webb’s anger is resolved and his frustration dissipates, so does Webb’s interest in politics.”) — their latest dream Democrat seems to be Sherrod Brown. But Harry Enten at FiveThirtyEight looks at some numbers and says “Jim Webb Would Make A Good Anti-Clinton In 2016“:
… Over the course of the past year, seven national polls included a breakdown by political ideology. In those seven polls, Clinton tended to do better with Democrats who consider themselves liberal…
The difference isn’t huge, but it’s clear Clinton has less support among moderate and conservative Democrats than she does among liberal Democrats.
Additionally, three CNN surveys have asked Democratic primary voters whether they prefer Clinton, a “more conservative Democrat” or a “more liberal Democrat.” Clinton has averaged 67 percent in these surveys. The more liberal Democrat has averaged just 11 percent. The more conservative Democrat, on the other hand, has averaged 18 percent. Again, Clinton is the heavy favorite, but anti-Clinton voters prefer a more conservative option.
The same holds true for independents that lean Democratic… Again, Clinton does well with all groups, but there’s more room on her right than her left…
My emphases. It’s hard to believe from out here on the (not so) far left DFH fringes of modern American political discourse, but there’s a lot of “conventional wisdom” conviction that Hillary Clinton is actually left-of-center. (If one assumes, like Politico, that the CW center runs from GHWBush on the left to GWBush on the right, HRC does look like a radical leftist.) We’ve already started mocking the possibility of any Democratic contender running to her right, but maybe that’s a problem with our perspective.
eemom
Glad you posted about this, which as a Virginia resident and erstwhile supporter of Webb I find quite interesting.
He lost me when he dissed the ACA.
JGabriel
Anne Laurie:
By our perspective, I assume you mean: informed.
If the primary comes down to Webb or Clinton, I’ll probably go with Clinton – unless Webb develops a populist streak like Warren’s.
gratuitous
My stance is any competition for the nomination will be good for the party. Whether Webb is to the right of Clinton or to the left (snrk!), I think more candidates will bring out more issues. A 16 month coronation march will mean that any dissent from the candidate’s stances will be the province of pony-wanting dirty fucking hippies who don’t understand how the real world works.
No thanks.
Omnes Omnibus
Jim Webb is a serious Name. If he enters the race, it will open the door for other people to do so. I won’t vote for him in a primary, but I think his decision to jump in is good for the process.
divF
Jeez, AL, we have to watch you every second, lest you sneak in a new thread (but thanks for letting us know).
srv
We already have a democrat to her right, he’s in the White House.
Webb is a dilattante.
Omnes Omnibus
@JGabriel: Webb will run as a populist. He has a thing about “people of the soil*.” He comes from that background and has stayed in touch with it.
*Simpson’s reference.
Irony Abounds
@JGabriel: Actually, that’s the one thing Webb is pretty solid on. He is a lot closer to Warren on economic issues than Hillary has been, and he certainly is no friend of Wall Street. He is also much less of a hawk. I don’t think the dirty hippie wing of the Democratic Party will ever warm up to him, and he is lacking in charisma, but someone has to interject populism from the Democratic side so at least there is someone in early that espouses populist positions.
eemom
Totally ridiculous to try to classify him in terms of “left of” or “right of” Clinton or anybody else, though. He really is sui generis.
p.a.
Can someone please tell me HRC’s qualifications to run the executive branch of the US gvt? I’m not talking about her policy positions. What has she done? I don’t remember much about WJC’s National Healthcare Initiative except she was on point for that mess (it was a fine endeavour but I can’t knock her that much. The country wasn’t ready. . A carpetbag Senator. A modestly effective Sec. of State. An innefective Presedential campaigner- until she (or her handlers) started using dog whistle politics.
eemom
@Irony Abounds:
That’s an understatement.
Anne Laurie
@JGabriel:
Well, yeah, you remember the old Adlai Stevenson joke: It’s not enough to win “every informed” voter, you need a majority.
One thing I decided not to include in the post itself: What if HRC offers Webb the VP slot? He’s young enough & Y-chromosome’d enough to appeal to the people who worry Herself is too old and/or leftist. And despite the easy objection, in my experience ex-Marines are like bull terriers — perfectly happy with a male or female leader, as long as said leader establishes their authority, possibly via the use of force.
p.a.
@Irony Abounds:
Then where will the money come from? I don’t see Webb inspiring the small contributor outpouring Obama did.
Omnes Omnibus
@p.a.: Senator and Sec. of State on a resume are generally considered to be decent resume entries for a presidential candidate. Barack Obama had been a State Senator and had completed only a paril term as US Senator when he ran. Did you have concerns about his qualifications? HRC’s resume is good enough. The question is whether she is the best candidate.
NotMax
Doubt if one in ten of those polled who are not political junkies could articulate a single policy position of HRC. It’s all name recognition at this point, people reflexively expressing support for the familiar name versus the unknown.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie:
Really???? And I am not one to defend Marines, but really?
JGabriel
@Anne Laurie:
Heh. True ‘dat.
Omnes Omnibus
@p.a.: Per you: Hillary isn’t qualified. Webb can’t raise cash. Okay, who’s your dude/tte?
Comrade Luke
So our choices so far are Clinton and a veteran of the Reagan administration.
What could possibly go wrong.
Omnes Omnibus
@Comrade Luke: Webb had issues with 80s Democratic foreign policy. That was his thing. He is a a pro-working class populist. Many folks called for one. I said working class populism can come with a price. Here is your working class populist. Now what?
dance around in your bones
Ok, gotta bail or find another movie to watch. Or maybe some more Eddie Vedder of the beauteous eyes.
This politics shit gets too heavy for me sometimes, so I spoze y’all are wondering why I hang out on BJ. Cuz I like to laugh and tell stories, mainly..
dance around in your bones
Ok – moderfuckingration for no fucking reason, DEF gonna go watch some music videos, gawd damnit.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, I’ve had people assure me that an ex-Marine like Webb wouldn’t take orders from a woman. But the ex-Marines of my experience, while not necessarily liberals, were frequently less sexist in that sense than the upper-middle-class non-vets looking down their noses. They’ve all responded better to direct requests (orders) than to corporate-speak BS, though!
Mandalay
@Irony Abounds:
His web site is understandably vague on his specific positions right now, but he did throw this out:
So while Elizabeth Warren is asking for more regulation, and increased accountability from business, Jim Webb wants less government intrusion, and less paperwork.
srv
Dear Leader Tweeteth:
@Mandalay:
Hey, Jim, maybe you should have a beer with Joe the Plumber.
What a twit.
DivF
I don’t trust Webb. He is aloof and lacks passion for politics. Also, his Marine background puts me off. My father was a career soldier and took pride in his profession, while respecting other professions. Marines take esprit de corps a little too far, from professionalism to something more tribal. That also dovetails into his scots-Irish tribalism. the dems need a leader who is very inclusive and I have serious doubts about Webb on that score.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Anne Laurie: If you talk to someone who served in the Marine Corps, they will tell you there are NO ex-Marines.
srv
@DivF: Why can’t you give white men one last President?
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie: I would simply say that a military officer would accept legal orders from the chain of command. An ex-military officer would do the same thing while serving in a civilian capacity Actually, my biggest objection was your mention of the establishment of authority thing and the comment about the use of force.
Morzer
I thought Webb quit the Senate because it was all just a bit too sordid and boring for his virtuous self? Also, I don’t want to deny the man his due, but he generally has about as much charisma as a tree stump.
Then there’s the little matter of his essay “Women Can’t Fight” on women in combat and affirmative action being “state-sponsored racism”.
I really have severe doubts that this is the challenger we should be looking for.
dance around in your bones
Y’all know I sold Vincent Price an Oriental rug , right?
Did I ever tell you I sold Mick Jagger or Keith Richards a guitar strap from Central Asia? I wish I could find a picture – the strap of course was not MADE for a guitar, but it did good duty, being all embroidered and all.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: Hence the title.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer:
Well, obviously. OTOH, ever so many people wanted a populist candidate. Here he is. He is real populist. Now what?
DivF
@srv: I’d settle for another bill Clinton (but one who could keep his pants zipped). From a policy standpoint Martin O’Malley would suit me fine (plus he graduated from the same high school I did).
Alison
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much of a jerk am I for telling someone not to be a gullible dipshit and believe the snake oil their “holistic” doctor is spewing? Like, it isn’t gonna hurt me at all, but I hate seeing people hoodwinked by that crap. Especially when the so-called treatment is just taking massive doses of certain vitamins, as though it’s impossible to overdose on them. PRO-TIP: it happens.
If I’m a super jerk, I don’t really care. Science, bitches.
Omnes Omnibus
@srv: Not your best effort.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
He’s a populist for “his own people” – namely Scots-Irish rednecks. How does that fit with the Democratic coalition?
My take is that Webb is ideally suited to make HRC look inauthentic by comparison in areas where she might have hoped to do better than Obama, while being a terrible fit for the majority of the Obama coalition. I think HRC will fillet him in the primaries, but take some not-insignificant damage herself – without becoming a better candidate.
eemom
@Anne Laurie:
You are perhaps unaware that one of his major issues as a candidate in ’06 was having opposed women in the military, back in the 1970s?
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: That’s what populism can engender. All the people who claim they want it don’t really know what it my entail. The early 20th century Progressives (although terribly flawed) were fare better than the late 19th century Populists. And so it goes.
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
dude. I lovez ya, but stop repeating this “populist” mantra. He is at best a selective populist, as Morzer says.
And have I mentioned, FUCK HIM, for shitting on the ACA?
Last but not least, Raven is gonna love waking up to this thread.
Morzer
@eemom:
That noble bird is probably licking his beak with a lean and hungry look even as we type.
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: Hey, you may have noticed from subsequent comments that I am not the worlds biggest fan of “Populism.” As a result, my comments saying he is a populist are not intended to be endorsements.
Morzer
To me the most interesting thing about Webb is this decision to go for the presidential nomination not so long after just up and leaving the Senate for no particularly good reason. It makes me wonder about his temperament and judgment.
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
At this point in the discussion I think we need to define “populist.”
At this point in the discussion I also need to get my ass to bed soon so that people who pay me to define shit for a living don’t fire it tomorrow.
Joe Buck
All of this incorrectly presumes that political positions can be put on a straight line from left to right. I suspect that many Tea Party types might actually find Elizabeth Warren a more attractive candidate than Hillary Clinton, because she’s a populist and attacks the bankers.
p.a.
@Omnes Omnibus: sorry it took so long to respond. I supported O in 2008 but I did have concerns about his inexperience; and I think that was borne out mostly in his “relationship” with the Republican House. You can’t negotiate with terrorists.
2016? Unknown. Not sure how much talent the D’s have in governor’s mansions.
I’m pointing out what I perceive as weaknesses, not disqualifications. And if Dems can retake the Senate, I think Warren and Sanders can be more valuable there; they provide some backbone to a Dem party too often spinally challenged.
eemom
@Morzer:
Once again, while not a fan of the man, I have to say he didn’t just “up and leave the Senate for no particularly good reason.” He didn’t want to deal with the shitshow of a reelection campaign against the republican machine. Can’t totally fault him for that.
More broadly, can’t fault him for just fucking hating what campaigning, and politics, have become in our godforsaken times.
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: I have read enough history to know that Populist positions are not necessarily liberal positions and are really unlikely to be Social Democratic positions.
Amir Khalid
@dance around in your bones:
You don’t remember whether it was Mick or Keith? Interesting.
Omnes Omnibus
@p.a.: You bitched about two potential candidates…. I am just asking for something positive…
Morzer
@eemom:
I would have said that quitting because you thought your re-election campaign might be tough is the epitome of “for no particularly good reason”. If you can’t face the GOP when they come after your Senate seat, how the hell are you going to run against them for the Presidency?
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
The Raiders beat the Chiefs. Scrappy little guys can win, sometimes.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: I will say one thing good about Webb. The GI Bill enhancements that he wrote is helping the kid get through nursing school. But I tend to agree with your primary point.
eemom
My beloved old Webster’s (1995 ed.) defines populism as “a political philosophy directed to the needs of the common people and advocating a more equitable distribution of wealth and power.”
Omnes Omnibus
@p.a.: So your intention was to take random swipes at people who are going for the job without having any good alternative? Okay then.
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: And often ending up fucking over minorities…
Jewish Steel
@Morzer:
I could say the same about O’ Malley. He speechifies with a puny little grin permanently affixed to his mug. Comes off like a beauty pageant contestant. He may be the droid everyone’s looking for, but a rock star he is not.
p.a.
My signature on my company email includes the tag “finding the dark cloud in every silver lining since 1959”
The only positive thing I can promise is that I’ll support whoever the Dem nominee is. I look forward to be pleasantly surprised by…someone. In 1975 or ’76, don’t remember exactly, the Allman Bros. were playing my town. I didn’t go because they were donating some of the proceeds to a politician who I thought had no chance to win the Dem. presidential nomination. I had nothing against Jimmy Carter, knew nothing about him. Just didn’t want my money wasted on a hopeless case. (“Instead of giving the money away they should just charge less” I said, when top ticket prices may not even have been $15.)
dance around in your bones
@Amir Khalid: Funny, hah? I know it was one of them, prolly Keith ‘cuz he played the guitar more than Mick.
I’ll try to find a photo of it…..
You know, we sold so much shit to so many people that I don’t remember all of them…..only a few stick out in my mind,There used to be this REALLY wealthy lady who came to our trade shows in Topanga who smelled like shit – literally SHIT – all the time. If you didn’t know who she was, you’d think she was some bag lady or something.
She spent some big fucking bucks. Her chauffeur drover her around.. Seriously stinky lady – we used to hold our breath when she came in, ’cause – – well, she REALLY STUNK!!
eemom
@Morzer:
Fair nuff. I also think it’s fair what someone else said above about him being a dilettante.
Those fairs being said, one could argue that he’s an effective advocate/candidate when he gets fired up about something enough to invest himself in it….that he did that successfully as a Senator and could do it again as a prez candidate.
Once again, I’m not a cheerleader for the guy….just noting such arguments could be made.
Further, the fact that he really does sincerely despise politics and won’t suck up to anyone or anything…..in the utter toxicity of the current environment, that has to be some kind of breath of fresh air.
TriassicSands
Will 2016 bring us Hilary Clinton and a gaggle of other candidates fighting to see who can be the most conservative candidate? Will Webb, the ex-marine, push Clinton to become even more hawkish on defense? Will Webb promise to gut the ACA? Or just “fix” it…by making it unworkable? After all, Mary Landrieu’s strategy to curry favor with the Right by supporting right wing energy policies is working superbly well in Louisiana. Why, she shouldn’t lose my more that fifteen points in the run-off.
Democrats, who are masters at learning the wrong lessons from election outcomes will probably put on quite a show in 2016. Time to stock up on anti-depressants.
Calouste
Webb is 68, America’s gerontocracy in full action.
I wonder if there will be a serious candidate in 2016 who doesn’t already qualify for Social Security.
BillinGlendaleCA
@TriassicSands:
I’m making curry puffs as an appetizer for T-Day. I’ll probably make them on Sunday, if I recover enough from this creeping crud I seemed to have caught.
eemom
@Calouste:
Wow, thanks for that assholish comment to close out my evening.
Bottom line, for any non-ageist-dipshits still awake — Webb is a complicated guy, and nothing about him fits the facile bullshit that passes for political discourse, including here.
Gladgrace
I’m not sure I’m into him (but I’m not a Hillary fan, either). He has some not-stupid things to say about prison reform. Which won’t get him elected, but I would like to hear what he has to say about immigration, defense, etc.
Omnes Omnibus
@Calouste: Who knows in 2014. But thanks for being an asshole.
Mike J
@BillinGlendaleCA: Many Haskell programmers will be busy with all this currying going on.
Calouste
@eemom:
There’s a difference between ageist and wondering whether there will actually be a viable candidate under a certain age. But I guess that is a bit to complex for you and Omnes to grasp.
dance around in your bones
@Calouste:
Way to be totally dismissive and condescending to other people’s comments.
Opinions are like assholes, etc…….
eemom
@Calouste:
Yeah, probly cuz we’re old.
Amir Khalid
@Calouste:
We’ve all seen how Republican enmity has made the Presidency so hard for Obama. It’s entirely legitimate to worry that Jim Webb might not be young enough to take on the burden should he win it in 2016. Many here have the same concern about Hillary, who is about Webb’s age. But blaming a hidden gerontocracy? Not very tactful, or very plausible.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike J: I always preferred APL.
Carolinus
@TriassicSands:
Politicians always learn the only reasonable lesson from unreliable voters, while the Netroots never seems to learn that a “heighten the contradictions” strategy always backfires.
Another Holocene Human
Y’all really had me going the other day, sayin’ that ole Liar in Chief Obama was gonna add more H1B visa slots. Oh guess what, y’all, I went to Vox and it turns out the package includes an expansion of the OPT program.
OPT.
Not H1B.
OPT doesn’t really sound awesome. “Hey grad student slave labor! You can stick around as slave labor for another year or two after you graduate!” I mean, Big Business wants it, that always goes in my suspicion bin.
But really, to get really pissed about OPT, which is just using the talents of the young science/technical folks ya just trained, you’d have to start with the fact that so many STEM undergrads and grad students are from overseaas, and well if you want to untangle that one … it’s complicated … and it’s not ALL driven by bad wages in the US.
Some of it’s our tax laws that have companies seeking tax shelters and paying megabonuses instead of investing in R&D. R&D’s for chumps! Wanna work in R&D, you might have to learn a second language (other than English). That was true when I graduated. Unless it’s medical, then rock on, you shiny diamond. Working conditions suck. My own sister jumped ship to Germany this year after working in Boston for a decade and not to shabby pay. But crummy work conditions.
So NLRB is another thing to fix.
And that’s BEFORE we get to the H1B scam itself that is the bane of so many US born STEM workers.
Hard to really blame South Korean, Chinese, and Indian parents for sending their kids to DA BEST SKOOLS … hard to blame the schools for taking the fucking money, especially state schools.
So there we are.
But if you still wanna curse Obama, go on. Nobody will stop you.
AxelFoley
@srv:
Troll harder, son.
Marc
@eemom:
Just what I’m looking for in a president!
qwerty42
@BillinGlendaleCA: I always preferred APL.
Wasn’t that the one that used the odd keyboard? Back when I did programming, I liked PL/I (for cultists, note “I”, not “1”), but was always a Fortran (oh yeah, in those days it was “FORTRAN”) pgmr at heart. When I was programming by the ton, I switched to SAS. Ah, the old days.
mark
Clinton is “liberal” because she is a woman. all democratic women are shrill liberal feminists to the media
Sherparick
Webb is a complicated guy (read his very good Vietnam War novels). On Foreign Policy (Mideast), NSA/Domestic Police, and bankster issues, a lot of Democrats will find him to Clinton’s left. On race and gender issues, probably on the right. Also, he has a couple of real legislative achievements – New G.I. Bill for the GWOT era veterans and he also got out of the Senate a bill for a commission on reforming criminal sentencing and drug laws with the intent of reducing the prison population. It died with the House, but definitely an A for effort. May have made critical comments about the ACA, but was there when it counted to vote for it, Dodd-Frank, and the Dream Act, the last one is something you can’t say for Tester.
Sherparick
@Morzer: Webb ran as basically the Anti-Iraq War Candidate in 2006 and to help the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan wars who he thought were getting fucked-over. From what I was reading, by 2012 he felt he had gotten what he wanted done in the Senate. He was frustrated his crime reform initiative was just dying in the House due to Republican assholery, increasingly bored with the job, and he disliked fundraising (of course running for President means lots of fundraising). He was favored to win, but knew the Democrats had another strong candidate in Tim Kaine in a Presidential year. And I think he already thought running for President in 2016 might be more fun.
The biggest negatives are his 2d Amendment fetish and I still think he is basically a sexist (had real issues and wrote a lot things in the 80s and 90s about women in the military that will come back to haunt him). But we Democrats need the competition and challengers in the primary. Otherwise, if it is a Hilary coronation the MSM will just make it about Whitewater and Lewinsky and Hilary being an “old hag” all the time. In 2008, the sexism and misogyny was thick, and 2016 will see ageism added on top.
Morzer
@Sherparick:
I think that’s already the case, whether there’s a coronation or not. Given the wretched excuses for journalists that now populate the MSM, I’d be amazed if it were any other way. I also believe you underestimate the negative of Webb’s remarks about affirmative action. That’s not going to fly with a very significant part of the Obama coalition – and might well be the main factor that makes him unviable as a candidate in the primaries.
Matt McIrvin
@Joe Buck: In Massachusetts, the Tea Partiers came out against Warren because of the “fake Indian” attack, in ugly racist ways. I’d guess this would be even more potent in a national campaign.
Morzer
@Matt McIrvin:
Yeah. I know the baggers like to sell themselves as anti-Wall St populists now and again, but that populist sheepskin doesn’t hide the tribalist wolf underneath too effectively.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
Glad somebody threw their hat in. Not a tremendous fan of Webb, not a tremendous fan of Clinton.
Either one of them is better than the entirety of the likely republican primary lineup.
If I had to chose between JUST these two, I’d pick Webb for his stand on the Iraq clusterfuck.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Showing chiefly that those who consider themselves liberal no longer know what the word means. Hillary is an old-school Rockfeller Republican, no more nor less.
Better than Webb, and I look forward to voting for her in 2016. But she’s no liberal.
low-tech cyclist
I think whether Webb is to the right or left of Clinton is the wrong question.
The problem with the Dems is that they are routinely afraid to stand up and be for the things that the Democratic Party practically exists to be for, like standing up for the interests of working people against those of the rich.
Webb has no such fear. That’s the credential I’m looking for.
Calouste
@Amir Khalid: There’s nothing hidden about America’s gerontocracy. The median age in the Senate is 63, in the house it is late 50s. Leadership is older in both cases. 4 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices are over 75. Dubya was the only GOP nominee under 65 in the last 40 years. The whole system, from a two-party system with gerrymandered districts that favors reelecting incumbents via the seniority rules in Congress to lifetime appointments with no retirement age in the judiciary, is not necessarily designed with the target of keeping old people in power, but it definitely has that effect.
Full metal Wingnut
@srv: Dilettante
Full metal Wingnut
@Anne Laurie: Well technically the President doesn’t have the constitutional authority to give any orders to the VP.
Sure, the President can give the VP responsibilities at his/her discretion, but he doesn’t have the power to order the VP to piss on him if he’s on fire.
Full metal Wingnut
@DivF: Another Slick Willy?
Let’s see. NAFTA, AEDPA, DOMA, Gramm-Leach-Bliley.
Yeah, let’s settle for another Bill.
Jinchi
Any poll that asks about a named candidate versus a generic idea of a candidate is worthless. Especially 2 years before an election and just after a recent vote.
Sherparick
Hillary is painted as the last and most notorious member of the Students for a Democratic Society, a Che Guevera follower, and, of course, Alynskite (poor Saul, dead at 65 in 1973 and probably had no idea he would be controlling the country in the first part of the 21s century) by Limbaugh, Hannity, Jones, Beck , Ingraham, Coulter, and the all the other demons that dominate the right-wing media industrial entertainment complex. This free floating idea of Hilary’s as leftist gets funnelled into MSM media dialogue by the usual echo chambers at Politico, Halperin, Scarborough, CNN, Chuck Todd, Stephanopolis (who you would think just from personal experience would know better), MoDo, etc. She is actually the same moderate in politics, slightly enlightened by the sixties, suburban girl from rock rib Republican Park Ridge, Illinois (we went to the same high school, separated by ten years, but shared a couple of teachers a so I admit I have a soft spot for her. Also for Jim Webb. They both put a lot more on line than I ever had, and like TR would say, put themselves into the arena where destroying people is a favorite sport.) Just compare them the atrocious human beings who look like will be running for the Republican nomination and they will look marvelous.
Remember, Glenn Greenwald does not think Congress matters as he plots the destruction of the American Empire by “heightening the contradictions.” Speaking of heightening contradictions, here is our new Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr of North Carolina, via Digby:
“…Here’s your quote ‘o the day from the likely incoming head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, North Carolina’s Richard Burr. His legislative ACLU score on civil liberties is zero, and the zealously pro-CIA-and-NSA Burr once famously declared: “If I had my way, with the exception of nominees, there would never be a public intelligence hearing.” http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2014/11/fighting-over-torture.html
Why bother even having a Senate Intelligence Committee?”
pseudonymous in nc
I always thought Webb had the chance to be a good long-term senator for Virginia, but he didn’t like campaigning and yeah, seemed easily distracted from his work outside of very specific areas of interest. I think he wanted to be a kind of 19th century senator who showed up during sessions and had other jobs besides.
Not many people seek election to the Senate for the sake of being in the Senate these days — though it’s easier for GOPers in deep red states where they have a seniority path laid out for them.
So: file under ‘doing it for shits and giggles’.
Tree With Water
Because she has been a political fixture for a quarter century, Hillary’s responses to most questions can be anticipated with a fair degree of certainty (ballpark-wise). As that’s not the case for Webb, people will listen to him more intently than they would Clinton. I seem to recall him as a formidable enough candidate (his long shot win in Virginia proves that) who, unlike Hillary opposed, unleashing the ongoing War in Iraq.
Calouste
@dance around in your bones: And calling someone an asshole without actually engaging in a discussion is not dismissive and condescending? Or is that just how old people are supposed to behave to youngsters?
dance around in your bones
@Calouste: Oh, fer fuck’s sake.You’ve never heard that expression?
Sondra
@JGabriel:
He won’t develope a populist streak, but she will. On social issues she has been reliably liberal. How she feels about net neutrality, the enviroment, science/tech advances – I’m not sure where she’ll land.
She has certainly had the time to figure out how to appeal to liberals and progressives better than she did the last time.
J R in WV
@qwerty42:
Speled PL/i but pronounced as and known as P L One…
My first programming language that wasn’t keyed into a computer’s registers in hex (or octal at first).
My first semester there were 400 first year students and 4 on-line terminals. Imagine that line! But there was a stack of card punch machines, and the computer room was prepared to accept card decks for projects and assignments.
Plus one of my new study group friends was another non-traditional student – he had a degree in EE and experience working on radar for the USAF and then the FAA, then he got a job working for IBM servicing field equipment, including carfd punch machines.
He decided he wanted to go back to school to learn the software side of the business – so since we needed to do tiny programming exercises, and there was a line out the door for on-line machines, he showed us how to use those ancient card punch machines! No line!
The only small problem was that the ribbon that printed what character you punched on each column was really old, and it was really difficult to read your line of code. Bob, though, knew the code!
So he directly facilitated my education in software development, and helped my working life be a total success! Thanks Bob!!
And again, Pl/I = PL/one when spoken!!!