Let’s hear it for sanity, from a Bloomberg Business interview:
Americans are prepared to accept a U.S. Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said, pointing to what she described as a sweeping change in attitudes toward gays.
In an interview Wednesday in the court’s oak-paneled east conference room, Ginsburg also said President Barack Obama’s health-care law, which is under attack in a case before the Supreme Court next month, will be a central part of his legacy.
The 81-year-old justice discussed the public’s increasing acceptance of gays against the backdrop of resistance by Alabama officials to a federal court order that took effect Monday and made it the 37th gay-marriage state. With the high court set to rule on the issue by June, she said it “would not take a large adjustment” for Americans should the justices say that gay marriage is a constitutional right…
Ginsburg said she met Obama soon after he was elected to the U.S. Senate in 2004. Her son, James, had worked on Obama’s campaign, and Ginsburg asked to be seated next to him when the justices held their traditional dinner for new members of the Senate.
“There was a rapport from the start between us,” said Ginsburg, who receives a hug from the president every year as he walks to the podium to deliver his State of the Union address…
Asked about the president’s legacy, Ginsburg pointed to the Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare, which she voted to uphold in the 2012 case.
“Our country was just about the only Western industrialized country that didn’t have universal health care for all of the people, and he made the first giant step in that direction,” she said. “That’s certainly one of the things he will be remembered for.”…
(Short) video at the link.
My impression: She knows her opera friend Nino Scalia won’t budge, but she’s signalling John Roberts that he doesn’t want to be remembered as “the Roger B. Taney of the 21st century”.
***********
Apart from being grateful for strong women with sane opinions, what’s on the agenda for the evening?
eemom
Wishing immortality for such.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
So I went on an interview yesterday for a job I was pretty sure I didn’t want, and the interview confirmed it. (They seemed nice, but I don’t think I’m what they want.) I let the recruiter know how it went and she said she’s getting ready to send me to one in the department I want to be in. Yay!
TaMara (BHF)
I love her. I wish I knew someone like her when I was younger. I think would have been more fearless in my life choices.
Meanwhile and totally OT: Bixby is 8 months old today and I’ve got photos and an update.
piratedan
its a damn shame that the GOP puppets on the SCOTUS are busy wishing for her demise much like those GOP senators were for the deaths of Byrd and Kennedy during the ACA cloture votes to begin the debates on the legislation. Those guys only see “winning” and damn all everyone harmed in their wake.
Tree With Water
I don’t believe John Roberts gives a rat’s ass how he’ll be remembered. If he cared at all, he wouldn’t shill for the GOP, much less sit on the Supreme Court, much less be chief justice of the court.
Culture of Truth
laying down the law!
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Your recruiter sounds like s/he’s on the job. Hope this works out.
Re RBG, she’s right about marriage equality. It’s time is here.
Bob In Portland
I posted it on an old thread, but here is a bit of propaganda, as Mnem calls it, “from the other side.” Salon.
Also, more propaganda from “the other side”, i.e., the BBC, about the cover story of the Maidan coup coming unravelled.
Violet
Interesting NYT article by Jon Ronson following up on Justine Sacco, the woman who made the ill advised tweet about not getting AIDS because she was white, and it got discovered while she was on a plane to South Africa. He’s followed up on other people who got Twitter-shamed and looked into public shaming in the US. His book about public shaming is going to be published soon I guess.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Violet: Another victim of political correctness.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Good luck! Rooting for you.
mai naem mobile
I don’t have a good feeling about the King lawsuit. I hope I’m wrong. I don’t see Roberts letting down his base being that his wife still works and has to deal with the wingnuts. I think he’ll vote for the gay marriage issue and make up for that by hitting Ocare hard.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Bob In Portland:
I already posted this below, but you didn’t bother to read your own link, did you?
But I know that you, like, totally read between the lines to get the coded message that it was all Nazis! Nazis! Nazis!
SiubhanDuinne
@TaMara (BHF):
There is nothing remotely OT about Bixby photos in anything titled “Happy Thoughts Open Thread.”
(Spelling/typo edit)
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Huh. There’s a comment on the Salon piece written by a “Bob On The Pacific Coast.” You should look him up; he sounds like you two would agree on a lot.
Deecarda
@TaMara (BHF): So handsome! When I responded to your puppy paw photo awhile back, saying it reminded me of my Great Dane Hutch, I didn’t know the paw in the photo was a Dane. Your Bixby looks a lot like my Hutch, he was a black Dane.
Anne Laurie
@Tree With Water:
Impossible to know, unless/until Roberts produces his autobiography. But I get the impression that Roberts is very concerned with his “legacy” — as our beloved SarahP&T put it, he keeps “one eye, soft hands & a buffing cloth on his reputation at all times”. Roberts was elevated over True Believers like Scalia & Thomas because, while he’s every bit as reactionary at heart (Opus Dei), he can’t bear to be perceived as a crusty, unprincipled old bigot. That’s our leverage; we need to keep the pressure up, remind him that the core membership of the Great American Revanchists is shrinking every year, and that if he’s not careful there will be young proto-lawyers being taught he’s a fossil before he’s old & senile enough not to care. Roberts wants to be remembered as a Great Man, not a bad example, or worse as a risible throwback who didn’t have the brains to get out of the way of “history”. (Roger Taney manumitted his own slaves, but balked at any attempts to erode the Constitutional “tradition” that African-Americans were inherently less human than whites. He’s not remembered as a hard-working man with complicated opinions, he’s remembered as the stereotype of a bigoted old jerk whose resistance to change made the Civil War inevitable.)
JPL
@Violet: I read that before I saw Cole’s misunderstanding with tweets. Although, it’s time for all of us to realize how the web works, I wish NYT’s hadn’t printed it. The person moved on.
OT.. I hate to whine but snow might be coming to the Atlanta area on Monday. After last year, I am not going anywhere. It was awful I know our 1-3 inches is nothing but the transportation department just can’t handle it.
OzarkHillbilly
@Tree With Water: You really don’t understand the Id.
Major Major Major Major
@Violet: I liked that article.
Seriously, there are real victims of the Twittersphere ritualistic shaming mob. I remember being totally incredulous during the dongle incident actually.
Pogonip
Bixby’s big feet are always cute!
I am hoping for a pupdate from Cole, as well.
JPL
@mai naem mobile: That’s my thinking and his opinion will say it’s an easy congressional fix. My son’s previous girlfriend told me that Roberts is the one you have to watch because he’s dangerous. She was a lawyer.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@TaMara (BHF): It’s always hilarious when they put themselves in time out. He’s adorable.
Violet
@JPL:
I don’t understand what you’ve written. What Cole’s misunderstanding with tweets? What do you mean?
I think the article discusses her in a good light and puts the spotlight on the issue of public shaming and how the internet mob mentality works and the damage it can cause. It’s a good article. Probably an interesting book.
TaMara (BHF)
@Deecarda: He is my 4th black Dane – not on purpose – they just came that way. Don’t tell him, but he was suppose to be blue.
Violet
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, it’s a good article. I think it’ll be an interesting book. The author, Jon Ronson, wrote “The Psychopath Test,” which is interesting.
Major Major Major Major
@Violet: oh, that guy! I like him.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Violet:
It was especially interesting to see how it goes both ways so quickly — the guy who shamed Sacco posted something stupid himself and ended up on the pointy end of the stick. And with the story of the woman at the tech conference who Twitter-shamed someone and got death threats from MRAs — yikes!
Clearly, saying “it’s all the fault of the PC left” isn’t telling the whole story, by far.
Violet
@TaMara (BHF): Bixby is so big! He looks like an adult dog now. I bet he’s still a bit of a puppy though.
sharl
@Violet: I wish NYT had actually linked to Sam Biddle’s apology post, though I understand why the cutthroat nature of the modern media business does not honor that courtesy, neither at NYT or so many other places.
Regarding Sacco herself, I agree with Rurik Bradbury though:
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
This. Anyone who wants to talk about shutting down open conversation and focuses on PC rather than stuff like GamerGate needs to have his journalist license revoked.
JPL
@Violet: John had a tweet that was obviously a joke. He wasn’t publicly shamed but it does show what happens with social media The next to last paragraph the author of the article about Justine said he wanted to interview her again and she refused.
She paid a heavy price but moved on from it, as she should.
I would not like to see her lose another job because of the article.
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: it really is a both sides do it thing though. You can look at e.g. Brandon Eich, the Mozilla exec who got fired for supporting prop 8. Now, he should have been fired long ago for writing the original javascript spec, so it doesn’t really bother me, but it’s an example.
Jeremy
@mai naem mobile: A lot of people especially on this blog thought the individual mandate and the entire law was doomed in 2012. I doubt Roberts is going to destroy a law that the health care industry supports. The insurance companies didn’t support the ACA from the start but now that they are getting millions of new customers they can live with the new regulations. The majority of the health care industry is supporting the administration in this case and even the US Chamber of Commerce is sitting on the sidelines after supporting the 2012 suit.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@sharl:
In some ways, Sacco’s firing happened as part of a perfect storm. If she had been able to monitor her Twitter account, she probably could have cut the spiral off well before it got to the firing stage by quickly apologizing. It was the fact that the tweet was left hanging out there for half a day without an apology that made it look so bad and did her in.
JPL
@Violet: I think the reason that I related the two was because of the timing that I read the NYTimes article and John’s post. Both tweets were misinterpreted but her’s was just stupid to bring up race. I’m going to point out though that WV appears to have some pretty interesting people that could interpret John’s anyway but as a joke.
Violet
@JPL: I don’t know when or what that tweet was, or I don’t remember it if I saw it originally.
I would hope that any organization that hired her knew her background. How could they not if they did a simple google search? It’s in the past, and she’s making a big effort to stay out of the spotlight and not be the story. I wouldn’t think they’d fire her at this point for something she did before they hired her, which was very public knowledge at that time.
I don’t see how the story can be told without talking about specific incidents. I think it’s important to recognize that there are real people behind the tweets and that real people get hurt. Sometimes it may be deserved and sometimes not. But the mob mentality and public shaming is important to examine. Is this how we want the internet to work? What can/should be done?
Deecarda
@TaMara (BHF): My first Dane, Gretchen, was a fawn, her first & only litter produced 13 pups, 10 survived & thrived on bottle feeding. I kept the two black pups, Starsky & Hutch.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Violet:
I’m guessing that her new employers know exactly who she is and just requested that she stay out of the spotlight if possible. They ask you at job interviews what your biggest mistake was, and she’s got a doozy to talk about and explain what she learned from it.
It also doesn’t help that she was in PR. Everyone hates PR flacks.
the Conster
This is a shout out to my fellow commuting Bostonians who are enduring a shitshow FAIL parade of epic proportions, just to get to work, then home. Every day has become a challenge, but, we’re doing it together. It’s not like we’re trying to get on a plane to go on vacation, or a new TV from Walmart – we’re trying to get to work, then home, and everywhere is a single line – first you go, then I go, then you go, then I go then you go, etc. which is what the thin veneer of civilization requires. It’s ridiculous, but, like the Marathon bombing it’s a testament to the community here in this city. Everything is stretched so thin, and the fact that there hasn’t been more violence may have more to do with the fact that everyone’s bundled up and huddled together than attitude because really, enough is enough, but we’re all practicing patience because there isn’t any choice. There is no “I” in team. At least that’s what I’m telling myself, because we’re going to have a blizzard this weekend. I have never seen so much snow, and I’ve lived in NE my whole life.
sharl
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Yeah, I could see her surviving in that alternative scenario. Done in by privileged thinking/humor and a long flight, she was…
gelfling545
Flora is 3 months old today. She weighs 5 lbs & is a fuzzy ball of energy. I’ll be pleased when we can take her outside & let her get a bit more activity, not to mention potty training, but 3 degrees is way to cold for such a tiny pup.
TaMara (BHF)
@the Conster: I cannot believe how much snow you guys are getting. Feeling for my old home city. I love the people there – always there with a helping hand, so not surprised by your musings.
Jeremy
Also if it’s so certain that the Supreme Court is going to rule against the administration wouldn’t you think the Obama administration would show some concern or prepare contingency plans. So far we haven’t seen any reaction from the WH.
TaMara (BHF)
@gelfling545: That melted my heart. Aaaaww. Now if MomSense gives us an update, it’ll be a puppeh trifecta.
Baud
@Jeremy:
Not really. The rule is to always project confidence.
Anne Laurie
@the Conster: HAPPY THOUGHTS DAMMIT!!!…
At least today’s snow mostly fell out on the ocean. And the next blizzard will ruin some Valentines plans, but if it ends on Sunday, Monday is a holiday for at least some commuters/students so there should be less traffic & more time for the National Guard to fill the snow melters.
Citizen_X
@Major Major Major Major:
But wasn’t that for being a major funder of Prop. 8? IOW, an action, and a completely different category from making an inappropriate joke or remark.
I’m not arguing that that was the right outcome, but that it should be considered separately.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@JPL:
The heavy price was, in my view, an appropriate one. She demonstrated he complete incompetence in communications with her travel tweets. Of course, if she were a public face of any company, I’d have personally fired her had I that power within said company. But as a communications professional it was a misstep that highlighted her unsuitability for her field.
Just Some Fuckhead
Maybe. But then on the other hand, we’re still dealing with rightwing terrorism in regards to civil rights for black folks and abortion rights.
Deecarda
@the Conster: The doctor I work with is flying to Boston in the morning from NC, I’ve been teasing him all day, picked a helluva time to visit his son.
kindness
RBG is my Hero.
BJ should make coffee mugs (nice big latte mugs would be nice) that say that (and the Balloon-Juice Tunch on the other side of course).
Haven’t you seen the Elizabeth Warren mugs Wonkette is selling?
Anne Laurie
@gelfling545: Flora is adorable!
(Be warned though, some dogs can be very conservative about their potty training… I knew a ‘paper trained’ Sheltie whose people spent fifteen years taking a newspaper on their walks, because Lyric would only poop on paper, be she never so desperate. That was in the days when I had my first dog, who’d been trained to go outside & would not ever use a piddle pad, no matter how lousy the weather… )
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Yes, you quoted a NAZI!!!! Ha ha ha!!! So that’s your side? Ha ha ha!!!
If I’m not mistaken, your source of information (Parubiy) was fighting with the Chechen rebels back in the days when they were killing schoolchildren and blowing up subways. You really are pathetic, Mnem. You are quoting NAZIS!!! Aren’t you embarrassed that you didn’t know you were quoting a Nazi, or are you proud that you were quoting a Nazi and knew he was a NAZI? You know what Social-Nationalist means? How about the Fatherland Party? His old buddy Oleh Tyahnybok is good for a lot of interesting quotes too. I know you can find pictures of John McCain and Tyahnybok hugging, but I’m not sure about Paribuy. I think most American politicians still aren’t ready to get their photos taken with Nazis.
But good luck on the job front.
JPL
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I agree. Although the NYTimes is about public shaming, she will become shamed again because of the article. I had never heard of her. Maybe ten years from now they can do another article about public shaming and bring it up again. Who is doing the shaming at this point.
the Conster
@TaMara (BHF):
The only ground is patches of sidewalk and the middle of well-travelled roads. There is no just walking. Everything else has disappeared into white mounds. Everyone’s story is everyone else’s story – no one who lives here is unaffected, so this is who we all are now – we are all the same – cooped up inside while outside is a featureless white world. It’s exceedingly strange and in a way it feels both intimate and epic.
Jeremy
@Baud: True, but we saw some concern about a potential adverse ruling in 2012.
the Conster
@efgoldman:
Yes, that’s definitely true – most likely parents killing their kids. My cat, who is an outdoor cat is driving me cray cray, so I can see how it could all go down in a bad way, especially since next week is school vacation week. I’ll keep my fingers crossed, because really, I can understand how it could all go pear shaped soon. It’s too much to ask.
Anne Laurie
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Haven’t read the Ronson article yet (I will, because I really like his writing), but IIRC in the Gawker article, Sacco said she’d meant the “only Black people get AIDS” line sarcastically.
That’s why I don’t join Twitter — no room to inflect one’s sarcasm.
And losing one’s job over a misfired tweet is indeed the definition of #firstworldproblems, but IMO the #ragegasm over Sacco’s tweet is a sterling example of misusing “social justice”. Mobbing the miscreant-of-the-day, just to demonstrate for the record that one is Pro Social Justice, is not an inspirational tactic for the history books.
gbear
Tonight’s happy activity for me:
Is it bad of me to have taken great pleasure in reading the one star reviews of Bob Dylan’s album of Frank Sinatra cover versions on Amazon.com? I just don’t understand all of the critics falling all over themselves to praise this trainwreck. Bob can do whatever he wants at this point, but that doesn’t mean that anyone has to take it seriously.
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: What did you think of the article?
All for the neoliberal takeover of Ukraine?
satby
I have promising news on Maggie dog. The home vet came today because I wanted Maggie to be home if the decision was to euthanize, but Maggie had gotten up in the night, drank a measurable amount of water on her own, and had even had a tiny morsel of food. So she is now on different medications and she improved enough to eat small mouthfuls of food 3 times today. She’s still not drinking water when I am around because I’m the sneak that puts medicine in it, but she will drink from the syringe when I insist.
Thanks to all of you for your kind thoughts for her. Fingers crossed she improves.
raven
@satby: Hang tough Maggie.
Pogonip
@efgoldman: We’re not expecting much more snow but it’s going to get down below zero over the weekend. I have nowhere to go (unless the furnace conks out) and, likewise, father and son are at his house and have nowhere to go either. They plan to spend the weekend watching Batman. I suggested they start with Mr. Freeze.
Xboxershorts
@the Conster:
I’m in Lexington this week for work. Drove up from North central PA (Potter county) on Sunday and the drive was so bad (Albany to Lexington in 4.5 hours, slip slidin all the way) I went straight to the bar and ordered a double. Then another.
Actually, for a region that doesn’t get snow like this all that often (I grew up in Rochester, NY, lived in Buffalo for a while too), you’re handling it quite well. And yes, lots of..you go, then me, then you, then me is going on with all the roads and people are being quite understanding.
I’ve given many a hat tip to the locals here and laughed at them calling it …just a dusting!
More coming on Saturday, batten down the hatches man.
Pogonip
@satby: Yippee! Praying she continues to improve.
Anne Laurie
@gbear: Wait till next year’s Grammys — imagine the sulking about whether Master Dylan is/isn’t nominated for all the proper categories, and the #twitstorms when he does/doesn’t win every award anyways! Maybe somebody can convince Tony Bennett to storm the stage & tell Bob he’s “stealing” Lady GaGa’s award…
(P.S. Good to ‘see’ you here, was wondering that I hadn’t read any comments from you in a while.)
Hal
I saw a post a few days ago from an old born again friend regarding Netanyahu’s visit, and how the US must support Israel because it’s in the bible. I’m guessing “supporting Israel” means anything Netanyahu wants to do is completely ok and any criticism means you are anti-semitic etc.
But one thing I have never understood is how Evangelicals reconcile the whole support Israel under any circumstances with the whole “you all are going to burn in hell because your Jewish” belief they have going. Why care so much about Jewish people if in the end you think they are going to hell?
JPL
@efgoldman: A little over a year ago, I had jury duty in Atlanta. They dismissed us at 11:30 and I took the train which was ten miles from my house. I got home at 6:30 only because I didn’t get on the highway. I am pretty sure, that the last big hill that I had to go up was closed after me. There were cars all over the road and I just focused on changing lanes. As bad as I feel for you guys, the idea that we might get one to three inches of snow on Monday panics me. The neighbor who was suppose to get home at two to let my dog out got home after me. He husband got home at four in the morning. The south and snow sucks.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@gelfling545:
Adorable! One of my coworkers swears by the Porch Potty they got for their small dog, if UPS can dig their way to you:
http://www.porchpotty.com
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I imagine this will make the six months permanent
I don’t much care about Wiliams, but this is just a weird spectacle. And it does say a lot about quasi-militarization of the media, the desire to be some make-believe latter-day Ernie Pyle.
Amir Khalid
@efgoldman:
That he does. He’s been berating me for refusing to jump to the same conclusions as he has regarding the “delay” in producing an investigation report on MH17. I should totally agree, because I’m Malaysian, that the Netherlands is helping its NATO ally the US cover up the Ukraine’s involvement in the shootdown; I don’t, so I’m a dupe for Western propaganda.
But I tend to believe he’s a sincere kook rather than a troll.
Baud
@Hal:
Yeah, when was the last time anyone on the right ever felt the need to “reconcile” anything?
Pogonip
@efgoldman: Why NOT dump it into the hahbah? Snow is made of water and it can’t be that polluted.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I thought Brian Williams killed Osama bin Ladin.
gbear
@Anne Laurie:
I’m afraid I’ve been more of a lurker lately but I’m still reading. It’s been odd reading about everyone’s snowstorms when we barely have any snow on the ground in MN. I bought a snowblower at the beginning of this winter and I haven’t even put gas in the tank yet.
As for the Dylan album, I think that by mid-year everyone is going to try to pretend it never happend.
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: No, I am, unfortunately, back. Although “away” was up in the Adirondacks, where it was colder, although less snowy.
I don’t really mind the cold, although a respite would be nice.
aimai
@Violet: Very interesting. I think people online need to be very careful and realize that although their individual comments might seem funny, or harmless, the totality of everyone’s comments vis a vis a single person is like a tsunami, crushing the life out of people who (whatever they have done) really don’t deserve this destruction.
Pogonip
I found the old Salon article; “Ellen, the Dog Bullies, and Me.”. Google that and it’ll pop right up.
If Cole’s rescue is like the ones in the article, the Gilligan’s Island family will be entertaining us for years to come, because no one will be able to adopt any of them.
BruceFromOhio
If only a sweeping change in attitudes toward decent health care had the same effect.
Hats off to RBG, girlfriend rocks. da. house. Make them know it, Justice Ginsburg!
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: I am in favor of Ukrainians deciding their own destiny, within secure and internationally recognized borders, as most other countries have the ability to do.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
oh fercrissake can somebody just ban it in the name of bad manners and felony thread litter?
Peale
Feeling a cold coming on. Fortunately Food & Wine published a list of whiskey drinks that may cure a cold. I am feeling cured.
satby
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: yeah, make it stop, for the love of FSM
Amir Khalid
@Pogonip:
If the snow were just water, I suppose that would make sense. But snow that falls on Boston picks up whatever’s lying on the ground there: oil and grease and other substances that leak from cars and trucks, random bits of bird and other animal poop, ciggy butts, water soluble pollutants, und so weiter.
BruceFromOhio
@the Conster: All of the people I deal with in NE have been relentlessly “we’ll get through this.” Except the one guy who bailed for St Thomas on vacation. He’s laughing his ass off right now.
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Funny, I thought the money quote Mnemosyne was pointing out to you was the BBC author’s: “Neither side offers convincing evidence for its assertion.”
Incidentally, How’d Svoboda do in the last election? How about Pravy Sektor?
Anne Laurie
@Pogonip:
Hah, you do not appreciate New England’s toxic climate! Seriously, we’re not Sherlock Holmes’ London, but the snow collects measurable contamination even before it hits the ground, and our ground is foul. There’s road oil, gasoline, street filth, dog (& other animal) waste, cigarette butts, all the bits & ends of trash that haven’t been cleaned away in weeks because they’re embedded in the drifts. Boston’s a little protective about no longer being the Dirty Water namesake town — it cost millions & years to clean up the harbor & we’d rather not spoil it again.
There are jokes being made, though, about how Walsh will have to agree to throw snow into the harbor before despairing voters start throwing themselves in.
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: Hate to break it to you, but you were fed a lot of lies by the neoliberals. You are witnessing the destruction of Ukraine by the US, like the destruction of so many other countries.
Poroshenko is on borrowed time. Next step is full-on fascism. When does martial law start? Next week?
Pogonip
@Amir Khalid: True, but doesn’t a lot of that stuff end up in the hahbah anyway?
JPL
@efgoldman: Dallas handles it better. When we moved from Dallas to Atlanta, I was amazed that they didn’t have a plan. The problem with the Atlanta area is that it is hilly. You don’t realize it unless you bike or run, or there is a storm. We have stoppers on the hills and it creates havoc. The first sign of a skid and they stop. Imagine going up a hill and seeing brake lights. It’s not a good thing.
It’s much hillier than New England.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
So because Parubiy was quoted as saying he didn’t shoot at protesters, that totally proves beyond a doubt that he’s guilty of doing it because Nazis?
Are you sure you didn’t have a permanent brain injury you forgot to tell us about? You didn’t play for the NFL or something, right?
Xboxershorts
@efgoldman:
gbear
@Bob In Portland: I’ll bet you’re fun at parties.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@gelfling545: Flora is adorable.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: I believe it takes more than kookitude to be so emotionally invested in the fate of a country one has never set foot in and none of whose citizens one has ever met, and to wish so openly for its political and economic failure. It is as if I were to post lengthy and marginally unhinged screeds in every unrelated thread here about the coup in Thailand.
Pogonip
@Amir Khalid: Me too, but he’s a boring sincere kook.
the Conster
@Amir Khalid:
Yup.. The hahbah heah has been cleaned up enough to swim in hence the restrictions about dumping, but, local municipalities have been given the all cleah to dump in it, so next summah we’ll all be swimming in dunkin donut cups, cigarette butts and Patriots confetti from the parade.
Bob In Portland
@efgoldman: Which article did you take offense to? Is quoting “the other side” such as Salon, the BBC and Wikipedia iworthy of what you deem as Russian propaganda? Really?
Very interesting. You generally don’t come off sounding so stupid, but that’s what you risk when you don’t follow the links for such hotbeds of Putin Love. Bet you didn’t read the articles either. You support neoliberalism? You support fascism? You support false flags? Then keep that little mind of yours closed, asshole.
Xboxershorts
@gbear:
I’ll take that bet…
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: When does martial law start? Next week?
I don’t know. When do the “DNR” and “LNR” abide by the agreements they’ve signed?
Pogonip
@gbear: Only at parties where no one speaks English.
BruceFromOhio
Not having a Twatter account. Ever. For any reason. And not reading other people’s Twattle, because so much of it is, apparently, relentlessly fucking stupid. And it has a business model. With profit projections. And investors. No wonder the Russian hackers can fuck us over so easily, we’re collectively dumb as a box of rocks..
Oh shit. It’s a happy thoughts open thread. Ummm…. okay, HAPPY THOUGHTS
chopper
the only thing worse than nazis are hodor nazis.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@chopper: what about Illinois Nazis?
Anne Laurie
@Pogonip:
There are massive, world-class filtration systems designed to prevent that from happening. And equally state-of-the-art monitoring instruments designed to keep track of “overflow” after torrential rainstorms & winter blizzards.
One advantage to living in this corner of New England — we’ve had four hundred years to realize that “throwing it away” isn’t a permanent solution to garbage disposal, and plenty of smart people with money to work on better alternatives.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Parubiy is a Nazi. I presume you’re not going to argue that point, are you?
So the question is whether the report of the article, that the Maidan Massacre was a false flag, is believable or not. You choose to believe the denial of the Nazi.
Now, it used to be that American liberals wouldn’t embrace Nazis or Nazism, but you seem to. Either you’re very stupid or you really dig those fascists. There’s an easy way to correct ignorance, but you stated yesterday that the world is black and white and it’s us or them, and “us” includes Paribuy. Well, you painted yourself into your own corner. I suggested you, eh, expand your base of knowledge. It’s never too late. Back away, pick up a book, and read.
Mike in NC
@the Conster: About 25 years ago I joined a small group to go scuba diving for lobster in Boston Harbor. Oh the things I saw floating in the water, including raw sewage! Found no lobster and declined to repeat that experience.
dexwood
I am equally grateful for sane women with strong opinions.
Bob In Portland
@efgoldman: Didn’t follow the links, did you, asshole? Take pride in your ignorance.
BruceFromOhio
@chopper: Northern Ohio nazis with no sense of rhythm.
Small Inner Voice: what about guns?
Me: Don’t matter, everybody’s got Gaia-damned guns. Not a factor.
the Conster
@Mike in NC:
We’ve been dumping shit in the hahbah for 350 years. If you want to dive for lobstahs, go to Cape Ann.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
Er, no, that’s not the report of the article. The report of the article is that an anonymous guy has come forward to say he was given a gun to shoot at security forces during the Maidan protests, but he doesn’t know who was behind it and has not identified who it was that gave him the gun. You immediately jumped to the conclusion — unsupported by the article — that is must have been Ukrainian Nazis supported by the CIA, because that is the one and only conclusion you ever reach about Ukraine, no matter what it is you read.
The article itself actually says that there isn’t any evidence either way about who was responsible, but you filled it right in with your own obsession.
Xboxershorts
@Bob In Portland:
I did. Lots of speculation, finger pointing, nothing verifiable.
You’re not convincing a lot of people. Especially with the name calling.
Look, be open to the idea that people will say whatever they feel they need to say to advance their preferred agenda.
Grain of salt and all that.
Dave C
@the Conster:
Not a Bostonian, but I was in the area this week to interview for a PhD program at Harvard. Man, the amount of snow you have been getting is ridiculous. I hear that you will soon be getting more. My condolences!
mai naem mobile
@Hal: i don’t remember the whole story but it has to do with Revelations and for Jesus or God to take all the good people and leave all the bad people,the Jews have to be killed in Israel or be in Israel. Apparently the Israelis also have to reconcile with the Born Agains wanting them dead. Stoopid religion sheet.
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: You promise no more shelling of civilians?
Look, Poroshenko has to go back to war eventually. The US wants him to. Demands it. So maybe after this regime or after the fascists take full control of Kiev and fail, then there’ll be someone for what’s left of Ukraine to sit down and negotiate a federation. Do you actually think that the east will want to be a part of the mess that is in Kiev now?
You never said if you agreed with the Salon article. Do you support the neoliberal moves in Ukraine? Gee, there were a few other questions you never answered too.
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
You must be terribly disappinted by the ceasefire, Bobby. Looks like Comrade Nipple-rings won’t get to play the victim of his own fascist thuggery.
As for Patrick L. Smith, he’s a whining little Putinista (a Putinputain?) who has been writing the same, idiotic column forever about how he was right and the rest of the world was wrong.
Bob In Portland
@Xboxershorts: So you don’t think the neoliberals are behind what’s happening in Ukraine and Greece? How about what’s been happening in the Middle East? All down with that?
Or is it that you don’t mind the spread of neoliberalism around the world, just not here in the ol’ US? Your brief post indicates that you haven’t absorbed much of either article.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Morzer:
As far as I can tell, the only one who actually wants a full-out war in Ukraine is Bob. Germany doesn’t want it. The US doesn’t want it. Even Russia doesn’t want it — they were hoping for those eastern provinces to break off without getting their hair mussed.
Also, Bob, I will make you a bet on something you said a few days ago. I absolutely, 100 percent guaran-damn-tee you that the Obama administration will NOT drop a tactical nuke in Ukraine. Ever.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Life is short, Bob. I have other things to do. I just always get a real kick out of *you* telling *me* DA TROOF!! about Ukraine. It’s been 14 months, roughly, since the beginning of the Maidan protests. How much time have you spent in Ukraine in the last 14 months?
the Conster
@Dave C:
This is why the Marathon is such an important and defining community event – if it’s decent weather at all, it’s the first time we all get out to connect with each other after the hellacious winter. The bombing was personal to every single person who lives here, and it’s hard to convey that to out of towners. It happened to US – all of us. I’m not exaggerating at all. It’s the best thing we do.
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: I’ve got a co-worker who does that pretty regularly.
BruceFromOhio
@Anne Laurie: Re: throwing things away, I’d make a tea party joke at this, but you’ve probably heard them all.
Dave C
@the Conster:
Very cool. As a runner myself, I at least am somewhat familiar with the community-filled, joyous event that is a marathon (though I’ve only run one and that was in SoCal, so the dynamic is obviously different), so I can kind of get what you’re saying. Hopefully this year’s marathon will go off without a hitch!
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Let us take this step by step. The BBC article suggests another possibility than the official western story, that the Maidan Massacre was a false flag. You’d know this if you had a, eh, wider range of reading.
Do you have any knowledge of how propaganda works? What happens when the story won’t hold? Modified limited hangouts. You must not have been around for Nixon, right?
Meanwhile, there is the story in Salon, which, while touching on Ukraine is mostly focused on neoliberals. Are you for neoliberals? Are you against neoliberals?
And finally, once again, is Parubiy a Nazi or not? Parubiy, a former member of the current government. Nazi or not? Do you believe Parubiy? What do you find trustworthy about his account?
Morzer
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
You can get anything you want at Bobitty’s Restaurant….
Provided you order the Ukrainians Are Fascists entree, that is.
As for the idea that Obama would even consider using tactical nukes in the Ukraine, that’s simply madness born of Comrade Romanov’s twisted wishful thinking. He’d rather see a slaughter than admit that he’s a sad little conspiracy theorist with a massive ignorance of Russian reality.
Morzer
@Gin & Tonic:
I think we are entering the domain of imaginary numbers here. Hell, how much time has Bobby spent in reality during that period?
Xboxershorts
@Bob In Portland:
The Neoliberals (Neocons actually) are behind the rise of a Greek political party ready to tell the banker class to fuck off?
I don’t think so.
It’s the Neocons that are working overtime trying to enforce austerity on Greece.
Dude, need I remind you of the police in Montreal being caught on camera with infiltrators in the crowd throwing rocks and bricks at their own trying to ….INCITE the violence?
It’s the powers that be, the Neocons you decry so looudly, who’ve held power for the last 40 years in major nations across the northern hemisphere who are losing their grip. And I would be more inclined to suspect THEM of being atop the Conservatory at Kiev.
In fact, I’m starting to believe YOU are a plant.
Bob In Portland
@Morzer: Smith is a former bureau chief of the International Herald Tribune.
You’re one of the lesser BJers here who seem to immediately go to the sexual insult button when a topic troubles you. You are pathetic. You certainly aren’t a liberal. What are you? Have you taken a stand on yoga pants? Morzer, did you understand what Smith wrote? Bet you can’t even give us a summary of the article.
BruceFromOhio
@Bob In Portland: You choose to believe the denial of the Nazi.
You should have some forthright discussion with your dealer, and your barista. Based on your litanies of the late, they are totally fucking with you, and may even be in cahoots. Check your insurance policy for hacked beneficiaries.
For the rest of you nazi-loving subhumans who can’t handle greatness in your midst, or your comment threads, cleek is a magician. Go be magicked.
Valdivia
OT and not happy news
per twitter and a NYT columnist apparently David Carr passed away today. What a horrid week for journalism.
Elmo
I lived in snow country for almost 10 years – 8000 feet up in the high Sierra. The years I lived there included some of the snowiest on record. One February it snowed nearly every day, six to ten inches at a time, so we ended the month with 14 feet of snow. Just in the month of February.
I lived in a two-story house with an above-grade basement. My bedroom was on the top floor. For much of the year I could go in and out the house through my bedroom window.
Major Major Major Major
You people are insane.
That was directed at BiP, and anybody who lives in Boston.
Pogonip
@the Conster: No lobstahs in Boston Hahbah, what a shame.
Hal
@Valdivia: Wow! He was just on NPR and Maddow talking about Brian Williams. He sounded sick to me on both shows but I figured he had a cold. He was only 58. Sucks.
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
Dudebro, you’ve decided to bring yoga pants into your conspiracy theory? Seriously?
I’ve read and laughed at multiple articles by Patrick L.Smith for the same reason that I laugh at you – it’s the only sane response to cranks with a nonsensical conspiracy theory to peddle. It’s obvious you are impervious to facts, reason and sanity, although there’s a minimal chance that you might someday wonder why none of your predictions have panned out, once you begin to ask why everyone laughs at you.
How are those Russian classes going? Have you learned how to say “The propaganda of my big brother is bigger than the garden of your White House” yet?
Valdivia
@Hal: I am in shock. I just read his commentary on the Williams thing this morning. Just awful.
Mike J
@Anne Laurie: Not only does Boston have filters, they have trucks. Truck day!
(Seattle’s truck day was two days ago, but I’m part of the Red Sox diaspora. I cheer for the Mariners against everybody but the Sox though.)
Botsplainer
Judging by Bob in Brighton Beach’s peramblings, he’s gotten hold of some bad Pertsovka and it’s gone hallucinogenic.
Morzer
@efgoldman:
Of course, I only sacrifice ethnically Russian puppies. I buy them from Ukrainian Fascist Ritual Supplies on Boylston St. They also do a lovely bare-chested wax Putin doll on horseback. It’s always wild times here at the Neoliberal Yoga Pants Arcanum, I can tell you.
Bob In Portland
@Xboxershorts: Of course the neoliberals are in fact conservative. Smith gives a nice summary. Go back and read it again.
Of course, Montreal police threw rocks. A false flag. I lived through the sixties and many an anti-war demonstration. The powers that be infiltrated student peace groups all the time. Read Carl Oglesby’s “Ravens In The Storm.” And yes, they were the ones who’d throw the rocks.
So in the BBC article we get a guy who says he was assigned to shoot at the police in Maidan. And then we have Parubiy, who says that it didn’t happen. I’ve linked to a few wikipedia articles about him and his political organizations. Nazi or democratic freedom fighter?
Now let’s unspool back to The Nation interview with Russ Bellant. Let’s look at the quotes of Vicky Nuland and the US ambassador.
That’s what I’m talking about. Do you understand now?
Mike in NC
@the Conster: Newport was a whole lot better. We were giving the things away.
gelfling545
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): when we brought her home last month she seemed quite amenable to going outside but then we started getting the single digit temps and the poor thing would just stand there & shiver. She’s pretty good using the pee pads and we’re down to just a couple rather than the blanket coverage we needed before. If she goes stubborn about it on me when we can get outside I will look into the porch potty. Thanks for the link. I had never heard of it.
Bob In Portland
@Botsplainer: Which article did you have a problem with? The Putinista article in Salon? Or the one in the BBC that features Mnem’s friend Parubiy?
Or maybe you just didn’t read either one. Be proud of your ignorance.
Bob In Portland
@Morzer: What threatens you more, meathead? Putin or gays?
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Let’s unspool back to The Nation’s publisher’s husband’s half-century of parroting Moscow’s propaganda at every turn. The USSR/RF have had no more loyal and long-standing friend in American academia.
Morzer
@efgoldman:
Carl Fischer was his cover name, but once you get to know him, you can call him Reinhard. Know what I mean?
Mike in NC
@efgoldman: My little brother in Braintree at least has a snowblower, which my dad would never have springed for.
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
Definitely gay Putins. Yes, that’s the thing that terrifies me when I wake up here in my little bunk in Sonderkommando von Kaffeeklatsch.
AkaDad
As a Massachusetts resident, or Masshole if you prefer, I’ve come to the conclusion that when I do die, it will be while I’m shoveling snow.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
The question you seem unable to ask yourself, Bob, is whose false flag was it? Obviously, your only possible answer is Nazis, because your answer for everything is Nazis, but can you honestly say that the then-president of Ukraine had absolutely no motive to try and discredit the protesters who were embarrassing him? He would have had no reason at all to try and claim the Maidan protesters had turned into violent thugs who he needed to repress? No one else in the entire situation had any reason to want to disrupt the protests?
I admit, I find you fascinating because you’re such a pure example of what I’ve realized about conspiracy theorists: you want to believe that accidents and mistakes don’t exist and everything that happens must have been planned. You may not like that the CIA controls everything, but you find it comforting that someone is controlling that big scary world out there.
Me, I’ve had to deal with enough fatal accidents, mistakes, and illnesses in my life to know that no one is in charge. Shit happens. And it’s far more plausible to me that some poorly-trained separatists got trigger-happy with their new toy and accidentally shot down a plane than that it was all a nefarious plan by Ukrainian Nazis to do … something.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
Pariubiy didn’t say it didn’t happen. He said the Russians were responsible.
Morzer
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Hanlon’s Razor seems applicable here.
Bob In Portland
@efgoldman: No, we’re not all fucking Nazis. Is Parubiy a Nazi? Real easy question. Is Parubiy a Nazi? Yes or no? Or is he a leaner?
No, the reason why you don’t answer the question is that you finally figured out what I’m talking about and you’re embarrassed as shit to be on the side of the Nazis.
Is Parubiy a Nazi? Morzer is just a poor boy who worries about nipple rings. He’s stupid, he’s a Good American, as in Good German, but he’s not a Nazi.
Is Parubiy a Nazi? Simple question, even for simple minds. Is Parubiy a Nazi?
No, you can’t answer that because you’d admit that there is something to what I’ve been saying. Well, maybe the courage will come to you one day.
Is Parubiy a Nazi? And once you finally answer that then is he the only Nazi in Ukrainian politics? Come on, asshole. Show some courage. Is Parubiy a Nazi?
Xboxershorts
@Bob In Portland: Do you think I’m 20 something?
Stop assuming.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
Here’s the problem, Bob — even if, as you claim, Pariubiy is a Nazi, that doesn’t actually prove anything about any of your other claims. Not one.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): The question you can’t seem to answer was the one I asked you about the guy who quoted, Parubiy. Nazi or is Bob in Portland just exaggerating again? Nazi? Not Nazi?
But, sure, let’s talk about false flags. How has the shootdown of MH17 benefited the rebels and Russia?
Who benefited from the Maidan Massacre?
Who benefited from 9/11? Who benefited from the Gulf of Tonkin incident? Who benefited from the medical students in danger in Grenada?
Something happens. You react. You’re steered down a chute, like cattle to the slaughter. It works pretty much all the time.
So who benefited from Maidan? Try to be honest now.
Oh, and if you are not afraid to admit it, answer the Parubiy question: Nazi or not?
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
Just some of you, eh? All those adorable skinheads in the Arbat who model the latest bare-chested hetero-Russian designs with hooked crosses.
the Conster
@AkaDad:
LOL. With your Bean Boots on?
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
Here, again, Bob is where you expose your conspiracy-ridden heart — you assume that whichever group benefited from the Maidan massacre must have planned it that way, because accidents, mistakes, and miscalculations don’t exist. In your world, it’s impossible for one group to benefit from or exploit another group’s mistake. Every plan is always executed perfectly and any result is always the exact result that was intended.
Botsplainer
@Bob In Portland:
You’re wordy and over link. You lose me after a paragraph, cucumber breath
Morzer
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Bob’s argument is the geopolitical equivalent of arguing that because Mark Sanchez threw interceptions by the bucket-load in his time as a starter, Bill Belichick arranged for the Jets to draft him.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): No, I’m not claiming that Parubiy is a Nazi. Parubiy is claiming that Parubiy is a Nazi. That is your problem. So is Parubiy a Nazi? We’ll take this one step at a time.
You say that I see everyone as a Nazi. I see Parubiy. You see him. What is he, Mnem, or don’t you have the ability to answer truthfully?
One step at a time. Think about it. Here you are quoting Parubiy and claiming all I see are Nazis. Now the Deputy Speaker of Parliament, this Parubiy guy. You didn’t see him as a Nazi. The BBC didn’t identify him as a Nazi either. Are you beginning to see your problem? That’s why you quote a Nazi, because you’re ignorant. I’ve told you how to wise up. I’ve posted Parubiy’s resume farther up the thread.
Come on, Mnem, just say it. Say, well, Parubiy may be a Nazi but I’m still on his side. Go ahead. It’s just a matter of time before you say it. In the meantime get those boots polished.
Morzer
@Botsplainer:
Cucumber breath? Man, you really scorched his blinis!
I’ll have to arrange for you to be part of our Ukrainian Fascist Supporters Yoga Group.
Bob In Portland
@Morzer: Morzer, no I said that because of Parubiy’s resume, when Mnem says Parubiy denies it and all I see are Nazis, it is a knee-slapping display of complete ignorance and idiocy. Sorry, she beats your nipple rings. Do you rub yourself when you post?
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
You see, you don’t get the basic point here, Bobby. You think you’ve identified one Ukrainian Nazi and so you jump to the idea that all Ukrainians are Nazis. LOGIC – learn it and use it, you should.
That, of course, is before we deal with your “credentials” as a person capable of credibly identifying Nazis.
Bob In Portland
@Botsplainer: I know. Lots of words are confusing to you. Okay, that’s your excuse.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
Oksana Syroyid Is the deputy speaker of parliament in Ukraine. Google is your friend.
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/first-woman-as-deputy-speaker-hopes-to-make-parliament-more-transparen-374883.html
You’re not getting people with similar names mixed up again, are you?
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
You should see what the unfriendly critics are saying about your autobiography.
AkaDad
BTW, the forecast for Saturday through Sunday in the Boston area is another 12-18 inches.
*sigh*
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
So, again, Parubiy’s resume is proof positive that he conspired to shoot security forces during the Maidan protests? There are no other possible suspects, because Parubiy’s resume proves he’s guilty?
Bob In Portland
@Morzer: I think I identified a Ukrainian Nazi? Or did Mnem not identify a Ukrainian Nazi when accusing me of seeing Nazis. No, not all Ukrainians are Nazis. In fact, the Novorussians are fighting the Nazis and they’re Ukrainian.
Come on, Nipple Rings, are you admitting that the Deputy Speaker of the Parliament is a Nazi? Since he is better known in Ukraine than here in the US, who do you think chose him as Deputy Speaker? The freedom-loving not-Nazis?
So maybe you don’t get it, Nipple Rings. Let’s see if you can identify a Nazi.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): No, it’s only proof positive that he’s a Nazi, was not identified in the BBC as such, and you believed him. That’s all it proves.
Time for you to read the Salon article. Go ahead. You can do it. Patrick Smith, a former editor for that pinko rag the International Herald Tribune.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
If you have proof that Oksana Syroyid — the ACTUAL deputy speaker — is a Nazi, I would like to see it, though I’m not sure why you’re suddenly changing the subject away from Parubiy.
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
Well, I think I can identify a loud-mouthed, ignorant, aggressive boor who makes hateful generalizations about other peoples based on his own poisonous fantasies and rabid devotion to a male leader figure who whips up hatred against gays and lesbians to gratify his supporters.
You’ll meet him the next time you brush your teeth.
Xboxershorts
@Bob In Portland:
Now I’m convinced he’s a plant.
Bob…you are the one being played.
Omnes Omnibus
BiP seems a bit over-caffeinated this evening.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
“I believed him” what? The article is silent on his Nazi status. He said nothing in the article one way or another about being a Nazi. What did I “believe” him about since the article had nothing to do with whether or not he’s a Nazi?
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh come on. Many reasonable people have connected yoga pants and Nazis. I mean You Know Who was a downward-facing dog lover, which is absolutely iron-clad proof!
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): You know, you don’t like to answer any questions. You brought up false flags and then when I ask you something you about them you get mighty quiet.
You understand the purpose of a false flag, right? You do something and blame it on someone else. You live in the United States and don’t understand that? How do you think we keep getting into wars? Maybe you don’t understand false flags.
So either it was a false flag by the coup plotters or it was just something that happened, a bunch of stupid cops shooting themselves and demonstrators.
I guess this means you’re still tight with Parubiy’s story.
Oh, I don’t remember you answering the question. Parubiy. Stand tall with him.
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
That would be when someone cooks up Nazi conspiracy theories to distract attention from invasions, terrorism and land-grabs perpetrated by his own side?
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
That was from today’s BBC. I guess that you just can’t trust it.
Meanwhile, we can all trust you. Parubiy. Your kind of guy?
Omnes Omnibus
@Bob In Portland: Disbelieving your version of the story does not mean that one buys someone else’s version.
ETA and completely unrelated: Leslie Caron was extremely limber.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
Actually, I proposed that it was a false flag perpetrated by the Ukrainian security forces. But you seem to have skipped right past that part because, apparently, cops in Ukraine are as honest as the day is long and would never participate in the kind of false flag operations that US cops do, amirite?
Morzer
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
So is a false false flag a true flag?
Bob In Portland
@Morzer: Nipple Rings, you miserable, lying scumbag. You can’t even admit you’ve been hosed once again, that you’ve been rooting for the Nazis, and you can’t admit it.
But, really, Nipple Rings, I never had much faith in your intelligence, so you haven’t disappointed me.
You just go ahead and cheer for your team, Nipple.
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
Careful, Bobby. Your mask of “the one honest, reasonable man in the room” is slipping rather badly.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: His what now?
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
Well, fun as it is to try and point Bob’s blinders out to him for the millionth time, I really should get some house stuff done before bed, so I’m bowing out. You kids play nice now.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): So you’re saying the security forces at that time did a false flag, except that they did a false flag to blame themselves?
That doesn’t even make sense. You’re not too deep into the cocktails tonight, are you?
Do you find Deputy Speaker Parubiy a reliable source of information? Do you find him somewhat attractive, a kind of action guy, eh?
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Yeah, can’t admit it. Gutless wretch.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s his false flag operation against himself.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bob In Portland: If it happens, you’ll own it too. I don’t recall you doing much against it except bitching on the internet. Once a upon a time, a True Anti-Fascist would have gone and fought in Spain or something similar. Why aren’t you going to Ukraine to fight the Fascist Beast? Lumbago? Anal cysts?
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Bob In Portland:
No, my theory is that they attempted a false flag to “prove” that the protesters were violent, but it backfired on them. But I realize you think that every plan always works out flawlessly, so to propose that a plan was attempted and failed just does not compute for you. Plans always work perfectly. If they didn’t, you might have to admit that the world is full of chaos and sometimes plans have unexpected outcomes or unintended consequences.
Bob In Portland
Balloon Juice: The epigraph on the grave of American Liberalism.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bob In Portland: Bob, in your opinion does disagreement with you equal acquiescence to fascism? It tends to seem so. You lecture as though you know alone know the truth. If someone disputes any part of your opus, you accuse them of being a fascist sympathizer. It seems to be a less than honest debating tactic. Are you actually interested in a discussion or do you just want to lecture?
Anne Laurie
@AkaDad: C’mon, as of 11:15pm Channel 5 says a mere “8 to 12 inches” this weekend. Think positive!
(Although with high winds predicted, now we get to worry about losing power lines & not being able to repair them because of the drifts.)
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
He’s fixin’ to join the Walter Sobchak 101st Chairborne Battalion just as soon as his ethnically Russian khakis come back from the laundromat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: I doubt even that. I think that his anti-fascism consists of faux-intellectual mauderings on left-of-center blogs. IOW, it’s dross.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, he’s now written the epigraph for liberalism all over Balloon-Juice, so what possible reply can any of us make?
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): nice en dash
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: I give even BiP the typo benefit of the doubt. I am a saint.
Bob In Portland
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, and though I am a little long in the tooth, I should be fighting although I think I’m old enough to not even qualify for the Ukrainian draft.
Yesterday a few of you admitted that you had no say over American foreign policy. Not quite the insight I’d expect, but still on the right track. That’s progress. You see, eventually even the densest of liberals, the Charlie Browns who get the football pulled away from them over and over, figure out the process.
The war in Ukraine is wrong. It was caused by the US because the US is at war with Russia. America in the world today is like a bad case of cancer. Empires work that way. And when the guys at the top win, the rest of us lose. Sorry if I come off sounding too socialist for you.
There is no difference in foreign policy between Obama and Bush. That’s the way it is. No one against war will ever again be elected President. The system is set up that way. And because the propaganda works so well. The last one was McGovern and we’ve been down the shithole since. And our media will keep lying to us to promote the next war, and then the next war after that.
Well, I guess it’s time get away from this place for awhile. And after all that Mnem still can’t admit that Parubiy is a Nazi. It was an accident that Mnem would choose a Nazi to prove that the Nazis didn’t commit a false flag. But maybe that’s the path we must take together. One Nazi at a time. All of us at Balloon Juice can work our way through the Ukrainian government. We’ll go from dot to dot. We’ll go back to read that interview with Russ Bellant in The Nation. Oh, I realize most if not all you haven’t read it. But after weeks and months one by one the cast here at BJ will slowly pull their heads out of their asses and figure this out.
Or maybe I have too much faith in mankind.
Bob In Portland
Omnes Omnibus
@Bob In Portland: A few of me? Come on, BiP, they will be able to find an administrative role for you. I see that you didn’t bother to comment on my remarks here.
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
Very good, kid. Now, try looking up “epitaph”. You can do it!
Morzer
@Bob In Portland:
I must admit to being disappointed by Obama’s invasion of Iraq. That was a major bummer, man.
Major Major Major Major
You people are insane. Stop feeding the troll.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Taunting and feeding are different. I’ll admit that the difference is subtle.
Matt McIrvin
Tell that to the jerk who blew past me last night doing 45 when I was picking my way up a snow-covered residential street full of parked cars, trying not to have a head-on collision.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Bob In Portland:
Nazi is the opposite of Communist, or have you drunk the Wingnut coolaid that Nazis and Communists are the same thing?
It’s hardly surprising a Ukrainian nationalist would call himself a Nazi under the Soviet Union.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Bob In Portland:
So Obama is in bed with the Neo-Cons. That’s a nice tinfoil hat,
Bob In Portland
@Omnes Omnibus: No. Ignorance on the matter allows fascism to bloom. I guess Mnem’s embrace of Parubiy is because she doesn’t know that he’s a Nazi. A better comparison is the Good German one. Nipple Rings Morzer has his own issues. Maybe his sexual problems are placated by trying to flex dominance over minority thought.
Bob In Portland
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Sorry, that’s just ignorance on your part, but maybe that’s the problem here. It’s wrong for a Republican President to make war for the energy companies, but let’s give the benefit of the doubt for Obama.
Okay, what’s the US interest in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan? You’ll note that some of those have Obama’s fingerprints. Now, myself, from fifty years of observation have noted that it matters not a whit whether a Republican or Dem is in the White House. They don’t have any say in our foreign policy either. They’re just entertainers.
Now, when Obama starts selling out Social Security is he in bed with the neocons or is he just a wuss?
Bob In Portland
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: The Soviet Union ended several decades ago. This guy calls himself a Nazi now. But thanks for making excuses for the Nazis that the US supports.
Bob In Portland
@Major Major Major Major: Stop feeding the war machine.
Bob In Portland
@Morzer: You mean the current one? The one that starts with bombing and arming “moderate Syrians” and continues through more weapons and US trainers on the ground? That invasion? And the invasion of Syria? How about the bombing of Libya? You’ve been cool with all that, Nipple Rings? And how does the CIA, which probably monitors your visits to adult bookstores, happen to overlook the formation of a 70k army with artillery? You’re a laughable twit, Nipple.
Bob In Portland
@Morzer:
I was speaking figuratively. An epigram is: “a concise, clever saying, or a short, witty poem” which is not quite appropriate. Epitaph was probably the better word. Epigram, epitaph, whatever. Balloon is the figurative death of liberalism in the US.
Not one of the posters here is willing to debate the issue. But thanks for your insights on nipple rings.