• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Let’s finish the job.

I was promised a recession.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

… among the most cringeworthy communications in the history of the alphabet!

Everybody saw this coming.

Mobile Menu

  • Winnable VA House Races
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • War in Ukraine
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • 2021-22 Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Anderson On Health Insurance / Premiums up in smoke

Premiums up in smoke

by David Anderson|  May 15, 20157:17 am| 10 Comments

This post is in: Anderson On Health Insurance

FacebookTweetEmail

Reader Piquoiseau asks a good question on underwriting:

The word “non-smoker” appears in the chart you posted. In five years of reading about the ACA, this is the first time I’ve seen a reference to individuals being treated differently on the basis of their smoking or not smoking. While it was understandable that premiums would be higher for smokers in the days of underwriting, I had assumed that Guaranteed Issue and Community Rating meant that smoking — like other risk factors — would no longer affect individuals’ insurance options. I hope that you will post at some point about how insurance options differ for the large minority of people given to this particular vice.

The short answer is that smokers will pay more.  The long answer is below:

Guaranteed Issue and Community Rating are different things. Guaranteed Issue means that anyone who can double click on a button or sign their name to a form can get insurance. This does not mean that there is a single rating band and thus a single price for everyone. Under a guarantee issue universe, it is possible for a pair of 40 year olds to have policies with the same actuarial value and network with a $300 a month difference in premiums.

Community Rating means the rating band is the entire community or covered group. That means everyone who qualifies for the insurance gets the same premium price. It is a subsidy from the healthy/cheap to the sick/expensive.

Policies with complete Guaranteed Issue and Community Rating are the most common coverage element in the United States.  That is most if not all policies offered by employers.  Once an employee qualifies to be part of the medical insurance group set up by the employer, they are guaranteed a policy if they elect to be covered and they’ll pay the same rate.  Qualification to be part of the group can vary; for Mayhew Insurance, an employee is eligible on the first day of orientation, at my old job it was the first of the month after the hire date, my wife’s job offered insurance at the first of the month after sixty days from the hire date etc.  But once qualified everyone in a tier of coverage (self, self and adult partner, self and kid, self and kids, family etc) pays the same rate.

True Community Rating on the employer side is fading a little bit as more variables are allowed to be introduced.  Smoking is a frequent premium upper while participation in a wellness incentive program will often reduce premiums or deductibles.

PPACA is has guaranteed issue and partial community rating. Insurance companies are allowed to take three things into account when they issue differential rates on the individual market.  The first is age.  On average younger people are way cheaper than older people.  Insurers can have a 3:1 premium spread between their age 64 rates and their age 21 rates.  Secondly, insurers can price discriminate based on geography.  States define the geographic sub-units where differential pricing can occur.  Some states like Vermont consider the entire state a single rating area, so geography is irrelevant.  Other states, like California cluster their counties into zones.  Zone 1 can have different rates than Zone 2 for the same person.  This is because the expected cost of services can differ between counties (see cost of services in Aspen, Colorado versus Denver, Colorado for instance on the importance of zoning)  and the general health status of people vary by region.  People  in Applachian North Carolina are sicker on average than people in the Research Triangle area.

Finally, insurers are allowed to charge up to a 50% surcharge  for smokers.  They are not required to charge 50%.  I just looked at my market’s Second Silver, and the smoking surcharge for my personal age band is 3% for that particular policy.  It will vary.  Using the same values,  another company’s smoking surcharge for their lowest Silver is 20%.  The actuaries disagree on how much smoking will cost the insurers incrementally for the current policy year.

The short answer is that smokers will pay more.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Friday Morning Entertainment Open Thread
Next Post: Congrats On Not Tossing Your Son Into A Wood Chipper »

Reader Interactions

10Comments

  1. 1.

    NotMax

    May 15, 2015 at 9:17 am

    Blatant discrimination against those who choose to make use of a legal product.

    Do heavy drinkers pay more?

    Coal miners? Chimney sweeps?:

    Red meat eaters?

    Tanning booth habitues?

    Plus, nicotine addiction is a pre-existing condition.

  2. 2.

    ShadeTail

    May 15, 2015 at 9:43 am

    @NotMax:

    Do heavy drinkers pay more?

    They should, in my opinion. Heavy drinking is provably linked to a long list of health problems.

    And you say nicotine addiction is a pre-existing condition. Maybe it qualifies in the technical sense, but not in the same way as, for example, my chronic asthma. Nicotine addition (like heavy drinking) can be completely eliminated by behavior modification, while conditions like my asthma can only be managed even with proper medical care.

  3. 3.

    NotMax

    May 15, 2015 at 10:06 am

    Those who belong to religions which eschew medical procedures were granted a carve-out from the mandate in ACA, too.

    So much for the concept of the commonweal.

    Paying in to support services one doesn’t use is part and parcel of the program. Obvious example is males whose monies help to support OB-GYN procedures.

    @ShadeTail

    Not dissing on you nor suggesting it is my own stance, just riffing, but it also could be argued that those with chronic conditions such as described ought to pay more.

  4. 4.

    different-church-lady

    May 15, 2015 at 10:13 am

    What about heavy internet blog commenters? It’s gotta be bad for your mental health…

  5. 5.

    Richard Mayhew

    May 15, 2015 at 10:39 am

    @NotMax: Okay, get the bill passed that is far more inclusive of people who don’t want to get in plus far more price discriminatory… try to get 219 in 2010? Can you; I doubt it… that was the marginal winning coalition so any significant changes to expand the scope of the bill probably loses people faster than it gains people. Remember, the ideological peers of the marginal votes (Blue Dogs) for the bill were voting against the bill because it did too much. There are very few scenarios where I can see the bill’s scope getting wider without losing 2 or more net votes in 2009… where are the votes?

  6. 6.

    rikyrah

    May 15, 2015 at 11:05 am

    thanks for this information

  7. 7.

    tones

    May 15, 2015 at 5:15 pm

    so true, heart disease being one of the highest killers is basically a symptom of the meat packing industry.I am vegetarian, what discount do I get?
    Does it at least cancel out smoking and or drinking?
    Obesity and heart disease are basically CAUSED by the American diet and food factories, processed foods, etc.,.
    How much more do meat eaters pay?

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    May 15, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    @Richard Mayhew

    Appreciate the response, even though it addresses the mirror image of what was said.

  9. 9.

    Piquoiseau

    May 15, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    @RichardMayhew

    Thanks for answering my question, Richard — you wasted no time getting to it!

  10. 10.

    pseudonymous in nc

    May 15, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    @tones:

    I am vegetarian, what discount do I get?

    But that’s just a variation on the theme of “I’m a man, why should my premiums pay for ladyparts medicine?” As Richard has discussed here before, that path leads to the idea of special snowflake insurance with a risk pool of one, which is where actuarial stuff breaks down.

    Smokers as a cohort get sicker. I’m all for carrot-and-stick approaches here, where the carrot is easy access to cheap (or free) resources to get people off nicotine, and the stick is a premium bump,

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

VA Purple House Delegates

Donate

Political Action

Postcard Writing Information

Recent Comments

  • Shalimar on Cold Grey Dawn Open Thread: SBF Goes On Trial — Officially (Oct 3, 2023 @ 5:20am)
  • Adam Lang on Cold Grey Dawn Open Thread: SBF Goes On Trial — Officially (Oct 3, 2023 @ 5:14am)
  • Tony Jay on Cold Grey Dawn Open Thread: SBF Goes On Trial — Officially (Oct 3, 2023 @ 5:10am)
  • eversor on Prime Time Viewing Open Thread: ProPublica Interviews President Biden (Oct 3, 2023 @ 4:45am)
  • JWR on Prime Time Viewing Open Thread: ProPublica Interviews President Biden (Oct 3, 2023 @ 4:21am)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
We All Need A Little Kindness
What Has Biden Done for You Lately?

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
TaMara
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Join the Fight!

Join the Fight Signup Form
All Join the Fight Posts

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Cole & Friends Learn Español

Introductory Post
Cole & Friends Learn Español

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2023 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!