Here are his antics today:
On Tuesday, Trump ramped up his attacks on the South Carolina senator — who made headlines Monday for calling the Donald a “jackass” — and even gave out Graham’s private phone number.
Trump began his rambling diatribe by calling Graham a “lightweight” and an “idiot.”
“He doesn’t seem like a very bright guy. He actually probably seems to me not as bright as Rick Perry. I think Rick Perry probably is smarter than Lindsey Graham,” Trump added, riffing on prior insults he had lobbed at the former Texas governor.
Then Trump transitioned to an embarrassing anecdote, which the billionaire real estate developer said was from a few years ago, in which Graham called Trump “begging” him for a good reference with Trump’s pals on the Fox News morning program “Fox & Friends.”
Trump said that he promised Graham he would put out a good word, and the South Carolina Republican then gave him his phone number to follow up.
Republican presidential candidate, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., speaks at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, Saturday, July 18, 2015. (AP Photo/Nati Harnik)Trump then read out what he said was Graham’s phone number, telling his supporters to “try it.”
“I wonder what caused that,” Graham told a POLITICO reporter who dialed the number, about the influx of calls.
“When it comes to the Donald, nothing surprises me anymore,” he said. “It’s just too bad, really,” he said, adding that Trump is taking away from a discussion on the Iran deal and more substantive policy issues.
Donald Trump is the collective voice of every ill-informed wingnut cspan caller combined with your grandfather’s email forwards.
Kropadope
I wonder if there isn’t some form of civil action that Graham can take against the Donald?
chopper
hence his status as frontrunner.
JPL
John, Saw a tweet where you mentioned feeling hung over when you woke. Allergies will sometimes cause that feeling.
Donald needs to go away. At this point, I wish the RNC would tell Fox news that if Trump is on the stage, the others will boycott.
beltane
In truth, the “discussion” regarding these issues, from the GOP side, is just as crazy as anything that could flow from Donald Trump’s mouth.
BGinCHI
Let’s see if this makes sense:
Donald Trump is running for the President of the Republican Party.
That’s all he or any of the other idiots can ever be, so why should they care about people who can spot a con? The mistake, at this point in Embarrassing American History, is to try to remain electable nationally with a R after your name.
Emma
Trump is what they deserve. Unfortunately the rest of us have to hear about it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
O, Teh Donald, you had me with you right up to the doxxing.
I believe for every drop of Trump that falls…. if we’re ignoring Lindsey on foreign policy, a flower has grown.
BGinCHI
@Kropadope: Like wearing a dress in public?
It worked for Giuliani.
Joel
CSPAN guy, for those who don’t know.
Phil Perspective
@JPL: Why does he? Because the Democrats can’t, and won’t, take advantage of the nuttiness of the GOP? How can you not like Trump causing havoc in the GOP. They made their bed. Now they have to sleep in it.
schrodinger's cat
Trump is the perfect representative of the GOP base.
BTW why is the Republican party GOP, when clearly the Democratic Party is the one that is the older of the two.
Punchy
I’m stunned that Trump was able to keep his hole shut about the worst kept secret in the Senate w/r/t Sen. PittyPat’s orientation. Exposing such a rumor seems right up his alley.
boatboy_srq
@beltane: Glad I’m not the only one who sees that.
Brachiator
I heard on the radio this morning that the conservative newspaper in Iowa was urging Trump to drop his campaign bid. I say, run, Donald, run! His poll numbers keep climbing and his value to the GOP (as far as Democrats are concerned) is incalculable.
So, Donald, insult somebody else. For the love of the deity.
There are about 474 Insulting Days left until election day, 2016. Come on Donald! You can do it.
Phil Perspective
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You’re feeling sorry for Lindsay? I’m sorry, I don’t. Start with his incessant war-mongering and the list grows really long from there. Don’t forget he didn’t have the stones to tell his buddy McCain not to pick Snowbilly Snookie.
boatboy_srq
I’m not sure whether a pResident Trump would be the death knell for bipartisanship – or whether the GOTea Congresscritters would line up with their Dem colleagues in opposition.
mtiffany
“Often imitated, never replicated — thank god — it’s ‘The Donald’.”
Phil Perspective
@Brachiator: Even people from Iowa admitted that the GOP base in Iowa hates the DMR. Not sure why, as most editorial boards are conservative.
22over7
All I can say is that the GOP primary has been much more entertaining than I thought it would be. All the other candidates are trying to get traction with the usual war-on-day-one and kill the poors, but nobody is listening. The 8/6 debate should be a hoot.
ira-NY
Well, Trump is correct. McCain and Graham are a couple of dolts and it is way past time that they are called out for their steroidal stupidity. Although Trump’s method is piss poor, in terms of real trouble, it pales in comparison to the horrific consequences of McCain and Graham’s influence on our foreign policy.
Knowbody
Four front pagers.
Four consecutive posts on Donald Fucking Trump on a “liberal politics blog.”
But you still wonder why Democrats lose big and nobody gives a shit about Hillary, Bernie, & Uncle Joe.
mtiffany
@Brachiator:
Starchy residue! That is a lot of booze and pie. I don’t think my liver or my wasitline will make it that long.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Phil Perspective: I feel a vague kind of pity for Lindsey, but he is a raging asshole. I mostly wish Trump knew when to quit. If he had said, “I admire McCain’s military service, but look at his record on immigration”, he might just have driven the old fool into retirement. Here, he made LG an object of ridicue (that Fox story has more than a ring of truth, IMHO), now it’ll all just be about Trump going to far.
JPL
@Phil Perspective: I’m not sure that he is helping anymore because he is making the rest of pack look sane.
Kropadope
@BGinCHI: I was thinking more along the lines of a lawsuit.
Mandalay
Today Lindsey Graham called President Obama “the Neville Chamberlain of our time”.
Screw Graham. I hope Trump pounds him into the dirt.
Germy Shoemangler
When Trump announced for POTUS he didn’t even have prepared remarks? Remarkable.
I feel like his campaign is a performance art piece.
But Jeb stands next to him and looks dignified. Voters say “Bush is so mature and well spoken! Presidential!”
It’s like if I stand next to Quasimodo, all the ladies say “Germy is so handsome!”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Knowbody: and with the election looming so close, too! Shame, shame on our frivolity and jocularity!
Nobody cares about Bernie? I thought his big crowds were proof that he’s a lock for two terms?
geg6
Donald Trump is officially my favorite GOP presidential candidate of all time. Ever. Forever.
Kropadope
@22over7: So, soon? Effen amazing!!!
Germy Shoemangler
@Mandalay: I saw that on the CBS morning show with Charlie Rose. Gayle King stared at Lindsey in disbelief. Even Charlie seemed startled. Norah just stared with a fixed grin.
And then as they were fading to commercial, I saw Gayle leave her seat quickly.
To vomit?
schrodinger's cat
@Germy Shoemangler: Especially in your new suit. BTW did you buy it or not yet.
ira-NY
The Des Moines Register’s influence on GOP caucus goers is zero! The hate that fish wrapper. The Register’s call for Trump to leave the race was the best thing that could have happened for trump.
dmsilev
T-16 days and counting to the first debate…
WJS
@Knowbody: Man, someone should write a diary on Kos full of sick burns about this.
Capt Seaweed
I hate that I have to look at DT’s ugly mug every. single. day, but I am enjoying the crap out of how he’s disassembling the Republican Party. By the time he’s done the only people who will support him are the ones who are supporting him right now. There is just no reach-out for this guy. No reach-around either, speaking of Sen. Graham…
BGinCHI
Prediction:
–Hilary drops out of the race right after the first Dem primary (Bill’s fault or caught naked with Mark Penn)
–Bernie Sanders wins the nomination
–GOP puts the fix in for Bush
–Trump runs as an Independent
–Sanders names Michelle Obama as his running mate
SOCIALISM!
Kropadope
@Mandalay:
He made technically correct decisions that will be second-guessed forever by a highly motivated segment of the population?
geg6
@Phil Perspective:
I’m with you. I have no fucks to give for any of those assholes in the GOP at this point. Fuck ’em all.
dedc79
@Knowbody: The problem isn’t the focus on Trump. The problem is crap like this:
The MSM has volunteered to do the GOP’s push-polling for free.
BGinCHI
@Germy Shoemangler: To get Charlie’s bourbon.
JPL
@Germy Shoemangler: That’s what I think. You can tie Trump’s immigration remarks to the rest of the pack but there’s a limit.
Germy Shoemangler
@schrodinger’s cat: Thanks! Purchased some slacks and shirts. Saving the blazer for last. Having trouble finding something lightweight.
pamelabrown53
Hey John Cole,
I think your last sentence: “Donald Trump is the collective voice of every ill-informed cspan caller…” should be included in the lexicon of diary tags.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WJS: if John Cole and Betty Cracker told people to vote in mid-terms, they would.
And don’t get me started on Kay and her notorious indifference to state and local elections. I blame her for Scott Walker.
Kropadope
@Knowbody:
Goes to show that even your smaller blogs are susceptible to the siren song of click-bait.
docg
I am officially bored with Donald Hump.
SoupCatcher
If this were a reality TV show – where a contestant getting edited to come off as an asshole is usually a good sign that they have gone far in the competition – then Trump would be a shoe-in for the finale.
We’ll see how that translates to reality. How high is the market for assholishness?
bupalos
I actually watched his event and I definitely won’t be missing another one. This is performance art. If you’re only watching the “highlights” you’re really missing out, because all kinds of interesting stuff happens in the margins of this guy’s fevered brain. In a little peroration about why you’re much better off voting for a obscenely wealthy person like himself, he was literally bragging about having paid off politicians to help secure his obscene wealth. That just flies right on past.
There’s a slight chance of this backfiring as The Donald might make other candidates (that are in reality equally batshit insane) look good by comparison. But that’s a fairly slight chance.
Holden Pattern
@SoupCatcher:
No known limit.
Phil Perspective
@Mandalay: Just another mark against Graham. Also, does anyone think Trump won’t take on Jeb and Scott Walker before too long?
boatboy_srq
@Mandalay: We should all be thoroughly enjoying the GOTea party-wide meltdown here. It’s a circular skeet shoot: Trump on McCain, Trump on Graham, trump on Perry, everyone on Trump… This is what the GOTea insisted it wanted: no-holds-barred primaries, fueled by private campaign cash limited only by the determination or gullibility of the deep-pocketed backers. Guaranteed high body count. The only way this ends badly for Dems is if they get tricked into participating. And if the GOTea doesn’t like it, they can always revisit Citizens United: somebody should have told them that unlimited private campaign cash translates to very bloody campaign seasons, and it’s the pols’ blood that’s at stake and not the donors’.
kc
No protesters shut Trump down?
jl
I need to say a word strongly in favor of Donald Trump, because this thread needs to be fair and balanced.
Trump is providing a contribution to the Republican presidential primary that party richly deserves.
There, I said it, dammit, yes, I said it.
BGinCHI
@bupalos: I’m not even sure Ben Carson can remember any of his formerly crazy ideas at this point.
It’s like you are the mediocre center of your NBA team and they trade for Wilt Chamberlain.
schrodinger's cat
@jl: OT question. What do you think happens to Greece next? How long do you think they can sustain this farce?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@SoupCatcher: So, you’re a fan of “Project Runway” then?
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Hungry Joe
I’ve finally figured out who JEB! reminds me of. Remember the simpleminded character played by Tim Conway in the “Mama” sketches on the old “Carol Burnett Show”? The befuddled little guy with the hearing aid? Yeah, him.
Phil Perspective
@dedc79: Volunteered? The TradMed isn’t owned by hippies as part of a co-op. They are owned by corporations!! And what do we know about corporations? They prefer GOPers!!! Is that such a hard concept for people to grasp? Sure they might give to Democrats to hedge their bets, but when the money is down they prefer the GOP!!
BGinCHI
@schrodinger’s cat: I think Sandy and Danny Zuko will get together eventually.
Oh, wait. Greece.
Never mind.
Turgidson
““It’s just too bad, really,” he said, adding that Trump is taking away from a discussion on the Iran deal and more substantive policy issues.”
Of course, Graham’s idea of a “discussion” of the Iran deal is to hide under his bed as a pool of piss accumulates at his feet, screaming about how Iran is going to nuke DC any minute now unless we bomb the crap out of them immediately.
Mandalay
@Germy Shoemangler:
Your belief in the integrity of the media than is a lot stronger than mine. Rose didn’t simply ask Graham “What do you think about the deal with Iran?”; this is what he asked:
Any shock from the hosts was merely about how easy it was to get Graham to say exactly what they wanted him to say.
Graham doesn’t even realize that he is a puppet, and Charlie Rose is pulling his strings.
catclub
@JPL:
Sen Reid is doing his best to counter that impression: “Name one significant difference between your immigration stance and Donald Trump’s”
Snarkworth
Donald Trump is the honey badger. Honey badger don’t give a shit.
beltane
@Mandalay: Exactly my point. Everything these people say is either crazy and/or despicable. Donald Trump just happens to say them better.
Obama is a truly talented man. How many of us can hope to be Neville Chamberlain and Adolph Hitler?
boatboy_srq
@schrodinger’s cat: Greece’s current arrangements will only last two more elections: the first “no-confidence” that Syriza will likely survive, and the second when things don’t get better and the electorate demands a government that really won’t submit to the ECB.
bemused
@docg:
Yes, but he’s not…yet. He loves being a buffoon and a jackass. He must be floating on cloud 9. He has managed to get an incredible amount of time and national exposure in front of a huge audience to flap his mouth continually saying whatever ridiculous crap comes into his head. His dream come true.
SoupCatcher
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Heh. At one time, yes, guilty as charged.
Trump in real life is way more over-the-top than I think a show could get away with. If this were a show, I’d feel like the editors had overplayed their hand.
pamelabrown53
@bupalos:
Excellent. Do you have a link to Trump’s diarrhea attack?
Instead of being “bored” by Trump, why not engage in some ratf*cking and shoot him 10 bucks with the suggestion of a campaign theme song:: “We Want To Take You Higher”.
Paul in KY
@schrodinger’s cat: Why were the Bolsheviks called the Bolsheviks? Answer: Marketing!
Tree With Water
@Mandalay: Screw ’em ALL… and I wonder if the Brits ever get tired of hearing the phrase “another Chamberlain” tossed around like confetti. What they should do is come up with a pithy little phrase of their own (and they’re great at that) that invokes images of Bush-Cheney’s successful plot to war, to better expose and tar politicians who are in fact bloodthirsty villains.
JPL
@pamelabrown53: Wonkette has a link to the Lindsay part of the speech.
You can click to it from this very site. It’s on the right hand side.
boatboy_srq
@22over7: Popcorn sales should be high enough to save A&P from bankruptcy and give ConAgra a 6% bump on 8/7 in response to increased demand for Redenbacher’s.
Brachiator
@dedc79:
What’s odd is that anyone thinks this is odd. It’s Fox News fer Jeebus’ sake.
Germy Shoemangler
@beltane: This letter appeared in my local newspaper today:
cmorenc
The schadenfreude of the damage Trump is doing to the GOP is delicious to behold – one key effect is that his racist remarks have had the effect of enabling a much larger segment of the MSM to notice and explicitly mention that the reason he’s resonating so well with so much of the GOP base is because he blatantly says what they really feel, instead of signaling with code words coy enough that the MSM is too often nervously uncomfortable to depart from their “both sides do it” attempt to project themselves as fair.
boatboy_srq
@SoupCatcher: “Mitt Romney: Republican candidate for pResident in 2012” should give you a good idea what that market looks like.
SRW1
@Mandalay:
You highlighted only part of the trick. The highlighted part was the bait, the pull on the strings was the last sentence.
ETA: You out-edited me.
Paul in KY
@bupalos: He’s gotta say something sooner or later that will sink him. Need to start a pool on when that will be.
A guy
Trump will fade away. But his position on the absurdity of continuing to allow illegal immigrants to stream across our boarders will not. And the left wing tolerance for that may be the defining issue of 16 and cost them dearly
SuzieC
@Capt Seaweed:
Also gotta love the fact that Trump just stomped all over Kasich’s big announcement speech.
Kropadope
Lindsey Graham:
Except for long-standing international law and whatever else had convinced Iran not to make nuclear weapons in the last 20 years.
We were on pretty good terms before the Shah was overthrown and Persia was once one of the most advanced, peaceful nations on Earth.
Mirror…
That’s Iran’s enemy.
Obama got Assad to surrender his chemical weapons without dropping a single bomb.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Germy Shoemangler: “appeared” as in LTE, or editorial?
jl
@schrodinger’s cat: @boatboy_srq:
schrod’s cat: I haven’t had enough time to read up on the deal, so am going by what I read in Krugman, Baker, and Stiglitz. My imperfect understanding is that Greece gets a few years breather on repayment of principal, and my understanding is that if it were not for that, the deal would be unambiguously worse than what they were able to get previously. If that one concession is not enough to make a difference, then I guess boatboy’s scenario is likely.
Dean Baker in his Beat the Press blog has an interesting piece on possible long term effects of Euro on Finland’s economy. It Baker’s analysis holds up, it will become more and more clear that Euro as currently administered by Germany and ECB will cause a lot of trouble for other countries too on a longer term basis.
Krguman wrote that he had heard that the Syriza government had made no provisions for exit and recreation of own currency. I find that hard to believe. If that is true, what kind of deal did Syriza expect to get?
Anyway, I am just reading the same stuff you are. Probably my only advantage in understanding is that I keep some Schaum’s outlines and Obstfeld and Rogoff’s Foundations of International Economics handy to to look up wonky shit that Krugman often refers to obliquely. Which I recommend anyone not afraid of college algebra and a little calculus and stats check out.
dedc79
@Brachiator: Well none of it is surprising. Certainly not the Fox News part. But the fact that the AP and CNN are doing the same thing is troubling.
kc
@Mandalay:
“Why do you think Obama hates America so much, Senator Graham?”
Germy Shoemangler
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: letter to the editor.
Mandalay
@SRW1:
You are right of course, but unfortunately I messed up emphasis on the final sentence when I posted initially. If you refresh this page it will be there.
Yatsuno
@Knowbody: Complain to the blog owner. Make sure you write a long e-mail detailing your grievances. Use all caps. Cole LIVES for that shit!
(Shorter me: Spack off hoser!)
Jacks mom
It’s nothing if not entertaining but it still makes me sad that this is what this country has come to. Thank you 24/7 news cycle.
Jeffro
@SuzieC: Someone should point that out to Trump, just to get the obligatory, “Who’s that? Who? He’s a nobody!” response from der Trumpster.
A buddy told me this whole GOP thing is devolving so fast, the first debate may well consist of 90 minutes of “your momma” jokes. Not sure we could tell the difference at this point anyway…
jl
@Kropadope: Thanks for giving us a capsule refresher. Similar thoughts went through my head when I saw Graham talking about how ‘substantive’ his own BS discussion of the Iran deal was.
They need to answer the question Obama has posed: if they have an feasible and realistic alternative to solving the Iranian nuke problem other than gong to war right now, what is it? Maybe the corporate hack celebrity news actors posting as journalists could ask Graham and his buddies, but I have not heard them do so yet.
Edit: to be fair, Walker has gone there, and said he might start bombing first day in office.
catclub
@SuzieC: Completely by accident. I doubt Trump knew Kasich was announcing.
Jeffro
@Paul in KY: Only thing that could sink him at this point would be for him to speak honestly about how unbelievably dumb the average GOP base voter is…what are the odds of that?
Paul in KY
@Kropadope: Poor ole Persia. At one time the jewel of Islam. Then a buffoonish leader of something called the ‘Khwarazmian Empire’ (to the immediate East of Persia) allowed 2 ambassadors of Genghis Khan to be murdered. Thus started the obliteration of the Islamic Caliphate.
pseudonymous in nc
@Tree With Water:
It’s bizarre that American right-wing politicians all have a stiffy for Churchill and want to declare everyone they don’t like a Chamberlain. Perhaps they really want to be reminded about how the US didn’t bother showing up to WW2 until 1941?
[Especially when you have the (not really) revelations from the past week that the royal family liked Chamberlain, and were loath to send for Churchill in 1940. And the British electorate sent him packing in 1945.]
SRW1
@Mandalay:
As somebody responded in similar circumstances on another blog: The edit function takes half the fun out of pedantry.
Paul in KY
@Jeffro: It might bubble up if one of them farted in the elevator he was in or something else that gets his unfettered id churning.
Kropadope
@jl: It’s amazing how many lies some GOPers can pack into a single paragraph.
NotMax
Wait until he shows up at the “debate” accompanied by a covey of scantily clad Trumpettes to cheerlead.
Brachiator
@Germy Shoemangler:
Wow. Fairly well-written letter, but very sad, and the person has bought into all the GOP and Tea Party fear mongering, hook, line and sinker.
JPL
@pseudonymous in nc: I think the brits realize that we saved Churchill.
Paul in KY
@NotMax: Might make em watchable!
Paul in KY
@JPL: Churchill was the leader of the Conservative Party & that was what the Brits sent packing in 45.
schrodinger's cat
@jl: Shaum’s outlines for what? I have plenty math and physics ones and one on micro.
Germy Shoemangler
@Brachiator:
They report and he decides to write a letter to the editor.
Sometimes a letter will appear in the paper with a liberal viewpoint, but these are mostly outnumbered by the foxx-talking point regurgitators.
Brachiator
@jl:
Jeebus, Mary, Joseph! Why do people keep bringing up phony issues like this? Everyone knows that the GOP has a realistic solution for Iran, at least everyone with a brain knows this. The solution is kept in a locked drawer, right next to the GOP alternative to the president’s health care plan, and the GOP solution to immigration reform.
Mandalay
@pseudonymous in nc:
My impression from when I lived there for a while is that the British truly appreciated that the US saved their asses in WW2 (and WW1 for that matter), and the war effort from some other countries (e.g. France) niggles them far more.
Knowbody
@dedc79:
No, the MSM gets paid ridiculous amounts of cash to conduct GOP push-polling.
It’s the BJ front pager fucktards who are doing it for free.
But keep laughing at Trump while the people who vote for assholes like him turn out in record numbers and our side stays home and writes scathing tweets about how nobody listens to liberals.
You all deserve the Republican president and Congress that will fuck this country into the ground.
Steve in the ATL
@boatboy_srq:
Beautifully stated!
Belafon
@Jeffro: He could still pull that off, by talking about all those other RINOs who keep voting weak Republicans. None of his base would believe he’s talking about them.
Belafon
@Knowbody: Were you even here saturday, sunday, or monday?
mai naem mobile
I know this Trump thing isn’t particularly great for Democracy but shit it’s just so much fun listening to this especially when it’s on the other side. I’m soooo glad he’s not a Democrat. But really, carry on Donald. I’d like him to have a real knock at Walker,Kasich and Rand before he’s done.
Heliopause
C’mon, give the guy his due. Would anybody be paying the tiniest bit of attention to this process right now if it wasn’t for Trump? I sure as hell wouldn’t. The only other thing going on that’s even microscopically interesting is the Bernie Sanders stuff, and that’s much more a social media fight than an electoral politics one.
Who among you hasn’t wanted to stroll into Lindsey Graham’s back yard and call him a lightweight and an idiot in front of a large crowd? Be honest. And the fact that this is a supposedly serious Presidential candidate rather than a Colbert character…
Tree With Water
@pseudonymous in nc: It should be a law that any politician that invokes Munich or Chamberlain must read The Gathering Storm, Churchill’s first volume in his WW2 autobiographical history.
When Hitler marched into Prague and blew up the Munich Agreement, Churchill wrote that he looked forward to Chamberlain’s remarks to Parliament the next day with “anticipatory contempt”. So it is with me and literally any utterance from any republican party politician in the country, except Donald Trump. He’s made more trouble for the GOP over the past few weeks than the democratic party has over the past thirty-five years.
gogol's wife
@beltane:
My thoughts exactly.
schrodinger's cat
@pseudonymous in nc: They love Churchill because he was a bully and unapologetic enthusiast for the British Empire.
ETA: Check out the Bengal famine of 1943.
jl
@Brachiator: There is another solution, one that I think that Obama is aware of, but for some political reason he had decided not to mention, though maybe he has and I missed it.
The other alternative is that the GOP does not really view Iran nukes as a problem, but rather as a good tool to gin up a national security crisis for partisan political gain. So, the actual solution the GOP will implement is to stomp their feet self righteously and pass lots of laws for unilateral ineffective economic sanctions, and then look the other way while rich corporations find ways to evade them. Hey, it worked for North Korea and Iran during the Bush II administration. Josh Marshal is the only person I have seen directly discussing the real GOP game.
Maybe Obama has not, to my knowledge, talked about it because he wants to hold it in reserve in case needed. Basically, calling out the GOP on their dishonest BS would be a last resort.
From what I heard this Sunday on Face the Nation, hacks like Dickerson seem willing to help the GOP BS lines going strong, though, so the corporate media is not going to do anything to counter it.
Sherparick
@Kropadope: No.
1. Both are public figures and hence Graham would have to prove “Actual Malice” in any slander/libel case (Sullivan v. N.Y. Times).
2. Further, its pure opinion, “I think Bonehead Smith is dumber than Rocks for Brains Doe.” Although the U.S. is one of the few common law jurisdictions that does not per se distinguish between “fact” allegations and “opinion,” the plaintiff still has the burden of proving what is an inherently unfalsifiable claim is false. See the briefs in the Mann v. Steyn.
3. Graham and all the others have to just lump it.
Knowbody
@Belafon: You mean when Black Lives Matter came out with the long knives against Sanders and O’Malley?
I honestly do not know which is better proof that liberals deserve to lose in 2016, the GOP clickbait or the circular firing squad.
the Conster
@Germy Shoemangler:
So, Walker’s promise to bomb Iran on day one is evidence of the US’s peaceful intentions? Teabagging moron is a moron.
Brachiator
@dedc79:
Yeah, you have a point here.
Kropadope
@gogol’s wife:
But at least without Donald there, the discussion would be about Iran, however crazy it was.
rikyrah
@cmorenc:
The MSM can’t hide behind Trump’s remarks, like they do the Luntz-approved dogwhistles. They pretend that the GOP isn’t saying what it’s saying.
It’s the humoring of birthers, saying, ‘ well, they must have a deeper point’.
Um, no. they don’t. they never did.
Donald Trump is feeding the base filet mignon. And, the MSM is mad that Trump isn’t giving them language to hide behind.
Kropadope
@Sherparick: I wasn’t thinking slander/libel, more like invasion of privacy or some form of incitement for the phone number thing.
Brachiator
@jl:
I thought that the economic sanctions were fairly effective. Iran certainly seems to want them lifted. If this is the case, that some corporations are finding a way to benefit may not be that important.
There are a lot of other ways to look at this. Perhaps the GOP is signaling the possibility of a deal with Iran if they win in November despite their public opposition of Obama’s plan.
Also, another question is not so much whether the GOP views Iran’s nukes as a problem, but whether Israel views it as a problem. I could see Netanyahu working on a war plan independent of any reliance on US military assistance.
The GOP would only deny any charge, and put it down to politics as usual.
gene108
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain
Despite all the pop history that Chamberlain appeased Hitler and it took Churchill to get the Brits to fight, Chamberlain was PM when WW2 broke and and if not for failing health, would have continued to be PM.
Churchill was next in-line, in Chamberlain’s Cabinet to become PM.
They were in the same Party and “on the same team”, so to speak.
Mandalay
@Kropadope:
Graham is running for president. Taking legal action against Trump would make him look like a spineless crybaby running to mommy.
And I’m pretty sure that Graham couldn’t afford the civil lawyers he would need to defeat Trump’s lawyers. The downside in the worst case would be that Graham would be financially ruined and publicly humiliated. Why go there?
JPL
@Paul in KY: I meant that he begged FDR to send aid.
Aleta
Any day that Trump dominates the headlines is a success for him, good or bad no matter. Whenever the spotlight goes off, he’ll get even more competitive for attention, since upstaging is how he’s defining the whole contest. I don’t know if his shadow on the other GOP candidates will be good or bad for the Democrats. Might be good if it prevents the field from narrowing down for lack of clear definition. Might be bad if it prevents their flaws and mistakes from emerging early enough for the Democrats to amplify them and test strategies. Less focus on the other GOPers minimizes the effects of their presentations, but also hurts the effects of Democratic response to them.
Doug R
https://vimeo.com/2234590
I think Donald Trump is like Homer Simpsons electric hammer once in awhile it hits the nail.
schrodinger's cat
@gene108: The British were war weary after the debacle of WWI and so was much of Europe. So it is not hard to understand why they tried to avoid another war as long as they could.
Tree With Water
@schrodinger’s cat: Patton was an asshole, but when the chips were down he was our asshole, moreover one qualified to lead an army against the forces of the Third Reich. It’s like when Charlie Watts told Keith Richards to a calm him down after Jagger was knighted by the Queen, “Relax, there are plenty of terrible people who have been knighted”. Or something like that..
jl
@Brachiator: But going forward, if the US abrogated the Iran deal, it would just be US sanctions, and they would be ineffective. It is a multilateral treaty under the auspices of the UN, not a treaty just between the US and Iran. The chances of the US getting cooperation on any sanctions regime would be zero. Not that the GOP would care about it.
Kropadope
@Brachiator:
They would be far less effective with the European and U.N.-imposed sanctions removed. Not only is that far fewer total sanctions, but it provides multinational corporations with a work-around. Also, such an approach would almost certainly endanger the inspections regime. Bad idea overall.
Hoodie
@Aleta: He may have already done the damage. When Trump was calling Mexican immigrants rapists, the other GOP candidates did next to nothing, but now they get up in arms because of McCain, which just further highlights how enslaved they are to the xenophobic elements of the party. In addition, they all look pretty powerless in the face of Trump’s insults, which makes Hillary look like freaking Godzilla. Trump knows exactly what he’s doing. That thing with Graham’s phone number had to have been premeditated.
Kropadope
@Mandalay: Fair enough. Thank you.
Kropadope
@Aleta:
Somehow, I don’t predict that to be Trump’s long-term effect.
Mandalay
@schrodinger’s cat:
I knew nothing about that but…wow:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html
It’s no wonder that the GOP worships Churchill; he didn’t like blacks, he didn’t like Arabs, he didn’t like Jews, he didn’t like Muslims…
Seanly
This, but substitute my father-in-law for my grandfather. Although, my maternal GF voted for Goldwater and was a Bircher. Both grandfathers died before the advent of email.
However, some of the stuff Trump is angry about is stuff we should all be angry about. He just horribly mashes it up:
1) NAFTA – we didn’t get hosed because those wily Mexicans out-negotiated us.
2) Ford isn’t moving plants to Mexico because those wily Mexicans out-negotiated us and they’re harder workers. Ford isn’t going to move those plants back to the USA unless we want to reduce wages below the poverty level.
3) about everything else he’s ranting about…
Davis X. Machina
@gene108: The appeasement policy was not a series of second-best, temporizing steps in the face of the German menace, either.
It was a conscious effort of HMG to get closer to the Germans, to supplant the French as the UK’s major ally in Europe, and to obtain a reliable partner in the struggle against Bolshevism.
That, plus a Treasury fixated on austerity, and you wind up with a situation where Munich is not an ugly necessity, but a good thing.
His monomaniacal fixation on Germany separated Churchill from the rest of the Tories of those days — and not much else.
schrodinger's cat
@Mandalay: You know how many famines India has had post independence? None. Not one. But they were a regular feature in British India.
ETA: It was a technique they perfected in Ireland before bringing it to India.
Brachiator
@jl:
Again, the wild card is Israel. Sanctions are ultimately a side issue. The core of the problem is being able to inspect Iran’s facilities. How does this benefit corporations if the GOP somehow gets its way?
jl
@Mandalay: Yes, what happened with the Bengal famine is well established. Churchill was a monstrous racist, and opposed independence for India to the bitter end. When it came to white people he could say ‘jaw jaw is better than war war’ but outside that club, he did not care a bit, as long as the whites came out on top.
jl
@Brachiator: I dunno. You think the GOP can think these things through in a realistic way. I don’t give them that much credit. There is short term political and economic profit to be had from BSing as long as possible, and in their minds we get lots of national security strength credibility chips and magic power pills by yelling loud. I suppose they would feel that stating a nuclear MAD doctrine with regard to any nuclear attack from Iran, and conditional on that, anyone who supports them through such an attack, would get us through.
Anyway, they already implemented that very policy for eight years during Bush II, so they are willing to carry through that approach for medium term, regardless of what nonsense is going on inside their fevered brains.
Warren Terra
Lindsey Graham ought to be thanking Trump, for two reasons. First, because the country was just reminded that Graham exists, which I think we’re all prone to forgetting, and Second, because his call log is now chock full of the dumbest, most gullible Republicans that can figure out how to dial a phone – a real cream of the cream. These are, as they say, The Good Leads. These phone numbers are for Closers.
Just One More Canuck
I don’t know if he’s short-fingered or not, but he certainly a vulgarian
cckids
@Germy Shoemangler:
He reminds me of nothing so much as a toddler getting attention for bad behavior. If your two-year old drops an f-bomb at the dinner table & the reaction is amused horror with extra attention, he/she will double down to keep the attention going, and before you know it, your life is laced with doses of profanity from the kid.
Tell me that isn’t Trump.
schrodinger's cat
@jl: Before the days of the British Raj, Bengal (West Bengal + Bangladesh of today) was one of the richest provinces of India and now it (Bangladesh) is synonymous with poverty and known for its sweatshops for fast fashion.
ETA: Which is in someways is ironic because the traditional weavers of Dacca make the finest cotton ever, mal mal which is as luxurious as silk.
Admiral_Komack
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I wouldn’t worry.
Since Barack Obama won’t be President the next time midterms roll around, I suspect the midterms will take on an heightened level of importance.
Pithy Pseudonym
@Brachiator: the economic sanctions that are multilateral are fairly effective. The ones that are just done by the U.S., not so much, since there’s very little that can’t be gotten from someone else. U.S. companies are generally unwilling to do much legal trade with Iranian firms since most Iranian companies of sufficient heft have ties to the Iranian Government or the IRGC, which would make US firms’ revenues subject to possible seizure to pay off judgements against Iran in U.S. courts.
The “unilateral” sanctions that have the most effect are the ones that essentially prohibit Iran access to the dollar-delineated financial system. Of course this doesn’t prohibit trade, it just imposes another tax on it; there are a number of UAE firms that make a good living off of the Iranian carry trade.
(Also, what jl and Kropadope said earlier and with fewer words.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Admiral_Komack: ? to which side?
Mandalay
@schrodinger’s cat:
@jl:
Your posts have inspired me to buy Churchill’s Secret War. Thanks.
Calouste
@Kropadope:
Because the Shah was a brutal dictator who did pretty much whatever the US and the oil companies wanted. But at least he wasn’t a commie.
Hoodie
@Warren Terra: Oh no, those are the shit leads, every wacko in the Trump camp. Trump has airplanes that are worth more than Lyndsey’s campaign fund. Lyndsey is not a closer, so the good leads would be wasted on him.
Tree With Water
From today’s Guardian.com: ‘Life does not entirely imitate satire: Haaretz reported that the Israeli leader has said he would not accept the offer because to do so would imply the Iran deal had been tacitly accepted, though Israeli army radio on Monday quoted unnamed defence ministry officials as saying they would discuss compensation from the US.”.
Isn’t that special? The Israeli’s won’t accept our offer of an arms shipment, yet still remain willing to suck at the tit of U.S. taxpayer- because that’s what friends do when one of them is an insufferable prick.
schrodinger's cat
@Mandalay: You are welcome. Let me know how you like the book, I haven’t read it. The famines in Bihar and Bengal were a fairly common occurrence in British India, the one in 1943 was one of the worst. Reminiscent of the Irish potato famines of an earlier era.
JPL
@schrodinger’s cat: No wonder the repubs like Churchill.
Tree With Water
@schrodinger’s cat: Theodore White was a reporter for Time Magazine who attached himself to an American unit stationed in India during the famine. It was as ugly as you’d imagine, and at times terrifying. In his autobiography he wrote that at one point during a transit, a GI rifleman riding in his jeep was forced to shoot people in order for them to keep moving; White was made sick by his own gratification that the soldier hit his targets. He later went on to write The Making Of A President series..
Brachiator
@Mandalay:
I’m adding it to my amazon wish list. I think I heard or read something about this earlier, but this book seems like it presents a good analysis of what happened.
gene108
@jl:
Kind of strange that.
Britain was getting its clock cleaned by the Japs, the Indian National Congress (i.e. the main political party for independence – Gandhi, Nehru, Patel et. al.) stated they would conditionally give support to Britain’s war effort.
The condition was complete independence at the end of hostilities.
Churchill told them to bugger off.
Instead of having all the manpower and material support of India behind Britain’s war effort, India was not fully behind Britain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quit_India_Movement
Gimlet
Those superior GOPers immediately dismiss out-of-hand whatever the Democrats think significant.
In an interview with Bloomberg on Monday, O’Malley discussed the national security implications of climate change. “One of the things that preceded the failure of the nation state of Syria and the rise of ISIS, was the effect of climate change and the mega-drought that affected that nation, wiped out farmers, drove people to cities, created a humanitarian crisis that created the symptoms — or rather, the conditions — of extreme poverty that has now led to the rise of ISIS and this extreme violence,” he said.
Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus called O’Malley’s comments “absurd.”
“Whether it’s the weak Obama-Clinton nuclear deal that paves the way for Iran to obtain an atomic bomb or Martin O’Malley’s absurd claim that climate change is responsible for ISIS, it’s abundantly clear no one in the Democratic Party has the foreign policy vision to keep America safe,” he said in a statement, via Fox News.
gene108
@gene108:
Some context for India’s apprehension of going all-in for WW2:
http://www.britishcouncil.org/blog/how-was-india-involved-first-world-war
gene108
@gene108:
Some context for India’s apprehension of going all-in for WW2:
http://www.britishcouncil.org/blog/how-was-india-involved-first-world-war
After WW1 India was actually “rewarded” with the Rowlatt Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowlatt_Act
Admiral_Komack
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Republicans: the usual fearmongering.
Democrats: Forget what we said in 2010 & 2014, the midterms are REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, important!!!!!!!!!!
Brachiator
@Pithy Pseudonym:
Good explanation. Thanks.
Tree With Water
@gene108: One of Churchill’s best thumbnail quips about a colleague occurred somewhere in the Sahara as Churchill stepped off a plane. He surveyed the limitless, barren desert and said, “Ah, how Cripps would love it”. Cripps was that kind of guy, apparently. I know Stalin couldn’t stand him, but then Stalin despised all western socialists as being weak kneed and lily livered.
Paul in KY
@Mandalay: I can’t really fault France too much in WW II. They took terrible losses in WW I (after the terrible losses of Napoleonic Wars). They did what they had to do (IMO).
Paul in KY
@Mandalay: He could be very cruel. Definitely had a 19th century racist mindset.