A few minutes until Bernie Sanders' event in Portland starts and the 19,000 person Moda Center is nearly filled. pic.twitter.com/iOPYUHyqu7
— Dan Merica (@danmericaCNN) August 10, 2015
In the interests of fairness. Late Saturday, criminal justice advocate / political activist / “proverbial glass ceiling smasher” Symone Sanders introduced Bernie at his Seattle rally, in her new position as national press secretary for the campaign. She seems to be a most excellent addition to his team, per the Washington Post:
Presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders, who has been drawing eye-poppingly large crowds on the campaign trail, on Sunday night attracted his largest audience yet: about 28,000 people in Portland, Ore., according to his campaign…
Sunday night’s rally in Portland followed a wild day in Seattle, where Sanders’s well-attended evening rally came just hours after he left another stage in the city where a small group of protesters aligned with the Black Lives Matter movement took the microphone from him. Sanders was scheduled to be the last speaker at that event, attended by several thousand people, at a park. He wound up not speaking.
Sanders’s newly hired press secretary, Symone Sanders, an African American woman, warned the crowd before Sanders took the stage in Portland of the possibility that his event could be a disruption there, too. She told the crowd that Sanders was about bringing people together and urged them to chant, “We Stand Together” if protesters took the stage. But that didn’t happen.
I asked Bernie after if he was worried about #BlackLivesMatter protesters. He shook his head, "Great night. Huge turnout. Very good."
— Dan Merica (@danmericaCNN) August 10, 2015
#BlackLivesMatter released their own statement:
Statement just released from #BlackLivesMatter on the Sanders protest Saturday http://t.co/gSX3fhd497 pic.twitter.com/6zhKoVahOY
— Brandon Wall (@Walldo) August 10, 2015
***********
Apart from the battles on all fronts, what’s on the agenda as we start another not-at-all-as-quiet-as-August-is-supposed-to-be week?
NotMax
A D or an F in Journalism 101, as what he actually spoke about is noticeably absent.
Baud
I think it would be cool if everyone on Sanders’ campaign team were named Sanders.
Anne Laurie
@NotMax: Detailed in the article, click over and read it!
mike in dc
First sentence in the third paragraph of the BLM statement is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: You noticed that too.
Oatler.
Portland’s the one city in Oregon that isn’t 95% deep-red Goldwater Nazi. I wish he’d come to the Rogue River Valley and meet with Art Robinson, Gentleman Scientist and ;pee collector.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I thought about starting a McCain-style rumor that Sanders was Sanders’ love child. But then I realized that someone on the Internet would take it seriously and tweet it. No way that ends well.
Schlemazel
I went to the caucus in ’07 not supporting Obama, he was to the right of where I wanted to be & given too much to centrist positions. If I wanted that I would have supported Clinton who I thought had a better chance of getting elected than a black man. Instead of the usual 30 people in my precinct there were 200 that night and 180 of them were there for one guy, Barack Obama. I looked around the room (and out into the hall!) and said “if this guy can move people like this I may be wrong about electability.” and I became a supporter. Sanders is more where I wish my President started from as far as positions but I felt like there is no way that American voters are going to elect a real live socialist in 2016. Then I keep reading about the crowds he is drawing, and not just in liberal bastions. Maybe . . .
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I think he does have a child out of wedlock.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Oatler.: I thought Eugene was a fairly blue city.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
My youngest was at the Seattle event in the park and was disappointed that he was not allowed to speak.
Is BLM doing this to any other candidate?
Oatler.
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne): So it is. The Rogue Valley is much further south, in the land of fire and no water.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
I’m really looking forward to going home in 50 minutes and then going to bed. I don’t have to be back here until 2pm Wednesday. Twelve shifts in 10 days gets old, even at this job.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Oatler.:
That is why I posted my comment about Eugene. I have a fair idea where the Rogue Valley is but don’t understand anything else you’ve written.
Maybe because it’s a little after 3am and I haven’t had enough sleep.
BillinGlendaleCA
@BillinGlendaleCA: Wikipedia sez it’s true, Levi Sanders, born 1969. Bernie wasn’t married to his mother.
Baud
@Schlemazel:
Obama also had institutional support. It was huge when Kennedy endorsed him. Maybe Sanders can pull it off, however. That’s why you play the game.
BillinGlendaleCA
I must have accidentally ingested LSD, both Joe Scar and Halperrin are making sense.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
About what?
NotMax
@Anne Laurie
Detailed? Pfeh.
Not even so much as a single quote from his speech.
Mustang Bobby
Coming back to the States today after four days in Canada. Did I miss anything?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Getting institutional support is a tad bit more difficult when you’re not a member of said institution.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Trump, the conservative reaction if another network asked the questions fox asked on Thursday…
NotMax
@Mustang Bobby
Nothing of any import whatsoever.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
His choice.
MomSense
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne):
After Netroots, O’Malley and his team met extensively with BLM and he crafted an excellent policy statement with much input. Clinton and her team have also been meeting with BLM and they are working on it. Sanders refused to meet with them until recently but yesterday his campaign released their draft racial justice statement. So it seems to be working. There was a bit of a back and forth with Karen Finney and Deray yesterday about Clinton campaign waiting and benefiting from what the other campaigns were doing but it seems Clinton campaign will act quickly. I also saw Deray saying that they are going to press O’Malley on how he went from actions as Baltimore mayor to his policies now.
I really don’t understand why it took Samders so long to have his campaign meet with BLM and I hope he is asked.
Now I hope he will work on his supporters because some of them went nuts with conspiracies and racism.
Kropadope
@BillinGlendaleCA: Sanders has caucused with the Democrats right along and has done a better, more consistent job of fighting for Democratic priorities than many registered Democrats.
@MomSense: BLM got him to put out a draft statement on an issue he was already engaged on. Good job?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kropadope: That’s not my point, read what I said again.
Schlemazel
@Baud:
If he can turn out actual voters at the caucuses that will mean something. Rally’s are nice & fun and all but I need to see people willing to ‘waste’ a Tuesday night to gauge commitment. If Bernie has it then I’ll get excited. I was planning on caucusing for him anyway but with not thought that he might actually take the nomination.
Baud
@Kropadope:
I’d be curious to see what efforts he undertook to fight for Obama’s election and reelection. If you have any links, I’d appreciate seeing them. No worries if not, I’m sure it’ll come up in the primary campaign at some point.
Kay
I don’t think billionaires truly have to fear an 80% tax rate, but I do think it’s clear they feel they need better PR:
I also give them huge credit for getting thru an entire op-ed without blaming public school teachers and/or labor unions :)
Baud
@Kay:
Progress!
MomSense
@Kropadope:
Why don’t you read what Symone Sanders has to say about it. I think the Seattle protesters had no idea he was working on anything because he wasn’t communicating. So they were keeping the pressure up and yes I do think he will not make the mistake of failing to communicate again. Symone doesn’t condemn the protesters and has handled this really well.
This was a completely stupid error on the part of the Sanders team but I’m pleased they seem to be getting it together now. Now they really do need to provide some guidance to their supporters.
Baud
@Schlemazel:
Yep. Proof, it is in the pudding.
Joel
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne): Bend, too.
Sanders needs to show that he can build a coalition like Obama did.
MomSense
@Baud:
He did make some statements about primarying Obama.
Kropadope
@BillinGlendaleCA: You miss my point; if national Democrats won’t support him based on his partisan affiliation, especially given that VT has no party registration anyway, they’d be turning their backs on a great partner.
@Baud: Yawn…
Baud
@MomSense:
So he is just like a Democrat.
Baud
@Kropadope:
Gotcha. Loud and clear.
Kropadope
@MomSense:
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kropadope: And yet the senior Senator and Governor are Democrats. My point was that it is MORE helpful to be part of an institution to get institutional support.
Kay
@Baud:
It really is progress. This op ed simply would not have been written prior to 2010 or thereabouts. “Value creators”! They even gave us a catchy phrase that sounds business-y!
I don’t know about their solution though. Tax credits. Of course.
Larry Summers has changed his mind too, based completely on self-interest- his fear of “social unrest”. Martin O’Malley made a specific campaign promise last week- he will NOT hire Larry Summers.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
That paragraph got cut out because the Op-ed was 200 words too long and they needed room for the Macy’s after Xmas sale.
Kropadope
@Baud: What do you expect from a low-profile Senator from one of the bluest blue states who disdains the whole fundraising game? What should he have done in those elections?
Thoughtful Today
PORTLAND WINS!-)*
“Shattering a day-old record, 28,000 backers of Bernie Sanders on Sunday filled all the seats and crowded into overflow areas outside the Moda Center (a.k.a. ‘the Rose Garden) sports arena where the NBA’s Portland Trail Blazers play.”
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/bringing-people-together
There was a sea of supporters outside of the Moda Center (‘the Rose Garden’ is what it used to be called and I still think of it as that, it’s a much prettier name).
Outdoor speakers were loud around the Rose Garden, easy for the thousands outside to hear the speech inside.
Some of the supporters live streamed video on their phones and were sharing the video in groups while listening to the public speakers.
*L.A.’s TURN TONIGHT, PASS IT ON:
Kay
@Baud:
The $15 dollar minimum wage is, I believe, what scared them. That’s a real shot across the bow for a place like Home Depot. When I first posted here about Fight for Fifteen some people in the comments said it was too high and unrealistic. Then it started to pass in some places.
Baud
@Kropadope:
Well, Elizabeth Warren went to Kentucky to campaign for Grimes. That’s the type of thing I would expect from a serious leader of a political party. Is there nothing you can find?
Kropadope
@BillinGlendaleCA: Well, you can get partisan nominations, which the Democrats had offered him in the past. I’m just of the mind that actions speak louder than labels.
MomSense
@Kropadope:
The racial Justice statement they released yesterday is a draft. Still working on it. Seems like they decided they needed to act quickly.
JPL
@Kay: Tom Levinson should put this on the front page, with the appropriate picture. If the Government gives them an incentive to increase wages, it will lower those on food stamps. Of course, it doesn’t do a thing to lower the deficit. The difference seems to be, one group is shamed while the other group is praised.
Baud
@Kay:
Good. They need to be scared. Fear is the best regulator.
JPL
Grumble, grumble, grumble. Why are we still talking about Trump and Megyn Kelly? Of I know, Reince wants to keep it in the news, in order to lower Trump’s polling numbers.
Both ABC and CBS led with the story.
Fred
Meanwhile you’re LIBRUL media says:
TRUMP TRUMP and TRUMP
Megan Kelly and TRUMP
maybe biden….
Chris Cristy and for sure TRUMP
oh yeah. that socialist fills another stadium but his hair’s messy so who cares
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
They were veering toward it, I could sense it, but wisely resisted. I look for it.
Their upper cut-off point for middle class is interesting- 80k. I think they get there by by their 80/20 split. They say the top 20% are doing well and everyone below that are treading water or drowning.
Baud
@JPL:
It is the most interesting thing going on right now.
Kropadope
@Baud: Did you miss that whole bit about “low-profile” and “disdains fundraising?” Because Elizabeth Warren doesn’t meet either of those descriptions.
As far as what I can find; searches regarding Bernie Sanders electoral activity in 2008 reveals reams of articles about how this isn’t 2008 and Sanders isn’t Obama, 2012 results mostly discuss Sanders’s own reelection with one article postulating a Sanders challenge that never happened.
Again, Sanders was barely known on a national level in 08 and 12 and lived in a safe D state where, during one of those cycles, he had his own election to run. What did you expect of him? ETA: Are you really going to fault him for waiting until what he saw as the right moment to assume a leadership role?
Baud
@Kropadope:
You are the one making the case that he’s just as good as a Democrat. I’m pointing out one area where he’s weak. I don’t expect anything from him. He presumably wants my vote, and these are among the many things I will take into account.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kropadope:
They do. Actions like, “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.” Point being, it’s hard to get the team behind you when you haven’t been behind the team. I like Bernie, but this is the reality.
JPL
@Baud: This is good news for Obama. At least, we are not getting daily updates on his golf game.
Kropadope
@Baud: So, would you rather have a Democrat who loves making war and explicitly racist appeals for voters? Because that’s your alternative.
Baud
@JPL:
Lame duck!
AnonPhenom
Because for all the talk about politicians being ‘Leaders’ what you really want in a democracy are politicians who are ‘Followers’ …of the public.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I did notice a limp in the video I saw of him on the golf course.
Baud
@Kropadope:
I haven’t made a primary vite decision yet. But if Clinton wins the nom, I’ll easily and enthusiastically support her. Same for Bernie if he wins.
And even if I decide Bernie is the better choice, it doesn’t mean he is perfect and beyond cricism. I hope he deals with his negatives better than you do.
Baud
@Kropadope:
And to add, O’Malley is also an alternative, and he is coming in to the left of Bernie on policies. Why he’s not getting more attention from liberals is beyond me.
Kropadope
@Baud: I’m dealing with you manufacturing phony-baloney negatives out of whole cloth.
Don’t talk about policy knowledge or stances!!! What did he do to support Obama’s successful election from his high seat in Podunk? That’s what’s important.
Thoughtful Today
By my measure Sanders has been a leader on scores of issues that I expect to be at the heart of the Democratic Party.
In my decades long view, corporatists control many of the establishment members of the Democratic Party. In some cases they’re the same people.
BTW
Obama campaigned for Bernie in Vermont as I recall. I don’t know when the youtube video I watched was dated showing a lively young Obama being excitedly greeted by some of Bernie’s Vermont supporters.
(looking for it now)
Zandar
@Baud:
Not counting on Bernie doing that, given past performance.
Kropadope
@Zandar: He could do what Hillary and all her supporters do regarding her negatives. Ignore them. Somehow, I don’t think that would go as well for him as for her.
OzarkHillbilly
Holy sh!t. Look at this plane: Hailstones batter Delta plane’s nose cone and windshield
beltane
@Baud: In 2008 there was a candidate in the primaries who I supported enthusiastically and wholeheartedly from even before the moment he decided to run. I donated time and money to this candidate, something I don’t ordinarily do. My candidate won, and I have never regretted my decision to support him.
This time around, I feel no such enthusiasm for anyone. I support Bernie 100% as my senator. Unlike most politicians, he has been extremely consistent in his position on key issues throughout his entire career. He does a lot of campaigning for Democrats in-state. Vermonters do not register by party anyway-there is not even a provision to do so-so the party affiliation thing is not much of an issue to me. His age, however, does concern me. I could also do without an open Senate seat here as one never knows which asshole millionaire wingnut with decide to run a vanity campaign with an undetermined outcome.
I would, of course, vote for Hillary in the general election, but I do not particularly like or trust her. This feeling goes back to her 2000 Senate campaign and is nothing new.
Thoughtful Today
Sen. Barack Obama Campaigns For Bernie Sanders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkli6UNtTyg
beltane
@Kropadope: Obama winning Vermont was never in doubt, not in the primary and not in the general. Instead, Vermonters campaigned for Obama in New Hampshire, where our efforts were more in demand.
Thoughtful Today
Bernie’s rousing introduction of Senator Obama in 2006 as “one of the great leaders of the United States Senate” had the Vermont crowd extremely excited:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkli6UNtTyg
Thoughtful Today
^
Powerful speech by Obama.
pamelabrown53
@Baud:
“I hope he deals with his negatives better than you do”.
This is a problem I have, too many of his supporters won’t brook the mildest of criticism or questions. They’re insufferable and if one doen’t praise Bernie to the rafters, one can be called a neoliberal, corporate Hillary shill. Now, Betty Crocker, I think, suggested we should separate the candidate from his/her supporters but I can’t help thinking about these “ambassadors” trying to persuade voters and GOTV. I also wonder if Bernie gets the nom. and has no $$$ to fight dark $$$ republican juggernaut. Jeb’s super pac already has 120 mil., throw in the Kochs, Karl Rove and ad infinitum and I think we’re screwed.
Anyway, I haven’t decided yet and so far no one thrills me.
Thoughtful Today
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA BERNIE SANDERS RALLY TONIGHT
MONDAY, AUGUST 10th, PASS IT ON.-)
Location & Directions: https://go.berniesanders.com/page/event/detail/rally/4jgdj
California for Sanders reddit channel: https://www.reddit.com/r/CaliforniaforSanders
More event info:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/08/1409977/-Bernie-Sanders-Bernie-Set-To-Rock-Los-Angeles-On-August-10-2015
Peale
@Kropadope: I don’t think what baud is getting at is a minor issue. I’m a little wary of his “disdain for fundraising” myself.
Kropadope
@Peale: So, do you think it’s OK that Congressfolk spend more time fundraising than legislating? That even their legislative activities are often driven by their fundraising needs?
Kropadope
@pamelabrown53: I’m not saying Bernie can’t be criticized. This particular line of attack, though, is pathetic.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Thoughtful Today: Wow, downtown during rush hour. No thanks.
Baud
@Thoughtful Today:
Thanks. That’s what I was asking for. That’s something, as opposed to “it’s irrelevant.”
debbie
@Kay:
Sadly, I don’t think this is more than a nice-sounding talking point. As an employee at one of the behemoths and having been stress-tested to almost over the edge, I’m hearing management saying they’ll be pivoting to focus on the remaining employees. When pigs fly.
ETA: The author of your piece was as Young-Rubicon. Just another Don Draper-style seduction.
Baud
@Kropadope:
To you. But I care about his ability to win a general election and to govern effectively.
Gimlet
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/09/1410408/-Seattle-s-Outside-Agitators-206-why-they-want-to-drive-a-wedge-between-BLM-and-Democrats
The instigators of a strident protest who drove Bernie Sanders from a stage yesterday were from a group named Outside Agitators 206. They created a Black Lives Matter Seattle facebook page just 2 days ago. Outside Agitators 206 seems to be a group that regards electoral politics as a inconsequential.
They focus on BLM and driving a wedge between BLM Movement and the Democratic Party. Their facebook page links to a site named Black Agenda Report run by a man named Glen Ford that include this revealing passage:
To succeed, the Black Lives Matter Movement must transform the politics of Black America. By definition, that means declaring war on the Democratic Party, and forcing Black politicians and activists to choose between the Party and the people’s struggle.
The Black Lives Matter movement has no institutional stake in the victory of either party, but is, in fact, locked in mortal political struggle with other Black people in the Democratic Party.
Baud
@pamelabrown53:
I still haven’t heard a policy based reason we should support Sanders over O’Malley, if policy is the only thing that’s important.
Baud
@Thoughtful Today:
@Baud:
I spoke too soon. That was Obama campaigning for Bernie, not the other way around.
Kropadope
@Baud: If not having been a “Democrat” while in the Senate will result in him not being able to work with Congress to conduct the nations business, assuming he gets the D nomination and is elected; that says a lot more about Congress and particularly Democratic Congresspeople than it does about Bernie.
Somehow, I don’t see that being an issue, though. Congressional Democrats will still have their objectives and they would still work just fine with Sanders, as they have for decades.
pamelabrown53
@Baud:
Exactly. What I hear is ideology rather than nuts and bolts and how we achieve it in this FUBAR congress.
Baud
@Kropadope:
Maybe. But he has to make the case. I’m not just going to assume it away.
Zandar
@Kropadope: Hillary ignoring BLM is definitely not helping her cause either.
Thoughtful Today
Bernie’s been working on policy for decades, he has a history and a record that is astonishing in it’s consistency. He’s developing increasingly detailed policies quickly.
I don’t recall when Hillary had her policies out in 2007.
But I’ve been listening and watching Bernie Sanders on a regular basis for, I guess a dozen years now, as have many of his fans. Thom Hartmann has him on record and that record is on youtube. CSPAN has him on record as well. There’s some ?198”s? CSPAN interviews of Sanders that are pretty amazing. (I’ll look for them)
You can also read and judge for yourself Bernie’s stated principles and policies: https://berniesanders.com/issues
Kropadope
@Baud: As far as O’Malley, he is incredibly suspect on criminal justice matters. Cooking the books, trying to appear “tough-on-crime.” He also has little to say on foreign policy.
Humboldtblue
This is utter bullshit. BLM have interrupted the man twice and forced him off the stage because they can, not because they have a message worth spreading. They can’t get into the fucking hall when Clinton is speaking and O’Malley means about as much to this campaign as Rick Perry does on the Republican side.
Twice now Sanders has been insulted and attacked by the World Star Hip Hop sideshow of the election season. All that is missing is the shaky, vertical recording and the screams from onlookers as angry, incomprehensible and increasingly self-defeating dipshits who think their sophomore year protest will work when the adults are in the room actually forming effective policy.
Fuck these clowns, they aren’t gaining any support they are simply turning away any potential allies who would actually be on their side in the political process. But no, not these fuckwits, they are beyond the political process and therefore useless and their message meaningless. They aren’t going to affect change and these stunts serve one purpose and one purpose only to allow them to make asses of themselves in public.
BLM has never helped anyone get a better wage or helped improve working conditions or fought for better compensation for employees. BLM has done fuck-all about income equality, housing or school funding and you know why BLM hasn’t done a fucking worthwhile thing about actual social change? Because they know that means actual fucking work in getting people elected to put forth the measures that lead to change and then getting the political support to ensure it happen. It’s a lot fucking easier to walk onto the stage on a candidate who actually has an extraordinary record of affecting positive social change and scream WWOOOOORRRRRLLLLLDDDDDDSSSSSSTTTTAAAAAAARRRRRR.
Fucking clowns.
Kropadope
@Humboldtblue:
I’m not exactly a fan of their approach either, but seriously?!?!?!?
Baud
@Kropadope:
No one has talked much about foreign policy yet.
O’Malley’s record is fair game, but I consider that an argument about the person, not policy.
Baud
@Kropadope:
We agree. I am happy.
Kropadope
@Baud: Discussing what O’Malley did in office is not about policy? OK…
Maybe my first response to you, dismissal, was the right one after all.
Baud
@Kropadope:
Policy is about what they propose. Record is about credibility. At least that’s how I classify things. But feel free to dismiss me. I couldn’t care less.
Thoughtful Today
“That was Obama campaigning for Bernie, not the other way around.”
I heard Sanders eloquently praise Obama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkli6UNtTyg
But yeah, Obama 2006 was amazing at electrifying audiences just by showing up, and that speech of his, wow. Fluid, powerful, exciting.
And listening to that audience it was hard to tell if they were cheering for Bernie or 2008’s Democratic Presidential contender ;)
Humboldtblue
@Kropadope: They aren’t serious about affecting change, they’re bullshitters throwing a public tantrum. They give no respect they get none, they are nothing more than the angry woman screaming at hapless McDonald’s employees because her fries weren’t hot enough. They have no goals, they have no agenda worth looking into, they have no idea what it takes to affect meaningful change in society. Fuck them, they’re clowns.
Kropadope
@Baud: So, the ACA, for example, isn’t a policy now that it has moved past the proposal stage?
Baud
@Kropadope:
It’s the fruit of a policy initiative.
Kropadope
@Baud: What about policy implementation? Or what is now current public policy?
Ian
@MomSense:
Let’s go find every irrational thing a Clinton supporter has done and force Clinton to apoligize for it. Wait, is that how this thing is supposed to work?
Baud
@Kropadope:
Future efforts are policy. Judging someone’s past record is credibility.
mike in dc
@Humboldtblue:
Is it, perhaps, possible to disrespect them without using racially freighted metaphors and analogies?
Kropadope
@Baud: So, you take the Republican approach to the English language? It is whatever you say.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Oatler.:
Newport would like a word with you.
Kropadope
Policy (n): a course or principle of action adopted or proposed by a government, party, business, or individual.
So, policy that has already been adopted is still policy.
Thoughtful Today
Black lives matters as an issue (or set of issues) deserves to be addressed and Bernie has added a powerful spokesperson in Symone Sanders to his team who is an amazing speaker and has been riveting in giving speeches before the 10 of thousands (15,000 in Seattle and 28,000 in Portland when you count overflow) of excited and supportive Bernie rally attendees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXbmwqCMRAY
Bernie takes Black lives issues seriously and he’s been blessed with her powerful voice. After listening to her only a few times I see her as a cornerstone of his communication’s team.
Keith G
@pamelabrown53:
Have you been around here when President Obama has been criticized?
I am afraid it is the nature of internet age political discourse where anger = orgasm.
Bernie, bless his heart, has been slow to adapt, AFAICT, because he never thought his campaign would puff out as it has. He has been a marginal but consistent voice for reform (in some areas and with some success) and he expected to be an effective voice hectoring HRC and her like to consider fighting for important economic reform/justice. I really like him, but he should not be our nominee because he cannot get elected to the presidency.
So we can argue about what Bernie meant or what he should do, or we can argue about Jim Webb’s media campaign. It makes no difference.
OzarkHillbilly
Tomato, tomahto….
msdc
@Gimlet: Interesting find, although that group is claiming they just republished the press release from Black Lives Matter Seattle (which also apparently has more than one presence on Facebook?). The BLM press release quoted above doesn’t exactly create a whole lot of daylight between the movement and the protesters.
All of this goes to demonstrate some of the glaring weaknesses of decentralized, leaderless, social-media-driven movements like Occupy and BLM – fragmented, uncoordinated, vulnerable to co-optation, given to grandstanding even when they aren’t co-opted.
MomSense
@Ian:
I’m on Bernie’s side in saying it has gotten out of hand because you do have to organize your supporters and teach them to be good surrogates for your campaign. This will harm him. I’m not talking about a few comments. There is a pattern and of course it is not all of the supporters. I do think Clinton’s team will organize her supporters because she has hired some of the same people who organized Obama campaign supporters.
Al Giordano has written some good pieces about this topic and he is definitely not a Clinton supporter.
boatboy_srq
Now Presenting Republicans this morning hat either Totenberg or Roberts (I can never tell them apart on the radio) bemoaning all the BLM and LaRaza agitation, and how Dems in general and Sanders in particular need to “reach out” (you really could hear the sotto voce “coddle”) to minorities to get the nomination. Some passing mention on how the GOTea events aren’t disturbed by the same because those groups have given up on the Teahad. Despicable Beltway VSPs are despicable.
Patricia Kayden
I would suggest that rally organizers have security take BLM activists off the stage if they try to comandeer any more of Senator Sanders’ rallies. I’m not with them when they disrupt allies and strongly disagree with their behavior in Seattle. That is not how you garner support for your cause, no matter how worthy it is.
Thoughtful Today
!
Bernie separates issues from personalities.
If an issue is serious in his estimation he unreservedly supports it.
Black lives have been brutally cut short, that needs to change, he supports that.
Kropadope
@Patricia Kayden: Someone posted an interesting link last night. The woman who commandeered the stage in Seattle was actually a Sarah Palin supporter.
mike in dc
@Keith G:
While Sanders’ original intent was almost certainly to push HRC to the left on economic justice issues, my impression is that Sanders’ supporters are supporting him not just to push Hillary to the left but because they’d like him to be the nominee. While I am certain that Clinton is likely the more electable of the two, it is less self-evident, in the post-Obama era, that Sanders cannot be elected President. There has been some polling indicating that, as his name and views are becoming better known, Bernie is becoming more competitive against potential GOP nominees, many of whom are much further to the right than he is to the left of the public. And the crowds are getting larger and louder.
Ian
@MomSense:
In 2008 Clinton’s direct supporters, her actual spokespeople, like Geraldine Ferraro Mark Halperin, and Linda Rosthechild, could not control the stupid things that kept flying out of their mouths. This was not Clinton’s fault beyond hiring those people. You are asking Bernie Sanders to control an audience without a microphone.
Betty Cracker
@Patricia Kayden: It’s early yet, and IMO, it’s still possible for the BLM movement to mature and grow. But it appears to be going the self-marginalizing Code Pink route. Oh well. I can support Code Pink’s agenda (ending wars and redirecting defense spending to human rights initiatives) without supporting Code Pink’s tactics.
@Thoughtful Today: Anyone who says Bernie Sanders’ most vociferous supporters can’t learn to present their message in a more positive and persuasive way should meet you. Well done on dialing back the initial hostility and taking the time to make the case for your candidate in a positive way.
Keith G
@mike in dc:I do not contest a thing you’ve typed.
I will add that while individual candidates can lose an election, they can not win them. Teams win elections – complex, highly evolved teams.
I guess, to be fair, I should postpone writing off Sanders until I see how he develops, nurtures, and leads such a team that is required to win. That was Obama’s fundamental genius in 2007-2008.
I just do not see this level of organizational complexity in Sanders, nor given his outsider status, I do not see such resources readily available to him (and again, were it so would he be inclined to use it?).
Edited to include reply link
ThresherK
@Gimlet: Good stuff; thanks for the link.
Kropadope
@Betty Cracker: I’m not sure if you noticed, but there’s plenty of hostility to go around.
Eric U.
@Thoughtful Today: Sanders now with UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH! Pretty funny
Tim C.
@Oatler.: Look, our rural whackadoodles aren’t any worse than in most states and the 4th and 5th congressional districts are represented by Democrats. (1st and 3rd are the Portland districts.) Portland is liberal to be sure, but the only place it gets real bad is eastern Oregon.
MomSense
@Ian:
I am not saying that Bernie’s supporters are his fault. I have no idea where you got that idea. I do think the HRC surrogates you mentioned harmed her campaign. I’m sure her campaign will be more careful this time.
I am not asking him to control his audience but his campaign can do trainings for his supporters in every state to teach them how to communicate and organize effectively. This isn’t reinventing the wheel. Talk to OFA people about our trainings. They were in person, one on one, Camp Obama, online, state wide, etc. You could attend one practically every day.
Cervantes
@mike in dc:
As is the second sentence in the second paragraph: their operational definition of “all candidates for Office” seems a little … arbitrary.
Joel
@Keith G: Even if Sanders were electable, I don’t see him as an effective governor.
Keith G
@Joel: Indeed.
Joel
HamNo is after John Cole’s heart.
Betty Cracker
@Kropadope: Of course, and if I notice a turnaround in someone who had previously been posting fact-deficient attacks on Sanders and his supporters, I’ll offer him or her a similar compliment. Just doing my part to elevate the tone! :)
Keith
In case anyone is interested, there appears to have been some scrubbing of polemic at Ring of Fire.
Original version:
Current version:
So, – no more “it’s frightening”, gone the gender-bashing.
No indication anywhere that the earlier version was actually edited to soften the rhetoric.
Betty Cracker
@Joel: HamNo is the only reason I have Gawker bookmarked. He’s right on this issue too, IMO.
Kropadope
@Betty Cracker: Gotcha, sorry.
mike in dc
@Keith G:
I do agree that he will need a more robust and organized operation in order to a) win the nomination and b) win the election. I would just caution against the electability argument generally, as we nominated the more “electable” candidates in 1984, 1988 and 2004, with less than stellar results. And, of course, we’re arguing the merits of a 75 year old Jewish eurosocialist candidate versus a 68 year old female candidate who has been vilified by the right and disliked by the press for over 20 years. Kind of an unusual position to be in historically speaking.
I also think that the infighting between Sanders and Clinton supporters is nothing compared to what it would have been between Warren and Clinton supporters. Just speculation on my part.
Joel
@Betty Cracker: He’s a fucking Lakers fan, but other than that, he’s okay. Greg Howard is my man at Deadspin, but Burneko, Magary and others can definitely be funny.
Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™
@Humboldtblue:
Did you miss the bit where seattle was a false flag operation?
And BLM has a duty to raise wages?
This is your metric?
Obviously the uppity causes you diress.
…
Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™
@Humboldtblue:
You use “they” in this comment in such a way to suggest that you know the group intimately, as if you have been a fly on the wall, or were one of the founding members who soured on the mission,..
From your obvious intimate knowledge of strategy sessions and the like, I look forward to more insight on what “they” want.
Thoughtful Today
Bernie’s got a larger level of organizational complexity to manage every time his crowd size leap-frogs everyone’s imagination.
15,000 people out for Bernie in Seattle was a very strong showing, 28,000 turning out to see Bernie in Portland yesterday, … !-o Wow.
And while I can’t imagine Los Angeles turning out more than that … we’ll find out by tonight:
https://go.berniesanders.com/page/event/detail/rally/4jgdj
Reddit has volunteers helping organize people, rides, ride sharing, updates on venue changes as larger crowds require larger venues these last two days in a row, amongst other things like sharing t-shirt designs, signage, and logos.
There are subreddits for individual states, reddit’s California for Sanders is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CaliforniaforSanders
And credit to, heh, ‘traditional’ online political organizing websites as well:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/08/1409977/-Bernie-Sanders-Bernie-Set-To-Rock-Los-Angeles-On-August-10-2015
Humboldtblue
@Provider_UNE_AndPlayersToBeHatedLater™: Here you go you blithering fuckstick, a quick click on a link provided above would have given your silly ass all the info you asked for but I’ll do it for you because you’re apparently as lazy (see what I did there you fuckwit?) with your fucking research as you are with your internet commenting. If you want social change you’re far better off working with the few people allied with your cause, but nope, instead you’ve got a worthy movement so bereft of actual competence that it can be co-opted by two knuckleheads with an afternoon to waste.
Bobby Thomson
@Kropadope: she looks really confused.
msdc
@Gimlet: Here’s some more information on the Seattle protesters.
I’ve been waiting for the professional ratfuckers to start backing some astroturfed BLM groups ever since Netroots Nation. Looks like some enterprising amateurs got there first.
gwangung
Yeah, I DefINITELY like Sanders more than his supporters.
eponymous coward
@Humboldtblue:
You did see the part where BLM gives zero fucks about political parties and political candidates at the top of the post you’re commenting on, right?
Maybe they’re not dealing with your pet issues in a way you approve of because of all these people dying. Given the history of the past 450+ years of white supremacy in the USA it’s probably a bit presumptuous to assume one presidential campaign that’s been a thing for all of three months is going to wash all of that away overnight.
Consider that Seattle’s police department is operating under federal court supervision because of its past history, regardless of how many liberal Democrats live there. Ponder where Oscar Grant was killed, also a bastion of elected Democrats. Remember the lowlights of Martin O’Malley’s career. Reflect on the crime bills of the 1990’s.
So the idea that somehow Democrats (and even progressives) get automatic ally status when it comes to the struggles of black Americans seems a bit hasty- there have been a lot of times where their needs have been subjugated to winning elections in fairly recent history. Seeing the spluttering rage of people like you just kind of confirms the decision not to offer it. Maybe if you did a better job of understanding their anger and realizing their priorities are centered on their own communities and not the white community you might have more empathy. I’d say the Sanders campaign is doing a better job of showing it than you are.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@MomSense:
I’m really glad to hear that the Sanders team has been meeting with (the real) BLM, because frankly his stubborn refusal to do so was what worried me. You can’t have a president who refuses to meet with concerned citizens, especially ones who are supposed to be on the same side. So if Sanders is learning how to do that better, that is a very positive step and one that makes me more likely to give him serious consideration as a candidate.
Shit like what HumboldtBlue posted above takes me one step back and away from Sanders, though. WTF, dude?
gwangung
@Mnemosyne (tablet): The most loyal segment of Democratic voters have been black women. The idea that their concerns are secondary or minor is ludicrous. The fact that they have, up until no, BEEN taken as secondary or on the back burner is fucked up beyond measure. You’re violating Politics 101 doing that.
rikyrah
@Kay:
They should be scared.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
Also, too, totally free advice for the Sanders campaign: if you have an anti-police violence speaker do an official five-minute speech before Sanders, you’ve basically taken the winds out of the sails of any takeover protester on the same subject.
You’re welcome.
rikyrah
@gwangung:
These are their husbands, sons, grandsons, nephews…..and now, like with Sandra Bland, it’s their daughters…
for folks not to realize how very very PERSONAL this is …that it’s LIFE AND DEATH….and, to try and minimize it…
sigh
RandomMonster
@Kropadope:
I saw a post on that, too — not just a former Palin supporter, but a lunatic Christian as well. Can anyone confirm? This woman might be seriously confused.
RandomMonster
A former Palin supporter? WTF?
White Trash Liberal
@Thoughtful Today:
You have sure changed your fucking tune, hotshot.
I don’t expect you to have the nads to say I was right and you were wrong, but I will take your sudden change in attitude towards social justice as a victory for liberal principles.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne (tablet): What “stubborn refusal to do so”? Sanders began discussing these issues with the (real) BLM supporter he just hired as his national press secretary weeks ago. He has met with AA social justice groups like SCLC. He was talking about demilitarizing the cops and changing police culture before the Netroots thing.
I can understand preferring Clinton or O’Malley’s approach to Sanders’, but I don’t understand the compulsion to paint Sanders as unresponsive or a johnny-come-lately on social justice issues, and I see that happening over and over in these threads, no matter how often people post evidence that refutes the accusations. It seems like some stupid Twitter feud gone 3D or something.
White Trash Liberal
@Humboldtblue:
I remember when you lost your mind over the mandates in the ACA.
These protest have made criminal Justice reform a ccentral talking point. Sanders FINALLY has put out a policy draft and brought BLM sensitive staff into the fold.
Your racist butthurt is just a happy side effect. When you step over the edge and go full-throated bigot while claiming you are a progressive, it helps others see the light and recognize our faults in this web of oppression.
So both fuck you and thank you.
White Trash Liberal
@Betty Cracker:
He canceled meetings and failed to put out a policy proposal. He is a johnny come lately. I’m glad he is finally connecting the dots, but he was stubbornly resisting that in favor of his campaign ideology that put economics as the panacea.
You were there in those threads. You were acknowledging this lack.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Betty Cracker:
Please point to where he put his policy proposal out “weeks ago.” Please also point to his meetings at Netroots Nation — all I heard about was him canceling meetings.
Like it or not, Sanders has been slow to respond. If he’s this slow to respond to allies, what will happen when he’s attacked by Republicans? You can’t wait a week or two to respond to attacks anymore.
Do you honestly think Sanders has done everything right in handling this? Because I sure don’t.
White Trash Liberal
@RandomMonster:
And what were her countertops made of?
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@MomSense: Thanks. I didn’t realize Mr Sanders had not done so.
Meanwhile, idiots are screeching about BLM in a How Dare They! frenzy.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Betty Cracker:
Also, too — really, I say I’m happy that Sanders seems to be responding to the pressure and you complain that I wasn’t happy early enough? WTH?
Betty Cracker
@White Trash Liberal: I know what I said, which is that Sanders could have have handled the Netroots incident better and that I hoped he’d learn from that. But he’s not a johnny-come-lately on social justice issues. He was talking about police brutality before Netroots, and he’s taken action since that shows he’s responding to BLM’s specific agenda — not just this weekend, in the weeks since Netroots. I don’t expect him to (or want him to) quit focusing primarily on economics — it’s his thing — but it’s not accurate to say he pushes economics as a sole panacea, before or after Netroots.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I didn’t say he put out policy proposals weeks ago or held meetings at Netroots. Here’s what I said:
I’ve linked to sources so you can verify the truth of the statements for yourself instead of making up shit I didn’t say to refute instead.
I don’t really care about your level of happiness with Sanders’ response — I was disagreeing with the notion that Sanders was dragging his feet in comparison to Clinton or O’Malley, all of whom initially got caught flat-footed by BLM too. You seemed to endorse that notion by agreeing with MomSense’s comment here.
I’m not some die-hard Sanders supporter. I think Hillary Clinton will be the nominee, and I’ve contributed to both of their campaigns. But I do think Sanders is being unfairly vilified, possibly because many of his supporters are assholes, possibly for other reasons I can’t quite grok.
As for my opinion on how Sanders has handled the BLM issue, I think Sanders could have handled the Netroots thing better. But I don’t blame him from walking off the stage in Seattle at all.
White Trash Liberal
@Betty Cracker:
He is late to the policy table with concrete proposals to address the concerns of a rather sizable bloc of the constituency he must seek to secure the nom. I have my theory why based on what Bernie himself has said about his campaign.
I am not here to hate on Bernie. I am here because the fact of white supremacy and black death is of the utmost importance to address. The GOP is in disarray, and we have a chance to push the party and the candidates to embrace solutions to this and other vital problems. And the BLM tactics of disruption and confrontation are working. This should be celebrated, not treated as uppity blacks interrupting the great white hope. That optic is just plain vile. And we as liberals/progressives should be decrying THAT tactic.
Those whole ally concept is repulsive. This is a human rights issue. It’s not about finding the right and bestest way to make allies feel happy in their tummies. If allies need to be soothed before acknowledging black lives, then that says more about the allies then about the protestors.
Humboldtblue
@White Trash Liberal: Oh go suck a dick you fuckwit. BLM has outlined their cause (I love the political prisoner line, makes me think they will demand the immediate release of the Asian Red Dawn, you probably know all about those freedom fighters you simpering cocknozzle) and instead of recognizing that they have solid allies both in key political positions and in non-political positions they get dipshits like you trying to make their case.
Snivelling little ineffective online warrior who has done fuck-all for positive social change but gloms on to what could have been an effective movement to try and polish their liberal bona fides.
Silly little guilty cracker. You’re nothing more than a firebagger in blackface.
Betty Cracker
@White Trash Liberal: There’s no question that the BLM protest at Netroots was effective, and good for them for effectively championing what I agree is a critical, life-or-death issue. I’m not one of the liberals who got the vapors over that incident.
But IMO, the Seattle protest this weekend was counterproductive as hell for the BLM movement. I’m not going to celebrate that as I think it was stupid and damaging to an issue I care about.
But as others have pointed out, BLM is a new, loosely affiliated movement. Maybe it’ll mature and grow, or maybe it’ll become like Code Pink, which is largely irrelevant. We’ll see, I guess.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Humboldtblue: Excellent work, privileged white person representing all of the Democratic party’s secret racists. You have single-handedly cost Bernie Sanders the election he wasn’t going to win.
J R in WV
@Humboldtblue:
And how do you know that BLM is who is taking the stage at Sanders’ events? Because they are Black and say so?
The post above yours seems to prove that there’s another organized group trying to mess with BLM by claiming to be BLM while taking actions that make BLM look really bad.
What a surprise, agitators claiming to be peace movement members starting violent riots! People claiming to be BLM members making BLM look like a violent movement, as opposed to an anti-violence movement!
There’s a huge and documented history of provocateurs being sent into popular movements to try to force the movement into illegal acts, or to commit crimes themselves to allow police to arrest everyone BUT the actual criminal, who escapes back into their life as a LEO, “serving and protecting”.
I would imagine BLM would be a top candidate group for being so demolished by the cops, who are, after all, the target of BLM, as the people who don’t think black lives matter at all, because then they wouldn’t be allowed to kill black people at will. Kill everyone at will, really, but a white teen or reporter doesn’t get the headlines right now.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Betty Cracker:
Net Roots Nation happened less than a month ago. So, really, Sanders addressed all of this “weeks” ago? Before or after NN, which was less than 4 weeks ago?
Like I said, I am glad that Sanders is making a sincere effort to address the concerns of one of his most important voting blocs and is making smart staffing decisions, but his zealous supporters who insist that he’s been a perfect advocate all along so BLM needs to shut up are making me dislike him again.
Add in the fact that the Seattle interruption may have been by another group with a different agenda, and it gets even weirder to see his defenders attacking BLM’s agenda.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I know you have a weird need to argue with a post and make up things other people said to argue against but you just got fucking schooled by a self-proclaimed cracker.
No one gives a flying fuck whether or not you like Sanders. When you were being a total douchebag in support of your preferred candidate last time around, did it ever occur to you to shut your freak show act down so as not to drive anyone away from Obama? No, it didn’t. So pardon me for not taking your fainting spells seriously. You are seriously fucked in the head.
White Trash Liberal
@Humboldtblue:
There’s a lot to unpack in that. I didn’t know there was a progressive LinkedIn where you could scour my resume or lack thereof. And I’m pretty sure my online handle expressly negates blackface.
I’m sorry protestors have you and other progressives in such a tizzy. Maybe next time they should ask for your permission and field manual.
Ruckus
@Kay:
It’s not too high. Not even close. I basically do the same level of work that my foreman did, in the same industry, 30 yrs ago. And I make the same hourly wage. And a very large number of people would love to make my hourly wage. But it is at least 50% lower than it should be, to keep up with inflation. I have decades of experience, a lot of very expensive tools, and I’m pretty good at what I do. I work in manufacturing and wages are part of the reason we don’t have the manufacturing structure we used to have, 50 yrs ago. And my boss is great, it is a good place to work and I’m happy. But it is indicative of the wage and education structure in this country that has not kept even close to pace with what’s necessary for both a vibrant economy and citizens.
Ruckus
@Baud:
I think it is probably Baltimore. His tenure as mayor was not a highlight. For me he is going to have to show me that he has changed and not just with talking points. I’d bet I’m not alone in my take on him.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
There you go again. In my previous response, I provided a quote containing my exact words and linked them to sources that back up the statements I made. I’m not going to play the game of refuting your inaccurate paraphrase of what I said.
And honestly, I think we’re mostly on the same side here. None of the candidates were adequately addressing the specific issues BLM brought to the fore prior to Netroots, but now they’ve made progress, which is a good thing. I see no point in isolating Sanders for special opprobrium since he’s been one of the better liberals on social justice throughout his career, but it’s not a point I’m prepared to devote hours to making.
If that speculation proves true, I predict we’ll see the very same people who implied that any criticism of the Seattle mic-commandeering duo is racist turn around and call people racist for assuming that the self-proclaimed BLM supporters are in fact BLM supporters. That will be weird too.
Tree With Water
Charles pierce at Esquire.com asks Hillary to stand and deliver: “..(By the way, HRC. Do you think this [Keystone] pipeline is a good idea or not? Please answer yes or no. Please answer, period.)”.
Is it really a wonder why Sanders is drawing big crowds?
While she’s at it, maybe Hillary can also explain her catastrophically wrong headed decision to support the Bush-Cheney plot to wage war, in the context of (just what EXACTLY) she’s learned as a consequence of their treason.
AdamK
Apparently one of the Seattle protesters may be an actual nutjob. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/08/blm-activist-who-shut-down-sanders-is-radical-christian-sarah-palin-supporter/?ref_widget=gr_popular&ref_blog=grails&ref_post=atheist
Plantsmantx
@MomSense:
Yes, they did, and as a black person, that gives me pause.
Eric
@Oatler.: Never been to Eugene, have you?
TealBomb
If only progressives loved black people as much as the love black votes.
Lotta racism in this thread.
Shame on the moderators who don’t challenge it.
Thoughtful Today
?
“Progressives” are a diverse group of people with diverse interests and issues.
Some progressives believe everyone should have free health care.
Some progressives believe everyone should have free college and University educations.
Some progressives believe everyone should be able to work 40 hours a week in decent jobs with regular hours with benefits and vacations.
Most progressives believe they should be safe from being murdered by anyone, let alone government authorities.
Some progressives, like Bernie, believe in all of the above.
I agree with nearly all of those progressive issues and hope policies and laws will be adopted to support those issues: https://berniesanders.com/issues