In her first interview, Mara Jacqueline Willaford, one of the Black Lives Matter activists who was responsible for the action that interrupted Bernie Sanders in Seattle, sat down to talk with Team Blackness. We discussed what she’s experienced as a result of the action, her involvement in the movement, and whether Hillary Clinton is sending her checks.
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kindness
Uhhhh….I don’t think this helps. Blanket statements that talk smack about whole groups are divisive. I admit I did not finish the podcast.
rikyrah
Love you on twitter, Elon. You’re holding it down.
Belafon
If they’re not getting paid by Clinton, then they’re obviously a false flag operation. Somehow.
//
AdamK
Isn’t this yesterday’s show, posted twice?
rikyrah
Antonio French ✔ @AntonioFrench
St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch won’t turn over Ferguson emails, lawsuit alleges http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2015/08/14/bob-mcculloch-won-t-turn-over-ferguson-emails.html?ana … via @stlouisbiz
AdamK
Yep, this is yesterday’s show. Also posted yesterday’s show on Kos.
AdamK
@kindness: Blanket statements that smack whole shows you didn’t even listen to aren’t helpful.
MazeDancer
Wanted very much to hear the interview with Mara Willaford. But couldn’t find it. This episode – August 13th – didn’t seem to have it. Maybe I missed it? Does anyone have the time code when it starts?
Went to web site couldn’t find mention of interview in any show notes.
Is it upcoming?
Sorry if I’m being technically lacking or overlooking the obvious here. Thanks for any info.
kindness
@AdamK: Lot of assumptions there. I stated I didn’t listen to the whole podcast. You stated I didn’t even listen to it.
Bless your heart.
Betty Cracker
Does anyone know if the BLM Boston folks ever released the video they took of their meeting with Hillary Clinton? I can’t seem to find it.
Belafon
Did you see where Jeb! lied about meeting with BLM: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/14/1412130/-Bush-campaign-lied-about-meeting-with-Black-Lives-Matter-activists.
Kropadope
@Belafon: Shocker…
MazeDancer
@Betty Cracker:
Since the last post on the BLM Boston Facebook is still the 8/11 one that ends with “We will post video as soon as we are able” think maybe vid not released yet.
Also, they retweeted someone eager to see it on August 12th https://twitter.com/brownblaze/status/631507523846041600
They haven’t tweeted since 8/13. And seems like they would feature it prominently in both places if it was ready.
Cervantes
@Betty Cracker:
To tide you over, a profile of Daunasia Yancey, one of their lead organizers in Boston.
Betty Cracker
@Cervantes: Thanks! Saw a short clip of her on CNN. She seems remarkably self-possessed and focused for such a young woman. (I was an addled nitwit at her age; still am sometimes!) I just hope Hillary didn’t use her super powers to erase the video.
Scorch
Did #blm approach the Sanders campaign and were rebuffed? Because if so, I understand. (I’m sorry if this has been asked too much).
Again, if blm tried to meet with Bernie’s campaign and were denied, then this is a correct liberal action I applaud. Otherwise it makes me feel it is poisonous inter-pain politics, like of the extreme Left … and personally, this not something I am interested in at all.
I disliked what I saw done to Bernie as much as anything I’ve seen in politics. Not the worst, but on the same shelf. I’m not sure what it all means yet. Every positive communication is welcome, so thank you.
I did like more recent situations where blm took it’s action to the source and not to an ally.
The police crimes are appalling. It is horrific, and the injustice isn’t new either. And YES the Democratic Party ARE at fault to some ample degree (blm broadsided one of the good guys though). In any case, I’m fully behind blm’s cause as it supports the issue of safety and respect for all. It’s vital to address right now.
So are some of Bernie’s issues … as may become apparent soon. The financial crisis was suspended, not cured. Let’s make sure we pull in the same direction.
Belafon
@Scorch:
Oh, my, god. He got interrupted. The worst thing in the world. I think you might need to adjust your scale a bit. Put petting a kitten at one end, and getting killed at the other.
The Democratic party needs them as much as the other way around. It’s totally reasonable for BLM to make demands for their votes.
Oatler.
Divide And Conquer, QED.
Another Holocene Human
@AdamK: Whu–how would they post today’s show today when it’s a recording and today it would be live but a recording would be … yesterday but it’s today they’re posting yesterday today ***head explodes***
Another Holocene Human
@Belafon: “Probably nothing.”
Another Holocene Human
@Cervantes: Another Newtonian!
eta: okay, Newton Public Schools alum, that’s the part that counts, not whether your ‘rents can afford Newton real estate … private school kids (met ’em) inhabited a different planet
scav
@Oatler.: Ignore and Go Under. Another option.
(It’s rather like speculating about any and all alternative possibilities is to be preferred over acknowledging certain people are going about something they care about deeply in the manner they choose to do so after considering history, context and options, rather than piously following the lead of their [inerrant] betters or being manipulated by nefarious others.)
Another Holocene Human
@Belafon:
Time for this article I found earlier:
Vanessa Williamson | August 13, 2015
Bernie Sanders, black lives matter, and the political wisdom of holding allies accountable
Shorter: Williams is for it, and details all the disruptive tactics GLBT activists have engaged in vis a vis President Obama just in the last few years.
(OTOH, didn’t always agree with those tactics or believe they really were all that significant to the big picture. Disruptive tactics are important when you’re trying to get heard and being shut out, like DREAMers, or during the AIDS crisis. When you have a president who had high level talks during his campaign about the big plan to kill DADT and DOMA forever, you just look like a petulant child who’d rather throw a tantrum than help the real activists do much more boring, sucky work on the state level for GLBT youth, adults, and seniors.)
Another Holocene Human
OFFS, FYWP
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/fixgov/posts/2015/08/13-sanders-black-lives-matter-williamson
article good
Another Holocene Human
@scav: Yeah, the CT has really killed me, although not as much as the flood of condescending comments on twitter and facebook from white progs towards Black people about how they do activism or concern trolling about how they vote. Yo, yo, if you’re a white prog, you better check those voter participation and exit poll figures because, Whitey*? They don’t look good.
*I can say this. I’m white. ;)
BobS
@Belafon: I think the scale was “adjusted” by the “as much as anything I’ve seen in politics”.
Is it possible to voice “demands” without acting like a bunch of spoiled adolescents?
And I still haven’t read or heard an answer to a question I’ve had since Netroots, the same question that Scorch asked — was the Sanders’ campaign first approached in a more conventional manner and disregarded, or did BLM go straight from zero to tantrum?
Thoughtful Today
Bernie had hired Symone Sanders, a Black Lives activist herself, somewhere between the Netroots interruption and the Seattle interruption (as I understand it).
Bernie had been working with Symone on better addressing racial justice issues before the Seattle interruption:
https://BernieSanders.com/issues/racial-justice
Cacti
The need for a movement such as BLM becomes apparent each time one of their erstwhile “allies” laments the tone in which they say that their lives matter.
Another Holocene Human
Interesting in the Boston Magazine article the activism lineage from the LGBT rights movement to #BLM. I wondered about some of the bullets on their list of demands, but that makes more sense.
mtiffany was right about the strong similarity in tactics and strategy.
It’s funny, I’m in the labor movement, and we have Civil Rights movement veterans trying to train us!
It’s all asymmetrical warfare.
Another Holocene Human
@BobS:
Scroll upupupupup to the top of this page.
See who posted it?
Okay, click on the link and go to his website.
He does podcasts. There is a podcast. A post Netroots Nation 16 podcast. A post NN16 podcast where he, Elon, explains, to the best of his knowledge since–despite what White Twitter would have you believe–he was tied up with a TWIB party, party cleanup, being really tired, and then dealing with some lowlife stealing his cameras, what happened at NN16 to spark the Martin O’Malley and Bernie Sanders confrontation.
Or you could like ask Tia Oso. &shit.
BobS
@Cacti: Help me out here — I’m trying to remember where and when myself or Bernie Sanders did or said anything to indicate their lives didn’t matter.
Daffodil's Mom
Cacti,
What. You. Just. Said.
I liked her, where she’s coming from, what she said at that protest and what she said during the interview.
People of color are dying every day at the hands of our “law” “enforcement”, and we whites dare to criticize how they attempt to address it…
without lifting a finger ourselves.
Frankly, how dare we.
Cacti
@BobS:
Jeez, we know black lives matter, but do they have to get so shouty about it?
True story, over at DU(mb), I saw a poster with a Che Guevara avatar complaining about BLM being disruptive.
Cervantes
@BobS:
Remember the flak directed at Jerry Rubin in ’68?
Not everyone does.
jl
@BobS: I think Sanders said a few things in appearances and interviews that were troubling, such as his response in an interview when asked about racial justice a separate issue that ‘demographics is not my cup of tea’, which set off alarm bells with me that he might be as dismissive of some important issues in his campaign as Nader was in his. (Edit: sorry, but no time for me to find link right now, but it is on youtube. I’ll try to remember who was interviewing him.)
Sanders was pretty one note on his platform of economic justice, and did not explain much how he thought the issue of racial justice, as its own separate issue, and economic justice fit together.
And I am not anti-Sanders. I’ve given his campaign a few contributions.
I don’t see that Sanders’policy platform or plan of action on substantive work on issues has changed at all. But building a winning coalition is more than having the right policies and doing the right work behind he scenes, you have to communicate effectively too, and I don’t think Sanders was doing that. So, did Sanders ‘deserve’ the disruptions? Yeah, probably he did, IMHO. Anyway, by now apparent that all the Democratic and at least some of the GOPers will get attention from Black Lives Matter.
The disruptions caused hardly a blip in broad voter awareness in the grand scheme of things. Seems so far to have produced some constructive response from O’Malley and Sanders. I think some people are making way too big a fuss over what has happened so far.
BobS
@Another Holocene Human: Save me some time since I’m not particularly interested in listening to the podcast at the moment (no offense to the gentleman, but the one time I did listen there was so much extraneous banter I got bored and left) – did or didn’t they approach the Sanders’ campaign?
BobS
@Cervantes: I was with my parents at the Democratic Convention in 1968 — I remember a lot of “flak” getting thrown at him and anyone else breathing the same air as the police. But I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
Applejinx
Good job getting Sanders to incorporate #BLM. Bernie’s my Senator. He is no frail little Tumblrina. So long as he grows to incorporate the issues he must, please cut him some slack for canceling an appearance etc: it’s politically impossible for him to apologize to you, he did the best he could and seems to be taking up the torch.
I hope he’s shown his quality, because he needs you as much as you need him. We have to act on these issues, it’s an emergency coming to light.
Sly
@BobS:
“Of course black lives matter. It’s just that Bernie Sanders’s completely unencumbered path to the White House matters more.”
This has been the message of an overwhelming number of Bernie Sanders supporters. It’s dumb as shit, racist as fuck, and they shouldn’t be surprised that their objections to “tone” and “tactics” – from the supporters of a candidate who opens every speech with a call to revolution – are met with the scorn that they deserve.
The standard level of obtuse white privilege is intolerable enough. Fanboy politics, which turns every primary season into a submoronic mire of liquid shit, makes it a hundred times worse.
Thoughtful Today
Symone Sanders, who had been hired before the Seattle protest, gave a brief keynote speech at Bernie’s Seattle rally that same day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXbmwqCMRAY
^ It’s an incredible, rousing speech, that specifically addresses Black Lives Matter issues in front of the 15,000 Bernie supporters.
BobS
@Sly: For the record, I’m not a Sanders’ supporter — I think he coasts a little too much on his ‘socialist’ laurels with regard to both foreign, e.g. his staunch support for Israel in it’s ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, his support for war in the Balkans and the current US meddling in Ukraine, etc, and domestic policy, e.g. the Clinton ‘3 strikes’ crime bill, No Child Left Behind, etc. On the other hand, neither am I impressed by a bunch of juvenile assholes who are demanding of a respect they aren’t prepared to show others.
And by the way – fuck off.
Thoughtful Today
Symone Sanders gave a 2nd speech about Black Lives Matter issues the day after the Seattle protest in Portland, Oregon before a Bernie Sanders rally of 28,000 people.
There were 20,000 people inside the stadium and another 8,000 supporters outside the stadium listening and cheering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6vxodT5FxY
MazeDancer
Anyone heard the interview with Ms. Willaford? Doesn’t seem to be on this podcast.
Any one have some good info on how to hear it? Thanks!
msdc
@Another Holocene Human:
Shorter: I was against these tactics when I thought I had the standing to question them, but I’ve got too much riding on my attempts to be seen as an “ally” to notice the obvious similarities to BLM.
Cervantes
@Sly:
Could you quote one out of this overwhelming number?
Thanks.
singfoom
Hmmmm, tone/civility vs dying in the streets. It’s so hard to decide which thing to be concerned about more…..
Hint: You should care more about people dying in the streets than whether said people highlighting said dying in the streets choose to interrupt someone else.
Maybe, just maybe the people dying in the streets (FOR YEARS) are tired of having lip service paid instead of action taken.
msdc
@Another Holocene Human:
I feel like I’m getting political advice from Poochie.
If you can cut the “ironic” minstrel act for a minute, you might want to look at those exit poll figures too. They show that minority voters and white progressives need each other.
Cervantes
@BobS:
Just wondering if you find similarities between (a) what Rubin and company did and the response thereto; and (b) what BLM did and the response thereto.
That’s all — and you may have inferred that the question is not necessarily meant for you in particular.
Cervantes
@msdc:
Do I want to know who or what Poochie is?
A guy
Did Timothy mcveighs life matter?
scav
@msdc: Agreeing or disagreeing with specific tactics in specific instances, let alone changing one’s mind over time, has jack shit to do with recognizing people’s god damned right to chose the tactics they choose to. But, nooooo, the only reason anyone would support people acting as agents in their own right is currying favor for the scare-quote ally badge.
Sly
@Cervantes:
Check any thread on the topic at DKos, Democratic Underground, Crooks and Liars, etc. – anyplace where primary politics is going to be a hotly discussed topic, where Sanders supporters have a significant presence and who have congealed into a lynch mob against Marissa Johnson since the Seattle protest.
@BobS:
So you’re just a regular asshole, then. Good for you.
Thoughtful Today
“20 ways Bernie Sanders has stood up for civil and minority rights: From fighting segregation to standing against police violence, Sanders has a record of fighting on these issues.”
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/22/20_examples_of_bernie_sanders_powerful_record_on_civil_and_human_rights_partner
…
“2. Being Arrested For [fighting for] Desegregation: As a student at the University of Chicago, Sanders was active in both the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC).”
“In 1962, he was arrested for protesting segregation in public schools in Chicago; the police came to call him an outside agitator, as he went around putting up flyers around the city detailing police brutality.”
http://time.com/3896500/bernie-sanders-vermont-campaign-radical
Cervantes
@Sly:
So the answer is no, you can’t quote anyone?
OK.
A guy
Did John Allen Muhammad’s life matter
Cervantes
@A guy:
Gesundheit!
A guy
Did Dennis Rader or Anthony Sowells lives matter
BobS
@Cervantes: The Yippies seemed capable of differentiating allies and enemies (like Wall Street, the Pentagon, GM, etc). And as political theater (which I don’t think Netroots or Seattle was intended as) they were funnier. So no, probably not.
BobS
@Sly: Yeah, “a lynch mob”. You’re quite the special kind of asshole, aren’t you?
msdc
@scav:
Of course BLM has that right. Anyone has that right. But that doesn’t carry with it the right to freedom from criticism, because no such right exists. (This is one of those articles of faith on the left that gets trotted out every time, say, some idiot CEO feels the heat for their racist or homophobic comments, and then promptly forgotten when the criticisms are less convenient for us.)
If you want to make this about “people acting as agents in their own right” then you’re changing the topic.
Also, AHH’s increasingly desperate attempts to be seen as one of the cool kids? Probably not the best hill to die on.
BobS
@msdc: So I’m not the only one who’s reminded of Gene Wilder in Silver Streak when I read some of his comments?
scav
@msdc: Look, I’m not changing why I engaged in the conversation on this topic in this thread. You asserted that someone was only supporting BLM in an attempt “to be seen as an ‘ally'” which I found pretty petty and low and assuming all sorts of things. I’m not dying on anyone’s attempt to be seen as anything. If you’re using the subject to engage in personal vendettas oh, goody.
A guy
Did The life of John Wilkes booth matter?
It's Not The Fall, It's The Landing
TWIB Prime used to be a good podcast, but I’ve stopped listening regularly.
For one thing, Aaron Rand Freeman hardly ever gets to talk any more. It seems lately that whenever he starts to say something, Elon will interrupt him to talk about something that someone else has just Tweeted. Which is a shame, because Aaron’s comments are smart, on point, and often funny.
Even worse, a good portion of almost every podcast now seems to be given over to the “Elon and Imani Complain About Stuff People Said On Twitter” show, which might be OK for two minutes, but gets boring when they go on and on about it, giving a play-by- play of their interactions. Who really cares that some idiot with 20 followers trolled Elon, or about the specifics of his responses?
Also, I wish Elon would stop using the word “space” as an all-purpose noun, instead of employing more precise words like “organization,” “meeting,” “website,” “media,” or whatever, depending on the context. Calling everything a “space” is vague and repetitive.
msdc
@BobS: Wow, you caught the racial pantomime and the 40-year-old slang in one reference. Nicely done.
Thoughtful Today
The podcast disappointed me. And I love talk radio.
Now I’m off to catch up on last weeks Larry Wilmore Nightly Show:
http://www.hulu.com/the-nightly-show-with-larry-wilmore
El Caganer
@A guy: Was it over when the Germans bombed Seattle?
BobS
@msdc: Thank you.
Sincerely,
Whitey
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@A guy:
You’re comparing convicted murderers. To murdered black Americans, why?
Thoughtful Today
Wow!
Wilmore’s Thursday show is worth discussing: http://www.hulu.com/watch/831138#i0,p12,d0
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
Why isn’t BLM protesting Obama? That would clearly be an awesome place to start: power.
Scorch
I appreciate there is discussion and not flame throwing, that is impressive to me, since I have seen this dynamic grow on ‘the left’ where some group proclaims itself to be on the liberal side, but instead uses the ganging up and demonizing and intimidation routine. Whether out of ignorance or as a deliberate power tactic I’m not sure.
It’s the fault of Ralph Nader, probably. Malicious free-attacks just became a ‘thing’ when scapegoating him, and frankly, just my opinion, the ‘left’ progressive movement is now unable to well engage with those outside their own circle of concerns, however valid those concerns may be. It’s learned wrong lessons.
Though I don’t know for sure at this point, it seems blm is a symptom of something I’ve seen and don’t like. I don’t believe in leftism, which is just a mirror of rightism … and it’s bullying and division and intolerance. Fail fail fail. Those are “take-over” tactics. It could be that we have a problem, or rather, those who co-opted the name ‘progressive’ have one. In the larger sense, though, recognize that this disunity has made problems for everyone.
Strange to me that I cannot seem to be given the answer to the only question I’ve had about the initial blm protest (did they try to work with Bernie and were rebuffed?). Instead I’m told to go to some site and watch POD’s.
I am of the mind that blm are attracting bullies who want to have another ‘smackdown’ like they did with Nader. Not interested. I do think that blm totally missed the optics of this when storming Bernie’s speech.
If the idea was to play hardball with liberals, as it seems, then the blm protest and aftermath do make sense … I just want no part of it. A simple apology from blm would signal good faith and drive the bullies away from it (they can’t take cooperation and humility), but, that isn’t happening and that is my concern.
Sean Shamblin
You guys really should listen to what Benjamin Dixon has to say about the whole BLM Seattle thing.