If you are a glutton for punishment, you probably watched the marathon that was the GOP debate on Wednesday. Most agreed Carly Fiorina came out on top with Marco Rubio and Chris Christie also doing well. Rand Paul, Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Scott Walker and Ted Cruz didn’t do themselves any favors. One of the best moments included Christie calling Trump and Fiorina narcissists:
“While I’m as entertained as anyone by this personal back-and-forth about the history of Donald and Carly’s career, for the 55-year-old construction worker out in that audience tonight who doesn’t have a job, who can’t fund his child’s education, I’ve got to tell you the truth. They could care less about your careers, they care about theirs,” Christie said. “Let’s start talking about that on this stage and stop playing — and stop playing the games.”
At least we’re calling a spade a spade.
Team Blackness also discussed updates on the Dylan Roof case and Matt Damon’s apology.
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kindness
I thought tickets to the debate were $1000 a pop sponsoring the Reagan Library. Somehow I don’t expect that there would be ANY construction workers in that audience, employed or not.
boatboy_srq
…. maybe Christie shouldn’t have blocked a certain tunnel and kept that worker from being laid off…
OzarkHillbilly
As a 57 year old carpenter I can say with certainty that the only thing a 55 yr old construction worker is looking for is retirement.
Roger Moore
It takes one to know one.
Anoniminous
Currently the standings are:
Trump 34.2% — up a point
Carson 18.5% — up a point
Jeb Bush 7.6% — down a point
and
Fiorina 2.5% — up a smidgen
We will know more on Tuesday after the late week and weekend polls have been completed.
jl
i think Fiorina was at, or very near, the top for serial rapid fire lying, so fitting that consensus is that she did best in the debate.
But looks like Trump was perceived by likely GOP primary voters who watched the debate as performing second best, and is still on top by a wide margin with 36 percent supporting versus 12 for second place Carson.
Jeb? is tied for for sixth place, with Christie, at 6 percent.
GO{/RNC problems is that if you grift of the con long enough, the con starts grifting off of you.
Poll: Fiorina Wins Debate, Trump Still Leads
morningconsult.com/2015/09/poll-fiorina-wins-debate-trump-still-leads/
jl
@jl: And interesting that the favorable/unfavorable profiles of Jeb? and Christie are very similar. Jeb? has second highest unfavorable, slightly below Paul and just above Christie.
Forgot to say I found the poll at a TPM post:
Post-Debate Poll: Fiorina Won The Night, But Trump Is Still Way Ahead In The Race
talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/carly-fiorina-donald-trump-post-debate-poll
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
I haven’t been following the Matt Damon thing online, but my jaw did drop in the moment, like Does he really not realize what an entitled asshole he sounds like? He had a kernel of sense in the fact that, yes, it is the director’s and producer’s responsibility to make sure there’s diversity in front of the camera (which is where Girls got in trouble — Lena Dunham was not properly instructing her casting director that the streets of NYC needed to look like the streets of NYC, not the streets of Mayberry circa 1955). But, no, Matt, it’s not an either/or. It’s a both/and. You need diversity both in front of *and* behind the camera.
On the other hand, a huge part of the calculation of who gets to make their film is on that show who is going to have the most entertaining on-camera meltdowns and make themselves look like an asshole, so that’s something to keep in mind about their final pick.
The Thin Black Duke
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): And thankfully, even though it was the usual non-apology, Matt Damon did have to apologize, because the blowback was so bad.
Cervantes
Except it was a cheap shot because Trump and Fiorina were both responding to a question.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@The Thin Black Duke:
My spouse pointed out in the moment that Damon is one of the show’s executive producers and could easily have had that moment omitted, so either he didn’t realize just how bad it made him look, or he was willing to look bad in order to publicize the show. Could be a little of both.
The sequence was definitely cut together to make Effie Brown look really good in comparison since she kept her cool, so I think there was at least a bit of calculation on the show’s part.
Waldo
They also could care less [sic] about what Christie was doing the day before 9/11, but good luck getting him to shut up about that.
Elizabelle
Was thinking about blogging and that shitshow of a GOP debate, and then Bobo’s ridiculous column today (Feel the Carly/Rubiomentum) and thought:
For his own good. If he was worried about the toll it was taking on his health, imagine having to write about the GOP fail parade.
We all assumed it was because he didn’t want to write about the Clintons, ad infinitum, for a year or two.
Maybe it’s that he had a better sense of just how crazed the GOP was going to be, and that even he could no longer mount a defense of conservatism.
** Yeah, I realize many of you join me there, for various reasons.
Woodrowfan
@OzarkHillbilly: As a 57 year old carpenter I can say with certainty that the only thing a 55 yr old construction worker is looking for is retirement.
but we may have to move retirement to 70, or even later, because, you know, shared sacrifice, etc.
Seriously, I’ve noticed the talking heads/Villagers pushing this idea are not the ones who are doing a job that wears you out physically. They can sit in front of a camera and yammer away until they drop dead (or even later in the case of George Will) without any problem other than more frequent bathroom breaks.
Mandalay
I just didn’t understand why Christie was spewing nonsense like “It’s not about me. It’s about all of you…” and “Because leadership is not about me, it’s about our country…” and “tonight is not about us, it’s about the people in the audience”.
Imagine going to an interview, and when asked to explain why you want the job you humbly tell them: “It’s not about me, it’s about you”.
His handlers must be telling him take this faux-humility approach, but it’s mindless; if you are running for president a debate is a job interview, and you must give people specific reasons to vote for you over anyone else.
Sad_Dem
@Waldo:
FTFY
Mark
I was too drunk after watching the kids table portion of the debate to remember anything about the main event.
Patricia Kayden
@Mandalay: By now, I assume that Christie and his few supporters know he’s dead in the water. Why he’s continuing his campaign is beyond me. I wouldn’t be surprised if his political career ends with a jail term for the bridge shutdown scandal.
Sad_Dem
Esquire and the New York Times are at long last are describing the Republican debate in fitting terms: lies, distortions, detached from reality in frightening ways, utterly unsuitable for the White House, etc. Jeb, your brother didn’t keep us safe. The opposite is true. Vaccines work. Global warming is real. Building a border fence and kicking millions of people out of the country in short order are utterly, fantastically unrealistic. Planned Parenthood isn’t evil. And on and on and on. Everything they talked about and the manner in which they did so has more to do with pathology than anything resembling the qualities of leadership. That so few in the media say so, and that so many voters lap it up, is deeply disturbing. It isn’t funny anymore, if it ever was.
JustRuss
@Woodrowfan: Funny how people who go to work and have underlings kissing their asses every day don’t understand that the people kissing their asses would like to have a few years respite from that before they die.
benw
Fuck the stupid debate. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. Did anyone know that next Wednesday is the day of apocalypse for some of the cranks out there? Apparently, particle physicists are in league with the anti-Christ:
Seriously. CERN even made a FAQ page detailing how they do NOT plan to end the world on September 23. My favorite Q and A:
Baud
Chris Christie to construction workers:
Elizabelle
Don’t ask, don’t tell, wingnutz!
I’m sure he’s well liked in all quarters.
I love that Nobama.
Baud
@benw: So they addressed the wormhole controversy but not the spiritual portal issue.
Very interesting.
smintheus
And meanwhile we learned that one of Rand Paul’s top advisers is a Yob.
Mike E
@Anoniminous:
Damn…my fantasy numbers are all taking a shellacking!
Cervantes
@Baud:
Hey, this is a family web-site.
Mandalay
This story has slipped under the radar:
Redneck blogs are outraged at the sentence over a “victimless” crime, and the media are understandably focusing on the noose. But that is unfortunate, because if you read the small print, there was also something else that got him sent to jail:
Have fun in prison asshole.
Baud
@Cervantes: Nah, we only act like children.
benw
@Baud: Oh, so it’s a controversy now? Great. Wormholegate? CERNgahzi? There’s other Q and A’s in the FAQ that deal with the spiritual portal and the earth-gobbling black holes “controversies”, my clever friend.
trollhattan
@Sad_Dem:
Yup, now is anybody listening? I’d like the candidates to talk about that time Reagan kicked down That Wall himself, defeating Khrushchev and ending communism’s reign on the planet.
Cervantes
@Baud:
If only!
Davis X. Machina
@Elizabelle:
Remember, Obama didn’t mean it.
Oh, sure, he ended DADT.
But does that matter?
trollhattan
@Mandalay:
He sounds nice.
trollhattan
This is bound to make some wingnut pates explode.
Sorry, did I say “bound to?” Very first comment.
Baud
@benw: I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong. All I’m saying is that we should teach the controversy.
benw
@Baud: You’re getting more presidential every day!
Baud
@benw: I hope David Brooks likes me.
trollhattan
@Baud:
That will revolve around whether you have a very nice home in a correct neighborhood. Also, too, not in an out-of-touch liberal enclave, as defined by Mike Huckabee.
bystander
@Elizabelle: The Lame Duck Kenyan-in-Chief strikes again. Thanks, Obama!
Roger Moore
@benw:
The best argument against freaking out about what CERN is doing is that our planet is regularly bombarded by cosmic rays orders of magnitude more energetic than anything CERN is planning on producing, and presumably has been bombarded with them for billions of years. Our planet is still here, which shows that particles of that energy aren’t going to destroy it.
Anoniminous
@Mike E:
It’s all part of a Cunning Plan© … wait for the unleashment of UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH!!!
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Does that mean you favor including Pastafarian beliefs in our schools? If so, you have my vote. BTW, can I be Presidential Science Adviser?
Elizabelle
@Davis X. Machina: He failed us on the public option too.
And damnit. Where is my jetpack?
Elizabelle
@Roger Moore: I’ll colander for Baud, if he is a Pastafarian.
Or even private in his religion (or lack thereof).
oldgold
In assessing this debate’s impact on the GOP primary voters, it is a mistake to pay attention to the establishment pundits. As has been repeatedly proven during this election cycle, they don’t have a damn clue. Listening to these pompous and privileged twits is about as instructive as forecasting the upcoming winter weather by measuring the thickness of the fuzz on a caterpillar’s back.
Elizabelle
@oldgold: Are you going to make us go to Free Republic? Or Red State?
We’ve already been to Town Hall today, about the jackhole Catholic dentist/congresscritter who’s boycotting the Pope’s speech to Congress. And DougJ made us read a Bobo column about iCarly/Rubiomentum. It’s been a rough Friday!
But you’re right.
Maybe we need to find and read the local reporters and skip the big leagues. They got nothing.
trollhattan
@oldgold:
It’s hard for me to not try and compare it to 2012, but hell if I can figure out who this year’s Willard is. He was always there as a steady #2 while the others rose and fell like a cicada hatch. They’ll “take out” Trump, Carson will eventually have to open his yap and not one of the others seems to have a chance, but one of them will eventually be The One. It’s a head-scratcher as to who.
Cervantes
@trollhattan:
What makes you think it won’t be Trump? How will “they” take him out?
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
Which should be enough to tell you that a 2012 comparison is flawed. There’s no 2016 counterpart to Romney, and there was no equivalent to Trump in 2012. Those who ignore history may be condemned to repeat it, but those who rely on flawed historical analogies are bound to be surprised when things work out differently from their predictions.
Gimlet
@Cervantes:
Begun, it has.
Donald Trump canceled his appearance Friday evening at a major campaign stop for the GOP presidential field in South Carolina as he faces criticism from both Republican and Democratic candidates over his failure to address claims that President Obama is a Muslim and “not even an American.”
Thursday’s incident drew criticism from the 2016 presidential field that Trump should have corrected his supporter’s claims.
“At the end of the day, this is a defining moment for Mr. Trump,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) told MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell in an interview. “The man in the audience who asked that question needs to be put in his place.”
Graham added that he would not have tolerated similar behavior and that Trump should apologize for not objecting to the men and their accusations.
Trump’s decision not to attend is significant. The event is a big landing point for Southern conservatives three days after the 2016 Republican presidential pack met in a heated debate airing from Simi Valley, Calif., on CNN.
The front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination has repeatedly defended himself against charges he is not a true conservative during campaign stops earlier this summer.
Trump leads the race, with 30.5 percent, according to the latest RealClearPolitics average of polls.
beltane
@Gimlet: It looks like Il Trump is being persecuted. Since when has a Republican candidate put a teabagger voter in his or her palce?
oldgold
Could the 2016 Willard be Willard?
trollhattan
@Cervantes:
Trump polls well, Trump gathers crowds, Trump has yet to have a single vote cast for him. He’ll topple under a combination of his own hubris and the combined efforts of those in the party who want him gone…yesterday if at all possible.
Elizabelle
@Gimlet: I think it was smart for Trump to cancel. He can avoid the relentless questions and suck some of the air out of the event by his absence.
Have stayed away from the news today, but it was Trump every single time I checked in for a moment. (If not a commercial.)
The Obamas have got to be enjoying their martinis tonight and laughing over the GOP “deep” field and how feckless is cable news. Would like to be a fly on the wall as they discuss this past week.
And we “met” Ahmed Mohamed and his
hoax bombclock this week! Bet the President smiles every time he thinks of him. I know I do.Gimlet
rawstory.com/2015/09/irving-police-chief-admits-cops-knew-ahmed-mohamed-didnt-have-a-bomb-when-they-…
Who does this guy think he’s fooling?
“Once it’s determined that this is just a clock or just a piece of electronics, why then the arrest and all of that?” he asked Boyd. “That’s very hard for folks to understand.”
“I get that. I understand the concern,” the chief responded. “The officers pretty quickly determined that they weren’t investigating an explosive device. What their investigation centered around is the law violation of bringing a device into a facility like that that is intended to create a level of alarm. In other words, a hoax bomb — something that is not really a bomb, but is designed and presented in a way that it creates people to be afraid.”
“Right, but he never called it a bomb, right?” Hayes countered. “He just kept calling it a clock. I mean, it never came out of his lips, he never did something or started showing it around saying, ‘Look at this bomb I have.’ He said, ‘Look at my clock.’”
“There definitely was some confusion and some level of information that didn’t come out immediately,” Boyd said, adding that in many cases, someone who would make a “hoax bomb” would not be likely to admit to doing so to police.
“The officers made the decision they did with the information they had with what they thought was right at the time,” Boyd responded. “We are clearly going to review this. We want to always look at ways we can enhance and have a better outcome. There’s a lot of decision points, there’s a lot of alternatives that they have available to them.”
trollhattan
@oldgold:
He’s tanned, rested, all elevatored-up and those shoulders are ready for Air Force One to land on them any day now. He needs to do it before Lady Ann’s sell-by date.
Davis X. Machina
@Elizabelle: It’s crucial not to look at what politicians do — which after all you can see — and focus instead on what they really think — which you cannot.
And then make your decisions based on the latter.
Amir Khalid
@trollhattan:
There is definitely no comparing this cycle to 2012. There was no one like Trump back then.The token woman candidate was a kook, the token black man a clown. The establishment’s man Romney wasn’t as inept as Jeb and Scott. There was not the rebellious mood against the party’s career-politician class that there is now. The party is in uncharted territory now.
trollhattan
Holy shit.
Gimlet
@Amir Khalid:
The word’s gone out and the echo chamber is busy spreading it. Rubio’s the man!
trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
To be honest it’s deeply troubling that the nominee might be selected in a panic and thus, he/she has an actual shot at becoming president by simply slipping through the machinery. Based on what I’ve seen from this bunch not one is remotely qualified and more than half are flat out mentally unstable.
Mike J
@Gimlet: (quoting TX cop)
Remember kids, as a cop, the dumber you are, the safer your legal ground to do any fucking thing you want. As long as you believe something to be true, no matter how far fetched, you can arrest or even kill anybody, provided they aren’t too important.
Gimlet
buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/marco-rubio-obama-and-democrats-to-blame-for-a-shutdown-over#.rnd2Orzn4…
“The point is this, on the Planned Parenthood issue: The people who are threatening a shutdown is Barack Obama, and his allies in the Senate,” said Rubio. “What they’re arguing is: ‘If the federal budget does not fully fund Planned Parenthood, I will veto the budget, and hence shut down the government.’ That should be the message. Instead, it’s always the reverse, ‘the Republicans are going to shut down the government.’
“No we’re not,” Rubio said. “We are in support of funding the government fully — just not giving any more money to this one organization that was just caught on video dismembering unborn children! Or, in one case, a child that had already been born alive, as Carly did very well last night, outlining and describing the video.”
Rubio said would be “absurd” for Senate Democrats to hold up government funding over Planned Parenthood.
“So I don’t understand why we accept this argument that we’re the one’s shutting it down,” he said. “They’re the ones shutting it down! It would be a Democratic filibuster and a presidential veto that would shut down the government, and it would be for the purpose of supporting one organization. And no one can tell me that Planned Parenthood, funding Planned Parenthood as an organization, is such a high priority that we have to do it, otherwise we won’t fund government. That’s absurd. And that’s the position we should have put them in.”
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
I’m actually starting to wonder if we’re going to get the bizarro world version of the 2012 campaign. In 2012, there was a strong establishment candidate and a whole series of crazy fringe candidates trying unsuccessfully to take him down, with each spending a while at the top. In 2016, we may see a strong crazy fringe candidate and a whole string of establishment candidates taking turns trying unsuccessfully to take him down.
jl
@trollhattan: Kasich may be the establishment person to worry about. He can make the case that he is remotely qualified, his record in Ohio can be made to look not awful without outright lying about it. From some angles, if the light is just right, he can be made to look moderate. Probably the money people will be reluctant to back him because he hasn’t bowed and scrapped and kissed their ass.
His policies would be almost as bad as the rest though, so one to worry about.
I hope he has made himself so obnoxious to the mega-donors that they will not back him until the other more obeisant candidates they back have flamed out, and GOP name has been rendered so toxic by then for the general, it will be too late.
And, if Trump is starting to go down, he will cause a lot of damage going down, and unless the GOP treats him with kid gloves, even if he doesn’t break his pledge to run third party, he can leave his base support very unhappy and unenthusiastic about the eventual nominee.
MomSense
@benw:
Well if we survive that we can look forward to the collapse of th economy that is supposed to take place in October. It has something to do with the moon and only happens every 100 years. This is going to be YOOGE and make 2008 look like nothing in comparison. My locksmith is persuaded that he will benefit because people will be desperate to secure their stuff when the shit hits the fan.
Amir Khalid
@Gimlet:
Y’know, I’m just not feeling it.
@trollhattan:
I agree with you, the Republicans do risk winding up with some random person from the back seat of this cycle’s Klown Kar as an accidental nominee. Gilmore/Pataki 2016!
jl
@Gimlet: Rubio is criticizing his party for doing an even worse job of trying to shift the blame than the previous shutdowns, and shutdown attempts.
Problem is that shifting blame that way is incompatible with pandering to their base into a frenzy to boost turnout.
So, what’s a person to do? Dilemmas, dilemmas, that the poor GOP has to face each day, the woes of the challenge of governance. Poor Johnny Bones.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: Ahmed Mohamed has such a sweet smile.
Mike E
@Anoniminous: When Tim Tebow enters the race, you’ll see.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
I believe in the separation of state and carbohydrates.
John Revolta
@Gimlet: Rubio to Dems: Stop hitting yourselves!!
Calouste
@Roger Moore:
Correctified.
There are two post-debate polls so far. One has a somewhat unbelievable tie for first between Trump and Fiorina at 22%. Then Rubio 15 Carson 12 Bush & Cruz 6.
The other one looks a bit more in line with pre-debate polling with some clear Carlymentum:
Trump 36 Carson 12 Fiorina 10 Rubio 9 Cruz 7 Bush & Christie 6.
We’ll wait for the explanation of how this is all good news for Jeb!?
Sad_Dem
@trollhattan: It seems like nobody is listening. The blather about poll numbers or whatever goes on like nothing’s wrong, like Trump never claimed to be investigating the birth certificate issue and how that alone makes him a fantastical clown unfit for office, like Jeb didn’t say that maybe Margaret Thatcher should be on the $10 bill, and how that statement alone shows he is so stunningly obtuse that he should be laughed out of the room by a class of 11th-grade U.S. history students, who could come up with a list of American women who might be worthy of consideration, because Jeebus forbid the words “Harriet Tubman” should pass Jeb’s lips, how Carly Fiorina lied, how Chris Christie lied, how Ben Carson is a nut (why can’t we just say he’s a nut? Why?)….
Roger Moore
@Calouste:
Obviously this is good for ¡Jeb! because he’s the tortoise and they’re the hares. He’s carefully pacing himself, not getting himself in the spotlight so early in the campaign that voters will get tired of him or learn all his dirty secrets. And he hasn’t started spending his ¡¡UNLIMITED SUPERPAC CASH!! yet.
benw
@Roger Moore: And that the LHC has been running at the same energy for months and not blown us up yet. The current nuttery involves the CERN logo looking like a secret 666, a statue of Shiva on the CERN site, the current hippie pope being the False Prophet, Jade Helm, and some dippy numerology around the number 23, to predict a secret plot by LHC scientists to open a wormhole or a dimensional portal to hell to release the anti-Christ next Wednesday.
@MomSense: your locksmith sounds like he’s onto something.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: Wow, it must be hard to hold your tongue.
Hob
@benw: No spiritual portal? Well shit, so much for ny vacation plans.
Elizabelle
@jl: I worry that the megadonors want to win more than they want a classic “yes man”.
benw
@Hob: I think the spiritual portal and the wormhole to hell are the same thing; it’s not a *good* spiritual portal. So if you’re vacation involves some Orpheus cosplay, you could still be all good.
Bobby Thomson
@trollhattan: Trump sure is looking like Romney,while the rest try to play musical chairs – the difference being that Willard was usually #2, while Trump has been #2 only in a metaphorical sense.
Bobby Thomson
@Gimlet: a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what have you.
Joel
@Gimlet: If Trump slides, it’s because the base are bored of him, not because of any gaffe.
A guy
Does team blackness have an idea how to stop the epidemic of black on black murder
Zinsky
Kris KrispyKreme is a bloody fucking genius! Now if the fat fuck can just stop ingesting 8,000 calories and risk blowing out his laparotomy band like a blown bicycle tire. But seriously, we can’t afford that slob and his filthy brood holed up the White House, pouring down Mt. Dew and ramming Oreos and Cheetos in their filthy gullets like they are going out of style. We will all be wheeling around wheelbarrows full of dollars from Zimbabwean hyperinflation caused by printing money to cover KrispyKreme’s catering and re-upholstering bills!