According to this report.
When Sanders wins NH: Hillary is in free fall!
When Trump wins NH: Uh… who came in 2nd and 3rd? Maybe 4th?
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) February 10, 2016
Final tallies, especially for the rest of the Repub scrum, will be somewhat delayed by “unexpected turnout”. Including the traffic snafu in what local stations called a “well-to-do, somewhat upscale bedroom suburb”…
Line up to 2 miles long of people still waiting to vote in Merrimack. #NHPrimary https://t.co/8TbvD5PI7n pic.twitter.com/YBurFHT2jJ
— WCVB-TV Boston (@WCVB) February 9, 2016
Needless to say, “officials decided” that the polling station would stay open until every car’s occupant got to vote. We’ll see if (which) of the GOP’s best-of-not-winners choose to complain about that later…
ETA:
In completed counties, Democratic turnout is 13 points lower than in 2008; GOP turnout is 12 points higher than in 2012
— Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) February 10, 2016
lamh36
raven
lamh36
Again, I think this is because alot of folks just think Hilary’s got this. I know in conversation I’ve had, alot of folks have said…Hilary will be President. When I say ok, but don’t forget to vote in the primaries, a good bit basically don’t really care, cause Hilary’s got this.
So primary turnout could support Sanders in places where his folks are more fired up for primaries
Baud
@lamh36: Similar to Iowa.
raven
@Baud: Iowa is near Kansas and Mimimimimimimi. . .
dmsilev
Dare we hope that the Marcobot will be able to recycle a classic line from dear old Joementum and boast about finishing in a “3 way tie for 3rd place”? (i.e. “fifth”).
Corner Stone
Anyone who says HRC isn’t “good at this” has no fucking clue what they are talking about. She’s not a brilliant retail politician but she gets this, and it is clear.
lgerard
poor Ben Carson gets the New Hampshire flounce
2%
Mike J
@dmsilev:
Bush and Cruz are withing 30 votes of each other. Rubio is 1,000 votes back.
Corner Stone
MSNBC is the fucking worst. It’s just the worst garbage possible.
Just Some Fuckhead
Congrats to Clinton for beating expectations.
Irony Abounds
Damn shame Uncle Joe didn’t run. Hillary having trouble putting Bernie away just shows she has a glass jaw and was ripe for the picking.
Corner Stone
Maddow, Lawrence, Andrea, Schmidt, Matthews, Bri-Wil with his very bad joke attempts.
This is amazeballs how bad they all are at punditing.
Benw
There once was a Senator named Sanders
Who wanted the US to look more like Flanders
He ran for president
It set a socialist precedent
And then he won big in New Hampshire
Corner Stone
@Just Some Fuckhead: She got beat by double digits. As expected.
Just Some Fuckhead
Sanders turns me off with that hoarse growl and Brooklyn accent. Can’t imagine having to listen to that for four years.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Corner Stone: Pipe down, BernieBro.
Corner Stone
@Irony Abounds: Joe Biden ran about elebenty times. How many times was he voted as the D nominee?
Baud
@Irony Abounds: Do you think Joe would have taken some of Sanders’ supporters?
WarMunchkin
@Benw: Now that you mention it – first time a Jewish person and first time someone who called themselves a Socialist won a U.S. Primary? Or did Huey Long win something or the other?
Gin & Tonic
@raven: First album I bought with my own money.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: tv dinner by the pool. . .
Elie
@Corner Stone:
I pray you are right, bro. I have major spilkes though until I see her rise above the barriers of not just the Bernistas but her media message. She is a strong lady and I am set to go with her. WA state have our caucus in March and I am going to stand for her..
Corner Stone
@Just Some Fuckhead: She can’t win, dude. Deal with it. The white yoots have spoken!
JPL
@Irony Abounds: If memory serves me, I seem to recall Uncle Joe not being a great campaigner. just sayin
Elizabelle
@Corner Stone: Thankful I don’t get MSNBC. Done with NBC products. They suck, and probably give us communicable diseases.
Watching CNN, from my hotel room. It’s that or Fox. Bernie speaking.
Renie
its NH means nothing. Hillary will win it all
Interesting how the media does say her 2nd place (which was expected) means she is in disarray but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place republicans are ‘winning’
truly crazy times
Elizabelle
@Elie: I’m voting for Hillary this week, absentee in person ahead of Virginia primary. Love Bernie; so glad he’s in the race and will keep giving him $$. But Hillary has my vote.
lamh36
So…open thread then…back to lurking from politics for right now.
Anybody seen this: Report: Browns lied about Manziel concussion to cover up his drinking
Manziel hitting his girlfriend, Browns covered up for him…but yeah sure let’s keep talking about Cam Newton, he a sore loser…dontcha know…
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Corner Stone: I can think of two that are probably worse.
@Irony Abounds: yeah, his two previous runs where he peaked in the single digits suggest this was the year for the Senator from MNBA who used to brag about writing the Iraq AUMF with John McCain
Cacti
Well, on to Nevada…
Where Bernie gets to talk about why he teamed up with Chuck Grassley to tank Ted Kennedy’s immigration bill.
Elie
@Irony Abounds:
Man, we are at the second whitest and smallest state. Bernie has to make some major inroads in black and latino pops to do this. Maybe he can but Hillary has to show her stuff — which she will. Too early to give up.
Just Some Fuckhead
Got my fingers crossed that Bern lives through this speech. He keeps gasping.
MomSense
@lamh36:
Doesn’t say good things for the revolution.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: We were gonna get them for a dance after the basketball game but my best pal warned me you can never tell how many will show up…sometimes the guy in the fur coat doesn’t show up and sometimes he does show up only he brings a big bunch of crazy people with him and they dance all over the place. None of the kids at my school like these Mothers…specially since my teacher told us what the words to their songs meant.
Elizabelle
@Renie: Screw the media. They’re not credible.
I was impressed with Hillary’s remarks tonight. She’ll be a great president.
Central Planning
I find it interesting that both the D and R winners are both ahead of the #2 person by about 18%
I’m pretty sure we could start a conspiracy meme with that….
Irony Abounds
@Corner Stone: He never ran as Vice-President with the country getting a better feel for him. He also never was the front-runner like HRC was in 2008 who lost what should have been a shoo-in. And to answer Baud, I do think he would have taken some of Bernie’s supporters, or at the very least knocked HRC out and been far more palatable than HRC.
TallPete
@Corner Stone: Trump might say she got schlonged.
Marc
@Renie: a 2 way race is different from a 9 way race. A 20 point loss is also not beating the spread.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: They are exactly what you expect them to be. MSNBC has really hackified the space they were supposed to own.
sidhra
@raven: be a loyal plastic robot for a world that doesn’t care.
NotMax
@Elizabelle
CNN? Oy.
Stream C-SPAN on the computer. Or turn off the TV and find a news radio station to listen to.
Baud
@Just Some Fuckhead: Oh man, my fear is that Bernie dies from exhaustion and then the rumors really start flying.
Irony Abounds
@Elie: To be clear, I think Hillary still will win because Bernie is just too far left. But if an old Brooklyn born Jew from Vermont can essentially tie her in Iowa and rubber boat her in New Hampshire, it shows there’s definitely a lack of love for HRC.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Corner Stone: True, Brian Williams and Andrea Mitchell on the same set is in a class by itself, as is the boiling, lidless pot of id that is Tweety. I take it he’s on the hate side of his his attraction/repulstion obsession with HRC?
Benw
@WarMunchkin: well, Obama won a bunch of primaries, and he’s a bigger socialist than Bernie!
Corner Stone
@TallPete: He might also call someone a pu$$y. Again. And then we can watch pundits so deeply moved by that naughty language than the fact that the entire crowd was near orgasm at the idea of someone doing “worse” than waterboarding to other human beings.
SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel
@Elizabelle:
Yup. I’ve given money to Bernie, but I early-voted for Hillary today.
MomSense
@NotMax:
Or music and a cup of tea. We pigged out on quesadillas and now we have food comas.
schrodinger's cat
@Benw: Really? I thought he was Republican lite and a friend of the banksters? Isn’t the One True Progressive going to deliver us from Wall Street?
Brachiator
I had hoped that the other GOP contenders would have finally kicked Jeb to the curb, but he will be around at least through South Carolina. The money men have to be sweating worse than Baby Rubio to see Trump doing so well. He frankly surprised me after some of his odd antics the last week or so.
Clinton and Sanders continue to do little for me. Clinton’s remarks about promising to work hard just emphasizes her plodding wonkiness and lack of an inspiring vision. And Sanders continues to be that lovable eccentric who finally gets to talk about his favorite hobby. Unless he can do something to really break out I can’t see him hanging around much past South Carolina.
Bill E Pilgrim
What’s all this about pools closing in New Hampshire, way too flippin cold to be swimming up there.
Corner Stone
@Irony Abounds:
If he got 500 votes total from people of color or minority from both states, combined, it would be amazing. Are there 500 dusky people combined in both states?
Peale
@Corner Stone: which is why I really can’t see how Dems would be so hurt by the primary rancor that they’ll just sit home. But I could be wrong. But progressives and liberals can be pretty peculiar about such things.
Corner Stone
Love that free college idea. Love it!
Marc
@Corner Stone: Is this the reverse of the old line that only white votes count: now only minority votes count?
Seebach
LTNS, I think Clinton is probably more electable in the general, but she really needs to stop running as a Wall Street neocon republican. Did she ever apologize for that iraq war thing yet?
Corner Stone
@Marc: If that’s how you want to see it, friend.
Davis X. Machina
@Irony Abounds: Why wouldn’t he do well in NH? Every D candidate from a neighboring state has won in NH, except Ted Kennedy in 1980.
(In ’04, Kerry (MA) beat Dean (VT).)
Trentrunner
I guess the coveted Kissinger endorsement doesn’t carry the weight it once did.
AMONG DEMOCRATS. Fuck, Hillary really is tone-deaf sometimes.
NotMax
Cut it short, Bernie. It’s not the venue for the stump speech.
Cacti
I got a fundraising mailer from Ted Cruz. How the **** did that happen?
delk
Boy, that picture of the traffic makes me grateful I can early vote. I go to the Chicago Board of Elections in the loop on a Saturday morning. Never had to wait.
Corner Stone
@Trentrunner: Sigh.
Peale
@Cacti: you haven’t been feeling the Bern and are probably impressionable.
? Martin
I’m not convinced Sanders can win this nomination, but it’s a pretty fun thought experiment to think of what the political narrative would become should he be elected president. From ‘permanent Republican majority’ to ‘socialist mandate’ in a decade?
JohnO
@Corner Stone:
Well said. Her problem is being unable to communicate sincerity; in addition to her “retail politics” problem 25 years of baggage and some of it is bound to be heavy, plus 25 years to make legitimate mistakes make for quite the burden that simply comes with her history. But she’s forgotten more about this game than most of us have ever learned.
It’s gotta be SO weird to be Bill, who worked the room so effortlessly and effectively.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Next contests:
Saturday, February 20: Nevada (D) South Carolina (R)
Tuesday, February 23: Nevada caucus (R)
Saturday, February 27 South Carolina (D)
Super Tuesday March 1st: 12 contests (3 weeks from today)
South (7) Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia,
North (3) Massachusetts, Minnesota, Vermont,
West (1) Colorado
East (1) American Samoa
Not much fun until the end of the month.
? Martin
@delk: Agreed. California is supposedly terrible at everything, but I’ve never seen anyone stand in line to vote here.
NotMax
@delk
Keep in mind that a good portion of the traffic is likely from those taking advantage of same-day registration prior to voting.
Frankensteinbeck
@Irony Abounds:
Those are the specific states where he can do it. I’m told Nevada is also on the very short list of states Bernie leads or is competitive in. The thing about Iowa is that it was one of Sanders’ best states. And he didn’t win even that. The Democratic primaries have started in Sanders’ stronghold. Iowa and New Hampshire are not random states that reflect the rest of the field. They are some of his best, and he couldn’t carry them both. Once you hit South Carolina and Super Tuesday, you hit states that are average, and he’s losing badly in them.
p.a.
@Benw:
Gene Debs begs to differ.
Cacti
@efgoldman:
I dunno. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jerrah Jones didn’t throw some money at him.
Corner Stone
@JohnO: Gah, c’mon man. She’s been slagged and bagged for 25 years. She could say that kittens are cute and she likes to hear them purr and she would get her ass handed to her by a number of pundits and others. That speech she gave tonight rang through with sincerity and a solid message. And she’s been giving those speeches for months now.
Bill was of a different time and I think he needs to dial himself down to the outer edges of this campaign.
Renie
a lot of new names here tonite bashing hillary
thought we only had our main troll R2R
soon we will have Baud! trolls hanging out
Bill E Pilgrim
You’d think that would be one place they’d have monitors.
(slinks away)
NotMax
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
American Samoa is east?
Of Japan and Australia, yes.
PaulW
just sayin, the real scary thing is Trump can run the early GOP primaries a lot of which are Winner-Take-All like Florida.
Link to Yglesias’ take on the GOP failure to stop Trump http://www.vox.com/2016/2/9/10955728/new-hampshire-results-trump-winning
Anne Laurie
@Corner Stone:
“Only if you count the Caribbean/Hispanic immigrants working in the construction or hospitality industries.” Or so I was told, by a Dominican now living in Nashua.
Corner Stone
Who the hell wants to move out of a rent controlled apartment in NYC?
Seebach
I’m also not so sure why Clinton has a lock on black and latino voters when her husband put the finishing touches on the mass incarceration program.
PaulW
@Bill E Pilgrim:
You were waiting DECADES to use that punchline, weren’t you?
? Martin
Cruz just passed ¡Jeb! for 3rd.
Renie
bernie is first jewish person to win a primary
(upton sinclair first socialist to win one)
we see history tonite
Bill E Pilgrim
@PaulW: Centuries!
Well, one and change, anyway.
Corner Stone
@Bill E Pilgrim: That’s…that’s…that is…huh…
jl
@? Martin: waiting in unreasonably long lines to vote puzzles me. And I agree, I’ve lived in a working class lower income, and very poor inner city, mostly minority, neighborhoods in CA. And I never saw a line more than ten people. Ever. I don’t understand why people put up with it.
If there were any justice, would a slew of SCOTUS decisions shutting that stuff down. Or, maybe there are but nobody cares?
Eric S.
@delk: we are lucky. We can vote often in Chicago. Baud! has 3 vies from me already.
Tom Q
@Frankensteinbeck: What would be the equivalent states for Hillary — that, had the first two contests been there, she’d have had a huge demogrpahic advantage? West Virginia, probably; maybe a Southern state. Arkansas?
Mike J
@Cacti:
And why his campaign posed as union members with fake credentials to harass people at work.
Cacti
@Seebach:
Really? Please tell us all about this new and fascinating information.
Does it involve a crime Bill that Rep. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) voted “aye” for?
Corner Stone
“To Infinity! And beyond!!”
Irony Abounds
@Davis X. Machina: Yeah, but this “neighbor” is a rather obscure Senator from Vermont, who wasn’t even a registered Democrat until recently, who is running against the highest profile Democrat out there in the state that gave her a comeback win back in 2008. The neighboring state excuse is extremely rare (and of course that doesn’t explain Iowa). Look, I’ll vote 10 times for Hillary against the Republican asshole that prevails, but Hillary fans just don’t get how much a large percentage of people really don’t like her. Fair or not, if she becomes President it will mostly be because of how much they hate/fear the other side. Which concerns me because it is so much better to be a candidate people are excited about voting for (see, e.g., Obama), rather than the candidate people accept out of fear of the other guy (see, e.g., McCain and Romney).
Baud
@Renie: Oh cool.
Peale
@Corner Stone: you heard one speech. Others heard big time banker fraud who sat by while her husband destroyed America and will never say she regrets her Iraq war vote and we can’t forgive her she’s so stubborn why won’t she concede already I want someone who fights for me and doesn’t think so much about what it will take to convince me to like her because I never will.
It wasn’t what she said. You have to read her breaths and pauses.
PaulW
@Seebach:
Wondering if there were other things Clintons did in office that were pro-minority support. It looks like Bill defended affirmative action and better hiring practices during his tenure http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Bill_Clinton_Civil_Rights.htm
And of course, Bill was nowhere near the level of jerkass towards minorities the way the Republicans have been since the start of the Southern Strategy.
Ella in New Mexico
I’m so sorry, Hillistas. I know this hurts.
kc
@Renie:
I’ve never seen your name before.
? Martin
@Seebach: As I understand it, blacks and latinos really don’t trust Democrats because elected Democrats generally do fuck-all for minorities. Better than Republicans, but that’s about it. Clinton is known, her positions are known, her allies are known – Sanders isn’t. Perhaps not the enemy you know, but something like that…
JohnO
@Corner Stone:
Oh, I agree! And I think we’re just coming at the same point from different angles. For some reason, the way she comes across it would seem somehow obsequious and, well, insincere for her to say she likes purring kittens. *I* would believe her, but for sure the Villagers (and I do NOT underestimate their influence, but try not to make too much of it anymore either…this blog has a lot more influence on me than Mark Shields) and many voters just wouldn’t see her kitty comments as coming from the heart. It’s reminiscent of Cruz’s craptacular ability to be hated. It’s built in somehow.
ellennelle
don’t know if anyone else has noticed this, but bernie’s margins in the rural counties were pretty large, one at 43%, and closer of course to the overall in the burbs.
so far, at least.
make of that what you will.
Princess
I think that if Bernie does well in NV, then Clinton has real problems. Nevada should be out of reach for Bernie given his vote against the 2007 immigration bill.
Iowa Old Lady
@jl: When I lived in Detroit, I stood in long lines routinely. When we moved to the suburbs, I was shocked that I could walk right in and vote. When we moved here, I started voting early, which is easy.
Heliopause
Final RCP and Huffpost averages were in the Sanders +13-14 range. If this +21 result holds we’re really going to have to rethink the polling on the Dem side going forward.
Renie
it just hit me – jeb is droopy dog lol
i guess only you old timers like me know who droopy is
PaulW
@Brachiator:
I really think Jeb will try to prolong his death-march into Florida where he has the state-level machinery to rely on. Even with Rubio pulling on the same support, that’s all Jeb has at this point.
Everything else for him is Fourth Place at best.
El Caganer
@raven: I remember they had a swimming pool/And they thought it couldn’t happen here….
Davis X. Machina
@Irony Abounds: He’s not ‘obscure’ in northern New England. I’ve met him…
delk
@Eric S.: I’m second generation, I have a lot of dead relatives.
Corner Stone
Good God there are a lot of beautiful women on the Trump campaign. I’m thinking he may have my vo….
NotMax
@Tom Q
New Mexico and Maryland.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@NotMax: it’s east. they’re 13 hours ahead of GMT.
Corner Stone
@Ella in New Mexico: It’s NH.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Corner Stone: That sounds very suspicious to me. No one gives those things up.
Benw
@p.a.: Eugene Debs. NEVER FORGET
Mai.naem.mobile
Trumpy is going to be insufferable the next few days. I wonder how much botox is on the Trumpy stage right now? Two gallons? Three gallons? Jeezus, I’m gonna miss Barack Obama.
Corner Stone
@Peale:
Her breasts and menopause? WTF is wrong with you?!
gogol's wife
@Ella in New Mexico:
It doesn’t hurt at all. Everyone knew the senator from Vermont would win New Hampshire.
Irony Abounds
@JohnO: It’s also rather difficult to love people like the Clintons who have made themselves enormously rich with disgustingly high speaking fees from people who don’t give a shit about the middle class. The Goldman Sachs speeches hurt her more than many people realize because it is emblematic of where their priorities are.
gogol's wife
@Renie:
No, come on, Joe Lieberman was Droopy Dog.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Irony Abounds: Well it also shows that there’s a lot more support for mildly socialist policies than the “sennerRight!”-spewing Centrists want people to believe. That seems the more important issue. One of the best possible outcomes is that she’s elected but with a clear mandate from having had to move left to get his supporters.
I think the focus on personalities isn’t just damaging, it’s also wrong, often. The more someone like her can stop saying “well shit, what do I have to act like to get these votes?” and the more she can say “well shit, people actually want these policies!”, the better off we’ll all be.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Renie: No. I don’t think that’s accurate. Wes Clark was jewish. He real last name was Kohen.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
Ed Kilgore has made the point that all Bernie’s New Hampshire support doesn’t necessarily all come from white boys with dreds named Trey, Clinton’s aggressiveness on guns doesn’t play well in a big hunting state.
That raises another point about “O! Will some other Dem save us?” Who has an inspiring vision? Biden? Kaine? Hickenlooper? Maybe Warren, and I know think she might’ve been able to beat HRC, less sure about her chances in a general, and then I remember all counterfactuals is equal amounts of bunk and hokum
Baud
@Irony Abounds: That’s fine. They have a candidate who hasnt taken any speaking fees from Goldman Sachs they can vote for.
Peale
@efgoldman: from socialist 1/3 mandate to “he sold us out. I’ve got nothing to vote for” by April.
gogol's wife
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
I guess Goldwater and Kerry don’t count.
PaulW
@efgoldman:
If Trump is truly a destructive force to the GOP itself and drives up Dem voter turnout as hoped (which we really shouldn’t rely on, GET THE GODDAMN VOTE OUT, PEOPLE), there’s a good chance the Senate goes solid Dem and a slim chance – despite the gerrymandering – to reclaim the House.
Then again, one should hope that of ANY GOP candidate – Cruz (AIIIIIEEEEEE), Jeb (AAAAUUUGGGHHH), or Rubio (EEEEWWWWWWW) – that might get the nom.
Matt McIrvin
@ellennelle: I think that is not surprising. Northern and western NH inverts the usual pattern of rural areas being more conservative. It’s instead the same pattern as Vermont and the Berkshires, rural areas that are Bernie Sanders land. The most conservative areas are suburban tract housing closer to Boston; I’d expect Democrats in those areas to be more centrist as well.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Corner Stone: Hey now. I for one think there’s good and bad word play. Some people just are on auto “groan” if there’s a pun involved, I think there are good and bad ones. I’d give that one a, well okay maybe a “C”.
Eric S.
@delk: old joke paraphrased.
“when my aunt from Gary, IN, passed she asked to be buried in Chicago”
“Why was that? ”
“So she could continue to vote Democratic. “
NotMax
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Conversely, 4800 miles from L.A., 7200 miles from NYC, so it’s west.
PaulW
@Mai.naem.mobile:
What do you mean, “the next few days”? He’s been insufferable since 1972!!!!!!!!!
p.a.
Trump regains momentum, starts biting heads off live chickens at campaign events.
Hillary responds to losing the female vote in NH by with seance recalling spirits of Bella Abzug and Betty Freidan who tell women to get their act together and vote Hillary.
Aleta
A wall won’t keep out fentanyl.
David *Rafael* Koch
Have you guys seen the photo of Barbara Bush scolding ¿Jeb?
Renie
@kc: been around for many years
Just Some Fuckhead
I think what you all are trying to describe about Clinton is that most everything she says is rehearsed and canned. Someone told her the Utes were supporting her rival so her campaign came up with the ridiculous line “you may not support me but I support you”. Tag it onto the end of every speech and BOOM, youth outreach solved. Nothing about what she’ll do for the most fucked generation in modern history, just a canned platitude.
SIA
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
Perrrrrfect.
David *Rafael* Koch
@Renie:
Geez. Even ¿Jeb?’s tweets are low energy.?
Seebach
@Cacti: the omnibus bill vote sniping is dull. Hil just needs to try if she wants to win. She’s not trying with her Iran sanctions and wall street bullshit
She thought she was running for the general because the nomination is her birthright or something
mike in dc
I saw and heard Bernie’s pivot in his speech tonight. I think the “glass half full” response to those who say Bernie has low support among minority voters is “hey, then it’s great that he has to work hard to sell himself to minority voters in NV and SC in order to move forward, isn’t it?” The opposite of being taken for granted. Time is short, but if he can make it a lot closer at least in those two states, that bodes well for him going forward to Super Tuesday. If he actually wins one or both, well, geez, whodathunkit?
p.a.
@Bill E Pilgrim: When policies are polled (neutral language) the public is moderately liberal. When voters are asked to self-identify they tend conservative.
Voters, except BJuicers, is idjits.
SIA
@SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel: See, I need to pay more attention. I didn’t even think about early voting for the primary.
Corner Stone
@Irony Abounds:
Famous people are famous. And they give paid speeches. Oh, the humanity!
Where, specifically, does this hurt the HRC campaign? I want to talk to the cohort she has lost due to this.
David *Rafael* Koch
@gogol’s wife: I knew that wasn’t accurate.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bill E Pilgrim: Wimp.
Corner Stone
And, I am sorry. But Kasich is about as deadly to the D’s winning the presidency as Gov Walker. Why do you people keep doing this to yourselves? Freaking out about every R Gov potential candidate. Sheesh.
On Walker, and Jindal and Huckabee, Oh My!
Renie
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: hmmm his father was Jewish and his mother was Methodist but I don’t know what religion he was.
NotMax
@Corner Stone
Only by whisking her booking agent to a black site will the truth come out!
:)
Seebach
@Corner Stone: you left out the “for the people who crashed the world economy” part
Baud
@mike in dc: Its’s doable.
Bill E Pilgrim
@p.a.: Yep. “Conservative” started being interpreted as “frugal” or the like for a lot of those polled, rather than the evil force it had actually become. Liberal sounded to people like “libertine”. And of course a lot of people want to think of themselves as sensible, frugal, and so on. Of course, the fact that corporate media propaganda pumped out those definitions 24/7 means it wasn’t just a random linguistic shift.
Corner Stone
@Renie: “Don’t call it a clapback! I been here for years!”
PeakVT
I wouldn’t over-read the NH results in favor of Sanders. He’s been a federal officeholder from a neighboring state for over two decades, and is probably somebody that a lot of NH Democrats wish they could elect to some office in their half-crazy state.
Felonius Monk
@Renie: @Renie:
You mean Ol’ Deputy Droopy?
Aleta
Might be time for me to die if that’s the Trump campaign playing Revolution.
Lolis
My sister and her kids are pro-Bernie. She has an advanced degree and they are eight. Her husband came here illegally from El Salvador and likes Hillary because the economy was good when Bill was president. At certain points, he was a big fan of W, but couldn’t vote yet since he wasn’t a citizen then. So he was a swing voter. He is a big Obama fan so that has made him a stronger Democrat. He likes the familiar Democrat. That is one anecdotal insight into what low-information Latino voters are thinking.
JohnO
@Irony Abounds:
Again, I agree completely, but at least she would tax herself and her own husband, and that’s where the rubber meets the road for me.
You can’t win the game nowadays if you don’t play. Knifes and gunfights and all. Absurd to turn down that kind of dough for a speech she could do in her sleep, and probably eventually did.
Just Some Fuckhead
I always feel a little sorry for Kasich. He looks like the love child of Richard Nixon and George W. Bush.
delk
@Eric S.: I remember the precinct captain coming over and telling my parents who to vote for and whether they wanted a turkey or a ham. A week before Christmas the turkey or ham would be delivered.
Renie
@gogol’s wife: Goldwater was an Episcopalian
amk
kasichmentum!!!
Renie
@efgoldman: he is but not under his real name
NotMax
Now it’s Pataki: 32 votes, Graham: 27, Jindal: 24.
Surprised those 83 people managed to find the voting place.
(Gilmore movin’ on up with 75 votes.)
David *Rafael* Koch
@Renie: there’s a lot more to being jewish than religion, after all Sanders isn’t religious he’s agnostic.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: Sanders voted for it. The CBC supported it. It was 20 years ago.
Just Some Fuckhead
When Kasich talks about New Hampshire “changing” him and crying and then crying again and healing the world, it makes me wonder if he’s serious about winning the Republican nomination.
Wrb
@Aleta: yep, they have made it Trump’s entry and exit song. Followed tonight by “You Can’t always Get What You Want”
Irony Abounds
@Corner Stone: If you don’t think her taking ungodly speaking fees from Wall Street bankers is a negative in a party with a base that is at best distrustful of the rich in general and Wall Street in particular, well, then I’m not sure you have a good read on the pulse of the people.
Marc
I really, really like hearing a Democrat give a straightforward, unapologetic liberal message. I’ve been waiting a long damn time to hear that. Whether he can win, harder to say, and that’ll be the factor when I vote. But this primary feels very different from what folks like me have had to settle for in years past.
Suzanne
Maaaan, Rubio is finishing after Bush. THAT is embarrassing. And I WUUUUUV it.
They are dumb if they don’t nominate Kasich.
Renie
@efgoldman: i don’t – i just pretend i do.
Jasmine Bleach
Well, this is rather unexpected. 57% reporting and Clinton is almost 21% behind Sanders. In polls from the past couple days, Clintonistas were claiming she had closed to within 7-9%. Sanders is up by precinct count 166 to 4.
We’ll see where it ends up when all is said and done, but yeah, Clinton underperformed much more than expected here. It’s actually quite easy to claim she’s in “freefall” when she’s second in a two person race and losing by this amount. Not equivalent to the republican situation at all.
Corner Stone
@Seebach: Who else had any money at the time?
I always wonder about people who actually follow politics but get their panties bunched so hard about completely rational decisions. Do you also castigate Obama for giving speeches at a fundraiser in the home of Motherfucking Rich Fucking Richman?
And if so, have you met my friend Politics? Please ask her how she works.
Felonius Monk
@efgoldman:
So far, I think Baud’s only be able to afford the Cancelled Czech.
debbie
Mr. Surgio, at 10%, polled less than Jeb’s! 11%. Has the smirk left his face yet?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Marc: Three, maybe four of Balloon Juice’s Steely-eyed Realists need to disabuse you of your pie-in-the-sky infantilism.
NotMax
Kasich sounded as if he’s running for deacon.
And hearing the audience shout K-SICK is a bit odd, as the second syllable is what comes through on the audio.
And – MSNBC cuts away from Ru-ru-rubio for a commercial. How the bloated have fallen.
Corner Stone
@Irony Abounds:
Oh. The people. Shit, I had forgotten about them.
Elie
@Irony Abounds:
But its not using the same plumbing. The Iowa Caucus is not an electoral primary process… Its a consensus based caucus. Bernie is the insurgent. He has little risk — he can just lay it out promising almost anything. Many think he has done a great job but I frankly do not believe his policy positions and stance on things make sense or are in any way doable. He is ridding the media’s intense hatred of HIllary — getting every advantage in the spin — which would last until he won the nomination. Hillary DOES need to show her stuff and show another gear than she has to crush this. She should not be panicked but she should be open and clear eyed about the weaknesses in her campaign. I believe in her and think she will be a great President.
Princess
@Jasmine Bleach: And even so she’s getting more people to vote for her than are voting for Trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: I see where you are coming from. Thanks for this.
Seebach
@Corner Stone: Clinton people are so universally unpleasant. So are you over 64, make over $200,000, or a second wave feminist?
pseudonymous in nc
Everybody expected a consolidation election: Hillary aiming to consolidate the gains of the Obama years, the GOP contenders aiming to consolidate the gains in state government and Congress.
It’s not quite turned out that way, and when you get a competing narrative of fuck-it-all transformation on both sides — no matter how cuckoo the Trump stump might seem — then it has the potential to propel itself along. Sanders benefits from Trump, and vice versa. That’s not to compare the two’s policies or personalities or support base: it’s a matter of how they frame what the election itself is about.
Just Some Fuckhead
@debbie: Rubio blamed himself in his post-primary speech. Said he didn’t do well on Saturdat night, pledged to memorize new and better sound bites.
Irony Abounds
LOL, Teddy trying to spin his 3rd place finish into an astounding victory. What a fucking pile of shit.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: She appears to have lost Irony Abounds and Seebach. Probably Applejinx as well.
Renie
@Felonius Monk: yes that’s him – sounded like one of those bandits said muthafuk LOL
PJ
@JohnO: You just articulated one of my problems with Hillary – I do believe she would try to be a decent centrist Democrat (albeit triangulating like a MF when Congress is going to vote against her), but whenever I hear her speak, it’s like she’s forcing herself to say Democratic shibboleths that mean nothing to her at all. The unarticulated values she believes in seem to be that she has put the time in the right institutions to be awarded President, and that she would be more competent at maintaining the status quo than other professional policymakers.
Marc
@Just Some Fuckhead: Yup. I know – how dare I enjoy listening to a presidential candidate that I agree with.
On the other side, as a liberal Democrat I certainly have practice in “it could have been worse” voting. May even have to practice it soon enough!
Irony Abounds
@Seebach: Corner Stone is simply unpleasant in general, it has nothing to do with being a Clinton supporter, many of whom are actually quite nice.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
ahahahhahahhahahahhah
NotMax
@Felonius Monk
Now, now, no need to drag abortion into it.
;)
/tired Borscht Belt comedian
Eric S.
@delk: There’s a story I’ve heard that precinct captains had to designate so many voters to vote for the opposition to prevent the results from being so lopsided as to prompt an investigation.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: When you say “lost”, you mean…?
Jasmine Bleach
@Princess:
Which is great news for the democrats in general!
Steve in the ATL
@Irony Abounds:
And what have they done with that money? The Clinton Global Initiative, which is awesome. Unlike the Kochs, Waltons, Adelson, Trump, et al who use their money either for self aggrandizement of actively hurting the country. So get over yourself.
Irony Abounds
@Just Some Fuckhead: Not to mention an upgraded operating system and new RAM.
cbear
Jeebus, who the fuck is that Latin-looking guy with the camo hat and the military attire standing over Trump’s left shoulder?
He looks like Che Guevara’s uncle or something. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Omnes Omnibus
@Bill E Pilgrim: What’s wrong with being a libertine? Libertine and/or flanuer are really my careers of choice.
Tripod
60% of the vote in, Bernie is up by 20 points, and is at a net of +0 delegates on the night.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Renie: No. You are thinking of Joe Lieberman as Droopy’s double. Take it from a Nutmegger.
Felonius Monk
@NotMax: It took me a minute, but I got it, Hennie. :-)
Corner Stone
@Seebach: I’m actually a Bernie supporter. I wants me some free college! The ridiculous bullshit going on around these parts simply screams out to be slapped sideways.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
I know Corner Stone but there is something going on with the “money in politics” thing. There are tipping points. Cops had been brutalizing black people for decades and no one predicted it would reach a tipping point on X day in Y year and then it did.
They’re not talking about a straight quid pro quo- THIS fee exchanged for THIS favor. They’re talking about access and influence. Who gets listened to, and about what. Cruz talks about it constantly, for God’s sake. Ted Cruz. With a straight face.
Corner Stone
@Irony Abounds: To the contrary, I am a gat damp delight.
Baud
@Kay: She can’t undo the past. If that’s what’s important to voters, they have a choice.
different-church-lady
All I know is one of three things is going to happen:
1) We’re going to have our first female president.
2) We’re going to have our first Jewish president.
3) We’re going to have yet another asshole president.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I meant their votes, but she might also have confused them – now that you mention it.
Corner Stone
@Kay:
And does that somehow redound to the argument being attempted? Or make it seem as ridiculous as some of the people in this thread keep hand wringing about?
Seebach
@Corner Stone: Hyuck hyuck. Living on your free social security and medicare is pretty cool for you boomers, but if anyone else wants anything free, they’re moochers, is that right?
jl
Well, I think it is a pretty good night overall, and can’t even think of something bad to say about NH, or its primary.
Democratic results seem so close to what was expected that not interesting and won’t make much difference. And if HRC is supposedly ruined by not pulling out some miracle, then maybe Sanders evened it out by yammering on like a stubborn old coot in his victory speech.
And the GOP results seem nicely tuned to keep a lot of those yahoos in the race and the whole situation nicely confused and chaotic. Christie seems to have faded in most recent batch of returns. I hope he hangs in there, He is nice thug who can do more than his share to damage the GOP cause if he stays in the race.
So, rooting for Christie to do slightly better. That is all I’d like tonight.
Seebach
@Irony Abounds: This is true. I am being unfair.
TOP123
@Just Some Fuckhead: I was thinking listening to the speeches on the radio tonight that, if Trump and Sanders were the nominees, the accents would be yooge.
oldgold
I remain amazed at how poor Andrea Mitchell is. How in he world does she keep her job?
Just Some Fuckhead
@efgoldman: Sorry, I know something that happened a hundred years ago is fresh in your mind but we were talking about the Utes.
different-church-lady
@efgoldman: Only the youngs matter. ONLY THE YOUNGS MATTER!
Uncle Cosmo
@Benw: Keep your day job. Even being charitable, that was a lame-rick.
Seebach
@efgoldman: Because the globe was irreversibly warming during the Great Depression, is that so?
Corner Stone
@Seebach: I fucking worked for my social security. I’m sorry that you think somehow you are entitled to something you haven’t earned, but that’s your problem. Get up off your ass and actually do something for a change other than whining, if you want to better your life and environment. Nothing’s going to get handed to you, nor should it be!
You want to have a hard on for people who went out there and did things, earned their money, bettered their livelihood, that’s on you. Some real Americans get that if you want to rise up in life you have to actually be willing to put in the hard work, and not sit around waiting for Uncle Sugar to come through.
different-church-lady
@Just Some Fuckhead: Oh, you mean like Glass-Steagall?
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: First of all, please explain how Social Security and Medicare are free. I’ll wait.
Just Some Fuckhead
@TOP123: Its making me keep the politics teevee turned off. On the other hand, my kids (20 & 15) are wild about Bernie. The girl gets sad when I tell her to take a reality pill. The boy actually knew the Iowa caucus results which is kinda frightening if you know the boy.
Irony Abounds
@efgoldman: @efgoldman: Actually politicians who get out of office and make enormous sums of money selling influence by taking money from corporations do piss me off quite a bit. And if you think people pay the Clintons or other former pols huge sums just cause they just like them, then you’re clueless. I find it repugnant that HRC would go to Goldman Sachs after what happened in the aughts and give them a speech telling them how wonderful they all are. There may be many reasons why I’m an asshole, but I don’t think taking umbrage about the Clintons and their fealty to the money class is one of them.
PJ
@jl: Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the Times is reporting that Christie is heading back to NJ instead of SC, i.e., the end is nigh.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@efgoldman: HRC is obviously in the pocket of Big Library. She made something like $9M in royalties from her books by 2005. She got $5M for just one book in 2014. Who can trust someone who won’t stand up to Big Library? $600k from G-S for what was it, three speeches?, is peanuts compared to what she’s gotten from Big Library. The real scandal here is Big Library, not speaking fees…
/snark
Cheers,
Scott.
Renie
christie heading back to jersey – i guess that leaves JEB? to go after rubio 2.0
different-church-lady
BOOMER ON YUTE VIOLENCE!!!! OH, THE HORROR!!!!
Kay
@Corner Stone:
I’m saying that they know it hits home, all of them running this cycle. It is something that bothers people. Maybe it didn’t always bother them but it does now. That isn’t “special rules” for Hillary Clinton. It’s a change in attitude and that happens- things can be acceptable for a time and then disliked but tolerated and then they’re not.
NotMax
Breaking:
Andy Martin, Joe Robinson and Richard Witz each currently receiving more votes than Gilmore.
(Not invented data.)
Just Some Fuckhead
I don’t know why you olds are queueing up on me like I’m 3:00p at Picadilly’s but we can talk about you self-centered motherfuckers if that’s what you want. The actual conversation was about how Clinton can appeal to the Utes.
guachi
I guess picking a villain, i.e. bankers, to rail against is the kind of thing that inspires people. It reminds me of Republicans going apeshit about Muslims.
OMG!!! Did you see!!! Obama talked to Muslims!!!!
OMG!!!! Did you see!!! Clinton talked to bankers!!!!
Steve in the ATL
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Well played, sir.
Seebach
@Corner Stone: Actually my social security taxes are paying for YOUR social security. Your social security taxes paid for your parents. I’d be happy to cut off my social security taxes so you could subsist on dog food, quite frankly. Also, I’m out of college so I wouldn’t get anything out of that particular deal.
Also, you are over 64 just like I guessed lol
PJ
@Corner Stone: Glad to see some Republicans have stuck with Balloon Juice after all these years.
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: You understand tax money is involved, right?
Joel
@lamh36: I hope you’re right. I have no strong candidate preference on the (D) side but I will participate in the primaries nonetheless.
NotMax
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
And, and – when is she going to release the text of the books?
Hm? Hm??
/RWNJ
jl
@PJ: No! It’s a feint. The big man is quick and graceful, and it’s a head and body fake. You’ll see.
Heliopause
Yikes. Current margin 22. Curiouser and curiouser.
different-church-lady
@Just Some Fuckhead:
She can’t appeal to the Utes. That’s the entire premise.
TOP123
@ThresherK (GPad): ugh. I actually timed a trip back from the Northwest, where I was living at the time, to visit family in Conn. to coincide with Election Day, with the express purpose of voting against Lieberman, since I realized I’d not changed my registration yet (hadn’t been in Seattle long).
different-church-lady
@Seebach: OK, that’s good. Now, let’s dig a bit deeper: whose tax money is involved?
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: Non-responsive. You said the benefits were free. I asked you to explain how the benefits are free. I’ll continue to wait.
PJ
@jl: In his mind, I have little doubt that is how Christie views himself. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.
Seebach
@different-church-lady: My tax money. You’re presuming social security will still be around when it’s time for me to claim it, while you’re living off of my labor right now. You’re welcome, by the way.
different-church-lady
@Seebach: So, do we, like, write our names on these dollars when we send them to Uncle Sam, so we know that all the money is being properly rotated through?
Corner Stone
@Seebach:
Firstly, SS is solid and will be for decades. You are irrelevant in the scheme of my earned SS payments. Second, you’re a real humanitarian in that you’d be just fine with starving people to prove some kind of misanthropic point you’re failing to make.
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: I had no idea retired people still worked? Don’t they sit at home collecting their checks and whining about why their kids won’t support Hillary Clinton?
Irony Abounds
A bit ironic that here I’m hating on Hillary after spending all weekend defending her to my mother who is a rabid anti-Hillary hater. But as I’ve made clear, I’ll vote for Hillary against any Republican. Just not happy to be voting against someone after voting for someone the past two elections.
different-church-lady
@Seebach:
Junior, I am very much living off of nothing but my OWN GODDAMNED LABOR at the moment, thank you very much.
Suzanne
@Corner Stone: I am waiting for Uncle Sugar to come through. Being adopted by a Romney is my retirement plan.
Seebach
@Corner Stone: How many decades? We’re not all quite as old as you are.
@efgoldman: I am over thirty.
@different-church-lady: You folks really ought to be made to work for your entitlements.
Peale
@Just Some Fuckhead: fine. I think the faster she jettisons Obama’s education policies the better. Or starts talking about how if there is going to be testing based on national education standards, the federal government will make sure that every teacher is trained and every student has the full set of textbooks so that school districts that only budget $15 per head for new textbooks each year have the supply.
I don’t actually agree with free college education. I do think the reliance on loans and tax exempt savings plans isn’t working. But I has to pay for mine and I had to pay off my loans so I’m not sympathetic to the free idea. However, I would be open to ideas that would reduce the burden and private cost of college. If the Sanders supporters would bring something different, I would listen.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: Did not those people pay in?
different-church-lady
@Seebach:
You’re not a day over twelve.
NotMax
@Seebach
Broken record. Or rickety hobbyhorse, take your pick.
Been hearing the same “you’re presuming Social Security will still be around” cries for over 50 years.
Guess what? It’s still there. And will remain there so long as the people demand it to be.
Renie
@Seebach: wow you are a nasty piece of work maybe we should bring up the ladder after ourselves
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not sure? Social security taxes are capped so someone making over $200,000 wouldn’t be paying in proportionate to their income.
Just Some Fuckhead
Clinton is clearly trying to appeal to the Utes. She’s added a canned line to each of her speeches. Now, just because she’s doing a shitty job at it so far doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. I think she needs to imagine each of the kids has a $200,000 check for her. That would probably give her the motivation to say what they want to hear.
Seebach
@Renie: You were already doing that anyway. Boomers are a neat generation willing to destroy the planet just so no one can have any fun without you.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
big if true, and fucking hilarious even if it’s just a guy on TV saying something
so do they really think Kasich (and god dammit, Word Press, learn that name) is the latest savior in the face of Trumpzilla?
Corner Stone
Good Christ but Trump looks like an Oompa Loompa with that bright orange-red face he had in his speech.
Nate Dawg
@Kay: I was trying to make this point in the other thread, albeit unsuccessfully.
Both Donald and Bernie are running as people who aren’t bought and paid for.
This is a tipping point. People are actually pissed off about money in politics, and it’s striking a chord.
I could actually see Trump beating Hillary in the general. Horrifying, I know, but it could happen. This is a populist moment.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: You are still being non-responsive to my original question. And you’ve been non-responsive long enough that it is an answer in itself.
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: Aw shucks, you beat me. Now I HAVE to vote for Hillary, huh?
Matt McIrvin
@efgoldman:
This is backwards, isn’t it? Not about guns, maybe, but about parties. The southern part of the state is the Republican part. Those people who moved north out of the Boston area were all the most conservative suburbanites in the Boston area; they hated Taxachusetts because it was full of hippies and Kennedys.
I live just across the border from this part of NH. It’s a forest of Trump signs right now.
The northern part of the state is Bernie-land, while it may be pro-guns as well.
NotMax
@Seebach
Jeez, you would strangle the mood at an orgy.
Seebach
@NotMax: Being handed the keys to a ruined world would do that to you. Funny how that works.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Peale: Yeah, all my Republican neighbors lost their minds when Obama was talking about making college more affordable a few years ago. Resentment of Others is a pretty powerful motivator.
Nate Dawg
The richness of Boomers schooling Millennials on things like SS and paying for college. So rich.
Boomers have already pulled up the ladder after themselves. That is why millennials are living in Boomers’ basements. Millennials are pissed, therefore Sanders.
Peale
@Nate Dawg: yes. But I really wish the other side would test the waters of giving up their campaign funding first. Then we’ll talk. I have visions of Bernie giving out in August and only 4 senators have enough funding to pay a phone bill.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Nate Dawg: You realize our first president, George Washington, was rich, right? By some measures he was the richest person in the country at the time, and 2nd of all time. Thus far…
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nate Dawg: He is running as unsullied? A small needle to thread. He’s been in politics for years; claiming to be above it all means that small transgressions get blown out of proportion. If that is his strategy, he better be purer than Caesar’s wife.
Irony Abounds
Chuckie T has gotten far too metrosexual for my tastes. Whomever was in charge of his makeover needs to go.
Seebach
So all the over 64’s are super certain the same people who gave us the Iraq War, the financial crisis, and environmental devastation will be totally trustworthy this time. Well, this was instructive.
I expected a President Trump anyway. I have zero hope for the future.
Renie
@Renie: nice try blaming in on boomers that you can’t get anywhere in your own life
magurakurin
Sanders did well, no doubt, but this is the result of a vote among what looks like now will be 226,000 people in a country of 318,000,000 of whom 125,000,000 voted in the last election. Sanders 60 to Clinton 40 is a blow out for sure, but Sanders 136,000 Clinton 90,000 is like results from one precinct in a large American city. Somehow, 46,000 more people in New Hampshire like Bernie more than Hillary doesn’t quite have the ring the media will want for the horse race.
But, Sanders has done very well. Certainly in April of last year when he announced no one thought it would be this competitive.
NotMax
@Seebach
The sophomoric whine of every generation about those preceding them, as far back as recorded history goes.
Joel
@Just Some Fuckhead: I laffed.
Seebach
@NotMax: So you don’t agree with the scientific consensus about man-made global warming?
Wrb
@Nate Dawg: I have a lot of trouble seeing her beating him. Small sample, but every potential swing voter I know would vote Trump if Hillary is the nominee. The toxic words and phrases this year are Wall Street, financial deregulation, NAFTA, and Goldman. “Socialism” has no power. A word your silliest grandparent used to spew the table saying.
Nate Dawg
@Omnes Omnibus: OMG, you guys can’t accept the point. Such willful ignorance about an issue.
I am not making any claim in favor of Sanders or about his purity. I’m certainly not making any claim about our aristocratic, racist, slave-owning founders.
Look at the moment. This is a tipping point. Clinton is tone deaf on the issue. (yes I’m voting for her). But still, it’s enormously important.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
Seebach
@Renie: Don’t be so hard on yourself. :(
amk
gopolitico
For Chris Christie, New Hampshire was a bridge to nowhere
Irony Abounds
@Nate Dawg: I dunno, my two millennial daughters aren’t living in my basement (I actually don’t have a basement, so I’m speaking metaphorically). One graduated from college in 2011 and had a job before she graduated and my other one is graduating this year and already has a job lined up. Both got jobs just for working hard and doing well in college. Obviously your vision of a millennial dystopia is overblown. There is a sense of entitlement among millennials that is a bit off-putting. Now get off my lawn.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: Who here do you think is over 64? Name names. I am 51; not young, but I sure as hell am not getting SS or Medicare.
El Caganer
@magurakurin: Yeah. I live in Philadelphia, which has a couple hundred thousand more people than New Hampshire, and I doubt that Sanders would pull down 20% of the Democratic vote here. That’s not a knock on him; that’s just the way it is.
NotMax
@Seebach
Attempting to change the subject by playing the Luddite won’t help your case.
But (strictly BTW) whence comes that consensus? Could it be (gasp) boomer-generation scientists?
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
I’m under 64 but old enough to remember the last time Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore told me there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats
A farewell note? Okay
A suicide note? Eh, not my place to give you advice.
amk
ironic the millenials voted strongly for the oldest candies.
Nate Dawg
If only we had a Democratic party that was in touch enough with the people it claims to represent to know that income inequality is the #1 issue of its constituents.
This party could build a broad coalition, with coherent and unanimous goals, coordinate its messaging, and find a candidate for every office that isn’t completely bankrupt on the issue.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Nate Dawg: When I was a kid, there wasn’t even a minimum wage. We worked for free and because it was fun. If you minded your P’s and Q’s and came in on your day off, a fella could really get ahead quick. Now these kids are getting something like $7 an hour! Crikeys we were lucky to get $7 a week!
Seebach
@NotMax: Wait, so you’re actually trying to claim generational credit for acknowledging the damage a generation caused? Nero fiddled while Rome burned but his fiddling was also ril ril gud?
Daaaaamn, I’m impressed. Good narcissism.
Peale
@Nate Dawg: yo. Not all of us are boomers or even close to retirement. Those of us Xers who suffered through Reagan and Two Bushes remember the Clinton era as a better respite between two republican regimes. And it’s Bernie who’s actually reminding us of those sanctimonious super liberals who never won crap and led progressives in circles for 50 years.
Nate Dawg
@Irony Abounds: Really? Your n=2 data set is enough to dismiss the extreme disadvantages my generation has inherited. Inherited because of actions taken by their predecessors? Really? Wow.
Reality = cost of college is out of control. The boomers ceded the common good of nearly every industry to private profiteers. They deregulated nearly everything, and we have a dog-eat-dog capitalist system where not only are things *not* free, they are immensely more expensive than they need to be, because everything is required to make a continuously increasing profit.
Your generation sold out the common good to speculative greed, and we are the ones footing the bill.
So glad for your daughters, and myself who doesn’t live in a basement, but we are the fortunate ones. I know many who aren’t.
Jasmine Bleach
Interesting. 77% of precincts in, and 24,000 more republicans have voted than democrats. That sucks.
El Caganer
@Just Some Fuckhead: How come nobody’s mentioned bootstraps yet? Will no one think of the bootstraps?
Cat48
@Seebach:
Bernie Voted for the Crime Bill so he has dirty hands too.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Nate Dawg: what proposals would your fantasy party and candidate find consensus on to address inequality?
and why do you think, as you seem to, that Balloon Juice comment threads are platform committee of the DNC? There was a stat floating around in ’09 or so that blog readers are about ten percent of the population, I don’t know what percentage comment, but I’m pretty sure no major decisions are being made here.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nate Dawg: You are ignoring my point. Politicians always compromise on something. Vote badly on something. People who see Sanders as incorruptible may will be disappointed by his compromises.
Seebach
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: Dude, this ain’t my first Rodeo. There’s a world of difference between Trump or Cruz and Clinton. Clinton is just lazy right now. I’ll vote for her, but the entitlement and grossness of her supporters is disgusting.
Corner Stone
@Jasmine Bleach: It’s NH.
Nate Dawg
@Peale: That’s a really good point. Clinton should channel some of that.
Renie
@Seebach: i’m quite proud of what i’ve accomplished in life without anyone handing anything to me
sorry you can’t say the same and need something for nothing to get head
Corner Stone
@Seebach:
UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!! UNCLEAN!!!
Corner Stone
@Seebach
BOOM! Roasted!
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Corner Stone: last I checked, Tea Party Senator Kelly Ayotte was tied with Maggie Hassan in the land of the Bern.
@Seebach: I thought you were leaving?
Seebach
@Renie: What exactly have I asked for that’s “for nothing”? I haven’t actually requested anything here. Single payer healthcare would be nice, though, since the rest of the civilized world has it.
But with your “I pulled myself up with my own bootstraps” rhetoric I’m guessing you’ve not long been a democrat. Fine, and understandable, with the way the Republican party has become so radicalized.
NotMax
@Seebach
No, I’m addressing your specious arguments.
You want perfection? Wonderful. Work your butt off for perfection (and I wish you nothing but success in that endeavor), don’t blame others for everything not being handed to you just so.
Or else build a time machine and go back to off Watt, Fulton, et al.
It’s been moderately entertaining, but shall not respond beyond this.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: Entitlement and grossness? Damn, I usually get accused of arrogance and condescension. I must be off my game tonight. I apologize.
Cacti
@Peale:
And when I make my student loan payments each month, no issue is dearer to my heart than making sure every member of the special snowflake generation gets to go to college for free.
Nate Dawg
@Omnes Omnibus: Yah, and that’s why I can’t get behind Sanders. His supporters would vanish like hippies the morning after an orgy come July and nothing had been accomplished, and he had to *gasp* compromise.
I’m not going to craft income inequality policy here. That’s not my job. It’s the job of the Democratic party to be in touch enough with its constituents to coordinate their messaging to actually inspire the people they claim to represent. Bankruptcy reform, education reform, financial regulation, pre-K, mandate exemptions for small business employees, higher minimum wage. These are places I’d start.
Instead, the message I’m getting around here is “Tough luck, kid. Vote for her or ELSE!” <—- Not exactly an inspired message.
Seebach
@Corner Stone: Again, what something for nothing do I supposedly want? Are we not trying for universal healthcare anymore? I thought even Clinton wanted to build on Obamacare?
Are we trying to repeal Obamacare now?
amk
bad, bad NY daily news
Corner Stone
@Peale:
Shut.Up. You Golden Oldie. You are unable to tap in to the essence of the zeitgeist….mmmaaannn…
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
One of the things that bugged me about Sanders in the last debate was the way he glossed over the difference between universal health coverage and single payer, making the latter the shiny object that a lot of people who don’t know there’s a difference would clamor for, and making Clinton look like the big sell-out for “only” being for UHC to people who don’t know or don’t care about the difference, including Cole’s New Troll on the front page.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nate Dawg: Have you listened to her actual speeches or have you viewed her campaign through the media lens? Honest question.
Seebach
So, essentially, because I think Clinton should apologize for her Iraq war vote, and think she’s undermined Obama’s Iran deal with her sanctions talk, and because she’s far too close to wall street, I apparently want something for nothing?
And it’s not Clinton supporters who want people to support her for nothing? Wild stuff, daddy-o.
Irony Abounds
@Nate Dawg: My daughters are the two millennials closest to my heart, but they are not the only ones who have found success through hard work. Many of those I know who have not found success, have picked degrees that were clearly a path to nowhere and they didn’t give the future all that much thought. With that said, I understand first hand how expensive college can be and how difficult the job market can be. And even though I am not that far from joining the Social Security gravy train, I find the elderly to be just about as “me me me” as the youngsters. Nonetheless I find the “woe is me” whining quite insufferable.
Cacti
I enjoy Boomer bashing as much as any Gen X’er does, but shit, Boomers were at least willing to put themselves in peril over resisting the Vietnam draft, or worse still, going to Vietnam when their number was called.
Millennials whine like hit dogs because they can’t get a $15/hour starting wage for unskilled work. Boo fucking hoo hoo hoo.
Seebach
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: Is Universal Health Coverage “something for nothing” though? I would hate to ask for “something for nothing”, as that is the cardinal sin of the youth as I have come to be taught by my gracious elders.
Nate Dawg
Generation Xers are just so depressed and depressing. The David Foster Wallace generation, wedged between much more compelling time periods–too late for the 60’s / 70’s but too early for the millennium’s technological revolution.
Jinchi
In 2008 Democrats had record high turnout. In 2012 Democrats and Republicans had record low turnout. So why compare Democrats against a landslide election and Republicans against a tepid turnout election, if not to skew the comparison?
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
No, but you’ve been yelling at us for last hour or so as if it were ours. I find Hillary Clinton a frustrating candidate, too. I can’t fix her from laptop.
maybe calm the fuck down and quit virtually screeching about heads in sand to people who largely agree with you?
Cacti
@Seebach:
Grown up life isn’t like your youth soccer league.
They don’t give you trophies just for showing up. Hell, before millennials, they didn’t even give kids trophies just for showing up.
Renie
@Seebach: wrong junior, first prez i voted for was carter and have voted democrat since then
blaming boomers cuz you can’t do anything is idiotic its mostly REPUBLICAN policies that have created the situation for your generation
i got two kids i put through college on my own dime and both are in grad school with loans and don’t live in my basement. my husband and i started with barely a dime when we got married in 1982 and have worked our asses off since then and now that we are getting to retirement we don’t see our future all rosy.
so stop blaming all the boomers
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Seebach: are you talking about Universal Coverage or Single Payer now? You’re changing the subject. And I don’t think you know what the fuck you’re talking about, you just know Must Have Shiny Object.
Nate Dawg
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve seen so many speeches of hers, it’s not even funny. Her recent remarks regarding Sanders is on the right track, but she needs to sell the message by making it appear she actually cares.
All the fun Gen X vs. Millenial stuff aside, the younger generation is extremely averse to the inauthentic. We have been marketed to (and forced to market ourselves) much, much more intimately than previous generations. We are repulsed by the inauthentic. This is a large part of Sanders and Trump’s appeal. Also why Clinton can’t catch fire with the youth.
Peale
@Nate Dawg: we invented your goddamn technological revolution so you wouldn’t have to go outside because we didn’t like strangers. o.k.? The fact that you know that you’re allergic to gluten? That was us, too.
NotMax
@efgoldman
You got air? We had to gulp breaths from a vending machine.
Which took only company scrip.
And the weeks were 9 days long.
Seebach
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: But do they largely agree with us in re: income inequality, Wall Street, speculative finance, the 2008 financial crisis?
The whole comment thread has been people whining about young people wanting free shit for nothing and lifting yourself up by your bootstraps and BTW, the 2008 financial crisis didn’t destroy the economy that bad and if you don’t have a job you weren’t smart enough to plan for the future.
FROM DEMOCRATS. Or so I assume?
I can see why people don’t think income inequality is Clinton’s strong suit, really. The rhetoric here is dire.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: Universal coverage and single payer are different things. I want universal coverage; I could give two shits about whether single payer, insurance companies, or fairy dust gets us to what other First World countries have.
Nate Dawg
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: Probably just a tone / text disconnect between us, because I’m surprised you’d say that to me. I’m sorry you feel that way.
Cacti
@Nate Dawg:
Interesting theory.
Now please square it with the popularity of Justin Bieber.
amk
Nice to see dems go at each other’s throats. Makes my heart glow.
Ridnik Chrome
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: In a just world Bill Kristol would be pelted with garbage every time he opened his mouth…
Cacti
@Peale:
Millennials claiming credit for the digital age is like the Boomers claiming credit for the civil rights movement.
Unbelievable bullshit.
Just Some Fuckhead
Why can’t Hillary Clinton be more like Darren Criss?
El Caganer
@Nate Dawg: I’m not trying to urinate on your birthday cake here, but I’m about to jump into Medicare and I distinctly remember the burning urgency of ‘authenticity’ from my salad days. You’re not wrong to seek it, but don’t even begin to imagine that the current generation is the first to do so.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Says the idiot who is pretty much admitting not knowing the difference between Single Payer and UHC, after stating one (which one? Better scroll up and check what you so passionately believed in three minutes ago!) was an essential political goal. Thanks for playing, Puddin-head.
@Nate Dawg: It’s just a fucking blog, hopefully we’ll both get over it.
Nate Dawg
@Cacti: Bieber is a youtube phenom turned superstar. He is as authentic as you can get. Not sure why you’d bring Bieber up at all. (Not a fan, but he’s not some pre-packaged craptastic marketing gimmick.)
Seebach
@amk: I’ve been naughty but the victim blaming and hardcore libertarian capitalism here was surprising.
My shit luck for not being born in Canada or Europe where civilized countries take care of their citizens. I’ll do better next time.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nate Dawg: Okay. Wait to be inspired. Wait for another Obama. I don’t have another 100 years.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Just Some Fuckhead: my favorite Darren was McGavin
Nate Dawg
@Cacti: No one claimed credit for it. You should get your reading glasses checked. I said you were *too* late for it. That is, you came of age before the internet / mobile technology had taken off.
Has absolutely nothing in the world to do with who created it. We all know it was Al Gore and Steve Jobs. (seriously).
Seebach
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Foolish Literalist is right. JFC
gwangung
@Nate Dawg:
Careful. The Obama coalition was 56% white, 44% of color. I’d say that there are two issues that are of import to this coaltion—and that the Democratic party would need to touch on both these issues.
Cllinton is missing on income inequality and Sanders is clumsily running from Obama and is clumsy on racial matters—both are key misses in their campaign.
Renie
how can you think boomers don’t know about income inequality when most of us have worked our asses off only to find out we can’t even retire comfortably or at all
it’s not boomer’s fault its REPUBLICAN policies that have caused these problems
Nate Dawg
@Renie: Boomers voted for Republicans. QED.
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: Who wants another Obama. Can Hillary not admit she was wrong for voting for the AUMF for Iraq, which she was a fucking idiot to fall for?
Are Clinton supporters against the Iraq War? Or is that another right wing thing boomers have now adopted as a talking point? Liberating the Iraqis from Saddam Hussein and all of that
Irony Abounds
@Nate Dawg: Well, Bieber’s an authentic douchebag, I’ll grant you that. Add the Kardashians to the list and I think the millennials claim to having authenticity meters is pretty much garbage.
Nate Dawg
@gwangung: Yes. Lots of issues. Clinton saying “All Lives Matter” was just as tone deaf as her Goldman Sachs speeches.
Seebach
@Renie: The generation that said “we should pull up the ladder” couldn’t possibly have been involved in VOTING for the Republicans who pulled up the ladder? You evinced that attitude your fucking SELF. Scroll back a few comments and your Boomer ethos of ME UBER ALLES will come shining through
NotMax
NH delegate count at the moment:
Sanders – 15
Clinton – 9
Trump – 11
Kasich – 3
Cruz, Bush, Rubio – 2 each
Mandarama
@Nate Dawg: I am an Xer, or at least some Winona Ryder movie told me I was. (That was back in my 20’s before I became too tired for cinema outings.) And yet I’m a happy warrior! I show up and work hard for any liberal and vote in every election. But I’m also from the Deep South, and lifelong liberals here must take things as we find them and keep on going. We have so much daily proof of the alternative.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Squirrel!
Nate Dawg
@Irony Abounds: You somehow think the Kardashians doesn’t bolster the general point that authenticity is a valued commodity to millennials?
Millennials didn’t create this brave new, overmarketed world. They have been marinating in it, though, and as such, are naturally attracted to the authentic and repulsed by marketed products.
This is not a revolutionary concept. It’s pretty much taken as truth by everyone who has a stake in the topic (marketers, etc.)
Just Some Fuckhead
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Night Stalker for the win.
Seebach
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This place used to be way more fun when there were still Democrats here. Oh well.
magurakurin
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: This. It will be a better day when the terms universal health care and single payer are no longer confused as the same thing. Single payer is a way to achieve universal health care, and not all of the civilized world does it that way. I live in Japan, currently. I often here Japan mentioned as one of these single payer paradises. Japan does not have single payer. It basically has the PPACA, with no exchanges but a public option. Most people have employer based plans and everyone else is mandated to get the public option. The public option has a premium based on your income the year prior and a straight 30% co pay. It does however include dental. There are caps on total out of pocket expenses, but long term hospitalization or cancer treatment will bankrupt you without a supplemental private insurance plan. The two biggest providers of which are Aflac and the evil AIG.
Sanders’ proposals are just too simplistic for me. But, unfortunately for Hillary Clinton she is a policy wonk/technocrat in a WWE world. So, Bernie is competitive and Trump is going to be a tough fight, too.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Seebach: so you’re leaving this time?
Maybe you could actually learn a few things about the issues you’re so very, very passionate about, and come back and take part in the discussion. I’ll make tea.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: She has admitted her vote was wrong. Years ago. Go google it.
As for your generational fight shit. Have fun with it. I ain’t gonna play.
NotMax
@efgoldman
Sounds vaguely sketchy and titillating all at the same time.
;)
Nate Dawg
@magurakurin: Which is why we need Clinton. The Japanese model is a great explanation of what the ACA can do. Japan has price controls, though, and sorry to say, that might be what we have to do here. But socialism, so who knows.
mclaren
@WarMunchkin:
This “first time candidate X did Y” bullshit isn’t going to fly. You might have noticed that we are in the midst of massive political upheaval. First a black president, then one political party gone batshit insane, now a woman and a Jewish socialist running for president.
“A candidate who is X has never Y” is not reasoning that will get us anywhere in the midst of epochal political change like what we’re living through now. That kind of reasoning is for ordinary unexceptional normative political eras, not huge political tectonic upheavels like 2016.
Renie
@Nate Dawg: Not all of us and ONLY boomers?
gwangung
@Seebach: That looks like purity politics. That usually doesn’t play well in a coalition of diverse interests.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: Fuck you.
Mandarama
@Seebach: No idea how long you’ve been reading here, and I don’t want to speak for anyone else…but there’s a slight possibility you got played a bit once you were tuned up. Vitriolic jackals we may be; libertarians, never. Be of good cheer.
Seebach
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What discussion? The discussion about how hard work and discipline is its own reward and the government has no business helping people?
mclaren
@Seebach:
If any of the rich entitled oldsters on this thread had to face the brutal economic realities of millenials, you’d all be on your knees begging someone to kill you know to put you out of your misery.
The rich assholes on the balloon juice commentariat like to debate about their $2000 mattresses and $80 pillows. These are spoiled-brat rich motherfuckers who don’t have a clue what the economy is like for ordinary people nowadays.
Nate Dawg
@Seebach: Must have struck a chord. This place skews hemorrhoids and fiber, but I honestly never thought I’d see them spewing Republican talking points and shitting all over the Democratic platform.
magurakurin
@Nate Dawg: Yes, the price controls are very strict and are actually something of a problem. A lot of hospitals are in the red. But costs here are much, much less than back home. The provider end of the healthcare problems in the US are somewhat overlooked in a lot of the debate. Sanders’s focus on the insurance companies as the main element of evil and the problem of the whole system is simplistic.
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: No, it’s ok. As a ute it’s my job to learn to fuck myself, and not rely upon the older generation or the government to fuck me. You’ve taught me well. President Trump will have further lessons for us all.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Omnes Omnibus: 51? You don’t even have a generation. You’re like Boomer X, a freak. Some sorta cross-generational hybrid, simultaneously raised in a traditional nuclear family with one earner and left alone every afternoon anyway. My god, you fucking horror show.
Omnes Omnibus
@mclaren: You know nothing about commenters here. Also, if I am a PFC in a Pentagon basement how do I have a $2k mattress, etc.?
Renie
@Seebach: all your comments come down to whining that the boomers destroyed everything for you and we are not handing stuff to you on a silver platter
Just Some Fuckhead
@mclaren: Fucking Jim is posting from a LAPTOP.
FlipYrWhig
@gwangung: See, when I say “the base” I mean “me.” Like when realtors say “the buyers won’t like this bathroom” and they mean “I don’t like this bathroom.” Ergo, if my biggest political concern is campaign finance reform (?!), I can say “the Democratic base is very concerned with campaign finance reform, and Democrats ignore it at their peril.” And it sounds fancy and almost intimidating!
Ruckus
@Seebach:
You are full of shit.
First. I’m a fucking early boomer and I’m still working and will be for at least a couple more years. Others here who are older who comment here worked till they were 70. I’m sure you won’t believe or understand this but I hope for your sake you don’t have to work till then.
Second. If you think that generations older than you are wrecking everything for you then think about how many of them marched for civil rights or against the Vietnam war. And think about how many assholes younger than you will have to work to support your stupid ass, if and when you are old enough to collect SS.
Third. If you are so precious that you think you are better than anyone older than you I’ll say the same thing to you I used to people older than me, thanks for teaching me how to accomplish shit and to understand that getting old is just part of the process. Which by the fucking way sucks donkey balls.
Fourth. I won’t go any farther because it’s quite possible you haven’t learned to count any higher. So here’s the end, in case your level of understanding is a fucked up as it sounds.
FUCK OFF ASSHOLE
Seebach
@Nate Dawg: I still never found out what the free thing I apparently wanted was.
Maybe… it was a friend. How silly of me.
Scratch a Clinton diehard and you’ll find a Republican. No wonder her Goldman Speeches are no big deal to these folks.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Military gets the $2k toilet seats.
magurakurin
@efgoldman: The Boomers get a bad rap because the GenXer’s and the Millennials tend to mistake the Silent Generation for the Boomers. Those people in mobility scooters with the “government hands off my Medicare?” Yeah, not boomers. When you look at voting records the Greatest Generation and the Boomers are very reliable Democratic voters, Silents not so much. Interestingly, Sanders is old enough to be at the end of the Silent Generation. Which makes me think that the generational talk is mostly garbage anyway.
Seebach
@Ruckus: Ah yes, the Civil Rights movement. That worked so well! Black people certainly aren’t being killed and incarcerated in absolutely criminal numbers when you all decided to sit on your hands and elect Law and Order republicans for 20 years.
Your efforts certainly changed everything.
Five.
Omnes Omnibus
@Just Some Fuckhead: Well, no shit. Helps to explains the squirrel skin suit, don’t it? Well, a little bit.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Seebach: why is “Speeches” capitalized? and this is like your fourth or fifth Most Important Issue in this thread
Seebach
@Renie: The boomers destroyed everything for every generation to come. Fuck me. I’m one person. I’ll be dead long before your grandchildren live on a blighted hellscape of a planet.
magurakurin
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Generation Jones, same as Obama. I’m 53. This is how we roll, on Big Wheels and no helmets.
Renie
@mclaren: sorry but my mattress cost $3k and my pillow $100 – get your facts straight
magurakurin
@Seebach:
you’re just trolling now. please proceed, governor.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: At this point, it becomes obvious that you are a moron.
Ruckus
@Nate Dawg:
Same for you asshole.
I’ve lived in a friends unheated room because it was better than my unheated van. We aren’t all the rich fucking assholes who stole your lunch money. Get the fuck over yourselves. Some of us have worked our entire lives and been just as screwed as everyone else, pretty much like those olds who lived through the depression. And which side of the political aisle brought on both the depression and the world’s largest recession? Fucking conservatives.
I hope you and your friends remember being 30 when you get to be 65-70 and trying to figure out which to afford, food, shelter, heat, medicine. And remember that the political side of the aisle that brought on this for you? Fucking conservatives.
Fuck you asshole.
Nate Dawg
@Seebach: I wouldn’t go that far. Clinton was miles beyond W, and both parties have moved further to the left/right, respectively.
I would say that older people are probably more satisfied settling for a moderate Dem because Clinton years were great (for many people), and Bush years were such a disaster. And that’s why Hillary gets my vote, and I can’t get behind Sanders even still.
The fact remains that our generation is miles beyond theirs in supporting good policy–especially social. (Gay marriage, marijuana legalization, drug war, net neutrality, etc.)
Cacti
@mclaren:
Another navel gazing millennial who is certain that his leaky training pants are the worst thing that ever happened to anyone anywhere.
You little turds have had it so easy, the medical field had to invent disorders to explain why you all suck so much, like celiac’s disease.
You wanna know what’s gluten free, millie? Shutting the fuck up. That’s what. ;-)
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: If you get to claim credit for the entire civil rights movement, you also get to claim credit for the entire backlash. Seems fair
magurakurin
@Seebach:
well, if they are my offspring, they will all have to be named Houdini since I had my kids tied up behind a little knot in ball sack in my 20’s. Believe it or not, your’s isn’t the first generation to see the world in all its fucked up fucked upedness.
Mandarama
@Seebach: That wide brush you’re painting with leaves a lot of paint flying. None of these guys are Republicans. They aren’t even all Clinton diehards. Nor are all people over 64 (goal much preferable to alternative), making 200K per annum (greater income for all supposedly a liberal concept), or second wave feminists (progressive fighters who did tough work) all ‘unpleasant,’ as you noted above. Hard for me to be friendly after any of those assertions, even if I’m not in those categories. My mom’s generation of liberals worked for change mighty hard to be told they ‘aren’t Democrats’ now.
ETA: Who wants another Obama? God, I do. I wish my mom had lived to see him elected, but she died of cancer at 52 because she didn’t have any health insurance. She would have been so happy, especially about Obergefell. And of course, the ACA.
Seebach
@Cacti: You might want to hold off on those incontinence jokes
Nate Dawg
@Ruckus: What the fuck did I do? I’m a bleeding heart liberal. Jesus Christ. What the fuck did I do? Oh, right, I worked my ass off to elect Barack Obama so you wouldn’t have to eat catfood.
So don’t take it out on me.
Are you mad because I said Boomers gave us Republicans? That’s just how it went down, sorry. They still are, by the way, giving us Republicans. In fact, why would you be mad at millennials *at all*? If only millennials were allowed to vote, you’d have a lot better prospects for the future, that much is true.
delk
@magurakurin: 53 as well. Nobody talks about the Jones Generation.
Seebach
@Mandarama: They might want to cool it with the Republican talking points about bootstraps and shit, then. Or they don’t have to. They obviously know what they’re doing.
Cacti
@Seebach:
Don’t worry kid. One day you’ll master making number 2 in the potty.
Your Mom will probably even give you a trophy for it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: I am claiming no credit for the Civil Rights movement. I was born the year the Civil Rights Act was passed. I had no effect on it whatsoever.
ETA: My parents worked for it. But that doesn’t accrue to me.
Seebach
@efgoldman: The libertarian thing is kinda tired after the speeches given in this thread about how millennials don’t try hard enough to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. You’re also like 100 posts behind.
Nate Dawg
Democrats should take a cue from the commentariat here and shit all over their best demographic.
#winning
Ruckus
@Seebach:
I thought so. Your understanding of history is as fucked up as your understanding of everything else. Enjoy the bakery you useless fuck.
Seebach
@Cacti: Why sass the generation that will be wiping your ass in the nursing home?
Omnes Omnibus
@Nate Dawg: Get over yourself..
Just Some Fuckhead
My Dawg Nate is right. You Boomers screwed America. It might not have been you personally but it was your generation. And it was probably you personally.
And deep down, you know it.
magurakurin
@Nate Dawg: Voting trends by generation are pretty complex. Here is some interesting data. GenXer’s have some blood on their hands, too. But it is the Silent Generation that is hardest right. And right now the oldest Boomer is only 70.
Seebach
@Ruckus: The anti-Vietnam war movement was also basically more boomer whining about not wanting to be drafted than any comprehensive anti-imperialist movement.
Like Hil says, results matter. And boomer results were pretty shitty. Sorry
magurakurin
@delk:
The first rule of Generation Jones, is don’t talk about Generation Jones.
Nate Dawg
@Ruckus: Word is the Clinton campaign is going to be doing an overhaul. You should put in an application for youth outreach. Definitely have a knack with it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@magurakurin: Meeee-yeeeeee and Generation, Generation Jones…. (48)
Cacti
@Seebach:
I wouldn’t trust a millennial to competently perform even that task.
Btw, not a Boomer.
waysel
@Seebach: Are you honestly unaware of this : . And in her 2014 book, and on the Maddow show a few weeks ago? Honestly?
Nate Dawg
@magurakurin: They aren’t so silent anymore, eh? Can we rename them the Scooter Generation?
Ruckus
@Nate Dawg:
You may claim to be a liberal and you may vote for Democrats but from your comments here tonight you sure have a twisted sense of what makes a Democrat. We are a big party and we have people of all ages and walks of life. Not all boomers are republican nor conservative. Neither are all from the generation before that nor before that. And not all of the people in the generations after us are liberal or democrats. It has always been so. And people who are over 18 can vote. I had to wait till I was 21. Who the fuck do you think gave you that, conservatives? Grow the fuck up and quit knocking people older than you. We’ve suffered bullshit a lot longer than you have. Now it’s your fucking turn. You want it to be better maybe you should think about trying to convince people both older and younger than you that your way is better rather than talking shit about other generations and how everyone has taken away everything you haven’t worked for.
Renie
so nice to see the youngsters with all the answers, maybe all of us old-timers will be able to retire after all cuz they will now fix everything cuz they are such special snowflakes
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: I am sorry that every generation before you fucked you over. Guess what: Every generation before you feels the same way. Deal with it.
Seebach
@waysel: Oh, cool. Ok, I’m sold on Clinton now.
Partially for this, and partially to piss off all of the psycho Republicans in this thread who don’t care about income inequality, universal healthcare, education, or any future generation in general.
This was a real eye-opener. Nihilistic republicans such as the ones here must have absolutely no control over the future of this country.
adios, freepers
divF
@Seebach:
And yours are going to be better by electing a President Trump or a President Cruz. Gotcha.
FlipYrWhig
@Nate Dawg:
Black women, you mean?
Cacti
@Renie:
And if we think Grandpa Goodness from Vermont is playing them a Pied Piper’s song of promises he can’t possibly keep, it’s because we’re establishment, maaaaaan.
Nate Dawg
@Ruckus: When someone on an internet forum makes a claim about a large group of people, they are not making the claim that every single individual in that group personally fulfills that claim. When someone says “Texans suck because Cruz and Perry”, they aren’t implying that everyone in Texas voted for Cruz and Perry.
The fact of the matter is that older voters have dominated elections and placed horrendous Republican deregulators in office. The fact is that the older generation has allowed an unsustainable war on drugs to create a permanent underclass, disenfranchising and terrorizing minority populations. This is all on your generation, not you in particular. That’s just a fact. Stop carrying water for your peers, and understand that I don’t know you, and my claims were not directed at you personally.
In other words, grow up.
Omnes Omnibus
@Seebach: Again, fuck you.
Nate Dawg
@Renie: If you all would just shut up and let us do the voting, then yes, your situation would be a lot better. That’s an inconvenient fact for you, but it is a fact.
Groucho48
I’ve been seeing this “blame boomers for everything” meme a few times now. I wonder if some right wing think tank is spreading it? Boomers aren’t responsible for all the bad stuff in Millennials’ lives; Republicans are. Though, yes, as they get older, Boomers are voting more for Republicans than I would like. But, most of us voted against Reagan, for example. It was you youngsters that put him in office.
Boomers put Clinton in office. Younger voters put George the Lesser in office. Gore got the lowest % of votes from 18-24 year olds.
Now, the Silent Generation, I will grant you, has supported Republicans for decades and tend to vote in large numbers. So, if blaming yourself for the predicament you are in is just too stressful for you, blame those guys.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Seebach: You forgot Iraq and the Goldman Speeches! I wonder what you think those are, Dummy.
Nate Dawg
@Groucho48: Millennials voted for Ronald Reagan? How did they possibly do that if they weren’t even alive?
Seebach
@Omnes Omnibus: I understand your frustration that I will be voting for a Democrat this election, but I do find the Republican policies espoused in this thread distasteful in the extreme.
One mistake in a person’s life shouldn’t damn them to an existence of poverty and ill health. If the people here lack even this compassion, I fear for the future of the country.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Nate Dawg: when I suggested a drink, I meant one, maybe two, three tops. Maybe you oughta put the cap on that bottle and hit the sack
Groucho48
I said “you youngsters”, ya whippersnapper.
Seebach
@Groucho48: I’d forgive the boomers for everything if they would just shut the fuck up about the Beatles forever.
Renie
@Nate Dawg: so when you gonna start? or is it easier to blame others than take action yourself
Nate Dawg
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Okay. Good night y’all.
Mandarama
@Nate Dawg: I’m confused. I thought we were all supposed to do the voting. But I’m not as young as I look, so I might have missed something.
NotMax
@Renie
Some of it can be assigned to not experiencing the world pre-change. Those who grew up afterwards cannot truly comprehend the magnitude* of the change along with its concomitant ripples (socially, morally, politically, etc.), and whatever the contemporary luster, that dims with the passage of time.
One small example (staying away from a directly activist/political one): The Pill.
*Magnitude in no way intended to be confused with nor convey the ideal.
Ruckus
@Nate Dawg:
Hey numbnuts, your generation doesn’t have a hold on liberalism. Most of the people I know under 30 are conservative and at least say they vote republican but that’s not conclusive data for sure, any more than your claim that your generation could do it better. And I know and talk to more people under 30 every day than I do old farts. But most of the old farts I know are liberal. Societies go through periods of conservative and liberal, all of them. It sucks when conservatives win so if you want your generation to set the way, get them out to vote and figure out a way to get them all to vote democratic. Because they sure as fuck do not all vote that way. Otherwise you are just hot air and bullshit.
Cacti
@Nate Dawg:
Are all millennials as innumerate as you?
The War on Drugs started with Richard Nixon in 1971. No one born after 1947 was even old enough to have voted him into office in 1968.
Seebach
@efgoldman: You’re nonsensical. I can see why Clinton doesn’t want to release her “Goldman” speeches, ha ha. Yes, I’m a libertarian. This is totally actually real and not something you’ve decided on your own. The Beatles are cool.
Renie
@Seebach: just cuz we disagree with your boomer-bashing doesn’t mean we are against democratic policies. telling you to grow up and stop expecting free shit doesn’t mean we believe in republican policies either
you started the whole issue of boomer bashing complaining about social security and stated you didn’t want to pay for our social security and that is a republican talking point
FlipYrWhig
@Seebach: Who are you arguing against? Consider the possibility that people responding to you are egging you on, and enjoying watching you squirm.
Seebach
@FlipYrWhig: Nobody, really. Just actually trying to kill some time. People are weird.
Brachiator
@Nate Dawg: There ain’t no such thing as a best demographic. All groups will have to pull together behind whoever might become the Democratic Party nominee.
FlipYrWhig
BTW, the so-called liberal cable channel MSNBC has an obvious hate-bøner for Hillary Clinton, to the point where it’s kind of creepy.
Seebach
@Renie: I must have imagined the “Ute” shit
Also, please, tell me what “free” shit I am expecting. Nobody has ever made it clear what free shit I supposedly want
waysel
@Seebach: Now you’ve crossed the line!!!!
magurakurin
@Nate Dawg: If we’re gonna pin the blame it probably goes to younger Boomers (Jones) and older GenXers. And I remember it pretty well. I was growing my hair out, smoking reefer, tripping on acid and heading west in a 72 Microbus while everyone else my age around me was an aspiring Alex Keaton or Michael Milken. Fortunately, though, Obama was hitting the books and getting himself smart…
the culprits, how generations voted
Groucho48
@Seebach:
What would you forgive us for? Civil rights? Making the environment a concern? Protesting the war? The explosion of creativity in the arts? Putting a man on the moon? Getting Nixon impeached?
You’ve had a hard day’s night. It’s alright to call Help! The primary was yesterday. Just another day in the life. Meanwhile, one of these days you’ll be pondering what we boomers have been pondering. Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I’m 64?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: they want to be like the New York Times
Seebach
@Groucho48: The man on the moon thing was silly, because now you have people obsessed with space exploration which is a catastrophic mistake when corporations start mining planets.
waysel
@efgoldman: Yeah, I have quite mastered this linking business. O well.
Renie
He finally admits he’s a libertarian. That explains everything.
Thanks for playing…here’s your parting gift. Get lost.
Mandarama
@FlipYrWhig: I tried to warn of this, honest.
@Seebach: See, this is what I meant in my comment at 424. Now I’m supposed to feel bad for liking the Beatles, too, along with liking all the other people who are older than me or have more money than I do or who were the second-wave feminists that tried hard to get us the basic ERA. And yet you say others lack compassion while just swinging haymakers in all directions, OK, go ahead and make fun of my other shameful qualities: I drove a minivan when my babies were little, I like Nintendo games, and I grew up so poor in MS that I really like suburbia. I’m sure I can think of lots more.
Seebach
@Renie: Sarcasm isn’t your strong suit, eh? Jesus
FlipYrWhig
@Groucho48: The difficult thing will be when the kids of the 2048 cycle are clamoring for “authenticity,” not like that hidebound conservative Bernie Sanders from SO LONG AGO, who didn’t even say a single word about marriage between one person (to the degree that anyone identifies as a ‘person’ anymore) and one being of pure energy, and it’s shocking anyone would remember xim or zer as such a great liberal.
Cacti
@Seebach:
I know. I think about all of those poor little animals on Jupiter that could be displaced. Not to mention the natives there.
I’ve seen Avatar. I know how it goes down.
magurakurin
Is it like a jinx to mention it, like a perfect game in the dugout?
Seebach
Come. The. Fuck. On.
Just tell me what supposedly free thing I want for nothing that started this and I will never come back.
No one can answer what I’m, apparently, so insanely entitled about.
nutella
@Nate Dawg:
Wait, what? Trump is authentic? That bloviating bankrupt who’s been living on his daddy’s money all his life while claiming to be the greatest businessman ever? Authentic?!?!
Considering Trump and Sanders similar because they’re both un-typical presidential candidates makes sense, but calling Trump ‘authentic’ is asinine.
Just Some Fuckhead
@FlipYrWhig: Really? The MSNBC I’ve seen is giving her in-person and phone-in interviews and repeating the word “Revolution” over and over while telling the viewers that’s a scary thing.
As a Clinton supporter, I’m happy about that.
magurakurin
@Seebach: I think people are pissed that you basically said repeatedly that everyone older than you sucks.
But I think everyone sucks, so, bygones.
Renie
Being off this week, I’ve had fun finally having a chance to post a lot on one thread but Good Night to all my Beatle loving Baby Boomers who are getting free social security and medicare though most of us aren’t even retired yet. Make sure you all continue to go out and destroy the world for the younger generation!
magurakurin
@nutella: Trump is authentic in the same way that the WWE is authentic. But then again you still do find people who believe wrestling isn’t fake.
Seebach
@magurakurin: I wouldn’t be forced to be alive if you older people didn’t exist. Of course I resent you.
Seebach
@Renie: So you finally admit you are trying to destroy the world.
Thanks for playing.
Mandarama
@nutella: Not to mention Trump’s hilarious and awful performance as an upright, Bible-loving family man. Two Corinthians! Greatest book ever! Is he authentically an asshole? Yep, probably. But I’m not even 100% convinced on that one. It still seems like some weird performance art, like it was all to derail Jeb Bush or something.
magurakurin
@Seebach: That’s a good point, so long as you realize you aren’t the first one to feel it.
You got two choices, grow old or die. It’s a lesser of two evils thing…just like voting.
Cacti
Five hundred!
Seebach
@Mandarama: Trump is simply the logical conclusion of the Republicans spoiled heir theme, from Bush to McCain to Romney. It follows the logic to the ultimate extreme. Trump or Cruz will be the nominee, after Jeb and Rubio have shown themselves to be so unbelievably incompetent.
FlipYrWhig
@Just Some Fuckhead: the part I was watching was all about how badly this is going for her and that people aren’t going to put up with the status quo and that Bernie is rampaging through her former strongholds and they can’t believe her team wrote a long memo about the state of the race because omg they must be scared shitless.
Ruckus
@Renie:
Doing my every loving best.
Seebach
@magurakurin: Breeders are the most inconsiderate fucks of all.
magurakurin
@Cacti: I’d like to thank the people of New Hampshire for this TBogg Unit and a special thanks to Seebach for those late inning efforts. Onward to Nevada!
Mandarama
@Cacti: Is it the (dreaded/revered) T-bogg Unit? That’s what I get for leaving lurkerdom.
magurakurin
@Seebach: yeah, well, not my problem. Everyone is free to make their own choices. I don’t hold any malice against those who choose differently. I made my choices for myself, not for the world. I realized awhile ago it isn’t even remotely in my abilities to save the world and even more, it isn’t actually my responsibility.
Just Some Fuckhead
@FlipYrWhig: It is going badly for her. I’d say it’s a bad election cycle to run as a consummate insider but does anyone ever prevail that way?
Seebach
So, it’s clear I never asked for anything for free. Night. Work tomorrow.
NotMax
@Seebach
Okay, but only because you asked (and correctly included “supposedly”).
Your lament about “free social security [sic</em] and Medicare" in #223 and then further (and unsupportively) bemoaning that you will be denied the same.
Buh-bye.
Renie
@Seebach: only yours cuz you only care about yourself
FlipYrWhig
@Just Some Fuckhead: GHW Bush won that way. I don’t think that’s what she’s doing, though. I think she’s running on the premise that she would be good at being president, which is probably true. Bernie is running on the premise that shit is fucked up and bullshit and we ought to be good and mad about that. I find that routine leaves me cold, but I’m never sure that my reactions to people are anywhere close to universal.
David *Rafael* Koch
@FlipYrWhig: They dislike Clinton because she’s not a liberal. She’s not. She’s liberal on some issue, but overall she’s a moderate-centrist. Chris Hayes and Rachel openly dislike Clinton and like Sanders. Everyone is entitled their their view; there’s nothing wrong with that.
eta: that said, Sanders didn’t support gays either, infamously calling gay marriage “divisive”. But perceptions are reality.
Kropadope
@efgoldman: I didn’t know this was considered a professional environment !?!?!
David *Rafael* Koch
@Cacti: show-off
Applejinx
Wow.
I guess Bernie Sanders really did win by more than twenty points. ‘cos look at this comment thread, and the other one. o_O
Goodnight, Balloon Juice.
FlipYrWhig
@David *Rafael* Koch: OK, but that doesn’t explain why the network should have Maddow and Hayes hitting her from the left, Steve Schmidt hitting from the right, Chris Matthews doing personality and his weird Always 1970 vibe, Lawrence O’Donnell doing… something, Andrea Mitchell being Very Concerned With Sources, and Mark Halperin and that other doof being Very Concerned With Optics. Give it a rest.
Just Some Fuckhead
@FlipYrWhig: I like the way you characterized her campaign because it gels with something I’ve picked up on that she does which is talk about herself a lot. Then I look at Bernie and he’s talking about others.
But I worry that I’m letting anti-Clinton bias affect my judgment.
Kropadope
@David *Rafael* Koch: I’ll check out his comments in fuller detail sometime soon, but from that one word it sounds more like that was a fight he wasn’t ready to take on yet. It’s true that back then there was more heat than light in the tone of the gay rights debate. Maybe he was waiting for the culture to change, which is ultimately what happened td the great strides forward we’ve had.
FlipYrWhig
@David *Rafael* Koch: BTW, as a 20-year old straight person in 1992, I remember Bill Clinton getting a lot of credit for being the first President to say the word “gay,” sympathetically, in a State of the Union. He tried to get gays safely into the military. I have never heard this contention that Bill Clinton circa 1992 wasn’t pro-gay enough. Seems a bit like a ret-con to me.
Kropadope
@FlipYrWhig: As a gay person who was 9 in 1992, I don’t begrudge Bill Clinton his record toward gay people whatsoever. He found a good compromise to allow gay people to serve in the military. I’m against DOMA, but the bigger fault I have with it was about state sovereignty.
FlipYrWhig
@Just Some Fuckhead: He talks about others to the point where I don’t really see what the stuff is that he will do as him, sitting in the office at the desk. It makes me nervous that it’s so heavy on the symbolic side and shared outrage. God knows I enjoy outrage but there need to be steps to make the outrage an agenda. I don’t think he’s done that and I don’t really think he ever thought he’d have to. But I really do think Hillary is the cynical Leslie Knope, and I _like that_, not because it’s a ball of laughs or a ball of inspiration or a ball of rage but because at a certain point you have to sit down and figure out steps 2-167, and that’s her strong suit.
Just Some Fuckhead
@FlipYrWhig: Three examples of how she did 2-167.
Groucho48
As I recall, back then, Clinton got a lot of blow-back from Villagers at the start of his Presidency for spending all his political capital on gay rights instead of on “important stuff”.
PJ
@Nate Dawg: Unwillingness to claim us, got no war to name us . . .
FlipYrWhig
@Just Some Fuckhead: Well, I admit there to making a leap of my own. But if she toured NY to the point where she knew their local issues upstate and wasn’t considered a carpetbagger anymore, and the way so many people say she can speak with authority on matters big and small, that’s a habit I respect and that I _assume_ (I admit) means plan-making skill as well. I have to leave it there tonight.
David *Rafael* Koch
@Kropadope: I realize that. My point was Rachel’s stated basis for disliking Clinton overlooks the fact that Sanders held the same position.
I’m not trying to knock either, since they both were in the same boat. Although, when you think about it Sanders should have come around more quickly since he was in a deep, deep blue hippie country (Berkeley East), and not in blood red, backwards Arkansas.
Eric
@efgoldman:
Except Romney (08) and Teddy.
David *Rafael* Koch
@FlipYrWhig: Come to think of it, you’re right about this. Clinton took holy hell when he tried to lift the ban on gays in the military. Now politically he didn’t handle it the right way. I read a book on how Truman desegregated the military and Clark Clifford detailed political skill involved. Just like recognizing Israel in ’48, it was a heavy lift. Clinton didn’t lay the ground work in congress and the pentagon. But he did openly campaign on the issue in 1992, it wasn’t like he was echoing Rachel’s dear friend Pat Buchanan.
Eric
@David *Rafael* Koch: What on Earth are you on about? Rachel is contrasting her experience in ’92, when the Democrat is being pulled to the right by the effectiveness of Conservative populism with the experience of young voters in 2016, where the presumptive nominee is being pulled left by the effectiveness of a Liberal populist.
Kropadope
@David *Rafael* Koch: Well, Rachel Maddow is on televised news. Doesn’t that make her a hack by definition?
Just Some Fuckhead
@FlipYrWhig: By that standard, Bernie Sanders is a 2-12000 guy since he moved to Vermont and did the same thing – from nothing. No built in support like Clinton had.
David *Rafael* Koch
@Eric: I realize she’s saying that. But she’s saying more. She’s additionally denouncing Clinton circa 1992, specifically on cultural issues. She’s singling Clinton out when Sanders wasn’t any different. I’m sorry if you can’t see that.
As to today, Sanders isn’t pulling Clinton to the left on cultural issues. It’s the other way around (Guns, BLM, Planned Parenthood). If it wasn’t for Clinton he would still be supporting blanket immunity for the NRA and shouting down BLM activists.
David *Rafael* Koch
@Kropadope: She’s very smart. Her opening segments are usually too long, but she does some great work. She’s not Chuck Todd
That said, you’re right most talking heads are hacks.
David *Rafael* Koch
@Just Some Fuckhead:
New York: 4th largest state, 20,000,000 million people, diverse state. 469 subway stations, 37 languages, 62 counties, GDP (#3) $1.4 trillion
Vermont: 2nd smallest state, 600,000 people, no crime, 2 bus lines, homogeneous, 14 counties, GDP (#50) $29 billion
Both sides!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Nate Dawg: Ah, no, When did boomers vote for Republicans? Go ahead, check the exit polls from Presidential elections. Boomers were folk born between 1946 and 1964. A bit of math will be required.
ETA: I’m really getting sick of the Boomers are responsible for Republican policies crap.
satby
@mclaren: actually, fuck you for this comment. If you had to live my life you’d be begging to be put out of your misery, and that’s after 45 years of hard work at sometimes multiple jobs at once. Blanket statements are pretty much always wrong and you excellent at both.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Renie:
But, but! My TV says “both sides!”
But, but! My TV says “establishment politicians!”
But, but! My TV says “Bernie or Trump!”
You mean my TV is wrong?!? You mean there is a difference between HRC and Ted Cruz?!? You mean elections do have consequences?!?!
It’s all so confusing…
/snark
“Boomers” is a term that doesn’t have much meaning for understanding people’s opinions and policies. People born in 1946-1947 (HRC and DJT) really aren’t that much like people born in 1961 (BHO, me) – at least not in ways that can be shrunk to a birthdate. It would be nice if political arguments weren’t so reductionist…
Cheers,
Scott.
FlipYrWhig
@Eric: Bill Clinton wasn’t “pulled to the right” by Pat Buchanan’s RNC speech. That makes no sense. He was pulled to the right by the way that Republicans decided they’d only support Republican priorities, so he rode with their agenda to pull it to the left, and it worked beautifully (politically at least) for him — which is why the 2008 Republicans decided that they wouldn’t even work with Obama _on Republican priorities_, lest he be seen as getting things done, working across the aisle, etc.
satby
@FlipYrWhig: History, how does that work? / snark
Thank you. It’s like we have to reinvent the wheel of knowledge for every campaign.
satby
@Corner Stone: I miss you dude, late night is just not my prime time. As one of your 3friends ;)
Paul in KY
@lamh36: He isn’t ‘sore’, but he should have stayed in that post game presser & taken his medicine.
I know he was very gracious to Manning after game.
gvg
@Nate Dawg: No income inequality is NOT the number one issue with all Democratic voters. Its actually a problem and something I am concerned about but listen around more places than your own life. I am white from a safe background and to me the number one issue is stopping the murder and robbery of minorities by authority. Stopping these fascists from getting power and doing more torture is another serious concern. Stopping the war on women is a big concern, those religious nuts are scarey. THEN i get down to things like the income inequality and some civil rights issues like too much data monitoring and voter suppression.
I have been concerned about the income inequality for a long time…noticed it was getting bad around 2000 but that is just overshadowed by these other threats that amount to physical bullying. Clinton is more in tune with my fears, Sanders isn’t.
Other people order their concerns differently. I have found out in the past and articulated well in basic statistics class that the average is a kind of amalgamation of everyone and doesn’t actually match any one person you know. We need to have more actual primaries and votes before we can see what the whole of us thinks. Its way too early.
Assuming everyone or at least most people agree with you is common but mostly it turns out to be wrong.
We really could use some concentration on the wealth disparity but I happen to think it’s going to have to wait again because the GOP descent into crazy is just so frightening that many people are going to concentrate on safe stoppers. I can be wrong. A few more votes and we will all have more facts.
Paul in KY
@Cacti: Maybe the Raiders. He seems like their kind of whackjob.