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You are here: Home / Absent Friends / RIP / Rest in Peace, Patty Duke

Rest in Peace, Patty Duke

by Betty Cracker|  March 29, 20161:18 pm| 107 Comments

This post is in: RIP

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Wow, this sucks. Among my earliest memories are watching reruns of “The Patty Duke Show” with my mom when I was a kid. Mom was a big fan, and they were around the same age. Gone too soon.

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Reader Interactions

107Comments

  1. 1.

    Punchy

    March 29, 2016 at 1:20 pm

    You guys just got word that Duke died today? Pretty sure this all went down last Thursday. Death by a Duck, IIRC.

  2. 2.

    BGinCHI

    March 29, 2016 at 1:24 pm

    Not to Mansteal the thread, but I always liked John Astin. Probably because I’m a sucker for a comedy western.

  3. 3.

    kd bart

    March 29, 2016 at 1:25 pm

    Valley of the Dolls will live on for eternity.

    RIP Patty Duke

  4. 4.

    Keith G

    March 29, 2016 at 1:26 pm

    Among my earliest memories are watching reruns of “The Patty Duke Show” with my mom when I was a kid.

    I watched the show in it’s original airing.

    I think she was a lovely person in all aspects that I was aware of.

  5. 5.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    March 29, 2016 at 1:26 pm

    @Punchy: Took me a minute, because I was thinking about Patty Duke, among the first celebrities to come out with a brain disorder, in her case, Bipolar Disorder (formerly known as manic depression).

    @BGinCHI: Going wildly OT, would you explain regional English accents – and how they happen – over there again? Thanks in advance if you will.

  6. 6.

    Elizabelle

    March 29, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    Two death posts, in quick succession.

    The deserving dead, unlamented.

    And then — Patty Duke. Gone before her time. And missed.

    PS: Let me know if we ever hear where Scalia is buried. Site appears to still be undisclosed. Find a Grave cannot find his, yet.

    Maybe he’s with Cheney, in that bunker.

    It is not usual for a Supreme Court justice to be buried somewhere secret, is it? I know Earl Warren is at Arlington …

  7. 7.

    Hoodie

    March 29, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    Feeling a bit old with all these famous 60-somethings dying. I thought we were all supposed to keep working until 70. Did anyone tell Paul Ryan?

  8. 8.

    Mike J

    March 29, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    Tom TomorrowVerified account @tomtomorrow
    Well it’s not even noon Eastern and Trump’s campaign manager has been arrested for battery and hired a lawyer who once bit a stripper

  9. 9.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 29, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    @Elizabelle: Amen.

    I might point out that the universe still sucks…Dick Cheney remains animated while Patty Duke has left us.

  10. 10.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 29, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    @BGinCHI: Evil Roy Slade was pure genius.

  11. 11.

    Elie

    March 29, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    @Hoodie:

    This is exactly why I keep bitching about the ages of our candidates. After 60 or so, risks go up. Patty died they say, of a ruptured intestine. Possibly diverticulitis ? Lots of folks get that after 60 though most not as severe, but yep, you can die.

    Bernie is 74 folks. Hillary is 68. Crossed fingers all around. On the other side, Trump is 70. Shit happens.

  12. 12.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 29, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    @Elie: Alas, Rafael is 46. Still plenty of space left on the odometer there.

  13. 13.

    scav

    March 29, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Just in case you would enjoy a long, roundabout answer, there’s The History of English podcast. And it might help your pondering to flip your question too, why was one regional dialect chosen to be standard or RP? Similar things happened in France, Italy German. Without mass broadcast media, and even more without general literacy, — or common long-distance general travel — it’s a lot easier to maintain and develop regional dialects (especially given a complex history of foreign settlement). Sorry to jump in like that.

  14. 14.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    March 29, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    @scav: Thanks for that! I always enjoy long and roundabout answers. You must be new here if you’re apologizing for jumping in.

    I recall (or think I do) BGinCHI telling us that for required educational English, students there could select a US or UK dialect track. Which cracked me up for reasons I can’t explain.

  15. 15.

    BGinCHI

    March 29, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
    @scav: Thanks for doing so. There is no short, easy answer.

    Accents are sometimes the vestige of a dialect (the two should not be confused…). They are sometimes, most obviously, the result of one language crashing into another (a native Japanese person, for ex., who learns to speak English and retains an accent).

    In England I don’t know if this is an exact science (I’m not a linguist, though I am cunning). Regional differences are sometimes dialect vestiges, sometimes influenced by other languages that were insurgent or influential there (Norse, for ex.). But sometimes they are also just due to isolation and drift (someone trained in this will weigh in and correct my awkwardness here).

    OK, all I have time for….

  16. 16.

    scav

    March 29, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Just didn’t want to interfere in any pre-existing conversational thread — mere roundabout information I fling about without even waiting for plummeting headgear.

  17. 17.

    Linnaeus

    March 29, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    You might be interested in this British Library website on regional accents in Britain.

  18. 18.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @scav: Thanks, I will hear that. This is true about Indian languages too. For example, the canonical version of Marathi is the dialect of western and coastal Maharashtra as spoken by the upper castes. If you speak another dialect you immediately signal your status or more accurately, the lack thereof.

  19. 19.

    BGinCHI

    March 29, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Oh, shit, I misunderstood your question!

    You mean in Norway.

    Students when they start learning English here can choose whether to take courses from someone with an English or American accent. And they usually retain this.

    It can be jarring and weird but it’s also very cool. My students’ English at U of Bergen was amazing.

  20. 20.

    Mustang Bobby

    March 29, 2016 at 1:51 pm

    Patty Duke was truly a star, not just on stage and screen, but for taking on the advocacy for mental illness and surviving growing up too fast.

    (The theme song to the show was one of those that sticks in your head forever, and those of us who were around for the original airing can still recite it without a hitch.)

  21. 21.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    One I used to watch religiously. Was a funny, family friendly show. RIP, Patty!

  22. 22.

    Linnaeus

    March 29, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    Students when they start learning English here can choose whether to take courses from someone with an English or American accent.

    Which English or American accent? :)

  23. 23.

    PurpleGirl

    March 29, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    RIP Patty Duke. Condolences to her family and friends.

    I watched the Patty Duke Show in its original run.

  24. 24.

    Elizabelle

    March 29, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    @Elie: All true. Meanwhile, Paul Ryan is vigorous and P90X buff, aged 46. Which still makes him nowhere suited to be POTUS.

    Although: my my: per wiki:

    Because of a family history of fatal heart attacks before age 60, Ryan pursues an intense cross-training fitness program called P90X. He is “fairly careful” about what he eats and makes his own bratwurst and Polish sausage.

  25. 25.

    Benw

    March 29, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    @Elie: a senile Bernillary would still have more functional brain cells to rub together than Trump. Also, senility is such a sweet defense at those pesky Congressional hearings about extreme extra-legal executive action!

  26. 26.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 1:57 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Do individuals in lower castes try to speak that accent (the high caste one)?

    In your opinion, how hard would it be for someone hundreds of miles from their home province to fake being a Brahmin?

  27. 27.

    PurpleGirl

    March 29, 2016 at 1:57 pm

    @BGinCHI: According to my penpal Harald, besides learning English in school, Norwegian TV showed a lot of shows from England and American. They didn’t dub them into Norwegian but subtitled them in Norwegian (cheaper) and children and adults could hear English on the TV. It helped them with what they were learning in school.

  28. 28.

    ruemara

    March 29, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    James Noble also just died. Played the lovable but dim Governor on Benson. All the people who babysat me are dying.

  29. 29.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    @BGinCHI: Hope you & family are still having a great time in Norway!

  30. 30.

    Jay C

    March 29, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    @scav:

    Very true. and “standardization” of languages (spoken word, that is) really didn’t take off until the advent of mass radio broadcasting in the 1920s.
    I recall reading, once, an article (with soundtracks) about some German philologists during WWI, who (apparently having nothing else to do) did a series of interviews with British POW’s – they had them read a set text (the Prodigal Son parable from the KJV Bible), and recorded the results. It was interesting that Englishmen from different areas still retained distinctive regional accents: which in the pre-mass-media days were far more variable (and localized) than today.

  31. 31.

    Origuy

    March 29, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    British comedian Siobhan Thompson claims to be able to do 17 British accents. People in the comments dispute her take on some of them, but she’s cute as a button, IMO. The whole Anglophenia channel is amusing.

  32. 32.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    @Elizabelle: Getting that heart rate up all the time thru P90X, and with that history, could prove problematic one day…

  33. 33.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    When anyone mentions Hillary’s age, I tell them that Trump’s prostate is older than Hillary, and watch them try to process that info.

    I was a little kid when The Patty Duke Show first was on, and loved it – the first time I ever heard the words “crepe suzette”. I just thought the show was so sophisticated.

  34. 34.

    MattF

    March 29, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    @Origuy: Here’s a youtube video on Spanish accents.

  35. 35.

    JPL

    March 29, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    @ruemara: He was 94. He was perfect in that role.

  36. 36.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    @Paul in KY: That’s accent you would learn as the canonical accent in schools etc on TV news etc. So kids do learn that irrespective of caste/region if they grow up in Maharashtra.
    Hard to fake caste with anyone who is actually from India. People will immediately place you knowing your last name. Its considered an impertinent question to ask directly. What would be the point anyway? Its like class in the UK.

  37. 37.

    ruemara

    March 29, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    This year has been full of old guard Hollywood deaths & music deaths. Very upsetting even when it’s people who have lived full lives. But David Bowie should have had a couple more decades.

  38. 38.

    dogwood

    March 29, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    OMG. Her 4th husband is a guy I knew casually in high school. I met her when I wandered up to the Valley for the yearly county festival. They hadn’t been married long at the time, so it must have been close to 30 years ago. They met on a movie set when he was in the military, got married and moved to rural northern Idaho where he was a firefighter. It’s a sweet, kooky story.

  39. 39.

    gogol's wife

    March 29, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    He is hilarious in That Touch of Mink.

    All these years I never realized there was a “Duck Soup” reference in that intro. As a kid it went over my head.

  40. 40.

    Ben Cisco

    March 29, 2016 at 2:12 pm

    @ruemara: Was just coming here to post it: http://www.syracuse.com/celebrity-news/index.ssf/2016/03/james_noble_dead_benson_10_actor_and_broadway_veteran_was_94.html

    He had a nice long run.

  41. 41.

    gogol's wife

    March 29, 2016 at 2:12 pm

    @Elie:

    You sound like my husband! He’s Debbie Downer.

  42. 42.

    Origuy

    March 29, 2016 at 2:12 pm

    @MattF: I learned Mexican Spanish, but started to affect a Castilian accent after three weeks in Spain. I notice she didn’t do that one, other than mention the Castilian lisp.

  43. 43.

    LAO

    March 29, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    @ruemara:

    But David Bowie should have had a couple more decades.

    I loved (and still love Bowie) and I could not believe how affected by his death I was — But seriously, after the all the drugs, its a miracle his liver lasted as long as it did.

    PS — people were still “visiting” the makeshift memorial in front his apartment building in SOHO the last time I walked past about 2 weeks ago.

  44. 44.

    gogol's wife

    March 29, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    And this from Valley of the Dolls:

    “I have to get up at five o’clock in the morning and SPARKLE, Neely, SPARKLE!”

    is taken from the life of Shirley Temple. Her mother always said “Sparkle, Shirley, sparkle,” to Shirley before every take. I forgot that was in VOTD. I can’t find her great alley monologue, though, what is it? “It’s me, God, Neely!”??

  45. 45.

    dogwood

    March 29, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    If DVDs had existed when I was a little girl, I would have watched The Miracle Worker every day.

  46. 46.

    Mnemosyne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    I’ve heard that it’s not uncommon to hear people in Spain speaking English with an Irish accent since a lot of Irish go there to teach English.

    French actress Julie Delpy usually sounds “different” than other French actresses because she learned English with an American accent when learning it with a British accent is more common.

  47. 47.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @gogol’s wife: We all come with an unknown expiration date, being relatively young does not give any immunity. My cousin’s B-I-L died at 38 of a heart attack, no known history of BP or diabetes. His father was a physician as was his brother.

  48. 48.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @Mike J:

    Trump’s campaign manager has been arrested for battery and hired a lawyer who once bit a stripper

    Umm.

    Okay then.

  49. 49.

    Mnemosyne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    @LAO:

    I hadn’t seen the final announcement, but I think Bowie’s death was more tobacco-related than any illegal drugs. When my dad died of emphysema, he also had kidney and liver tumors thanks to tobacco.

  50. 50.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Obviously this hypothetical person is trying to fake & thus has a fake name, etc.

    What else gives you away besides last name/accent?

  51. 51.

    Elizabelle

    March 29, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    Kendall Coffey, the stripper-biter, was appointed US Attorney by Bill Clinton.

    And was one of Al Gore’s lawyers in the 2000 Florida debacle.

  52. 52.

    MattF

    March 29, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: One assumes Lewandowsky set the bar low enough to let him hire a pal.

  53. 53.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    March 29, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: There’s lots of amazing (to me – but likely highly entertaining to many others too) backstory to all that. I’m sending links to Adam since he’s our front page criminal courts news junkie supplier. Perhaps he’ll post them this evening.

  54. 54.

    Mnemosyne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:32 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    That’s why I always find the Greek myth of the Fates to be compelling. They spin, measure, and cut the thread of each person’s life, and there’s no way to know where they’re going to decide to snip it.

  55. 55.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 2:33 pm

    @Paul in KY: What your parents do, where you are from, how you speak and a million other things. So its possible but would be difficult to pull off, as you would have to be on your guard, always, like Eliza Doolittle.

    I have actually tried the reverse, telling people that I was an untouchable, if some impertinent person did ask. No one ever believed me. They would nod and smile indulgently.

  56. 56.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @gogol’s wife:

    All these years I never realized there was a “Duck Soup” reference in that intro. As a kid it went over my head.

    And I thought for years that Patty and Cathy were referencing the scene with Lucy and Harpo on an old “I Love Lucy” episode! Like you, I didn’t learn about the original for a very long time.

  57. 57.

    scav

    March 29, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Trump’s campaign manager has been arrested for battery and hired a lawyer who once bit a stripper

    Taken with Trump’s full-hearted support, what we are witnessing here is concerted campaign message discipline.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    March 29, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    @scav:

    Just in case you would enjoy a long, roundabout answer, there’s The History of English podcast.

    Arrgh! Another interesting podcast to add to my list. I’m going to have to get a new job so I have a longer commute and can listen to all I am accumulating.

  59. 59.

    Miss Bianca

    March 29, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    @scav:

    Another thing I find fascinating – and maybe that podcast goes into it – is how that plummy BBC-announcer accent – which is ubiquitous now and which we on this side of the ocean find so posh and upper-crust – would have been more associated with the middle class in Victorian/Edwardian times. When I was first watching the Lord Peter Wimsey BBC series with Ian Carmichael, I remember being surprised by the quick, rushy tempo of his Lord Peter’s speech – which one of my acting teachers/dialect coaches told me *was* very representative of the upper classes at the time and was more like what *Georgian* era speech sounded like!

    ETA: I guess it’s the “speech time lag” aspect that fascinates me here – the more upper-class you were, the more your speech patterns hearkened back to older times…

  60. 60.

    smintheus

    March 29, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    OT, but how do you write an article on this study of crazy ideas that white Republicans have about Obama supposedly favoring blacks without bothering to point out that it was GOP leaders who disseminated those crazy ideas from the start? Yglesias acts as if Trump was an accidental wrong turn, an unintended about-face, by the Republican Party. But his type demagoguery has been the point all along; they just wanted it done with dog-whistles rather than train-whistles.

  61. 61.

    Fair Economist

    March 29, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    But sometimes they are also just due to isolation and drift (someone trained in this will weigh in and correct my awkwardness here).

    Actually regional accents develop spontaneously for reasons that aren’t understood at all, even without isolation. Contrary to popular opinion, American accents are diverging, although the most famous regional accent, Southern, has actually weakened in the past generation. Two significant and recent developments are the California accent and my favorite, the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, a fairly marked shift that, oddly, confuses even speakers when individual words are taken out of context.

    I’ve had some amusing run-ins with both; my son (young and thus pretty progressive in Californian) got very upset when I pronounced “school” as ‘skuel’, when, of course, the correct pronunciation is ‘skue-wul’. He also mocks my short “u” which somehow picked up some NCVS when I was in Chicago a few years and which to him sounds more like a short “o”.

  62. 62.

    smintheus

    March 29, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    @Elie: Trump looks physically worse as every day passes. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a major health crisis during the campaign.

  63. 63.

    JustRuss

    March 29, 2016 at 2:42 pm

    Patty Duke was in reruns when I was a kid, only time I watched it was when nothing else was on, so I have kind of an aversion to it. Of course, I thought girls were icky at the time. And honestly, identical cousins? I realize that’s a show biz trope, but even at 8 years old I couldn’t buy it. Catchy theme song though.

  64. 64.

    Miss Bianca

    March 29, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    @Jay C:

    Still an amazing variation in British and Irish regional accents, compared to over here.

  65. 65.

    smintheus

    March 29, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Even today the upper classes in the UK don’t speak in BBCese. Their speech is much more impenetrable than would be acceptable from on air announcers.

  66. 66.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Am asking, because back in times when Irish were somewhat persecuted (compared to blacks/American Indians), you would have an Irish man (usually a man) who had made some good money somehow & would reinvent themselves as English & marry into American version of Brahmins. From what I have read, if they liked the guy & of course, the female usually was all for them, they wouldn’t delve too deeply into his past (which would be presumably 3,000 miles away across an ocean) & everything would be fine.

    Was wondering if same could happen over there.

  67. 67.

    Miss Bianca

    March 29, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    I’m sending links to Adam since he’s our front page criminal courts news junkie supplier. Perhaps he’ll post them this evening.

    Oh, great, now you’re a pusher as well as a junkie? ; )

    Don’t you people realize I have writing and Star Trek to catch up on at night??

  68. 68.

    Brachiator

    March 29, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    French actress Julie Delpy usually sounds “different” than other French actresses because she learned English with an American accent when learning it with a British accent is more common.

    And I understand that British actress Kristin Scott Thomas speaks French very well (and apparently has lived in France for many years).

    On the other hand, Michelle Dockery, who played the snobbish aristocrat Lady Mary in Downton Abbey, is apparently really an Essex Girl. Her natural accent would make her more the equivalent of Snooki on The Jersey Shore.

  69. 69.

    Anoniminous

    March 29, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    @Mike J:

    Best. Election. Ever.

    Obama won the woman vote by 11 points in 2012. Beginning to think the Democratic nominee will win that demographic by (roughly) 91 points this year.

  70. 70.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @JustRuss: I was around 13 or 14 & thought that if could have a GF or wife like Patty, that would be A-OK with me!

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    G is tutoring someone whose first language is Spanish and she’s constantly amazed (and a little frustrated) that words can be pronounced so differently than the way they’re spelled, and that those pronounciations can vary so widely.

    She has had particular trouble understanding the “schwa,” and apparently that’s something that often baffles even native English speakers.

  72. 72.

    Mnemosyne

    March 29, 2016 at 2:52 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Fun TV fact: on “Frasier,” Jane Leeves’ character is supposed to be from Manchester, but Leeves is from Essex. So they had one of her Manchester native costars coach her: John Mahoney, who immigrated here when he was 19 and worked to lose his original accent and gain a Chicago one instead.

  73. 73.

    Percysowner

    March 29, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    The Miracle Worker was on one of the movie channels a few months ago. I DVRd it and watched it and then couldn’t bring myself to delete it. I’m glad now, because I can go back and watch it again tonight.

  74. 74.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    @Paul in KY: Its possible. Traditionally though, its military valor that has helped breach caste barriers. Rajputs in northern India, Marathas in western India and Nairs in south India are examples of previously lower caste people being considered Kshatriyas (warrior caste/ landed gentry) on the basis of military valor. Brahmins guard their caste privilege far more zealously. They would rather shun members from their own group for breaching some tradition than accept other people into the fold.

  75. 75.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Just tell her: There really aren’t a lot of English words that use ‘schwa’, so just try & avoid them.

    See, fixed (wipes hands off, heads to another tough problem).

  76. 76.

    Brachiator

    March 29, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    John Mahoney, who immigrated here when he was 19 and worked to lose his original accent and gain a Chicago one instead.

    Didn’t know about his background. Very interesting.

    I listen to a BBC comedy podcast, The Now Show. When they do skits on American politics, They can never get Trump’s accent or way of speaking right. Their “American” just sounds loud and blustery, but no trace of New York at all.

  77. 77.

    ruemara

    March 29, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    @LAO: if I go to NYC Comic-Con, I will too. Can’t believe how much I miss him.

    @Brachiator: to be fair, I’m from NYC, I sound very bland ‘murrican. Not all of us have the accent.

  78. 78.

    Paul in KY

    March 29, 2016 at 3:06 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: If some Indian Bollywood star (male), who was technically from a lower caste, but was great dude & super wealthy, etc. was to marry a Brahmin girl, would that be considered OK? I bet it just has to do with the individual Brahmin family.

    Would it matter at all if the hypothetical Bollywood star was female & marrying in?

  79. 79.

    Origuy

    March 29, 2016 at 3:07 pm

    @Paul in KY: Religion made a difference, of course. You could go a lot further if you were Church of Ireland (Anglican), than if you were Roman Catholic. You would probably be exposed to more English accents, too, if you went to a Protestant church.

  80. 80.

    dogwood

    March 29, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    @Percysowner:
    I remember reading about the physical punnishment doled out night after night when it ran on Broadway. I can’t imagine doing that dining room scene live for months on end. They were both nursing painful injuries constantly.

  81. 81.

    WereBear

    March 29, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    Patty Duke initiated the role of Hellen Keller in The Miracle Worker on Broadway, with Anne Bancroft.

    Had a terribly neglected upbringing. Ironically, she said the role of Cathy was easy for her, she had been so drilled in perfect manners and being older than her years. Patty, the normal American teenager, was her acting challenge.

    And yet was wonderfully talented and remarkably down to earth, raising all of Astin’s sons (only some of whom were hers) and being a mental health advocate.

    Sorry to see her go.

  82. 82.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    @Paul in KY: These days caste differences are not what they used to be. Again as with everything there is a lot of variation regionally. In south India, the Brahmins consider all other castes to be shudras (untouchables) and are pretty strict about tradition, not so much in other parts of India.
    Your case is certainly possible. Although upper castes dominate most fields in India, since they have had a generational head start over everyone else.

    Even so inter-caste and inter-region marriages are not common.

    A historical example for you: Bajirao who was a Brahmin by birth and the highest administrative official and the winningest general for the Marathas even he could not get his and Mastani’s son christened as a Hindu, they brought up their son as Muslim. Mastani was half Muslim.

  83. 83.

    Brachiator

    March 29, 2016 at 3:24 pm

    @ruemara:

    to be fair, I’m from NYC, I sound very bland ‘murrican. Not all of us have the accent.

    No, here it’s more a case that the American accent does not sound like any place in America. It is a British person trying to sound American.

    English actor Paul Blackthorne plays an American cop on “Arrow,” and he does a good job, but every now and then his accent sounds not just non-regional but just kinda off.

    Blackthorne also apparently spent six months learning Hindi for a role in the 2001 Bollywood film Lagaan.

  84. 84.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    @Brachiator: He didn’t sound like a native Hindi speaker either, but he didn’t have to for the movie.

    Tom Alter, who is a son of American missionaries and grew up in Mussoorie in north India, speaks better Hindi than me. He gave up Yale to be an actor in Hindi movies.

  85. 85.

    leeleeFL

    March 29, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    @Mustang Bobby: Just sang it the other day! I burst into tears when I saw the post. She was awesome and Sean was amazing in LOTR. So sad.

  86. 86.

    gogol's wife

    March 29, 2016 at 3:41 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I just love to hear her speak in her real voice! It confirms what a good actress she is. She’s really kind of sweet and goofy.

  87. 87.

    Brachiator

    March 29, 2016 at 3:41 pm

    @WereBear:

    Had a terribly neglected upbringing.

    Almost tragic, in many ways. Her parents were abusive and after age 8 she was raised by her talent managers, who changed her name from Anna to Patty and may have exploited her more than nurtured her.

    I hope she had some peace in her later years.

  88. 88.

    gogol's wife

    March 29, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I’m in the minority of people who think Hugh Laurie’s American accent in House was not that good. And I love Hugh Laurie.

    Foyle’s War was big on having people braying in pseudo-“American” accents too.

  89. 89.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 29, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, Lucy and Harpo were referencing Duck Soup in that bit.

  90. 90.

    Brachiator

    March 29, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    He didn’t sound like a native Hindi speaker either, but he didn’t have to for the movie.

    I wondered about this. We can give him an E for Effort.

    Tom Alter, who is a son of American missionaries and grew up in Mussoorie in north India, speaks better Hindi than me. He gave up Yale to be an actor in Hindi movies.

    I looked up his biography. He seems to have had quite a career and been well respected.

    I liked one description of Alter: the “Blue-eyed saheb with impeccable Hindi.”

  91. 91.

    Brachiator

    March 29, 2016 at 3:59 pm

    @gogol’s wife:

    I’m in the minority of people who think Hugh Laurie’s American accent in House was not that good. And I love Hugh Laurie.

    I agree with you. I was always amazed when people would praise his American accent.

    I think that John Ratzenberger (Cliff Clavin in Cheers) lived in England for a while, and popped up in shows as the official American character.

    Foyle’s War was big on having people braying in pseudo-“American” accents too.

    This had to be tough since Americans (Army officers, etc) often were important parts of an episode. BTW, this is one of my all time favorite shows. Foyle’s combination of sharp intelligence and moral decency, just great. And Michael Kitchen is just great in the role.

  92. 92.

    Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim

    March 29, 2016 at 4:02 pm

    And William Schallert, who played Patty’s dad, is in his 90’s. The weird part is he’s still getting work.

  93. 93.

    WereBear

    March 29, 2016 at 4:06 pm

    @Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim: William Schallert might just hold the world’s record for being in the most things; movies, TV, you name it.

    Sometimes, TCM will have six or seven in a row, and there he is in bit parts.

  94. 94.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 4:09 pm

    @Brachiator: The Hindi accents of the younger Indian characters (played by Brits of Indian origin) in Indian Summers were jarring and atrocious and one of the reasons I couldn’t get into the show. The other was the location, tropical Malaysia as a stand in for temperate Shimla, where it even snows in the winter.

  95. 95.

    Mnemosyne

    March 29, 2016 at 4:15 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    From what I’ve heard, accents are more a matter of innate “ear” than talent. It’s the actor’s equivalent of having perfect pitch.

  96. 96.

    Mnemosyne

    March 29, 2016 at 4:16 pm

    @WereBear:

    Sometimes TCM does that on purpose. Their programmers seem to be easily amused in the same ways I am.

  97. 97.

    Fair Economist

    March 29, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    G is tutoring someone whose first language is Spanish and she’s constantly amazed (and a little frustrated) that words can be pronounced so differently than the way they’re spelled, and that those pronounciations can vary so widely.

    She has had particular trouble understanding the “schwa,” and apparently that’s something that often baffles even native English speakers.

    English has problems with the pronunciation because pronunciations shift faster than spellings and the spellings have been left FAR behind in many cases. I’m no longer a spelling critic for that reason.

    The “schwa” is complicated because it’s another thing that’s changing – the “schwa” is weakening and the short vowels are re-emerging. All typical language evolution.

  98. 98.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 29, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Husband kitteh has that ear with accents, he somehow manages to speak like the person he is speaking to, he does it unconsciously.

  99. 99.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    March 29, 2016 at 4:43 pm

    I took a classmate in college to the Bowl to see Elton and driving her home, she pointed out a house and said that’s Patty Duke’s house and that she used to babysit her kids. RIP.

  100. 100.

    Elie

    March 29, 2016 at 4:50 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Si — …

  101. 101.

    Linda

    March 29, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    @BGinCHI: I wanted to marry Gomez Adams when I grew up.

  102. 102.

    Greenergood

    March 30, 2016 at 12:15 am

    Weird – I woke with an earworm on Monday morning of the Patty Duke Show theme song, for all you people of a certain age, try to fill in the ??? bits: ‘Here’s Patty who loves the the minuet, the Ballet Russe and crepes Suzette but Patty doesn’t know the ?? of Brooklyn Heights ?? other sights. What a wild duet! But they’re cousins, identical cousins and you’ll find – they laugh alike, they talk alike, at times they even look alike, you could lose your mind – identical cousins – just two of a kind’ I’m NOT going to youTube it – just want to find out if anyone can just fill it in and then ask WHY do we have these ridiculous residuals in our memory banks?? PS also remember all the lyrics to Tobor the Space Man, very early 1960s ancestor of Japanese manga – ‘There’s a prehistoric monster, it came from outer space, created by the Martians to destroy the human race. The FBI is helpless, it’s twenty storeys tall, What can we do, Who can we call? Call Tobor the Space Man, Tobor the Space Man, Faster than a rocket, Swifter than a jet, he’s the mighty robot, he’s the one to get.’ If I get a reply to this post I will be amazed :-) Signed, Stressed out at Mom’s just now …

  103. 103.

    Mike G

    March 30, 2016 at 12:16 am

    @PurpleGirl:

    They didn’t dub them into Norwegian but subtitled them in Norwegian (cheaper) and children and adults could hear English on the TV.

    I was in Denmark last year, watching Deliverance on TV with Danish subtitles, wondering what kind of horrible impression of America the locals were getting from this, and hoping no-one was trying to learn English by emulating it.

  104. 104.

    Steeplejack

    March 30, 2016 at 12:46 am

    @Greenergood:

    The Patty Duke Show theme song is in the video clip at the top of this post.

  105. 105.

    gogol's wife

    March 30, 2016 at 7:07 am

    @Steeplejack:

    You’re no fun.

    It took me YEARS to understand the line “a hot dog makes her lose her mind.”

  106. 106.

    Paul in KY

    March 30, 2016 at 7:32 am

    @Origuy: Excellent point there. Would be easier, if person had been in Anglican church.

  107. 107.

    Paul in KY

    March 30, 2016 at 7:34 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: Very interesting on the high ranking person who married a half-Muslim & could not get kid certified as Hindu. Thank you for your response.

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