Tim Robbins knows all about dubious achievements. He won an Oscar by beating Alec Baldwin. https://t.co/jo4vLLyUSk
— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) April 4, 2016
Introducing @BernieSanders, @TimRobbins1 hits Clinton's primary wins: Winning South Carolina is like "winning Guam" https://t.co/igFHlLoIZv
— ABC News Politics (@ABCPolitics) April 4, 2016
Well, that was… counterproductive, would be my judgement. In case the comparison is as opaque for you as it was for me, the Washington Post explains “Tim Robbins’ Very Bad Take”:
… “After the Southern primaries,” he said, “you had called the election” — apparently referring to the media. “And who’s fooling who? Winning South Carolina in the Democratic primary is about as significant as winning Guam. No Democrat is going to win in the general election. Why do these victories have so much significance?”
This is a not-uncommon argument among supporters of Sanders. Yes, Hillary Clinton is winning. But she’s winning largely because she ran up big margins in Southern states. That, the argument goes, bodes poorly for the general, since those Southern states usually vote Republican.
This is a bad argument that borders on insulting.
First of all, South Carolina has a lot more people than Guam. Among the other bits of data one can point out about the 2016 Democratic primary is that Clinton has received far more votes than Sanders — 2.5 million more. Among those is a margin of about 175,000 more votes in the state of South Carolina, a margin that by itself is larger than the population of Guam…
As for the general election: Those of us who were paying attention in 2008 will remember that the same red-state critique was leveled at Barack Obama then. He was only really winning Southern states, Clinton’s supporters noted, which spelled doom for the general election…
This is very tricky territory, of course, and I don’t want to imply that the wish to dismiss Clinton’s Southern victories is motivated by race. But there is often a sense that because Clinton dominated with black voters in the South that somehow makes those votes an anomaly — as though those victories somehow don’t represent the Democratic Party. Voters in South Carolina may not look much like the folks who came out to caucus in Washington, but their votes count. Those victories are significant because they were big wins in big states — neither of which applies to Guam…
The Hill, writing for a more politically-oriented readership, finds a different pull quote:
Sanders supporter Tim Robbins: Clinton supporters are "sheep" https://t.co/bV3iS2oysZ pic.twitter.com/o9HwkyWxX6
— The Hill (@thehill) April 4, 2016
From the article:
… Robbins sought to address Democrats who “feel Bernie in their hearts but are supporting Hillary with their pragmatic brains,” saying that “these are not bad people.”
“We’ve all been fed a steady stream of simplistic propaganda that furthers the establishment’s narrative that Hillary’s the presumptive nominee,” Robbins said during a rally in Green Bay.
“And if we were sheep, if we had gotten in line, there’d be no problem now,” he continued, saying “establishment figures would get elected” and figures like Sanders would be “marginalized.”
“Times have changed,” Robbins said. “We are done with compromising our ideals.”…
There’s video at the link, if you have an hour to spare.
eemom
Hey, Robbins, Sarandon, DeNiro, Penn and other Hollywood, um, “activists”? Howzabout you just do your Hollywood thing, shut the fuck up and stop trying to “help” we the great unwashed? kthxbai
Amir Khalid
No Bernista has ever said anything to challenge Hilary’s strongest points: her knowledge of the issues, her experience with process, her executive, political and diplomatic skills are way ahead of Bernie’s. She may not be as charismatic on the stump, but presidents don’t spend most of their time on the stump. Tim Robbins even concedes her this point.
eemom
Also too, Tim looks like he’s already playing the role of Bernie in the movie version of this reality.
Villago Delenda Est
Are these twits determined, at all costs, to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in November, and allow the Rethuglicans to take back the White House? This is insane. The Rethugs are ripping themselves to pieces,and doofi like Robbins want to replicate this on the Dem side.
This insistence that perfection must prevail over good got us into an utterly illegal and immoral war of aggression in Iraq that would not have happened if Ralph Nader had not made it his mission in life to sabotage Al Gore.
Emma
@Villago Delenda Est: because they wouldn’t be affected by the fallout of a Republican win. They’re rich, they can afford to wait for the revolution.
SectionH
@Villago Delenda Est: @Villago Delenda Est: The WaPo? Of course they are. The Hill? I have an opinion, not willing to say.
ETA: 98% agree with your subsequent comment.
low-tech cyclist
Tim Robbins didn’t have Nuke Laloosh’s million-dollar arm, of course, but he may have his five-cent head.
Show-biz celeb says something stupid. In other news, dog bites man.
Alison Rose
As I said on Twitter, baa baa, motherfucker.
eemom
@Emma:
Well, let’s be fair…..they could, theoretically, be modern day Jesus Christs like commenter Kropadope, willing to endure personal crucifixion for the salvation of the world that is certain to follow upon a republican victory in November.
maryQ
@Villago Delenda Est: yes, this is it. I believe more and more that Sanders is simply trying to disrupt all that Democrats have gained since the come to Jesus moment in late 2004. His supporters want to throw it all away because we started to win without radically altering the landscape. Clinton and her supporters want to keep pushing, include more people, patch leaks, fill holes, make thing work better, spread the wealth more fairly.
Sanders wants to use rage to break everything down. His supporters want him to extract wealth (not from movie stars though cuz they are good) from bad people and give them free stuff.
They want to break what Howard Dean and Barack Obama built.
SectionH
The real awfulness was watching friends in Balto-Wash – lifelong Democrats, mind you – who started worrying about “issues” which they’d themselves believed in until “considerations” from what we now call VSPs – based on what the WaPo said. And then the Both SIdes shit. It was Horrible. It was the entire Foxaganda campaign compressed into about 5 years. I think shorter because they’d always trusted the WaPo.
ETA: comment vaguely aimed at Villago. (Plus adding end quotation mark)
maryQ
I can’t get black people to vote for me so I will use the super delegates to disenfranchise them.
shortribs
@low-tech cyclist: Tim Robbins made Tapeheads (one of the best breaking the fourth wall shots ever) so I’ll give him a pass, just this one time though.
maryQ
Still waiting on that Elizabeth Warren endorsement. But lacking that, it’s cool that all these dipshit celebrities have his back.
SectionH
@maryQ: I thought it was pretty clear Warren wasn’t going to go there, for the completely sane reason that she has a lot of cred for lotsa ppl on both sides, and would rather do the “Rah Rah, Go Dems!” thing for the General.
Or possibly she’s dealt enough with Bernie in the Senate.
maryQ
@SectionH: initially I thought it was simply rah rah Dems, and that may be all it is. It’s plausible enough. But more and more I suspect she doesn’t want to endorse him because of him and his lousy negative destructive campaign.
BillinGlendaleCA
Tim Robbins and I attended UCLA at the same time*, two things:
1) He either did not take or slept though Professor Freedman’s Poli Sci 1 class.
2) @eemom: Damn he looks about 10 years older than I do.
*UCLA had 20,000 undergrads at the time, I didn’t know Tim.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Shorter TimRobbins/Susan Sarandon: South Carolina voters are Black Sheep
different-church-lady
WHY DO SANDERS SUPPORTERS KEEP ALIENATING ALL THESE CLINTON VOTERS BERNIE’S GONNA NEED IN THE GENERAL?!?
BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady: No worries; they’re sheep, they’ll follow right along.
(I see what you did there☺.)
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@different-church-lady: I think people lose the minds when they’re losing.
In 2008 it was clinton’s supporters on the net like MYDD, FDL, TalkLeft that went full metal racist.
That said Tim Robbins & Susan Sarandon have always been mindless privileged aristocrats (photo)
Cacti
BernieBro holds low opinion of black Democratic voters.
In other news: water still wet
cbear
OT–Shit MAY be about to get realz as some of the right people are starting to question why the “Panama Papers” are not naming any Americans, YET.
Here’s Marcy Wheeler (EmptyWheel) today…
Here’s a primer from Ken Silverstein, who was covering this in 2014.. The Nevada connection is what may be the key to bringing this back to U.S.
Rachel Maddow had a story on this tonight, but she didn’t really get into the real potential impact of what may come if the USA side of this comes out.
I’m predicting (Dog please!) that Romney, Rupert Murdoch, Trump, Koch Brothers, Adelson, et al get caught up in this—as well as some of the people on our side. Let the chips fall where they may.
For anybody not following this story, you should consider doing so.
BGinCHI
Tim Robbins, star of the only shitty movie the Cohen Brothers ever made.
eejit
Aqualad08
Just scroll on down to the comments section on that Philip Bump WaPo piece. My goodness gracious… the kids are NOT all right…
different-church-lady
@Cacti:
Isn’t anyone ever going to dry that stuff off?
opiejeanne
@eemom: I thought he looked like he was playing the part of Glen Beck.
Cacti
Tim often agonizes over the plight of the working class, in between bites of his chateaubriand at the Mandarin Oriental.
different-church-lady
@Aqualad08: So I did…
What can you even say?
? Martin
In 2008, Obama won 20 counties in South Carolina to McCain’s 26. Obama lost by only 9 points. Now, that doesn’t put SC in the purple category or anything of the sort, but Tim might want to pay a bit closer attention to what Democrats could achieve when they don’t shit all over a community. Those 20 counties were potential downticket victories.
different-church-lady
Evisceration.
StellaB
Bernie has spent a lifetime fighting against the Democrats in Vermont and then grudgingly compromising with them in DC. He is not a fan of the Democratic party. Hilz, OTOH, has spent her life (more or less!) as a Democrat. She’s the enemy.
I read the Daily News interview. Sanders is about as prepared for the presidency as Marco Rubio, although more prepared than Trumpolini.
? Martin
Sigh.
The average manufacturing compensation costs in the US is $35/hr (that includes payroll taxes, benefits, etc). That’s 50% higher than Israel. Bernie is saying we shouldn’t trade with Israel. Or Greece. Or New Zealand. Or Korea. New Zealand and South Korea aren’t exactly known for their indentured servitude. Nor is Israel.
By the same token Switzerland shouldn’t be trading with us with their $60/hr manufacturing costs (those watches aren’t easy to make, folks).
I wonder if Alaska should be allowed to trade with Alabama given that manufacturing wages there are nearly 50% higher as well.
Amir Khalid
Is Bernie going to propose trade sanctions against Malaysia?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@? Martin:
He says he has specificity on how to fix trade unlike Trump and then he doesn’t say anything specific.
Even moron Trump is specific when he says he’s going to slap a 35% tax on imports.
Then he says he’s going to renegotiate NAFTA and PNTR, which is fine, but he never says that in his commercials or debates or stump speeches (of course not, the public doesn’t want to pay a 35% tax on tee vees and iphone). And if did renegotiate, he would need 60 votes in the senate, which of course he never says how he’s going to get McConnell and Ryan to give him all those votes.
Peej01
And Bernie won Utah, Kansas, Idaho, and Alaska…none of which will be voting for a Democrat in November.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Then they ask him specifically “is Apple destroying the fabric of America?” for manufacturing products overseas that they later import to the U.S. under trade agreements and he says no.
So which is it, are trade agreements terrible or is it okay when Apple uses those same agreements.
Of course the answer is he doesn’t want to criticize Apple because millennials love Apple and they would freak out.
Aqualad08
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: “Of course the answer is he doesn’t want to criticize Apple because millennials love Apple and they would freak out.”
Damn it, if I have to pay $7 for my Big Mac because of the $15 minimum wage, the least those kids can do is have their parents pay $3,000 for their narcissistic imaging devices… :)
BillinGlendaleCA
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Of course he does, REVOLUTION(#9, #9, #9)!!!
magurakurin
The NYDN interview is pure babbling. Embarrassing. Bernie is totally unfit for the office. He hasn’t researched the details of his own proposals. We have dodged a bullet here. Now, we need to dodge the Trump bullet. I have faith in Hillary Clinton. If Bernie decides to help, all is bygones. If not, then it is what is. We still have beat Trump. And we will.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Peej01: Sure, they’re different, eh somehow.
BillinGlendaleCA
@magurakurin: Agreed, his answer to the question about breaking up the big banks was incredibly shallow. Isn’t that his main platform?
Sam Dobermann
You know how you can tell that the TPP is pretty good? The Repubs who had ben pushing for it and got fast track through are very quiet now. They don’t like it at all. It renegotiates the worst parts of NAFTA away since the TPP countries include Canada and Mexico. It has protections for labor organizers and the environment, shortens the protected period for biologics and iirc excludes tobacco from any protection of products in it.
Apple does tear at the fabric of America by using every trick in the book to avoid paying any taxes (as did Steve Jobs; the $1 a year man paid only about 7¢ into Social Security funds) yet they use what America produces including people.
amk
we won’t vote for her.
we don’t need her supporters.
yup, that’s the ticket, berniebots.
Gvg
Bernie is losing because fewer people are voting for him. His feelings are hurt. His supporters feelings are hurt. It’s perfectly natural and human. People get mad at people who don’t agree with them. This is democracy. I have been pretty upset at my fellow citizens before.
What I think is a problem is that more hurtful stuff is being said because of trying to avoid facing that uncomfortable fact. It doesn’t have to be racism, it can just be “silly wrong people who don’t agree with me”. Hillary lost the race 8 years ago, she knows this. I don’t know if Bernie does. It’s been a long time since he lost. Supporters, probably have not really thought it through. Someone has to lose. Other people think differently than you.
Baud
I actually have a chance to win this thing because of all the fighting.
:-)
Keith G
Oh come on, stow the fainting couches. These “attacks’ don’t even qualify as beanbag – more like bath sponges (non-wet) tossed underhand. This is what an under powered and sputtering campaign looks and sounds like.
A barrage of intense and well focused, policy driven counter attacks would be a smart move by Hillary. There is a lot of gossamer holding the Sanders “program” together. It’s past the time to torch that house of cards.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
HOLLYWOOD — (Variety) Baud! to star as JP Finch in remake of “How to Succeed in
BusinessPolitics Without Really Trying”BillinGlendaleCA
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Baud! has star power? Who knew.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I am big. It’s the politics that got small.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I thought it was the hands.
Keith G
@amk:
I do wish folks would stop caring about this.
Things like this get said a whole lot more than they get acted upon. Stupid words born of the anger and frustration of being on the losing end of a political battle is quite common. I bet very many of the minority who might may feel that way (as the pretend quote above) will think better of it later on and vote for the nominee.
Now, the question of why some Hillary supporters are also saying stupid things is another matter.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
Just skimmed the transcript of Trumpster Fire’s interview with Woodward. Two takes:
1. Jesus Christ, that man is shit-all stupid and has zero understanding of the actual power the office holds. He thinks he can snap his fingers and things will just happen, because he’s the boss of us all. In the glob of privilege, entitlement and narcissism this stupid person calls a brain, running a government is the exact same thing as running a business. I said a couple of days ago that if he hadn’t been born rich, he’d be a collection manager at a payday lender or a “buy here pay here” car salesman. I take that back – he’s too dumb for those jobs. He’s more of a pawnshop helper type.
2. Woodward is a moron who is incapable (probably by design) of drawing an interview subject in and asking genuinely probing followups.
Baud
@Keith G:
Not really. Same rules apply. Democrats are nothing if not fair.
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
The promoters of the TPP actually promise trade sanctions on Malaysia if they don’t crack down on forced labor and trafficking:
The vow to enforce with sanctions is and was central to the Administration’s argument on TPP. Critics are worried there will be no real enforcement because there never is. Instead there are endless rounds of negotiations and tribunals and stern warnings and nothing happens. Obviously trade sanctions are a very hostile act, country to country, so while it’s easy to promise sanctions to the public, reality is much more complicated because it becomes a matter of foreign policy. It isn’t extreme to promise to enforce trade sanctions. That’s the “field-leveling” we’re always being promised when they sell these deals domestically.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Whaaat?
That’s a phrase I haven’t heard since I ran far far away from my Southern Baptist upbringing.
Sorry, not gonna take anyone seriously who is using that kind of religious imagery about their politician of choice.
Still love Bob Roberts, though.
Baud
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
It’s telling that the most pressing interview this election cycle has been by Chris Matthews.
Anne Laurie
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Troutmouth Bob has never done anything in his far-too-long career to disprove the people who think he’s remained a three-letter-agency mole since his OSS days. Ever since Watergate — which was mostly about cutting that drunk Nixon loose before he took down the entire Republican party — Woodward’s dedicated himself to reassuring “the people who matter” that all is for the best in this best of all possible Beltway worlds, pay no attention to the little men behind the curtain. And with every passing administration, Woodward’s Very Serious Certainties become less and less believable/interesting, unless you’re the sort of person who needs to spend money on print-filled doorstops laden with conventional wisdom. The fact that Bezos, or Fred Hiatt, felt it worth sending Woodward out to tape Trump’s Improv-of-the-Week performance shows just how little the people who pay him think of both men.
Kay
Also, just wanted to remind everyone that Secretary Clinton also (now) opposes the TPP.
I’m not clear why Bernie Sanders is such a far Left outlier on this since the majority of Democrats in Congress opposed Fast Track and Clinton says she opposes the actual text of the deal.
I myself believe we will get it no matter who wins, mostly because Fast Track was designed to pass trade deals no matter what’s in them, but if we’re talking about the “position of the Democratic Party” any roll call vote in Congress or survey of the D Presidential candidates would come out “opposed”. Publicly. Public position.
This consistency may become important because you will see Democrats in Senate races running against Republicans who supported the deal. There are already ads up in Ohio.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Woodward would be writing obituaries on a suburban Maryland paper if the the chief operating officer of the FBI didn’t hate Nixon and take a likening to him. Also too: if moronic, lazy vets of the Bay of Pigs didn’t put tape on a locked stairwell outside of Democratic Party headquarters.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Anne Laurie: ONI
Kay
In fact,the entire argument free traders use when selling these deals domestically is that the US has been put at a disadvantage by prior trade deals the same free traders pushed:
If your argument is the US is at a disadvantage because of the inexorable operation of “markets” you’re undercutting the administration’s argument, not advancing it. The whole reason we’re supposed to support the US “leading” on trade is to “level the playing field”. Other countries protected domestic markets while the US did not, which obviously is the opposite of a “level playing field”, hence the skepticism.
In another couple of decades, 100 years from now at the latest we’ll reach free trade nirvana, and all these promises will come true.
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
Great. That’s just what we needed here. Do these people realise what rush-hour traffic is like in Kuala Lumpur?
Guam huy
Long- time lurker, but that idiot Robbins’ deprecation of our beautiful island really just shows his foolishness.FWIW, although our vote doesn’t count, Guam has picked the winner in every presidential election since we started having “beauty contests” in November 1988
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
That part of the TPP negotiations were tricky, because the US State Department was designating certain TPP countries as “tier three” (the worst) forced labor countries in the midst of the political campaign to sell the deal. The State Department (John Kerry, not Clinton) backed off, and the accusation was they backed off because the designation undercut the TPP.
Labor protections often go under the ‘ol foreign relations bus when we’re seeking consistency between campaign rhetoric to sell trade deals and reality. To ideological free traders, labor protections are a “trade barrier”. People get in the way of the brilliant theory.
Aimai
@Villago Delenda Est: its the revolution of rising expectations. We see an unlocked candy store and think:now is a good time to put in a good manager who will conserve our shsred cany resources. They see a last chance for a smash and grab. The very fact that the republican side is weak makes them frantic becsuse they know its bernies only chsnce. Neither he nor his followers can afford to wait.
LAO
I have a a stupid Tim Robbins story. So a hundred years or so, when I was back in law school, I was on line at an ATM machine in the west village. I turned around and Tim Robbins was on line behind me. After silently debating with myself whether to acknowledge his presence, I turned around and told him how much I loved Bob Roberts. He nodded his head and then asked me whether I knew it was a satire. My eyes widen and I stared at him for a long moment and said, “yes, I’m not an idiot.”
I spent the rest of the awkward wait thinking he is an idiot.
Kay
Sending celebrities out to campaign for him is insane. I don’t know why they keep doing it, other than they know they are going to lose and it creates buzz.
The whole “celebrity endorsement” thing should be re-examined. They really haven’t earned this huge platform for their political rambling.
hamletta
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Haha! You’re funny! There are no more suburban Maryland papers!
Rob
@Amir Khalid: We’ve brought them up consistently. You just don’t listen.
Rob
@Amir Khalid: Hillary has skill, acumen and intelligence. And she uses it all for the continual empowerment of the oligarchy.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@LAO: He moved out of an apartment after single day living there cuz he thought it was haunted by ghosts. No really. Link It was probably just cockroaches.
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
It can work of you have gravitas like the Boss. Bruce Springsteen endorsed Kerry in 2004, then he endorsed Obama twice and campaigned with him. But Bruce was careful not to say anything bad about Hillary in 2008 (he endorsed Obama that April, before the primary was settled). In 2012 Obama was essentially unopposed in the primary, and Bruce endorsed him after that.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Rob: Sherrod Brown, Howard Dean, Barbara Lee, Paul Krugman, and Bill de Blasio are part of the oligarchy?
msdc
@Aqualad08:
If it’s any consolation, most of those “kids” are probably about as young and sprightly as Nuke LaLoosh up there.
As Al Giordano says, the nastiest BernieBros are mostly greybeards who have never won a race in their lives. They wouldn’t want to: too much responsibility.
Amir Khalid
@Rob:
Again with that tired talking point. The thing is, Bernie will need that kind of acumen, skill and intelligence to be an effective President, and so far he has not demonstrated it.
Troublesome Carp fka Geeno
@LAO: I think he probably was approached a lot by people who didn’t.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Real Oligarchs Support Trump.
Real Oligarchs Support Trump.
Real Oligarchs Support Trump.
Etc., etc., etc.
Hillary needs to up her game to get the crucial Putin, Adelson, Koch, Icahn, etc., vote. Time is running out!!1
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
LAO
@Troublesome Carp fka Geeno: I don’t know. It seems impossible to me to love that movie if you don’t get that it’s satire. But I learned my lesson no more acknowledging celebrities for this New Yorker. (Noted exceptions: Steve Buscemi right after Reservoir Dogs and Itzak Perlman, we lived in the same building).
gvg
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: If you have enough big cockroaches to make you think of ghosts, it’s time to move IMO.
Sondra
@Villago Delenda Est:
We liked these folks well enough when they came out strong for Obama, so let us not denigrate them now because they have chosen Bernie as the guy who best satisfies their ideal of a candidate.
I do take offense when they get down in the mud and act like the Republicans because it is harmful to our side and our efforts to win the general election.
Paul in KY
@eemom: Don’t think he hasn’t thought about that.
Paul in KY
@maryQ: I think Sen. Sanders feels (rightly or wrongly) that whomever wins the Democratic nomination will win in Nov. Thus, this is his best & only chance to be President.
I’m not sure that any particular Democrat will/would win in Nov. That depends somewhat on what scum the Repubs nominate & other factors.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Do Da Dippidy!
Barbara
@different-church-lady: WaPo and Politico comments, more than any others I have ever read, are full of professional political types. They will say things like, “As a lifelong Democrat I could never vote for Clinton,” in an effort to influence the outcome. Trolls, through and through, whenever the subject is political. I usually skip.
Amaranthine RBG
Another day, another Whitney ass post abo8t so,etching some Sanders supporter said.
#tiresome #thathorsedonedead # nothelpingpartyunityatall
Nicole
Tim, I get that you wanted to do this “I like Bernie too!” thing, but Susan’s not taking you back. Let it go, man. Move on.
Matt McIrvin
I’m thinking we should go easy on the Bernie supporters until we know Hillary Clinton isn’t implicated in the Panama Papers. Should be soon.
Tractarian
@Amaranthine RBG:
I can haz english?
Matt McIrvin
@LAO: Jim Webb bears a freakish resemblance to a younger Tim Robbins playing Bob Roberts (even though in real life, Webb is considerably older than Robbins). The two of them could run on a ticket in which Robbins carefully explains to everyone that his running mate is satirically intended.
FlipYrWhig
Bernie Sanders and his supporters comprise an abrasive, condescending, ignorant, blustering pack of tools? You don’t say.
Uncle Cosmo
@Aimai:
@msdc:
Bangalore! I call them the Bolshevik Adolescents of the Boom Years (BABY). Who reached physical (if not mental or emotional) adulthood thinking all they had to do was march in the streets & shout slogans & The Revolution(TM) would magically come to pass. And after 45 years of progressive ;^) embitterment, they see Bernie as their last chance to get that Pink DemSoc Unicorn they were so cruelly cheated out of by cold reality in their tie-dyed-&-bell-bottomed seizure-salad days while they’re still (mostly) free of the degenerative brain conditions that would leave them unaware of what planet they inhabit.
The young’uns are in a hurry because, well, young’uns–time runs differently for them, & it’s the world they’ll live most of their lives in that’s at stake. I don’t blame them a damn bit; I remember being young when there was a nasty war to stop. It’s the Berniebeards–the BABYs who fucking well ought to have learned better in 1968 & 1970 & 1972–who piss me off royally.
@Paul in KY:
I’ve posted this before but it’s gotten buried in back threads–
Bernie coulda been the Democratic-Socialist Moses, leading his people out of capitalist bondage. Of course there’s some downside: The Promised Land is squatted by (corporate & plutocrat) giants, his Chosen People are condemned to wander many years in the wilderness before they take possession, & the Big M himself only gets to glimpse the destination before passing to the next plane. But damn, it’s the starring role of a lifetime.
Unfortunately the true believers (kids & the BABY greybeards) want him to hold out for Pharaoh, & the garden-variety campaign functionaries (i.e., grifters) who want to keep sucking on the $$$-teat as long as possible have been whispering in his ear that he can do it. But if he keeps pushing that the most that could get him & his followers is drowned when the Redstate Sea comes crashing back in between the Convention & Election Day. The kids will drift away in disgust & the seniors will drown in their own broken synapses, & “democratic socialism” will be discredited for another generation, just when we need it to be viable. He needs to craft a movement with staying power, because it’s going to be a long haul–& the former carpenter can’t even figure out how to nail together a bench.
Shell
@BGinCHI: Ha, I think Im the only one who ever liked ‘The Hudsucker Proxy.’
Blame him for being in ‘Howard The Duck.’
Chyron HR
@Tractarian:
They think Whitney Houston had a great ass. Pretty self-explanatory.
FlipYrWhig
@Uncle Cosmo:
EXACTLY. Well said. My only addition? The people my age (mid-40s) are perhaps even worse because they’re so gung-ho on social media. And IMHO they wrap themselves in the mantle of Bernie Sanders, Youth Candidate so that they can feel young and hip again themselves.
AnotherBruce
@Baud: I now understand your clever strategy of sitting on the sidelines, biding your time. And to think, I thought it was because you’re too lazy to campaign.
aimai
My 17 year old (11th grader) says that everyone in her class is a Bernie fanatic. I explained to her that this makes a lot of sense to me. Its OK. Kids have zero experience or historical reference points. In every election there is someone who purports to “come from outside” and who “speaks clearly” and “is authentic” and simplifies complex issues so that the novice follower can feel like they are understanding everything. That person is inherenlty attractive to new people who want to see soething done! They want to fix everything! They want to take part in a social event! Those are all natural aspects of politics. But once you’ve been around for a while, and know the players, its hard to believe that th new broom is particularly better than some other old broom. And you know just how hard the task of fixing thigs is. Or maybe you prioritize things differently. Its normal and right for younger people to be believers in big things during their first elections. The Obama generation were lucky that their belief in their candidate was matched by the excellence of their candidate. That’s just not true for Bernie.
Matt McIrvin
@aimai: My 9-year-old (4th grader) says most of the kids she knows who have expressed a preference are Trump fanatics. He seems to have a visceral appeal to rowdy young boys, though of course they’re probably getting it from their parents as well. I doubt the neighborhood is majority-Trump, though his supporters are by far the most vocal about it.
tastytone
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
“Vote with your heart” seems to be a recurring theme in my circle of Sanders-supporting friends. At least Mr. Robbins has graciously suggested that those of us who value critical thinking over the feelz “are not bad people”.
Ella in New Mexico
It really is advisable that while trying to twist one’s argument around in order to use it to batter the person you don’t prefer in the Democratic Primary, you not turn into a Republican troll.
@Sam Dobermann:
No. I can’t, and neither can anyone who actually looked at all it’s poison pills. Because it’s another bad, shitty, underhanded gift to people who don’t deserve it at the expense of not only American jobs but of the quality of life in other countries. The whole party knows it. Just because Sanders is against it doesn’t mean it’s good.
@Kay:
@Kay:
Exactly. Thank you, Ms. Kay, for the sanity. :-)
maryQ
@tastytone: I’m voting with my heart. My heart tells me that it is happier when we have a President who knows how the government works.
Tom Q
@Uncle Cosmo: I’ve thought from early on in this primary season that I can’t begrudge the young supporters, because I once WAS them — voted for McGovern in both the primary and general election in ’72; was enough of a political naif to believe right up till 6PM Election Night that McGovern would beat Nixon because it was the Right Thing for the Universe. When you’re that age, you’ve just discovered that life is more boring/bland/phony than you wanted to believe, and the idea of a revolution — led by a Truth Teller — is catnip to your young appetites.
But continuing to believe it through middle-age and beyond is inexcusable. When Sarandon said “Some people think if Trump is elected, the revolution will come right away”, the only way she could have absolved herself of rank idiocy was to have followed it immediately with “…these people are, of course, morons”. To get to nearly 70 and still have such young-folk fantasies about politics — especially after being on the wrong side of Nader/not Nader in 2000 — suggests a level of thickness that disqualifies your opinion from ever being taken seriously.
Matt McIrvin
@FlipYrWhig:
I can sympathize with them to some degree, for a very specific reason: I still feel burned and guilty about what major-party politics did during the few years after 9/11. That radicalized me to some degree and made me way, way more sympathetic to radical burn-it-all-down attitudes than I ever would have been when I was actually a kid. In those few years the hippies and anarcho-syndicalists were right and the mainstream Democrats were mostly wrong; they went right along with Bush.
And I had been wrong and kept trying not to be wrong again. So when somebody tells me that I’m being a lazy sheep by supporting the mainstream Democrat who will be as big a warmonger as a Republican, that accusation actually has some bite to it. It’s something that needs to be looked into, at least, on its face.
I suppose a lot of older voters probably have similar feelings about Vietnam.
dollared
@Aqualad08: You do realize that that is complete bullshit, don’t you? But you obviously oppose the fight for $15 as well, based on your false assumptions.
Labor is 10% of a Big Mac. It is less than 10% of an iPhone.
Try being a fucking Democrat.
dollared
@Ella in New Mexico: Agreed. This is basically a Republican thread on policy.
But…..while Hillary has criticized the TPP, she has not said that she will not sign it. So she will.
(and I would be so thrilled to be proved wrong…..)
Percysowner
The Berniebots are going overboard Sanders supporter publishes “hit list” of superdelegates, includes woman’s home address. Chuck Todd has a suggestion Chuck Todd: Bernie can get superdelegate votes by threatening them with primary challenges.
Personally I don’t see either of these working. If someone calls my cell phone or drives by my house to pressure me into voting for anyone, I’d just dig in my heels and say NO. As to Chuck Todd’s idea, Bernie isn’t a Democrat. If he wants to shape the party, maybe he should join it? I have no problem with running candidates that will push the party more to the left, but, again, I think this will simply make a superdelegate want to not vote for him.
I know this isn’t Bernie himself, but he needs to rein in his people.
goblue72
@Amir Khalid: Well the foreigner has spoken, guess we should all just pack up and go home then.
@Baud:
Bwahahaahahahahahhahahahahahahaha!!!!
Ella in New Mexico
@Kay: Agreed.
With the exception of the “Yes We Can” will.i.am video for Obama. THAT thing was genius. And, if I recollect, no one seemed to think the kids were stupid THEN for feeling inspired, did they?
Ahh, the good ole’ days. :-)
goblue72
@dollared: She will sign that thing just to punch some hippies. Just watch.
She wins this, she’s still gonna lose in 4. (Absent a Return of Trump in 2020.) Dems getting lucky that the next recession hasn’t started this year. A slowdown isn’t on the horizon – and even if we get the beginnings of one over the summer (highly unlikely at this point), it will be too far into the election season to do much.
But its absolutely guaranteed that we will hit a recession before 2020. If Clinton gets very lucky, it happens around January 2017. More likely 2018. Gonna be another rout at the midterm polls. And a jobless recovery heading into 2020, like every recession since the early 1990s. Will be a great situation to run on with a resume of signing TPP, not going after Wall Street, doing nothing visible to try to move the needle on income inequality and dollars to donuts being involved in some random Middle East bullshit.
We got an angry old old dude from Almost Quebec running and a tired retreat from the 1990s as our nominee choices. And no plan to take back Congress or the states. This would be a rout if the RNC had an ability to manage the nuthouse.
Because this guy is a hard right conservative – http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_kasich_vs_clinton-5162.html
Him – or a candidate like him – would be what the GOP would be offering up if it had any control over its own organization.
Miss Bianca
@goblue72:
Christ, what an asshole you are. Too much to hope for you’ll take your own damned advice, I suppose.
Ella in New Mexico
@Percysowner:
May I suggest that a one-person, questionably sane, internet rogue campaign does not “his people” make. If he’s got the time to even be made aware of every single dumb-ass on the internet, he might hear about this, and if so, of course denounce it.
Plenty of people out there claim to represent Hilary in atrocious ways when it’s clear she has absolutely no connection or control over their behavior. I won’t hold her accountable for that.
Betty Cracker
@goblue72: Wow.
Aqualad08
@dollared:
Oh, totally… I’m sorry sarcasm doesn’t always translate well in written form. :)
aimai
@Ella in New Mexico: No one thinks the kids are stupid NOW. The point of my comment was that people can get inspired, and should get inspired, when voting for a political candidate. But only someone new to the process believes that their candidate and only their candidate can cure the country’s ills. The stupid glorification of Obama was typical, not atypical. Luckily for the country (though the same people who glorified him attacked him minutes after he was sworn in and continued attacking him to this day for insufficient perfection) Obama could live up to the hype. I dont happen to think Bernie can but I am totally unsurprised and quite sympathetic that high schoolers are awed by him.
eemom
@Miss Bianca:
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, it’s kind of funny how the longer Mr. 100% Genuine Lefty flaps his mighty cybergums, the more, um, paradoxical his schtick appears. Last week we saw how he talks about women; now, he outs himself as a petty little xenophobe. Quelle surprise pt. 2.
dollared
@Aqualad08: Ah, phew. Withdrawn…..
dollared
@Amir Khalid: The problem is that her skills are used in service of the wrong policy goals. That’s a pretty big problem.
Gravenstone
@dollared: Is your snark meter in the shop? Or maybe your’re just knee jerk stupid that way?
Gravenstone
deleted, fuck it all
wobbly
I’m not replying, I’m just tired.
I’m white, female, working class, 65 years old, and tired of the way Hillary Clinton has been trashed over the years by people who should know better.
Believe it or not, I had actually heard of Bernie Sanders before he decided to register as Democrat-when was that December 2015?- a completely opportunistic move, by the way.
From what I heard, he was kind of cool-an independent socialist senator from Vermont. In his long career in Congress, he could have challenged the unfair rules that give Vermont as many senators as my state, New York. He could have called for a “political revolution’ to abolish the Electoral College-or simply introduced some legislation, especially after the disaster of Bush versus Gore.
Did he?
Of course not. His current job (not exactly factory work) depends on the continued existence of the undemocratic allocation of senators.
His next job depends on his constant trashing of a well qualified woman who’d be a way better president than he would be.
He’s not cool anymore. All the mud he throws at Hillary-“Wall Street! Wall Street! Donations! Donations!” come up bupkiss when she actually asks him to name ONE vote she actually cast to please her donors over the interests of people like me,
Bupkiss, from Sanders.
Michael Brown
@maryQ: Yeah…that makes total sense…the Clinton supporters are the ones whom are really interested in making shit better for everyone by supporting a demonstrably corrupt candidate….as opposed to Bernie supporters whom are pushing for the the guy whom has been walking the talk w/r to progressivism for the past 40 years….
You cannot be this fucking stupid….can you ?
Michael Brown
@wobbly: …..you likely are not nearly as tired as I am of people such as yourself accusing Bernie supporters for “drinking the kool-aid” (otherwise knowing exactly whom the fuck and what the fuck their candidate stands for) while placing your support behind a demonstrably corrupt candidate….cause “they are sooooo mean to her”!!!.
I wonder if how tired all those kids whom lives where fucking ruined by Hillary’s support for the private prison industry…you know…the one she fucking profited from via direct investments…..or all those black/brown kids whom were fucking disapeared off the streets of Chicago….via Rham’s police department….Hey…she still backing/defending that asshole ?
eemom
@Michael Brown:
Why don’t you “walk the talk” and find out for us, Berntard? And while you’re at it, got any links for your other accusations?
Karen
Idealism vs. pragmatism. I know that a lot of the super left hate Obama because he’s not a pink unicorn farting cotton candy. It’s that same reason that they hate Clinton. Clinton is a pragmatist like Obama is a pragmatist. The fact that there is a GOP congress and they’ll stomp on anything is lost on them. Sanders is only a new Democrat and an opportunistic one. He could have joined the Dems at any time but only did it so he could run for Pres. Berniebros are the tea party of the left. Like the tea party compromise is an anathema to them.
I also suspect that there are hundreds of new Democrats who are only voting Dem because of Bernie and if Bernie doesn’t win, they’ll scorch the earth and vote for Trump.
Linnaeus
@Karen:
I doubt that there’s all that many. We heard similar things in 2008, but it didn’t come to pass.
Disgruntled former Baud supporter
@Linnaeus: Maybe “hundreds” was meant literally. As in “not enough to make a significant difference in Nov.”