Here is today’s Clinton “scandal” news:
Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch, conceding that her airport meeting with former President Bill Clinton this week had cast a shadow over a federal investigation of Hillary Clinton’s personal email account, said Friday that she would accept whatever recommendations that career prosecutors and the F.B.I. director make about whether to bring charges in the case.
“I will accept their recommendations,” Ms. Lynch said in an appearance at the Aspen Ideas Festival. She said that “the case will be resolved by the same team that has been working on it from the beginning.”
The attorney general said she had decided several months ago to defer to the recommendations of her staff and of the director of the F.B.I. because her status as a political appointee sitting in judgment on a politically charged case would raise questions of a conflict of interest.
The meeting with Mr. Clinton, she acknowledged, only deepened those questions, and she said she felt compelled to publicly explain her reasoning to try to put concerns to rest.
Here’s how I’m betting this will play out. The FBI is not going to recommend any charges for several reasons. First, I don’t think she did anything criminal. Second, the FBI is not going to charge a major political candidate in the middle of an election cycle, because to do so would forever taint the FBI as a partisan organization, and no Democrat would ever have any faith in them to be independent whatsoever. Also, their budget comes from elected office, and they aren’t going to stretch the rules or bend over backwards to find some bullshit reason to charge her. They just aren’t.
If the FBI does anything, it will issue some long report with a bunch of mealy mouthed bullshit, the investigative version of “mistakes were made,” and say that while she did not do anything illegal or criminal she did something improper. This will then give them defense against the right, who also fund their budget and do not want to be left with nothing. They will then recommend a bunch of changes to policy regarding this to all levels of government in regards to email protocols and security.
The Republicans, having just demanded that Loretta Lynch recuse herself for… reasons, will then have no way to demand that she do something additional to HRC, because, as we know, she has recused herself and has nothing to do with the process. And thus, E-Mail Benghazi: Electric Boogaloo, will come to an end with some short term yelling and fauxtrage on Fox, some hysterics among the Infowars sect, and some smug tweets coming from secure pockets of true progressive Bernistan. I’ll note for posterity that these are increasingly overlapped areas in a Venn diagram. Who knows, maybe Dan Burton will videotape himself shooting a server in his backyard.
A very cynical person might even think that Bill Clinton intentionally publicly met with AG Lynch in a private airplane. Someone has spent some time perfecting their Kung Fu under our swarthy Jedi overlord.
Warren Terra
Dammit, Cole, Doug J had a simple request for you:
germy
Best comment is in thread below:
muddy
As a cynical person, I think Bill Clinton subconsciously doesn’t want Hillary to outstrip him. He does and says things that are pointlessly aggravating. He’s like someone who says they want to move on to a new relationship, but on every date they talk the whole time about their ex and thus shoot themselves in the foot.
FlipYrWhig
@muddy: “Hi, Loretta, been a while, I have new grandkids” doesn’t sound particularly “pointlessly aggravating” to me.
azlib
Most voters are giving a big “meh” to this faux outrage.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
“fauxtrage” wins Teh Internetzes for today!
Tom
A pity the case couldn’t go before Antonin “I spend quality time in a duck blind with people who have cases before me” Scalia to be outraged over.
Amir Khalid
The Young Turks seem to be going on about a Hillary super PAC taking illegal contributions from federal contractors. Never mind this nothingburger, what is that about?
Mary Jo
I love that photo of Hillary. It captures almost the exact moment I knew I could enthusiastically support her campaign.
burnspbesq
@Amir Khalid:
It’s most likely about TYT making stuff up.
germy
@Amir Khalid:
And somewhere Karl Rove is laughing…
rikyrah
LOL at Benghazi Electric Bougaloo???
But….the AG should have kept it moving.
Unforced error by the Clintons.
MattF
Well, we’re back to Clinton Obessive Disorder, in case anyone believed that we were ever really away. Presumed GUILTY. Crack pipes and dildoes hanging from the Christmas tree. Alex Jones is wearing a blue dress. And, so help me, Noot is coming back.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
Probably the same thing all the stories are about. Absolutely Nothing.
And isn’t a super PAC supposed to be separate from the candidate? If they are and did accept illegal contributions, how is that a real issue for Clinton? And if illegal contributions were made did the super PAC give them back? Which would make this a non issue in any case but would never make it into the story or into any story for that matter.
Felonius Monk
OTOH, Bernie is still being a stubborn ass:
(via TPM)
Mnemosyne
@muddy:
I think every married person in the entire universe has had to say at least once, Honey, stop helping.
But that doesn’t change the essential nothingburgerness of this whole story. He met with AG Lynch and her husband. FFS, people, the Attorney General of the United States is not going to be discussing an active case with an interested party to that case in front of her goddamned husband!
Trentrunner
LOL I believe this is a nothingburger, too, but the day the Bill Clinton is an expert 11-dimensional chess player with HILLARY’s political prospects is the day I eat my hat.
Bill has some serious issues around Hillary’s political success, and you’d think he’d have worked them out by now.
muddy
@FlipYrWhig: Okay, you were not present, you don’t know what was said.
That said, Bill Clinton should have the sense not to further muddy the waters. Optics is a thing. What’s more important to Bill, that Hillary win or that he get to chat with Loretta Lynch about grandchildren, right before the report comes out? It’s like he just can’t help himself from stirring shit and then acting innocent.
Mnemosyne
@Felonius Monk:
That’s not gonna go well for Bernie. It’s a bad idea to cross Joe, no matter how amiable he appears in public. Even Obama doesn’t like to publicly cross him, and he’s Joe’s boss.
Ruckus
@MattF:
It’s “fun” isn’t it?
Schlemazel Khan
My local NPR station had a very long piece on around 10:30 today. They sent a reporter around Ohio to talk to voters. Everyone was outraged! Everyone was pissed off!! Everyone was disgusted at their choices!!! Everyone was going to vote Drumpf for one reason or another!!!! Obama failed so they want to try something completely different!!!!!
I finally turned it off, I may never turn NPR on again. If I listened to them Hillary is in big trouble in Ohio, if I look at the polls she is ahead and gaining.
kindness
I have to say yesterday’s Charles Pierce post on this reminded me of Andrew Sullivan level shrieking. I said as much on his FB page but haven’t gone back to see how I’ve been dragged through the mud, quartered and hung yet.
Haydnseek
@germy: Exactly. It’s always this way. If Hillary has fries with her burger the Krazy Kaukus immediately introduces a bill to have potatoes classified as an illegal drug. They only agree to change it to a non-binding resolution when a few Idaho congresscritters start screaming and banging on their highchairs.
Shell
Of course its another nothing burger, but ohhhh, Bill. *Sigh*.
Now that the wing nuts are losing their Benghazi chew toy, you had to give them something new to freak out about?
Ruckus
FUUUUUUUUCCCCK!!!!!!
People, will you quit trying to help republicans win elections? That is exactly what the republicans want. Exactly. They have a hard time winning on their own because they are toxic morons for elected officials. And they have almost the entire press corp spreading their toxic crap as if it were free cake for everyone. Quit fucking helping them.
Paul in KY
Well, here I am to fuck up another thread!
How about a fun game? Who would you vote for Trump against? I was musing to myself about this the other day.
For example, if the election was between Trump & Sauron, I guess I’d have to go Trump. Being that Sauron is immortal, able to perform great feats of magic & control lesser minds with The Ring would probably be what would tip me over to Trump.
How about Trump vs Edward VIII? Here I have to vote for the lounge lizard, as he had some sense of duty & would probably surround himself with more competent advisors than Trump.
Any US presidents you would vote Trump over? For me, probably none.
James E Powell
Agree on the big picture, but curious why Clintons produce so much food for the trolls. Shouldn’t Bill be doing what First Spouse candidates usually do? That is, pick a soft issue like nutrition or education or something else that he can get all gooey about. And stick with that while the president does the serious work. Only half kidding.
Bill Clinton is going to be the most troublesome First Family member since Billy Carter.
different-church-lady
@Amir Khalid:
It’s about Cenk being a sensationalist idiot, as usual.
Mnemosyne
@muddy:
Stephen Hargrove, Loretta Lynch’s non-lawyer husband, was at the meeting.
Nothing. Burger. Again.
Seriously, people, we’ve gotta stop falling for these ridiculous ginned-up media “controversies.” It doesn’t do any of us any good.
Haydnseek
@Amir Khalid: It’s about TYT being in deep denial about Bernies dirt nap of a “campaign.”
different-church-lady
@Paul in KY: No, you gotta go with Sauron.
If Trump wins, everything is fucked to shit and we have to live through it.
If Sauron wins, it’s the end of mankind, and it’s over quickly.
Keith P.
You left out the appendix – post election, former presidential and vice presidential candidates Donald Trump and Chris Christie both get indicted for their own election-postponed investigations into tax evasion and extortion, and THEN the right-wing (and Alex Jones) go ab-so-lute-ly bonkers.
Amir Khalid
@James E Powell:
I think it’s more like the trolls have learned to make a meal out of nothing, when it comes to the Clintons.
MattF
There are certain obvious facts that are driving this. They all know that Hilz isn’t going to be indicted, so they’re all warming up for the big scream just over that. And they all also know that an indictment is the one thing that could, at least in theory, save the R party– so they’re very pissed. But that’s life.
Haydnseek
@Trentrunner: ……and you know this exactly how? Please tell us. Omit no detail, however seemingly small.
Mary
@Paul in KY: I’d probably vote for Trump over Ted Cruz, but other than that I got nothing.
petesh
Allegedly Trump called Bill to discuss the prospect of running, and Bill said, “Hey, Donald, why not?” Cole’s cynical view might well be accurate. I can certainly see Bill trolling …
MattF
@Paul in KY: Well, I’ve just started Charlie Stross’ new Laundry Files book– so I have to say that I’d prefer Trump to interdimensional thaumaturgic zombie armies. But only just.
My Truth Hurts
“And thus, E-Mail Benghazi: Electric Boogaloo, will come to an end with some short term yelling and fauxtrage on Fox, some hysterics among the Infowars sect, and some smug tweets coming from secure pockets of true progressive Bernistan. I’ll note for posterity that these are increasingly overlapped areas in a Venn diagram”
Just keep insulting Sanders supporters, Clintonistas, it will work out great for your party. It doesn’t seem out of touch at all! What young person isn’t attracted to being insulted? Who doesn’t like to see the winning side constantly rub it in the losing sides faces? Great strategery.
gvg
People don’t read the classics any more like the boy who cried wolf. I am bored by this. It was not an unforced error nor an error at all. It was a nothingburger that for random reasons somebody decided to make a fuss about. there are probably thousands of other little meetings they could make a fuss about because gasp, Bill knows a lot of people in government, but they didn’t make a fuss about those…because a random hysteric didn’t notice those. They could have made a fuss though. they can make a fuss about anything.
Stop allowing yourselves to be manipulated.
There will be thousands more of these air scandals. It worked in the 90’s and the conservatives never change anything. But people liked and reelected Bill anyway, and you know what? I think Hillary will be OK too. also don’t blame the victims, really.
eclare
Someone in the thread downstairs (Corner Stone?) mentioned that Loretta Lynch was appointed as US Attorney for the Eastern District of New York by Bill in 1999. So they do have a history of at least being friendly toward each other.
Apologies if it was someone else.
Mnemosyne
@different-church-lady:
“Vote Cthulhu — Why Settle For the Lesser of Two Evils?”
muddy
@Mnemosyne: I don’t think it was a big conspiracy FFS. I am saying that he had not need to go over there at all and provide fodder for dolts. He needs to keep his Big Dog snout out of it.
Would it not be easier for Bill to not thrust himself in something than to expect the media and the dingdongs to not get wound about it after?
I like Hillary, Bill often works my last nerve. I think he can’t stand not to have it be about him.
Amir Khalid
@Felonius Monk:
I wnder of Bernie was asked toe obvious follow-up question: “Work with her campaign, how?”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Like the IRS “scandal” , this is outrage in search of a victim, much less a crime. Take the word “optics” out of media discussions and no one would have anything left to say. Might make a fun Madlibs page, though.
Paul in KY
@different-church-lady: Hadn’t thought of that angle. Guess I’m just an optimist ;-)
muddy
@Shell: +1
Haydnseek
@srv: The Daily Caller? Really? Man, you are fucking desperate today.
debit
@different-church-lady: I hear Sauron makes lovely jewelry. I would go with him in hopes I’d get a trinket of some kind.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@My Truth Hurts:
Go talk to the Bern Forever douchenozzles, a small minority, who would rather kick over the chess board than lose a fair contest.
Haydnseek
@Mnemosyne: Check out the Cthulhu for president 2016 site. “Cthulhu 2016. No Lives Matter.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Permission received, you leaky piss-nozzle!
Amir Khalid
@My Truth Hurts:
When you admit to being a Bernista and not a Democrat, as you have done here, is it any wonder the Democrats who comment on this blog don’t regard you as one of them?
Trollhattan
@My Truth Hurts:
And which banned troll are you? My decoder ring is in the nightstand along with the balloons.
msdc
@My Truth Hurts:
Better question: how many young people (as opposed to bitter 40- and 50-something Progressive Betters) are still unable to decide between Clinton and Trump?
The sane Sanders supporters are either already on board or will be soon. The rump was never going to sully the perfect purity of their vote by casting it for a Democrat anyway. The dead-enders don’t matter. Your whining doesn’t matter. And quit trying to hide behind the kids.
Schlemazel Khan
@gvg:
I’d have your babies! that was perfect.
Mnemosyne
@muddy:
They’ve known each other for almost 20 years. As other people have pointed out, if they had avoided each other, then that would have been held up as proof positive that Hillary was on the verge of being prosecuted.
Frankly, I think the reason this nothingburger blew up at all is that Bill has actually been behaving himself the last few months, and the media is desperate to find something, anything to feed their slavering crowds of right-wingers. Maybe he should be less well-behaved so minor crap like this doesn’t get ridiculous amounts of attention.
Southern Goth
@debit:
Sauron makes the best jewelry. Totally classy. Practically indestructible too.
Matt McIrvin
@Paul in KY: I might vote for Trump against two Trumps.
Chyron HR
@Mnemosyne:
A MARRIED WOMAN AND HER HUSBAND?
WHAT SORT OF SEXUAL DEVIANCE WAS SLICK WILLY UP TO THIS TIME??
STAY TUNED FOR ROUND-THE-CLOCK SPECULATION AND INNUENDO!
debit
@Southern Goth: My neighbors, the Nazguls, have some rings that are just to die for.
Mike J
Hillary’s fundraising numbers are out. $70 million for H4A, DNC, and state parties combined.
O. Felix Culpa
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Agreed that it’s “optics” and a nothingburger. But really, couldn’t Bill be a little more circumspect after all these years? Why provide the vast right wing conspiracy with unnecessary fodder to shriek about? Wonderful that he’s a proud grandpappy, but chat about grandchildren with the Attorney General after the FBI report is done. It just doesn’t look good to folks outside the political bubble (several of whom, all Hillary supporters, have commented to me about it). Le sigh.
Technocrat
@James E Powell:
Part of it is that the trolls look so hard, and part of it – at least for Bill – is that he’s that special breed of born politician, The Gregarious Extrovert. He’s never been one for optics, it’s always been about connecting to people. I think that fucks him somewhat in our current hyper-vigilant media atmosphere.
On the other hand, what is the premise of this supposed indiscretion? That he was going to influence LL? Yeah, Hillary is campaigning with LL’s boss, why would a clandestine meeting be necessary when a simple phone call to Barack would do? If someone thinks it’s axiomatic that the Clintons are rascals, then a whole host of behaviors become “suspect”.
Isn’t Chelsea married to a Wall Street dude? Can you imagine if she had gotten married during this election? Does a mother have to stay away from her daughter’s wedding because it will be rife with investment bankers? I don’t support that crap.
jl
I agree, nothingburger. But the howls from the wingers will continue since, last I read, Lynch will not formally recuse herself.
On the other hand, there is this:
” She suggested that he walked uninvited from his plane to her government plane, both of which were parked on a tarmac at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport. Mr. Clinton first appointed Ms. Lynch as a United States attorney in 1999. ”
Which suggests to me a possible useful role for the first ‘First-Mr.’ in US history: 4 year Arctic policy wonk snowmobile tour, starting with whatever is sitting north of Kamchatka (which is too high profile for Bill), and work his was west. They have above ground sewers up there, a shamefully neglected field of study. If he learns how to behave himself, the tour can be extended to high profile far north metropoli of Canada and the US, such as Yellowknife and Deadhorse.
Schlemazel Khan
@My Brain Hurts:
“your party” as in ‘my party’ instead of our party? Yeah troll boy go back and tell your GOP masters you f’ed up & gave the game away asshole/
Technocrat
@Mnemosyne:
Totally agree. The Trumpster Fire was too much of a one-sided narrative. They had to find something to even the scales.
Gravie
Re the Venn diagram: My Berniac high school friend, not a young person BTW, recently posted one of her many anti-Hillary “bombshells” taken directly from, and with a link to, Infowars. So I have seen the overlap firsthand. I’m sure I’m not the only one.
Trentrunner
@Mike J: If Hillary picks Warren, I will donate the max an individual can on that day.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Mike J:
Speaking of fundraising, or the lack of it, Josh Marshall is all over an apparent illegal coordination between the Trump campaign and what appears to be a Potemkin village of a super PAC. They’re both sending fundraising emails to the same foreign politicians. Who are forbidden to donate. How could that happen except by design?
dogwood
@My Truth Hurts:
“It will work out great for your party”
I love the way people who refer to the Democratic Party as “your” party, think they should control it. You do know that there will be multiple options for president on November’s ballot don’t you? You should be able to find a party less loathsome to your sensibilities than the Democratic Party. Any number of those candidates would be happy to feed your inflated sense of entitlement for a few votes. Or if you and your likeminded cohorts are really serious, you could start your own party and do the hard work that entails.
Paul in KY
@Mary: Definitely Trump over Cruz, for me. Probably would vote him over Rih Satanum too.
jl
@Mnemosyne: I don’t think Bill was behaving himself on that particular day, if he did invite himself onto Lynch’s plane. Bill Clinton has long had attitude problems, and they still flare up. I don’t think, even under his best behavior, he has been able to help Hillary much on the campaign trail.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
No question, I was just reading a Josh Barro column on that same idea, that the Clintons’ casual attitude toward the appearance(s) of conflict of interest (that’s the optics) could become a real problem given that people are already so ginned up about some vague and undefined corruption at all levels of government, business, the courts, the military. I’ve always thought the Clinton foundation was a mistake– like its namesake, well-intentioned, overly ambitious, self-regarding and star-fucking– and an even bigger mistake for HRC to get directly involved with it when she left State, also too, the Speeches, as much as I’m still sick of listening to the High Sparrow squawk about them.
Bubba’s a case apart, that’s for sure. I can equally see a part of his brain saying, “Loretta’s right over there! I’m gonna go say hi!”, and another part saying “The Attorney General, who owes me for putting her in a position to be appointed, is over there. I shall go receive my due homage as her benefactor and the nation’s leading Elder Statesman.” But in no part of his brain, as skeptical as I am of him, do I imagine the thought, “I’m gonna go make sure she knows she better not cross Hillary!”
aimai
@gvg: Right–Bill knows everyone and in the Right Wing imagination that web of connections is like Evil Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Look at the shrieking that went on over Bill Clinton shaking a few hands outside of polling stations in Blue Blue Massachusetts? After that story went the rounds of the Bernie crew you’d have thought Bill Clinton used his Navy Seal/Secret Service team to blockade Bernie’s voters from even getting to the polls.
Paul in KY
@MattF: It is a close call, isn’t it? I’m also thinking I would have to vote Trump over Greg Stillson (who’s just another Universe’s version of Cruz).
MattF
@Ultraviolet Thunder: But what’s the point of this? “Let’s collaborate illegally to send out fundraising emails to people who can’t legally contribute to the campaign.” I just don’t get it.
My theory is that the Trump camaign was scammed by right-wing vendors of mailing lists. At least in that case, someone comes out ahead.
Paul in KY
@Mnemosyne: Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos!
aimai
@O. Felix Culpa: You do realize that if Bill agreed to be locked up in Purdah for the entirety of the campaign, as well as the first four years, we would hear nothing but innuendo about how Hillary has locked him up because of fake scandal X, Y, or Z (to quote the classics).
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Or, ‘I’ll get some attention”
Paul in KY
@debit: Oh, you’d get a trinket all right! Buwahahahahahah!!!!!
Technocrat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
This is the best take so far, I think.
catclub
@Paul in KY: Jefferson Davis. I also pick Trump over Ted Nugent. Tossup between Paul LePage
and Trump. LePage is only fucking up veto signings. What ever happened on the thing he thought he pocket vetoed?
I liked this:
OT: WaMonthly thinks Elizabeth Warren’s speech on too much consolidation of big business will be a game changer.
Sorry, I agree with her message but it will take more years of bringing it up.
aimai
@Ultraviolet Thunder: The common or binding thread is incompetence. Group incompetence, widely shared among people who are hired by the same incomptent people, is a kind of design in and of itself. Call it “unintelligent design.”
Paul in KY
@Matt McIrvin: LOL!!!! Can you imagine 2 of him, like the Krays?!
Anya
Whether this is a bullshit scandal or not is immaterial. Bill Clinton should have known better. He gave the GOP something they can use to continue their charge. Sometimes, I wonder if Bill wants his wife to win the presidency. He knows better so he must be doing these “unforced errors” on purpose.
ShadeTail
@O. Felix Culpa:
Seriously? First, how “circumspect” does Bill need to be to silence the shrieking horde? That’s not a rhetorical question, so please come up with a real answer.
And second, why should we give even one flying fuck about not outraging the right-wing fever swamps? All the noise they make is one of our biggest weapons against them. All we need to do is quote them to turn them, and the GOP by connection, into dirt in the eyes of mainstream USA. Every easy election they’ve ended up losing lately is proof of that.
So stop helping them by piling on and pretending that Mr. Clinton needs to not act normally.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@MattF:
They’re bumbling incompetents at fundraising. Using the same inaccurate fundraising email lists in two places. The error of including people who are prevented from contributing shows that the campaign provided the list to the super PAC. Doing that directly is illegal.
The foreign lawmakers’ emails on the list show they have no idea what they’re doing. Twice.
ETA: My plane’s finally here.
Have a good evening, all.
catclub
@Tom: My one note has sounded before I got to the party.
Thanks!
Trollhattan
@Paul in KY:
Voting for Cruz is almost literally voting for Ramsay Bolton. Creepiest presidential candidate with an actual shot at the nomination I can remember.
pamelabrown53
@Mnemosyne:
Thank you! We get all ginned up by buying into the wingers’ outrage infrastructure. We spend too much of our time arguing with each other over trifles and demanding a purity that the other side never does. I’d say we concern troll ourselves to defeat.
Stella
@Paul in KY: I’d vote Trump over Jefferson Davis. I’d probably prefer Silvio Berlusconi to Trump, though. I think that Silvio is a little smarter.
O. Felix Culpa
@aimai:
Snort. Excellent point. And the accompanying images of dominatrix HRC in leather and chains.
ETA: With apologies to anyone offended by those optics.//
MattF
@aimai: An old friend of mine says that we won’t get Artificial Intelligence until we first get Artificial Stupidity. So, it’s a step in the wrong direction, but it’s a step.
Mike E
We are all DougJ now!
catclub
@Ultraviolet Thunder:
my guess is that although the actual contribution from a foreign entity is illegal, they did not bother to make stupidly asking said foreign
entity for a donation illegal.
eclare
@Technocrat: FWIW, agree. Can see either of those thought trains in Bill’s brain.
Shell
Maybe that spinning Hell Vortex in the closet from the film “Poltergeist.”
Trollhattan
@Stella:
Bunga-bunga for president!
gene108
And on the Republican side things there’s a case filed against Donald Trump by a “Jane Doe” claiming he raped her, when she was 13, back in 1994.
dogwood
@MattF:
I don’t think there’s a point to anything the Donald does. He just does and says whatever comes to mind in the moment. Lots of people think he really doesn’t want to be president. If he actually knew anything about the job, then I might agree with that. I think he wants it because he’s so completely ignorant about it in the first place. Who wouldn’t want to be president if your perception of the office is that of a first grader.
Mark B
@srv: I think William Weld and Gary Johnson are hoping to pick up most of the Giant Meteor vote. Which is why they’re polling at around 8%. If they get that much or better in November, it might be a shakeup for the two party system, since the Libertarians have a real party apparatus, unlike most flash in the pan third candidates. I don’t think they have any chance of winning in the near term, but they could soak up the less crazy voters from the Republicans which can become a total tea party white resentment permanent minority party. They’re mostly there already, anyway.
Paul in KY
@catclub: Wow, Trump vs LePage, man that’s a tough one. I think I would have to go Trump, as I think LePage is more of an evil Republican & Trump being a Trump-1st buffoon.
I personally would vote for Davis over Trump (if Davis was living in the present & presumably had moderated his odious racial views. 1865 Davis, Trump all the way).
Also Trump over Nugent as Ted is insane & would get us into some kind of WW III thing. Trump needs people to visit his properties.
aimai
@O. Felix Culpa: I also want to point out that the Right Wing perfected these attacks on Clinton and then used them on Obama and Michelle. People seem to be forgetting that the Right Wing and their media lapdogs ran with attacks 24/7 on Michelle, specifically, for eating out, taking the girls out, travelling on a plane as first lady, working on nutrition, being barefoot in the white house, wearing gorgeous dresses, wearing inexpensive Target clothes (and looking fabulous). They attacked our famously uxurious and smitten President as a closeted gay man, and attacked Michelle (the mother of two children) as a male to female transexual. And that was just for starters. There is NEVER any there there. And its not because of something that Bill does that this stuff is lobbed at him. The right wing does this crap for the same reason a dog licks his own balls–because they can. But by the same token we don’t have to be the audience for it.
Southern Goth
@debit:
“We’ve got to do something about these hobbits crossing our borders and committing acts of terrorism or worse. When I’m elected, I will build an even bigger wall and make the Shire pay for it.”
Haydnseek
@Anya: I am really impressed by the people in this thread who claim with certainty to be able to read Bill Clinton’s mind. You and Trentrunner should take up a collection and you can all get a room.
Eric U.
this whole thing should have been wrapped up by now. It was ridiculous from the start.
Paul in KY
@Shell: The spinning Hell vortex did not hurt the little girl, so it has that going for it. Close call for me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
also, if I remember correctly, isn’t the FBI actually investigating the way the server and emails were handled by State Dept employees after Clinton had left office? or at least that was how they officially got involved?
jl
@Haydnseek:
” Bill Clinton should have known better. ”
How is that simple statement reading his mind? He should have known better.
Anya
@Haydnseek: what? We’re not allowed to comment on current events?
Trentrunner
@Haydnseek: LOL so you’re saying you’re a pimp?
patroclus
I think I’d vote for Sarandon over Trump, but it would be a close call.
Stella
@gene108: Another Berlusconi parallel.
redshirt
@Southern Goth: Sauron is great a gift giving too. Heck, in a former life he was known as “The Lord of Gifts”.
Fantastic guy.
Trollhattan
@gene108:
IIRC at least one of the encounters was in his daughter’s bedroom. His claim of being able to get away with shooting somebody on 5th Avenue appears to be true.
redshirt
I’d definitely vote Palpatine over Trump. Palpatine knew how to get things done.
jl
It is irritating though, that this tiny nothingburger filigree on a nothingburger scandal is all over the news, due to the right wing propaganda machine that the media always seems to listen too and believe, or at least report out (over and over and over again). While Trump incompetence and perhaps lawlessness in soliciting foreign contributions merits nary a mention, at least that I have heard. TPM blog says Trump campaign and PAC still spamming several foreign legislatures.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: Read the rest of the comment in question:
O. Felix Culpa
@ShadeTail:
Please to explain how my preference that he had not done this equates to aiding and abetting the enemy. I’m actively working in the HRC campaign and on voter registration. I did that in the primary and am helping develop the ground game for the general. How about you? I’ve also had to explain to actual, truly concerned (that is, not concern troll) Hillary supporters that Bill’s little tete-a-tete with Loretta Lynch is truly innocuous and nothing for them to worry about. Not sure how that counts as “piling on.”
Nevertheless, this too shall pass.
Mnemosyne
@My Truth Hurts:
When the BernieOrBusters on my Facebook feed stop posting stupid shit about how Bernie should be awarded California because more counties voted for him than for Hillary and square mileage should count for more than actual votes cast, then I will let up on them for being gullible morons.
Until then, no quarter.
patroclus
Oh! My bad. Y’all said “Sauron” not “Sarandon”. Yeah, Sauron for sure over Trump!
Eric U.
@MattF: I think you are right about the email list vendor ripping off Trump and the Pac. But I think we should have a multi-year FBI investigation just to make sure. And make Trump pay for it
Haydnseek
@Anya: Of course you are. But claiming psychic powers to make your point is more than just a bit much. Others in this thread obviously disagree.
Schlemazel Khan
@srv:
In a world that you inhabit I can totally understand.
Redshift
Apparently the FSM really does love us that much! Via TPM: Gingrich And Christie Reportedly Top Trump’s VP List
Paul in KY
Am really gone now for weekend. Hope all have a great one!
Haydnseek
@Trentrunner: Nah. Just trying to save you guys a few bucks.
Shell
Now thats some unique thinkin’!
Tom Q
For those who ask, why do the Clintons attract such trolling?, the answer is simple: he got by the press in NH in 1992. They hit him with both barrels, over Gennifer Flowers and the draft, and he was expected to drop out meekly (as all in the past, from George Romney to Gary Hart, had). But Bill — perhaps taking a good look at the Triple-A opposition he had in the Dem primary — decided he could win anyway, and stayed in till he did.
But press bloodlust was unleashed, and they spent all 8 years of Clinton’s administrations buying into any two-bit rumor the right wing threw out. When they finally thought they had something, the Lewinsky thing, their glee was uncontained. When the public responded, with its 70% approvals that effectively said Over our dead bodies, the press became morose; they never once gave Clinton his due as a popular president.
They did get a measure of revenge by seeing to it Clinton was unable to get his successor elected — an election where the press put as heavy a thumb on the scale as I’ve ever seen. But if Hillary were to be elected, it would mean the Clintons have beaten the press permanently. Many of them simply cannot let that stand.
And for those who are saying If only Bill knew how to avoid these things that make him look bad…I might take this more seriously had I not been hearing the like from people in my camp since the 90s. (Why didn’t he know not to fire the travel staff? Why did he hold up air traffic to get a haircut? He must have done SOMETHING wrong in Whitewater!) They’ll always find a way to interpret something innocuous as sinister. Don’t buy into their game.
catclub
@Mark B:
I don’t see it, unless you think Ross Perot getting 19% and zero electoral votes in 1992 was an even bigger shakeup.
Trentrunner
@Trollhattan: I’m happy to be the first to say it out loud:
Trump has fucked his daughter Ivanka.
I’m just saying what everyone’s thinking, folks.
aimai
@Eric U.: This. The Democrats never play hardball the way the Republicans do. If Trump were Hillary is there any way that a Republican AG and FBI wouldn’t have been all over this investigation from the get go? Sending stern letters threatening to depose everyone who ever worked in Trump Towers anywhere in the world? We are such fucking amateurs–and we let Trump (and Bernie) get away with “I didn’t know nothing” every time.
D58826
@Technocrat: Everyone’s favorite VSP, Mrs. Greenspan, said yesterday that Bill has been doing these impromptu visits for years. If his secret service detail picks up that another detail with a politician in tow is in the neighborhood, he pops over for a visit. According to Mrs. G. he even popped into to see Tailgunner Ted when he still had a secret service detail.
The funny thing about it, is I saw the article on a Breitbart link on Twitter. Apparently they latched onto the words bad optics but never read the entire transcript.
As far as unforced errors on Bill’s part, the Goopers are going to scream bloody murder no matter what he does. Remember all the yelling about Obama and the flag lapel pin by people who did not have flag lapel pins on as they yelled. Or the photo of Obama’s feet on the desk, just like W and Saint Ronulus the Unready. If the Clinton’s don’t do something they will complain about them not doing something or they will just make something up.
O. Felix Culpa
@aimai:
Excellent word!
I totally agree with you. I just wish I didn’t have to explain to people on our own side that the latest ginned-up story about the Clintons is just that: another ginned-up story. The media have been feeding the frenzy for so long, that otherwise intelligent and informed people don’t seem able to differentiate.
Miss Bianca
@Trentrunner: eww. why would you be *happy* to say that, for all love? Whether you meant in the literal or the metaphorical sense.
Trollhattan
O/T Jerry makes his choices among the swath of gun bills on his desk.
If our gun laws are so “stringent” how are there so goddamn many?
Mnemosyne
@Technocrat:
Chelsea is married to a Wall Street dude that she’s known since high school, whose parents are former Democratic politicians who have been friends with the Clintons for 40+ years.
If you tuned out of that sentence as soon as you saw “Wall Street dude,” you are part of the problem.
Obviously, Technocrat, the “you” in the sentence above doesn’t refer to you, unless it does. ;-)
Haydnseek
@Trentrunner: No. Just suggesting that you all might want to mingle with people who have similar powers. I receive no money, just the good wishes of those who had a nice time.
Amir Khalid
@Anya:
I don’t agree that Bill or Hillary should live in fear of provoking scandalmongers. Firstly, it’s no way to live. Second, the scandalmongers will be there sniffing at their heels no matter how innocently they go about their business.
Technocrat
@Redshift:
Honestly, Gingrich as a VP pick excites me. Who here doesn’t want to see Trump shut Newt down mid-sentence and say “Go to the plane. Go home”? Gingrich as Trump Hostage appeals to me at the hindbrain level.
catclub
@Tom Q:
The Hunting of the president guys wrote that it started before that. The Clinton Rules. If the Clinton’s did it, it must be suspicious.
Anya
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t understand what’s contravertial about my comment. All my life, I was told Bill Clinton is the greatest politician ever. But somehow when it comes to his wife, all I see is a finger wagging guy without any emotional regulation. Why would someone this talented, someone who knows the republicans so well do stupid shit like these? That’s all I am asking. Also, I am not even constructing a hypothesis so to call it “reading Bill Clinto’s mind” is an idiotic defense.
Schlemazel Khan
@Shell:
It was THE argument for Boy Blunder in 2000. The Wurlitzer worked overtime spreading a map showing huge red spaces versus smaller blue ones. No matter that more people live in Manhattan than Wyoming, all those coyotes & cacti need some Presidentin’ too ya know.
D58826
@catclub: @catclub: And it’s even more suspicious if they didn’t do anything. It just means that hid it even better than anyone could imagine.
Technocrat
@Mnemosyne:
Clearly, the Clinton family needed to have an “optics” talk:
Chelsea: “But Mom, I love him!”.
Hillary: “You are so selfish! Have you even considered how angry Charles Krauthammer will be??”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anya:
Given that I don’t think that this was particularly stupid, I can’t answer your question.
Hoodie
This is less than a nothingburger. For all those pissing and moaning about “optics,” besides being the husband of the presumptive nominee who happens to be involved in this ridiculous investigation, Bill Clinton is also a former two-term President of the United States of America. That’s a pretty exclusive club and has its perks, like your own security detail and people paying attention to you when you’re around. She knows him, she was there with her husband, and she’s already indicated she will abide with whatever the career FBI agents and prosecutors recommend. The GOP and, more disgustingly, the media will try to find anything to pin on the Clintons, no matter what they try to avoid. Christ, they can’t win; they criticize HRC for being “guarded” and then turn around an insinuate a bunch of nonsense about a harmless encounter like this. Clinton probably said “fuck it, I’m going to say hello to Loretta and her husband.” It’s silly to lend any credence to this bullshit with a bunch of handwringing about appearances, especially when the guy you’re running against is a amoral swindler who probably should be imprisoned for fraud.
catclub
@aimai:
I disagree. The democrats don’t do it the way the GOP does because it would cost them votes – which is the best hardball of all to play.
Grayson played it much like the GOP and it did not help him.
The crazies in the far right say the exact same thing, but about the GOP, they never stand up to Obama, the Democrats are kicking our asses because we never play hardball the way they do.
Humdog
There is, to me, more than a hint of the old, “I have no problems with ________, just why do they have to be that way in public where I have to see it?” All the people who are saying that the Clintons know they are being watched, why can’t they do nothing ever to be noticed because someone always makes it look bad are absolutely wrong. You are agreeing with the premise that the Clintons cannot live their lives but have to fit into the outrageous constraints the vast right wing conspiracy have created. Why can’t the gay people be less flamboyant so I don’t have to notice them? Why can’t black people behave more like this so I don’t have to see them behaving as they choose. It sucks and it is crap that too many scaredy Democrats play along. Stop it!
Can’t the Clintons live? Not even to mention the ridiculousness of patrolling benign behavior of the Clintons all the while becoming desensitized to the dumpster fire on the other side. Yesterday, Bill met with his friend, who he appointed. Scandal. Of course, Rump cannot add to nine, claims Mexico’s Air Force is flying over Maine and he gave a rousing speech outlining the different methods of torture he wants to start using. Yeah, Bill’s meeting was the scandal!!
randy khan
@srv:
The FBI has been saying for some time that they would interview her last.
Meeting her at her house instead of the Justice Department or the FBI’s DC office suggests that they’re not going to be dropping any bombshells and that they don’t think they have anything particular on her.
Keith G
Not having read the above comments cuz I just got home from work, I will reiterate what I said elsewhere. The meeting was stupid and deserves much of the scorn (but none of the conspiracy theories) heaped up on it.
It is just fucking fucking fucking stupid for Bill Clinton to meet with the person heading the department which is investigating the actions of his wife’s office while the investigation is going on, and it is fundamentally also stupid for said department head to not say, “Hi there President Clinton. I shouldn’t speak with you right now. Let’s do this in a month or so.”
And the Press should make noise over this, because I want them making noise whenever something like this happens – it doesn’t matter if we’re talking about activity at the county sheriff level or at the Department of Justice.
The moment I heard the first snippet of this stupid incident yesterday, I just could not believe that Bill Clinton would have no sense of consequences, but then again, I guess that’s sort of been a problem of his.
O. Felix Culpa
On another note, LOVE that picture of HRC at the top. Her expression says it all.
Anya
@Amir Khalid: I didn’t say they should live in fear. But, imo, this was ill advised. At a time when Hillary was beating Trump, his little stunt changed the topic. At this junction, he should avoid anything that has the appearance of a conflict of interest. I don’t believe they did anything improper but it’s all the media is talking about right now. He put the AG in an awkward place.
aimai
@Tom Q: Everyone should re-read The Hunting Of the President written by my cousin Joe Conason and Gene Lyons, a superb reporter. And read this great Media Matters piece on the long war of the Washington Post and Sally Quinn against the Clintons and the Democrats in general. It is Sally Quinn who, on behalf of an outraged Washington clique, referred to Washington as “our town” and contrasted its rage with tacky Bill and his sex scandal with the bewildering indifference of the public at large to it. She, at least, was clear that the fatuous hysteria over a Presidential Blow Job was of zero importance to the rest of the country. Its just that she thought the public, who approved of Bill Clinton’s job as president, should take a lesson from the elites, and not the other way around.
RaflW
E-Mail Benghazi: Electric Boogaloo will never come to an end. Ever. The Clintons will be hounded until death and beyond by Republicans. The GOP dog long ago caught the bumper, and still doesn’t know what to do with it, so they get dragged along, teeth clenched, thinking they are winning.
cckids
@msdc:
Last night’s Daily Show had Jessica Williams interviewing a group of Sanders dead-enders who’ll supposedly be voting Trump. (I cannot figure how to link just that part of the episode, but it’s at Comedy Central’s site)
The visceral HATE these people have for Hillary just defies belief, and they have no good reason for it. They are delusional! Facts have no place in their world. It started as humorous, and quickly got kind of scary & depressing.
aimai
@Humdog: He appointed her–its not like the Republicans wouldn’t be ginning that up as a scandal in and of itself when she fails to request the excution of the whore, Hillary Clinton, for her treasonous email behavior.
Kathleen
@Schlemazel Khan: Yes, NPR always manages to find people who love Sanders and Trump and hate PBO and HRC. I’ve had too many almost drove my car off the road moments with National Republican Radio.
Miss Bianca
@Humdog: this.
Linda
@muddy: You win the Internet. It’s like some dopey sitcom where the daddy spends the day home with the kids and jacks everything up on purpose so his wife will quit her job.
aimai
@Anya: It didn’t change the topic. This is politics. Climb off the ledge. The thing that a lifetime in politics has taught Hillary, as well as working with Obama, is that you can’t let what other people do or say knock you off your stride. Trump is going to continue to make massive errors and even outright crimes and nothing is going to make the press cover that in depth, or attack Trump. Hillary and her surrogates have to keep on keeping on despite the mud slinging that is coming their way every day, regardless of what they do. Just brush it off your shoulder, like Obama did. The people who mind don’t matter, and the people who matter don’t mind.
Mnemosyne
@O. Felix Culpa:
Well, yeah, that’s worth a quick forehead slap. But I think that all sensible Democrats know the vast majority of the blame lies with the media, which is pretending that a meet-and-greet with a longtime Democratic politician and her husband is somehow nefarious.
FFS, I remember when some people tried to spin it into a scandal when the Clintons let Bill’s longtime secretary Betty Currie adopt Socks since she retired after Bill’s second term and had come to love the cat while she was working there. The MSM can gin a scandal up out of ANYTHING at this point. Give ’em a rock and a dead leaf and they’ll make a fuckin’ puppet show about how Corrupt the Clintons are.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
It was her last segment for TDS, so it’s linked in a few places. I haven’t watched it yet. I hope she joins the ranks of those whose best work came after they left– Colbert, Carrell and now Bee. She was always a favorite of mine.
Religion can survive without a god, but not without a Devil. Uncle Bernie Dumbledore spent six months telling them she was the living incarnation of Voldemort.
Gex
@Mnemosyne: I sit here and notice that the Sanders campaign did the best in the whitest states, complained about the votes of the browner states, and like Republicans, prefer large areas of land to have as much say as people in urban areas.
Do NOT draw conclusions from that. Sanders supporters don’t like it when brown people like me tell them what about their campaign is off putting to them. And even if you do, they will just tell you you are imagining things. That is when they aren’t telling you that you are too stupid to vote right.
Anya
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, AG Lynch dissagrees with you. And I hate that it forced her to issue a statement, and to say this:
piratedan
apparently MTH is waiting for single payer to be enacted so they can finally have their truth healed….
Barbara
@ShadeTail: Indeed. They are nothing but outrage. Having failed for going on 12 years to come up with a single policy that appeals to the masses (Medicare Part D would be the last such policy), the Republican Party and its right wing hangers on have nothing to propel them in any direction at all except outrage. It’s going to be all outrage all the time. With Obama, it was outrage over the Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers and speaking to the nations’ students on the first day of school in 2009 and health care reform and executive orders and and and. It’s like life support to a brain dead corpse. You can keep the heart beating for a long time after any evidence of sentient life has gone away.
nastybrutishntall
@My Truth Hurts: My God, you folks are delicate. You’d think, given your hope that Clinton fails, you’d have more backbone and resilience. Wishing for the failure of the Democratic Party and rooting for the subsequent rise of fascism just so your guy looks a bit better is apparently just like passing around a talking stick.
D58826
@Anya: The problem is, no matter what the Clintons do it will be ginned up into one more Clinton scandal. For the casual political observer, i.e. once every 4 years, the press will talk about the Clinton scandals and the voter will think ‘ah ha where there is smoke there must be fire. they are politicians after all’. And when they do something that really is stupid, i.e. Monica/email server, it just gets folded into the ‘Clinton scandals’ narrative and nothing more needs to be said. The media spend 8 years trying to figure out the Clinton marriage. Now they will spend heaven knows how much time trying to figure out what Bill thinks of Hillary as POTUS. But all ofthat is so much easier than trying to figure out the ins and outs of TPP or a stragegy to deal with Daesh.
To put it another way – when you check out at the supermarket count the number of magazines talking about Kim and Kanye or whither Jennifer A. has had her 16th baby yet. Then count the number of magazines like Time.Newsweek/etc that mostly deal in real news. TV news isn’t much different.
Huffington is now calling it an ‘avoidable scandal’. Avoidable maybe but what the h***ll is the scandal? Did they have 3 way sex?. If the fix is in to get Hillary off the hook, that happened months ago. Lynch and the FBI would not have allowed Obama to go out and give Hillary his fullthroated endorsement if there was even a remote chance that there was criminal wrong doing.
O. Felix Culpa
@aimai:
Having missed that book the first time around, I will definitely give it a read. I was living outside the country for much of that era, so I expect it will provide useful backfill/context for me. Thanks for the recommendation.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Now I’m seeing Allie Brosch illustrations in my head: “I think the optics are bad on this one, Rock! What do *you* think?”
“Well, I don’t have any eyes, Leaf, but just from the sound of it I’m willing to believe it’s bad!”
“Thank you, Rock! That’s just what I think!”
Jacel
@muddy: It isn’t as if Bill Clinton was talking Loretta Lynch out of the blue. When he was President he nominated Lynch as a US Attorney in 1999.
Technocrat
@randy khan:
Some of the conservatives I know think she will be getting an ankle bracelet. No, they really do.
This is why I vent on the Internet.
Mnemosyne
@Anya:
Honestly, I think it’s because Bill is human, and he loves his wife, and seeing her get constantly attacked pisses him off. I strongly suspect that both Bill Clinton and Michelle Obama hold more grudges about 2008 than either Hillary or Barack do, because it’s always easier to forgive a slight or insult against yourself than it is to forgive one against a loved one.
That’s also why Chelsea was a terrible surrogate — she loves her mom, so she’s going to defend her no matter what.
muddy
@Anya: +1
Amir Khalid
@Anya:
All I see here is an innocent meeting between old friends. How was this a stunt, how was it ill-advised? If Bill or Hillary were discouraged from greeting their old friends to keep from provoking the scandalmongers, that would be exactly what I call living in fear.
Anya
@aimai: Aside from considering my mild statement being over “a ledge,” I agree with what you said. I just hope BC wouldn’t give the media and the GOP any ammunition.
Origuy
@Paul in KY:
Pinhead from Hellraiser?
O. Felix Culpa
@Mnemosyne:
Truth.
Keith G
@Humdog:
As one of the Queers here, I think this part of your analogy just left the rails. Eeeeek!
Dear lord, I am not saying that the Clinton’s (in this case) cannot live their lives – how silly. I just want the members of this very powerful political family (who are trying to re-acquire the highest office of political leadership in this state) to think a few moves ahead.
Given the “climate”, avoiding that particular meeting was a no brainier.
Miss Bianca
@Anya: All I’m getting from that statement is, “Jesus Christ, how fucking stupid were we to think that we could get away with having a friendly chat in the middle of an airport tarmac?”
Barbara
@Anya: As much as I understand this, I don’t think this is right. No one seriously thinks that Lynch would discuss an investigation with Clinton on the fly, let alone with her husband in the room. If they thought that then they should have been equally outraged when Fat Tony Scalia went hunting with people whose businesses had cases in front of him. It’s just false and hysterical, and the sad part is, when it isn’t we won’t even know.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anya: Well, now that the GOP, MSM, and good chunk of Democrats have worked themselves into a tizzy about it, what choice does she have? I still don’t think that there was anything really wrong with what happened.
Anya
@Amir Khalid: I think the AG is different, specially when there’s an active bullshit investigation going on.
Trollhattan
@nastybrutishntall:
I don’t find the poster credible and suspect it’s a faux-Berner troll, Republican flavor. Girding myself for four months of these fakes.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
Most of the media reports have been consistently editing out the fact that Lynch *and her non-lawyer, non-politician husband* met with Bill. No lawyer on Earth is going to discuss an active case in front of someone who’s not involved. Na. Gah. Happen. That’s why the media keeps conveniently “forgetting” to mention Lynch’s husband was there, too.
kindness
@srv: You know, way back when….you had entertaining posts from time to time. What happened to you? (I don’t really want an answer)
Mark B
@catclub: Ross didn’t have an enduring party structure, so it was a flash in the pan. It was a one-man movement, and the Libertarians, wrong-headed as they are on most issues, are going to be around in all 50 states for the forseeable future.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
@Anya:
I agree with Omnes #184.
Technocrat
@Omnes Omnibus:
Exactly. Clearly she didn’t think it was a big deal at the time, or she wouldn’t have met with Bill.
dogwood
@aimai:
“By the same token we don’t have to be the audience for it”
I think people forget that they aren’t powerless in their own environment. I know a few liberals who are constantly frustrated when they get into shouting matches with wingers. You don’t have to engage these people to assert yourself. I had gall bladder surgery at the beginning of the tea party movement. After I was sedated, but before I was out, the anesthesiologist went on an anti-Obama rant, Of course I was too groggy to respond, but when I was in recovery, I told the nurse what happened and asked to see an administrator. Talked to the administrator, and the douche was forced to come in with his tail between his legs and apologize. I didn’t argue with the guy; I let him know I would tell everyone I knew what he did to me, and them politely asked him to leave. That experience taught me a lesson. When I had to find a new doctor a few years later, before I finalized the appointment with the office manager I asked her flat out if the doctor supported Obamacare. She was uncomfortable but she answered that the doctor was a supporter, and I made the appointment. I’m always amazed at friends who tell stories of being trapped in family and social situations that make them uncomfortable, yet they stay. There’s not much I can do to control what wingers do and say in national, state and local government, but I don’t have to enable their white, entitled, faux outrage in my personal life.
Anya
@Omnes Omnibus: There’s a difference between wrong in terms of wrong doing and politically stupid. He should’ve expected that the media, Democrats and the perpetually outraged pundit class would do the GOP’s bidding and work “themselves into a tizzy about it”. That’s a default setting. All I ask is that he doesn’t give them any ammunition. They’ll try to build a fire out of anything. Just. Don’t. Help!
Emma
@Anya: No she doesn’t agree. She simply went into damage control mode vis-a-vis the press. However, it won’t help. When there are no indictments, she’ll be blamed anyway. Democrats explain way too much time trying to butter up the press.
muddy
@Keith G: +100@Jacel: I don’t care if he knew her from before. Stay on your own plane Bill and mind your business. It’s not like they happened to be seated next to one another, he went from one plane to another just cuz.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anya: We obviously disagree.
Mnemosyne
@Anya:
I think that poor AG Lynch was surprised that a simple meet-and-greet for her and her husband got ginned up into some kind of gigantic conspiracy with people dredging up stupid crap like her stepdaughter’s misunderstanding with an Uber driver. What was she supposed to say?
raven
Where’s that soccer thread?
D58826
@Keith G: They made an issue out of Barak and Michelle doing a fist bump. Short of moving to Saint Helena or better yet Pitcairn island the gop will make an issue out of anything the Clintons do or don’t do or should have done sooner or later.
aimai
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Absolutely A fucking Perfect:
muddy
@Omnes Omnibus: Not truly on purpose, I think it’s subconscious.
raven
@aimai: It’s fucking A.
Miss Bianca
@Anya: And all we’re asking is that Democrats stop running around with their hair on fire every time something like this happens just because the right-wing nutjobs do. Particularly since, just as with the Great Big Blow Job That Didn’t Bring Down an Administration, the public at large doesn’t seem that fussed about it. That seems a *lot* easier than asking the Clintons to stop doing whatever *they* are doing to satisfy *us*.
Omnes Omnibus
@muddy: I disagree with your premise as well.
Applejinx
@MattF: Bollocks. I would vote for Hillary if she was in jail.
But then I’ve been scolded for my cynicism here. I think Hillary’s a powerful and capable politician in a hopelessly corrupt and fucked-up system, with the Republicans to blame for most of it but the Democrats far too used to sinking to their level.
The Clintons can beat them at their own game, and someone needs to be playing that game and directing the outcomes better. Clinton it is. We couldn’t ask for a better ‘Snape’ to do the dirty work of straightening this mess out.
I was told ‘we don’t need your vote’. Hah. How naive and childish are you? You’re gonna need a lot of votes just like mine, because people are never going to believe Hillary is an innocent flower child with no past. But they CAN believe her interest is served by saving our sorry asses, because the fact is, that’s the simple truth. She stands to gain by saving the day, and we wouldn’t want her to be naive and feckless.
I would vote for her if she was in jail.
Mike in DC
Clinton gets interviewed this weekend and I expect the FBI to clear her before the convention.
Haydnseek
@muddy: Really? Why? He’s been her fiercest defender throughout the shitstorm that only figures to get exponentially worse with each passing day, and has been since the very beginning. If you know something about Bill’s subconscious that we don’t, please share!
Anya
@Mnemosyne: I actually think Chelsea is a great surrogate. She knows how to mock or ignore stupid questions. I saw a video of some moron (not sure if he was a Berniebro or a wingnut) asking her about her ‘questionable paternity rumors,” she didn’t even flinch. I have new respect for her. She knows how to handle bullshit or crazy questions. She just needs to be briefed better on policy related issues.
Kathleen
@Schlemazel Khan: Yes, NPR always manages to find people who love Sanders and Trump and hate PBO and HRC. I’ve had too many almost drove my car off the road moments with National Republican Radio.
@Technocrat: v
aimai
@D58826: Right. This. In the real world there are no unavoidable Clinton Scandals because every one of them–including the Monica Lewinsky matter–was ginned up. People forget that George Bush senior had a mistress but the press never pursued him about it or published her name or tried to get Bush in some kind of perjury trap and force him to testify about it. Consensual sex with another adult is not a crime in this country, and it wasn’t when Bill Clinton engaged in it. The entire controversy and the impeachment was ginned up–it didn’t happen to other Presidents before because the Press and the opposition parties protected them from this kind of attack. Its just that the Clinton Rules made Clinton vulnerable–and if it hadn’t been for the ongoing investigations of them in the entirely made up Whitewater scandal the Republicans wouldn’t have had the ability to appoint the special counsel to mount the inquisition in the first place.
The thing that people simply can’t grasp–and again I urge everyone to read The Hunting of the President–is that there has never been any there there in the attacks on the Clintons. Its totally made up all the way down. Sure–the guy is a horn dog, but that isn’t illegal and never was. Has nothing to do with his presidency. The fact that the Right Wing also pretends to be outraged about Clinton’s sex life doesn’t mean that the rest of the crap they threw at him was true in any sense.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne: I have no doubt that Lynch behaved completely with in the bounds of the ethics of her office, but point is: It should not even be up for contention. Yet, part of high office is the appearance as well as the action. In these positions of public trust it is better if actions are such that the public does not have to guess at the behavior of the principals.
Alberto Gonzales drove me crazy by running an office that both in appearance and in deed blatantly ignored professional ethics. I am not giving any leniency for my side – a group I am proud to hold to a higher standard.
aimai
@raven: I know, I just felt like changing it up a bit.
muddy
@Miss Bianca: My hair is on not on fire unless you count my natural color. I just think Bill Clinton is not being helpful to Hillary.
I love Hillary, it’s Bill who needs to stop and think before he does stuff like that. He as much as anyone knows how they will act. Why give them ammo?
Was it just that important that he had have that casual conversation right then in public and never mind the consequences? He’s not 5.
Keith G
@D58826: Jesus…these are different issues.
aimai
@Keith G: And this is why Democrats end up losing. We hold our own side to such high standards that we often can’t be bothered to fight for our naturally imperfect politicians. Meanwhile the opposition who are gunning for us literally shoot people in the face, or party with Supreme Court figures, with impunity.
aimai
@Keith G: So was Michelle Obama guilty of putting her bare feet on the White House furniture? Was she guilty of ordering steak and lobster at a fancy restaurant? Was she guilty for having secret service protection when she went abroad, or to Hawaii for Christmas Break? There is never any bottom to the scandals and improprities that the right wing assigns to Democratic Presidents. Why join with them in these attacks? It won’t stop them from making the attacks, and it won’t improve the behavior of people like Michelle or Clinton, who absurdly and with malice aforethought continue to live their lives as though they weren’t criminals.
Aleta
@Paul in KY: Cheney comes to mind as a contender
Mnemosyne
@Applejinx:
What was the slogan they used when David Duke was running against a governor who had been convicted of embezzlement? I think it was “Vote for the Crook, It’s Important.”
Ninety-nine percent of the stuff ginned up against Bill and Hillary is total bullshit. I was there. I remember. But if some people decide they’d rather have a smoothly corrupt political operator running things over the dumpster fire that is Donald Trump, I ain’t gonna argue unless they keep crying about the coulda woulda shoulda that they preferred.
Applejinx
@jl: Are you kidding? Bill Clinton will do whatever he wants.
It’s going to be a… colorful four (or eight) years. It’s also going to get us out of very serious trouble as a country, so I’m inclined to give him, and Hillary, a pass at this point. There is nothing they can do that will shake me IF, repeat IF, Hillary can get the economy to cough and turn over and start up for normal people. Screw averages, you get one kajillionaire taking all the money and then they say ‘on average, everything is just great!’. Stop that and get Americans spending money again, I don’t care how. Tax it, print it, anything. That, and come down hard on American racism of all kinds, and let’s make some progress on sexism. Economy + social justice excuses a lot.
How can you even be surprised when Bill Clinton acts this way, or behave for a moment like he can be punished or held responsible in any way? Hillary’s on track for putting him in the White House AGAIN. They’re a team, a damn effective one. They are untouchable, immune from any consequence. And they know it, and it doesn’t matter if they can do what needs to be done.
Keith G
@aimai: What the fuck are you typing about?
muddy
@Haydnseek: I am basing my view of Bill’s subconscious on seeing his actions. It’s not the first time he’s been reckless, is it? In 2008 everyone was criticizing him on this blog for stupid things he was saying that weren’t helping Hillary.
I say subconscious because I don’t think he’s purposely trying to keep her down. But he’s a narcissist and needs attention on himself. It’s like he just can’t help it. Going over to another plane is not a casual thing that people ordinarily do, it wasn’t some set up meet&greet. He just went over there uninvited. What was she supposed to do, push him out the door?
But I bet AG Lynch wished he hadn’t come over and started a bunch of unnecessary shit either.
Calouste
@Mnemosyne: Also keep in mind that both Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch have a Secret Service detail. It’s not like they can just meet at a Starbucks for a cup of coffee, without inconveniencing the shit out of everybody else. Meeting on the tarmac of an airport is probably the most convenient for the rest of us.
les
@My Truth Hurts: Why don’t you go for honesty and change your name to “My Butt Hurts?”
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
How is an appearance of impropriety created when you bring *your spouse* to a personal meeting?
Seriously, I want to know.
muddy
@Keith G: Indeed.
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne: I’d like to see more people decide that, because it is important.
The Clintons stand to gain WAY more through doing right by the American people. This is not the 90s, and even then Bill jacked tax rates on the super wealthy and made them like it (because they earned more in the long run: it’s literal anti-austerity and it takes a Clinton to have the cojones to do it, knowing how many people will flip out at the very suggestion of redistribution)
Doug R
@O. Felix Culpa: The whole point of the meeting in a plane in an airport with witnesses was to not be circumspect.
Omnes Omnibus
@muddy:
Traveling on a private plane isn’t a thing that most people ordinarily do.
aimai
@Keith G: I think its pretty clear that I’m making fun of your concern trolling.
Applejinx
@Trentrunner: I’m in for ten bucks, because I’m poor. If Hillary picks Warren, I will give her money.
muddy
@Calouste: I know, especially since phone calls and emails have not been invented yet.
Technocrat
It’s funny that RedState has this and five anti-Trump stories on it’s front page. It must be so confusing to be a Republican right now.
Trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Am reminded of the recent Silicon Valley episode where the two billionaires were chatting on the apron between their respective jets only to discover they were both headed to Santa Fe. They agreed, just before leaving, to play a game of computer chess during their flights.
muddy
@Omnes Omnibus: True. Do they often jump from plane to plane uninvited to chat with people they should be keeping a distance from (for the time being)?
I don’t think anyone is doing anything dirty. Just fucking stupid.
SRW1
The biggest obstacle for an indictment is James Comey. That dude knows that an indictment would have to stand up in court, cause this would not be over if he recommended an indictment and Hillary stood down. And James Comey isn’t gonna do the Republicans a favor that would come crashing down on his reputation and doom him to ignominy beyond his days on this planet. Damn shame for the GOP that Comey is a Republican.
And why do I have the feeling that one of the persons most salivating for an indictment is a certain senator from Vermont?
cckids
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I suppose. It was just so, so personal.. As though she’d flunked them in freshman calc, kicked their puppy and told them their babies were ugly.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mike in DC: Excellent. That’s what would happen in a sane world.
Felonius Monk
@Omnes Omnibus: What’s this all about?
(via)
Us New Yorkers wants us our cheese. :-)
raven
@aimai: got it
Bailey
This will probably be a nothing burger of a scandal, but as an actual thing that happened is beyond stupid on Clinton’s part. This is law school 101. I don’t care if they talked about grandchildren and swapped recipes, this is clearly a violation of the bar against ex parte communications. Those rules are there for a reason and for Bill to so gleefully decide they don’t pertain to him is obnoxious.
Omnes Omnibus
@muddy:
I am not buying into the premise of your question, Nice try though, Do people visit one another on their respective private planes? I don’t see why not, but I don’t really move in those circles.
Origuy
Is Donald Trump on speed?
Iowa Old Lady
@SRW1: During the Saturday Night Massacre, Comey behaved like a man with ethics. He’s about as far from Gonzales as someone in the same business can get.
Technocrat
@Felonius Monk:
Don’t they hang cheese thieves in Wisconsin?
Omnes Omnibus
@Bailey: How is this an ex parte communication?
@Felonius Monk: We apparently don’t want to let it go.
@Technocrat: No death penalty in Wisconsin – not even for cheese theft.
cckids
@aimai:
Don’t forget the time Malia wore a shirt with a peace sign on it. In Russia. Can’t people see how damaging that was to our country??
My gods, these people are tools.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne:
You are certainly adding to the level of mirth here. Dear god. I just just don’t know where you are at.
Her husband? Oh, this hurts. Cramps.
sigaba
@Paul in KY: I would vote for Chancellor Gowron over Trump. I would however probably vote Trump over Gul Dukat.
Baud
@aimai:
I know Obama did nothing wrong by being born in Hawaii, but did he have to wait so long to release his long form birth certificate?
#Opticks
muddy
@Omnes Omnibus: What the elites do and don’t do on private planes is beside the point. He went, without need, to do something that would start a shitstorm. It’s on him.
And he was uninvited by Lynch, so just rude and entitled as well. He put her in a position she probably didn’t want to be in, and she had to smile and take it because of who he was. Let’s stick up for Lynch having now to get unnecessary BS, and not Bill for being pushy.
Keith G
@aimai: No. When we have lost it is because either the candidate or the campaign blew chunks.
les
@My Truth Hurts:
If the Sanders supporters are making smug tweets about this BS, they deserve insult at a minimum. If, like you, they’re not in or for the Dem party (“your party”), fuck them. If they’re not such assholes, why do they get offended? Does Sanders know his supporters are so knowledge and logic challenged? Sad!
Jack the Second
@gvg: This +1000.
Small infants learn to stop being alarmed at the sound of the air conditioner and the garbage truck because nothing ever comes of it. Our media has not reached that stage of development.
Personally, I don’t blame Bill one damn bit for his casual attitude towards everything. He’s the former goddamn President of the United Fucking States. You know the best part about being the ex-President? You get to put all the bullshit behind you. People don’t ask what you’re doing next, you’ve already done enough. Bill and George W could just spend the next twenty years down at the pier fishing, they’ve earned it. They’re done. If Bill was just Bill he could whore himself out for charity till the cows come home, taking any speaking engagement he wants, palling around with anyone he chooses to fill the coffers of the Clinton Foundation to do whatever good he can accomplish with his celebrity. The best part about being an ex-President is that you’re no longer a political chess piece, front page news.
But everyone gets all weird about it because Hillary is still on the board.
Let Bill enjoy his Presidential retirement and all the perks that comes with it; he has earned it.
Applejinx
@Tom Q:
Serves them right. Jesus CHRIST. Have you SEEN the press lately? Those of us who were on Bernie’s side in the early primaries know allll about the press. This is not the days of Watergate or Mencken. Fuck the press, they deserve to be beaten and we’re just going to have to muddle along without them.
The more the press try to decry a wealthy and corrupt world they themselves are completely complicit in by attacking Hillary Clinton, the better it’ll be for Clinton. People stopped trusting the press for good reason. We can’t trust Facebook either. There isn’t anything anywhere that’s not wholly captured and complicit, it’s just a matter of looking at what they’re selling.
Felonius Monk
@Omnes Omnibus:
But it was cheddar!
I wonder if there was a big theft of macaroni somewhere.
FlipYrWhig
@muddy:
It was utter bullshit then, too. OMIGOD BILL CLINTON SAID JESSE JACKSON RAN A GOOD CAMPAIGN TOO! SHAMEFUL AND REPREHENSIBLE
Technocrat
@muddy:
Ehhh, she’s the Attorney General of United States, not a waitress workin for tips. She’s a big girl.
Cermet
I have been saying for two days that Lynn’s actions were stupid and people have been asking “Why?” Well, Lynn herself said it was wrong and she shouldn’t have done it – her words BJ. End of story and done with explaining why since the Attorney General of the US says it was wrong – got it? Rather simple BJ.
dogwood
@Applejinx:
You really are naive. Hillary isn’t going to to even have the 2 years Obama had to accomplish something. The House ain’t turning over to the democrats. Get out of fantasy land and enter the real world.
Baud
Meanwhile, Obama and Biden will be campaigning with Hillary next week. #scandal.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
Not really an answer, though. How is an appearance of impropriety created when you signal that you are having a purely private meeting at which no business will be discussed by bringing your spouse to it?
In fact, I’m betting that’s exactly what AG Lynch was assuming — that no one would be stupid enough to think she was discussing government business at a meeting where her spouse was also present. Unfortunately, it looks like a lot of people *are* stupid enough to think that.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx:
Was Bernie Sanders treated roughly by the press? Seemed to me like he got quite a warm reception.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cermet:
Once people started running around with their hair on fire (yeah, I’m looking at you), she didn’t have much choice, did she?
Baud
@Cermet: Not really. What she said was she wouldn’t do it again because it’s not worth the headache that developed. It’s a reaction to the derp, not a justification for it.
FlipYrWhig
@Baud: New revelations in SOMEONE NAMED CLINTON TALKED TO A PERSON IN THE GOVERNMENT-GATE, which shows no signs of letting up.
Mnemosyne
@dogwood:
I disagree. I think that if Democrats work their asses off this year, we can turn this into a wave election and flip the House and Senate, too.
Even if we don’t succeed, wouldn’t you rather say that we tried? ?
Van Buren
@Paul in KY: CRUZ in a heartbeat. And Santorum, and Huckabee.
Felonius Monk
@Baud:
The real scandal is that Bernie will still be sitting around with his holier than thou thumb up his ass.
Mnemosyne
@Cermet:
Uh, her name is LYNCH. Loretta Lynch. You keep getting her name wrong, and it makes it look like you think she’s the country/western singer.
O. Felix Culpa
I’m out to tend my garden. The bindweed are almost as bad as Republicans. Or squabbling Democrats. :)
WRT Tarmacgate, this too shall pass.
Baud
@FlipYrWhig: Clintongate: The Greatest Scandal of Them All.
Baud
@Felonius Monk: Every time someone throws that guy a lifeline, he throws it right back.
aimai
Lynch had the courtesy, or the absurdity, to say that her meeting with Bill “cast a shadow” over the email probe. How on earth do you “cast a shadow” on something that is and always has been a total waste of time, ginned up conspiracy, crap attack on Hillary Clinton for something that every previous Secretary of State had done before her? The woman has been investigated and questioned, in public, for hours on every conceivable topic. She didn’t do anything wrong in the email matter and she isn’t going to be found to have done anythign wrong. Its about time that the Democrats stopped treating republican hysteria and fake outrage seriously.
Lynch should have said “Former President Clinton and I did not discuss any pending legal matter, nor would we ever have done so. I am outraged that the Republican Party and Media lapdogs are permitted to attack Democratic Public Servants like this over perfectly lawful conduct. ” That is all she should have said. And all any Democrat should say, either. Because its fucking true. The Republican party war on Democrats means that not only is there plenty of smoke without any fire--when you see smoke you had better start pointing at the fucking smoke machine and pointing out who the arsonists are. Never accept their framing. Never accept responsibility for other people’s deliberate smears and attacks. Qui s’excuse, s’accuse. So don’t ever, ever, offer any apologies or excuses.
Anya
No one is arguing that republicans aren’t full of shit. And no one is denying that they make up scandals out of thin air. And to my knowledge, at least on this thread, no one has argued the wingers weren’t racist dipshits to the Obamas. What we’re saying is there’s a difference between that stuff you’ve listed and this particular incident. We cannot complain about Scalia or Thomas’ conflict of interest & then shrug our shoulders when there’s an appearance of conflict of interest on our side. AG is the chief law enforcement officer of the land so there’s more expectation that she guards against these kinds of pitfalls. We can’t solve racist dipshit problem & republican outrage machine by ignoring everything our side does because the repubicans are worse. The reason President Obama is one of the few presidencies completely untouched by scandal, despite the GOP’s dedicated effort to unearth one, is because he never gave them anything.
Matt McIrvin
@dogwood: We might get the Senate, though, which would mean one gimme Supreme Court appointment, securing the ideological balance of the Court (assuming elimination of the filibuster for SCOTUS, which would surely happen) and probably more. That’s a big deal.
It’s not certain, though–regaining the Senate is a far less done deal than retaining the White House.
Felonius Monk
@Baud: Amen.
aimai
@Anya: Bill Clinton having public meetings with any official is not an appearance of impropriety. Its just not.
JMG
Lynch skillfully took herself off the hook. Now Comey, whom i don’t much like but who gets my sympathy here, has the responsibility for the call. As we know from 12 million Law and Order episodes, the cops make a case and the prosecutors tell them. “No, we need more.” Now Comey has to that himself.
Mnemosyne
@O. Felix Culpa:
Wait, I have a response for you if people registering to vote bring this up over the weekend.
First, practice your light laugh, and then shake your head and say, “I know, isn’t that story crazy? She brought her husband to meet Bill Clinton and now the press is acting like it was some secret meeting! It’s nuts!”
aimai
@Anya: I’d like to point out that the Republican Party puke funnel can just as easily argue that when Hillary campaigns with Obama they are colluding to end the email investigation. They can say anything about anyone anytime. Are Hillary and Bill never to be permitted to interact with any Democratic Officials for fear of the lies that the Republican party will spread about them? Because that is what it comes down to.
Baud
@Anya:
I disagree that there is even the appearance of a conflict here. No judge would recuse himself in a similar scenario.
les
@Anya: I don’t understand what’s contravertial about my comment. All my life, I was told Bill Clinton is the greatest politician ever. But somehow when it comes to his wife, all I see is a finger wagging guy without any emotional regulation.
O. Felix Culpa
@Mnemosyne: Glad I checked back. (Weeding isn’t all that much of a draw versus BJ.) I’ll be registering voters on the 4th, so this is a great response. Thanks!
Aleta
AG Lynch acknowledges that optics mattered in this particular event. (Goes without saying that her statement is part of necessary optics, too. But that doesn’t mean she is lying or kowtowing; personally I think her statement has integrity.)
John D
@Mnemosyne:
You should point out to the that Sanders is currently winning 25 counties in CA.
Clinton is winning 32.
(Map here)
dogwood
@Mnemosyne:
Of course we should try. I just don’t think this is a really change election. It’s shaking out to be an anti-Trump election more than an anti-republican election, so I think, given all the gerrymandering, the republicans will lose seats, but hang on to their majority. And what they lose in the house and senate they’ll regain easily at the midterms.
Brachiator
Jeez. Of course this thing is nothing. But that’s not the point. Lynch herself has had to address this issue. I absolutely respect her integrity, and her recognition of the political need to address this issue.
Also, I have said it before and say it again. Yeah, Bill Clinton has enemies. But he has often given them the stick that they then use to beat him over the head. And this time he has also pulled Hillary into his bullshit.
Lastly, the world is not just divided into those who hate the Clintons and those who love them. Even silly shit like this can nudge people one way or another.
And no, this crap is not the end of the world, but it is a tiresome distraction, and it takes media attention away from more good Trump bashing.
Redshift
@Tom Q:
And if I hadn’t lived through a couple of decades where most Democrats were in a permanent defensive crouch, convinced that if they could figure out just the right way word things, Republicans wouldn’t be able to attack them. Seriously, when I first got seriously involved in politics in ’03/’04, it was common even for liberal bloggers to respond to wingnut outrage over a half-sentence in the middle of some speech with “oh, of only he had said…” instead of recognizing the obvious bullshit, and knowing that if it wasn’t that, it would be something else, and if there wasn’t something else, they would just make something up.
“Optics” are bullshit, just a media chew toy. In a week, max, it will be forgotten by all but the wingnuts, having affected nothing. There is nothing in our legal system that says impartiality means all justice officials must have no contact with anyone associated with a person under investigation. The very idea is ridiculous, as is the idea that either of them “should have known better.”
les
@Anya:
Christ, pay attention. She regrets the shitstorm ginned up by idiots, not the meeting. Guess what–you’re not helping.
Gravenstone
Haven’t read the comments yet, but did you by chance see the extended thread of pants pissing and knicker twisting that covered this topic last evening? Because by gawd – THE GRAVEN IMAGE OF PROPRIETY MUST BE PROTECTED!!1! Fucking wankers.
Cermet
@Omnes Omnibus: Look in a mirror (I know, might be very scary) but what Bill did was stupid. As for Lynn, her training and position required that she not do that. Any lawyer would tell you that. Again, maybe avoid a mirror ….
Applejinx
@dogwood: Follow the money. It’s why the Democrats have not fallen significantly short of what Sanders wanted as a platform: they saw the amount of money Sanders raised. That’s hard evidence of a constituency that ought to belong to the Democrats when it comes down to ‘Democrats Vs. Republicans’ as the system mandates it must do.
Clinton’s at 70 million dollars for her campaign. Trump?
XD
Wave election. Let us go forth and scorch the earth clean of 80s, 90s and Republican bullshit. I want to see the House AND the Senate flipped. And I want Clinton to be thanking the hippies for giving her a chance despite everything the wingnuts and the press could do to her, which is considerable.
burnspbesq
@O. Felix Culpa:
Except that it’s more than that for both Clinton and Lynch. For lawyers, avoiding the appearance of impropriety is a professional obligation.
aimai
@Aleta: Integrity is utterly wasted on the American People. Really it is. If you know you have integrity you ought to fight to have your integrity respected, not flinch every time some mouth breather attacks you for a faked up appearance of impropriety. Because they are always going to be attacking you. This is really Josh Marshall’s “Bitch Slap Theory of Politics.” The Republicans are always going to be shrieking that the Democrats did something wrong. If you flinch back and don’t defend yourself you lose points with the public. The public thinks “even AG Lynch agrees there was something wrong with what she did” not “how full of integrity is AG Lynch!”
Mnemosyne
@Anya:
I’m disputing the assumption that bringing your spouse to publicly meet a former President of the United States creates any kind of appearance of impropriety. This isn’t Scalia going on a fully-paid hunting trip with one of the defendants in a case being heard by his court.
There’s a reason the MSM kept “forgetting” to mention that AG Lynch’s husband was at the meeting, and it was so they could create an appearance of impropriety that didn’t actually exist thanks to his presence.
Cermet
@les: No help? Because I point out the obvious? People, get a grip. The right wing does not need help attacking Hillary and Bill does not need to add fuel to their fire. Do I think Lynn did anything wrong? No; however, this wasn’t smart and no amount of crying and denying will change that. Lynn herself agree’s it was a mistake. Stop arguing with her own statements – I merely pointed out the obvious.
catclub
@Origuy: Voldemort. Pol Pot. General Boykin
burnspbesq
@John D:
Clinton’s lead has shrunk all the way to 394,000. Zounds!
ETA: clinton’s lead is now more than the remaining number of unprocessed ballots. So, officially,
FUCK YOU BERNIE, YOU LOST.
les
@Anya:
You keep missing the point. They don’t need ammunition. No behavior/non-behavior will avoid this shit. He stays in his plane, they’d go to “see, that’s why all the affairs, the Hildebeast has poor Bill whipped, he can’t even talk to friends.” 6 years of federal special prosecutor investigations, benghazi committees, efucking mails, serviers, w keys, staff relations, all come to nothing. They’ve been screaming at/about Clintons for 25 years, they’re not stopping now. Every time a Dem meeps “oh dear i wish he/she wouldn’t do that” they win a bit.
Mnemosyne
@John D:
Yes, but the counties that voted for Bernie are so much bigger than the ones that voted for Clinton, so obviously there was voter fraud!
I. Just. Can’t. Even.
Baud
Man, I wish Obama hadn’t given that grant to Solyndra. #owngoal
John D
@burnspbesq: Yeah, Sanders can still win 110% of the remaining outstanding vote and pull even!
Cermet
@Mnemosyne: Got me there – correct; Lynch.(Thanks, actually.)
Keith G
@Mnemosyne:
What I typed up there somewhere:
I have a great deal of confidence that my assumption that no impropriety transpired at the private meeting is correct. But one should not have to rely on assumptions. Avoid the private meeting until the investigation is finished. I felt the same way when Scalia and Cheney when hunting. Maybe Scalia could do that and still remain neutral writing decisions, but it was wrong to make us have to guess at that – especially at that level of power.
Mnemosyne
@Cermet:
WILL YOU PLEASE STOP GETTING HER NAME WRONG?!?!
Loretta Lynn is a country/western singer. Loretta Lynch is the Attorney General of the United States.
FFS.
John D
@Mnemosyne: Except looking at the map, nope. She wins on square mileage too.
It’s like the Funny or Die sketch come to life. I’m so over the Sanders campaign at this point.
Emma
There is one thing in which Brexit and the US Elections have in common: the Labour party and the Democratic party had the opportunity to take apart the conservatives. Instead, we are letting ourselves be sidetracked by the ratfvckers.
Ain’t liberal politics grand!
aimai
I think this bears repeating:
Because its related to what Redshift was arguing upthread at 288.
The Republican party is going to try to hamstring not just the Clinton race for the Presidency but the Presidency itself. They tried to do it to Clinton the first time around, and they tried to do it to Obama the second time around. One of the things they are going to try to do is make it toxic and terrifying for anyone to serve in a Clinton administration, or any Democratic administration, by investigating every single person and event that happens. Perfectly ordinary social events are going to be turned into witch hunts. And where nothing happens? Much is going to be made up. We have to be prepared for it and we have to fight back against it. Because this is going to be their method. God forbid that Democrats in power have ordinary friendships, or work late, or eat dinner together, or do anything else ordinary. The Republicans are going to act like the Democrats need to govern like a proxy groom having sex through a sheet–cautiously and at a distance and without any joy or sociality. But we don’t. Bill Clinton didn’t do anything wrong and we need to stop acting like a cowering dog and letting the Republicans get away with poisoning the lives of our former President and other administration officials.
aimai
@Baud: Precisely!
Baud
Did Obama really have to out his feet up on the Oval Office desk? #avoidable
Brachiator
Bullshit. Clinton keeps his ass on the plane and only the dedicated Clinton haters and conspiracy corners would give this shit any attention.
Instead, I am hearing about this crap on CBS radio and reading about how bad this looks in the Guardian.
Clinton keeps his ass on his plane and the Clinton haters write” indictment must be imminent, because Lynch does not want to face Clinton.”Then, nothing happens and life goes on.
Clinton can’t keep his ass on his own muthafvcking plane and we have to hear about his self inflicted paper cut all goddam holiday weekend.
Dopes.
Trollhattan
@Mnemosyne: And with a scant few exceptions they’re all red-as-a-firecracker counties. Not hard to connect the dots there.
Miss Bianca
@Felonius Monk: #followthecheese
les
@Anya:
fuck me to tears. News flash: Loretta Lynch is not investigating anything. Loretta Lynch is not conducting, directing, supervising or commenting on the investigation. Loretta Lynch has said multiple times she’s not going to interfere with the investigation and will not challenge its outcome.
Of course right wing nut job conspiracy theorists will never believe any of it. And your position appears to be, well, gee, Bill made it look like they’re right???? Conspiracy theorists are always right, every act/non act fits in.
D58826
@Keith G: No they are not. The Goopers will gin up a controversy no matter what the Clintons do or don’t do. My point was that it is impossible for Bill to stop giving the GOP ammunition. His continued presence on this earth is all of the ammunition they need. If they can gin up outrage over a fist bump or a cup of coffee held in the wrong hand or a flag lapel pin, they will find SOMETHING to shriek about.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne:
And THAT was because the media likes to show that it takes on Both Sides, and after having been rough on Trump for a while they want to take the opportunity to demonstrate that they calls ’em like they sees ’em. Also because the media hates the Clintons and gets sooooo boooooored to the point where they crave new stories to tell.
Doug R
@Matt McIrvin: I think the Senate is flipping and the House is probably flipping too. Hillary is flattening Trump in battleground states already. Obama is at historic polling levels and has not really begun to campaign. Plus, if Bernie gets his head out of his ass and does what’s right…
Baud
@Doug R: two out of three ain’t bad.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
Right — when Scalia and Cheney went on private hunting trips with people who had cases in front of the Supreme Court, not when they publicly met with that person and their spouse in a 30 minute chat.
Really, you don’t see any difference between a private weeklong all-expenses-paid hunting trip and a 30 minute meeting in passing with someone you’ve known for 20 years and their spouse? It’s like you’re looking at an elephant and a mouse side-by-side and saying, Well, they’re both mammals, so they’re clearly identical.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
Sanders won all the big empty spaces that haven’t voted Democratic since FDR.
D58826
@aimai: Or when Obama talks to the AG or thehead of the FBI?
Brachiator
@Baud:
Yes. Because that’s what presidents do.
SATSQ
aimai
@Mnemosyne: This a thousand times.
Trollhattan
@Baud:
ZOMG!
The really bad thing about Obama’s pic is the whitey tape is In The Desk!
Omnes Omnibus
@Cermet: It’s Lynch and I am a lawyer.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
My kids call him “Joe Fucking Biden” meant with nothing but love and respect. They got to meet him in NH in 2012 and it was a total brolovefest. They even told him they call him JFB and he liked it.
Mnemosyne
@John D:
If I’m lucky, this person has now blocked me on Facebook. Their comeback was that their CA district had voted for Bernie, and mine was essentially, “And my larger district with more voters in it voted for Hillary. She got more votes.”
FlipYrWhig
@Doug R: IMHO Sanders wants to be able to say that Hillary Clinton changed her mind about something significant to match his view, and that she didn’t want to do it but only did because he pushed her to do it, because he really meant it and said so forcefully. If she says something like “Bernie Sanders opened my eyes on [$ISSUE], and he was very persuasive,” he’ll stop acting like such a prat. I’m not sure what it’ll be, or if it’ll happen, but that’s what I think he’s waiting for.
Miss Bianca
@Cermet: It’s LYNCH, not LYNN. Loretta LYNCH. Not even the right-wing press could gin up any outrage over Bill Clinton going over and shooting the shit with LORETTA LYNN, ffs. If you’re going to gallop yourself and the rest of us to death chasing down this VERY VERY GRAVE MATTER of impropriety, can you at least make the effort to get the AG’s name right? Jesus Chicken-Fried Christ.
@Omnes Omnibus: Or, you know, what you said. More nicely and shit.
aimai
@D58826: Right—people seem incredibly gullible about how long the imaginary state of crisis is going to be. Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton were investigated and attacked for 8 solid years in the White House. EIGHT YEARS–including a scathing examination of the WHITE HOUSE CHRISTMAS CARD LIST. Just how long is Bill Clinton supposed to hide out and not talk to anyone, ever, anywhere for fear that the right wing will accuse him of some impropriety? When you grasp that they were investigated for their CHRISTMAS CARD LIST and that everyone who knew them personally was investigated and deposed and forced to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees you realize that just getting up in the morning and being willing to enter the fray again for the sake of this country is a GOD DAMNED MIRACLE OF COURAGE.
If we let the right wing dictate who can talk to Bill Clinton, when, and where we are going to be in for a looong and useless 8 years. We have to push back hard, now. If people haven’t done anythign criminal god damn it why do we let right wing media push us to pretend that they have?
les
@Anya:
Your last statement is the issue. I say to you, Just. Don’t Help! the right wing noise machine. Bill knows her, likes her, knows her husband and kids. He appointed her to an important position that helped lead her to being AG. It is perfectly natural, comfortable and appropriate that he talk to her in the circumstances. When you go “oh but the optics” you’re just supporting the bullshit machine, agreeing that it looks like there’s something wrong. How about this response: Two old friends met and talked? Yawn. Ain’t it great how he remembers old friends and allies?
bupalos
@Amir Khalid: They eat the air, promise crammed.
Mnemosyne
@burnspbesq:
As I said, I think Lynch brought her husband with her and had the meeting in public specifically to avoid that appearance. I’m not sure what else she could have done.
Gelfling545
@Mnemosyne: on the airport Tarmac where, obviously, tons of people could see them. If they were trying to be stealthy, this is pitiful. I don’t think they were,though. Perhaps the Clintons should never speak to anyone until the election. Maybe after too,since they could be saying words or something. Jaysus.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
To be fair, Loretta Lynn wrote a really cool song about how awesome the birth control pill was, so she’s a pretty cool lady. But not a lawyer.
ETA: Found it!
Omnes Omnibus
You kids have fun. I am off for the holiday weekend.
D58826
@Redshift:
I remember when Clinton apologized for Monica the media spent a week, mostly at gooper urging, analyzing whither he had used to right combination of ‘I’m sorry’ words. And ‘the definition of is is’ has become a cliche even though his answer to the grand jury was much longer and the ‘definition of is is’ made sense in context.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig:
“Clinton and Lynch on the tarmac, when the planes were held.”
FlipYrWhig
Shorter this whole stupid story: “I saw
Principal SkinnerPres. Clinton andMs. KrabappleAG Lynchinon theclosettarmac makingbabiesappearances of impropriety and I saw one of thebabiesappearances of impropriety and one of thebabiesappearances of impropriety looked at me.”Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
I beg your pardon,
I met you in the White House Rose Garden
ETA: Yes, that was Lynn Anderson, not Loretta Lynn, but still…
D58826
@Mnemosyne: If Andrea Mitchell’s reporting is correct, Lynch might not have even know Clinton was in Phoenix. He found out that she was flying in from the secret service detail and just invited himself over. Maybe if he had taken a measuring cup he could have claimed he was asking to borrow a cup of sugar.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Whatever will we do absent your Midwestern reasonableness and equanimity?
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: I’m pretty sure The Pill was written by Matt McGinn, a Scottish folk singer and that the song was originally sung by Pete Seeger in the States. (But I’m really only trying to TBOGG this thread).
Trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Say soothing words to the Saab on you way outta town (presuming out is the way you’re headed).
Gelfling545
@MattF: I’ve also just started that book & I fail to see the difference. Case Nightmare Trump?
Trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Goddamnit, for the last time it’s Marshawn, not Loretta. Sheesh.
les
@burnspbesq:
Jesus, Burns, I expect better from you. In what conceivable sense is Bill Clinton a “lawyer” in this context? Or Lynch, for that matter? There’s no legal controversy; there’s no criminal investigation. Lynch is not running, supervising, directing or commenting on the investigation that is running, which is not specifically about Hillary’s “guilt or innocence” in any criminal matter. What fucking impropriety? If you think Bill is lobbying Lynch to force the FBI to go away, neither is acting as a lawyer. FFS.
Randy P
@John Cole:
Lol, hardly. The day after inauguration, the House will name a special prosecutor who will investigate the plane meeting, the email server, every rock already turned over in the 473 Benghazi hearings and the Whitewater hearings, and finally hit pay dirt when they find an unpaid parking ticket from 1967 in Hillary’s basement. They will then move for impeachment.
Mnemosyne
@patroclus:
Wikipedia says that the McGinn/Seeger song has similar themes, but is not related. Ha! ;-)
Cat48
I don’t think the media wants to talk about the AG/Bill anymore. Their covering a terrorist and hostage situation in,Bangledash? They think it may be Isis, so whatever!
Ramadan will be over soon–one more week.
patroclus
@burnspbesq: Bill was disbarred – he’s not a lawyer anymore.
les
@Cermet:
Absolutely no help. What have you suggested that would “help,” for any value of help that avoids a right wing freakout about something. Because if not this, it’ll be some other nothingburger. And while it’s obvious to you, the discussion here seems to indicate you don’t accurately represent everyone. Your definition of obvious may need tweaking.
Schlemazel Khan
Anyone noted that today is the 100th anniversary of the battle of the Somme? A hundred years ago today The English tried to break through German lines near the Somme. they suffered 57,000 casualties in a single day.
debit
@FlipYrWhig: Sex Cauldron? I thought they closed that place down.
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: You actually looked it up??!! Hmmm – I smell a controversial plagiarism suit!
Brachiator
@D58826:
I remember when Clinton thought he had that shit covered and could get away with a brazen lie.
The impeachment was bullshit and I totally understand why anyone would lie about a private affair with a consenting adult, but we also saw Slick Willie in action.
les
@Keith G:
So, by this argument, Hilary should not campaign with Obama–who, by the way, runs the Justice Department, it’s in the executive branch–until the investigation is finished?
Peter
@srv: I can’t wait for the report to come out, so this nothingburger issue can finally go away.
Fair Economist
@dogwood:
I honestly think that if Hillary goes after the Republican Congress for their NUMEROUS outrageous policy choices, the House will flip. In particular, Trump’s on record as opposing the SS and Medicare butchery the House Republicans have called for, and if she can wedge Trump away from the Republican Congress the whole Republican party will get wiped out.
Brachiator
@Schlemazel Khan:
Some good observations about the battle on BBC news.
burnspbesq
@les:
He’s a member of the bar, dumbfuck.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Pierce gives us some historical perspective
It’s the GIF that really puts things in perspective. Or should. If Adam Sandler or the Farrelly Bros had put her in a political satire, people would’ve said it was too much.
eric
@burnspbesq: i am not sure Clinton is a lawyer anymore ;)
J R in WV
@Anya:
No one gives the right wing nut jobs any ammunition… they generate it in their pockets, pull it out, and fling it out of the cage.
There is nothing anyone connected to the Clintons can do to avoid winding up the RWNJ noise machine. Nothing. It is self-propelled and unaimed.
And as other have said, trying to do so puts one into a cage of the RWNJ’s making, ruining one’s life, without any gain whatsoever.
D58826
@Brachiator: Not the first person or politican to lie about sex or almost anything else.
But here is the GOP in action and it isn’t limited to the Clintons. According to Mccain Obama is responsible for the mess in Afganistan and the terror is attack at the airport in Turkey this week. It’s bad enough to say this to a domestic reporeter but it was an interview with a reporter from Pakistan
WASHINGTON — A couple of weeks after blaming the Orlando massacre on President Barack Obama, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) let fly again, telling a Pakistan television station in an interview posted online Friday that the U.S. is to blame for the deteriorating state of Afghanistan.
McCain, apparently interviewed in his office this week ahead of a July 4 trip to Pakistan, was asked by interviewer Moeed Pirzada whether the current president of Afghanistan, Ashraf Ghani, is too technocratic and isolated to deal with the resurgent Taliban and other threats in his country.
“Do you think Taliban are the only issue or is something else needed in Afghanistan?” Pirzada asked.
“I believe that I have to be very frank,” McCain said, explaining that he believed Ghani, who took office in 2014, was a vast improvement on his predecessor, Hamid Karzai.
“I don’t blame Ashraf Ghani. I blame the United States of America for not consolidating the gains that we made,” McCain said. “And this president has this idea for the last eight years that if we pull out of conflicts, those conflicts end.”
Obama did run on a platform of ending the military conflicts begun under President George W. Bush, and achieved his goal — at least temporarily — in Iraq. There are now U.S. troops in that country assisting efforts to contain the Islamic State militant group.
Obama announced last fall that he would keep thousands of U.S. troops in Afghanistan until at least 2017.
The interviewer’s question was prompted at least in part by the latest issue of The New Yorker, which includes a long look at Ghani and his tendency to hole up in his headquarters with the bulk of his staff, rather than appearing in public. The suggestion from Pirzada was that perhaps the Afghan leader shares some blame for the failings in his nation.
McCain, however, went all in against Obama, saying the White House bears responsibility not only for Afghanistan’s troubles but for the recent airport attack in Turkey as well.
“Let me give you an example of what just happened. In Istanbul, the rise of terrorism and a base for terrorism in a place called Raka [Syria, where the Islamic State is based], and that is now, that ISIS group is now establishing a beachhead. Guess where? Afghanistan,” McCain said. “We see abject failure of American policy and no strategy. I don’t blame Pakistan for that. I don’t blame Ashraf Ghani for that. I blame this president of the United States, who is a failed leader.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mccain-blames-america-for-afghanistan_us_5776b35ee4b0a629c1a9e811?section=
les
@J R in WV:
For certain…anatomical…values of “pocket.”
dogwood
@Fair Economist:
Disagree. The only slim chance we have of flipping the House is tying every republican to Donald Trump. He is toxic. Trying to separate Trump from republicans would be a fools game.
ETA: This is why democrats struggle. They truly believe that voters are policy wonks. They aren’t. In the UK the stay side campaigned on facts and reason. The leavers campaigned on lies and emotion. We all know how that turned out.
Aleta
@aimai: I see what you mean. I haven’t seen cable or read much of the press except the basic story. The rw dominance on the airwaves and the tepid ‘neutral’ responses must be like toxic shock waves.
patroclus
@burnspbesq: I don’t think that disbarred individuals remain members of the bar.
For you lawyers, I’m interested in what your opinions are on whether the U.K. can give Article 50 notice pursuant to the Lisbon Treaty on the basis of the Royal Prerogative or whether an Act of Parliament is required because full repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act takes a statutory authorization. This is currently THE hot issue amongst U.K. constitutional lawyers.
jl
@les: No. But then, a campaign appearance is not a private meeting, unless you are a die-hard Hillary hater, in which case one would claim they are close. But Lynch campaigning with Hillary would be problematic.
I don’t see a complicated issue here.
Even though the meeting was ill-advised, the coverage and flap are way way out of proportion, and I suspect the right wing noise machine has a big role in it.
On the other hand, regarding Bill Clinton, just because people are out to get him and will manufacture scandals and problems out of nothing for PR purposes, he should still exercise good judgment. And if the news stories are true, he barged onto Lynch’s plane uninvited and unannounced, which I don’t think showed good judgment. If that is true, Lynch really had no choice about a private meeting of some kind, no matter how brief, occurring. So I figure whatever she says is politic CYA in the context of bad faith BS scandal mongering by the usual suspects.
Brachiator
@patroclus:
In April [2001], Mr Clinton’s Arkansas law licence was suspended for five years and he was given a $25,000 fine. He had agreed to that disbarment as a form of plea bargain in January, on the day before he left office.
He was officially disbarred without comment from practicing before the US Supreme Court in October 2001.
He could, if he wanted, petition the Court to have his license restored. He might have to take the bar exam again, I suppose.
liberal
@Doug R:
I fail to see how the data show that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
none so blind, et cetera, et cetera….
Mnemosyne
@dogwood:
Works for me. Let’s get this party started.
patroclus
@Brachiator: He’s probably so Machiavellian that he deliberately hasn’t petitioned for re-instatement just so he could meet with Loretta Lynch on the tarmac the other day thus avoiding his former professional responsibility requirements on a mere technicality.:-) I wouldn’t put it past him…
Lurkypants
@Brachiator:
Actually, what he said was that he never had “sexual relations” with that woman. Which was a defined term in the Paula Jones suit, and did not include anything he actually did with Monica. So, legally, he was right. Politically, not so much.
D58826
@jl:
But do we know what they are saying to each other back on the campaign bus? Besides why does it take a meeting at an airport to arrange to kill the indictment. Hillary may be a klutz when it comes to technology but I’m sure Bill knows how to dial a phone.
les
@jl:
Sorry, but in what possible sense was this meeting “private?” There’s a lot more chance for a private chat at a campaign rally than here. Does anyone think that when the investigation is over and Hillary is not indicted, censured, impeached and deported that there would be no right wing outrage if this meeting had not happened? Do you really think this was anything but an opportunity to fling shit, of which there will never be a dearth? Christ on a $3 coin, treating this like it looks like it means anything is just feeding the beast.
Brachiator
@aimai:
Well, Paul Ryan did suggest that Hillary wear a burkha if she is elected, but only because Trump told him that she is a Goldwater Muslim.
Felonius Monk
Apparently, Mike Pence (America’s Stupidest Governator) is being vetted by Trump for VP.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne: In either case, appearance matters.
In this era, a significant source of energy in our society is the belief that our political leadership is too elitist and too self-concerned to do much more than throw some crumbs at the ‘proles’. That notion, only partially wrong, has helped to fuel some unfortunate political alignments and partnerships.
Clearly it is not a problem that Bill Clinton has friends in the Obama Administration. No reasonable person is saying that it is a scandal.
The problem is the vision of a possible attempt (an eleitists face-to-face) to influence the conduct of the Justice Department.
Now we know that Bill is amazingly ethical and his word is his bond, so we can safely assume that, as always, he was on his best behavior. I am sure that he had no thoughts of influencing that woman.
And I also trust Ms Lynch’s intentions (rather more completely than Bill’s).
But I am not the audience that matters. The meeting should not have taken place. That the spouse of a person under investigation can schmooze with the head the the department carrying out that investigation (with private jets as a back drop) does not send a good message to the proles.
Why spend tens of millions of $$$$ trying to win their votes only to take a crap on their living room floor?
patroclus
@Lurkypants: Exactly! I always correct my Clinton-hating friends with precisely that correction just to show how Machivellian (Bill) Clinton really is/was.
liberal
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yawn.
D58826
OT but really really good news – Nancy Grace is giving up her TV show in the fall.
J R in WV
@Anya:
There is no appearance of any conflict or ethics issues here whatsoever. Allowing the Republicans to pretend that there is is sad, just so sad.
These are people who have known each other for 20 years or so. One is allowed to walk over to the other to say hi, how are the kids, look at these pictures of our new grand-baby!!
Brachiator
@patroclus:
You know, I don’t think that Clinton is that smart, but his enemies are dumb enough to actually think that this was a plausible explanation for Bill’s actions.
jl
@D58826: @les: Did either of you bother to read to the end of my comment?
But rave on, if you want.
D58826
@Lurkypants: And I’ll bet until Monica came along if you stopped and asked people on the street about ‘having sex’ they would have said the good old missionary position. If you asked about oral sex they probably would have run down the street screaming pervert./
bmoak
Can’t wait for the scandal when Hillary has that campaign appearance with Obama in North Carolina. After all, she is under investigation and he controls the federal law enforcement apparatus. It would be irresponsible not to speculate!
Fair Economist
@patroclus:
IANAL, but I think the answer is Parliament is required and legal niceties are irrelevant. The reason that if the government files Article 50 notice by prerogative, there WILL be a lawsuit. And the lawsuit will be heard by judges, who as elites are hostile to Brexit, and will rule that Parliamentary assent is required.
redshirt
What’s this about Loretta Lynn now?
Brachiator
@Lurkypants:
It fails the common sense test.
This reminds me. That Secret Service agent flinging shit is going to be interviewed on one of the local talk radio stations today. He’s got pointless salacious stories about having to clean up for all the sexual relations that Bill was not, legally speaking, having. And all followed up with a round of gratuitous Hillary bashing.
Trollhattan
@redshirt:
That’s her stage name, she was born Sissy Spacek.
Brachiator
@redshirt:
She will be featured in a Marvel Universe movie, The X Lynn.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
As I understand it, creating an appearance of impropriety requires a situation where an impropriety could plausibly have happened. What public conversation occurring in the presence of a non-politician, non-lawyer spouse do you picture being able to create that influence?
One-on-one conversation in the privacy of a hunting blind, sure. But this is getting into Taliban levels of don’t even be in the same room as an opposite gender person lest you create an appearance of impropriety.
Iowa Old Lady
@Lurkypants: I remember listening to my car radio when Bill Clinton gave that press conference or whatever it was where he solemnly said, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” I burst out laughing. It was just such a Clinton era sentence. I wouldn’t want to be married to the horndog, but none of that ever made me think he was a bad president.
Trollhattan
@D58826:
Did they run out of dead and/or missing blondes? Did not get that memo.
She can still ruin a lot of lives by getting on an HOA board.
les
@jl:
Yes, jl, I read the whole thing. I was going to ignore the various alarmisms, stupidities and conformities to the nut job point of view, but if you insist:
The meeting was “ill advised” only if you accept the nut job interpretation.
You say Bill “should have exercised good judgement,” which in English I read to suggest he exercised bad judgement. I disagree, I imagine he disagrees, and his track record beats what I know of yours.
The news reports (Infowar, Fox?) say he “barged onto” Lynch’s plane, so she had no choice about this “private” meeting, because of course she would have refused to speak with the former president and friend if she’d had the chance.
In other words, despite your protestations that it’s all too blown up, you agree there’s some there, there.
I don’t. K?
redshirt
@Brachiator: Lies! X-Men are the property of Fox and not part of the MCU.
randy khan
@les:
The right answer for Bill Clinton is that he hasn’t been a member of any bar since at least the end of his Presidency, so he’s not bound by legal ethics requirements. (There was a settlement of a complaint against him in which he agreed to give up his license.)
As for Lynch, “appearance of impropriety” does not mean that some crazy person somewhere might think it was improper, but that a normal judge would think it was. This was nowhere near that.
In a strange way, her specific statement that she’s going to let the career professionals decide actually is helpful, since it will make it harder for the press to take claims that she put a finger on the scales of justice seriously.
aimai
@FlipYrWhig: Perfection!
Seth Owen
@Tom Q: Jesus, another CT about “the press.”
No such thing.
Do you think all of the thousand newspapers, hundreds of tv and radio stations, cable networks and online sites get secret marching orders every night? There is some secret cabal pulling strings?
There is a certain amount of group think caused by economic considerations and the ideological tendencies of the sort of people who become journalists in the first place, but exceptions abound. The notion that “The Press” is collectively nursing a grudge from SIX election cycles ago is tinfoil hat territory.
D58826
Now we are getting twitter talk about the Clinton’s ‘casual attitude about conflict of interest’ Yep the guy is right. Bill wasn’t burned at the stake and Hillary will not be drawn and quartered over their ‘casual disregard of conflict of interest’.
No wonder they don’t talk to the press. If Hillary just said Hello somebody would complain about the use of ‘h*ll” in the greeting
patroclus
@Fair Economist: Well, that’s my position because referendums, unless given further legal weight by their authorizing statute (which last fall’s EU Referendum Act did NOT contain), are non-binding under the U.K. unwritten Constitution. And the Lisbon Treaty’s Article 50 contains the phrase that any purported exit must be done in accordance with the member State’s constitutional law. Consequently, any action taken by Government cannot repeal the European Communities Act absent authorization by Parliament. Which means either a statute authorizing the Government to initiate an Article 50 Notice or a full-blown repeal of the ECA by Parliament, either of which pre-supposes a statute enacted by Parliament, including both the Commons and the Lords. But, like here in the U.S., U.K. courts have traditionally avoided applying justiciability to actions taken by the Government based on the Royal Prerogative in matters of “international affairs.” Would the judges try avoiding getting involved in a “political” matter? Or would they be constitutional sticklers and apply the usually understood “Queen in Parliament” rule?
What’s interesting is that none of the U.K. political leaders have even addressed this issue and seem to be just assuming that the PM can initiate Article 50 notice on their own on the basis of the Prerogative. I smell a legal fight if the new PM tries to do it without Parliament. And if they do go through Parliament, I think that actual implementation of Brexit is not particularly likely notwithstanding the opinions expressed by the electorate in the referendum.
It’s a mess.
aimai
@Brachiator: They aren’t just pointless and salacious, of course, they are out and out lies because he wasn’t in a position to know anything about the parts of the White House he wasn’t assigned to. But that won’t stop the press from treating them as though they are true.
Soylent Green
@aimai:I’m still steamed about the missing W’s on the White House keyboards.
Brachiator
@D58826:
What white bread street do you live on? Beaver Cleaver Avenue?
Actually, I recall some pearl clutchers claiming that America’s innocent yoots did not know what oral sex was until Bill Clinton sullied the holiness of the Oval Office by getting bl0w j0bs there.
And instead of the traditional talk about the birds and the bees, parents now had to field questions about safe words and @nal beads.
And so this is how Bill Clinton singlehandedly destroyed America. Because he had a cigar in his other hand.
Fair Economist
@Seth Owen:
We’re talking about people who do indeed bring up thoroughly debunked “scandals” from the Clinton administration, so, yes, 6 cycles ago. They do indeed live in tinfoil hat territory. In its capital, I think.
les
@Soylent Green:
I was promised one of those for a..significant enough…campaign contribution, so they’re being put to good use.
D58826
@Seth Owen:
I’m not sure the press, especially the younger members, are nursing a grudge but they came of age in which the term ‘scandal’ was so often attached to the Clinton name that it seems like it is their first name. News stories refer to the scandal plagued Hillary campaign. It allows the rightwing to use the phrase w/o fear of fact checking because there are no specifics just this vague cloud of suspicion. For the media it’s an easy way to say both sides do it w/o actually providing any details. The result is 55% of the public thinks Hillary is a crook and guilty of ‘something’ even if they don’t know what that ‘something’ is. It helped Bernie with his the election is rigged becasue we all know that the Clintons are guilty of ‘something’
Felonius Monk
@redshirt:
Coal miner’s daughter? Born in Butcher Holler?
D58826
@Brachiator: yea that’s right every one just sat around the kitchen table talking about oral sex. I’m sure people knew about it but wasn’t something that wanted to see front and center on their tv.
Fair Economist
@patroclus:
Exactly. If the Prime Minister (or maybe even Foreign Minister) had gotten up on the wrong side of the bed, or was in a snit with Merkel, could he have just irrevocably taken the UK out of the EU? Of course not, but if he could have done it without Parliamentary assent, then he actually could have. Hence, Parliamentary assent is required.
Just on general principles, it seems really obvious to me the Parliamentary assent is needed.
nutella
@Anya:
Are you kidding? There were zillions of scandals: Feet on desk, wrong color suit, jeans not stylish enough, no flag pin, Michelle forcing vegetables down the throats of innocent white children, Rev Wright being uppity, the whitey tape, daughter got into Harvard obviously with affirmative action and we all know that’s scandalous, Michelle’s vacations were done wrong, Michelle’s business trips were done wrong, and a million more I’ve forgotten.
Yes, it’s a fine thing that the Obamas haven’t had anything WE would call a scandal but they had tons of scandals that the press and Republicans called scandals.
So yeah, there have been plenty of Obama scandals. All of them were bogus but why would a Republican believe that? Where there’s smoke there’s fire, you know.
patroclus
@Fair Economist: We agree. But try telling that to Gove or May or (especially) Corbyn. I watched PMQT and the subsequent debate/questions to Cameron about the EU Council meeting on C-SPAN and every single one of them (other than the SNP and the one Green MP) just assumed that Brexit was a done deal and that the new PM could just initiate notice on their own whenever they decided to do it. I was, needless to say, nonplussed, especially given the raging debate amongst the QC’s which I’ve been reading. Some politicians need to talk to the lawyers at some point, in my view.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne:
That is a very strict, some might say tortured, definition – not unlike a recent SCOTUS joint.
I am an investor in Team Hillary. I worry that even with the dwindling (as of now) Trump support, there are still places in fly-over country where Hillary will under perform. Your usage, shown above, may be sufficient to some, but as one who daily is on the prowl for HRC converts, I know that events like this fit into a paradigm that I am trying to defeat – a paradigm that should not be reinforced since it is already so present in the minds of would-be voters.
J R in WV
@Anya:
You slide right by the reality of these situations. Fat Tony and Silent Clarence both have had very real conflicts of interest. Fat Tony doesn’t matter, he’s taking the long dirt nap. Clarence should be offered a chance to retire with scant honor, say, 48 hours, and then impeached for failing to disclose his wife’s conflicts with the cases he has heard.
In the very imperfect world he have, that will never happen, as even some Democratic office holders would hesitate, even though it is obvious when these conflicts occur.
But for former President Clinton to visit briefly with someone he has known for many years as they pass by coincidence in their travel is as natural as waving to your cousin outside the barber shop. A false claim of an appearance of conflict in pausing to say hello is not the same as an actual conflict with money changing hands, not at all. Which is what happened with Scalia and Thomas. Money changed hands, and then, later, they ruled in favor of the source of the funds.
I don’t understand your refusal to see the difference between a smoke machine and an arsonist.
Brachiator
@aimai:
Actually the press has already debunked much of this stuff already, and have even interviewed other Secret Service agents who have pointed out errors and things that this guy could not possibly know about.
But the point is to get the guy onto friendly right leaning radio stations so that he can savage the Clintons, and especially to show that Hillary is a bad person who hates the Average Joe. Why, she thought she was a queen and told her Secret Service detail that they could not look her in the eye, or speak unless spoken to. Why, compared to Hillary, Cersei Bannister is Mother Teresa.
It’s all just tiresome fodder for lazy Clinton haters. Also, the people who eat this stuff up never look for denial or corroboration.
aimai
@nutella: Right. I’m pretty sure that the Special Counsel or Prosecutor law which enabled Kenneth Starr to spend millions investigating everyone in the Clinton White House (and beyond) had expired and not been reauthorized. Susan Mcdougal served 18 months in jail for failing to answer bogus questions in the bogus invetigation into the Whitewater land deal in which the Clintons LOST MONEY. If the Obama team had been put under that kind of vicious pressure–which, of course, didn’t actually turn up any crime–and 44 million dollars had been spent investigating them who knows what harm would have been done to them. It was bad enough as it is. Shirley Sherrod got the Republican treatment and lost her job because the Obama White House was so panicky that the Republicans were going to do to them what they had done to the Clintons.
aimai
@J R in WV: Hey! I think I just said that upthread!
catclub
@Brachiator:
1. So a sanction that has no actual penalty for him.
2. Sounds like SC assholes wanted to pile on.
J R in WV
@Cermet:
Carmut (sic), if you can’t be bothered to learn the actual real name of the Attorney General of the US, you should stop embarrassing yourself in public. Now stop making a public ass of yourself, as your opinions are worse then your knowledge of spelling the AG’s name.
Geez!!
les
@nutella:
Don’t forget: he went on the teevee machine to brainwash the chilluns into studying and succeeding. No scandal? Parents kept their children home from school in my lovely Kansas district over that.
Brachiator
@nutella:
These were not scandals. This was Obama committing the sin of presidenting while black, and uppity Michelle having the nerve to tell real American white people how to feed their kids.
D58826
@Brachiator: @Keith G: Both of you are making the same point about why this is important. Whither the visit was smart, stupid, or whatever, it plays into the long standing the Clintons are corrupt meme. Sure the MSM has debunked most of what the secret service agent has said but Faux news forced them to discuss it so it bleds over into the non-wing nut news coverage. And at some point the non-wingnut MSM will just refer to this guy’s book without the fact checking. The result will be anyone joining the conversation late will just hear the accusations and not the debunking. because it is one more ‘scandal’
Matt McIrvin
@Doug R:
I don’t believe that Ballotpedia poll. It’s way out of line with other state polls taken around the same time, which show, for instance, Pennsylvania within one or two points–I think there were sampling problems of some sort.
This is going to be as close as 2012 or 2008 on the outside, not a landslide. Trump is awful and most people know it, but Hillary Clinton is loathed just slightly less than Trump, for all the reasons people have been stating in this thread.
Also, the Bernie-or-Busters are going to be pooping in the punchbowl all the way to November. They’re a small fraction of the electorate, but every liberal knows some, they’re in the forums and political media we use to encourage and inform ourselves, and dealing with them just saps energy. And unlike Hillary in ’08, Bernie isn’t particularly doing much to dissuade them and I doubt he ever will. I think Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are going to get more votes than their parties ever have before.
aimai
I want to say one final thing before I go back to making dinner. A) Hillary Clinton penned a good bye note for The Toast. B) The same damned people who spent 8 years backseat driving Obama’s administration and complaining that they could have done whatever whatever whatever better than Obama are now going to spend the next eight years complaining that Hillary and Bill R doing it rong in the White House again. I get it–in this miracle age everyone is not famous for 15 minutes, but their a god damned expert all the fucking time about everything. But really–we pretty much aren’t. Politics is a profession. Obama, Bill, and Hillary are professionals. When they get into office they try to do some good shit with their power. That’s all I’m asking. And like I said upthread if most of the kibbitzers online had to take a tenth of the shit Obama, Bill, and Hillary have taken every day of their public lives most people would not be able to get out of bed. Let alone stand for office again and put themselves and their families in harms way again. If anything I admire Hillary more than I ever thought possible because she knows, better than anyone, what a crappy, thankless, humiliating, tedious, task it is going to be to try to drag this country kicking and screaming towards a better future. She’s going to get attacked from the right and the left every living minute. And everyone is going to have an opinion on her and her marriage–just like they did on her bangs (and, IIRC, Michelle’s bangs). Just stop sweating the small stuff. If you don’t, you won’t be able to someday run for President like she is doing.
Citizen Alan
@Mnemosyne:
Or even better, remember when they were moving to Chappaqua and somehow Buddy the White House dog got loose, ran into the street, and got run over? IIRC, at least 3 conservative papers ran articles insinuating that Bill deliberately had the dog killed so that it would drum up sympathy for Hillary during her Senate campaign. That was the point at which I finally accepted that the GOP was insane.
Keith G
@D58826: Verum est in his verbis
= This
les
@Brachiator:
This. Is. The. Point. The Clinton scandals were not scandals either. 6 years, millions of dollars in investigations. No. Fucking. Scandal. I give up. You’ve essentially accepted the RW Noise Machine view of 25 years of Clintons. Congratulations.
Patricia Kayden
@azlib: Most voters are too intelligent to get themselves worked up over another Clinton non-scandal.
By the way, why would President Clinton choose to meet in public with Attorney General Lynn to discuss his wife’s email “scandal” when he could have contacted her privately via telephone or email? Just another silly “scandal” involving the Clintons.
Keith G
@aimai:
Indeed. The profession they have embarked on is in the politics of a democratic form of government.
That means that they agree to being held accountable. They agree that the actions they take in the public space (or that impacts the public space) is open to the judgement of their fellow citizens.
dr. luba
@D58826: S
Not just the Clintons. Any Democratic president. Because, in their eyes, no Democratic president can possibly be legitimate.
ruemara
Jesus H. Christ. The man talked to the AG & her husband. On a tarmac. You do realize that if he’s eating french fries outside, it will also be bad for optics? This is on a level of the arugula & mustard crap. I’m not surprised at the CDS sufferers feeling all smug and using it as banner of Why Hillary Clinton Is A Weak Candidate; I’m just surprised the left CDS sufferers are really stuck with this level of concern and triumphal whingeing. This means nothing to the general public. It’s getting air time because there’s nothing to discuss but the obvious evil of Trump versus the banal politician Clinton.
SiubhanDuinne
@Felonius Monk:
Poor Kris Krispy. Poor Leroy Newton.
?
Duncan Watson
@MattF: Trump or a geas ridden elf-lord and his dragon-queen. Trump. The elf-lord would bring about CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN much sooner.
Brachiator
@D58826:
AG Lynch has said that the visit was stupid, and has moved on. This should be good enough for everyone.
Actually the MSM, whatever that’s supposed to be, will probably do fact checking. And with the Internets, the truth will be out there. Snopes already has detailed debunking.
But the people who want the lies will do everything they can to avoid learning the real deal.
SiubhanDuinne
@dr. luba:
This is true. Remember last year when Jimmy Carter announced that he had been diagnosed with cancer? Some of the comments were appalling, wishing the treatment to fail. When he announced earlier this year that the treatment had apparently been successful, some of the comments mourned that fact. When, recently, news came that the Guinea Worm has been effectively eradicated globally, there were comments that wished JC had been infested with GW.
There are people who loathe and detest every Democratic President since the end of WWII. There are still people who celebrate the assassination of JFK, and the deaths of his brothers. The letter “D” after a politician’s name is like a red flag to a bull. There is no reasoning with them at all.
Felonius Monk
@SiubhanDuinne:
As much as I detest Mike Pence, Poor Mike Pence.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
Before that too.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
Cite? Of any kind? Seriously, I would love to see another, non-Clinton situation where a prosecutor was accused of the appearance of impropriety for having a public conversation with the spouse of a person under investigation by law enforcement. Just one.
J R in WV
@aimai:
Great minds and all that, right?
Groucho48
I posted this at the tail end of the last thread about this. Whenever something like this comes up, we need to put it in some kind of context. I bolded the part in the quote that sets some kind of context. Any given weekend, in Washington, there are probably half a dozen parties going on in which folks being investigated are mingling with the investigators. In all the MSM coverage I’ve seen, stuff like that is never mentioned. We are presented with this isolated incident with lots of negative spin put on it and we are led to think this is some kind of anomalous breech of all that is legal and moral. When, it isn’t. Unless you have reacted in a similar way to every breech of prosecutorial aloofness that has gotten some kind of attention in the last few years, most of which were much more serious than this trivial one, you are a concern troll or worse.
Lurkypants
@Brachiator:
Well, duh. But remember, Bill was in the middle of the Paula Jones suit at the time this all broke, and he was trying to not perjure himself *in that case* while trying to make a political statement. “Sexual relations” had a definition *for that case.* He could honestly say, within the context of the Paula Jones case, that he was not having “sexual relations.” I don’t recall if the court had ruled that the video depositions could be made public, so he may have been betting on there not being any way for his testimony (or anyone else’s) to be made public. He was in unprecedented territory there.
Schlemazel Khan
We went to dinner for a couple hours. It is stunning to see how well the trolls have kept the thread busy & pointless. My congratulations to Fox and the GOP boiler ops.
aimai
@Keith G: You are really one of the most pompous people who posts here. That was just jaw dropping.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@msdc:
For milennials, the question is increasingly: Clinton or Stein.
John Weiss
Improper but not illegal acts (often) pretty much defines my life. We all know who the oliphants in the room are, and for the most part our – representatives are failing to address. You know, things like poverty, GW, income inequality, pitchforks and tar and stuffl