Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

Consistently wrong since 2002

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

No one could have predicted…

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Thursday Evening Open Thread: Tim’s Right About Medicare

Thursday Evening Open Thread: Tim’s Right About Medicare

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From the article:

… “We say to our Republicans that want to privatize Medicare, go try it, make our day,” said Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the incoming Democratic leader, mustering his best Clint Eastwood/Ronald Reagan impersonation.

Since 1995 — when the newly installed speaker, Newt Gingrich, famously proposed $270 billion in cuts to Medicare and declared the program would “wither on the vine” because of the appeal of Republican-crafted free-market options — Democrats have seen the exceedingly popular but financially strained program as a winning wedge issue…

Now Democrats intend to capitalize on it again, beginning with their approach to the nomination of Representative Tom Price, Republican of Georgia, to lead the Department of Health and Human Services.

Mr. Price is not only a leading proponent of repealing the Obama-era health care law, but he has embraced Republican efforts to move future Medicare users into private insurance programs and raise the eligibility age. He told reporters shortly after the Nov. 8 election that he anticipated Republicans would embark on a substantial Medicare overhaul within the first six to eight months of Donald J. Trump’s presidency.

Senate Democrats intend to press Mr. Price on this subject during his confirmation hearings. They see a wide opening for political gain, given the 57 million older Americans who rely on Medicare — including many white Midwesterners with financial worries who voted for Mr. Trump.

“Good luck to selling that to the voters in Indiana and Ohio that were Democrats and voted for Trump this time,” Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio, said about a Medicare revamp. “They’re going to be fleeing quickly, right?”

A Medicare fight is also a potential political lifeline for Democrats in red states who could be in very tough contests in 2018. Ten Senate Democrats face re-election in states carried by Mr. Trump. One of them, Joe Donnelly of Indiana, has already made it clear that he will brook no overhaul of Medicare and that he intends to vote against Mr. Price’s nomination to the health care agency…

Democrats also noted that Mr. Trump did not campaign on the idea of tinkering with Medicare or its companion entitlement program, Social Security. In fact, his statements about those two cornerstones of American retirement security were that he would not cut them. That difference raises the prospect of a clash with congressional Republicans — particularly House Republicans led by Speaker Paul D. Ryan — who have long pushed for Medicare changes and championed them in House budgets…

So, with a little luck & a lot of skill, we can protect Medicare, scare a bunch of venal Repubs, ding up a particularly bad cabinet member wannabe, drive a wedge between the upcoming President-with-an-asterisk and his GOP ‘partners’, and keep voters’ attention focused for the 2018 elections. Sounds worth some phone calls to me!
***********
Apart from fighting the good fight, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

163Comments

  1. 1.

    Trentrunner

    I hope you’re right about the politics being on our side.

    But after the campaign and now Carrier and who-knows-what-else, I think Trump accrues and spends political capital in new ways. Don’t be so sure he can’t fool the rubes.

  3. 3.

    HeartlandLiberal

    I plan to start faxing at least twice a week to my Senators and Representative. Indiana. Sigh. But it is the least I can do.

    Do NOT count on email. Phone. Or FAX. Emails are too easy, lost in the spam, and don’t get the same weight as phone calls or faxes.

    The problem with traditional letters is it takes too long to get through security to your reps offices.

  4. 4.

    ruemara

    I’m in burn it all down mode. I guess I feel consigned to hell, so I’d much rather get everyone into the hot pot. Yes, I know. I’m just not feeling the compassion except for those who voted against Trump.

  5. 5.

    SenyorDave

    @Trentrunner: But after the campaign and now Carrier and who-knows-what-else, I think Trump accrues and spends political capital in new ways. Don’t be so sure he can’t fool the rubes.

    I think its all Bannon. The primaries were the minor leagues and Trump rolled over his opponents. The general he was the one getting rolled and Bannon was the gamechanger. I’ll bet you one day we will find out that Bannon got to Comey, I wouldn’t be shocked if it was blackmail. I don’t think Bannon wants Trump to touch Social Security or Medicare. I think he wants the House to go after SS and Medicare and Trump will protect them. As a bone he’ll sacrifice Medicaid and they will shred that. And every other piece of the safety net, especially those pieces that go to the “others”.

  7. 7.

    SenyorDave

    @Baud: I’ve decided to protest the election result by wishing everyone Happy Holidays.

    The opening salvo on the war on Christmas!

  8. 8.

    Couldn't Stand the Weather

    These brain donors controlled all three branches in 2005. They went too far then.

    They went too far withat “fiscal cliff” bullshit a few years ago. And Trump is no smarter than Dubya. Ryan isn’t smarter than Boehner. Overreaching g00pers fuck up. And they overreach a LOT.

    Ryan has a lot of seniors in his district (whether he knows it or not), and he is gonna hear from them over the next two months.

    Like BHO said, proceed Mr. SpeakeR.

  12. 12.

    Gator90

    @HeartlandLiberal: The word “heartland” should really be retired from the non-right-wing lexicon, as it preposterously implies that Americans who live far from oceans are more valuable and virtuous than Americans who live close to an ocean. But then, maybe you’re using it ironically.

  13. 13.

    TriassicSands

    I’d much prefer the Republicans leave Medicare alone than rely on the Democrats to stop them. Even if they kill Medicare entirely, Schumer will do just fine, as will his fellow Democrats in the Senate. Millions of non-Senators won’t be so fortunate. If Schumer sees it as a great wedge issue that will help Democrats at the polls, it would be a terrible deal to gain a few seats and have Medicare voucherized.

    We can hope that when the GOP makes its move on Medicare that it will be possible to rally the American people to overwhelm the Republicans with their disapproval. However, that means relying on the American people. Those are the same people who want the government to keep its hands off their Medicare. Those are the same people who just elected Donald Trump to be their president. Forgive me if I’d rather not rely on them for anything, and certainly not something as important as Medicare.

    We can hope Schumer’s bluster is just an attempt to scare the GOP away from going after Medicare. I wouldn’t count on that working.

  15. 15.

    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class

    Heaving these out there about filial support laws for those who missed today’s conversation, as my grenades have caused some freakouts on my FB feed among the Trump voters and Trump curious.

    Most states have statutes mandating financial support of financially fragile parents, regardless of whether the parents were abusive dickbags, monetarily irresponsible, drunks, gamblers, neglectful or just plain evil. In my jurisdiction, they would be handled in family court and are very likely categorized as domestic support obligations at bankruptcy law, thereby becoming nondischargeable.

    I was putzing around one day, trying to see if our statute had ever been ruled on in terms of constitutionality, but came up blank.

    We may be up for a real legal workout if Medicare gets hammered. I have great commercials in mind – various ’60s – ’80s parental lifestyle and kid interaction scenes, followed by a phone call to beleaguered parents arriving home to a shabby home after work at 7 to face a parental call that “the check is late”, and “I’m getting calls from debt collectors while you’re supposed to be handling this”.

    Lots of articles out there, but here is Kentucky’s statute:

    530.050 Nonsupport and flagrant nonsupport

    (1) A person is guilty of nonsupport:

    (a) When he persistently fails to provide support which he can reasonably provide
    and which he knows he has a duty to provide to a minor or to a child adjudged
    mentally disabled, indigent spouse or indigent parent; …
    …
    (2) A person is guilty of flagrant nonsupport when he persistently fails to provide
    support which he can reasonably provide and which he knows he has a duty to
    provide by virtue of a court or administrative order to a minor or to a child adjudged
    mentally disabled, indigent spouse or indigent parent and the failure results in:
    (a) An arrearage of not less than one thousand dollars ($1,000); or
    (b) Six (6) consecutive months without payment of support; or
    (c) The dependent having been placed in destitute circumstances. For the
    purposes of this paragraph, it shall be prima facie evidence that a dependent
    has been placed in destitute circumstances if the dependent is a recipient of
    public assistance as defined in KRS 205.010.
    …
    (4) Any person who is eighteen (18) years of age or over, residing in this state and
    having in this state a parent who is destitute of means of subsistence and unable
    because of old age, infirmity, or illness to support himself or herself, has a duty to
    provide support for such parent and, for purposes of this section, is presumed to
    know of that duty.
    (5) Nonsupport is a Class A misdemeanor. For a second offense, the person shall
    receive a minimum sentence of seven (7) days in jail. For a third or any subsequent
    offense, the person shall receive a minimum sentence of thirty (30) days in jail.
    (6) Flagrant nonsupport is a Class D felony

    I think filial nonsupport is ripe for a constitutional challenge, but not with a conservative stacked judiciary.

    Conservatism is all about enhancing pain.

    Let the new freakouts commence.

  16. 16.

    Pogonip

    @Baud: My father was the commanding general of the war on Christmas. The torch is passed to you. Be worthy of it.

  18. 18.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Major Major Major Major: I was saying this at the start of the primaries, Democrats should choose their nominee. If you’re too pure to join the party, you don’t get to choose our nominee. As my dad used to say “Love me, love my dog”.

  25. 25.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @HeartlandLiberal:

    The problem with traditional letters is it takes too long to get through security to your reps offices.

    Yes. The last I checked, all Congressional offices (and other Federal Government offices) were still working on the assumption that any snail-mailed letter or package might easily contain anthrax; thus, they go through a long, cumbersome array of security checks and may take a few weeks to reach their destination. You’d think, after 15 years of this, they might have figured out a way to streamline things.

  27. 27.

    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class

    @SenyorDave:

    As a bone he’ll sacrifice Medicaid and they will shred that.

    Medicaid is the bone that keeps Granny in a minimally adequate nursing home long after the house with the white picket fence, the rocking chair and the carnival glass have all been sold. The alternative is to bring Granny’s dessicated, urine-soaked, barely functional shell into the living room to make agonizing noises and smell bad while the family tries to watch “The Voice” or “Duck Dynasty”.

  28. 28.

    hovercraft

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Kos thinks all primaries should be closed. I agree with him that I can’t for the life of me think why this should be controversial.

    Since that is how Hitlery stole the primaries, it will be extremely controversial. But seriously, only members of the party should be able to decide the leadership of said party. Just as I don’t get a say in who runs the gop.

  30. 30.

    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class

    @Baud:

    Interesting that they have these laws, but a person can’t include parents as family on their health insurance plans.

    Why do you hate the Profit Jesus?

  31. 31.

    Hoodie

    @SenyorDave: That makes sense considering that Bannon wants to burn down the GOP establishment and Trump is nestling in with a bunch of Wall St. types. My feeling is that Medicare Phaseout is a diversion. They’re suckering Ryan into pushing it with the Price pick for HHS. Trump will initially make some vague noises of support but then will pull the rug out from under him and make a big show of protecting Medicare. Medicare Phaseout is an obvious loser, as even their moronic base will know they’re getting screwed if they’re given a handful of coupons for health insurance. However, they’ll use the diversion to privatize SS with promises of PROFIT! with private accounts. That’s a big pool of money that Wall St. always has wanted to get its grimy paws on.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    I’ve decided to protest the election result by wishing everyone Happy Holidays.

    You despicable sneaky bastard.

  34. 34.

    germy

    Republicans are talking Medicare changes. Democrats could not be happier

    The stupid press still has to play their dumb horserace games? Why can’t they just report the facts: What Medicare and Medicaid does for people, and what privatizing it would mean? Instead they have to do their smug bullshit, like it’s all a game.

  35. 35.

    StringOnAStick

    Somewhere in the last 10 years I went to a presentation by our two CO senators, Bennet and (then) Udall about the Simpson-Bowles Commission results; these two senators were still in DC so it was hosted by Gary Hart and included about 30 to 40 constituents. Hand outs and everything, included the names of each member of the commission and what the commission was proposing. Included in the commission members list was this representative I hadn’t heard much about and didn’t know: Paul Ryan of WI.

    Killing Medicare and SS via “reform” has been Ryan’s hobby horse since he was first elected, and I hope to see him permanently jump off an electoral cliff trying to create his Randian nirvana.

  38. 38.

    jacy

    @Major Major Major Major:

    When I lived in Colorado, there were only closed primaries. Which led to me being a registered Republican for several years. That way it was easier for me to make sure the craziest Republicans were less likely to make it to a general election. Then in the general, I just voted for the Democrat.

  41. 41.

    hovercraft

    @Gator90:

    The word “heartland” should really be retired from the non-right-wing lexicon, as it preposterously implies that Americans who live far from oceans are more valuable and virtuous than Americans who live close to an ocean.

    Not intended to merely imply it, it is meant to explicit. They are better than us because they are ‘real America’.

  42. 42.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Hoodie:

    even their moronic base will know they’re getting screwed if they’re given a handful of coupons for health insurance.

    Yes, but how about “magic beans”?

  44. 44.

    danielx

    So, with a little luck & a lot of skill, we can protect Medicare, scare a bunch of venal Repubs, ding up a particularly bad cabinet member wannabe, drive a wedge between the upcoming President-with-an-asterisk and his GOP ‘partners’, and keep voters’ attention focused for the 2018 elections.

    Is there a downside here? I don’t think so….

  46. 46.

    SenyorDave

    @Hoodie: I understand the profit motive for privatizing SS, but I think its a loser as an issue. And Bannon won’t want Trump to be the president (how I hate writing that, still praying for something last second to prevent it, even a heart attack) who signs the bill destroying SS. Especially if there is a recession or a stock market correction, which will make it difficult to push the idea of privatization to the American public.
    I personally think Bannon wanted power, and he doesn’t care much about American politics other than what he can get out of it. He’s already starting to go to greener pastures by turning to the European market to foment hate. In his own way, he’s as dangerous as Trump because he is far smarter. Once he was normalized I knew we were in deep shit. Bannon is a true nazi type.

  47. 47.

    Corner Stone

    @Trentrunner:

    But after the campaign and now Carrier and who-knows-what-else, I think Trump accrues and spends political capital in new ways. Don’t be so sure he can’t fool the rubes.

    I think it’s hilarious that Trump is playing the public role of a mob enforcer but really had his henchman Pence just dump buckets of kesh in the laps of Carrier and UTX.
    “Kesh. We’re talking bundles of kesh”.

  48. 48.

    germy

    @SenyorDave:

    Don’t be so sure he can’t fool the rubes

    I’m hoping he can be outsmarted, but he’ll have NBC, CBS, ABC and the cable networks doing his PR.

  50. 50.

    Cacti

    @Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:

    Medicaid is the bone that keeps Granny in a minimally adequate nursing home long after the house with the white picket fence, the rocking chair and the carnival glass have all been sold. The alternative is to bring Granny’s dessicated, urine-soaked, barely functional shell into the living room to make agonizing noises and smell bad while the family tries to watch “The Voice” or “Duck Dynasty”.

    This.

    Most Americans don’t realize that it’s Medicaid not Medicare that covers nursing home care.

    Better get that spare bedroom ready for great grandma if Paul Ryan has his way.

    A new generation of American children is all set to learn about the joys of changing a catheter.

  52. 52.

    Corner Stone

    UTX got a piddling $7M to let Trump have a lifetime’s worth of free PR. These fucking scumbag Republicans all want free market solutions until it is their Hitler in charge.

  57. 57.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: No idea on the deal restrictions but it is supposedly over 10 years. However, I am sure there is nothing binding them to actually tough it out for any length of time. Turn the kleig lights off, jobs scamper away.
    Someone earlier made the point that Pence as Gov game them a tax break to get them there in the first place so this a double dip with no downside.

  59. 59.

    Hoodie

    @SenyorDave: Thing is, when that all that dumb SS money flows into the market, there will be an initial run up and everyone will be fat, dumb and happy. It will take a few years before the bomb explodes and retirees are left penniless. IIRC, that’s what happened in Chile after Pinochet privatized pensions.

  62. 62.

    Betty Cracker

    I’m going to protest the election results by staying seated for the national anthem as long as Orange Turdsicle is in office. I’m an obscure, middle-aged white lady, so probably no one will notice. But I do attend many sporting events, and my ass is staying glued to the bleachers as long as that p-grabbing, leering shithead represents this country.

  63. 63.

    Roger Moore

    @TriassicSands:

    If Schumer sees it as a great wedge issue that will help Democrats at the polls, it would be a terrible deal to gain a few seats and have Medicare voucherized.

    The flip side is that the voucherization plan is phased in very slowly, presumably both so they can say it doesn’t hurt any existing beneficiaries and so the fallout doesn’t hit for a long time. If they succeed in passing vouchercare but the Democrats can use it to regain control of the government, the Democrats can then restore traditional Medicare before the changes have actually started to phase in.

  66. 66.

    Corner Stone

    Anyone ask Donald Trump about his daughter moving her manufacturing to Ethiopia? How about those jobs, buttface?

  71. 71.

    jacy

    @Betty Cracker:

    Hey, I sat down for the National Anthem for the whole 8 years that Bush the younger was in the office, along with refusing the Pledge of Allegiance. Made me incredibly popular in dark red Louisiana, but I didn’t really care. It felt good.

  72. 72.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Roger Moore: I don’t believe in axial tilt, but if it’s happening then it isn’t causing it to be cold outside, or if it is causing it to be cold outside then it isn’t causing it to be dim outside, but if it’s causing both then we can’t afford lights or heating anyway, and hacked emails show that this was all cooked up by scientists to cheat their ways into that sweet sweet lighting and heating money, so axial tilt is fake.

  73. 73.

    liberal

    @Corner Stone: afaict that number is a good deal if it really bought about 1000 jobs.

    Of course, it doesn’t scale and the whole thing is stupid. Then again, so is the public.

  76. 76.

    Corner Stone

    @liberal: There’s no way that taking short term money out of IN state EDC funding to provide yooge PR headlines for Trump is a good deal.
    UTX is going to make billions more by keeping the mafia boss in chief happy. Pocket change for them (costs of keeping these jobs). And now what? Trump is going to personally call every CEO and threaten/extort/bribe them to stay?
    As you state, this can not possibly scale.

  77. 77.

    debbie

    @Corner Stone:

    Odds are good there are no restrictions. Companies break these agreements left and right, and it’s rare that the state will take them to task.This kind of thing has been rampant in Ohio for decades.

    I was interested in Trump’s statement that it would be okay for companies to move from state to state, but they wouldn’t be allowed to leave the country. Aside from that silly statement, states are going to be getting into lots of fights over poaching jobs from each other. Will Solomon Trump be able to resolve this amicably?

  82. 82.

    Turgidson

    @Baud:

    Ditching caucuses would be fine by me. Even the hallowed Iowa caucus. And yes, close the fucking primaries. I think the most insufferable thing that happened in the Dem primary was in the run up to the NY primary when BernieBros were pissy that they had missed the deadline, and called that vote suppression or disenfranchisement. No, dipshit, you missed a fucking deadline for a PARTY PRIMARY.

    I’d add the caveat that if all the primaries are closed, it should be possible for people who want to vote to join the party until relatively close to election day. That way you keep the door to the big tent open but make sure it’s only the ones on the inside picking the nominee. I suppose that wouldn’t stop non-Dems from registering to vote in the primary and then leaving the party again after doing so, but there is no perfect solution.

  83. 83.

    Kathleen

    @ruemara: I’m with you. I have no compassion for Trump voters who will endure suffering or hardship as a result of Rethuglican Apocalypse.

  85. 85.

    Baud

    @Turgidson: The one positive about Iowa now being a red state is that there is no reason for them to be first in the nation with respect to the Dem process.

    ETA: NY should probably shorten its deadlines for registering, but I agree that the rhetoric was atrocious.

  87. 87.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud: Tariffs on their products if they leave. Trump seems to think that’s within Presidential powers.

  92. 92.

    drylake

    Just got off the phone to my CA Assemblyman’s office (Tony Thurmond’s, in downtown Oakland) to suggest the CA supermajority start thinking about CA in specific and a West coast blue state coalition in general about local alternatives to medicare, medicare and ACA; he assured me they have been discussing this since Nov. 9 and are well aware of the issues involved. Cold comfort to those of you in the Real America, I realize, but then CA has to take the lead in the resistance here, if only because of our 3 million illegal voters.

  93. 93.

    Smiling Mortician

    @SenyorDave:

    Trump to be the president (how I hate writing that, still praying for something last second to prevent it, even a heart attack)

    Sorry if I’ve missed it (been working a lot, final exams etc.) but has anyone here yet discussed the request to Obama from Senate Dems on the Intelligence committee, asking him to declassify information on Russian involvement in the election? Not sure who else is covering it, but The Atlantic is.

  97. 97.

    hovercraft

    @lahke:

    Basically, both the NRA and Trump (and I also believe the Republican party) are out to create an atomized, fearful, armed population that will hunker down and fight each other rather than act collectively for our common good. They want to make us smaller and smaller.

    I call bullshit. The shitgibbon has one goal, and only one goal, to loot the treasury and enrich itself, thereby making everyone love and respect it.

  98. 98.

    NCSteve

    If Democrats stop this in 2017, they’ll get no credit for it at the polls in 2018. Because voters don’t remember a goddamned thing that happened more than five months before the election. That’s how Republicans paid no price for deficit ceiling hostage-taking, blocking jobs bills, and every other evil thing they did from 2011 to the present. Because they behave in the four months before the election and that’s all John Q. Dumbfuck knows or cares about.

  99. 99.

    SatanicPanic

    @drylake: That’s great to hear. I’ve so far been impressed with how our state government and local institutions are responding. UC (the entire system) just declared itself a sanctuary school yesterday. I thought that would be a tough battle.

  100. 100.

    Roger Moore

    @drylake:

    he assured me they have been discussing this since Nov. 9 and are well aware of the issues involved.

    That’s good to hear. It’s also a good reminder for people freaking out that the Democrats aren’t doing anything that there’s plenty of discussion of political issues that never makes it into the news.

  104. 104.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    “President-with-an-asterisk”

    Or “Comander in Cheat”

    Or “Hail to the Cheat”

  105. 105.

    Major Major Major Major

    @drylake: Wonderful to hear, thanks.

    @SatanicPanic:

    UC (the entire system) just declared itself a sanctuary school yesterday. I thought that would be a tough battle.

    The battle hasn’t started yet. Trump could try to withhold all federal funding from the UC system.

    ETA: @rikyrah: Read the comments on his article. They’re acting like he just declared war on… something.

  106. 106.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Just heard a replay of his statement. “Companies will not be able to leave this country without consequences.” So I guess the consequences are that you’re only allowed to fire half your workers and you must accept the tax breaks or abatements handed to you.

  108. 108.

    SatanicPanic

    @Major Major Major Major: I thought it would be a battle just to get them to say that though. Baby steps!

    EDIT- reminds me I have to call the alumni association (instead of them always calling me) and offer them some $$$

  110. 110.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:

    NY should probably shorten its deadlines for registering, but I agree that the rhetoric was atrocious.

    They have the deadline almost a year ahead because of rat fucking in the past, it also reduces the voting pool which protects incumbents. But thats just for registered voters who want to switch. New registrants is closer to primary day. The Sanders supporters were bitching because independents could not vote or switch because they missed the deadline to switch.

  115. 115.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:
    I think it’s more about people being worried and freaking out than it is about a need to bash Democrats. Democratic voters seem to be perpetually worried that the Democrats can’t get out of their own way and will get rolled by the Republicans on every issue. I think it’s the way they show their worries and fears; they get depressed and fatalistic.

  117. 117.

    The Pale Scot

    This is simple, for people like Moi who are in their early fifties.

    You wanna change shit just as I’m at the cusp of qualifying?
    Fuck You, pay me my money.
    Pay me every dollar I’ve contributed with the average interested rate compounded daily.

    But in 1981 the interest rate was 12%!
    FUCK YOU, pay me my money.

    But the government doesn’t have that kind of liquidity!
    FUCK YOU, pay me my money.

    Reagan increased FICA taxes and used it to fund SS and Medicare.
    I want every dime back with compounded interest.
    FUCK YOU, pay me my money.

    But, but what about those seniors?
    You mean all those bigots who voted for Trump?
    The ones who lived thru the greatest economic expansion in human history but couldn’t save a dime?

    FUCK YOU, pay me my money

    Edited

  120. 120.

    Baud

    @Roger Moore: In my many years on the internet, I’ve done a 180 and have come to trust the leadership more than the online rabble. I don’t really fit into this world anymore.

  121. 121.

    gogol's wife

    I learned from this Colbert clip that the restaurant Trump ate with Romney in was Jean Georges. He also has a clip where some fat f–k is applauding them as they walk in. Disgusting.

  122. 122.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @NCSteve:

    I agree with this assessment. Voters simply do not pay any attention to policy, which party is responsible for anything, which politician says what, or anything else. They’re cows in the field, willing to be herded by the lyingest fraud into the slaughterhouse while believing every claim that none of it is their fault or responsibility and Democrats are pointy headed abortion loving race traitors, which is worse.

  123. 123.

    SiubhanDuinne, Mob Enforcer

    @efgoldman:

    They are careful, still, to say “President-elect,” but their coverage is completely as if he were already the POTUS.

    Did they do this eight years ago? I might be misremembering, but I don’t recall quite the same level of tongue-bathing deference.

  126. 126.

    Baud

    @SiubhanDuinne, Mob Enforcer: I’m not watching now and I don’t remember 8 years ago that well, but Obama did come in riding high. But also, the economy was collapsing so it’s not like there was as much attention being paid to fluff.

  128. 128.

    SiubhanDuinne, Mob Enforcer

    @gogol’s wife:

    I learned from this Colbert clip that the restaurant Trump ate with Romney in was Jean Georges.

    Haven’t watched the clip yet. Did Colbert mention that Jean Georges is located in Trump International Hotel and Tower?

  133. 133.

    The Pale Scot

    @Hoodie:

    Thing is, when that all that dumb SS money flows into the market, there will be an initial run up and everyone will be fat, dumb and happy.

    This. The current “economic expansion” is just the Fed printing dollars that are immediately sucked into spiraling asset prices. Eventually the spigot has to turn off or be redirected to consumption. When that happens, 2007 will seem a joy.

  136. 136.

    Ksmiami

    @Hoodie: Yeah – Bannon and Trump hate RYAN. I think they are planning to pants him and leave him hanging by a strap. Even McConnell is stepping away from that ledge.

  137. 137.

    trollhattan

    @drylake:
    nice to hear somebody’s on this thing.

    Meanwhile, Jerry picks Kamala Harris’ replacement.

    Gov. Jerry Brown has tabbed Rep. Xavier Becerra to serve as California’s interim attorney general, selecting the Los Angeles Democrat to fill a vacancy opened by the imminent departure of outgoing Attorney General Kamala Harris to the U.S. Senate.

    Assuming he wins confirmation by the Legislature – a strong possibility, given the 12-term Democrat’s role as a mainstay of Democratic and Los Angeles politics – Becerra would serve as California’s top law enforcement official through 2018, with an opportunity to serve for another eight years if he runs for the office. He would be California’s first Latino attorney general.

    At a time when the election of President Donald Trump has alarmed California Democrats and thrown into question the state’s liberal stances on issues like climate change and immigration, Brown’s choice of a liberal stalwart like Becerra reaffirmed the state’s future role as a pocket of resistance.

    During the 2016 election campaign Becerra served as one of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s most prominent surrogates and campaigned for other congressional candidates, reflecting his role as chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. He also issued fiery denunciations of Trump.

    “At every stage in his life, Donald Trump has exploited America’s laws to put himself first,” he said in a speech at the Democratic National Convention in Cleveland.

    Perfect. May well be the insta-front runner for DiFi’s seat.

  138. 138.

    Major Major Major Major

    @The Pale Scot:

    The current “economic expansion” is just the Fed printing dollars that are immediately sucked into spiraling asset prices.

    Well, that’s not really accurate.

    Eventually the spigot has to turn off

    Yellen’s term expires in just over a year. Do you think Trump will pick somebody with sound notions of money? Or somebody who will keep it on full blast (or find a way to make it fullier-blastier even) to prop him up?

    Or, worse-case, the opposite, somebody who doesn’t believe in money and wants to go back to the gold standard?

  139. 139.

    The Pale Scot

    @Roger Moore:

    The flip side is that the voucherization plan is phased in very slowly, presumably both so they can say it doesn’t hurt any existing beneficiaries and so the fallout doesn’t hit for a long time.

    See FUCK YOU, pay me my money

  140. 140.

    debbie

    @efgoldman:

    The Ohio governor (Kasich) has done this same thing. He blames his Dem predecessor for losing all the jobs Ohio lost and then includes “retained jobs” in the number of jobs he’s created. He’s often had nothing to do with specific jobs staying in the state, but that doesn’t stop him from claiming them.

  144. 144.

    Mary G

    Today’s actions: Called Darrell Issa’s local office and demanded that Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare remain intact. I wrote a few more sentences on a letter I plan to send to It, deleted the profanity and rewrote two of them that I think I can keep.

    Then I went to whitehouse.gov and sent the Obamas a message:

    Dear President and Mrs. Obama:

    I haven’t always agreed with you, particularly on foreign policy, but boy am I going to miss you. You have done your country a great service and I thank you so much for all your hard work, and sacrifice of your privacy and freedom of action. I plan to be active in resisting the rollback of your achievements. Especially the ACA. You have been the best president and presidential family of my 60-year-old life.

    What will happen to the videos and photos of your speeches and events currently on whitehouse.gov? When I am down and discouraged, I watch a speech or look at a few pictures to get fired up and ready to go. There are so many I want to see, but haven’t had time to.

    God bless you, Mary

  145. 145.

    The Pale Scot

    @Major Major Major Major: OK, that was a simplistic explanantion. The money supply has expanded over the needs of the real economy. The new dollars go to bank reserves with the notion that that they are available for lending to jump the economy, but without Glass-Steagal the banks are buying assets, inflating prices. Simple block houses in my FL neorborhood are over 175Gs, it’s insane.

    PS. I’m in my cups and I don’t follow finance like I use to before 2007, I know there’s something I’m missing. But that’s the gist as I understand it.

  147. 147.

    The Pale Scot

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Do you think Trump will pick somebody with sound notions of money? Or somebody who will keep it on full blast (or find a way to make it fullier-blastier even) to prop him up?

    Or, worse-case, the opposite, somebody who doesn’t believe in money and wants to go back to the gold standard?

    Gold Standard, fuck no, he’d be whacked before the ink was dry. Dollars are priced by oil. Petrodollars, that’s the concept that world finance has used since 1958. The ME oligarchs will sell the West oil, denominated in dollars. The ME oligarchs will deposit those dollars in Anglo banks. The Anglo political edifice will support and defend the ME oligarchs.

    Saddam was around until he tried to create an oil market denominated with Euros

    Qaddafi was around until he tried to create an oil market denominated with Euros.

    Less than a year later, POOF, all gone.

    It’s not a coincidence. Switzerland, Luxembourg are banking redoubts that can do that. Manufacturing and resource extraction countries can’t.

    And really, the gold standard is an archaic notion. You can’t eat it or turn it into plowshares or gold. The nation making steel will devour the nation extracting gold every time.

  148. 148.

    Applejinx

    @Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:

    Heaving these out there about filial support laws for those who missed today’s conversation, as my grenades have caused some freakouts on my FB feed among the Trump voters and Trump curious…

    Botsplainer, you are an evil bastard with something wrong with your head… and I am LOVING it right now.

    Wow. Please carry on. Filial support laws, eh? Those millennials who didn’t vote can just sell some of their diamonds to pay for Old Drunk Dad’s hospital bills. Wow wow. That’ll go over well :D

  150. 150.

    Applejinx

    @The Pale Scot: There isn’t enough gold in the solar system and neighboring stars to back what our wise investor class have done with the concept of money. Sure, we can do gold standard, if every rich person in the world abandons 99% of their money to do so. That, too, will go over well.

  151. 151.

    debbie

    @The Pale Scot:

    My memory’s poor, but I think that scans similarly to “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.” Regardless, I say the same thing. Give me back everything I’ve paid in.

  153. 153.

    Applejinx

    @Baud: I don’t want open primaries. Not now. Too much went wrong. The objections to it were well founded.

    I’m not sure if I would have acted differently if I could do it all over again: NH, which I worked on, was very early. But it turned into such a shitshow… no more open primaries. And Bernie won’t run again, and Hillary ought not to run again. The shitshow tainted everything it touched and gave us President The Donald Trump. Enough, no more open primaries and let’s have a new cast of characters.

  155. 155.

    Roger Moore

    @The Pale Scot:

    The current “economic expansion” is just the Fed printing dollars that are immediately sucked into spiraling asset prices.

    Not really. That explains the current bull market on Wall Street- though a lot of the money the Fed has been printing has just wound up in banks’ reserves, rather than buying assets- but there has been real economic growth during the Obama years. That’s why there has been steady if unspectacular job growth and even some increase in real wages. I think you can explain most of it as recovery from the depths of the recession to something closer to full employment plus whatever productivity growth there has been, but it’s a genuine improvement.

  157. 157.

    wenchacha

    @SenyorDave: A friend noted Bannon looks like a practicing alcoholic. Maybe it’s an intentional feint, but he looks mighty rumpled and his face looks like shit.

  158. 158.

    Morzer

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Do you think Trump will pick somebody with sound notions of money?

    Trump’s idea of money is “stuff you steal from other people”. The way his mind works, we’ll probably get some guy who did time for stealing cars. Or burning his own business down for the insurance money.

  159. 159.

    Jim Parene

    @efgoldman: LOL! Your Blue state cholesterol is just fine! I’m a Nyer, transplanted to the land of oversize pickem up trucks. My NY soul could use some good, old-fashioned , Carniegie Deli Corned Beef or a Yona Schimmel’s Knish!

  160. 160.

    Morzer

    @efgoldman:

    Sounds like an ambitious young thruster could make a killing…

    E F Goldman, Licensed Purveyor of Kosher Delights.

    It has a ring to it, you know.

  161. 161.

    Matt McIrvin

    So it sounds as if the plan for the ACA will be to just ram through a bill that destroys it, without replacement, with a two-year delay.

    That’s actually pretty clever in an evil way, because, of course, two years is a midterm cycle. Suppose that by some miracle the Democrats manage to take one or more houses of Congress in 2018: they’ll still be forced to sign on to whatever piece of crap the Republicans pass as an ACA “replacement” and that Trump will sign, because, unlike Republicans, they’re not monsters and the alternative is nothing. Total gridlock won’t be an acceptable result. Then the Democrats will have been forced into part ownership of said piece of crap. It’s all about domination.

  162. 162.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Roger Moore:

    I think it’s more about people being worried and freaking out than it is about a need to bash Democrats. Democratic voters seem to be perpetually worried that the Democrats can’t get out of their own way and will get rolled by the Republicans on every issue. I think it’s the way they show their worries and fears; they get depressed and fatalistic.

    Or maybe it’s because those worries and fears are completely justified. The Republicans at every level of government are perfectly willing to destroy the nation and kill or harm their own constituents, and somehow escape any political punishment for this, because said constituents are stupid and blame Democrats for everything. The Democrats are, for the most part, not like this. That puts the Republicans at an immense advantage, because they can take the whole society hostage with the knowledge that they will still win even if they shoot the hostage. That was how they essentially managed to keep controlling the country while in the minority at the federal level.

  163. 163.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Gator90: Wasn’t the word “heartland” (or the German equivalent) a big part of Nazi theory about why they needed to invade Russia?

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