Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

I really should read my own blog.

Washington Post’s Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, it’s door #2)

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Mourn, Organize / Late Night Open Thread: Reverberations from the Women’s March Are Just Beginning

Late Night Open Thread: Reverberations from the Women’s March Are Just Beginning

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Julia Ioffe, Russian emigre and professional cynic, despite her worst fears was not immune:

… But unlike in Moscow, I spoke to people here who knew that this rally by itself would change nothing; that only politics could. “I don’t think it’s going to make a difference,” said an older woman from Pennsylvania. “It might, but only in two years. It’s more for the people here to feel like they’re part of something.” Her sights were set on the congressional elections of 2018, on more concrete political action. Unlike the Moscow protesters, these women had access to a strong and vibrant civil society, a century-old women’s rights movement, and legislative elections that aren’t rigged by the executive. Women riding back from the rally on the Metro chattered about the midterms and the presidential election of 2020….

Another professional cynic:

Reader Interactions

134Comments

  1. 1.

    BBA

    Unlike the Moscow protesters, these women had access to a strong and vibrant civil society, a century-old women’s rights movement, and legislative elections that aren’t rigged by the executive.

    Instead our legislative elections are rigged by the (state) legislatures. That’s not a whole lot better.

  4. 4.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @BBA: Stop it. Everyone who wants to lead off with how hard it is going to be, just stop it. It was a good weekend. It fired people up. A good number of them are going to go to work. And people going to work is what we need.

  5. 5.

    GregB

    I am thinking of setting up a Go Fund Me for Byron York so I can buy him a fainting couch. He seems very flustered that a lot of women were so blunt, plain spoken, telling it like it is and used salty locker room talk on their protest signs.

    If we can’t buy the couch, at least a very dainty Southern style hand fan.

  6. 6.

    David ?Alternative Facts? Koch

    Congratulations to Green Bay and Pittsburgh on making it to the Super Bowl.

  10. 10.

    satby

    @Omnes Omnibus: yep. And no one is under the illusion it will be that easy, but let’s face it, anythung a Teaparty dweeb can do, we can do better. Their demonstrations were pitiful little gatherings numbered in the hundreds at most, ours were in millions.

  12. 12.

    Schlemazel

    On the Trump tweets, it was noted during the campaign that there were 2 phones involved The iPhone was always conciliatory and diplomatic, the Android was always distasteful and hateful
    Every hyperbolic tweet is from Android (from him).
    Every non-hyperbolic tweet is from iPhone (his staff).

    Someone should keep track of this now

  14. 14.

    Feathers

    One thing that struck me about the marches was that it was a real sign to corporate America and the entertainment industry that Trump’s winning the election doesn’t mean that the spirit of the Obama age is over. There seems to have been so much, out with Obama, in with Trump. But the electoral fiddling means that this is really not true, Democrats won the popular vote in the presidential election, and won more votes for the House and the Senate as well. That we currently have a Republican government is simply a factor of a system created over two centuries ago as a method of ensuring the continuance of slavery.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Considering that there were cis-men wearing pink pussyhats, I’m sensing that your friends are desperately jealous that the march was a far bigger success than anything they’ve been involved with in their pathetic, wasted lives.

  24. 24.

    Stacy

    I’d like to reassure the GOP that yes we women are organizing beyond the march. We’ve been doing it on FaceBook and in person. Last week I went with IndivisibleLove from Lovettsville, VA(10) to Rep. Barbara Comstock’s office to hold her accountable for her votes against the ACA. 60 people showed up on a weeks notice. She won by 20,000 votes and has 40,000 people on ACA in her district. I’m
    pretty sure almost no one crowded in her office that day has ever done anything like that. I know I haven’t.

  25. 25.

    StringOnAStick

    @Major Major Major Major: I had hoped the purity lefties would start to remember that thing their parent would say when they were being whiny little kids: “you want me to give you something to really cry about?!?!!”. Well, we got that something, and holy shit its bad, but they are still doing the ‘not good enough’ dance? Makes me glad I quit answering the email!s of my old Enhance the Contradictions acquaintance long before drump became the candidate and he could gush about how great it was going to be to vote for him and bring the glorious revolution closer.

  28. 28.

    Schlemazel

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Because the browser remembers a place and brings you to that while all those damned tweets are still loading so the place the browser brought you is no longer the place it thought you were at. I hate threads with many tweets because of this.

    EDIT: M^4 explained it better but it is still annoying

  30. 30.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It was a good weekend. It fired people up. A good number of them are going to go to work. And people going to work is what we need.

    Yes. This. And we are working. We started working before the march and we’re working now after the march. In the meantime, I’m still celebrating an inspiring event that exceeded all expectations. Yay us!!!

  33. 33.

    GregB

    Christmas tree ornament tin soldier Kellyanne Conway gave Trump’s adversaries a lifetime of talking points with that grotesque and inane alternative facts talking point.

    Already whispers from inside the Trump team that they were alarmed at his weekend meltdown.

    Instead of hitting the ground running he has hit the deck of an American aircraft carrier like a Japanese zero.

  36. 36.

    Lizzy L

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thank you. I was just about to lose it in a very impolite fashion. The we’re-so-fucked-we’re-all-gonna-die needs to stop. In a prior post last month (or possibly earlier) Adam pointed out that while Putin’s agenda is to destabilize the U.S. and destroy/discredit liberal democracy around the world, in fact, he doesn’t really understand the United States that well. In my lifetime I have seen liberal grass roots political action achieve its goals and transform the country. We have done this, we can do this, we know how, and it is possible. Yes, some of those are partial victories, yes, the right will fight back, they always do, yes, the left goes to sleep when it shouldn’t — but we can do this. I spent the whole weekend talking political strategy with people 30 and 40 years younger than I am, and they listened. There are a lot of us out there, and T has awakened us. I truly believe that T and his Congressional enablers do not know what they are facing. They think it is all business as usual, a little marching, some protests, and after a while we will all go back to sleep. No. No.

  37. 37.

    Schlemazel

    I realize I am well versed in seeing the negatives but here is my concern: We have done nothing & won nothing yet. Yesterday was a fabulous start and could be the fresh beginning to a real sea change in America. But it is just the first step in a thousand mile journey & I do not want people thinking everything is going to be great now & we can all relax. We are in for a lot of defeats yet so I would be happy if we could stop congratulating ourselves and get down to some ass kicking.

  38. 38.

    Mnemosyne

    @rikyrah:

    I can’t say for sure, but I do think the election was a wake-up call to a lot of liberal white people that the white people they knew did not have the same beliefs. I’ve been pretty lucky in my family, because my older brother and older (male) cousin — both lifelong Republicans — were both horrified by Trump and did not vote for him. But there’s another cousin in Wisconsin that I will never be able to look at the same way again, or her gullible asshole of a husband.

  40. 40.

    dww44

    @Omnes Omnibus: Plus, from one who attended a sister march, it just felt good and was such a perfect antidote to what had transpired the day before. It was joyful and there can never be too much joy in life.

  43. 43.

    Major Major Major Major

    @rikyrah: I’ve been seeing things along the lines of, white people who didn’t show up at BLM rallies have no business protesting now.

    Anyway lefties gonna lefty. Just complaining. Didn’t mean to threadjack. Go women’s march!

  46. 46.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Schlemazel: You stop it too. Please. If you see people not following on, call them out. We took the first step. Let people be happy and motivated. People need it. A shit-ton of people are motivated by hope not fear. Let’s use that. You? I know you do your share (and possibly more), but we want to bring in the marginally involved, and they need hope not fear. IMO.

  47. 47.

    Lizzy L

    @Lizzy L: I need to add, some of those 30 and 40 year olds had cogent, important stuff to say about making political alliances and about current political organizations — and I listened to them, and learned from them.

    @efgoldman: What you said. The defeatists and the purity ponies are gonna kill us if we let them.

  49. 49.

    Anne Laurie

    @StringOnAStick:

    I had hoped the purity lefties would start to remember that thing their parent would say when they were being whiny little kids: “you want me to give you something to really cry about?!?!!”. Well, we got that something, and holy shit its bad, but they are still doing the ‘not good enough’ dance?

    In my experience, the More Purist Than Thou Leftists had parents who negotiated with their tantrum-throwing. Sweetie, please don’t kick over the supermarket display… yes, I know you don’t want to be here, but mommy has to do the shopping… how about, if you’re very patient for the next ten minutes, you can have a cookie after we check out?… Okay, one cookie when we get to the checkout stand, and two cookies when we get to the car?

    These are people, some of them now old enough to be grandparents themselves, who are still outraged that the world in general offers them no cookies however fierce the fits they throw. I suspect a lot of them voted for Lord Smallgloves, not so much to ‘heighten the contradictions’, but because he’s always gotten his cookie, one way or another, and they genuinely admire that talent!

  50. 50.

    Schlemazel

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Understood. I don’t see it as fear as much as preparation. Be prepared for what is to come, even after the rush of Saturday is subsided.

    Life has taught me not to be too optimistic, to always have a plan b, c and d just in case.

  52. 52.

    Mnemosyne

    @Schlemazel:

    I haven’t seen anyone who actually went to a march say that was all they needed to do. I’ve only seen people who couldn’t be arsed to show up insist that the people who did go aren’t going to do anything.

    IOW, other people aren’t the problem, son. If you’re worried no one will take action after the march, get off your ass and take action rather than carping from the sidelines about what other people should do.

  53. 53.

    randy khan

    @Schlemazel:

    Speaking just for myself here, but I’ve been both taking actions and working to get the people I know to act for the last month-plus. My first post this morning on Facebook (where I do a lot of this) was about how people need to get over our shock and grief from the election and take concrete action. My second post was pointing to who to call about Betsy DeVos.

    I’m just a few drops of water, and I know we won’t always succeed (in fact, will probably lose a *lot* of battles along the way), but I also know this is what we have to do. And, honestly, after being in the march in D.C. yesterday, and seeing all those people from all over the place there, I think that most people on our side get it.

  54. 54.

    Byrookorbycrook

    @Schlemazel:
    This fight will be long and it will be an increasing slog. We need to take a little hope and pleasure as we go or we will burn out. Celebrate the wins, and this was a win, just getting this many people to stand up is a win, and prepare for the long war ahead. Even if Trump resigns tomorrow, the GOP is in full nutty power now. They have many fall guys while razing the gains of the last 150 years.

  55. 55.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Schlemazel: Contingency plans are always good. OTOH, when I was an army officer, I found that saying, “This is our mission. It is what we need to do. Yeah, it may seem unfair, but it is our fucking job. Now get to work.” worked. That is where we are now, but I can’t order people to do things. I can just talk about where we are and do my bit.

  57. 57.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne:

    I can’t say for sure, but I do think the election was a wake-up call to a lot of liberal white people that the white people they knew did not have the same beliefs.

    I know someone who said this exact thing to me. That she was shocked by how the vote turned out and had been living in her mostly white, liberal bubble. She had seen some of the posts in support of Trump by old high school friends on Facebook but kind of wrote them off. She told me it was a real wake up call.

  59. 59.

    EBT

    @Major Major Major Major: As a real life trans person from a real life shit hole state who experienced real life persecution from shitty people in power, let me invite you 100% to invoke me when telling your friends that is bullshit.

  60. 60.

    Emerald

    @efgoldman: @Lizzy L:

    The defeatists and the purity ponies are gonna kill us if we let them.

    If the Democratic party fades into history, it will be the purity ponies that send it there.

    Al Giordano tweeted today that our success or failure rides on organizing without them. (sorry, can’t link)

    They are toxic ego-driven black holes of spite and venom. We need to just kick them away as far as possible. We have to keep them out and away from any real organizing efforts.

  61. 61.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The point is, don’t worry about what other people might or might not do, especially if you’re projecting your fears into the future. Just do your own part and set a good example. You can’t control anyone other than yourself.

  62. 62.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    @Schlemazel: Everyone I heard has called it a good first step. The march-related Facebook groups I belong to are posting mostly action items now.

    I think that’s part of why the Pantsuit Nation page collapsed — too much about the feels, not enough about concrete action. People want to do something, not just talk to each other.

  63. 63.

    NotMax

    Maybe now the younger generations won’t be quite so quick to dismiss the protesters of the 60s as DFHs.

  65. 65.

    tobie

    @Feathers:

    Democrats won the popular vote in the presidential election, and won more votes for the House and the Senate as well.

    I think there may have been more ballots cast for Republicans than Democrats in House races because of the perverse way districts have been gerrymandered to favor the GOP but Dems definitely got more votes than Republican in all Senate races combined and, of course, in the presidential race.

    This is just a minor quibble. Your point holds. I’m hoping that the news media and the advertisers they depend on realized yesterday that the majority of Americans are not gun-toting, bible-thumping, Duck-Dynasty-watching bumpkins, but urban and suburban liberals who have enough purchasing power to buy train tickets, plane tickets, and bus tickets to marches near and far. This may be one of the rare cases where the people will lead and the media will follow. They need viewers and consumers after all.

  66. 66.

    Caphilldcne

    As a very infrequent commenter please let me assure you that i marched with a large contingent of LGBT marchers from the National LGBT Task Force’s Creating Change Conference to the Philadelphia rally. That group had many many trans women and men (including nationally known activists) who seemed quite happy to be marching. I’m quite certain that, if this was a major (pardon the pun) concern, they would have no trouble voicing it.

  67. 67.

    RealityBites

    @rikyrah: saw a long thread on Twitter complaining that the marchers were too white and too friendly to the police. Also saw a great sign a man was carrying that said ‘ if you want something done, ask a black woman’.

  68. 68.

    Sab

    @Major Major Major Major: Before the March I thought the pink cantata were silly and demeaning. I was an idiot. They were amazing and defined it. You cannot look at those pictures and think it was just another march.

  69. 69.

    Redshift

    @Schlemazel:

    But it is just the first step in a thousand mile journey & I do not want people thinking everything is going to be great now & we can all relax.

    As others have also pointed out, much of the joy in the marches was because of the sense of power and potential, not “yay, look at what we did.” Case in point, the chant “welcome to your first day/we won’t go away!”

    Out of the protests I have attended over the years, this was probably the most oriented toward organizing and getting people involved for the long term. This was done both overtly, and by encouraging those going to organize and attend sign-making and planning parties, which conveniently put them in contact with other like-minded local people, just the kind they’ll need to be working with going forward.

  71. 71.

    Sab

    Me and auto correct have issues. I even read before I print comment, but still it publishes cantata when I meant cat hats. I am speechless in surprise and indignation. Phuck

  72. 72.

    Gretchen

    People always point to Kansas as a dire warning of things to come. I live here, and I think we’re a hopeful example of what the rest of the country can be if the spirit of yesterday is carried into action. We’ve had Kris Kobach as Secretary of State, and I’m sure there is voter suppression and other nefarious things going on, but when people realized where this was going, they stood up and fought back. The last election turfed out a bunch of Brownback cronies. People who have voted Republican reflexively their whole live pulled the lever for Democrats and moderate Republicans, because they were sick of the school and highway funds being robbed to pay for high end tax cuts. If it can happen here, it can happen anywhere.

  74. 74.

    Origuy

    From Chris Clarke on Facebook:

    We are the aging lefty men
    ten thousand armchairs strong
    We’ll analyze your movement and
    tell you what you get wrong.
    you might be far too middle-class
    or stuck in your niche cause;
    here come the armchair leftists
    to enumerate your flaws.
    Your focus on identity
    we just don’t understand
    it’s true that Your Lives Matter
    but then on the other hand,
    Glass-Steagall you don’t mention
    when you protest killer cops.
    We think you should prioritize
    before your movement flops.
    You know we really sympathize
    with women’s daunting lives
    we understand their grievances;
    why, you can ask our wives.
    It’s just we have misgivings
    ’bout your pussy-hatted throng:
    we are the aging lefty men
    ten thousand armchairs strong.

  78. 78.

    Lyrebird

    @EBT: Thanks EBT!

    Thanks also for reminding me… I haven’t made all my supposedly year-end donations, been selfishly focused on my job search. BUT. Gotta send a few coppers to an advocacy group for folks who are trans. Not bc I have a clue, bc human rights goldingit!

    There was a sweet profile on Google of a gal who heads up an advocacy group in DC, hafta look that up again.

  80. 80.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    It’s not just a tweet thing. It’s the general positioning mechanism. Right now (in the desktop version) if you click on a time stamp below a commenter’s nym, which should bring that comment up to the top of the screen, it doesn’t reliably do that now. Or if you click on a “reply to” nym to see what the previous comment said, you now end up somewhere in the vicinity of that comment but typically a screen or two below it.

    It may be two separate but similar problems. Shorter: shit is fucked up and shit.

  82. 82.

    hovercraft

    @Schlemazel:

    On the Trump tweets, it was noted during the campaign that there were 2 phones involved The iPhone was always conciliatory and diplomatic, the Android was always distasteful and hateful
    Every hyperbolic tweet is from Android (from him).
    Every non-hyperbolic tweet is from iPhone (his staff).

    Someone should keep track of this now

    Joy Reid said on her show that it appears that since reporters were keeping track, it looks like they may all have switched over to Android, to make it harder to know the source. That way there will be greater deniability, anything truly egregious they can claim was tweeted by someone else. The assumption is mine, Joy reported just the switch.

  83. 83.

    Petorado

    I love the point of the needlepoint depicted in the lead-in photo. From what I can derive from all the people I know who attended marches from D.C. to Portland, OR and points in-between, everyone feels energized, validated, and that they were amazed out the outpouring of creativity that changed the way they see their fellow human beings and the way that they perceive what is going on around them.

    Republicans are big on symbolism for a purpose — it has tremendous power in shifting mindsets. The Trump and Republican worldview lost its validation in only his first full day in office. Everyone I know who went to a march (or even worked to enable others to go) now feels that their seemingly insignificant actions really can have a purpose and can force change in untold ways. Nobody thought the marches would be this big a deal, and yet on seven continents folks came out of their shells to publicly display their outrage at Trump and the ideas he stands for. To paraphrase Joe Biden, this weekend was a big fucking deal. Who can now say Trump speak for a majority or has any form of a mandate? (besides his “alternative facts” insiders?)

  85. 85.

    Origuy

    I’ll try again, because it’s too good to miss. From Chris Clarke on Facebook:

    We are the aging lefty men
    ten thousand armchairs strong
    We’ll analyze your movement and
    tell you what you get wrong.
    you might be far too middle-class
    or stuck in your niche cause;
    here come the armchair leftists
    to enumerate your flaws.
    Your focus on identity
    we just don’t understand
    it’s true that Your Lives Matter
    but then on the other hand,
    Glass-Steagall you don’t mention
    when you protest killer cops.
    We think you should prioritize
    before your movement flops.
    You know we really sympathize
    with women’s daunting lives
    we understand their grievances;
    why, you can ask our wives.
    It’s just we have misgivings
    ’bout your рussy-hatted throng:
    we are the aging lefty men
    ten thousand armchairs strong.

    I changed the p to a Russian р.

  86. 86.

    Lyrebird

    @Redshift: Some congresscritter was talking about Dems having a war on white people. I’m glad so many white folks marched… I know who’s really waging war against the poor (incl white poor folks), the hard to insure (including thousands and thousands of white ppl), the working moms (ditto), etc etc etc. I’m also sentimental enough to get all teary watching/reading John Lewis’ remarks.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks… the other thing the march did was improve morale. Morale is relevant, right? (so is sleep…)

  87. 87.

    Yarrow

    @hovercraft: Supposedly Trump had to give up his Android phone and has a new secure phone.

    Donald Trump has given up his beloved Android phone ahead of today’s inauguration, the Associated Press reports, though it is unclear what type of device he will use in the White House. According to The New York Times, Trump is now using a more secure, encrypted handset that was approved by the Secret Service. He also has a different phone number, the Times reports, citing people close to the president-elect.

  88. 88.

    Petorado

    @hovercraft: One of a number of reports has Trump said had to relinquish said Android device:

    President Trump began his new job and, at the insistence of the Secret Service, finally ditched his old cell phone for something more secure. Trump’s reported reluctance to part with his Android device was not unusual—people in power, like most of us, prefer convenience over security.

  89. 89.

    Redshift

    Oh, in the same vein as the needlepoint sign in the post, a friend has a picture of a sign she saw our DC match:

    I came to knit hats and punch Nazis, and I’m all out of yarn!”

  91. 91.

    Suzanne

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: Pantsuit Nation was also full of white women who didn’t want to hear anything less than New Agey upliftey shit, and got their feathers ruffled if black women didn’t sign on.

    There was a time when I thought that black women asserting that white women are their greatest enemies was really cold, untrue shit. Now I get it. And I’m glad I kept my mouth shut and my ears open until I figured it out.

  98. 98.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    @rikyrah: quite a few of accounts I follow on Twitter were RT’ing threads of reminders that the policing yesterday was 1) not the norm of how even most protests are policed 2) to note that this was a conscious policing choice which should be the norm 3) pointed out the primary difference was white women & why that matters etc. (I’m summarizing badly: here’s just one thread which really made clear points about how absolutely no arrests happened yesterday).

  100. 100.

    Grrljock

    @Major Major Major Major: I marched in Oakland (grittier and more authentic than SF!) with a group of parents and kids. i had to keep my calm as someone in the group blithely threw out the “the government is bad” as the answer to a kid asking why Trump is not in legal trouble. I pointed out that this is because Republicans control Congress, and the adult countered that (you know this is coming): both parties are bad because they are pro-corporate. Aaarrrrgggh. I was bothered enough that I woke up in the middle of the night just mulling that over in my mind.

  101. 101.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    IMO, the problem is that white people keep thinking they should be in charge of everything even though everything is fucked up and bullshit, and their proposed solutions would keep things that way. I may be extremely white, but I’m happy to take orders from women of color right now because they obviously have their heads on straight, unlike most white people.

    Give me a position, show me where the ammunition is.

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    We were at Disneyland. We probably had more fun.

    Not only did I get a lot of conspiratorial smiles for my pussyhat in Anaheim, but there seemed to be a LOT of women wearing Minnie Mouse ears on Saturday. Like, way more than usual. I’m not sure if it was confirmation bias or if there was some Disney fan protest support that I was unaware of.

  103. 103.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Grrljock: This framing bugs me so much, and it’s largely the media’s fault. When they say something like “Congress passed a law to lift corporate taxes” and then fail to note that all Democrats voted against it, it’s a huge problem. Or back during the mid-Obama years, when the Republicans were filibustering everything in sight and it was called a “Congress” problem.

    Dem’s aren’t perfect, but when you have the choice of a party with a few bad apples and a party made out of a leaking Superfund site, you go with the goddamned bad apples.

  105. 105.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    @Suzanne:

    Pantsuit Nation was also full of white women who didn’t want to hear anything less than New Agey upliftey shit, and got their feathers ruffled if black women didn’t sign on.

    Yeah, that’s part of the “feels” I was referring to. So many of them just wanted pats on the back for being “enlightened,” and didn’t seem too interested in much else — whether it was political action or honest self-assessment about how enlightened they really were.

  107. 107.

    Anne Laurie

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): There was a reason white “outside agitators” signed up to do voter registration in the Deep South back in the 1960s: because when white women & men were murdered by Klansman, that was a front-page news story.

    I doubt many of the people of color marching yesterday said to themselves, ‘Damn! If not for the white chicks, we’d get some righteous police brutality video for the social media!’ (Maybe some of the armchair male lefties sulking on the sidelines, though… )

    There’s been a lot of ‘well, white women voted for Trump’ apologia written since the results of the rigged election were tallied — most of it based on cherry-picked stats. The Marches were a much-needed corrective: No, we did not vote for the President-Asterisk, and we will not let you blandly assume that we must approve his actions now.

  108. 108.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): From the tweet thread I linked to.

    Respectability will not save us. Etiquette is largely about maintaining an unjust social order.

    Many of us are socialized to be more outraged at breaches of etiquette than breaches of justice.

  109. 109.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Major Major Major Major: Can’t disagree, given the context. But I see this a lot living in Sonoma, and it’s incredibly irritating. Most of it isn’t informed by old school lefties, just people who are pretty left but not politically involved at all.

    I suppose that’s what set me off.

  110. 110.

    FlipYrWhig

    I still can’t quite get over the reaction on the Eternally Peeved Left that goes something like, “Oh, sure, you managed to organize dozens of marches and rallies worldwide, dominated media coverage of a fascist’s first day in office, and gave millions of people hope and joy, but I heard about some people who were pouting, and have you thought about THEM yet?” Fuck that. The point is that people show up. Who gives a shit if they haven’t all perfectly worked out every last iota of perfect pluralistic belongingness in the process? No one else has either since the invention of democracy 2500 years ago.

  111. 111.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Mike J:

    I worked in marketing (for a software company) before I started programming. In fact, I started programming because I couldn’t get any of the programmers to do a few simple apps that we needed (on our state-of-the-art CP/M machines). So I harnessed the awesome power of dBASE II to do it myself. And a star was born!

  113. 113.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: You know, the main problem with Pantsuit Nation was (and is, to some degree) that it is purposefully insular.

    From what I saw, it was designed as a safe space for many women to voice their support of Hillary in a place where they wouldn’t be roundly attacked by a bunch of troglodytes and wannabe rapists, and women in especially conservative areas could keep their Hillary-support “secret”.

    That’s all well and good for morale purposes, but the exact opposite of something designed to actually expand your voting base and move them to action.

  114. 114.

    Mnemosyne

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    I would kinda sorta disagree with that, though. People are only primed to be outraged at breaches of etiquette by people of color. White people can breach etiquette all they want with no social opprobrium, particularly rich white people. Example A: the pussy-grabber in chief.

    At base, that’s what the whining about “political correctness” is: white people are no longer allowed to be publicly rude to non-whites.

  115. 115.

    cmorenc

    @Major Major Major Major:

    My lefty friends are already complaining that the women’s march was bad because pu$$yhats are trans-exclusionary and there were too many white people, so, yay lefties. Eyes on the prize.

    Is being “trans-exclusionary” like being a transvestite, only in the political rather than sexual realm? And they clothe themselves in lefty political rhetoric but their actions perversely facilitate righty electoral victories? Example: Jill Stein.

  117. 117.

    Grrljock

    @MisterForkbeard: Ha, I was definitely set off. The adult went on to say that what the US really needs is a third party that would somehow magically turn the country to a socialist paradise with healthcare for all, free college, and basic minimum income (well, ok, I added the last part). JFC. This is the attitude that blows Hillary’s “flaws” out of proportion so that they match Trump’s odious actions and lack of morality. Gah.

  118. 118.

    Mnemosyne

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    And one more point: these marches were much, much larger than any protests in the last 20 years, at least. Locally (in Los Angeles), they were bigger than the Iraq War protests at around 750,000 people. A few cops in riot gear are not going to be able to force a crowd that size to their will.

    So IMO the answer is that we need to continue to have marches so enormous that the usual head-breaking tactics won’t work, because it’s too dangerous for the cops to panic a crowd that size.

    ETA: To put it in perspective, the LAPD has a total of 9,000 sworn officers. That means that there were a little over 80 marchers per cop.

  119. 119.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    @Anne Laurie: It’s still “our” people who are the problem though. We’re going to have to put ourselves out there in between once again.

    My first thought after the election was that at least 30-35% of my fellow co-religionists voted for the cheeto, rather than being concerned about the return of actual fnucking NAZIS into positions of government. Concurrent with that thought (& by surprise finding out an old friend voted for that man), I realized I was more likely to find like-minded people simply talking to any random black person than white person who shared my cultural background.

    With those feelings in mind, I’m going to take it to heart that if my feminism isn’t intersectional, it’s not enough. So, I’m fired up after yesterday, but also ready to listen to as many black women as possible to teach/lead me where I should go.

    @Mnemosyne: Oh, that’s actually the next point in the tweet thread. I just didn’t quote it because the first two were enough to smack right upside my head. ?

  120. 120.

    Mnemosyne

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    No, I went and read most of the thread (I bailed when a forced birther troll started to hijack it). I really think the author underestimates the importance of safety in numbers. The police interacted peacefully with the protesters because they had no other reasonable choice that would not put the police themselves at risk.

    And, yes, it’s our responsibility as white people to keep showing up and provide that safety in numbers. If having a ton of white people show up keeps the cops calm and allows the non-white/non-straight/non-ablebodied protesters to march in safety, then we need to keep showing up.

  121. 121.

    Grrljock

    @efgoldman: Well, they had enough awareness to say that Jill Stein was a really bad candidate. So they probably marched against Trump and his values, and if I had to guess held their nose and voted for Hillary. I’m just so tired of the glib “pro-corporate” and “neo-liberal” epithets that CA liberals love to throw around.

  123. 123.

    Mnemosyne

    @SFBayAreaGal:

    Do you have a link? It’s an interesting coincidence, especially since I happen to know from multiple different sources that the official policy of the Giant Evil Corporation is Fuck Trump.

  124. 124.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    @Mnemosyne: Likely you’re very correct that numbers had something to do with LA. Better comparison(s) would be to D.C. which had protests on Friday & the March on Saturday & the National Guard out. Yes, there were a few black block activists out, but still different attire & attitudes etc. but I don’t remember whoes thread I read about the different policing strategies used in D.C. I’ll see if I can find that. (But it’ll probably be much later today now because I really must got to sleep ?)

  125. 125.

    Mnemosyne

    @SFBayAreaGal:

    I did a quick google and today (Sunday) was National Polka Dot Day, which they tied in with a “Rock the Dots” Minnie Mouse campaign. But it was Saturday when I saw the droves of Minnie ears.

    I may have to ask around — there are other people I know who are more tuned into the fan stuff than I am.

  126. 126.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @Major Major Major Major: Both seem like valid criticisms to me. Genitals=Gender is a framing that does alot of damage to Transgender people. I can understand them being a bit annoyed by all the displays reminding them of how they don’t fit into the Gender Binary world. So what if they raise that criticism? Maybe it’s something to think about going forward when trying to be inclusive of one of the most vulnerable groups in the country. I personally have also seen a fair amount of Black people asking “where were all of you for our BLM protests?” Again, seems like a completely valid question, no matter how much it might rain on our parade as White people. I didn’t see anyone angry about White people marching yesterday, it was anger at our not marching earlier. And the difference in policing tactics when protests are filled with mostly White vs. mostly Black people, seems pretty transparent. This is a central point to BlackLivesMatter so I can’t really blame them for pointing it out.

  129. 129.

    Darkrose

    @Petorado: Ironic, considering that the whole reason Hillary Clinton committed the greatest crime in American history by having a private email server was because she didn’t want to carry two phones.

  130. 130.

    Lurking Canadian

    @Uncle Ebeneezer: THIS. For more than a year, the epithet “purity pony” was reserved for “Bernfeelers” who “didn’t care” about social justice issues and whose essential racism was evident by the overwhelming whiteness of their events and their lack of concern for intersectionality.

    Now, we are excoriating as “purity ponies” the people who are complaining about…the essential whiteness of a protest march and a lack of concern for intersectionality?

    And somehow, both groups (not enough intersectionality! Too much intersectionality!) of purity ponies are the same kids who weren’t spanked enough? They probably even got participation trophies for meaningless soccer games when they were six years old, too!

    I am increasingly convinced that a “purity pony” is just somebody who cares deeply about an issue you don’t think is important.

  132. 132.

    SWMBO

    Dead thread but whatevs.
    I have an autistic son who is 36 years old. We all went to see Hidden Figures last night and I’m having to explain cultural shifts over time. Why there were colored fountains and bathrooms and why the math whiz had to run a half mile to find a colored bathroom when she needed to pee.
    Teaching him about this and the marches brings back how hard it is for him to assimilate social norms.
    He was nonverbal until he was 4 years old. He was in speech therapy just trying to learn to make the sounds. And it was one step forward and two steps back, if we were lucky. Some of the time, the “normal” therapies didn’t work with him. Then it was come up with something that worked even if it had never been tried.
    There were days and weeks of going over the same thing again and again, just trying to get something through that would stick. It was a long patient slog just to get him to something approaching normal. There were days I cried and felt like a failure. There were days I cried and felt like he was a failure. I have been through all the stages of grief so many times and sometimes all at the same time.
    My point is that anything worthwhile is worth the fight. Yes there are setbacks. New trails to blaze because the old ones are overgrown. Feeling overwhelmed and frustrated because nothing seems to work. But-guess what!- sometimes it works. Sometimes it comes together and you win against the disability. He gets better and you know it was worth the fight.
    Same with politics. Not every day is going to be a win. Not every day is going to be a failure. It is what it is. Take what you have and do the best you can with it. One step forward and two steps back. Whether you realize it or not, you may be dancing. The only ones who can stop us is us. We can do this dance. We have had a win this weekend after the inauguration. Now we organize, plan our next moves and dance. And as the late great Molly Ivins used to say, “Lawd, remember to have some fun.”

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