So since I moved here, I have had a problem with a stealth shitter crapping on the hardwood floors. I was absolutely convinced it was Thurston, because I have caught him get excited and piss before. Rosie was my second thought because her hips hurt and she sometimes does not want to walk outside. But I couldn’t know for sure, and since I free feed the dogs, I couldn’t put different colored crayon shavings in the food for each dog and identify it that way, as one of you suggested.
So I bought a cheap surveillance camera, hooked it up to my wifi and set it up to send me push alerts whenever it detected motion. And just a few minutes ago, I caught the perpetrator red-pawed:
So now I get to teach an old dog a new trick.
Teddys Person
Say it ain’t so Lilly.
Jay Noble
awwww
Baud
I bet Lily wiretapped Trump too.
columbusqueen
Well, damn. Lily, you bad, bad girl. But knowing John, is she really going to pay for this?
Sandia Blanca
That made me chuckle! She doesn’t look THAT ashamed.
Kathmandu513
Not Miss Lily!
zhena gogolia
Poor sweetie. I wonder if she’s stressed by moving.
Mnemosyne
Somebody is not happy about the move, I guess.
Also, I am commenting courtesy of Disneyworld’s free wi-fi. We’re waiting to get on the Dumbo ride, where they give you a pager and put you in an indoor playground to wait. Yes, there are clown pictures.
Aleta
@zhena gogolia: yeah. Everything she had memorized is out of place and it’s hard to navigate.
Singing Truth to Power
I bet Rosie told her it would be ok –
Kay (not the front pager)
I probably should have commented in that thread. In my experience, the most human-bonded, affectionate pet, dog or cat, is the one most upset by new surroundings. She’s probably suffering from anxiety. I had this problem with one of our cats, and we finally solved it with kitty prozac. The other thing you might want to do is have her checked out for a health issue. Obviously, that will come first, before any anti-anxiety medication.
I hope you get her problem, whatever it is, resolved quickly. It’s really hard on a relationship between human & pet.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
Have you called Children’s Protective Services?
Major Major Major Major
D’awwwww always good to see Lily, even under these circumstances.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
How is your knee?
p.a.
Lily: “Did you even think to consult with me before this move??!! Alpha male my ass.”
SiubhanDuinne
@Mnemosyne:
Please don’t tell Omnes or Miss Bianca. I don’t react as violently as they do, and mostly I adore Dumbo, but damn, those clowns freak me right the fuck out.
schrodingers_cat
Lily and Steve are expressing their feelings about the move. Do. Not. Want. Take us back. This new place smells weird.
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodingers_cat:
I think John should have done a smudging-cleansing ceremony before he moved in. It’s probably not too late even now, but Lily and Steve may require a bit of retraining. (I don’t even want to speculate about Rosie and Thurston.)
humboldtblue
@schrodingers_cat:
Yup.
New joint don’t smell the same, can’t piss in a familiar spot and it smells funny. Did I mention it doesn’t smell like home?
Anne Laurie
@zhena gogolia:
See, this is part of the reason why small dogs are notoriously hard to housebreak… nobody says “poor sweetie” when the 80lb retriever shits on the hardwood floor…
I live with a 15lb rescue who’s an inveterate stealth indoor pisser — it took me a full year to retrain him into shitting outside, mostly, unless the weather’s particularly bad or he’s feeling really stressed. And a significant part of the problem is that the Spousal Unit, who brought the little bastid into our house in the first place without asking, thinks Poor Little Sydney can’t help but ‘mark’ every surface he can reach, because he’s so highly strung. Not as highly as I’d like to string both of them, after I’ve had to break out the enzyme cleaners yet again…
P.S. from Lily: John doesn’t yell at those two nearly often enough, anyways!
JPL
I have another theory.. Lily knows she can do no wrong, so why not. Of course, she didn’t know the dog boss would put up cameras.
TheMightyTrowel
Hey since this is a pet thread I have a question about dogs. I’m a cat person, but I’m reading a book in which the care of a jointly owned dog is a key feature and there’s a lot of talk about the dog’s crate. I realised reading this book that I’ve never met a non-American who crates their dogs, but I’ve met a lot of Americans who do. What is up with that? I mean, why do people do the crate training thing? Is it good practice? If so, why don’t non-Americans do it too?
WaterGirl
Just look at that face. I hope you’ve already forgive Lily. She loves you so much.
monoglot
Vet visit time.
When my brother’s older dog began to pee inside, a vet suggested a different food. I thought he was crazy, but within a couple of months of the new–not even prescription food–the inside peeing stopped.
Otherwise, yes, retraining (yourself as much as the Lil).
Greenergood
Oh poor Lily – be merciful, John, because she’s a lovely old soul, and old pets test us in ways that are different from the ways that humans (esp. old humans) test us ..
JPL
@TheMightyTrowel: I’m not sure that I can answer, because until my last mutt, I never used a crate. Finch was used to sleeping in a secure area, so I purchased a crate. He likes it. It’s his dog house. I don’t shut the door of the crate, and have comfy blankets for him to sleep on.
WaterGirl
P.S. Lily has rolled with everything you’ve thrown at her, new dogs, new cats, puppies, pups that were in her pack and then left. Clearly this move was a bridge too far. Or maybe the lady friend pushed her over the edge. She’s been #1 for forever, no matter who was added to her household.
And Cole, when was the last time you did your morning routine with Lily? Who’s the best doggie? Who’s the best doggie? It may seem counterintuitive, but I think she needs lots of love and snuggles instead of getting mad at her.
The shaming photo is adorable, however.
JPL
@WaterGirl: lol She has him wrapped around her paw. I hope you have time to comment more, btw.
hovercraft
Aww, look at that face, this is your fault, forcing her into a big beautiful home, apologize now and she’ll stop doing it. Just say you’re sorry John.
@Mnemosyne:
How’s the knee holding up?
greennotGreen
@TheMightyTrowel: I always thought crate training was cruel, used by people who cared more about their carpet than they did a living, breathing creature. But then I started feeding my many dogs in crates because some have meds, some have special diets, and some would eat their own and everyone else’s food if given the chance. So now that crates are always out, sometimes I find a dog in there just snoozing.
Dogs live in dens. They like enclosed spaces where they feel secure. I probably should have crate trained each of mine as they came into my household; then I wouldn’t have so much mopping to do.
WaterGirl
@JPL: Thank you! The 70-80 hour weeks are now over. Now the agreement with the new client is that when I hit 40 hours in one week, I just stop. So I get my life back, just like that! :-)
rikyrah
Not Lily…
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Glad the mystery is solved.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
So, I’m headed to Michigan in a couple of weeks to watch the IIHF Women’s World Championships (it’s also a chance to spend time with my parents). Unfortunately, Team USA may not be making the same trip USA Hockey, at least on the women’s side, is run by complete clowns, and I know from talking with the parents of a couple of players that there’s more going on here than just a wage dispute. Hockey USA has said that they will field a team regardless, presumably scrounging up some other college players who agree to go, but, if there is no settlement, I’ll be boycotting the Team USA games.
Enjoy your gold medal, Canada.
Baud
@WaterGirl: Yay, you negotiated a Balloon Juice clause!
Patricia Kayden
@Mnemosyne: Clown pictures? Can you never escape Trump?
Nicole
@TheMightyTrowel: It’s something that’s come about over the last decade or so- when I was growing up in the 1970s-1980s, no one I knew crated a dog. No one cleaned up after their dogs poop, either, but that’s a whole ‘nother thing.
I think the theory behind crating a dog is that they feel safer in a small area. Dogs get accused of “punishing” their owners when the owner is out of the house and the dog chews up shoes, wallpaper, poops, etc., but it’s not maliciousness; it’s anxiety. So by crating them, they’re in a small space where they feel safe, and, also, can’t do any destructive behaviors on the home. Dogs sleep a lot of the time, anyway, so as long as they’re not being left in there for most of the day, they’re usually fine.
And it varies dog to dog. Ours is a regular Nervous Nelly about a lot of things, but she’s not destructive when we’re out of the apartment, so we don’t crate her when we’re gone. She has access to her crate and often sleeps in there during the day, but we only lock her in when someone afraid of dogs comes to visit (she’s frantic for human attention and likes to climb into the laps of visitors). But my beloved schnauzer from the 1970s-1980s would probably have been better off being crated when we were out, as many of my childhood toys could attest to.
Now, keeping our current dog off the couch, that’s a different story, filled with failure. ;)
Barbara
@Kay (not the front pager): My dog “best friend” always became anxious with moving and chewed the furniture. I changed our routine so that I walked and played with him before leaving for any length of time and that worked wonders.
burnspbesq
Guardian is live-blogging the Dutch election. Looks like big sigh of relief is the order of the day.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I had to… I missed everyone!
It was a long 3 months of crazy hours, but in 3 more weeks my new porch will be completely paid off.
Nicole
John I second (and third) those who suggest a trip to the vet. I don’t think it’s anything serious, but she’s getting older and maybe needs a different diet, or scheduled meals. Our rescue pooch out of nowhere started pooping on the hardwood floor while we were asleep and for us the solution was moving her dinner two hours later so it didn’t have enough time to get through her system before morning.
Baud
@WaterGirl: Good, cuz we missed you.
schrodingers_cat
A judge in Hawaii has blocked Travel Ban 2.0
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodingers_cat:
Yay!!
Pogonip
@SiubhanDuinne: Do you really think smudging and cleaning the dog will help??
Mike J
Shitty workplaces are shitty because the people in charge want them to be shitty.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-white-house-paranoia-236069
Another Scott
I agree that’s it’s probably still getting used to the new surroundings and the stress of not being “home”.
But, doggies have very, very sensitive noses, also too. Does it happen in a particular room? Does it match up with a particularly bad pre-renovation area?
Did your pack meet Walter? If so, did they get along OK? Or was there any stressful interaction there? Although it might seem unlikely to us,
theyshe might still smell him and might not like being in his territory.Our Sophie gets along with all kinds of dogs when she’s at “playtime” at Dogtopia. But she’s very protective and ferocious if Odin, halfway down the block, comes anywhere near our yard. She has arguments with him in the morning – barking and waiting for him to bark back. No telling how she’d react if he were actually in her house!!
Just throwing this stuff out there. Doggies can be complex sometimes. There could be lots of possibilities. I hope you get it figured out so that she doesn’t feel the need to act out this way any more.
Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who has a neighbor whose previous old 70# female dog would crap on his pillow when she was upset with him, so count your blessings!)
Aleta
Has Thurston’s behavior changed with the move, affecting her some way, maybe when she’s in the yard. Or would she feel the yard is not safe territory yet for her to mark? Or is her vision or brain foggy, so the number of new routes are intimidating.
sempronia
can we have post-groomer Steve pics?
debit
I was so sure it was Thurston. Poor Lily. Chloe used to poop indoors, but only because she had a thing where she wouldn’t do anything until she ate her breakfast. I’d let her out, and she’d cry at the door and scamper around the step until I let her back in. Once I made her stay out there for a half an hour. But no, she held it until after she ate. And sometimes while she was eating.
I love small, quirky dogs but never again. Give me a big old lab any day.
Ruckus
@TheMightyTrowel:
I bought a crate to take home my rescue cocker because I didn’t have a clue if he like/hated car rides and at the time I owned a cargo van. Lots of room for a dog to get into trouble while I’m driving. Put it in the van, the dog jumped in and walked right into the crate. After that I went in a storage area, a nice quiet dark place. When he wanted space he go there and walk into the crate and sleep. The theory is that it is a quiet space that belongs to them alone. I have no idea why or if other countries don’t use crates. It may be that in a lot of places it’s just one more thing to take up space that is rare or being used.
Pogonip
@TheMightyTrowel: It allows people who do not have a yard, and who are gone for hours and hours every day, to have a dog, if they are willing to put their selfish desires ahead of the animal’s welfare. Before imprisoning the poor critter in a crate for a straight 14 hours became acceptable, such people would just think, “Darn, my schedule doesn’t allow for proper care of a dog” and go get a cat.
Dog crates do have legitimate uses, but routine lengthy confinement is not one of them. Routine lengthy confinement and the number of dog shrinks have risen in tandem. I think this is unlikely to be coincidental. (Before dog imprisonment became socially acceptable dog shrinks were almost unheard of.)
Paula
Well, now at least you know. Good luck! You’ll get it resolved.
schrodingers_cat
@sempronia: Steve is probably hiding.
Pogonip
@TheMightyTrowel: Ruckus just cited a legitimate use of a dog crate.
Baud
My dogs always detested crates.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
Someone here commented that his cat had pulled back the covers, taken a shit and pulled the covers back over it, so it was only found when the owner went to bed. He said he was pissed off but had to admire the thought process of the cat and If I remember correctly had to keep from laughing about it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat: I’m sure the Dolt 45 will sign an EO banning Hawaiians.
Ian
@Mike J:
Good. Fuck them for being amoral assholes who would work for such a man.
Pogonip
I don’t understand why Cole has such trouble housebreaking his dogs. He’s been complaining about someone or other pooping on the floor ever since he began collecting them (dogs, not poops). Before the floors are ruined, he might want to consider having a dog trainer look at the situation.
James Hare
But when does John begin to wonder how much Lily has been getting away with over the years since she looks sweet and innocent?
schrodingers_cat
@?BillinGlendaleCA: And blame Obama!
JPL
@Pogonip: I think that’s unfair. As I pointed out earlier, Finch uses the crate as his bed with the door open. I also know about a mutt that was extremely destructive when the owners were away. He was returned several times to animal shelters. My sister-in-law finally adopted him, and after several cushions being torn, and ready to return him, I suggested a crate. Guess what, he’s pretty happy in his forever home. Sometimes dogs just need a safe space.
also.. they can be misused, but often they are not.. just sayin
PaulW
it had to be somebody feeling uncomfortable in a new home. no matter how they behaved on the outside, inwardly they were saying “why did you move us, Hooman?”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat: Of course, that’s SOP.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: You have dogs? I always pictured you as a kitteh purrson.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Oh, good, I was afraid you might have forgotten me! :-)
Mary G
The prefinished hardwood floors are a lot easier to clean than the carpet you had in your rental, no? Poor little Lily, don’t yell at her. Those eyes would make me forgive a lot.
SFBayAreaGal
@SiubhanDuinne: I used to like clowns, then I saw the clown in Poltergeist.
Ruckus
@Pogonip:
I lived and worked in the same place and the dog was with me all the time except when I went to the store. And I never closed the door to the crate, which is what I think a lot of people do. It was just his space, and he only went there on his own. Otherwise he followed me from room to room even if he could see me from the room I just came from. He’d even wake up from a sound sleep and follow me around. He never slept at night in the crate, only occasionally during the day.
I agree about the pet thing, if you can’t be assed to take care of them and have to just leave them alone for the entire day, I think you shouldn’t have a dog or even a cat. Fish are no problem.
trollhattan
“I apologize if anyone took offense at my understandable defecation on any floor surface, be it comfy rug or un-asked for polished wood.”
#LilyisaRepublicanNow
Pogonip
@Ruckus: In “Secrets of the Cat,” (highly recommended), Barbara Holland tells the story of a scrupulous litter-box user who jumped into the sink and peed on the carrots Barbara was peeling. Barbara pursues the fleeing cat–to the overflowing litter box, which she had forgotten to clean out. She wrote, and I agree, that the cat had reasoned out a way to get her to come to the box and see she had forgotten it.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: We missed you.
Has anyone heard from Purplegirl in NYC? She hasn’t commented in a while.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Too late.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Dog person.
@WaterGirl: Hardly. But I’m used to you taking breaks from this place.
WaterGirl
@James Hare: How dare you besmirch Lily’s good name! Pistols at dawn!
WaterGirl
@Baud: My life has to get pretty crazy for me to go away. Working this much has been tiring and stressful, but it’s better than when the tree fell on my house. In any case, I am glad to be back.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud:
On Tunchblog? Blasphemy! Prepare to lose the important crazy cat lady vote.
Ruckus
@Ian:
You do know there are a lot of people who work in the white house, who take care of the place. They work for the white house not really the president. Presidents come and go and they don’t. How do you know that it’s not permanent staff that thinks it’s a hostile place?
artem1s
@TheMightyTrowel: I had a great dog who was terrified of thunderstorms. He could hear them coming hours before I could. They would really send him into a panic. Constant whining, pacing, peeing on the floor. Nothing seemed to help him. No amount of reassurances or petting helped. then I started to cage him during the day because he was having some separation anxiety issues while I was at work. He didn’t like it at first but after a few weeks was pretty good about it. Then one night when he was having a particularly bad episode during a storm, I tried putting him in the cage. It was almost miraculous. He settled right in and went to sleep. Never had an issue with him after that. It was obvious the small space made him feel safer.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I thought crazy cat ladies voted Green.
MomSense
Awww poor Lily. I trust you will figure out how to help her, Cole. She really is the sweetest girl.
Pogonip
@JPL: Oh, yes, there are legitimate crate uses, and certainly even lengthy crating is better than death. My beef is with owners who keep the poor beast locked in a crate for 10 or more hours a day because they’re too lazy or selfish to rearrange their lives to accommodate the needs of the dog THEY WENT OUT AND GOT. The owners who tell you it’s OK because the dog has a denning instinct. Well, I had an instinct to reproduce, but that didn’t mean I wanted to spend 10+ hours a day, five days a week, flat on my back with my legs spread out.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Not the ones that read Balloon Juice!
Ruckus
@Pogonip:
Cats will do that. You don’t do your job and clean out the toilet when necessary they are going to get even. Boy are they going to get even. And depending on the cat they may have a bit of shitbox rage and even go a little overboard. Usually in ways that you don’t find out about until you least expect it.
Pogonip
@artem1s: Another legitimate crate use where it really is a nice safe den.
You know that trick where you play recordings of thunderstorms for puppies born in late fall through midwinter? That never worked for us. When the real storms came, some pups were scared, some not, much as it had always been.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I didn’t think any of the ladies of Balloon Juice were crazy.
Ruckus
@Pogonip:
There are limits to almost everything. Even the good stuff. Sometimes especially the good stuff. Like ice cream, cookies, whiskey………….etc, etc. .
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Well played, but you forgot toco loco.
Pogonip
@WaterGirl: Er, shouldn’t that be PEEstols?
Anne Laurie
@Pogonip:
… because dogs that “made trouble” got euthanized, frequently on the advice of the helpful local veterinarian. Lots more dogs out there, why waste time with a defective model!
Crate training, like so much of modern dog-owning practice, is a result of people deciding that dogs are not fungible. So are “dog shrinks”. We’ve decided, as a society, that it makes more sense to try and fix our pet’s problems than to discard that pet and start over. I consider this a net social positive, myself.
(For one thing, it’s correlated to the way “we’ve” decided that kids with special needs deserve to be accommodated, not warehoused. Of course kids have a higher social utility than pets, but the metric for Is this annoyingly non-standard being worth the trouble of caring for? seems to overlap.)
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: We are all mad here.
Pogonip
@Ruckus: I know Siamese cats don’t like being alone. Had a neighbor who was gone a lot and his Siamese would come and visit, via his cat door, when he was lonesome. He’d socialize with the neighborhood, people and pets, every day until the owner came back.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
आप पागल हैं लेकिन बुद्धिमान हैं
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I was quoting the Cheshire cat from Alice in Wonderland.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
आप भी बहुत साक्षर हैं
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: शुक्रिया
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
देय नाडा
BruceJ
Be aware that that “cheap wifi camera” is riddled with flaws making it eminently hackable to do Bad Things.
Check the linky to see if yours is on the list. It was things like these cameras that did stuff like hit Krebs on Security with the (then) biggest DDOS ever.
And Lily getting anything but a mild scolding has higher odds than Trump actually taking a vow of poverty.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: @Baud: इसे रोको, आप दो
BruceJ
@Pogonip: A friend’s Siamese cat would disappear for days on end. She found him at a neighbor’s house. Neighbor thought he ‘wasn’t getting fed’ (Zonker was practically waddling by then!)…Zonker was also a dead ringer for the cat in ‘Get Fuzzy’ down to the one fang. (H’ed broken the other off doing something zonker-ish when hopped up on catnip when he was young….there was a reason the cat was named ‘Zonker’ :-)
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: What language is that? It doesn’t make any sense.
@Omnes Omnibus: ठीक है (Okay)
Anne Laurie
@TheMightyTrowel:
To expand on what has already been said: Forty years ago, it was common practice to leave a dog outside all day — ‘careful’ owners kept them tied up or in a fenced yard, rather than letting the dog roam where it would. And in many families, there was somebody at home for all or part of the day; if Mom wasn’t there to let the dog out at lunch, the kids came home in the early afternoon. Now both parents work, the kids are booked up with sports & other activities until after dark, and everybody has a longer commute. At the same time, the rules about dogs running free or being left outside have gotten much tighter; your neighbors will complain and the cops will give you a ticket (or take the dog away) if it paces the fenceline and howls for hours on end.
Dogs are attractive to people (it’s what they’ve evolved for!) and Americans consider ourselves Problem Solvers. We don’t want to give up the pleasure of owning dogs, so we find work-arounds like doggie day care, professional dog walkers… and crate training.
Nicole
@Anne Laurie: I might also add that I think we know more about animal behavior now than forty years ago. About 15 years ago, when I worked at a zoo, I was flabbergasted at how willing the polar bears were to go in to their nighttime holding areas at the end of the day, seeing as how their nighttime holding areas were just large cages while their exhibit had a big pool and room to wander and toys, blah blah blah. When I commented on it, one of the zookeepers told me that even big predators like polar bears fear things and being in a smaller space to sleep makes them feel safer, and lets them sleep more deeply than out in the open.
Needless to say, on the occasional evenings when the bears wouldn’t gate, they were left out in the exhibit for the night. You cannot make a polar bear do something it does not want to do. ;)
SiubhanDuinne
@SFBayAreaGal:
That was a terrifying clown!
Pogonip
@Nicole: Not even if you have embarrassing pictures of him + the negatives?
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hey, I tried.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Nice recovery!
? ? ?
Chris
Ha, called it!! Knew it was her. Such a sensitive sweetheart….too many changes in a short period of time. She’ll be ok though. Ugh, look at that face… how could you be mad at her?
Yarrow
Awww…Lily. She’s my favorite. Poor girl. Probably still adjusting to the new home. Moving is stressful!
Yarrow
@WaterGirl:
I think this is a big part of it. Lily needs to know she’s still John’s favorite.
ABCConcepts
@SiubhanDuinne: Definitely not too late and I 100% agree with you!
catclub
@Nicole:
It is hard enough to push a cat.
Duane
Arkansas intends to kill eight people this month
khead
This may be my favorite Balloon Juice post ever. Really. The story of Cole hooking up a camera to catch the dog pooping.
SWMBO
@khead: And not getting electrocuted or falling and killing himself on the wires. The dog poop was a bonus.
thalarctosMaritimus
@schrodingers_cat: स्पेनिश, मुझे विश्वास है
Tim in SF
More like “brown pawed.”
Pogonip
@khead: Balloon Juice: come for the useful information, stay for the dog poop!
Stardus614
She’s just trying to make a house a home. “Ahhh, now it smells right!” Much better.
Eadgyth
I know many or even most crate users use them properly and take care of their dogs beautifully. However I have already indirectly met 2 people (friends of friends) who crated their dog while they were at work, took the dog out for half hour after work, put them back in and went out with friends, took the dog out for another half hour, and put them back in while they slept. Routinely had the dogs in there 20+ hours a day.
Just because of these 2 I wish we could get crates banned. I don’t care how much good they do when they can be a device for such cruelty.
vickie feminist
Lily has more Beagle in her than we realized. Beagles are terribly hard/impossible to house break. We thought it was us and that she was a rescue, etc. etc. etc. Then a long-time Beagle owner wrote a piece for the NY TImes last year saying Beagles don’t believe in being house broken. So our very smart, devoted Beagle (AKA Cordelia Chase) sees outdoors as optional. Lily is just in sync with her heritage and also has a huge following.
SWMBO
@Eadgyth: A different point of view. We acquired 3 brothers at 10 weeks old. When we left them, someone started chewing. Electrical cords with the fan running. Stuff like that. Crating them meant not coming home to dead pups. Admittedly we didn’t crate them for 20+hours a day but it kept them safe while they weren’t supervised. Like most things, it depends on how you use it.