From the New York Times opinion page, right now:
The notion that Erick son of Erick finding the level of racism and hatred that’s too much even for him, and some navel gazing by Frank Bruni, are two of the most important opinions that need to be voiced at this moment in our country’s history shows how deeply the Times doesn’t get it.
It’s been clear for a while that the Post is now the paper of record when it comes to the Trump Administration, but even their usually awful opinion page has been much better than the Times’.
Keith P.
“Erick-Woods Erickson”…Yeah, no one’s gonna call him “Eldrick Eldrickson” or anything like that.
efgoldman
Ewick is always wong. Period, end of story.
Bruni. and the whole op ed page, has a picture next to “white privilege” in the dictionary.
Christ what assholes.
Hunter Gathers
Whitesplaining 101
A Ghost to Most
FTFNYT. That is all. Now back to WaPo.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
NYT almost as great a threat to our country as actual Nazis.
James Powell
Stealing a bit from the late, great Steve Gilliard:
Fuck the fucking New York Times!
Mike in NC
Waiting for Maureen Dowd and Ross Douthat to chime in with their own deep thoughts…
different-church-lady
Yeah, well the WP let Freddie dB do an absurdly timed OpEd about how we’re being unfair to conservative tech bros, so hold your applause until all the names have been read.
Elie
Brunis column was already in print when Charlottesville happened. I know we are all angry but not everything w NYT is evil. I prefer the Wapo but I read broadly.
Lyrebird
Since this fellow keeps talking as well, maybe I’ll help him out a little:
Ahem, who “built” the homeland? Neither the Virginian nor the Massachusetts settlers from Europe woulda lived to procreate without others saving them! And Crispus Attucks and every enslaved African go on the list… Where are their statues?
ETA: sorry not to link, can’t add in edit mode… I’m quoting the rawstory article about Peter Cvjetanovic and his regrets
SiubhanDuinne
@Keith P.:
Yeah, have noticed just recently that he’s started using that new nomenclature.
Can we all say “pretentious,” boys and girls?
ETA: I could tolerate Erick “Woods-Erickson.” It’s the “Erick-Woods” Erickson that makes Tonstant Weader want to Fwow Up.
JMG
Why the Post hasn’t snaffled up Krugman, who’s made his unhappiness with the rest of the Times op-ed section as clear as the paper’s policy allows (he’s murdered Brooks), I’ll never know. That’s probably 100K subscriptions crossing over right there.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
If there’s one thing I can take heart in today, it’s that my state of Virginia has made me proud. Those shitbags were mostly from out of state. The nazis had to import racist assholes into Virginia to piss and moan about taking down a statue of Lee. Many, maybe most, of the antiracist protesters were home grown. And I think McAulliffe’s words were spot on. I’m proud of my state today.
dmsilev
@SiubhanDuinne: Maybe he thinks that putting on that middle name is like Superman putting on a pair of glasses; nobody will notice that he’s the same guy who who has said a whole long litany of things only marginally less offensive than the Neo-Nazis.
Baud
Bruni’s problem is not his race.
JPL
Pence the biggest bigot of all sees the writing on the wall and said
He definitely wants to be pres.
help us all
Mnemosyne
I was wandering through Cole’s tweets and one of them was from a professor who once did a class in the history of collective racial violence in America.
He only did the class once because it was too psychologically difficult for both himself and his students to confront the whole history in a single semester.
Baud
@Mnemosyne:
I’d imagine, given the many sides involved.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Mnemosyne: Speaking of which this was posted at LGM the other.
Mnemosyne
@Elie:
If Bruni takes this opportunity to go, Wow, now I understand why people are saying my column was short-sighted — sorry for the bad coincidence, he may be able to sneak by.
If he continues to claim that the problem is that white men are being marginalized, then he deserves everything that will come to him.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
O/T I was out all day but I went back to the beach read thread and responded to you.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
Have you ever seen the Alain Resnais documentary Night and Fog? I saw it once, twenty years ago, for a class, and I still occasionally see images from it in my dreams.
The people in that class were looking at similar images and stories of violent mass murder every week.
So, no, I don’t blame the instructor for deciding that it was too relentless to be a single class.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: I haven’t seen it.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
There. ::dusts hands and walks off::
SiubhanDuinne
@Mnemosyne:
I had an insane dream last night/this morning, and I really wish I had someone in my life to help me interpret it. Has been troubling me all day.
chigail
@James Powell: aw geez. I really miss him too,
Mnemosyne
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
A connection I had not quite made until I saw a museum exhibition about the Civil War and the settlement of the West: the majority of Native Americans in California died not as a result of the Spanish mission system, but because of the discovery of gold and the subsequent genocides perpetrated by the miners and other white settlers.
Pooh
In fairness, Bruni claims his was written before this weekend, which makes me question the editorial judgment in not spiking it, either on his part or the Times.
Mnemosyne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Don’t look at me, I’m terrible at dream interpretation. ? Maybe put it in the writers’ thread and we can make stuff up?
@MomSense:
I’ll go take a look — thanks!
enplaned
The NYTimes is complicit in the disaster of election 2016. They were among those who did not take the Trump threat seriously, and therefore deemed it more important to take down Hillary rather than do their fucking job and tell the US the true nature of Donald Trump.
Has any NYT or former NYT minion yet admitted their culpability?
HinTN
@Baud: AMEN to that.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ve been having bad dreams lately. I don’t try to interpret them though.
A Ghost to Most
@Elie:
There are many more or less reliable sources. FTFNYT is not among them for me. YMMV.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mnemosyne:
Thanks, I mostly try not to impose my dreams on people I don’t pay to give me their opinions.
If it’s still bothering me in a week, I might share on the writers’ thread. Otherwise, no, I’ll just go quietly insane all by myself.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
I have bad dreams all the time. This one wasn’t BAD, as in nightmarish, it was just crazy and weird and puzzling and disturbing.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
Criteron has a good essay about it. It’s hard to believe the running time is so short for a film that powerful.
Agorabum
His column is nothing but a bunch of navel-gazing and complaining that somewhere someone online criticized to him because he was white. The overall sentiment expressed that people are more than their identities please Bland and non-controversial. The way that he presents it is the exact opposite of helpful. You can absolutely be white and have something to say. The tragedy is not that he is white it is that what he says is so worthless
Cheryl Rofer
All right, mistermix! You have made me read the Frank Bruni column, and you will pay!
I read the Erick son of Erick piece earlier today. It’s not bad, although yes, we probably don’t need to hear from the differently-hyphenated right now.
The mistake Bruni makes is the false dichotomy. Either you are in favor of logical discussion, or you bring privilege into it, in which case logical discussion ceases. There seems to be an on-off switch in some white men’s minds that says that it is not possible logically to discuss identity and its effects on discussion. That is indeed a meta-discussion, and I can see how it can upset some discussions, and it obviously upsets some people a lot. But thinking is changing (I thought this was what pundits were supposed to be aware of), and sometimes the statement of something from the white cishet male point of view just sounds ridiculous. If you want a logical discussion, that needs to be pointed out.
I think that sometimes the pointing-out is done less than respectfully. I know that I have become impatient at times. That makes it easy for the holder of the white cishet male point of view to bring their own stereotypes into the discussion: too emotional! Illogical!
I’ve done this with magazine editors. I’ve talked to others who have experienced it. There’s no simple answer other than getting someone else in if you want a viewpoint other than the white cishet male one.
ETA: Yeah, I know Bruni is gay, but he is espousing the white cishet male viewpoint in this piece. Also, too, he is saying that his gay identity counts, as if it were a matter of adding up points.
MomSense
@SiubhanDuinne:
Maybe you know what it means but it scares you. If that’s the case, drive to a secluded place, preferably with trees and nature) and just tell the trees.
JanieM
@SiubhanDuinne: Shared with seventeen grains of salt … I once did some workshops that included dream work. One of the ideas I came away with was to note the moment in the dream when you wake up — if indeed you wake up as it is ongoing — and think about whether that translates to something in your life that it might be a good idea to wake up to.
I think that only pushes the question another layer down, but maybe it will provide a hook to grab onto.
End of mixed metaphors. Good luck, though!
Baud
@Mnemosyne: Thanks. I appreciate it.
Tom Q
@enplaned: Quite the opposite. They’re at the forefront of “Hillary has no one but herself to blame/she ran the worst campaign ever” (a sentiment oddly not heard prior to October 28th, when she was leading polls by 6-10 points).
SiubhanDuinne
@JanieM:
Thanks, helpful suggestion. I’ve done a lot of dream work and dream journaling in the past, but have rather fallen out of the habit recently. I did do a narrative of this one though, in case I need it for future reference.
(FWIW, and this is probably WAY TMI, but I would say about 97% of my dreams these days end with my looking for a toilet, whether in a multi-storeyed office building or a hotel or apartment or home or sports arena or whatever, doesn’t matter — the point is, my bladder tells me it’s time to wake up, and does so in the most dramatic and complicated way! I’m used to those dreams, and I just chuckle at the infinite variety of ways my subconscious informs me I need to get up and go pee. It’s these rare non-urinary dreams that have me end up scratching my head and wondering “What the everloving fuck was THAT all about?”)
karensky
@Baud: yah, it is the mansplaining jawn
Ladyraxterinok
@enplaned: Have they ever really owned up to thetr part in the Iraq disaster? New saying ‘Being the NYT means never having to say you’re sorry!!’
Diana
@Cheryl Rofer: I hear you, but when I read the column, it seemed to me that Bruni was “whitesplaining” that growing up he knew he’d never be allowed to marry or have a family or live in any place other than a “gay” neighborhood.
That’s not really about adding up points, is it?
SiubhanDuinne
@MomSense:
❤️?❤️?❤️
efgoldman
@Ladyraxterinok:
Hell, they barely owned up to it when they had reporters making up stories, never mind being wrong, wrong wrong on the major story of a decade.
Suzanne
I’m desperately enjoying this Twitter thread mocking that fucker who calls himself a “comedian” bakedalaska. The little snowflake probably got permanent eye damage and is asking for thoughts and prayers!
And in further enraging news, the Nazi website dailystormer is referring to the victim of yesterday’s terrorism as “a fat, childless slut”.
Nazi punching: let’s do it.
Joy in FL
@Mnemosyne: Night and Fog was part of the 8th grade language arts curriculum when I was a new teacher in the early 80s. I watched that movie 6 times in one day (it was a 6 period school day.) I was devastated at the end of that day. I cannot imagine something like that week after week for a whole semester.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne:
My blood pressure just hit supernova when I read that.
efgoldman
@SiubhanDuinne:
They’re just taking a page from the handbook of their gawd, limpballs.
Suzanne
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m not posting a link. Fuck those people. No. Absolutely not.
Baud
@Suzanne: Sounds like liberals need another lecture in civility.
Suzanne
If you’re mad, send bakedalaska some thoughts and prayers!
The number of people praying that he is permanently blinded is making me laugh. He didn’t say what kind of prayers he wanted. #gottareadthefineprint #butyoucantcuzyoureyesarefedup #yourownfault
Dude is probably one of those fuckers who says things like, “I don’t see color”, so what does he need eyes for anyway?
JanieM
@SiubhanDuinne: I recorded my dreams for several years. The practice helped me remember more and more detail, until it got so I could have spent half the day writing them down. When it finally got too unwieldy, I quit doing it. But maybe it had served its purpose by then anyhow.
Bathroom and toilet dreams…….heh, I can relate. But that’s probably more than enough of that. ;-)
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady:
Faye Dunaway, is that you?
zhena gogolia
@enplaned:
No.
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah, this is basically my problem with the vast majority of conservative repudiations (be it this, or the repudiations of Trump back in 2016 before the election): none of them involve taking responsibility for what they’ve said or done in the past, or any real commitment to help roll things back.
Davebo
This weekend has just depressed the hell out of me. Should never have waded into the comments of right blogs.
Trump was right. There is literally nothing that these scumbags won’t forgive/justify.
chris
Mike Godwin, creator of The Law, weighs in:
Laura
@James Powell: Stealing a bit from the late, great Steve Gilliard.
Steve Gilliard was really special. In my heart, I award a Gilli to really thoughtful writing.
SiubhanDuinne
@Davebo:
Charles Pierce, who almost never posts on weekends, has a piece up titled “This is the Bleakest Moment for America in my Lifetime.”
I don’t find that at all reassuring.
Shana
@SiubhanDuinne: I know I’m very late to the thread but Yeah a Dorothy Parker quote! I knew I liked you.
BTW, just saw “Menashe” a movie about an ultraorthodox widower who loses custody of his son because there’s no woman in the household and how he deals with it. Very good although limited distribution.
Schlemazel
@enplaned:
Oh yeah. It is right next to their mea culpa for making the case for Boy Blunders illegal invasion of Iraq
Doctor Lost
Erick started all of this, so his latest missives are particularly grating.
efgoldman
@SiubhanDuinne:
And Charles is my contemporary, more or less. He lived thru Vietnam, Watergate, the riots of the 60s, Sanctus Ronaldus Magnus, and the assassinations of JFK, MLK, and RFK. Those were some pretty bleak times indeed.
Incitatus for Senate
Please stop acting surprised that the New York Times is a terrible paper. It was a worthless piece of shit about the Iraq war, a worthless piece of shit about Obama, a worthless piece of shit about Hillary. It has been a worthless piece of toilet paper for at least 15 years, and way too many liberals are shocked every single fucking time.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Well, I suppose the good side of this is the racists only feel safe marching in gentrified towns and not pillaging whole minority communities like in the old days, so progress of sorts.
Karen
There are/were riots in Seattle today, once again pro dolt and counter protesters became violent.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2017/08/13/breaking-violent-protests-break-out-in-major-u-s-metropolis-riot-police-respond/
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
Were you scared by what you remember? Scared about what you did in the dream? Scared about what you didn’t do in the dream?
It’s a dream. No matter how insane it was or what you want to do with he info, it was a dream.
This for some reason reminds me of a friends mom. I never met her but her son is a good friend. When my dad was in the late stages of Alzheimer’s he told me about his mom. His description was that she was the kindest, nicest gentlest person, he’d never heard her swear, not one word and she rarely even raised her voice at all. But in the late stages of Alzheimer’s she would yell and scream and swear like a drunken sailor. He said it was the most amazing thing to hear her use fuck 10-20 times a minute. Our minds work in mysterious ways, and that more of us don’t have amazing and troubling dreams that we remember borders on the unbelievable to me.
Yarrow
Why is he now “Erick-Woods” for his first name?
Monala
@Lyrebird: IIRC, he said something about how all these others cultures are celebrated in America, but not white European culture. And I thought about how all the St. Patrick’s Day parades, Oktoberfests, Greek festivals, and popular Italian restaurants in this country must just be my imagination.
Mary G
@SiubhanDuinne: I have that dream all the time, too, looking and looking for a toilet that’s never there.
Cheryl Rofer
@Diana: Dialog is about listening to others. If Bruni is explaining his own difficult childhood (and I have no doubt that being gay made his difficult), he is not listening to someone else. Part of the reason I get irritated at this sort of thing is that it evokes my own competitiveness: Oh yeah? Wait till you hear what I faced! I can rack up points too.
It just doesn’t go anywhere for policy discussion. At a bar or in a consciousness-raising group (although I think that is no longer a thing), maybe yes.
Edited for clarity.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: I have never done this with fresh black eyed peas, but I have made this with fresh black garbanzo beans ( tinier, darker and tastier), steam them, chop fresh cilantro, red onion and toss with the steamed chickpeas along with a dash of lime. I season them with a little cayenne and sea salt.
Ruckus
@Cheryl Rofer:
That short little piece sums it up nicely. It’s about status, it’s about value, it’s about power. In a zero sum game. Racists see only power, never equality. Either they have some over whomever or they are equal. And if they are equal then all the crap they think about everyone else is just that, crap. And of course because they are the superior piece of humanity their ideas can’t be crap. And they couldn’t be more incorrect if they tried. And FSM knows that they do try.
I’m hoping that there is a god, a heaven and hell, just so that when they get to the gates, someone will finally be able to convince them that they aren’t shit. They haven’t risen to that level. It would be great to see them watch all the people who don’t think they are superior but just people walk into heaven and all the white haters and religious assholes get routed straight to a pit of fire. Now that would be a party.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@SiubhanDuinne:
Was the murderer, whatever his name is, childless? He looks like he could drop a few pounds. He ever have sex outside of marriage? If not, maybe we might call him frigid. Anyway, I’m guessing they’re not calling him such names.
These creatures are subhuman. They’re Morlocks.
bupalos
@SiubhanDuinne: I find it hard to believe they aren’t using the alt-right slang for those things.
I trolled around these kind of spots like reddit’s donald place, they’ve got a whole language for these themes, almost all of which overlap with Nazi eugenics. I was truly surprised (why I was surprised, I don’t know, in retrospect) how much female appearance/chastity/childbearing enters into this stuff. I never really realized that Donald’s whole women-rating thing or ordering beautiful brides from Eastern Europe actually plays into the racists eugenics vibe.
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: That sounds great. I have a ton of black-eyed peas to use up so I might give that a try. Would it work best while they’re warm, do you think?
I make a sort of version of that with canned chickepeas for a salad. I usually cut up onion and parsley and toss with olive oil and lemon and maybe a little garlic. I’ve added cherry tomatoes too. It’s pretty easy to make and tasty.
I made a version of this “cowboy caviar” today. I didn’t add black beans because I have so many black-eyed peas and I decided against adding the avocado because I think it wouldn’t have kept as well. I also didn’t use cilantro because I don’t have any. I made it earlier in the day and then had it at dinner. It’s really good. I’ll definitely make it again.
I think I’m going to be eating black-eyed peas most meals for the next couple of weeks!
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
As an addendum to my previous comment to you, if you don’t know what it’s about that’s because it’s your brain putting all the stuff in it in a form of a movie. It doesn’t always make any sense, it doesn’t have to. As you have no consciousness in forming this brain activity it most often won’t. There have been people trying to explain dreams for eons. There is no logical explanation for what they mean, they weren’t logically formed.
Schlemazel
@SiubhanDuinne:
Hang on, it is going to get worse.
The cops are saying poor little Alex was a-skard because he got punched at the rally and was not trying to kill anybody just trying to get away.
The fucker is going to walk
Frankensteinbeck
@bupalos:
There is a huge, long-running racism theme of women as breeding stock, valued and protected as such. The darkies are always coming for your women. They are absolutely obsessed with cuckolding. My only surprise is that I didn’t connect earlier that these attitudes will inevitably bring with them a fat dollop of misogyny.
@efgoldman:
If he means the entire Trump presidency, maybe. I guess I just see all of this as a process. The march and the murder revealed nothing to me. I knew those people were there, and have watched the GOP as a whole move towards embracing them as they freaked the fuck out that a black man got elected president. Right wing terrorism is nowhere near new. The only thing I saw change is that a large portion of America that has been pretending this stuff isn’t true got their face shoved in it, and they were horrified and angry.
Lyrebird
@Monala: Yeah… MLK day was added – with great controversy – in my living memory… If I look at a calendar, who has been honored? If I wander around the Mall in Wash DC, who’s got big marble monuments? Gah. It’s white-supremacy sympathizers in TX that took out Jefferson from textbooks (and added Phyllis Schlafly??) iirc.
I think the complainant is sorry that the photo of him expressing his views is now damaging his professional development. I do not find his remarks innocent or persuasive, but that’s me.
Note – I am pasty pasty pasty white. Middle-aged, never been particulary hip. I have only a hazy notion what “woke” means, formed entirely from comments here. I just hope I retain enough of a smidgen of ability to consider others’ views valid and occasionally detect irony to stay a constructive citizen. I was also raised by people who did not grow up in the whiteness circle as defined by the haters, and we have not forgotten even though we’re in that circle now. I agree with the leadership of Charlottesville and the state of VA on the terrorism there.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: Warm would be good, room temp might work too.
Frankensteinbeck
@Schlemazel:
Are the cops saying that, or are they reporting it as his story? There’s a very big difference. Presumably he was going to come up with SOME crazy attempt at justification, after all, and it would have to be reported. At the same time, I am not dismissing the possibility the police department is pro-white-supremacist and wants to let this guy go. I need more info.
Schlemazel
@Frankensteinbeck:
it was a report about the incident quoting the cops who interviewed him.
We’ll get more info as time goes on but try to convince 12 people he was not in fear for his life no matter what the evidence says
JanieM
@Schlemazel: This story was out almost immediately after he was arrested yesterday.
Lyrebird
@Yarrow: Mashed black beans make awesome burgers or fritters. Here is one traditional West African take… very very fried. If you would rather not do so much deep frying, try just mashing ’em up in whatever veggie burger recipe you like.
If you’re pretty open to different tastes (pardon me if you turn out to be Cameroonian or something and are like, “different? what is your problem?”) then search for “moin moin recipe” for a very solid, sticks-to-your-ribs steamed bean cake. Black-eyed peas are traditional.
Suzanne
@bupalos:
Oh yes. They want/need women as breeding stock, but for nothing else. Art history teaches all of this. For over a thousand years, angels are depicted as white and blonde, the ideal female form is established (though Michelangelo panted women as dudes with boobs because they didn’t bother to learn female anatomy) with heavy emphasis on secondary sexual characteristics, and the proper role of the woman is established. Sexism is just as much of A Thing as racism, it’s just that they don’t want to exterminate or drive away all the white women because they want to use them as fucktoys and baby machines and sandwich-makers and then ditch them and leave them in poverty when they get old/sick/unattractive. Black women get the intersectional one-two punch of racism + sexism, which is of course even worse, and has its own weirdness……most white racists consider black women gross and certainly not good enough to marry or bear their children, but fantasize about fucking them anyway.
Sexism is and always has been a problem on the same scale. It just takes a different form.
Millard Filmore
@Mary G:
I have that kind of dream also, and wander around some interesting architecture in my search. But be very careful if you ever find it.
efgoldman
I have a dream that a Red Sox reliever doesn’t walk the fucking ballpark.
Diana
@Cheryl Rofer: We are talking about the actual column, right? not just the headline?
“If Bruni is explaining his own difficult childhood….”
He’s not, he’s just stating that he thinks he can express an opinion that reflects something other than his status as a white cis-gendered male: “So where does that leave me? Who does that make me? Oppressor or oppressed? Villain or victim? And does my legitimacy hinge on the answer?”
If you’re saying that the legitimacy of his opinions does hinge on the answer, you’re proving his point.
Is that really what you’re trying to do here?
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks. I’ll give it a try.
@Lyrebird: I’ve made my own mashed black bean “burgers”! They were pretty good but didn’t really stick together for frying in a pan. I wasn’t going to risk them on a grill because they would have fallen through the grate.
I have never heard of moin moin so I just had a look. How interesting! It looks a bit labor intensive but very cool photos of the end result. You have to peel the black-eyed peas?
I have an absolute abundance of black-eyed peas right now from my garden. I was not supposed to have this many but the plants are going nuts so I’m harvesting every day. I can’t keep up!
jl
I read the Bruni piece out of curiosity, though I see some commenters noted it was written before the Nazi demonstrations. Sure was a lot of ‘white man whining’ at the beginning. I’m a middle aged white gentile man, and even I thought, ‘Dude, who put that gigantic chip on your shoulder?’
One of my trades is economics so I often find myself in the situation of explaining, though not usually defending particularly hard or a all. positions and opinions of The Man to quite diverse groups of students. But I have never encountered the ferocious accusations and hurt feelings I read about from these guys. Am I shitty at “white man ‘splaining” or what? I feel like I must not be doing it right.
Also, what is the background of the ‘cherish our history’ code word. I can’t find much on it. A number of commentators who understand this stuff, including our own Adam, said that is a stone cold code word that jumped out at them immediately in Trumps dipshitty statement on the demonstrations.
Frankensteinbeck
@jl:
Well, the main part of it in the US is that it’s the code argument used to justify identifying with the confederacy while shucking public blame for racism. Has been for at least a hundred years. But I know they tie all kinds of things into it, like their demented belief that white people came up with everything good in civilization, all rights and decent traditions.
some guy
@enplaned:
no.
Mike in NC
@jl: “Cherish our history” is probably a Bannon-speak version of the old saw the neo-Confederates always fall back on: “Heritage not hate”. All bullshit.
Lyrebird
@Yarrow:
Yeah, a pain but many of the skins do loosen and float up to be scooped off. Last time I made moin moin I confess I used dried skinned black-eyed peas bc at that point I had access to an African grocery… fresh would taste better though!
If you’re trying to feed others who are tentative about bean dishes, the fritters might be the thing to start with, but (ETA – other than taking skins off) the moin moin is easier, esp if you have a big steamer basket.
Yeah and I hear you, ix-nay on the BBQ grill unless you put ’em on foil. Do you have any recollection of the recipe you used for your bean burgers?
Enjoy! I gotta go sleep…
Gretchen
Rod Dreher over at American Conservative has had something like 10 posts hyperventilating over poor Googlebro not getting his free speech because conservative white men are horribly discrimated against. Now Charlottesville is mostly the fault of identity politics giving poor white men nowhere to go. If only everyone would be nicer to mediocre conservative white men.
efgoldman
@Gretchen:
I think Rod has more degrees than I do, and a very widely read platform. Do you think he can show us where in the constitution or statutes it says that the first amendment applies to private employers?
Yes, they are that stupid, and think everyone else is, too.
Jay S
@Gretchen: @Gretchen:
I believe you mean sub-par conservative white men
Omnes Omnibus
This might be an okay place to leave Liberal Redneck’s latest.
Lyrebird
@Yarrow: PS FWIW the most successful vegan pizza topping I have tried so far was a puree of sauteed sweet onions & carrots with Great Northern beans. Could be interesting to try with black eyed peas.
May not be a culinary niche you’ve ever had a need to fill, but just think of what you use white sauce and/or cheese on, casseroles etc, and bake it on.
Beans also freeze well! (Cook a bit first.)
James Powell
@enplaned:
Yes they are and in my view the NYT is more culpable than the rest. The NYT was the source and constant promoter of the bullshit Whitewater investigations, none of which turned up anything but an extramarital affair. The NYT continuously pushed every groundless Republican rumor and innuendo about Benghazi and emails and the Clinton Foundation.
Somebody at the NYT absolutely hates Hillary Clinton and has been determined harm her. This went on for over 20 years. No one has ever explained it.
FTFNYT!
RandomMonster
Did Erick get gay-married to some guy named Woods? It would be whatever not to speculate.
frosty fred
One of those epiphanies you hear about (following up on last night’s conversation here &ff). I just came in from feeding and realized the history and heritage of which I’m ashamed is just what the Charlottesville demonstrators are longing to be able to identify with. It’s a funny old world.
It’s also ironic that Charlottesville is associated with some of my happiest childhood memories; we spent a few days there for several summers in a row.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Baby you’re a white man, baby you’re a white man
SiubhanDuinne
@RandomMonster:
But why would he hyphenate his first name and not his surname? It all looks peculiar to me.
Monala
@Ruckus: Flannery O’Connor wrote that short story, I believe… a racist (but “good christian”) white man has a dream in which he is denied entrance to heaven and has to watch as all those people of other races he looked down on enter ahead of him.
Chris
@Gretchen:
And the heck of it is, we’re actually trying! The only people anywhere who give a shit about the mediocre conservative white man – or the mediocre liberal white man, or the mediocre man or woman or whatever color – are Democrats. The only people arguing that you shouldn’t have to be a paragon of ambition, hard work, intelligence and talent to have a secure future are the people these guys hate.
Of course, it’s hard to admit that you’re mediocre and not a special snowflake, so…
Yarrow
@Lyrebird: No, I don’t remember the recipe. I probably poked around online and just made something up. I remember adding something hot and then found it wasn’t enough when I ate them so added more hot sauce at that point.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Good stuff! I subscribed. Really love his points about how these guys aren’t really winning and that they cosplay as losers; they worship history’s losers.
SiubhanDuinne
@Millard Filmore:
I have an entire category of dreams I call my “architectural” dreams. They are usually quite Escher-like, with long staircases going nowhere, banks of elevators and escalators that go to one floor and then force you to walk halfway around the building to find another bank that will take you closer to where you want to be, endless corridors with uncountable doors….
SiubhanDuinne
@Shana:
How did dinner with your daughter go? Did she have tales to tell?
Frankensteinbeck
@frosty fred:
Yes. I don’t know who came up with this phrase, but the argument between conservatives and liberals is a difference of values, not facts. I like that phrasing, but I’ve always known it was true. Things we think are good or neutral, they think are very bad. Things we think are very bad, they think are morally good. It’s very hard for liberals to grasp things like conservatives thinking that making people suffer is good, not just for practical effects, but as a moral principle. And the social evolution of the past two decades, to them, is the apocalypse. It is the fall of civilization. For one example, you can’t make the argument that gay marriages won’t harm their marriage. The harm is that gays are having approved, open relationships. And a black man as president? This is all the stuff the older conservatives were told would happen when desegregation happened. It all came true. We think it ranges between ‘fine’ and ‘wonderful.’ They see a nightmare world.
Patricia Kayden
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): The police have only arrested four people in Charlottesville — four people. In Ferguson, how many scores of Black activists were arrested? The police also are on video watching as White Supremacists are allowed to run amuck. So I’m not sure what Virginia has to be proud of. Letting White Supremacists beat up peaceful protesters is not a good look. I’m in Montreal now and folks here are surprised at how racist Americans still are. Embarrassing as hell.
efgoldman
@SiubhanDuinne:
That’s not a dream, that’s Boston City Hall.
Chris
@James Powell:
Yep.
I generally think the NYT and the MSM in particular are enormously guilty, because the perception is still that they’re liberally biased, and they’re also still the only real alternative (as pathetic as it may be) to the right-wing media echo chamber. So when they pick up a right-wing narrative and plaster the airwaves with it, they’re essentially guaranteeing that it’s the only narrative the general public will hear at all.
Amir Khalid
@Yarrow:
Yeah. Who the heck names their kid “Erick-Woods”? Putting a hyphen between two given names looks especially weird.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
He was born at the tail end of December 1953, so he’s a good 11-1/2 years younger than me, and I guess about 7 or 8 years your junior. We have indeed survived some true bleakitude. But yes, even if he was just a kid for some of those events, if he was paying any attention he will remember them.
And while his rhetoric may sometimes be hyperbolic, I think he’s sincere in his personal assessment about the events of this weekend.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Hmm… Aside from the sex dreams and the “I forgot I enrolled in this course and now I won’t graduate” dreams, I don’t really have any that I remember. One wonders what that says about me?
Yarrow
@Amir Khalid: Yes, it’s very odd. People do have hyphenated first names sometimes. Maybe a John-Paul or something like that. But they usually use both names as their name. Erick does go by Erick-Woods, does he? It’s just strange.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I found that he makes me address a certain snobbery that I have. His accent and style of dress… I am working on it.
Ruckus
@Monala:
That could easily be a racist hell. Standing there looking in and not being able to move or say anything while millions of people of all races walk by for eons and into heaven.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
Maybe they figured he was going to be dumb as a post, so they named him after one.
Cheryl Rofer
@Diana: We are talking past each other. I think that Bruni’s mistake Bruni is that hemakes the discussion about him. He is worrying about his “qualifications” and adding up his oppressions to “qualify.” If he is in a conversation with people of color, he should do a lot of listening. Not listening and talking about themselves is the big mistake white men make.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cheryl Rofer: No, that isn’t it. You have to understand that… //
Amaranthine RBG
@Cheryl Rofer:
Have you ever noticed any other human beings, other than white men, who make this mistake?
Monala
@Ruckus: (searches Google) The story is Revelation , and I mis-remembered, the main character is a racist woman.
J R in WV
@efgoldman:
I was 14 when the Selma Alabama marchers were beaten by the cops, dogs, barbed wire, clubs, you name it. So, no – this isn’t the worst by any means. Pierce is just forgetting what that was like. And Kennedy’s killing, both of them! And Martin’s death. I remember that too.
Charlie Pierce is just forgetting the horrid stuff in our early lives. But this is horrible, the good thing is that the vast majority of people hate it. Back in the 1960s it wasn’t nearly so clear cut that the haters were a minority… it may be that they weren’t actually a minority. But they are today, I’m [retty sure.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amaranthine RBG: Nice try.
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
Wow. That guy has his shit together. I was a little dubious at first, but he hits it right on the sweet spot.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: He seems like the real thing.
Gretchen
@SiubhanDuinne: it’s not an imposition. We are interested.
Gretchen
@efgoldman: she wasn’t childless. There is a little boy who will grow up without a mother because of this jerk.
El Caganer
@Yarrow: Maybe he was inspired by Ed Wood.
SWMBO
@Yarrow: Black eyed peas freeze too, especially after cooking. Make baked beans but use the peas instead. There is a recipe I grew up on called Hopping John. Don’t know why or where it got the name. Boil black eyed peas with smoked ribs. Add tomatoes, garlic, rice, and spice it to your liking. Some like it with chili or cayenne. Others like it with oregano and basil. Make yourself happy.
Frankensteinbeck
@J R in WV:
This weekend, feeling they had full government permission to strut their stuff, the hardcore white supremacist factions got together for a well-organized national rally. They got about 1,000 people, and were vastly outnumbered by the counterdemonstrators. Thankfully, it reminds me that while a large number of white in this country are racist as fuck, the proportion willing to get off their asses about it is tiny, much less than the people willing to oppose them. Not enough of them for a campaign of terror, but enough of them to shock the Hell out of a lot of whites who comfortably thought racism was over and liberals exaggerate.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@Omnes Omnibus: Love it! Thank you for the link.
James Powell
@Chris:
For reasons they’ve never explained, they don’t see it that way. The NYT isn’t alone, but they are the most egregious offenders. And it wasn’t just their tendency to reinforce RW narratives. They have an anti-Hillary thing going on there, but everyone who works there pretends it doesn’t exist and takes great umbrage when it’s pointed out with evidence.
Sab
@J R in WV: I was 11 when the Selma March happened. Pierce wasn’t paying attention then, he being a child but not in the South.
Things are bad now, but I still believe in arcs of history, and the pendulum swinging. We need to get out and push that pendulum in the proper direction.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus:
Fantastic!
The Moar You Know
“We have no tolerance for hate and violence from white supremacists, neo-Nazis or the KKK. These dangerous fringe groups have…”
@JPL: Huh. That’s a change in tune. Looks like someone sat his dumb ass down and explained a few things.
Should have to explain to anyone in 2017 that Nazis are bad, but damn, here we are, people.
The Moar You Know
@Incitatus for Senate: Thank you. All true.
No One You Know
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m curious. Can’t swear to my dream interpretation, but I experience three kinds:
Processing the day, deep-seated worry comes to surface, and insight/foresight. They each have their own markers.