Great piece in Buzzfeed about how Milo and Bannon and company mainstreamed Nazis and their beliefs, but this is the most shocking aspect:
More telling, however, is that Yiannopoulos was let in by a few in the liberal media world. Some, including a senior staff writer at Vice’s women’s channel Broadly, Mitchell Sunderland, would send him pitches that only outlets like Breitbart could run. Others would spill background information about some of Yiannopoulos’s targets:
– Sunderland asked Yiannopoulos to mock New York Times columnist Lindy West, whom he called a “fat feminist.”
– Dan Lyons, a tech reporter and editor, suggested story ideas and speculated, BuzzFeed wrote, about “the birth sex of Zoë Quinn, another GamerGate target, and Amber Discko, the founder of the feminist website Femsplain.”
– David Auerbach, a former tech reporter for Slate, “passed along on background information about the love life of Anita Sarkeesian, the GamerGate target; ‘the goods’ about an allegedly racist friend of Arthur Chu, the Jeopardy champion and frequent advocate of social justice causes; and a ‘hot tip’ about harsh anti-harassment tactics implemented by Wikipedia.”
Yiannopoulos’s courting of the mainstream got results: At least two of those tips — Sunderland passing along a Broadly video about the Satanic Temple and abortion rights, and Auerbach’s tip about Wikipedia — turned into Breitbart articles.
But yeah, tell me how misogyny played no role in the 2016 election.
rikyrah
This is who they are, Cole.
Complete scum.?
Baud
I never heard of these people. Were they supposed to be our friends?
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
This fucking abomination from a few months back belongs in the annals of Cleek’s Law hackdom.
Sab
Why are tech reporters allowed out in public. They are inevitably compromised simply by being able to function in their chosen poisonous field.
Nicole
Ugh. Infuriating and now, not at all surprising. I learned last year during the campaign. that a lot of men I considered friends really dislike women. That was depressing as hell. And many of them are married and have daughters. I feel for those women and future women.
Hell, I discovered I had women friends who also don’t like women, too.
Baud
@Baud: I googled them. All white dudes.
Nicole
Ugh. Infuriating and now, not at all surprising. I learned last year during the campaign. that a lot of men I considered friends really dislike women. That was depressing as hell. And many of them are married and have daughters. I feel for those women and future women.
Hell, I discovered I had women friends who also don’t like women.
eric
“Just win baby” is the Right Wing creed. Everything else, including Cleek’s Law, follows from this proposition. It explains odd alliances and hypocrisy. It is the Alpha and the Omega of the Right.
NotMax
Of course it did, just as in the case of Geraldine Ferraro, just as anti-Semitism had a role when Lieberman was half of the top ticket, just as anti-Catholicism played a role when JFK was running.
“It’s always something.”
– Roseanne Roseannadanna
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Baud: @Nicole: Goddamned traitors.
Baud
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Traitors implies that they purported to be on our side. Like I said, I’ve never heard of these people.
d58826
A bit OT but today is employeement number day and
Oh that is going to hurt Der Fuhrer’s feelings or is it more fake news.
The reason for the decline is the hurricanes, of course, but if this happened under Obama or Hillary the GOP would be screaming depression.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/06/business/economy/jobs-report-unemployment.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Baud
@d58826: Didn’t the experts know about the hurricane? They still predicted job growth.
Barbara
@Baud: They were supposed to be mainstream reporters for publications that would not dream of publishing the kinds of information that they were pushing Breitbart to publish. They committed at least two journalistic sins (in addition to being morally reprehensible). The first is, they screwed their employer by, most likely, using information obtained through their employment to feed competing publications. Second, they violated their employer’s standards because, presumably, their employer considered it unethical or improper to publish the kinds of information that they were peddling to Breitbart. So they basically were working for Breitbart on their employer’s dime. This is why at least one of them is denying it. This would be the kiss of death for their career, and not just because they wanted to publish politically incorrect material. And yes, it all reinforces my emerging view that a lot of men simply hate women.
NotMax
@Baud
Expected umbrella manufacturers to take on more workers?
Baud
@Barbara: Thanks for the rundown. That all makes sense to me. Why would they do something like this, other than they wanted to see hateful stories published? They deserve to lose their careers.
Baud
@NotMax: I hear Mexican umbrella manufacturers are booming.
Peale
Yep. Kind of how Drudge became influential at the time. Those reporters just “had to” read him each day, mainly because they wanked off to lurid tales of the Clintons, whom they loathed. Why not read that porn about Hillary’s affair with the vet?
Barbara
I read this whole piece, and while it is a bit slapdash and hard to follow, two things are really obvious (in addition to the fact that Milo and Bannon and company hate women who are not named Rebekah Mercer and they tolerate her only because she has a whopping checkbook). The first is the utter lack of self-regard. They expected to hurt Arthur Chu, who wrote a really perceptive piece in response to the GamerGate controversy, because one of his friends is a racist. Never mind that Chu is not and Milo and company are not just racists but raging asshole racists. FFS. And everything that they planned to hurt women with, like Chu, was totally extraneous to whatever ideas they held: they were fat or they had unsuccessful relationships or they were trans. This is their idea of the greatness of western civilization — bypassing ideas and going straight to fat and slut shaming. I think I can cope with the decline of the west if Milo and Bannon and Mercer are representative of its future.
Baud
@Peale: Good analogy.
SFAW
@Barbara:
Fixed, to be only slightly more optimistic
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So tech reporters are just Dude Bros with a journalism degree.
Betty Cracker
We’ve always known Breitbart was a racist, sexist, xenophobic hate site; normal news organizations do not have a “black crime” tag, FFS. But access to power has a scrubbing bubble effect: Mainstream hacks like Politico’s Shafer and the NYT’s Thrush (linked in #3) tried to give an imprimatur of respectability to Breitbart. Former WSJ reporter John Carney moved to Breitbart after the election. Mainstream Republicans like Lil Marco publish op-eds there.
Well, now that Bannon and his minions have been exposed as deliberate and conscious collaborators with Nazis, will these political and media hacks admit they were wrong and stop associating with the organization that actively cultivated the Daily Stormer staff and gave editorial power to avowed white nationalists? Will they stop taking money and marching orders from American oligarch father-daughter arch-villains Robert and Rebekah Mercer, who funded the Nazi outreach? Haha, no!
d58826
@Baud: hurricanes are fake news
Juju
@Nicole: What you said eight times over.
Cheryl Rofer
This is another piece about the complexity that has taken over our politics. Maybe it’s always been this complex, but the limited number of news outlets hasn’t been able to report it all.
I haven’t followed the story in detail, because tweeting or blogging about it seemed likely to attract more trouble than I cared to deal with, but the BuzzFeed article breaks a lot of it open. I’ve skimmed that article and am taking some of this from tweets I’m reading.
I’m a second-wave feminist, so the denial for a while by younger women that feminism needed to be a thing bothered me. The past few years have broken that better than I could have done, and I’m glad. There are good things coming out of that, like the now-public shaming of Harvey Weinstein. Transparency will help extinguish these behaviors.
What the BuzzFeed article offers is peeling another layer off that onion. It ties GamerGate to Breitbart (and a host of slimeballs) to the open Nazis to Silicon Valley. Those connections have long seemed to me to be there, and not surprisingly. It’s easy for young men to feel unconquerable and unconquered, and young men make up most of Silicon Valley. They were able to unite around some of the more poisonous themes that young men are susceptible to in GamerGate, particularly misogyny based on the lack of cooperation of young women in their goal of getting bedded. Those themes braid into a more explicit sort of Naziism and the craziness that we see with the guys who say they are totally withdrawing from any contact with women. To which a great many women say “GOOD!”
It’s one more toxic strain in our society that needs to be outed. If we can keep this up, we can emerge stronger from the Trump years.
ETA (Thanks, Betty Cracker): Plus the connections to the big money, like the Mercers. Hoocoodanode they liked Nazis?
Baud
@Betty Cracker: If only she had said this in an email.
Roger Moore
@eric:
I don’t think Cleek’s Law is explained by that creed; instead, it explains how they define “win”. In the many cases where they lack any ideas of their own, they simply define winning as their enemies losing, since it saves them the trouble of actually thinking about challenging policy issues.
Betty Cracker
@Cheryl Rofer: You may have already seen it, but here’s an interesting piece Vox published late last year about how the alt-right consciously uses sexism to lure insecure dude-bros into its white supremacist web. As you noted, it’s all connected.
Humboldtblue
@Peale:
And how many times did he link to Russian propaganda?
All the fucking time.
Major Major Major Major
Honestly what I found most shocking were that Milo himself was one of the ones pushing the anti-Semitic stuff (assuming I read it right, didn’t want to spend any more time reading it than I had to); and OH MY GOD HIS FUCKING EMAIL PASSWORDS
@Baud:
For the lulz. And they really are that hateful.
There’s a very strong undercurrent of this stuff anywhere you encounter large concentrations of white men, especially of the educated variety.
ETA: @Betty Cracker: Yeah, that MRA shit is also a big component of what I said above.
Hill Dweller
@Baud: The jobs totals for August and July were also revised down. That can’t be blamed on the hurricanes.
Barbara
@Major Major Major Major: Honestly, I doubt if it would be limited to white males if white males were not so openly racist. Sexism abounds in most cultures.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
White men sold the country to the Russians rather than share it with women and blacks. The white men who voted for Hillary are my personal heroes.
Steve in the ATL
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Did you ever suspect that you might type such a phrase? These people are just evil.
Major Major Major Major
@Barbara: This particularly virulent strain has a pretty strong component of white resentment, but since that’s just rude to vocalize in their professional and social circles, a lot of guys channel it into sexism.
@Steve in the ATL:
Doesn’t seem that out there, sadly. But I always had very low expectations for that group writ large.
Jeffro
Trumpov and his stupid “maybe this is the calm before the storm” bullshit better not lead to some trumped-up war or wag-the-dog type of diversion/attack. It’s all fun and games until shit gets blown up in Iran, or several million die on the Korean peninsula.
I swear, this guy…a stroke can’t come quickly enough…
James Powell
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I don’t deserve it, but I will take it.
Humboldtblue
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I still can’t get over the fact the 53% of white women voted for Trump. What it tells me is that Obama was handsome and charming and pretty fucking smart and once he was gone it was easy to target the Hillary Beast. Gin them up with some salacious nonsense, wave goodbye to the magic negro and get back to hatin’ those damn dirty liberals and crooked Hillary.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Yes I agree. Fellow male graduate student in physics (not all but many), racist and sexist to the core. Someone on Balloon Juice on one of Levenson’s posts about the physics Nobel speculated that if everyone took a course in Astronomy, they wouldn’t be such raging assholes. ROTFLOL. Probably said by someone who has never encountered large concentrations of Astronomy/Astrophysics graduate students/professors. So naive..
schrodingers_cat
@Steve in the ATL: Do these excellent specimens of humanity think that Russians are always going to play nice? They should ask some peeps in Eastern Europe how cozy the bear hug is.
A Ghost To Most
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Some of us have given up our families rather than acquiesce to the hate and bigotry.
Bruuuuce
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It’s no surprise. There are a ton of scheisskopf white supremacist bros in tech, deliberately. The plan seems to be to get in by faking being human (i.e., paying lip service to diversity), moving up the ladder, and filling the company with more scheisskopfs like themselves. Here’s a BoingBoing writeup, plus a link to the original article,
Roger Moore
Actually, it’s about ethics in technology journalism.
Baud
@Humboldtblue: 56% of white women voted for Romney.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Humboldtblue:
Me neither. This election was a sorting hat and I have made decisions in my personal life as to whether you’re a Trump supporter or not.
OzarkHillbilly
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: (humbly bows in acknowledgement) And I still haven’t lost any glass in my truck as I continue to proudly display my Hillary bumper sticker as a big old “FUCK YOU” to all my “make america grate again” neighbors. (an “Impeach trump” bumper sticker too)
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@James Powell:
Not all heroes wear capes.
Baud
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Heh.
MJS
@Hill Dweller: Exactly. We need to be shouting,”Job Losses! Sad!” at the top of our lungs. The cause doesn’t matter. When the response is “Hurricanes”, our response is, “The economy gained jobs after Sandy. Why is Trump so bad at job creation?”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@OzarkHillbilly:
Thank you. I have come to the end of the road with patience for white men, and their overall uselessness in the struggle. I know so many liberal men, but they insist on the “not me!” #notallwhitemen approach to doing anything about anything. I implore the ones I know to push back against their racist sexist cohort, but they don’t. Utterly useless.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Why did we expect any different. Sisterhood is overrated and women can be misogynist too. In fact they are the enforcers of the said misogyny, many a time.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@A Ghost To Most:
That’s heroic, really. I’ve been lucky with family, but have had to dump some friends.
schrodingers_cat
@schrodingers_cat: Missing an s after student.
/spelling and grammar fail.
schrodingers_cat
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Same here.
Cheryl Rofer
@Betty Cracker: I think I didn’t see that one, but yeah.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@schrodingers_cat:
The thing is, I get angrier at everyone – but especially women – who voted for Trump with each passing day. I want to grab them by the…. throat.
Major Major Major Major
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I’m surprised that you don’t see the corollary more often–not all cape-wearers are heroes!
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
I doubt they care. They care about winning right now because they know losing now hurts their chances of winning again in the future. They’ll worry about Russia when they’ve taken care of their enemies at home. Besides, we still have nukes.
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: There are plenty of ways to undermine an isolated from Europe and rest of the world United States (which I think is Putin’s goal) than nuclear weapons.
tobie
@Roger Moore: Maddow made the point last night that the only piece of legislation this GOP-led Congress has produced is a bill that makes it easier for people with a mental health history to buy guns. Everything else they’ve done repeals what Obama or the once Democratic House and Senate passed. So, yeah, oppose and obstruct are their only objectives. Policy is for little people who believe in gov’t.
Roger Moore
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
No capes!
Major Major Major Major
@Bruuuuce: I read that article but got a real distinct vibe that there aren’t actually very many of those types. What’s really going on is that it’s just an existing background radiation within the industry, because of demographics (lots of white men in one place). It’s not a white-supremacists-pipelined-into-police-work scale problem.
@Roger Moore: you’re the cape!
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: So you are saying that they are not misogynist but they are assholes giving the vibe of being racist and misogynist? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say in #63
Matt McIrvin
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
For many of us, this is kind of like getting a medal for not hitting yourself with a hammer.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: I’m saying that the people described in the article–Nazis who try to cultivate space in the industry for Nazis–are too small in number to explain the phenomenon.
ETA I mean do you really think the awful white men in your grad department, who exist at the same scale as awful white men in tech, were pipelined in there by Nazis?
The Moar You Know
Holy shit. That’s all I’ve got.
Smiling Mortician
@d58826:
That’s what I have, most days.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: OK now I get it. They were not Nazis, just clueless and entitled.
LanceThruster
Equating Hillary’s loss to misogyny primarily is like equating Alan Keyes’ or Ben Carson’s political fortunes to racism. Team Hillary wanted to paint Sanders as an atheist Jew.
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore: I suspect the folks who were consciously cultivating Nazis and applauding Russia’s interference in our election and others (i.e., Bannon and minions) pretty much share Putin’s aims, so they ain’t worried.
Nicole
@Juju: Thank you – your comment makes me feel better about the accidental double post. Six times to go! :)
(Apologies for that, by the way – I posted in that odd spot in between the wifi going out and the LTE taking over and got twin posts! Fraternal, though, I see. One caught my edit.)
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: Speaking as a carpenter, hitting yourself with a hammer is a lot easier than it looks.
Feathers
One thing to remember is that there was a split between college educated white women, who went for Hillary, and non college who went for T. There is a real tendency to seriously overestimate the percentage of Americans with college degrees if everyone you know socially has one – it’s only one third and much lower the older a cohort you are looking at.
Turning a College degree into a luxury good necessary for a middle class life has had grave repercussions.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: I mean the people in that Stranger article are Nazis, but they’re deluded in their self-importance.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Putin wants to undermine the United States on the global stage besides all the racist and sexist clap trap.
A move away from $ in global finance may or may not hurt the Mercers and their paid blood hounds but can you say that about the rank and file T supporter? The position enjoyed by the United States post war and the relative geographic isolation has insulated a lot of Americans from their own rank stupidity, that won’t go on forever following Putin’s bear hug.
tobie
@LanceThruster: Ding ding ding. The Bro Brigade has arrived. Nice moniker, LanceThruster. It’s about as subtle and mature a nym as “Hot Rod.”
Major Major Major Major
@LanceThruster: having oppo research and a pile of theoretical strategies laying around is not the same as wanting to do something oh you know what I think I had you pied
Betty Cracker
@LanceThruster: Fuck off, asshole.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Matt McIrvin:
The grading curve for white men is REAL.
George
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: That is an exceptionally dumb and lazy comment. As a white guy who has not voted for the GOP since I stopped living under the roof of my conservative father and mother and began experiencing life on my own decades ago, I have no patience with anyone who feels the urge to scapegoat white guys as a group.
Go talk to the majority of white women who vote for the GOP and ask them why they continue to vote against their own self interest, against LGBTQ rights, against a woman’s right to choose, against health care, and so forth, then get back to us liberal white guys and tell us to chide our white, not-so-liberal buddies.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: it’s funny, how Bernie’s campaign emails and oppo research were never leaked by foreign hackers.
Baud
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Heh.
Kay
@Sab:
Agree.
Baud
@George:
Hmmm. Notice you didn’t say you voted for Hillary. If you had, you would have been considered a hero, not a scapegoat.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Big Bear doesn’t snitch on fellow comrades.
Major Major Major Major
@George: #notallwhitemen
They don’t vote against their “self interest”. They vote against what would in aggregate be most economically advantageous for them. They have simply decided that other aspects of life, like oppressing black people, are more important. There are things in life people consider parts of their “self interest” beyond money. For them this includes white supremacy and patriarchy.
Kay
@Baud:
I’m not 100% on board for the hero designation. HUGE sacrifice on their part. I think not.
Bruuuuce
@Major Major Major Major: Given the extent of the problem as revealed by GamerGate, I’m less certain than you of the extent. Yes, that was one segment of the industry, but add to it the Google Bro and more than a few other incidents since GG, and it’s clear tech is infested. Whether it was deliberate or has become so is open to question, for now.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@George:
Oh fuck right off.
Kay
Well, we all knew some liberals were horrible. We knew that, right?
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I have as well.
FWIW, mr. h (definitely in the Old White Guy demographic) was a supporter of Hillary back in 2008 and 2016 and never wavered (yes, he voted for Obama twice). He’s always said she was the best qualified candidate so of course he would support her.
Gin & Tonic
Here come the bros.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
I’m embarrassed for you, man. Are there any other imaginary slams on your personal Jesus that never actually happened in real life that you want to complain about?
lollipopguild
@schrodingers_cat: People who sell themselves to the Devil always assume that he will never come to collect his prize.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: Damn. And I was just getting ready to tell my wife she was married to a real honest to dog Hero! and that she had to make my favorite meal every day now.
sherparick
@Humboldtblue: The majority of white women voted for Romney, in fact a bigger majority for Romney then for Trump 56% v. 53%. Remember, 78% of Evangelicals voted for Trump, a lot of those were women. All human beings are collection of identities, and the majority of white women identified with their tribal and religious identities when they voted. http://guides.library.harvard.edu/hks/campaigns_elections
Auerbach responded on twitter and denies the connotation in the story, although he admitted having an email exchange with Milo on Wikipedia’s anti-harassment policy. https://twitter.com/AuerbachKeller
He is leaving twitter he says because of the mobbing, which brings to mind a certain song from the 1990s, “Isn’t it Ironic.”
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: One doesn’t deserve a cookie when one votes like a sane person.
Humboldtblue
This just came across my twitter feed and it’s actually unbelievable. I’ll try and find an original source.
hugely
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: yay some self affirmations for meeeeeee ;)
Tho tbh i look like that bannon fukstik
The Moar You Know
@Sab: As a techie, I agree. Over the years, I’d say about 20% of my co-workers have been decent human beings and the rest scum. 20% seems high, I know. It is, because those guys are almost all ex-military.
In a commercial tech establishment, forget it. Maybe 5% of your co-workers won’t be absolutely horrible people if you’re lucky. The military at least insists that you act like a decent human being even if you aren’t. Also, and this is key, most military establishments don’t allow web access to sites like Stormfront, Breitbart, Facebook, Twitter, etc. So at work, at least, these guys don’t marinate in a toxic stew of internet bullshit.
The commercial world, OTOH, just does not give a fuck, minimal internet filters and HR departments notwithstanding.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
Yeah, I couldn’t help but notice that, too.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: Where the white women at?
Kay
@schrodingers_cat:
Remember Khan? “You have sacrificed nothing” – it’s too much like Donald Trump. Terrific. They did a terrific job voting.
Humboldtblue
@sherparick:
Well put.
Barbara
@sherparick: I read through the twitter feed. Unsurprisingly, Buzzfeed has its own issues (pretty sure we already knew that). Hard to make sense of the Auerbach allegations without the original emails in toto.
Nicole
@Feathers:
Fun fact- college educated white women were the ONLY group of white voters that went for Hillary. That said, there was a pretty big percentage jump in the number of college educated white men who voted for Hillary compared to the ones who didn’t go to college. It’s almost like education improves one’s ability to sort through bullsh*t. No wonder the GOP hates it.
A mistake made is assuming that a college education automatically correlates to a higher income. I do think being financially independent makes a difference for how many white women vote, though. I cut some Trump voting women friends off after the election, and to a person, they all depended on someone else’s income. Or the government’s, in one particularly irritating case. (Full disclosure; I work freelance, but my husband’s job is our main income source. We both voted Hillary, though. Because duh.)
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I’d gladly exchange cookies for Baud! 2020! support.
LosGatosCA
This stuff only works if there’s a market for it.
If the ‘smart. powerful, rich’ people could make us do what they want we’d be texting on our Newtons, driving Edsels, and drinking New Coke.
Gin & Tonic
This auto-play audio/video above the Taboola ads is absolutely fucking poison.
rp
I’m comfortable with the hero label.
Mnemosyne
@LosGatosCA:
Sad but true.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@hugely:
LOL.
cynthia ackerman
@Baud:
Fake news!
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
Email Alain — the ad company keeps telling him they’ll take the sound off and they keep lying.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mnemosyne:
In real life, progressive dudebro hero Sanders wrote rape fantasies.
schrodingers_cat
@hugely: Stop drinking then.
Villago Delenda Est
The ‘liberal media world’ isn’t all that liberal.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne: It crashes my Chrome (on Windows), too. At least a dozen times this morning. Perhaps Cole is tired of all the traffic and instructed Alain to do whatever he can to turn away users.
LanceThruster
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
And Hillary laughed about getting child rapists off.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@LanceThruster:
What’s in that crusty old man jock that smells so good to you?
You’re as big an idiot as the idiots on the right
Baud
Someone watches Fox News.
Corner Stone
Hmmm…passing the 20 week abortion ban…and then rolling back the birth control mandate…something about this just doesn’t add up.
OzarkHillbilly
I think somebody farted.
Corner Stone
That darn Ivanka, I’m here to tell you.
LanceThruster
@tobie:
It was meant to sound like ‘Flash Gordon’ or ‘Buck Rogers’ (though the double entrendre is not lost on me). It’s cool enough to be used as a character (part of the ‘Crash Nebula’ cartoon within a cartoon) in ‘The Fairly Oddparents.’ My use precedes its debut.
Betty Cracker
@LanceThruster: That’s a lie that was avidly circulated by the Breitbart organization, among other outlets for wingnut villainy. You fell for it. Stupid much?
Matt McIrvin
@Nicole:
Yes. You get starkly different answers for the effect of class on voting if you go by income or by education level.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: “fell” suggests a level of innocence
LanceThruster
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
It’s gotta be the free stuff (both his public and private position, btw). He’s out there still fighting the good fight, while Hillary is out on the “Lick your wounds” tour.
Chyron HR
@LanceThruster:
Hey, remember when the junior senator from Vermont kept losing black voters by 50% in the Democratic primary, so he got “Killer Mike” to endorse him? He literally went, “Get me a rapper! The schvartzes will do whatever a rapper tells them to!” Good times.
LanceThruster
@Betty Cracker:
Lot of anger at those who could see Hillary was an awful nominee. Shitty candidate couldn’t beat one of the shittiest candidates in modern memory.
Baud
This thread is officially off the rails.
Betty Cracker
@LanceThruster: How about taking your “lick Bernie’s balls tour” elsewhere? In the extremely unlikely event that Sanders wins the Democratic Party nomination in 2020, I’ll be obligated to vote for him, and the memory of lying fanboys like you will make it difficult than it needs to be.
catclub
@Gin & Tonic: ad block plus installed – I do not see it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@LanceThruster:
Your lazy ass grifting fraud dudebro messiah was writing rape fantasies while Hillary was fighting for children’s health care.
Kay
@LanceThruster:
Oh, God. Really? A defendant having a lawyer is now bad? Probably “got off on a technicality” right? A minor detail like due process?
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: And this is who their voters are. Pure scum.
Gin & Tonic
@catclub: I try not to install/use that, as I know sites like this need revenue. But this latest iteration is making this place borderline unreadable.
Kay
@Baud:
She laughed with child rapists. The Hillary Clinton as sex offender theme is insane. It’s a “tell”.
We deserve to get owned by Putin. We’re dumb people. Morons.
Gin & Tonic
DNFTT, people.
Tenar Arha
@Humboldtblue: I’d like to understand what story you were trying to tell here,
There was a change from
56 % white women voted Romney in 2012
53 % white women voted Trump in 2016
To me these numbers tell me the story that conscious, unconscious, & structural white supremacy is a more powerful force than misogyny in our culture among white women. It doesn’t tell me anything else about any other group, or how they voted or why.
It certainly doesn’t tell me
Why can’t we simply admit that racist backlash (now with added misogyny!) worked as it has done since the VRA was passed to guarantee that the Republican candidate got the majority of the white vote?
ETA note, fixed sentence construction in first paragraph because I don’t think you intended to sound this way.
LanceThruster
@Betty Cracker:
She chuckled about the whole case the same way she took such glee in Gaddafi being sodomized with a knife. Sociopathic if you ask me, but I’m no expert. Hate Trump, but glad she lost. Corporate shills and warmongers will be the death of the party.
Humboldtblue
@catclub:
Mozilla did an automatic update on Firefox overnight and it had something to do with disabling adblockplus because when I opened a webpage I saw glaring ads for the first time in many many years. Ublock works, though.
Humboldtblue
@Tenar Arha: We can certainly agree on that. My surprise comes from the fact that Trump is such a walking talking asshole white women would at least recognize the asshole for what he is.
Baud
@Kay: Not only laughed with them, but sold them pizza.
A Ghost to Not
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I don’t consider it heroic to avoid racists and fascista. I call it being human, and not alt-human.
Major Major Major Major
@Bruuuuce: I don’t think these people need deliberate recruiting. There are already informal and less formal pipelines for sexist assholes to end up in STEM. This ain’t the result of a bunch of twentysomethings in Seattle wearing hoodies recruiting Nazis.
Kay
Why won’t he run for governor? He’s like a less threatening Elizabeth Warren. He’s perfect for this state.
Come on. Jesus. A little help here, Richard. Rich.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Kay:
Facebook released some anti-Hillary ads that they let Russia target right wing idiots with – they haven’t released the ads yet that they used for these idiot Sanders supporters to fall for. Those are the ones I really want to see.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Could you at least come up with a lie that hasn’t already been dubunked by multiple sources?
Jesus, it’s like you guys aren’t even trying anymore.
Kay
@Baud:
She’s a younger version of my mother in law. WHERE did it come from? Tens of millions of people- “Hillary Clinton is a child molester” – 100% believable to them. WTF?
satby
@Baud: yep. Anytime the bro morons show up. See you later.
sherparick
@Major Major Major Major: Unless you go somewhere where you are not “white,” one is unconscious of the degree of white privilege we swim while in this country. By the way, what is your interests if your are a 50 year old or older married, Evangelical, white woman? She may have been sexually liberated back in the 1970s or 80s, but then came marriage, children, and church, and they became the sins and shame of her youth that God has forgiven her. No more abortion and no more contraception and her daughters will not be tempted as she was, so she thinks.
schrodingers_cat
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: They must have been pretty similar, Primaries were the dress rehearsal before fall campaign. BS and his followers were the launching pad for anti-HRC attacks which were later weaponized by T and the Rs during the main campaign.
H.E.Wolf
The Taboola ads and the boybros are equally annoying. I mute/skip both groups. No time for ’em.
Meanwhile, I’m volunteering for the Democrats in my state. It is soooo satisfying to be one of the folks helping to create the 2017-2018 wave. It takes a little time initially to walk the staffers through the concept of finding tasks for introverts… but it’s worth it.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mnemosyne:
They’re all just a bunch of dumbasses that fell for a snake oil salesman pandering to his base of idiots. Sound like anyone else?
Kay Eye
Wow. The day after the “election” an acquaintance who provides delivery service to us offered me words of sympathy and consolation. We chatted sadly for a few minutes and he, a devout Muslim, suddenly blurted out, “American men hate women.”
He was/is right. He’s a minority American. That comment made me look through his eyes.
Baud
@Kay: Right. I thought people who believed the Vince Foster stuff were crazy. This is 10x worse.
Major Major Major Major
@sherparick: and they care about that a heck of a lot more than the median income in their county.
J R in WV
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Thanks you! Anytime you need a heroic save, email me!! ;-)
I musta made 10,000 phone calls into Ohio for Hillary. I should have suspected something was askew when the caller software had me calling an employee of the campaign. I think the caller software was hacked early on, to make phone calling more of a harassment than a help, to just be confusing rather than a guide to good politicking.
Nothing I hate more than a fascist/Republican. There are a few od but godeluded people who were raised Republican back when there were honest fiscal conservatives out there, but 90% of them have a streak of hatred in them. Black hearts.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Wow, you really are nuts. I don’t care what the facts say, this out of context YouTube clip of Hillary laughing says everything I need to know!
Better tighten up that tinfoil lest some actual facts start to penetrate. You helped elect Donald Trump. Why not be proud of what you did? You wanted anyone but Hillary, and you got exactly what you wanted. Go with it, man. Wear that MAGA hat with pride. You trumped that bitch.
Major Major Major Major
@J R in WV: eh, when I worked for the Obama campaign in 2008 I sometimes got phone banking calls from my own volunteers who were in the room with me. These things aren’t perfect.
AnonPhenom
They keep spelling the word “careerist” incorrectly.
Nicole
@Mnemosyne: I am curious if LanceThruster is getting paid in dollars or rubles, and if it’s per comment or per thread or per word.
schrodingers_cat
@AnonPhenom: Media is not liberal. Case in point, the nothingburger emailz story that was front and center throughout the campaign.
libarbarian
@Kay:
How else do you explain why people would call a pizza shop and place orders for things like “Large Pizza with Pepperoni and Extra Cheese and a side order of garlic bread”?
It HAS to be code for child trafficking.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
I know. If you look at the actual facts, Hillary didn’t “get a child rapist off.” She got him to agree to a plea bargain and he went to jail. His victim was perfectly fine with the sentence until the Daily Beast reporter told her who the guy’s defense lawyer was.
AnonPhenom
@Roger Moore:
Re: Cleek’s Law
Jeet Heer’s recent post refers to it as “Negative Partisanship”, but it does go a long way to explaining the tactic and the strategy
Tenar Arha
@Humboldtblue: It doesn’t work like that. Anyway historically it never did. The very fight for women’s suffrage, particularly in the South (but the North too) often used arguments based on women voters shoring up Jim Crow and other laws that supported white supremacy.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: You’re talking about the case. I’m talking about people who believe she herself molests or traffics in children.
J R in WV
@Matt McIrvin:
“…getting a medal for not hitting yourself with a hammer.”
You mean I was to have received a medal? Where’s my medal!!!
@J R in WV:
“good but deluded” is what that was supposed to say. a very few… duh. Should always proofread.
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
“just clueless and entitled.” And mean in spirit, don’t forget that part of the mix.
Jack the Second
And here I thought I’d never actually use the pie filter.
schrodingers_cat
@AnonPhenom: From the article you linked
Politics is a linear regression, what has happened in the past will repeat itself and Rs always win. What a thoughtful and original analysis from the so called liberal New Republic.
Bruuuuce
@Major Major Major Major: Not the current bunch; I agree that they gravitated there together. But, as with police, fire, and the military, tech is a place where it would be problematic if the current allotment increased, especially deliberately.
ArchTeryx
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: *raises wingclaw*
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t care if she “got him off”. The whole attack is wrong-headed especially from “liberals”
She never should have had to defend representing him. He gets a defense. She is not actually her client.
“Liberals” should be ashamed of themselves for even going down that road. It’s a baseless smear.
Humboldtblue
@Tenar Arha:
I also skipped class in my original comment and as was pointed out by others that played a bigger role as well. I tend to think of “white women” as those in my cohort, social circle or family (even here, some of these front pagers/commenters I have been reading for more than a decade) and can easily get tunnel vision and forget there is whole group proud and willing to support white supremacy.
LanceThruster
Look, I like and admire most all of you. Having a negative view of Hillary seems to be an unforgivable sin here. Still, I’ll call them as I see them. I consider that a sign of respect regardless of the topic.
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
I get that you’re defending her but I don’t think she needs a defense. It terrifies me that these people serve on juries. I hope they all dodge jury duty. They don’t understand the most basic elements of our system.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
The fact is that she chuckled at the reality of getting a child rapist off. The context is that the judicial system *can* be a farce. None of this negates my statement. You can be just as histrionic with cries of ‘fake news!’ as any Trumpanistas.
LAO
@Kay: Amen!
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
You’re getting bashed because your negative view of Hillary is based in Russian lies and right-wing propaganda. Because you’ve hated her for years, they were able to get you to believe anything they said about her, and you ate it up with a spoon and begged for more.
Why would you think we respect someone who can’t see through transparent lies and actually believes all of the stuff you’re spouting?
mouse tolliver
@Baud: Dan Lyons was a writer on Silicon Valley, which everyone thought was a satire of the tech industry’s toxic culture. Maybe he was trying to normalize the behavior we thought he was mocking.
J R in WV
@OzarkHillbilly:
It really is. Especially if it’s wet and you’re trying to finish a job involving sheetmetal roofing and a 22 ounce framing hammer. Ouch!
Villago Delenda Est
@LanceThruster: Your “negative view” is based on lies.
If there is a civil war, those like you will be treated as quislings. Deal with it.
Shalimar
@Major Major Major Major: Milo claims to be Jewish from grandmother Yiannopoulos whose name he adopted (his birth name was Hanrahan). I have never seen a legitimate reporter research and confirm that she existed. There is a possibility she is like his black husband: an invention to excuse his raging racism.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
No, I get why you’re frustrated that people are bashing Hillary for doing her job as a pro bono defense attorney. Unfortunately, enough people hate her and are suspicious of her every move that she needs to be defended for something as normal as doing pro bono work.
As a non-lawyer, I find it admirable that she realized that her client was not innocent and worked to come up with a plea bargain that was fair and in the interests of justice for everyone, including the guilty man.
But some people just hate her so much and so irrationally that they can’t even give her that much credit.
The Moar You Know
@Jack the Second: Why on Earth wouldn’t you?
In all honesty, it’s the only reason I’m still here. I find a few of the regulars intolerable, so they’ve gotten the treatment, and of course any of the BernieBros or other trolls go there immediately.
Major Major Major Major
@Bruuuuce: Absolutely agree. I was just saying that from reading the Stranger article I got the impression that we’re talking about a very small number of people who think they’re a lot more important than they are, aka people who love 300.
@Shalimar: I just assumed he didn’t actually hold anti-Semitic beliefs, or at least not ones that virulent and sincere. The racism and misogyny I never questioned.
LanceThruster
@Villago Delenda Est:
A statement not based on any fact with regards to my position on her. The whole “Hold your nose and vote Hillary because you’ve got no other option” acknowledges that she was a horribly flawed candidate. Her negative poll numbers were insanely high (fair or not) yet the DNC made her their standard bearer.
Remind me again how that worked out? Guess a few Russian ad buys and troll-bots is all it took despite her ample war chest.
Major Major Major Major
@The Moar You Know:
Glad we could help :)
Mnemosyne
@J R in WV:
Hey, I answered your question yesterday about the tall ships. The particular festival that Ruckus and I went to is in Dana Point and takes place every September, but I think they have a separate one at the Maritime Museum in San Diego.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
A Goldwater girl with results. I get it. My statement was correct. She chuckled about the case she handled defending a guilty rapist.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Yes, she was so horribly flawed that she got 3 million more votes than Trump did.
The Republicans successfully gerrymandered the country through voter suppression and propaganda and you blame … Hillary. Of course. Because you can’t accept that you got scammed, just like all the rest of Trump’s supporters.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: I had a negative view of Hillary for several decades too, until I woke up and realized that dozens of people were literally paid full-time for 25 years to think up horrible stories to spread about her. Considering that historically unprecedented level of scrutiny, to come out of it as clean as she has is approaching sainthood.
No, she isn’t perfect. I’m still happy I supported Obama in 2008 over someone who chose Mark Penn as her chief strategist. And I don’t agree with her on a lot of issues. But people who actually hate her can never articulate a good reason, because there aren’t any.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Hey, I realize that you’re fine with destroying the United States and turning us into a dictatorship that decides ahead of time what someone’s sentence should be. That’s why you supported Trump. I’m just not sure why you think the rest of us should be going along with your program.
J R in WV
@Bruuuuce:
We don’t really need to worry that much about right wing fascists in high-tech positions. There is something bad wrong with their thinking, which will lead to their quick failure in actually performing successfully in a real tech environment.
We had a new hire, good looking guy, well spoken, kept busy and productive for the 6 month probationary period, then fell off the map. Got random busy work tasks that needed to be done but were NOT a tech type of task.
Our offices were two person mostly, with a door if one needed quiet to do hard things. One summer an intern was placed in his office’s other work space. She almost immediately realized he wasn’t doing tech stuff, he was downloading porn and reselling DVDs to guys who wanted porn cheap.
He was in theory doing GIS work and publishing disks filled with layers of data. Had multiple hard drives filled with PORN, and it was disgusting porn, too. He went away, not to jail, but back to COBOL contractor work, at which I imagine he sucked there also.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
A little playlet for Lance:
US: Lance, look out! There’s a bear behind you!
LANCE: Ha! You can’t fool me. Russia Today told me that bears are just a myth you made up to make Hillary look good.
US: No, seriously, dude, there’s a fucking bear right behind you! Run!
LANCE: Only someone who supports a neoliberal Goldwater Girl would —
BEAR: RRRRAAAAAWWWWGGHHH!
END
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
That I supported Trump is a lie. Guess integrity is not your strong suit. Team Hillary’s puffing Trump as their preferred ‘Pied Piper’ candidate is why we’re saddled with the Cheeto Benito now. She played chicken with the fate of the nation in her pursuit of power.
Heckuva job, DNC.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: A plea bargain is not “getting someone off.” It’s how the vast majority of cases are decided.
What you’re admitting is that you hate her over something you’re too ignorant to understand in context. You might as well listen to Limbaugh. You’re the kind of easily-led sucker they love.
A Ghost to Not
@LanceThruster: You are doing Putin’s work. I hope you’re monetizing your treason.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
A reality series in the making.
Lance: Just for the record, it is my view is that pitting a shitty candidate against a horrendously shitty candidate and going for broke is possibly the worst idea in the history of bad ideas…but I suppose y’all know what you’re doing, so I guess I should really just relax.
matt
What amazes me about bros like this thruster here is how they have every bit as much entitled grievance as right wing assholes.
LAO
@LanceThruster: Wait, what? So the RNC’s refusal to push back against Trump and republican primary voters had nothing to do with Trump getting the nomination. It’s all Hillary’s fault? Fantastic.
ETA: Good luck to you.
No Drought No More
“But yeah, tell me how misogyny played no role in the 2016 election”.
Agreed. At the very least, women who voted for Trump must be self-loathing.
Nicole
Anyone who did anything other than vote for Hillary in the general supported Trump. Some folk were just to cowardly to do it openly.
Nicole
@No Drought No More:
We live in a society that tells Americans with two XX chromosomes that they are “less than” almost from birth. While I’m fucking pissed at the women I know who voted Trump (and I include those that voted 3rd party in that), woman are enculturated from very early to look down on our gender. For many of them, voting white over voting woman is about wanting to not accept they’re on the losing team. We’re told we’re losers from very early and it’s not fun.
LanceThruster
Re: Russia-gate.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@matt:
Bernie and Trump are the two sides of that coin, and their cults are identically full of credible dumbasses who were played like an orchestra.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: You should accept reality: Bernie lost the primary. I voted for him too, but it was over. Finito. Verklumpt. Your only choices were the shitty candidate and the horrendously shitty candidate. You clearly know which one was worse. If you didn’t vote for the better of the two, you should be apologizing for your stupidity.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@No Drought No More:
They voted for their white privilege and/or status that goes w/ being married to a white man, or they’re mindless adherents of a religious ideology that teaches that women are subservient. The women I know who are Trump supporters are very well off, but brain dead thanks to Fox.
Westyny
@LanceThruster:
Even though your calls are based on provable lies? How badly do you want to be here?
Major Major Major Major
LOL, did I see ‘thruster say the phrase “Goldwater girl” before the pie filter kicked in? What a dumbass fuckstick.
Shalimar
@Major Major Major Major: The strategy with the Clinton was to throw out thousands of negative stories that were either completely made up, or elicited a negative emotional response by leaving out and twisting context. “Goldwater girl” and the “laughed at getting a child racist off” are both very popular with left-wing misogynists who need an excuse but don’t believe most of the other made-up bullshit.
It doesn’t matter. The excuses aren’t the reason they started down this road, just little stories they latched on so other people don’t ridicule them.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Wait, a news source that’s funded by Russia says that Russia-Gate is fake?
Well, color me surprised. I sure didn’t see that plot twist.
Major Major Major Major
@Shalimar: Yeah, I know, it’s just such a fucking tell, lol. God, I would laugh my ass off and ignore him for the rest of the night if he said that to my face at a party.
Shalimar
@Mnemosyne: I looked up Consortium News because I was sure they were run by the Robert Perry of swiftboating Kerry fame. Turns out their editor is Robert Parry, and I actually found an editorial in Consortium News by him from August, 2004 condemning the swiftboat ads.
I can’t even see the article Lance tried to link, so I won’t bother researching further than that. Perhaps they are the rightwing site my memory said they were.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
If you didn’t vote for Hillary, you supported Trump.
You decided that fascism was preferable to a woman being president.
When those white supremacists marched in Charlottesville, they marched with your approval, because you decided that empowering white supremacists was less morally repugnant than voting for a woman for president.
As I keep saying, everyone here knows what you supported last year. You wanted anyone but Hillary, and you got exactly what you wanted. Why pretend that you’re unhappy with the outcome?
Tarragon
@Major Major Major Major:
I don’t know man. I’m not going to do a formal study but anecdotally I am way out numbered here.
Major Major Major Major
@Tarragon: by people going out of their way to recruit Nazis into your company? Because that’s what I’m trying to talk about here.
EDIT huh, it went away
Steeplejack
@LanceThruster:
Fixed bad link to Consortium News.
J R in WV
@LanceThruster:
Dude, you didn’t vote for anyone, you aren’t an American citizen. And you are supporting President Trump with every character you type.
Loser. Heck of a job, loser.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
Robert Parry is deeply involved with Russian propaganda sources. It’s a shame that he’s been suborned, but that’s what happened. He follows the Kremlin’s line now.
LanceThruster
@J R in WV:
William Charles on Facebook. I’m pretty consistent. Always welcome opposing views rather than try to exist in a bubble.
Miss Bianca
@Gin & Tonic: I just had to re-install Ad-block this morning. I know BJ needs the revenue, but honestly…I’m just going to have to step up my donation game. Or shop A-mart thru’ the link, because yeah…”borderline unreadable” is truly how I feel about the latest ad interations as well.
LanceThruster
@Steeplejack:
Thank you. Much obliged.
Shalimar
@Mnemosyne: I will file that in my memory for next time the site comes up.
Westyny
@LanceThruster:
But do fact based opposing views change your mind?
VeniceRiley
Reading @UnburntWitch completely PWNing Dan Lyons on Twitter this morning made my day. And reading replies to his fauxpology was my dessert.
LanceThruster
@LanceThruster:
From Counterpunch on Russia-gate.
Steeplejack
@Shalimar:
I fixed the link at 223. Also, Robert Parry has a Wikipedia entry that you can read.
I don’t think he, or Consortium News, is right-wing, but from the times I have gone to that site I think it does seem to tilt slightly into the “U.S. government automatically bad” zone. But some of that could be from Parry’s experience covering legitimately heinous stuff that the U.S. government actually did during the Reagan years, e.g., Iran-Contra. And it could relate to the site’s semi-muckraking focus.
But Parry got a legit award from the Nieman Foundation (the I.F. Stone Medal) as recently as 2015, so I don’t think he’s a nutter.
Shalimar
@Steeplejack: Good lord. Most of the way down that interminable piece, he admits that he knows nothing about IT or internet security. He’s just a historian asking questions, like all those brave souls on Ancient Aliens.
I do not understand why they think proving one thread in the sweater is yellow rather than red will cause the while thing to unravel. There are thousands of other threads that are clearly red.
Shalimar
@Steeplejack: I remember reading an article about him before, just didn’t recognize the name and connect it. He sounds like a man of consistent integrity. Which means no clue about the Russia apologia, except that I would believe some personal ideological reason before believing he was paid off or blackmailed.
Gin & Tonic
@Shalimar: Wow. Consortium News again? Is this a reincarnation of BiP?
Tarragon
@Major Major Major Major:
OBE. I requested deletion because the ground was well covered by the time I got there and clearly showed that I had misread your comment.
But… To the original point, there are a examples here that I could believe are going out of their way to recruit racist asshats. Actual organized Nazis is much harder to say.
Miss Bianca
@LanceThruster: Well, gotta say that when you repeat this kind of bullshit, “calling it like I see it” means you are a fool and a misogynist, and therefore, neither respectable nor admirable. The “unforgiveable sin” in your case is willful stupidity.
Steve in the ATL
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Yeah, I’m pretty awesome
Chitown Kev
@Major Major Major Major: Exactly…and I hate the use of that phrase ”voting against their best interest” for exactly that reason.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack: I agree about Parry. He has his blind spots, no doubt, but he shouldn’t be smeared as Putin’s dupe just because an ignorant liar who guzzles Breitbart propaganda and pukes it up here linked him in this thread.
LanceThruster
@Westyny:
I like to think that I come to my views based on facts. Any in particular you want to challenge?
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
@Betty Cracker:
Unfortunately, Parry is all-in on denying Russian involvement in the election. I don’t know why, but he is. If you Google “consortium news russiagate” you’ll find dozens of stories disputing every aspect of Russia’s involvement.
And I have to giggle when someone then brings up Counterpunch as a totally not biased towards Russia news source. What’s next, claiming that the Intercept is a totally unbiased source when it comes to Russia?
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
This is seriously the funniest thing you’ve written so far.
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: BiP linked to him all the time. He struck me as a Woodward kind of guy – had one good story two or three decades ago and has been dining out on it ever since.
BC in Illinois
I would like to speak in favor of the Pie Filter. I made it all the way down to the comments in the 240s (even though I knew by the 100s that there was a name to be filtered out) so that I could delete that name.
It is always possible, for those of you who have not tried it, to click on the comment that has been filtered out, in order to see if you are missing something in the filtered comments and their replies.
It has been my experience that I am missing nothing. The only thing that the comments filtered would offer me is more evidence that a Pie-Filter-Worthy person exists.
I don’t need any more evidence.
LanceThruster
@Miss Bianca:
Or…it’s like this.
geg6
@LanceThruster:
Did you vote for Hillary? No? Then you supported Trump. Because a vote for anyone else is a vote for Trump.
You are fucking idiot.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Sanders got 3 million fewer votes from Democrats.
Not fewer superdelegates. Not fewer shouters at the caucuses. Fewer votes.
And you wanted to throw away those votes and install your God as the candidate no matter what actual voters wanted. You know, kind of like how Trump was installed as president despite getting 3 million fewer votes than Hillary did.
Remind me, what makes you different from a Trump supporter, again?
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne & @Gin & Tonic: I hear ya — I think Parry is dead wrong about the Russia thing, FWIW. I just don’t want to fall into the trap of assuming journalistic malpractice and/or bias automatically means someone is on Putin’s payroll. Idiots like LimpThrasher muddy the waters enough by mindlessly regurgitating smears and lies.
LanceThruster
I’m still trying to find it, but I made a comment here pre-Dem nomination convention that proved to be prescient. I was challenged that I wouldn’t show my face after the big Dem win. I said that Hillary generated so little enthusiasm with a large portion of the base, that people would stay home and it would hurt the downticket races as well. ‘BLUE no matter WHO,’ I argued, would work with Bernie as the candidate (unless Hillary supporters were lying) but not Hillary, particularly with the primary shenanigans. ‘Her Turn’ does not a compelling campaign strategy make.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: We have heard the apologia 1000 times. Hillary didn’t keep your noble knight from jousting in the finals, nor did the DNC or superdelegates. He lost the primary vote, by a larger margin than Clinton lost it by in 2008. Didn’t win. Doesn’t get to advance in the tournament. You might as well blame Christian Laettner. It’s equally relevant.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
I realize I’m a little paranoid about the Russia thing, but when sites like Russophile are helping to boost Parry’s Kickstarter to raise money, it makes me wonder. Hang on, I’ll be right back with the link I found.
ETA: Linky.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: So you chose to sit on your ass screaming “I told you so” instead of trying to get all of your fellow Bernie voters enthusiastic about opposing someone who you admit is a lot worse? You do realize why that makes you an asshole, right?
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Yes, we realize that lefties like yourself preferred out-and-proud white supremacist Donald Trump rather than risk having Hillary as president.
The fact that you have no problem with Trump and think he’s preferable to Hillary is the problem here.
Betty Cracker
@LanceThruster: Okay. You showed your face. (And your ass.) You can fuck off now.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
“Tried to paint”? Bernie is by his own profession an atheist of Jewish heritage.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
If you didn’t vote for Hillary, then you are just as responsible for all of the suffering that Trump has caused and likely will cause. It’s not just him, it’s the Congress and the Supreme Court too, that fucking shit up. He’s destroying our global position and ruining millions of lives. Like what’s happening Puerto Rico right now. Hillary would at least be handling that compently.
Tell a Puerto Rican without clean water that you hate Trump but are glad Hillary lost.
The fact is this: you failed as a human being to stand up to fascism and treason because you hated Clinton that much that you allowed yourself to be influenced by propaganda. You’re going to have to live with that for the rest of your miserable life.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Wikileaks showed collaboration with media and Team Hillary to neutralize Sanders. Many times I saw news outlets cover an empty Trump podium with Bernie in a little box in the corner while giving a speech. DWS stepped down for her perfidy (though was still rewarded with a plum appointment with Team Hillary). Bernie ran his campaign competitively with small donors. What did Hillary’s mighty war chest buy? A belief that they could ignore progressives as they gained moderate Republicans in swing states (as per Schumer). Bernie’s team members working with Hillary’s team begged them not to ignore certain key states. They were convinced they could coast to the finish line. She did not even have a concession speech prepared!
LanceThruster
@Amir Khalid:
Paint as a negative. A strategy as in, ‘Do you really want a godless Jew as president?’
LanceThruster
@Betty Cracker:
Was banned for whatever reason for quite some time here. Have a history at this place. Even a lengthy cat death piece that went over quite well. Filter me or use your connections to get me banned again, if you choose. I’ll continue to work to make Trump a one term disaster, but it won’t be from denying what went wrong this last election cycle. The strident “We don’t need you!” has already reared its ugly head again.
Good luck with that.
Cacti
@ Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) :
If you d
Yep.
The barbarians were at the gate, but the “too pure for Hillary” crowd rolled over and said “meep!”.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
They never went through with it though. It was only ever between two low-level employees. That’s the part you’re being dishonest about.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
Probably for being a trollish, contrarian asshole.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: Did it ever occur to you that the media covering Trump’s empty podium with a Sanders event in the corner didn’t have Clinton on the screen at all except for a chyron that read “HILLARY EMAILS WTF?!?!?!?!?!”?
As for all those wonderful small donors whose money was wasted on massive tv ad buys that made Tad Devine over $10 million in fees, here’s a conspiracy theory for you: what if thousands of those small donors were Russian cutouts helping Devine launder money to friendly media conglomerates like Sinclair and Fox?
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Re-check those dates on the emails. All of the supposed “collaboration” happened AFTER Sanders could no longer win the primary and was trying to get the superdelegates to overturn the actual VOTES CAST.
And you were spoon-fed that narrative by Russian hackers. I’m starting to see a pattern here ..
They did the exact same thing to Hillary. Multiple times. But I guess you didn’t mind it when it was done to her.
It’s true, the epic whining from the Berniebros after they fell for Russian propaganda forced DWS to step down. Gosh, I wonder if the Russian-created chaos at the DNC caused any loss off effectiveness?
She.
Won.
The.
Primary.
Also won the popular vote.
Nobody said that Hillary’s campaign was perfect — not even Hillary says that. But given what we now know about voter suppression and Russian propaganda in Wisconsin and Michigan, do you really want to claim that it was all the campaign’s fault?
She.
Won.
The.
Popular.
Vote.
You’d think that the fact that Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump would make you guys start to wonder if the election had been tampered with, but you just can’t look at anything to do with Hillary rationally. If she lost on a technicality, it must have been all her own fault, because reasons.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: You seriously think the Trump campaign wouldn’t have cranked the atheist Jew rhetoric from 1 all the way up to 10? I don’t recall anyone working directly for the Clinton campaign ever mentioning either of those issues. They were trying to run an above the fray campaign.
I was a Sanders supporter and still like him a lot, but don’t try to pretend he was flawless and wouldn’t have been slimed mercilessly running against Trump.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
Betty Cracker is a front-pager. Were she so inclined she could ban you herself, if she rolled that way.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
Given what we know about the massive extent of Russian money laundering that Trump is aiding and abetting, that has occurred to me as well.
It would be pretty easy for experienced money launderers to conceal illegal donations in those small $27 amounts and never have the campaign staff realize what was going on.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
So let me get this straight. You think WikiLeaks is a reliable source? Dude, there’s a strong preponderance of evidence that suggests WikiLeaks is a Russian-controlled outlet. Their fingerprints are all over the latest Catalan independence referendum. Wikileaks, through Assunge, was pushing it hard on Twitter, along with Snowden. This fits with Putin’s strategy to try to undermine the West by stoking divisions. A weakened West shattered into squabbling small ethnic states will allow Russia to possibly expand, economically, diplomatically, and perhaps territorially without interference. I wouldn’t believe anything WikiLeaks says.
Oh and the “moderate Republicans” jab is just great for party unity. It seems to me, that Real True Progressives never seem to win in red states or even swing states that often. I wonder why? Could it be that more factors than just economics are at play in these places? Nah.
Amir Khalid
@LanceThruster:
That’s not how you said it.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
Trump boosted an ad that had Hillary against a background of dollar bills with six-pointed stars that looked like Stars of David and talked about her connections to “bankers.”
But Lance thinks that anti-Semite Steve Bannon would have left Bernie alone and never once used it against him. Riiiiiiight.
Betty Cracker
@LanceThruster: I know you have a history here, but I’m afraid it doesn’t really make your transformation into a peddler of debunked wingnut lies very interesting. I didn’t ban your sorry ass. I don’t ban for stupid — just racism, sexism, doxxing, etc. I have a feeling you’ll get there eventually. I’ll be waiting. With a mallet.
Westyny
@LanceThruster:
Jeezus, the entire thread has busted your bubble with non-RT supported links. You are not what you purport to be, even to yourself in the dark watches of the night. But you are the very model of a modern major asshole. Nice you can live with yourself.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: I remember you from the old days. You’re welcome here for any subject other than “it was all Hillary’s fault, you should all just agree with me.” Though it would be nice if you laid off the Russia apologia too.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid:
I found that amusing as well.
Gin & Tonic
Folks, don’t complain about a thread being derailed if you spend all day engaging with a troll.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
@Shalimar:
I also remember him, which is why I keep saying that he’s a dupe, not a troll.
Something must have broken in the Russian propaganda outlets on the left recently, because I just had this same go-round yesterday with a different formerly sane commenter who’s also gone around the bend with anti-Hillary conspiracy theories. I wonder what it was.
Mnemosyne
Also, in with a classic movie quote before the dupe comes back to claim he’s the Only Sane Man:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Shalimar: I’m also sure the Trump would have had an ad saying “Bernie will triple your taxes and make you go to the DMV to get your health care”.
Shalimar
@Mnemosyne: I am being really hard on him picking out all the inconsistencies in what he writes, but I did like him in the past. I wouldn’t waste my time if I hadn’t.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
It’s one of the things that makes me feel like I’m Kevin McCarthy in Invasion of the Body Snatchers. People who used to be normal now believe in crazy conspiracy theories pushed by Russian propagandists, and it’s creepy as hell.
LanceThruster
Too much vitriol in the gang tackle to try to address each one (which I generally try to do). Not much of a response to ‘fuck off asshole’ or its equivalent anyway. Winning the popular vote may be soothing but that’s not how presidential elections are decided. If labeling a site as compromised means you can ignore any facts provided, knock yourself out.
The DNC primary was rigged, and there’s evidence of such. Russia depriving Hillary of her rightful place on the throne (for which there’s scant evidence) is the new conspiracy to be taken at face value. Next she’ll be claiming to dodge sniper fire again (but *I’m* the liar because I missed whatever context her stolen valor involved).
I’d suggest some Jimmy Dore Show to regain a toehold in reality. Sure, it might be painful, but it will beat the hell out of a second term for Cheetolini.
Westyny
@Shalimar:
I don’t like him now, though. And I don’t want to know at whom he imagines he’s thrusting his pathetic little lance.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Actually, there isn’t. The only “evidence” is that some DNC staffers wrote internal emails that expressed impatience with Bernie when he refused to concede after losing the nomination by 3 million votes. But I realize that you’re too far up Putin’s asshole to accept that.
Ah, the “scant evidence” claim. Yes, Newsweek and the Washington Post must be ignored in favor of Consortium
News and Wikileaks because reasons.
And it cracks me up when the same people who wanted the DNC to invalidate the votes of 3 million Democrats whine that Hillary expected to be “coronated.” What do you call it when the guy who lost the election insists he should be handed the victory anyway?
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne: It reminds me of after 9/11, when some formerly sane people turned into raving Islamophobes. In a way, this is even LESS explicable — I mean, there was and is absolutely no explanation other than bigotry for lumping all Muslims in with AQ, but at least that pack of newly out-and-proud bigots had an ongoing threat they could point to as an excuse for their lunacy.
That’s not the case here. Hillary’s not going to run again, so why continue spreading vicious lies about her? And if Sanders runs in 2020, his fanboys will need HRC voters on board to win the primary. So why would they deliberately be so offensive as to make us prefer to spend time with a rabid skunk in a dumpster than tolerate their company? It just doesn’t make sense.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Funny you should mention those outlets.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
Oh please, how pathetic. “Getting called out on my bullshit gives me a SAD!!!” Wanker.
1. I’m not just “labeling” WikiLeaks compromised. I provided evidence to suggest that it in fact is compromised. Why should anyone trust an outfit that is?
2. You gotta love the hypocrisy. THE DNC primary was rigged but Russian interference is a conspiracy theory? I’m sorry but our intelligence community says otherwise. And please provide actual evidence for your claims not just assertions of such. Oh and hour long YouTube videos or links to millions of unsorted email dumps, or untrustworthy news sources won’t cut it.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
You know what else is funny? That the WaPo is one of the few effective news organizations reporting on Trump and Putin.
?
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Wow, a crazy woman who thinks Jeff Bezos secretly works for the CIA and that Dave Weigel is a Democrat says the Washington Post is a CIA front!
Gosh, I sure find that convincing. Thanks for showing us the quality of “journalists” you’re basing your opinions on, and I hope the removal of your CIA spy chip goes well.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
It’s the misogyny. Seriously. Seeing a woman candidate for president drove them around the fucking bend, and they’re never coming back. A world where women have power scares the fuck out of them.
LanceThruster
@Betty Cracker:
Those questioning the official narrative of 9/11 are part of the frontline of defense against Islamophobia. Convenient patsies play on preexisting biases. Got a lot of innocent people killed in Iraq (which IIRC, Hillary claimed she was duped into believing).
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mnemosyne:
Really. I feel like I’m trapped in an “Alien Conspiracy Mythos” X-Files episode.
I’m waiting for Mulder and Sculley to knock at door at any moment.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Another goddamn lie (run out of coherent points, have you?). Gladly supported Jill Stein. Looking forward to supporting Tulsi Gabbard and/or Nina Turner. Kamala Harris seems more of the neoliberal same-same, but it’s quite early in the process.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
Please tell us how jet fuel couldn’t possibly melt through steel beams, oh brave truther.
Westyny
@LanceThruster:
Wow. OK, there. Get it all out, right here on the sidewalk. Don’t worry about the gawkers. Hey! What are y’all looking at? Dude needs a doctor!
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
Still it is an advancement. How many still do hit themselves in the head with a hammer?
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: Ok, properly filed as raving lunatic now. I’m done. Only pie in the future.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Must be misogyny if you dismiss Caitlyn. Maybe Norman Solomon will cut it for you?
Ruckus
@OzarkHillbilly:
In the head? Sure fingers/thumbs but in the head? And repeatedly.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
Jesus Christ. You voted for Jill fucking Stein!? My god you are fucking stupid. Are vaccines a CIA-plot to obtain our precious bodily fluids? Unwell inquiring minds want to know.
Westyny
@LanceThruster:
Ok, NOW it comes out.
the Conster
@Shalimar:
Two nights before the election Bernie tweeted that he didn’t believe that people thinking of voting for Trump were racist or sexist – greenlighting his BernieorBusters’ to follow their racist and sexist motivations to Trump. He also told his campaign that they were to always have a $10M war chest – coincidentally the exact same amount of that mystery donation that all came in from DC in $35 increments in one day, that his campaign never filed for after the FEC asked him to itemize it. Perhaps to pay it back if it came to that. He never provided proof of repayment of his hundreds and hundreds of foreign donations that he was cited by the FEC for. He gamed the FEC personal financial disclosure system, paid Devine millions through Tad and Jane’s Old Towne Media ad buy shop, and Devine and Manafort worked together in Ukraine for Putin’s client, along with Facebook who did in Ukraine what they did here. The Steele dossier says there was a Russian asset in the Democratic party side of Putin’s collusion. All coincidences, I’m sure. Don’t get me started on Jill Stein.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: Even if it is true, a $600 million contract is a tiny fraction of a percent of Amazon’s income. It isn’t even 1% of Bezos’ personal net worth. That does not make Amazon or the Washington Post a CIA subsidiary or front. If anything, it would be the other way around.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
So you support women who are no threat to male hegemony because they have no chance of winning, but you’re not going to support Kamala Harris, a woman who may actually have a shot at winning.
Which is exactly what I just said. Thanks for confirming it.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Gosh, the other crazy person you quoted has a penis! Now I’m convinced it’s all true!
Ruckus
@Humboldtblue:
Is it possible that some women like assholes? I do find it difficult to understand but there has to be some explanation.
LanceThruster
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Since accurate representation is considered essential here, this deals with the anti-vaxxer smear.
I have no problem supporting a peace candidate. Post election analysis showed that only 6% to 12% of Bernie supporters voted for Trump, whereas somewhere in the neighborhood of 24% of Hillary supporters voted for McCain/Palin after her loss to Obama. Fortunately for Obama, there were enough misogynists to reject the eminently qualified Palin. How quickly they forget PUMAs.
Fair Economist
@Betty Cracker:
We are way past the point that any reasonable person could say Russia didn’t intervene in the election. The troll armies, paid ads on Facebook, Russian tags on many pro-Trump posts – the evidence has been overwhelming for months. Anybody insisting it didn’t happen with any knowledge of news is pushing an agenda, and it’s hard to see any agenda for doing this other than being a Russian stooge of some type. Maybe certain Republican stooges, but at this point it’s almost the same thing.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah…Normon Solomon is pretty much a nobody. It’s easier to dismiss him than acknowledge the Bezos/WP/CIA link.
Hard to keep the allegiances straight. Whistleblowing on Shrubya good, anyone else bad.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
I can tell you what the contract is for without even looking it up — the CIA is renting space in Amazon’s server farm, like thousands of other companies and government agencies.
But the CIA doing the exact same thing as hundreds of other companies and government agencies is uniquely suspicious because reasons.
And, yeah, I’m not really surprised that all of these lefties are trying to take down the one American newspaper that’s actually doing a good job of opposing Trump. If they succeed, Teen Vogue is next, and I fully expect Lance to be screeching about their CIA connections as soon as that happens.
the Conster
@Fair Economist:
The Steele dossier says clearly that there were 3 elements Russia and the Trump campaign used against Clinton. The first was Russian agents/facilitators in the Democratic Party structure itself. Considering who benefited from the DNC hacks and the timing of the wikileaks leaks – exactly every time something big dropped on Trump – the RU asset is Devine and/or Bernie. The Steele dossier has been remarkably accurate. Lance is an idiot, a traitor and a racist sexist fraud just like his traitorous racist sexist fraud messiah Bernie.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: Who is Norman Solomon that I am supposed to recognize him as a non-nobody?
Edit: Also, too, she has now acknowledged your CIA-AMAZON link ans says it means nothing without additional evidence of anything whatsoever nefarious, which you and Solomon don’t provide.
The Moar You Know
@Fair Economist: Problem for them, from a “making the interference obvious” viewpoint, is that they’ve never stopped. Just look at this goddamn thread.
chopper
@LanceThruster:
HAHAHA oh, you are just adorable.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
And by “supporting a peace candidate,” you ensured that the guy who wants to drop a nuke on North Korea got elected.
But I guess that as long as you can bask in your self-righteousness, you don’t care that your vote had the exact opposite effect of the one you claim it did.
Fair Economist
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve seen this, and I think we are dealing with “deep agents” – people who have been paid by the Kremlin for years to steer the conversation. Some were paid to be kooks, but some were paid to be serious-sounding commenters with useful things to say. We *are* talking about the Russians here – spymasters par excellence, and don’t forget where Putin got started.
So far I’ve mostly been seeing them continue their mostly-reasonable posts, except that they continue to spout the Kremlin line on Russian interference, long after it’s become hopelessly untenable. I guess their paymasters have instructed some of them to “go around the bend” and start talking crazy all the time – I have no idea why, but I’m guessing there are reasons. My one guess is to bury intelligent discussion of Russian interference in a pile of nuttiness so it’s hard to find and most posters don’t participate.
Fair Economist
@The Moar You Know:
Yes, exactly. Seeing this stuff has made me realize “Holy ****, they’ve been paying bloggers all along?” It’s a frightening thought, and 200 billion will pay for a lot of full-time bloggers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as long as you’re pulling numbers out of your ass, I’d like to be…. oh, let’s say, 32. 32 was a good age.
Shalimar
The striking thing is that other than the Russia apologia and theory that Jeff Bezos owns the CIA, nothing Lance wrote would have been out of place from a Burner on November 9th, 2016. Nothing Trump has done nor anything they have heard has changed a single thing they say, regardless of how thoroughly discredited an argument is.
Fair Economist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Our little agent is actually right about Hillary/McCain supporters. There were a lot of them, and more than Sanders/Trump. But they weren’t genuine Hillary supporters, or genuine Sanders supporters. They were overwhelmingly concentrated in very conservative area. Mostly they were just Republican r*tf*ckers trying to mess up the Democratic primary (remember Limbaugh’s Operation Chaos?). There were fewer this time because some of them were actively voting for Trump, and probably some had finally registered Republican and so couldn’t vote for Sanders.
Betty Cracker
@Fair Economist: Agreed, but Parry doesn’t insist that it didn’t happen, AFAIK. As I said, I don’t agree with everything Parry writes, but he’s not a nutter, even if flaming nutbags link old articles to bolster their pathetic and deeply stupid theories.
the Conster
@Mnemosyne:
Actually I missed this comment earlier, and have now become convinced of this. Also racism, but black and hispanic men voted for Trump in numbers they shouldn’t have because they don’t believe a woman should have that kind of power over them. Misogyny is the final frontier.
the Conster
@Shalimar:
Agreed. What that tells me is that Putin is a fucking genius, and that everyone who believes in reality and the values of this country need to get behind black women who were immune to all the bullshit.*
except for Nina Turner and Omarosa, their cult leaders’ respective “African American”.
Shalimar
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Even if his numbers are true, it still doesn’t make him any less responsible for Trump. He saw the greater evil, and voted for a stuffed animal rather than someone who could stop it.
Mnemosyne
@the Conster:
Yeah, it was still very, very small numbers of Black and Latino men, but there was a statistically significant uptick of 2 or 3 percentage points over 2012.
Black men were still WAY more sensible than white men, though. It was, like, 6 to 8 percent of Black men and 64 percent of white men.
the Conster
@Mnemosyne:
77,000 votes in 3 states tipped the EC. That’s like statistical noise, so it was a perfect storm. White men voted up to 90% for Trump in some upper midwest counties, and throughout the South. We can’t ask any more from non-whites/males. The white men own all of this. ALL OF IT. White women do too, but not as much. The huge pool of voters that only 2 or 3% would make all the difference is white men. 5% of white men consistently voting Dem would be a landslide in favor of Dems every election, but they just fucking won’t.
Mnemosyne
@Fair Economist:
I think a lot of them are honestly deluded — they started out on the slippery slope by buying into 9/11 truther bullshit and just devolved down from there. I think Wikipedia is VASTLY underestimated as a source of Russian propaganda since the Iraq War started.
Have I mentioned lately that BiP used to try and contact me through my blog when he got banhammered? Either he was a really, really dedicated paid troll, or he was honestly deluded.
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
You aren’t the first to make this argument. And Adam had a comment the other day about how we are at war. It’s a different war than a shooting war but it is war.
It’s a lot harder to repel because you don’t really see it coming, you don’t see the enormity of it and how do you actually fight it? It’s basically “1984,” where everything is a lie and you either have only one source of information or too many sources. I think people trust the MSM because they don’t really know who else to trust. I am of the generation that exemplified the “Don’t Trust the Government,” line. There was good reason for that I think, at the time. And today, look at congress. Half of congress is either/or/and grifters, liars, religious nuts, tea party left overs, anti government…. These people can not be trusted with your life. This doesn’t even take into account who is in the WH. So they believe the “independent news media,” which is mostly anything but. Most people don’t want to spend the time searching through the layers/levels of crap, even if they have the time. A perfect storm for an underground propaganda assault.
There is fortunately a still large segment of the population that doesn’t buy the bullshit, but it’s still some times difficult sorting out reality from the onslaught. How many here are up to “Just Can’t Anymore?”
Adam is right, we are at war. For our survival it seems. We have some flaws in our system that make it difficult to fix something as bad as drumpf, because we have to depend on people that are getting paid a lot to look the other way or even go out of their way to make things worse. No one pictured the worst case 200+ yrs ago. They couldn’t, the tools that make it possible didn’t exist then. A lot of those tools didn’t really exist 20 yrs ago, at least not in a viable form. They are here today and good enough to give us this shitstorm.
Fair Economist
Well, if it’s his *living*, of course he’s dedicated! Which is another thing that makes me think “paid”. We all say stupid stuff from time to time, and when it’s factual, if we get really spanked on it we tend to change the subject and talk about something else. But these posters keep droning on and on with the nonsense. Not that “real” people never get hung up on the crazy stuff, but it’s less likely, while if somebody is being paid to push a certain position, he’s never going to stop.
Fair Economist
@Ruckus: Agreed this is a new kind of war.
I don’t find it *that* hard to dodge the fake news, at least most of the time. It takes a little work, but the principle of verifying any substantive claim with some skeptical googling works well enough. I think it’s telling that the Macedonian fake news factories reported they tried putting out both leftist and rightist fake news, but only the rightist stuff made money, because leftists would factcheck enough to at least make it unprofitable. I think a lot of the crazy stuff coming from the “loony left” is still being funded by the Russians, which is why Facebook is dragging its feet on letting the info out. They don’t want to lose the business.
the Conster
@Ruckus:
All of this is true, but it’s all come to a head around the challenge to white male supremacy, and the ways that white men have shown their asses around the success of Obama and Hillary. Putin weaponized that. He hated them both intensely, and found more than willing allies here.
Ruckus
@the Conster:
I wrote something, erased it. Twice.
Really I have nothing to add, white males in this country really are shitheads. And I’m in that demographic. I worked for President Obama’s election both times, and worked this time for HRC, I guess I’m a traitor to my demographic. Sure does feel a lot better than being a well accepted member.
Mnemosyne
@the Conster:
Yeah, I don’t want to make too much of it. I think the slight uptick was due to misogyny, but that doesn’t excuse the massive wave of white male racism and misogyny that put Trump over the top.
LanceThruster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
But I pulled these numbers out of the ass of Jeff Bezos’ WP. And accepted source, no? Is everything that rattles your cage ‘fake news?’
Mnemosyne
@Ruckus:
I was looking up my favorite moment from Mark Twain, and it turns out that Rachel Held Evans also thinks it’s the most moral passage in American literature.
Yes, it’s Huck Finn, at the moment when he accepts that rejecting the conventional morality that says that Jim has to be returned to slavery means that Huck will end up going to Hell, and Huck is okay with that.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
It depends on where those voters were located, since the whole election turned on 77,000 votes. If they lived in New York or California, their votes didn’t matter. If they lived in Wisconsin or Michigan, they flipped the Electoral College to Trump.
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
It isn’t that difficult, it just takes time, something that a lot of people don’t have. I work with a guy who has to take his daughter to his in-laws every day then drive back to get to work. His wife works about 30 miles away so it’s the train or drive. They’d like to have a life and enjoy things just a little as well. They just don’t find the time to be detectives for all the bullshit pushed at them. And of course this is part of the war, one can push bullets or one can push bullshit. And bullshit is easier to push than bullets, if you lose you aren’t dead, just not where you want to be. If you don’t get caught, you can just keep on pushing.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
I must be Huck Finn then.
I’m also reminded about a West Wing show where Toby is discussing the death penalty with his rabbi and the rabbi says (I’m not quoting, this is from memory) “I know what it says in the Torah, but it’s just wrong. It may have been right back then but today it’s just wrong.” Thinking people who have any grasp of logic can see that religious writings from hundreds or thousands of years ago can not be directly applied to life today. They couldn’t actually then either but that’s a different story. Religious writings were supposed to be parables, not absolute truth. Life then was, as it still is, not a zero sum game. Over time the sum has gotten larger not smaller so there is even less reason today to act like it is zero.
J R in WV
@Mnemosyne:
Hey, thanks. I’ll look it up and see if they do it in the early spring, which is when we’re most likely to be out there touring.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: Aren’t you the one saying the Washington Post is doing something something with the CIA and can’t be trusted? Did I miss the comment where you decided crying “fake news” at anything you don’t like is a bad thing?
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Also I looked at my pics and boy did I bring the wrong lens. In great focus, but every thing looked like toy boats, not actual sailing vessels less than a mile away. My phone would have been better. IOW nice camera, dumb ass operator.
VeniceRiley
Can the Gish Galloping fwit be banned? Thanks
the Conster
@Ruckus:
You’re my hero, which is how low a bar white men have to cross in my book, no offense. The most frustrating thing is that all the things that so called white male progressive Bernieorbuster types want will only ever be possible by giving Dems a mandate at the local, state and federal levels and then pushing left, but their pale male asses will not compromise or step aside and let women and POC take the lead. They’re so fucking blind to their privilege, that they would rather see the rest of us suffer than let us lead them to to their own self-defined promised land. Putin knows more about them than they know about themselves.
LanceThruster
@Shalimar:
My vote didn’t make a damn bit of difference. I live in CA, all of whose electoral votes went for Clinton. It is the height of sophistry to berate others for not voting for your candidate, and then declare that their not getting enough votes to win is some sort of profound truth. Join the club, eh Sparky?
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
The votes for Jill Stein in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania were more than Trump’s margin of victory over Hillary.
Nice job electing Trump. I hope you’re proud that you, too, helped to “trump that bitch.”
Westyny
@LanceThruster:
The poltroon is giving a brief lecture on sophistry . . .
LanceThruster
@Shalimar:
Bezos got $600m as CIA contractor. I found the links elsewhere (NPR for one), buy both figures were combined here. Team BJ has said WP is an impeccable siurce so I used it. Spend too much yime going round and round on stugf like this as you routinely ignore the salient points.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: You yourself said earlier it was a choice between a shitty candidate and a horrendously shitty candidate. I don’t recall you ever saying anything bad about Trump, even though you acknowledge what he is. You spend all your energy bitching about the better of our 2 options, by your own acknowledgement. In an election that was almost a year ago.
LanceThruster
@Shalimar:
Bezos got $600m as CIA contractor. I found the links elsewhere (NPR for one), buy both figures were combined here. Team BJ has said WP is an impeccable siurce so I used it. Spend too much yime going round and round on stugf like this as you routinely ignore the salient points. 2x try
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: As Mnemosyne pointed out, Amazon got $600 million from the CIA for use of space on their server farms, the same deal hundreds of other companies and organizations get. You have not pointed out anything unusual or potentially corrupt about the deal. The CIA needs data storage, just like any other organization. Her points were what I would have said, so I didn’t see any reason to repeat them. You didn’t really answer the salient point of why an ordinary business deal means everything connected with Amazon and Bezos is now corrupt.
LanceThruster
@Shalimar:
Well now we’re getting somewhere. I think Hillary would have had us fighting in Syria. Her loss spared us and the Syrian people that bloodshed. And the Russians are the good guys there no less. I also feel Hillary would be rattling the saber with regards to Iran. The difference between Trump and Hillary as far as foreign affairs go, is that much of the left would be cheering her aggression. At least with Trump, they’re against it.
Ruckus
@the Conster:
None taken.
Groups who think that they can have it all are so full of shit these days. Look at any actual parliamentarian government these days. None of them can do anything without working with at least one other group, sometimes several groups. They have to form coalitions or they get nothing done. Our system is laid out around 2 groups. They have to work together or the whole falls apart. Since newt screwed the pooch we have been getting farther and farther apart and working together less and less. Old white men have been fucking up for a long time. The concept that they should step aside and prove that isn’t true is what they fear the most. Because they know it is true. Life isn’t better for anyone but people with far more than enough money. And it doesn’t need to be that way.
I’m pretty much ready to never vote for another old white man the rest of my days. Just out of self preservation.
LanceThruster
@chopper:
There’s been 9/11 discussions at BJ before. Wasn’t one-sided at all. Brought it up because it seemed I was being lumped in Islamophobes (sadly, a lot of my godless bretheren seem guilty of that).
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Yes, those “good guy” Russians are bombing hospitals in Syria again.
I hate to think what they’d be doing in Syria if they were bad guys. But what are a few bombed maternity hospitals between friends, right?
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
Here’s a bit from the story on the Atlantic:
So, like dozens if not hundreds of other companies and government agencies, the CIA contracted with Amazon to provide cloud computing services — space on the Amazon server farm.
In Lance’s mind, this is PROOF POSITIVE that Jeff Bezos himself is a CIA operative, because Lance is a loon who jumps to conclusions based on zero evidence.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
This so fucking stupid and Mnem destroys it.
Mnemosyne
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
I’m waiting for Lance to decide that it doesn’t matter because it happened two whole weeks ago, and who remembers that far back?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@LanceThruster:
You’re not an islamophobe, you’re just a loon who believes in bonafide conspiracy theories. You’ll buy into 9/11 conspiracy theories, Jeff Bezos being a CIA opeative simply because the CIA bought up some space for computing storage at Amazon, but won’t believe that Russians influenced last year’s election in any capacity despite our intelligence community’s opinion, all of the coincidences of T campaign officials meeting with Russians, and Trump firing the FBI Director when he wouldn’t drop the investigation into him and his campaign. You don’t think there’s something there? Oh and you prattle on about how the Russians are the good guys in Syria when they’ve bombed hospitals. You’re either a paid troll or you’re a brainwashed stooge. Given your history, it’s the latter.
Shalimar
He was an opponent of Pam Gellar and the other big islamophobes back in the day iirc, so might as well trust him that hasn’t changed. Just heavily brainwashed by Russian propaganda now. They’re the good guys.
Mnemosyne
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Lance’s hero Robert Parry is all in on letting Russia bomb hospitals in Syria in the name of defeating American hegemony.
How the mighty have fallen. Parry is now just another Russian apologist.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Did our paste-eating friend really advocate for “peace candidate” Tulsi Gabbard?
Shalimar
@Mnemosyne: Yeah. That is the last time I ever read Parry. Things would improve if the U.S. media would stop demonizing al-Assad and Putin. They’re wonderful guys if you get to know them.
Westyny
Stein = LaRouche. It can’t be reasoned with, only mocked before it is banned so that reasonable jackals can get on wit their endless quest for food. I have enjoyed his public pantsing, though. I needed a refresher course on debunking Hilary hate.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, funny how a strong early Sanders supporter turned out to be a right-wing, war-loving nutjob.
I’m suspecting some Russian ‘bots helped push her to internet fame, but I’m suspicious that way.
the Conster
@Westyny:
Hillary hate is the common denominator. That’s all you need to know. Obama was ready to hand over the keys to a sweet sweet ride and keep all the progress we’ve made in place. But Bernie and Trump and the Russians played them all. It’s a tragedy they’re all complicit in, because they refuse to see beyond the white male privilege they swim in.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
The US is backing head choppers.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Nothing to see, I guess.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
Russia was invited. US backs terrorists. Story about Assad using gas were false.
LanceThruster
@Westyny:
Did you spank to it? You seem the type.
Mnemosyne
@LanceThruster:
Russia is bombing hospitals. But we already know you can excuse any behavior as long as Russia does it.
Nope. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Oh, well, as long as Russia was invited to bomb hospitals, that makes it all okay!
Interesting to see that you don’t give a damn about dead women and children overseas as long as it’s not the US killing them.
And, note, no one is saying gas was used. Russia used bombs. Explosive ones. On a maternity hospital. That’s a specialized hospital that was filled with mothers and babies. But if it was Russia that bombed mothers and babies, it must have been Right and Good, because only the US does evil things, amirite?
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: Invited by Bashir al-Assad, one of the most brutal dictators in the Middle East. Know him by the company he keeps.
LanceThruster
@Mnemosyne:
We bomb wedding parties. We gave Iraq the greenlight to attack Kuwait because of the slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields. The claims of Kuwaiti babies left on the gloor to die were lies. We have a history of using propaganda to direct opinion to fulfill our aims. We don’t care if it makes for a failed state. We backed an apartheid regime (Israel) dropping white phosphorus (a war crime) on an occupied people.
Spare me your outrage. Syrian refugees started moving back once Assad restored some stanility. I object to US machinations claiming to have the moral high ground when that is questionable.
LanceThruster
@Shalimar:
Yeah…those pesky things like international law never apply to us. That’s why Israel gets US aid even with undeclared nukes.
LanceThruster
US proxy war in Syria.
LanceThruster
Russia-gate hysteria.