Not only have Republicans been silent on any number of Donald Trump’s actions that would have caused them to erupt in impeachment fever had Barack Obama done them, they succeeded in suppressing actions that might have thwarted Russian meddling in last year’s election.
Historically, the Republicans have been the firmly anti-Communist and anti-Soviet party. One still occasionally sees anti-Communist rants from Republican commentators, but the fall of the Soviet Union diluted the value of such things.
It’s been 25 years now. People of electoral age grew up in the post Cold War world and may not realize the antagonism and fear that existed. Paul Ryan is 47, so he was 21 in 1991 and fantasizing about Ayn Rand. Mitch McConnell is 75 and doesn’t have that excuse.
Toward the end of last summer, the intelligence community was convinced that Russia was intervening in the election on the side of Donald Trump. They told President Barack Obama and other members of the administration. As the election approached, the situation became increasingly fraught. The best way to counter Russian meddling would be to expose it. However, if the Democratic President announced such a thing, he could be attacked as trying to influence the election.
The solution to that would be for the patriotic leaders of the opposition to join with the President and the intelligence community to warn the public of the foreign interference. Obama and other Democratic officials suggested that to the Republican leadership. McConnell and the Trump campaign doubted the intelligence. John Brennan, then director of the CIA, assured them that it was not a partisan matter.
Nonetheless, McConnell told the administration that he would consider any effort by the White House to challenge the Russians publicly an act of partisan politics and would respond in that vein (Washington Post). We do not know what Ryan’s reaction was.
So it was a no-win situation for Obama. Expose Russian meddling and start a major political fight just before the election that was likely to damage Hillary Clinton, or stay silent and allow the Russians to damage her? Given Obama’s preference for unity over division, it is not surprising that he chose silence.
The Republicans, via Mitch McConnell, chose to stick with a situation that they believed helped them rather than expose Russia’s meddling.
A-lthough the Republicans demonized the Russians throughout the Cold War, it is easy for some Republicans to be their friends. Dana Rohrabacher, representing a district in Southern California, has made many trips to Russia and recently advocated for Julian Assange.
In June 2016, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (also from California) was caught on tape saying “There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump.” House Speaker Paul Ryan stopped the conversation and swore everyone present to secrecy.
The same intelligence report that confirmed Russian hacking of Democratic servers said that Republicans were hacked too. But those emails and other information have not been released. They could be used as blackmail. Or perhaps they are uninteresting. We don’t know, and Republicans have not been willing to talk about this breach.
There is much to suggest that the purpose of Russian hacking was to elect Donald Trump president. Trump has praised Putin and has consistently refused to criticize him. He has dragged his feet in enforcing sanctions against Russia.
During the 2016 campaign,
Donald Trump and the political action committees for Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, Lindsey Graham, John Kasich and John McCain accepted $7.35 million in contributions from a Ukrainian-born oligarch who is the business partner of two of Russian president Vladimir Putin’s favorite oligarchs and a Russian government bank. (Dallas Morning News)
The oligarch is Len Blavatnik, who has connections to Oleg Deripaska, one of Paul Manafort’s connections, and the Bank of Cyprus, of which Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross was a governor.
The Russians were willing to help get Trump elected. That shared objective seems to have overcome Republican concerns about damage to our electoral system. Republicans continue to be willfully blind to Trump’s emoluments, attacks on the justice system, and other offenses that they would see as impeachable in a Democratic president.
The Mueller investigation is turning up a great many Russian connections in the administration. How far do those connections extend into the Republican Party?
Tom Q
As some others have noted: McConnell’s decision that not revealing Russian interference was to his party’s benefit at least raises the strong possibility that he knew that interference was aimed solely at Democrats. If Mueller can make the case that McConnell had been assured that was the situation, this goes way deeper than many want to believe.
Mnemosyne
It’s weirder than that — I still see right-wing commenters accuse others of being “communists,” but they insist that the guy who worked for the KGB is a capitalist now, not a communist. IOW, Putin has seen the error of his ways and been washed clean in the blood of the holy Free Market, and anyone who opposes him is just a … communist.
Mnemosyne
@Tom Q:
Oh, I’ve believed from the start that national Republicans knew exactly what was going on and kept quiet because it benefited them. Remember how everyone warned us when Citizens United was decided that foreign governments could pump unlimited funds into SuperPACs?
Corner Stone
Sigh.
WTF
I grew up hearing about “creeping socialiism,” not creeping fascism. That’s what this is. A coup, pulled off by American fascists with the help of Russian fascists. I define fascism simply: Antī-liberal.
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne: They’re right about that, as far as I can tell. Most likely, Putin was never a Communist ideologue–he was an illiberal Russian nationalist who wanted to be the world’s biggest gangster, and got his wish. And probably a lot of the Soviet leadership were in the same category.
WTF
It’s another antithesis of fascism.
Major Major Major Major
Yep.
Yep.
And here we are.
rikyrah
TRAITORS ALL!!!!!
Eric NNY
Can anyone name any Republican who has commented on McConnell’s refusal to bring the Russian meddling to light? They’re all guilty of party before principle.
WTF
@Matt McIrvin:
Soviets were totalitarian. More in common with fascism.Communist ideology was never more than illusion.
Karen Potter
I am a cynic; so when someone refuses to criticizes and always praises my first thought is brown noser or blackmail. So we have dolt going to far east where he is sure to offend many for lack of anything not him bragging that he is going to meet with Putin.
I have no idea what the average person in Japan thinks, but starting out trip by reminding them of US dropping bombs is not a good thing. PM Abe is highly skilled at managing, but I would love to know what he really thinks.
So back to being cynic; I wonder if dolt is trying to set up sanctuary which is why he is meeting Putin.
The Moar You Know
Best president of my lifetime (seriously) but there were a few decisions and a few responses to situations where I vehemently disagreed with said response or decision. This was one of the three biggies.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Eric NNY:
The supposed “Never Trumpers” just want to have their cake and eat it too
sublime33
I am so old, I remember when Republicans loved the NFL and hated the Russian government. How times have changed.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@The Moar You Know:
Do you really think him directly exposing it would have changed any minds?
Eric NNY
@ Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) : Yep. And it appears they’re getting away with it without having to answer the tough questions that should be fired their way.
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know: he shoulda played hardball, that was dumb.
Mayken
All the nope. I am a few years younger than Ryan. I deeply remember the antagonism and fear. He has NO excuse.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@sublime33:
That’s because Russia is now exactly the kind of place they’d like to live: corrupt, uber-capitalist, and authoritarian (so long as they’re in power). I hate them so much.
WTF
Crashman
While I’d like to know, I’m not sure speculating really matters much. Mueller will not save us.
SatanicPanic
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I don’t think changing minds is the way to go. hardening minds on the Democratic side is better.
Major Major Major Major
@SatanicPanic: And don’t even get me started on the public option!
@Crashman:
And what are you doing to help elect a congress that will?
Corner Stone
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I don’t think we can honsetly answer that. But I, for one, am extremely tired of people who continue to make excuses about this and frame it in a political lens. It’s not. It is a national security issue and should be looked at that way and addressed that way. Obama did not do that.
TenguPhule
There is no need to insult dogs.
rikyrah
@Tom Q:
UH HUH
UH HUH
Chris
Well, historically, the Republicans have been one of the two firmly anti-Communist and anti-Soviet mainstream parties of American politics. From Wilson sending troops to support the White Russian Army in the civil war, to Truman coming up with NATO and the Marshall Plan and the containment doctrine, to Carter dialing the Cold War back up when he started sending arms to the mujahidin in a process that was continued thanks in part to the tireless lobbying efforts of one Congressman Charles Nesbitt Wilson, D-Texas 2nd Congressional District, the Democrats have never actually disagreed with this aspect of the Republican platform. But Republicans have, indeed, been the party most prone to calling everyone around them and especially in domestic politics a bunch of lousy stinking commies for not agreeing with them all the time, and this, for whatever reason, has resulted in them being anointed the Anti-Communist/Soviet Party.
I’m being pedantic, of course – I know exactly what Cheryl meant and agree with it. It just still irritates me on some level that this is the narrative that’s set in stone.
[goes back to the rest of the post]
bystander
Obama may have failed us but the press did a great job. It is hard to balance discussing Clinton’s email server and corruption of our electoral process by an antagonistic foreign power. Email is so much more interesting. And it’s a good thing, too, or we wouldn’t have found out about all her underhanded dealings and pay-for-play through the Clinton Foundation.
Thanks to all who advised voting against NYS Con Con. I was so inclined until I got a NYS Bar memo recommending Yes. Might have known.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
I suppose he felt that arresting half of Congress for suspected Treason would get bad media attention.
And let’s be honest, the public would have reacted badly. Because most Americans are morons.
WTF
Which stole an election in favor of an adversary nation. That’s a coup.
MomSense
Didn’t the Obama administration have a press conference and release a statement about Russian interference on the same day the Access Hollywood tape dropped? It seems the media (and most of us, too if we’re honest) were more interested in that story.
satby
@Corner Stone: @Major Major Major Major: The election looked safely like Clinton would win. A part of Obama’s calculus probably assumed they could disclose and prosecute if needed with Clinton in the White House. NOBODY thought the traitor would win.
Archon
Obama didn’t truly believe that a country that elected him twice would turn around and elect a buffoon like Donald Trump President.
Obama had a failure of political imagination because his politics are rooted in an optimistic view of the American people.
Citizen Alan
In my most pessimistic moments, I think that future historians will describe 2016 thusly:
gvg
@Matt McIrvin: Putin is not a communist. He is a capitalist robber baron or even a feudalist. The problem is that he is a nationalist for a different country. All the fear those isolationists have for the foreign other is foolish against the powerless immigrants but very justified if they directed it against people like Putin. The capitalists system worshipers haven’t caught on that other capitalists aren’t their allies, they are dangerous rivals.
The other problem we have is that a significant portion of our population and Putin’s supporters don’t actually understand how the system they claim to support works and are doing things that make it less stable. Our extremists think capitalism is natural and just falls out of the sky when there are no regulations.
Capitalism is useful for making certain things happen like lots of goods. It should be our servant not our god or master. some things it is innately bad at, like an impartial justice system. We can’t use it for everything. We should be more realistic about it. I don’t understand why people have to take so many things to extreme points of silliness.
Major Major Major Major
@satby: Agreed, but that doesn’t make the statement incorrect.
zhena gogolia
The woman cyclist who flipped off DJT’s motorcade has been summarily fired from her job. (I saw it in WaPo.)
TenguPhule
This is your only real blind spot.
Republicans are not the Opposition. They’re the Enemy.
Negotiation is not in the cards. Cooperation is not in the cards.
Its down to them or us.
Jeffro
@Mnemosyne:
Exactly right. Party over country, always.
And to follow up on that CU point…when Obama was re-elected in 2012 despite the absolute scads of ‘dark money’ thrown at him & Uncle Joe by the Kochs and their network, rather than change their approach, they doubled/tripled down with even more money, quite a bit of it from foreign sources.
And their conditioned-to-be-nutso voters found them a champion who was a straight-up rebuke to Obama, a clear voice for white supremacy
And Russia said “hmm…I wonder if we can make something out of all this…”
Perfect storm doesn’t begin to describe it all.
Karen Potter
There are days when I feel like I am so old I was expected to read history, I had civics classes and was expected to know about government, I went to school at a time when test results were main focus but what you learned and what inspired out was.
By all that is, I hate getting old; even more I hate the world my grandchildren and great grandchildren live in. So am pissed off and want to do bodily harm, but am going to go knit a sweater.
Chris
For me, the three big things are
1) Trump going on national television to ask Putin to help him by hacking his political opponent’s emails.
2) Trump removing the pro-Ukraine language from the GOP platform.
3) Trump insisting on meeting with Russian officials in the oval office, after which it came out almost immediately that he’d spilled classified information to them.
To me, the question of whether Putin really did have electoral ties to the Russians is almost irrelevant. Whether or not he was actually recruited with them or coordinated with them, he’s perfectly happy to lend his name to theirs to win over his supporters and take actions that harm the U.S. and its allies while benefiting Russia. Whether they actively recruited him or he’s just doing this out of his own sympathy, he is in effect Their Man In Washington.
Karmus
@Mnemosyne:
And how.
Fair Economist
The Trump-Putin connections continue to turn out to be deeper and stronger than previously thought. Turns out Papadopoulos was in Athens the *same day* as Putin himself, meeting with the *same people* (leaders in the pro-Russian party in Greece.)
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/927588910691241989
Waaaayy too much for coincidence. The obvious suspicion is this was a way to set up a meeting, without having to set up a meeting.
Citizen Alan
@Archon:
The dirty little secret about America I have been forced to accept is this: Obama only won twice because McCain and Romney had a semblance of decency. It seems clear to me that if either of them had been willing to abandon their scruples and do what Trump didn’t hesitate to do — i.e. give up any pretense of respect for minorities and directly appeal to racist Americans — either of them could have probably beaten Obama.
Jeffro
@Archon: Well, then I’m guilty of the same things Obama thought…and so was HIllz…and so were most of us Dems.
Cheryl Rofer
@MomSense: Thanks for reminding me of that. I wanted to have all these references in one place, but missed that one.
And then
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: The dead giveaway was how flustered he got during the debate. “No puppet, no puppet, you’re the puppet!”
Roger Moore
I think this is exactly what they don’t want anyone to know. That doesn’t necessarily mean the rot extends everywhere in the party, though. I think Josh Marshall’s take on this is more or less right: most of the rank and file are afraid of exposing the rot not because they know where it leads but because they don’t know.
If they knew exactly how bad it was, they could make a rational decision about whether it was worth exposing it to clean up the party or if they had to go all in because the truth would destroy them. They were able to do that with Watergate because they could see that the problem was localized to Nixon’s immediate circle, so they could abandon him and avoid massive collateral damage. But with the Russia business, they really don’t know where the investigation will lead. Even Republicans who have never knowingly accepted Russian help don’t know if they’ll look compromised because they unknowingly received under-the-table help. That makes them paralyzed with indecision. They’re afraid of investigating because they don’t know what it will turn up, and their afraid of blocking the investigation because it will make it look like they have something to hide.
One of the things the Democrats should consider doing to facilitate the investigation is to make it clear that we only intend to target people who directly conspired with the Russians. There’s no way we could, or should, go after everyone who the Russians decided to help on their own hook. That’s especially true if the Russians delivered money or other help to central committees that help the whole party; we can’t throw every Republican who accepted help from the RNC/RCCC/RSCC in jail because they unknowingly benefited from somebody else’s conspiracy.
Corner Stone
@satby: Let’s say that was a part of Obama’s calculus. Knowing what he knew, and having watched the R’s trash him for 8 solid years he HAD to know they would be merciless against President Clinton. So, given that he considered HRC should win, what was she going to do about it after election? Nothing, that’s what.
Obama owed the nation his part of the oath to defend this country from all enemies – not look to his successor, or his legacy or political slings and arrows.
satby
@Chris: you mean Trump, not Putin.
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
And then there’s the current line of attack, that Putin is a commie bastard and did interfere with the U.S. electoral process, but it was Hillary he was helping, not Trump!
rikyrah
@TenguPhule:
No lie told.
Jeffro
@Citizen Alan: Doubtful about McCain…that would have been “Bush’s/the GOP’s 3rd term” and the Great Recession happened on his/their watch and everyone was sick of the Iraq War. Obama did cream him, too.
Obama v Romney: not sure. Mitt really was quite the caricature of GOP 1%-ness., and Obama was still Obama. But it could have been closer, yes.
Chris
@Matt McIrvin:
From what I understand, Russia has plenty of people who don’t miss the Soviet Union at all ideologically, but who miss the rush of being a superpower and feeling powerful.
ChrisGrrr
Great post, Cheryl.
Thanks.
Chris
@Archon:
I don’t think it’s that. Like everyone else, Obama simply assumed Hillary would win, and he assumed that because every poll was telling him so consistently for months and months before the election. Obviously that was wrong, and you can argue that it didn’t change his obligation to speak out, although you can also argue that he thought coming out that way would only backfire on Hillary/the Democrats and therefore only help the Russian stooge. But it’s not as simple as starry-eyed naivete and looking at America through rose-tinted glasses.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
I agree with this.
Jonny Scrum-half
I would love to think that Mueller’s investigation should at least confirm and McConnell’s refusal to act, as well as the other ways that Republicans have chosen party over country. But I have no confidence that Mueller will do anything that would shatter the Republican Party as an institution – instead, at best we’ll be left with him exposing the actions of Trump and his minions, but not the way the Establishment enabled those actions.
Matt McIrvin
@gvg:
They fall for it because they’re racists. Putin is a nationalist for a white country, or so they see it. When it was nominally Communist, scoring points by complaining about American lynchings, it was the threatening other, but not any more.
gvg
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t think this was about Obama loving unity. I think this is about the trend for awhile for Democrats perfectly legitimate points being turned against them and the media and the people just tuning them out and saying they were being partisan. Lets mention Bill Clintons humanitarian intervention in czechoslovakia and against Bin Laden before 911. Obama had already found out after he was elected, the media wouldn’t always bother to broadcast his actual speeches, instead they did brief snippets that tended to distort what he actually meant. for some reason it was better before his election. Hillary made lots of speeches and so did other democrats in 2016 about policy but they couldn’t get widespread media coverage and voters actually complained about the lack of real policies. So I don’t see that Obama actually had a way to fight this.
Personally I think it’s going to turn out that there was a lot of news manipulation by American rich men as well as the Russian’s. Citizen’s United at least has to mandate funding source exposure with penalties and teeth? I think media entities should have to do financial disclosures too. I am becoming very suspicious of some of them.
Aleta
‘So it was a no-win situation for Obama. Expose Russian meddling and start a major political fight just before the election that was likely to damage Hillary Clinton, or stay silent and allow the Russians to damage her? Given Obama’s preference for unity over division, it is not surprising that he chose silence.’
And Repub leaders knew that, and bet the country on it because they wanted to win. Destroying something because you can’t control it seems a motive common to domestic violence, mass shootings (mad at a gf or stepmother), extremism in much of politics and religion, race hatred, misogyny … and other human behaviors.
tobie
Republicans have been busy at work dividing this country since their crushing defeat in 2008. Someday, some historian will uncover the concerted political and media strategy adopted by the party apparatus from McConnell to Priebus to the Mercers to the Kochs to Rupert Murdoch and the whole gaggle of rightwing pundits (Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh) etc. to do everything in their power to reclaim a permanent majority. In 2010 they got redistricting rights; they got Citizen’s United; and following the gutting of the VRA they got voter suppression on steroids. They hadn’t quite figured out how to grab everything in 2012 but by 2016 they were a well-oiled machine and Russian assistance took the hate these players sowed and helped make it mainstream.
At this point my only question is how this country will ever be repaired.
TenguPhule
@Citizen Alan:
But they did. McCain picked Sarah Fucking Palin and only stopped short of calling President Obama a Muslim.
Romney had PACs going full bore with the shit.
Both of them managed to fuck up themselves and got savaged by the media.
Trump fucked up multiple times and got free passes every single time.
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: Trump’s election was a two-sigma event. Obama’s calculation made a lot of sense. Don’t know what I would have done.
Matt McIrvin
@Chris: Yes–plenty of nostalgia for Soviet times there, but it’s not about Communist rule at all, it’s about being a hyperpower on top of half the world. Putin plays that to the hilt.
satby
@Corner Stone: and if he went solo, the story would have been buried by the Republicans making it all about Obama. After 8 years of watching them confuse their own voters with lies, not to mention obscuring every issue they could, I think Obama did about the best he could have. He set the investigation in motion, he made sure the resources were working on it under the radar, and his administration made sure that all relevant documents were preserved out of the hands of the traitors. We have hindsight to see where things fell apart, but in that moment, with a threat of undercutting the news and muddying the waters against a real investigation, Obama did what he could.
mr_gravity
@Major Major Major Major: Whenever Trump denies 3 times that is always a tell. Sometimes he just repeats something 3 times as if that will make it so.
TenguPhule
@tobie:
I fear only at the point of a sword on my darkest days.
Republicans just don’t care about laws or rules or codes of conduct. Almost half of our country can’t be trusted to do the right thing unless they’re treated like dangerous prisoners.
Major Major Major Major
@gvg:
I don’t disagree with this. Intervening might very well have been counterproductive. But I do think Obama believed the country was better than this. You can sense his outrage fatigue at that last press conference where he harangued the media and the voters. His whole shtick is about the country being able to be better than it is, I think he really believes it.
Chris
@gvg:
Ironically, one of the traditional right wing critiques of capitalism is that people whose first loyalty is to money will inevitably betray their country if they ever find their national loyalties in conflict with their greed, and that international capital flows will inevitably leave the nation vulnerable to foreign rivals who, instead of invading it, will simply buy up as much of it as they can.
(This is the kind of right wing critique that comes from somewhat more old-school conservatives, the kind who look at merchants with the same kind of contempt they have for teachers and bureaucrats and politicians and other unmanly people doing unmanly work who will never know what it’s like to be a red-blooded Real Man. And we haven’t even gotten into how easily that kind of “anti-capitalism” easily slides into antisemitism or similar prejudices. But it doesn’t mean there was exactly nothing to it, either).
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: I thought for sure he’d be cooked as a goose after that outburst. It had all the earmarks of a crime drama confession.
Sadly, I underestimated just how stupid my fellow Americans could get.
Chris
@satby:
That is exactly what I mean, yes. Obviously, if Putin DIDN’T have ties to “the Russians,” that would raise… a very interesting series of questions. Thanks for catching that.
trollhattan
@mr_gravity: Since every day under Trump seems like the last supper, there’s some coherence in his denying things thrice.
TenguPhule
@satby:
Well, aside from Black Ops, which I suppose he was too humane to consider.
Chris
@Matt McIrvin:
Yep.
Philbert
GOP thoughts, perhaps: Russia knows Communism more than anyone, so Uncle Vlad and Russia are OK to save us from Communism. Um, also oil.
Matt McIrvin
@TenguPhule: I’ve been marinating in these feelings myself.
The thing is–ultimately–they lead nowhere but death, mass death. There’s nothing for it but to take up arms and fight your neighbors, your family, maybe your own kids or your parents, until they are all dead or you are. The whole country disintegrates in a torrent of blood.
Do we want that? Is there any other way? I don’t know. But the more you prepare yourself for that blood apocalypse, the more you close off any other possible alternatives, to the point where you probably can’t see them if they appear. And it’s an approach for which the party devoted to fear and paranoia and violence will probably always be able to beat us.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Chris:
And even they were never as powerful as the American public thought they were. The US was pretty much several steps ahead of the SU technologically and economically, despite the Kabuki theatre of the Space Race.
Mike in DC
Imagine a RICO prosecution encompassing the national Republican party, Fox News, Breitbart and several other key players.
trollhattan
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Not to forget the gaps–the missile gap, the bomber gap, the warship gap…the American military industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about spun up a zillion reasons why we needed MORE, BETTER, NOW weapons against an imaginary superior force.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Chris:
I don’t think that kind of right wing has existed here since sometime in the 19th century.
Anyway, the Russians won’t have to worry about being a superpower again. Times can change, but I think that ship inexorably sailed sometime in the late 60s/early 70s for them. The future seems to belong to the PRC, which isn’t much better. Climate change will destroy everyone in the coming decades/centuries if we don’t act to reduce co2.
I’ve said here at least once that we as a civilization missed out on a great opportunity to create a virtual utopia on Earth by building on our advancements in the 20th centuries and the early 21st. I realise not everyone shared equally, but the Cold War may be the closest to utopia were ever going to get, ironically enough.
Corner Stone
@satby: I disagree. people keep forgetting a few things about this issue. It was not as portrayed a somehow last minute political decision. Obama knew with some degree of confidence back in the summer of 2015. That’s on record. The public did not know this but the Obama WH did:
Russia launched social media support for Trump almost immediately after he announced his campaign
Aleta
Wow, now it’s Ivan-ka who’s talking with a plane that says United States parked behind her. (Saying there are two reason for the tax cuts plan, the middle class and relief to “our businesses.”) Hardened liar, sheltered criminal.
TenguPhule
@Matt McIrvin: That’s why I think Mueller is our last chance. If the GOP torpedo his efforts and nobody gets held accountable for the Trump Cartel in the legal system, I think the wheels will come off the bus.
If the new legal standard becomes crime pays if you’re Republican, if there is no legal remedy to address the dismantling of government’s basic duties and responsibilities, then we’re going to quickly hit a critical mass of people who have no respect for the law. And once that happens, we’re done as a 1st world nation.
Matt McIrvin
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: The single most hopeful thing about the current moment, to me, is that renewable energy turns out to be feasible. To a degree that I wouldn’t have thought possible even 10 or 15 years ago–I was in despair about it then. Trump is not going to be able to stop that train. At this point, global warming is going to do us a lot of damage no matter what, but a world economy that doesn’t depend on burning fossil fuel for everything actually seems to be doable.
John Revolta
Roger Moore:
Yeah I can just hear the slimy fuckers now………………….
“I did nothing, O my brothers! It was my stinking treacherous droogs! They like forced me to do it! Get them before they get away!……”
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: What should he have done? I agree with you that whatever he did do was not enough but I am not exactly sure what President Obama should and could have done.
TenguPhule
@Matt McIrvin:
Stop raising flags.
piratedan
nice to see you guys catching up with where I was four months ago… (although I do understand the caution in the journey getting here)
its always been about the money… Citizens United under Bush paved the way for this, Putin didn’t want to deal with an adversarial Clinton in office, so he got his own patsy to run and the GOP played along… How many GOP candidates attacked DJT on character? How many attacked him during the campaign about his money sources, his foreign policy or his taxes? Sure we got a few never Trumpers out there, but of the GOP establishment, from Preibus to McConnell and Ryan, everyone fell in line. Who got rewarded with cabinet posts? Who got their Supreme Court justice? What party shared their intel with a foreign nation to target races in the last election? How did those ads get funded and on whose side did those shoes drop?
The entire party hierarchy is on this, McCarthy, Cronym, et al… anyone who helps establish party direction and is a public mouthpiece has been paid, coerced or blackmailed. This rot just doesn’t end there either. I STILL believe that the NYT and CNN and other key media outlets have been penetrated. Look at the voices that are allowed to debate. Look at the non-stories that get pimped into issues. Look at what gets only a passing glance. Who gets to talk on national TV, is it people who want to rein in out of control gun users? No, it’s always some concerned fuck who is adamant that the government is coming to take THEIR guns, and fuck all of those dead people. Then they’ll tun around and tell you how fucking sacred the life of the unborn is, but dammit, don’t raise their taxes to educate the poor kid once its born. Look at the language framing the headlines or the debate…. racist angles, equivication on GOP misdeeds, bold statements on Dem issues (Brazille).
I am pissed as hell, but expressing that opinion can get your ass fired and cause you to possibly lose everything you’ve ever worked for, so you sit here quietly seething on some blog and toss as much money and free time that you have to Democratic candidates, who despite it all have to be better than their alternative, the psychopathic theocratic corrupt party.
ruemara
How far? Cheryl. All the way down. They used the information in House and Senate races. They’re not just blind for money, they’re complicit in many, many, many races. The entire goddamned party is either ok with sedition to win or actively seditious. That’s why they have to lose, lose hugely, and multitudes have to go to jail. This has been a coup by a colluding party with a hostile oligarch interfering in literally every western democratic election and a few petro-nation governments to create an unsafe, global hegemony of money, white supremacy and patriarchy. You’re either going to work hard and crush it at the ballot box or you’re going to be in a very unstable world with global shooting wars in about 2 years. People who’ve had autonomy do not take kindly to fascist boots in their face.
rp
@satby: Yes. Obama’s decision had nothing to do with unity IMO. It was a very logical decision tree. Obama had two options: Ignore McConnell and go on the attack, or remain relatively quiet and hope Clinton won. Here are the relevant facts:
– The polls showed Clinton had a 90+% chance of winning.
– The admin. had already blamed Russia for the DNC hack, and Clinton raised the issue of Russian interference in a debate, and no one cared.
– The GOP would have screamed bloody murder about the President using his office to improperly influence the election, and the media almost certainly would have agreed.
Given that, Obama going on the attack was just as likely to harm Clinton as help her, and so it made perfect sense to remain quiet and hope she won.
schrodingers_cat
@piratedan:
Especially NYT. They knew what T was, he has been a high profile New Yorker since the 80s and they pimped him at every opportunity, they gave life to the emailz story.
Brachiator
The GOP wanted to impeach Obama just for getting up in the morning and going to the Oval office. But you are very correct in pointing out how little the Republicans cared about Russian interference with the election.
The GOP will always have Cuba.
Major Major Major Major
@piratedan:
I seem to remember seeing people here talking about this, like, a year ago, or whenever it is the story broke that Obama had the big meeting with everybody and Mitch said he wouldn’t get behind a unified front. IOW, don’t be a dick.
@trollhattan: Not to mention the doomsday and mineshaft gaps!
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: Broke the information as a massive speech. Which would’ve been called a craven attempt to affect the election. I’m not sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing. I just know the information was already out there about Trump, both his personal unfitness & his being a Russian puppet. I don’t know why 94% of black women didn’t give two flying fucks about propaganda and went with the qualified candidate. Maybe the problem isn’t that people needed more reasons to vote against Trump. Maybe the problem is people needed to explore why they want to believe bullshit and couldn’t see obvious lies and distortions as lies. Don’t blame Cassandra because your friends and relatives pissed away the warnings.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
I knew people from the USSR when it was USSR. The grift and corruption was just as rampant then as now, it’s just that it leads openly to the top now and one doesn’t need to be a communist party member to be in on the take. Being connected helps, and I’d bet keeps one alive longer, but doesn’t seem to be absolutely required.
Chris
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
No, I don’t think so either. The kind of conservatism I’m referring to is more European, the kind that sprang from aristocratic and military classes and, later on, fascists.
That and the PRC and Russia are still buddies for the foreseeable future – at the very least, they see a common interest in pushing back the main power in the unipolar world. I keep saying that I have some vague hope that an actual democratic power like India or the EU manages to be the ones who replace us, but right now neither of them seems interested and both are witnessing their own challenges to the democratic system. Whereas China (and Russia) are actively trying to get the prize.
Oh, yeah. And heck, just fighting global warming should, in theory, be the answer to all kinds of problems – think of all the money that can be made with government actively getting behind the promotion of newer cleaner technologies, and all the employment it’ll bring for the moment. But… nope. And least it’ll keep dystopian fiction writers employed.
Aimai
@Corner Stone: ridiculous.
MJS
@Corner Stone: I expect had Clinton won as she was expected to do, Obama would have been out front the very next day detailing what he knew, and what the Republicans knew. That plan was kaput when she lost, because it would have been viewed as nothing but sour grapes.
Corner Stone
@Aimai: Fuck that “ridiculous” nonsense.
TenguPhule
@Chris:
Real life is going to put them out of work.
Corner Stone
@MJS: Obama would have done about what he did do, move on into the backstage and decompress for a bit, giving HRC some time to set up shop. Hillary would have done the same thing Obama did in 2008 and kept everything quiet and went about running a govt. Because if she had said anything it would have collapsed her presidency and made it all about how she was trying to turn us into a Banana Republic by going after her political opponents. The best thing she could have done was to find more logical reasons to sanction specific Russian Oligarchs and then worked to get those passed and enforced.
Trump would have never shut up. He would have set up a media group and attended a rally a week fomenting hatred and conspiracy theories.
Archon
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Climate change that involves global warming would actually be a short to medium term boon to Russia. Imagine Siberia having the climate of fertile central California.
Chris
@ruemara:
My general rule of thumb for U.S. politics is “follow the black vote,” which upon reflection could probably be narrowed further to “follow the black women vote.” If you’re anything lower than a politically connected conservative millionaire, it’s a virtual certainty that whoever the black people are voting for will be better for you than whoever they’re voting against.
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: My town went for HRC almost 70%, so not everyone drank the KoolAid, its pretty rural not extremely wealthy by any means, there are a fair number of working farms here. So people that Rs supposedly worship live here. The narrative that T appeals to white working class whites is not as universal as the media likes to portray.
ETA: The only T voter I personally know is a fairly well off Jewish person nearing retirement.
JGabriel
Cheryl Rofer @ Top:
I was 26 in 1991, and I remember the fear that existed. As a rule of thumb, I’d say anyone old enough to remember Nicholas Meyers’s The Day After is old enough to remember the Cold War, and it’s accompanying fear, antagonism, and tension.
That would include Paul Ryan, so he doesn’t have that excuse either.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: I think we met our doomsday quota the moment Donald Trump was given access to the Nuclear Football and he wanted to know why it didn’t look like a real football.
Epicurus
“The solution to that would be for the patriotic leaders of the opposition to join with the President and the intelligence community to warn the public of the foreign interference.”
Assumes facts not in evidence. “Patriotic leaders” of the Republican Party are unicorns, I’m afraid. It’s always ‘party before country’ with them.
MomSense
@satby:
Look at how the media are covering the VA race. They spent the entire weekend talking about Donna Brazile, Clinton, and Bernie. Meanwhile Gillespie is running a horrifically racist campaign. There are a few exceptions but the majority of what passes for journalism is pathetic.
Gelfling 545
@The Moar You Know: Can you imagine the uproar of a Democratic president announced that Russia was interfering in support of the Republican candidate? The assumption would have been that President Obama was doing the interfering and he’d have neen crucified. Could well have swung the popular vote to Trump given how the media savaged Hilary and Obama both just on general principles. People, with a nudge and a wink from the media have always been reafy to jump to the worst of conclusions about them both. Mere proof would never convince them. Damned either way is my opinion.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone: You forget that Republicans were talking of impeaching her the moment she took the oath and swore up and down they’d never let her nominate a SC justice. We were already looking at a Constitutional crisis from Congress.
Elie
@Archon:
I can’t know and neither can you whether he had a “failure of imagination” or that he did not have or believe in leading a counterinsurgency to what the American people who supported this Congress, wanted to do. You sometimes cannot save people from themselves. If he had screamed from the rafters that the entire Republican leadership was corrupt, he would have only been labeled as hysterical and that his information was without merit. How would he have proved that at that point? After all, Hillary STILL could have won — she missed by about 100K votes in 3 states…
Sure, its damned frustrating to think that this weird relationship with the Russians was just the tip of the iceberg, but I do not know how this shift could have been prevented. My guess is that the Republican leadership has been playing footsie with the Russians for a while, but on the down low. Now it is close to being an open secret. It will however, be us to US — not some savior — to right this if it can be righted. ( I hope that all y’all mothas are voting or plan to vote tomorrow in every election open to you and that you work hard to shift this thing starting down where you live. NO EXCUSES)
rikyrah
@ruemara:
Kay brings up this point all the time.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
Well, no. At that point, they just stop writing futuristic fiction and start writing reality TV (or rather, their futuristic fiction becomes a reality show without them even having to do anything about it).
“Sir, sir! Your first book, After The End Of The World, was critically acclaimed, but the sequel, Real Housewives Of Cave Ghrok, has been criticized for being nothing but a rehash of the original. How do you respond to this?”
Gravenstone
@piratedan:
Going to dispute this, slightly. I don’t think Trump was Putin’s patsy, per se. Rather, I expect we’ll find the Russians tentatively reached out to all the Republican campaigns. But it was the Trump people who proved most amenable to those overtures, in large part because Trump was already corrupt from a lifetime of con artistry (and had long been known to have a somewhat favorable view of Russia stemming from the mid-80s). Once that hook was well set, then he could truly be viewed as Putin’s puppet, but not necessarily from the inception of his campaign.
Roger Moore
@piratedan:
The thing is, though, that they’ve been doing exactly the same kind of thing for a very long time. Remember, the FTNYT that ignored all of Trump’s flaws and played up the email story is the same FTNYT that has been going after the Clintons since the 1992 election, that helped drum up support for the Iraq war, and that killed a story on Bush’s warrantless wiretapping shortly before the 2004 election. They’ve been in the bag for the Republicans since forever, as has most of the rest of the national media. That they continued the same behavior during the 2016 election doesn’t mean they’ve been penetrated by the Russians, just that they’re owned lock, stock, and barrel by Republicans.
MJS
@Corner Stone: If Obama gets the ball rolling before he leaves office, then Clinton can say she’s not going to interfere in an ongoing investigation. And you’re right, Trump wouldn’t have been able to shut up, and would have probably incriminated himself. But I guess we’ll never know.
SatanicPanic
@Gelfling 545: Hillary Clinton explicitly accused him of being Putin’s Puppet and it didn’t stop her from winning the popular vote.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
Who, as has been pointed out on this very blog, have been penetrated by Russia at every level.
JGabriel
@tobie:
I wonder if John Roberts realizes, or will ever realize, or will ever care, that his Supreme Court, and his Supreme Court decisions, were instrumental in accelerating the corruption of the GOP and the election of Donald Trump.
Chris
@Roger Moore:
Yarp.
The problem is The Script that’s been built up over the last half century or so. All the Russians needed to do was understand it and then try to work with it.
TenguPhule
@Gravenstone: Trump owes Russians so much money that it was an offer he couldn’t refuse.
He doesn’t dare quit either, because Putin knows for sure he won’t be able to keep his big fat mouth shut.
Corner Stone
Katy Tur really, really lurvs her some Donna Brazile Nut story.
TenguPhule
@JGabriel:
Feature, not a bug. Roberts only concern is that he be reported glowingly in the history books. No matter who’s writing them.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
No one has mentioned that the Steele dossier, which is turning out to be the roadmap to this whole coup, which mentioned that Russian agents/ facilitators were also working within the Dem infrastructure? Every time I hear the name “Tad Devine”, I think of the dog that didn’t bark. It’s amazing to me that his connection to Manafort is never mentioned. Bernie’s team hacked Hillary’s donor list. Tad talked Bernie into running as a Dem. Neither one of them thought he’d really succeed at winning, but what they’ve surely accomplished is torpedoing the Dem party by driving wedges through Obama’s winning coalition -cleaving white from black, men from women, north from south, leaving a tea party of mostly young educated whites/males following a Pied Piper who became a millionaire promoting himself as a socialist, and the purity candidate who’s under investigation by the FBI for bank fraud. Devine looked at Bernie as the analog to Trump (both have the same egotistical need for attention and devotion), and the perfect storm happened. Hillary still won the popular vote.
MisterForkbeard
I think at this point it’s obvious that the Republicans knew they were receiving help from Russia but didn’t actually care. The amount that accepted it in an explicitly quid-pro-quo manner is probably much smaller, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out it was only the Trump Campaign + a few outliers like Rohrabacher.
Basically McConnel, Ryan etc. all new where the e-mails came from (as well as some PAC funding, facebook/twitter bots, etc.) but never explicitly made any kind of deal with Russia. They just accepted that Russia was going to help them and hurt Democrats… and then ran with it, using whatever they could to win. Likewise, they stymied any attempt to stop Russian influence because it would hurt them politically, and they’re trying to stop those attempts now (as well as attempts to look into Trump’s collusion) for the same reason.
But they’re not technically guilty of ‘collusion’ themselves. Technically.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
No one has mentioned that the Steele dossier, which is turning out to be the roadmap to this whole coup, said Russian agents/ facilitators were also working within the Dem infrastructure? Every time I hear the name “Tad Devine”, I think of the dog that didn’t bark. It’s amazing to me that his connection to Manafort is never mentioned. Bernie’s team hacked Hillary’s donor list. Tad talked Bernie into running as a Dem. Neither one of them thought he’d really succeed at winning, but what they’ve surely accomplished is torpedoing the Dem party by driving wedges through Obama’s winning coalition -cleaving white from black, men from women, north from south, leaving a tea party of mostly young educated northern/coastal/whites/males following a Pied Piper who became a millionaire promoting himself as a s0ciali$t, and the purity candidate who’s under investigation by the FBI for bank fraud. Devine looked at Bernie as the analog to Trump (both have the same egotistical need for attention and devotion), and the perfect storm happened. Hillary still won the popular vote, amazingly.
TenguPhule
Forget fundraising for Democrats running.
Let’s fundraise for Balloonjuice to GET RID OF ALL THESE FUCKING AWFUL ADS CONSTANTLY POPPING UP ON THE SCREEN!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHH!!!!
Gravenstone
@JGabriel: As long as his check clears, he won’t give one damn.
TenguPhule
@MisterForkbeard:
But definitely guilty of treason.
Which has a much harsher penalty.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: That’s what I keep saying, but Alain keeps ignoring me.
JGabriel
@TenguPhule:
Yes, that’s a given. I’m wondering if Roberts can or will ever be able to see that Trump’s administration will not be reported glowingly in the history books, nor will will anyone who enabled it.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: Can’t Doug or John do something? Who runs this blog these days anyway?
Mike in DC
@MisterForkbeard:
There’s this thing called “accessory after the fact”….
rikyrah
Scope of Mueller’s probe worries Team Trump and its allies
11/06/17 10:40 AM
By Steve Benen
In police dramas on television, there are certain plot developments that give away the game. For example, when detectives show up at a suspect’s home, and the suspect seems concerned about the police looking beneath his shed, it’s a safe bet there’s some incriminating evidence under that shed.
With this in mind, I’m fascinated by Trump World talking publicly about the areas it wants Special Counsel Robert Mueller to avoid.
………………………………
What’s more, the warnings don’t appear to be working. The Washington Post noted yesterday that Mueller’s interest in Russian contacts “may extend to Trump’s business, as well, with the special counsel’s office recently asking for records related to a failed 2015 proposal for a Moscow Trump Tower, according to a person familiar with the request.”
If the president’s rhetoric from July reflected his genuine intentions, this presumably means Trump will be more inclined to take steps to fire Mueller and derail the investigation.
JGabriel
@TenguPhule:
Trump has had no problem ignoring his debts before. So what Trump must really fear is kompromat that he knows Putin has on him, or he fears assassination by Putin’s intelligence agencies.
MisterForkbeard
@Gelfling 545: The treatment Hillary is STILL getting over the Uranium One story is proof about this. We know it’s a bullshit story. The media knows it’s a bullshit story. Republican officials know it’s a bullshit story. It’s palpably obvious to anyone with a brain that Republicans are pushing this to hate Hillary, keep their base distracted and to muddy the waters around Trump’s own Russia problems.
And yet, the best we see in the media are articles with a screaming headline about “The ‘Other Russian Scandal”, with a subheader about how “this is not supported by the facts”. And that’s the best case – in most cases, we still get arguments and discussions from media panels where everyone is treated like they’re arguing in good faith and who knows what really happened?
Elie
@Matt McIrvin:
We have no patience for the development of a solution/s that use our system and are supported by the people. We MUST hold to faith in justice and freedom in the full light of democracy. Bloody solutions do not help you bring anything together — only tear it apart. They (the opponents of democracy) are not winning and we would be mistaken to give into their strategy of splitting and violence). They are consuming themselves if you take time to look. Those of us who believe in freedom, rule of law and justice much persist. Its been 9 months in this crisis — way too short of a time to give up and give in to the mindset and purpose of our enemies. Stop being afraid of justice — own it and march forward with confidence… We are at the beginning and there is plenty of work to do instead of whining about killing everybody and swimming in blood, for Pete’s sake!
Chris
@MisterForkbeard:
The thing that really tells the tale, as usual, is the voters. Trump did something that would’ve been unthinkable for any previous candidate and openly asked for Russian to do his electoral dirty work for him on national television, and as far as Republican voters went, that didn’t make Trump’s numbers go down, it just made Putin’s numbers shoot up.
They’re at the point where they consider Democrats enough of a blood enemy that they simply do not care who they have to work with to bring it down, even if it’s a dictator that they were attacking Obama only four years earlier for not being tough enough on. The current party has gone full-on “better Hitler than Blum” bugfuck insane.
sheila in nc
@Chris: I have a friend who makes a point that his specific contribution to GOTV is that he wants to volunteer to drive voters to the polls — but ONLY black women voters. I’m not sure he is kidding.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@MisterForkbeard:
The left uses the same Hillary hate for its fuel as the right does. Horseshoe Theory at work, plus Russian Active Measures targeting white male supremacy by torquing its fragility.
ruemara
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: It’s more than Tad Devine. Look at the influencers over at the Intercept. The Young Turks have done yeoman’s work being muddyers of truth. Katherine fucking Van de Huevel, her husband and some of the Nation’s writers. The amount of leftier than thou trolls elevated to relevance. Winnie fucking Wong? Who’s done- what, exactly? We got our own house to clean and we can’t because people are still all heart eyes and bae on folks who’ve been full stop wrong. But, yeah Bernie woulda won and identity politics and it’s economic.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: nobody runs it. Alain keeps the lights on. Cole is gatekeeper for the ads’ existence, apparently we had to trade auto play video for taboola to cover the funds.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
We have more autoplay ads then before taboola was added. And they’re bigger and more intrusive now.
Fair Economist
@Roger Moore:
Different infiltrators. The media has been infiltrated by the right wing. The right wing has decided to cover up Russian involvement as much as possible because they think handing the country over to Russian patsies will get them their tax cuts. The dynamics are similar to Ryan and McConnell during the campaign.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@ruemara:
Apparently you can throw Donna Brazile and Liz Warren on that pile. Disappointed in Liz. She’s dead to me. As far as those who’ve come out to criticize HRC for the campaign w/out first mentioning Russian interference and voter suppresssion, they’re dead to me too – looking at you Joe Biden.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: my suggestions fall on deaf ears, Cole is very unwilling to listen on this point, I use an adblocker and do enough here to not care.
dogwood
There was plenty of talk about Russian involvement in the election. Hacking, bots, troll farms. POTUS coming out before the election would have just further politicized a national security situation. It wouldn’t have changed any votes, and it certainly wouldn’t have stopped the prpogana machine. The media was never interested in the RussIan interference story until after the election, but they would have loved to go after Obama for making assertions without being able to provide proof. The Russian investigation didn’t start with Mueller, but it could have been compromised long ago, if Obama had decided to step in.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
That depends on how you define winning.
They suck at building things. But they excel at tearing things apart. Like laws, rules and social norms.
They may not win, but they can make sure we don’t either.
JR
“Senator Paul, did you fuck that guy’s wife?”
Chris
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Brazile doing this shit right before some elections (thank God, not an actual midterm or general) actually has made me wonder “are you actually a ratfucker? By intent as well as by action, I mean?”
BruceJ
What I don’t understand is why the GOP appears to blithely believe that Putin did this because he wanted Trump as president, because he liked Trump.
No he wanted Trump as president because this would significantly weaken America. Why do they possibly think it won’t be “their turn in the barrel” next time?
rikyrah
REPUBLICAN HOUSE MEMBERS THINK A $450K SALARY IS MIDDLE CLASS
BY NICOLE GOODKIND ON 11/3/17 AT 1:08 PM
That’s rich! Republicans suddenly believe that one percenters are barely struggling to be in the middle class, party officials revealed.
On Thursday, House Republicans issued a fact sheet about their new tax cut plan that referred to Americans earning $450,000 a year as “low- and middle-income” — even though that income level would put those taxpayers in the top 0.5 percent of all individual Americans.
The median household income in the United States is $59,039, after all.
The GOP made the announcement as part of the rollout of the tax cut plan, saying they would cut tax rates from 39.6 percent to 35 percent for those $450,000-earning middle class members — but the announcement was quickly overshadowed by the Republicans’ bizarre understanding of wealth.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
Right into the sights of a militarized police force that are conditioned to treat all non-whites as the enemy.
People are starting to get scared of the Justice Dept, because there’s not a lot of justice to be found there these days.
rikyrah
@Chris:
Uh huh
Uh huh
She couldn’t have waited 1-2 weeks?
Uh huh
Uh huh
Chris
@rikyrah:
Hey, they thought Joe the Plumber’s alleged $250,000.00 a year was a working class salary, so why not.
Fair Economist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
It’s not mentioned, but Mueller knows about it and I’m sure his team is looking. Remember they have a lot of records from Manafort, which may well have direct or indirect connections to Devine, including records Manafort deliberately withheld from subpoena. The question is how well did Devine cover his tracks.
TenguPhule
@BruceJ:
Because they’ve always screwed the Democrats and can’t imagine any other scenario.
Elie
@Fair Economist:
I am sorry but I just don’t give into the conspiracy plots about the mass infiltration of the media by “the enemies”. I see a lot of opportunitistic and stupid people in the media but if the fantasies of mass infiltration of everything that I ready here on this thread are true, we should just give up and stay in bed. Knock it off and get to work building your communities! There is plenty of opposition to what is happening but we can’t make this happen while sitting on the couch wringing our hands…
catclub
@Major Major Major Major:
Wait, isn’t this the internet?
trollhattan
@JR:
Right idea, wrong intro: “Senator Paul, when did you stop…?”
Eric S.
@Mayken: i was going to make this same comment before i got pulled into a 2 hour meeting.
rikyrah
@MomSense:
A straight up BIRTH OF A NATION campaign.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Fair Economist:
Yet, Rachel has done literally hours of reporting on Manafort and all of his dealings, and hasn’t mentioned Tad Devine ONCE. The guy who ran Bernie’s campaign, partnered with the guy who ran Trump’s campaign, to elect Putin’s candidate. I could stop right here and not say “in Ukraine”, and still be right. I CAN HAZ TV SHOW PLZ
GregB
I believe that Adam’s work on his Maskirovka Slips posts are worthy of national awards.
We were able to follow this Russian ratfucking at the behest of Trump and his loon squad in real time.
Roger Moore
@Fair Economist:
My point, which could certainly have been better made, is that the Russians don’t have to infiltrate every last crevice of our society to get what they want. There are so many voices in our country that are reliable parrots for the Republican viewpoint that they only have to take control of the top. Once they got their people in charge of the Republican party, they could count on the rest of the Republican machine- very much including the editorial staff of FTNYT- to fall in line. This is one of the huge dangers of that kind of authoritarian edifice; it is incredibly vulnerable to a coup at the top.
Millard Filmore
@Roger Moore:
Letting the innocent go free is a normal process of our justice system. Even letting the guilty go free happens way too frequently, or getting a sentence that is way too small for what they did. What you are worried about will not happen unless there is a pogrom. As an example of an easy, non-political, sentence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Big_Branch_Mine_disaster
The owner of that mine, despite willful participation in safety violations that resulted in the deaths of 38 miners, “Blankenship went on to serve a one-year prison sentence.”
Fair Economist
@Elie:
Why do the talk shows have a 2:1 ratio of Republicans to Democrats? Coincidence? Do you really think they can’t do math?
The media is owned by the very wealthy and is mostly answerable to them. To be fair, “infiltration” isn’t the right term. The ultimate bosses are mostly right-wingers and they shape the entire organization.
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: I no longer do. Did for a long time. Thought the Dolt voters were true outliers. They aren’t, they’re mainstream. So I go through the motions, but inside something in me has just given up.
I’m just venting and this is my own personal problem here.
Fair Economist
@Roger Moore: OK, I have to agree with that. And Putin’s agents may not even have had to really get control of the top even. It seems a lot of Republicans are eager to help them from the start.
JR
Might be worth putting on the front page: Danielle Young, writing for the Root, describes being sexually harassed by Jessie Jackson and John Singleton (on separate occasions).
Roger Moore
@BruceJ:
I think there’s more to it than that. He picked Trump because Trump was willing to give him very specifically what he wanted. The Republicans believe, probably correctly, that as long as they give Putin what he wants, he’ll continue to help them. They don’t think it’s going to be their turn in the barrel because they’re happy to continue to cooperate.
JGabriel
@BruceJ:
That one is actually pretty easy. Republicans know that Putin supported Trump to weaken America, and they don’t care because they think that Putin is wrong, that Republican rule – even under Trump – will strengthen America, and/or their personal fortunes. Which, to Republicans, are the same thing.
Edited to Add: Looks like Roger Moore, directly above this comment, makes a similar point.
But her emails!!!
Failing to get the Turtle or Zombie Eyed Granny Starver on board, I probably would have approached individual Senators/House Members with national stature who might have been convinced to speak out. McCain and Lindsey Graham might have been options. Although for all I know, Obama did approach them and they declined.
GregB
@Archon:
That was actually one of my most cynical fears/beliefs is that Russia actually baked such eventualities into their calculations.
Roger Moore
@Millard Filmore:
People’s fears and their actual risks can be dramatically different. Putting the other guy’s mind at ease by agreeing not to do something you weren’t planning on is a very small concession.
Major Major Major Major
It’s active shooter training day at work. Do they do this in other countries?
peter
@TenguPhule: This. Since 1980 (maybe 1968?) republicans have treated politics as a zero-sum game. They have no interest in governing. They want the democratic party to lose, because if the D’s aren’t losing, the R’s are. And that can’t be allowed. Or so it seems to me.
Chris
@Archon:
Doesn’t it take hundreds or thousands of years for previously infertile soil to become fertile?
Roger Moore
@Fair Economist:
Yes. They didn’t have to get complete control, just cut a mutually beneficial deal.
Elie
@TenguPhule:
We are in a tough spot with some risk, but we should just give in to it. We work and we think of overcoming, not losing and being dominated by these people. You are without confidence in what you believe and our ability to recoup what we value. Using your mind set we are lost before we even begin. Your words spell failure and defeat. Who does that to prepare for such an essential and possibly tough battle? Using your mind set, why should any one believe that we can tackle this and set about doing anything but curling up in a ball under the covers? You cede all the power to the enemies of the republic and totally underestimate our power.
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: That’s what the Indian rulers thought when they were using British, Dutch and French troops to settle their own scores against other rulers. Their descendants found out that the support of mercantile powers did not come for free.
FlipYrWhig
@Major Major Major Major: No, because of all of our FREEDOM, Maj x 4. :/
Yutsano
There are dogs that don’t bark you know Cheryl.
But her emails!!!
@Fair Economist:
I agree. I strongly suspect that Mueller is going to uncover some serious Russian linkages on our side as well, just not the ones the wing nuts are going on about. We already know they were feeding the BernieBro vs. Hillbot flame wars from both sides. They probably had at minimum plants in both Hillary’s and Bernie’s camps even if the campaigns themselves were not aware of them. There’s probably a bunch of examples of the Russians spreading quid around that Mueller’s Team is going to have to dig into to determine whether there was any actual quo involved.
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
Ayup.
We look more and more like early fifties Iran or most of Central America throughout the Cold War. Elites that’re no longer sure that they can control their population, and who aren’t willing to sit down and adjust their governing for their populations, so instead they go to their superpower buddies with all the money and extralegal help and go “save us!”
Matt McIrvin
@JGabriel:
A lot of cons work because there’s an ample supply of marks who think they figured out the con and are smart enough to turn it around on the con artist.
Major Major Major Major
@Yutsano: my brother had one when we were growing up! Totally what I thought of when I saw the headline.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Elie:
Seems like the mindset of a suicide bomber.
Cheryl Rofer
@ruemara: Good point.
I have not been following that part of the story as closely as the top. But it seems to be plausible.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Chris:
That makes me feel ashamed to be American. How can anyone feel any pride in their nation when being puppets to foreign powers?
ericblair
@Fair Economist:
I don’t think now that it’s any coincidence whatsoever that a number of powerful media figures have turned out to be sexual abusers. They saw Trump and they saw one of their own.
I’m just surprised that so far they’ve gone down so easy. There must be a pile of shit on each of them.
Matt McIrvin
@But her emails!!!: It seemed to me there was relatively little pro-Hillary trolling coming from them–but not zero; there was some. When they incited that anti-Muslim rally and pro-Muslim counterprotest in Texas, there was some clumsy pro-Hillary stuff on the latter side.
rikyrah
@MisterForkbeard:
Follow the $$$$$
Matt McIrvin
@Elie: That’s what pulls me back from the brink. That kind of nihilism just leads nowhere productive.
Cheryl Rofer
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Steele dossier coming up next, unless there are some other small things that deserve a post.
Chris
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
This is what happens when any group smaller than the total population comes to associate themselves with the country as a whole as completely as the GOP voter base has. It’s not REALLY betraying America, because the only “America” that matters is you and yours.
rikyrah
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
And Stein too
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: and if those people are a big enough voting bloc it’s a major threat to the future of the nation. ?
The Moar You Know
@Chris: It does. That northern tundra soil that will have San Diego weather won’t be able to grow anything at all.
The forests will, but then you’re cutting down and burning boreal forest for ag land which makes the CO2 problem far worse.
rikyrah
@Roger Moore:
Once again, follow the money.
Putin wanted those sanctions lifted.
He wanted that FIVE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLAR AGREEMENT WITH EXXON.
THUS, Putin choosing the Secretary of Exxon.
Yeah yeah yeah, chaos in America feels good, but he wants his $$$$
And, the oligarchs, whose funds are frozen because of the sanctions…want their $$$$
Yutsano
@Major Major Major Major: There was a commenter here who owned a couple and said they ran the roost. Temporarily Max McGee! Did he develop cancer and that’s why we haven’t seen him around?
schrodingers_cat
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: They don’t think they are being puppets, they think they are doing the manipulating. Aren’t I clever, is what I imagine them saying to each other.
ETA: In India’s case the mercantile powers were the part of scene for centuries. It took the British more than 200 years to control most of India.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@rikyrah:
Oh good lord I keep forgetting about that ridiculous fraud. #JillnotHill started trending as soon as it became clear that no matter how many times you multiplied the number of Bernie’s delegates by the number of birds who land on podiums, the Bernie Math wasn’t going to work. Where did all that recount money go?
MJS
@ Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) : No one should. The days of feeling pride in this country, even misplaced pride, should have officially ended on November 8 of last year.
Major Major Major Major
@Yutsano: my brother’s dog was a dick.
Yutsano
@rikyrah: Putin needed the Magritsky Act repealed. He needed the sanctions from Crimea/ Ukraine lifted. He needed a secure military base on the Black Sea to extend Russian naval power in the Mediterranean. Unless there’s a big change out of Washington he’ll be 0 for 3. And not even he can keep the stink of his potential failures from the Russian people for long. He gets these changes or he might be toast with the other oligarchs.
HeleninEire
Somebody give me an open thread. I absolutely know what happened with Rand Paul. Cuz it would be irresponsible to speculate….argle bargle COKIE. The motive anyway. And why they are hiding it. You do not take a baseball bat to your neighbor cuz you are mad about his tax plan. Especially if you are a rich liberal doctor. Unless he does……Wut?
ETA “adultery” is not the right answer.
rikyrah
@But her emails!!!:
What happened to the hinky $10 million that Wilmer never accounted for?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yeah, stopped reading right there.
catclub
Important if true:
McCain is celebrated for being the dog that on occasion yaps a little – in outrage at insult to himself.
Chris
@HeleninEire:
Ask and ye shall receive!
Fair Economist
@ericblair:
That’s because there *is* an enormous pile of shit on them. Take this list for Weinstein: 78 accusers(!!!). Spacey is already over a dozen. O’Reilly and Ailes had long lists too, and I’m sure none of these lists are even close to complete. These are not Verdi villains who broke the rules to pursue one person. These are all people who like the *process* of harassment and do it every time they can.
Unknown known
@Major Major Major Major: nope.
Lived in Canada and the UK for decades each. Not one active shooter still ever. Not a one.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
We’ve got one chance. Just one. You don’t seem to appreciate just how serious things are.
There is no “eventually we’ll win because we are working hard on the side of good”. If Mueller’s investigation gets quashed and if the GOP retains control of both houses of Congress in 2018, that’s it for legal non-violent remedies.
Rule of law will effectively be over.
No matter the public pushback, if the Republicans are not held accountable for bad behavior, then nothing the public marches about or says is going to stop them from becoming even worse. We need a working government to survive as a nation and Republicans don’t know how to work.
Chris
@catclub:
Hey, I live with one of those (pinscher, I think). At least for another week, until she and her owner move out. Believe it or not, I’m actually going to miss her. It’s amazing how much more tolerable such beings are when the media isn’t asking you 24/7 if you knew they were a POW. (Also if they can’t cast votes in Congress or get a spot on the weekend talk shows).
Fair Economist
@Yutsano:
True in the long term, but Tillerson just shut down the sanctions office at State, so he’s 2 out of 3, or at least substantial progress on them, as long as Trump is in office.
Mnemosyne
@Chris:
To be fair, Hillary did win. By three million votes. But the Republicans successfully gerrymandered the whole fucking country to eke out a technical victory.
The polls were not wrong. A majority of millions preferred Hillary.
HeleninEire
@Chris: Thanks. Here I go.. Turn the page..
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne: The polls were wrong on the state level, all around the Great Lakes–the state turnout models failed across that whole region. That was the anomaly they missed.
Nationally, they weren’t wrong, at least not by much. And they were spot on in other parts of the country–they successfully predicted the continuing trend toward the Democrats in the West.
catclub
@Unknown known:
huh? check out Marc Lepine 1989 Quebec
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@rikyrah:
If you’ve seen Ozark, I picture it stacked in the walls of the lake house they paid cash for.
Elie
@Matt McIrvin:
Oh there is no doubt that this is a grueling period and may get even MORE grueling, but it is virtually impossible to tackle a challenge of this severity from a position of fear and defeat. And them just aint words — we have to DO things — register people, get them to vote, vote ourselves, attend community meetings and push for important things.. never never just cede these people any kind of victory…
I live in a fairly red rural area near a blue town in WA state. After the election a large Trump sign on one of the properties along the road started to list and over the last months, it has continued to fail ever so slowly. Interestingly, the grass along the road was mowed, but no one righted the sign, which is at least 3 feet by 5 feet long — so not small. (I have been soooo tempted to go by one day and finish the job, but I think its just fine to see it go like this, slowly but surely). It is now at about 45 degrees. This is failing and falling — just like the sign’s namesake. Tomorrow is a big election here for some big county races. We won’t win them all, but hope to hold our own. We are digging in to recruit candidates for 2018 races for everything from the school boards to city councils and the cemetery district. Every position must have a democratic or progressive candidate running. That is our goal and to help them get elected. I plan to take a picture of that sinkingTrump sign over time…..
Roger Moore
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
They would flip that around: what’s the point of protecting the country from foreign powers if we’re just going to turn it over to our domestic enemies instead? They are literally happier getting help from Putin than they are letting women and minorities have a say.
prostratedragon
@TenguPhule: “I suppose he felt that arresting half of Congress for suspected Treason would get bad media attention.”
Oh thank you. Because the reports he was getting probably made it clear that that was the magnitude of this thing. The unity he was hoping to preserve was much more fundamental that “bipartisanship.”
Elie
@TenguPhule:
It is precisely BECAUSE I appreciate how serious things are that defeatism and negativity can hurt us so much. You are tangled up in settling scores now rather than figuring out how to save us. I agree that we “need a working government”. Getting there will require enormous work and energy to focus on our goal, not getting distracted by visions of punishment and running into hails of bullets” as you said upstring. That is not how you prepare — even though there may be some harsh things ahead. Its just stupid. The vision must always be where you want to go — not punishing your enemies as the end in itself. What do you want to win? What does that look like?
prostratedragon
@MomSense: @Cheryl Rofer: This sequence was also mentioned in Frontline’s Putin document from last week (part 2).
NotMax
Wonder if he knows she was Russian, born Alisa Rosenbaum.
ruemara
@Cheryl Rofer: Not plausible. It was mentioned literally months ago that the hacked info was used in 2016 downticket elections. The kompromot goes down the chain into the party from officials to state house reps. It’s a nasty, treasonous mess.
gene108
What I find fascinating is it is clear to anyone paying attention RUSSIA FAVORS REPUBLICANS!
If Russia favored Democrats, there’d be no end to the howling monkey brigade unleashed by Fox News, et. al. about how untrustworthy and worse Democrats are to be Russia’s puppet.
But it is now the new normal – thanks media – that one of our two major political parties gets help from Russia and no one can do anything about it.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
As I said, we get one shot at this. You’re confusing realism with defeatism and negativity. We are in a really bad spot and this doesn’t seem to be sinking in. The Democrats should be pulling together and this is not happening. The one bright spot is the Mueller investigation, which is the canary in the coalmine. As long as he can investigate and prosecute, the rule of law still stands, shaken and unsteady, but still standing.
But if Republicans quash the investigation or just prevent any of the bad actors from being punished, it will be clear to everyone that IOIYAR is official US government policy. And what that spells for the traditional respect of our laws and institutions is complete breakdown.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
Preparation time was months ago. Food, water, full tank of gas. Getting to know your neighbors.
At this point in time things really are out of all our hands. What Trump and Congress and the rest of the Federal Government do or don’t do between now and the midterms is what is going to determine how this ends.
I’m not saying that working to get out the vote is pointless, but if you’re counting on that as the solution to these problems, you really shouldn’t. A lot of hopes were raised in 2006 & 2008 but the bad actors were never held to account. In part, that’s how we got to where we are now, their example of how crime paid in office inspired others to exceed their achievements.
Waynski
@Aleta:
Whenever Ivanka speaks I’m reminded of this woman: woman
Waynski
I can’t get my link to load.
Corner Stone
@Waynski: I’ve heard that may sometimes be common for men of your age.
J R in WV
@zhena gogolia:
In most states you can be fired for having brown hair and blue eyes. I suspect she will do fine at a better company, hope so anyway.
J R in WV
@Roger Moore:
And why the hell can’t we? Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and if you’re running for office you need to know where every dime you receive and spend came from. Especially if there is a generally known foreign attack on the election process.
Put them all in jail, or at least banned from being involved in politics in any way, or working for the government or political influence groups. Get a real job and work for your living like the rest of us!
hugely
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: hey im still here. Fat, white, male, bitter. Fuck bernie and tad devine, i never fell for their bullshit. Fuck the repubs for weakening our politics and nation with their truth free world view. Partei uber alles assholes