Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Come on, man.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Books are my comfort food!

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

I’m just a talker, trying to find a channel!

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

I really should read my own blog.

You are here: Home / If I were a carpenter

If I were a carpenter

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This is a defense of Roy Moore:

“Take the Bible. Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Ziegler said choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

“There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here,” Ziegler concluded. “Maybe just a little bit unusual.”

Reader Interactions

93Comments

  2. 2.

    dmsilev

    They became parents of Jesus

    I’m not Christian, and even I am rolling my eyes at this. I guess “The Virgin Mary” was just a stage name?

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    There are no depths of depravity these creatures will not delve in order to defend their ideology of racism.

  8. 8.

    Davebo

    From Above the Law

    So Moore was a 30-something ADA and Breitbart seems to be saying:

    * Having pizza and wine dates with an 18-year-olds when you are a grown-ass man is fine.
    * Openly dating a 17-year-old when you are 34 is fine.
    * Propositioning a 14-YEAR-OLD AT THE MALL IS FINE, and anyway her mom said ‘no’ because she wasn’t 16 yet.

    Breitbart also, helpfully, reminds us that the age of consent in Alabama is 16.

    I’d like to helpfully remind you that Moore was a goddman ADA at the time of these allegations. In what UNIVERSE is it okay for a STATE OFFICIAL to be propositioning a little girl pretending to be one of SANTA’S HELPERS at the mall? JESUS CHRIST! WHO DOES THAT?

  9. 9.

    bystander

    That Breitbart is frothing over this tells you how hurt these guys were by Tuesday’s elections. But, by the same token that twitler’s self-avowed sexual assaults didn’t cost him anything, Moore will suffer nothing. This is just another example of how corrupt and rotted the repub party is.

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    @HyperSphericalCow: Halfway down that thread, someone links to this, some reactions by local Alabama GOP county chairs. My “favorite” was the last one, which boils down to “He may be a pedophile, but at least he’s not a Democrat”.

  12. 12.

    Joyce Harmon

    I remember when twenty-something college graduate Monica Lewinsky was framed as tragically young and helpless prey – and now high school girls are fair game? “Oh, that was different because…”

  13. 13.

    Roger Moore

    I’d hammer on my piglet, I’d
    Collect the 7 dollars and I’d
    Buy a big prosthetic forehead
    And wear it on my real head

  15. 15.

    Ian G.

    Remember when Ted Haggard smoking crystal meth with a gay hooker was a scandal? That’s tame stuff. Haggard wasn’t molesting children, at least, which seems to be the go-to way of getting one’s rocks off when you’re a wingnut religious thug.

  17. 17.

    JGabriel

    “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

    “There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here,” Ziegler concluded.

    “I mean, it’s not like the New Testament ever said Mary wasn’t into pettting,” Ziegler said, then added in creepily wistful tone, “Or anal.”

  21. 21.

    Tim C.

    Wait wait wait wait….

    First, before anything else the Moore defenders must decide if they think the accusation is true or not. Roy Moore says it’s not true. So everyone everyone everyone who is doing some kind of dumbass “This is fine” defense needs to be confronted with the fact they they are calling Roy Moore a liar.

  26. 26.

    Fair Economist

    @Yutsano: In addition, according to the woman’s account, he didn’t just *date* her, he groped her against her will. That is way over a bunch of bright lines no matter how much slack you cut for the age difference. It’s literal, unquestionable, child *molestation*. Lots of boys half his age at the time have gone to jail for less – and I’ll bet Moore sentenced a bunch of them accompanied by intense harangues with lots of Bible quotes.

  27. 27.

    JGabriel

    @dmsilev:

    My “favorite” was the last one, which boils down to “He may be a pedophile, but at least he’s not a Democrat”.

    The GOP already set sail on that boat when they nominated Trump. It’s their default logic now.

  28. 28.

    Roger Moore

    @Joyce Harmon:
    In fairness, Clinton’s behavior was different because he was Lewinski’s boss. Of course that only makes him guilty of a tort, not a felony, which it sounds as if Moore was guilty of.

  29. 29.

    kindness

    The lengths these good christians are going to in order to give a pedophile cover are amazing. How do they have the gall to call themselves Christians? And I will bet every one of them still thinks Bill Clinton should have been impeached for adultery.

  33. 33.

    Barbara

    This is so much bullshit. Here is what I say to this guy: For Christ’s sake, literally, stop invoking the name of Jesus to justify things you would threaten to kill someone for if they did this to one of your own kids. If a 32 year old man showed up at your door to take your 14 year old daughter out you would be running to find the shotgun. You know it, we know it and you know we know it. The fact that you have to excuse it, and can’t even say “there is no way to defend this” and leave it at that is totally repulsive. Stop trying to pretend you are an example for anyone about truth or morality or righteousness. Moore is a perv and IT DOESN’T MATTER TO YOU. Other people’s kids don’t matter to you.

  37. 37.

    Mike in DC

    I’m not so cynical about Republican voters that I don’t think this will shift any votes…among Republican women voters, particularly suburban women.

  38. 38.

    scav

    Now, if he’d followed her into a bathroom to cop a look, he’d be something we must instantly change all sorts of laws to prevent. But if he’s doing it in cars, isolated woods, during breaks between court cases, well he’s doing the Lord’s work!

  39. 39.

    No Drought No More

    If local news organizations throughout Alabama are honest, the monologues of America’s late night comedians will lead their reporting for the next few days. Praise the Lord…

  41. 41.

    Baud

    @Mike in DC:

    I’m not so cynical about Republican voters that I don’t think this will shift any votes

    I feel the same. But you know what might shift some votes? Moore is refusing to debate Jones. That may give of the stench of fear, and being afraid of a Dem might cross a line with some of Moore’s supporters or people who might actually be on the fence.

  42. 42.

    Mnemosyne

    Someone in one of the threads below pointed out that the guy gets his own Bible story wrong — John the Baptist’s parents were the same age, which is why it was a miracle that the wife got pregnant with JtB in her old age.

  48. 48.

    Hoodie

    @Fair Economist: Why, I think Elvis treated Priscilla better than that (if you overlook the booze and drugs). At least he was only 10 years older! Now, my great grandmother got married at 13, but that was in 1890. It seems that parts of the country are regressing like the Gutres in “The Gospel According to St. Mark”.

  49. 49.

    Mnemosyne

    @Mike in DC:

    I don’t think it will convince Republicans to vote for Jones, but it may convince some of them not to show up to vote at all. Getting those voters to stay home is just as valuable if we can turn our voters out at the same time.

  50. 50.

    dmsilev

    @Mnemosyne: There’s some muttering about getting Luther Strange to run as a write-in candidate. Splitting the GOP vote would be a glorious thing.

  51. 51.

    MJS

    Please, oh please let Trump tweet about this. I’m thinking something along the lines of “I supported Luther Strange in the primary. Loser Alabama voters didn’t listen. Sad!”

  53. 53.

    lamh36

    @dmsilev: yep…I said on twiiter, REPUBLICANS are ok w/a P***y grabber as Prez…so of course they rather voter for a WHITE pedo than a Democrat…smh

  55. 55.

    BC in Illinois

    Is it asking too much, that people who quote the Bible (as what is supposedly an authoritative source for them) should actually, you know, READ the Bible?

    Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist.

    In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. . . . But they were childless because Elizabeth was not able to conceive, and they were both very old. (Luke 1:5-7)

    That’s all it says: “They were both very old.” Nothing about Zechariah being older than Elizabeth. This guy made up the stuff about Zechariah being “extremely old to marry Elizabeth” out of . . whatever you make stuff out of in Alabama.

    Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.

    Never says any of this in Matthew or Luke.

    Just that they were “betrothed” (legally pledged) to be married, but the marriage had not yet been consummated. Period. There is a tradition that Joseph was older, and throughout history many husbands have been older than their wives, but there is nothing in the Bible that says this.

    [Matter of fact, the International Marian Research Institute at the University of Dayton (a very Catholic institution) says this about the age of Mary and Joseph: Since the Scriptures do not explicitly discuss this question, no one is certain of the answer. At one time, Joseph was assumed to be elderly when he married Mary. However, now we believe that Mary and Joseph were both in their teens when Jesus was born, around sixteen and eighteen respectively. This was the norm for Jewish newlyweds at that time.]

    When someone of the Bible Belt says “Take the Bible . . .” it’s time to take nothing for granted.

  56. 56.

    mai naem mobile

    Well, aaah tell ya, these gals were hussies with their red red lips and catholi11c school skirts. Well, aaah could not help it. They should dress more modestly.

  58. 58.

    Calouste

    Either the Alabama GOP thinks everyone does it, or it was an open secret Moore did it.

    And anyone willing to take a bet that Moore did not have sex until he got married at 38 or so? No?

  60. 60.

    lamh36

    Chuck Todd asked Charlie Cook if Roy Moore would still win…and Charlie Cook didn’t hesistate…”yes”.

    Chuckles was all wincing…”but…evangelicals…” and Charlie Cook was like “sorry, but it’s it STILL highly likely that Roy Moore will be swearing in as a Senator after December…”

    Cook and all the other panelists were like…hell, the “conservative/evangelical” base is MORE likely to believe Moore about FAKE NEWS and STILL vote for him

    The former Bushie, w/the Southern accent on MTP, is REALLY trying to hold onto the idea that if “another” story was to come through, that Roy Moore would then be in trouble w/the conserv/evangelical base…and the rest of the panel including Chuckles were like…nah…I don’t even think another coming forward would mean anything either..

  61. 61.

    scav

    Wait a minute. In those biblical examples as defense, he emphasises that there were children in both relationships (ignore the piss-poor logic and theology). Is that state auditor implying that there is another shoe to drop about Roy Moore and the chillen?

  63. 63.

    Roger Moore

    @Dolly Llama:
    It’s the continuation of the “If I were a carpenter” in that song. The joke, such as it is, is that it’s not the reference Doug! was aiming for.

  64. 64.

    Mnemosyne

    @Calouste:

    It sounds like it was an open secret. Several of the women say that it seemed normal at the time and their parents encouraged them to date Moore. It was only when they were adults themselves that it started to seem awfully weird that a man in his 30s was dating high school girls.

  65. 65.

    Eric U.

    the age at which couples could get married in West Virginia was 13. Kids from my part of Virginia would go across the line to get married, didn’t need parental consent. Not sure when that changed, AFAIK it was still true in the early ’80s.

    Crazy to think about

  66. 66.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @lamh36: the whole christian/evangelical stuff was always bullshit. they never cared about morality. They just used it as a cover to defend their bigotries.

  70. 70.

    JR

    But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:6)

  72. 72.

    Obdurodon

    Just one more “it’s in the Bible” step toward the Handmaid’s Tale world these creeps want to live in. That book was *way* too prophetic for my liking.

    Also, the fact that Breitbart is trying so hard to excuse this makes me wonder what kind of personal stake they have in normalizing this kind of thing. Would it really surprise *anyone at all* to find that they share some of these tendencies?

  73. 73.

    catclub

    @dmsilev:

    Splitting the GOP vote would be a glorious thing.

    That won’t really help. I bet there is requirement for a majority – so it leads to a runoff.

  74. 74.

    catclub

    @lamh36:

    I said on twiiter, REPUBLICANS are ok w/a P***y grabber as Prez

    I still think Trump is unique in his ability to skate past these. Moore will feel an effect.

  78. 78.

    Dolly Llama

    @Roger Moore: Ah! I’ve got it now! Thanks. And no thanks for giving me that damn earworm.

    Everybody wants a rock to wind a piece of string around …

  81. 81.

    VOR

    Unless you can walk on water and turn water into wine, my advice is to avoid comparing yourself to Jesus, or anything in that neighborhood.

  82. 82.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    Rumor has it that the Dirty Old JHVH dude was, like 14.5 billion years older than Mary.

    His fetish for aural sex was pretty skeevy also, too.

  83. 83.

    J R in WV

    @Eric U.:

    No, dude. In WV there was and is a 3 day waiting period, unlike Va. When I grew up and kids wanted to elope, in the 1960s, they went to Pearisburg, Va, where there was no waiting period, you could just pull up to the JP or Preacher’s and do it.

    Then you could go to the motel and DO IT!!! Not that we did that. We got a court order to waive the 3 day waiting period because we had car trouble up in Uniontown PA after graduation at WVU.

  84. 84.

    the Conster

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    There are no depths of depravity these creatures will not delve in order to defend their ideology of racism Naziism.

    Not only can it happen here, it did happen here.

  86. 86.

    Honus

    @Eric U.: I’m pretty sure you’re mistaken about that. West Virginia adopted the same consent law as Virginia after it seceded. I grew up there (I’m 62) and the age of consent has been 16 for as long as I can remember, and 18 for marriage w/o parental consent. Now Kentucky…

  87. 87.

    the Conster

    @lamh36:

    Todd, Cook, Moore – all beneficiaries of white male supremacy who’ve all failed upwards, chuckling about Roy Moore being elected no matter what. Who will be the first white male media member who will name the system of oppression everyone not a white male suffers under? I think we’ll all die wondering.

  88. 88.

    J R in WV

    @Honus:

    In 1971 when we got married, I was 20, and my daddy had to sign for me. My bride was 21, and I became her responsibility on our wedding day! Then we drove to my homeport where my ship was based for a honey moon.

  89. 89.

    Eric U.

    @Honus: I certainly could be wrong, but I distinctly recall an article about it in the Roanoke times, interviewing couples getting married just across the border.

    After I posted that, I got to thinking that it looked a little weird, possibly justifying Moore. But I got started thinking about that since all the republicans are making excuses about Moore, and how it’s not so bad, etc. They could change the law. But only the wrong kind of people get prosecuted under those laws, after all.

  90. 90.

    randy khan

    @lamh36:

    I can’t say Cook is wrong, and in fact his take might explain the instant reaction of McConnell et al. – they could get credit for condemning Moore without putting a Republican seat at risk. And much though McConnell hates Moore, he’d still rather have Moore than Jones. But we’ll see, and we may have to wait to see if there’s some other stuff out there on Moore, which could make a difference.

    That said, I love the hypothesis that McConnell had something to do with getting the story to the Post. I would be delighted if it were true.

  93. 93.

    gratuitous

    Interesting argument; so, would you leave your pubescent daughter in Moore’s charge while you and your spouse went out for the evening? No? Hmmmm.

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