Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Come on, man.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Republicans in disarray!

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Houston Debate Open Thread: We Have A Winner

Houston Debate Open Thread: We Have A Winner

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Probably a couple winners, actually — but the immediate standout has been decided…

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149Comments

  1. 1.

    Butter Emails

    I don’t really want the bar for Warren lowered – she might stub her toe on it. Instead, I want all the bars for all the Presidential candidates placed at the same level hers is. That includes having the press borrow Alvin and a shovel and then go dig up Shitgibbon’s bar from it’s location 2 miles below the seafloor in the deepest point of the Marianas Trench.

  3. 3.

    PsiFighter37

    For me, it’s Warren or Biden given the current poll standings. Harris is out, and the only one of the marginals that is interesting, if he can make a dent, is Booker.

    Flame away! I’m trying to file a newborn’s nails, so I am facing tougher.

    PF37 +3

  4. 4.

    Damien

    I think you’ve got it twisted: I want every presidential candidate to have to clear the bar she’s setting.

    I mean, honestly I want EVERY candidate to have to hit that mark. Let’s start weeding out the bullshitters *cough*sanders*cough*gabbbard*cough*
    Gosh, excuse me, I must have something stuck in my craw…

  6. 6.

    Jay

    It's WILD that the modern, mainstream-conservative claim that liberals are stealing elections by letting the wrong people vote, in order to enact a dastardly plan to ruin America (by changing race relations, even!), *can be found in identical form in SC's secession declaration.*— A Sweet Slug (@DAL9001) September 14, 2019

  8. 8.

    Jay

    Every conservative headline is like Your Poor Retiree Mom Will Lose Everything Under Warren then you read the actual article and it’s like “ultrabillionaires might have to give up their eighth yacht and human chess board where the pieces are their servants”— Jess Dweck (@TheDweck) September 13, 2019

  9. 9.

    Major Major Major Major

    The newest approved attack from Bernietown is to say “well if she has a plan for everything, why does she just point to Sanders’s plan for healthcare??”

    It’s very lame and makes no sense, so I’ll assume desperation.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    I honestly was not overwhelmed with Warren in the debate, but I had been paying attention to her for a while.

  12. 12.

    Elizabelle

    @PsiFighter37: Congratulations on your new little daughter. Exciting news. Hope you are settling well into life with sleep deprivation.

    Will you tell us what her first name is? If you’d rather maintain privacy, that’s fine too.

  13. 13.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    My wife went to Woman’s Hall of Fame induction today. She just texted me a pic of her talking to Justice Sotomayor. Sweet!

  14. 14.

    trollhattan

    @Jay:
    Would Betsy DeVos be able to name her eighth yacht? Remember where it’s moored?

    “You know, the robins egg blue one.”

  16. 16.

    Mike in Pasadena

    Every answer to a debate question should include a criticism of Trump. The fight must be taken to Trump. Trump is the opposition. We need to see who can hit Trump hard. Warren is the candidate most capable of doing that. (I suspect, but I don’t know for certain.l
    Rant over

  17. 17.

    trollhattan

    @HumboldtBlue:
    Okay, Florida encapsulated in a single image. Raccoon-gator invasion!

    The kid ran her second ever XC race today and placed in the teens out of more than 250, top in her school district. #DadBrag

  19. 19.

    Shana

    @Jay: I saw that ad Thursday night and thought “wait, the Khmer Rouge weren’t socialist they were communist”. I know I was a young teenager when they were in power but I definitely remembered that. So why did they make an ad saying they were socialists? Are they assuming we’re that stupid?

  20. 20.

    sukabi

    Warren talks like a person, which is a rare skill in American politics. She didn’t get lost last night and she didn’t seem angry. And she didn’t misspeak. I want the bar she has to clear to be the same height as Biden’s.

    No. I want the bar for Biden (and the other men) to be as high as it is for Warren and the other women running.

    That would give us a much better choice.

  26. 26.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Both the NYTimes and the WaPo ran opinion pieces today maintaining that Trump is the real winner of the Democratic debate(s). Both, needless to say, were by conservative writers: “Donald Trump Clearly Won the Democratic Debate” by Kathleen Parker, right-wing staff columnist for the Post, and, in the Times, “So Far, Trump Is Winning the Democratic Debates” by guest columnist Christopher Buskirk, editor/publisher of the right-wing blog American Greatness (I had not heard of him previously, at least not enough to remember).

    I’m not at all surprised, of course;just thought I’d mention it.

  27. 27.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    Kitten report.

    My husband wants to rename Tux. I can’t say how much my calling Tux “Biggie” might have played into this decision.

    Their vocabulary has expanded as they’ve settled in. The first day or so, they said mostly “Feed me!” and “Put me down!” We’re now greeted with chirps and trills.

    They’ve made it clear that they want a dinosaur diet. The response to being offered chicken-based cat food was emphatically enthusiastic. The response to rotisserie chicken was … dramatic. Unfortunately, the video was at a bad angle, all tails and growls, so you’ll have to take my word for it.

  29. 29.

    Bill Arnold

    @Jay:
    Thanks for the link (very ugh, had not read the SC declaration previously).
    One has to do an abstracted reading of the SC secession declaration to read it that way; the text is mainly about preservation of the institution of chattel slavery and the preservation of the wealth of the slaveholding class, even the relevant bit:

    This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

    Part of the arguments leading to the 14th amendment, I assume. The North should have been much harsher on the South post-war-of-the-rebellion.

  31. 31.

    Yutsano

    Since we’re open thread:

    To the shock of no one (at least here on this blog) Clarence Thomas is indeed a rage machine of racial resentment. Fuck Biden for letting this slimeball on the court.

  32. 32.

    ruemara

    @PsiFighter37: Why is Harris out?

    And, I’m not sold on Warren. Well, I’m not sold on anyone. They’ll have to prove they can win first. Warren hasn’t proven that to me. Wonkiness is not what Americans adore. Sadly. We’re also seeing more of her nonsense with claiming Native American ID coming up. Thank the Sanders team for that mess. We’l just have to see what shakes out.

  34. 34.

    Jay

    @Shana:

    In the kkkonservative airless pseudointellectual bubble, Sochializm!!!!!!! has been a scary word and descriptor for every good policy but is never mentioned when discusing the MIC or Corporate Welfare.

    It’s a dogwhistle out to their base, who really are that dumb.

  38. 38.

    HRA

    https://www.nytimes.com › 1991/10/16 › the-thomas-confirmation-how-the-…
    Oct 16, 1991 – … call by which the Senate voted tonight to confirm Judge Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. … Delaware: Biden (D) No; Roth (R) Yes.

  40. 40.

    Bill Arnold

    @Shana:

    So why did they make an ad saying they were socialists? Are they assuming we’re that stupid?

    Yes.
    The wikipedia article is pretty clear.
    “The Party Centre’s ideology combined elements of Marxism with a strongly xenophobic form of Khmer nationalism.”

  43. 43.

    waratah

    @Baud:I felt the same as you I thought she leaned into Bernie quite a lot and weather she wanted to he took over like he was protecting her. I was surprised to see that. She might have been expecting attacks this debate but I wanted her to look strong.

  45. 45.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Betty:

    It’s meant to be an original, refreshingly counter-intuitive take, but at this point it just seems lazy. I wouldn’t even have noticed, probably, but the fact that both papers ran similar pieces on the same day — presumably without active collusion — tells me that the right is bankrupt of ideas. Not that that hasn’t been clear for a long time.

  48. 48.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: You and me both. I also didn’t think that Castro was all that mean. I was not impressed with Joe Biden’s babbling when asked about addressing the historic injustice of slavery either. I don’t think all that ails us is bad economic policy. Warren is Bernie with a brain and policies. And that’s why she is not my first choice.

  53. 53.

    MomSense

    @ruemara:

    I’m not a fan. With the caveat that I will vote for the D nominee, I really hope it isn’t Warren. I think the Native American mess is going to be framed and will stick as claimed Cherokee to get an unfair advantage. It will be like the butter emails all over again.

    I also have some policy differences, and think her skills are better suited for the Senate.

  55. 55.

    J R in WV

    I have taken a swing at the New Yorker article on Clarence, and have read other articles about him. No more, please. Thanks.

  56. 56.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    Someone asked about the cave Tux was playing in. It came with the kittens; we thought that having a familiar condo would help acclimate them. I had never seen one like that before, but I managed to find the manufacturer’s site. Every attempt to link to the condo has made the comment vanish, so search on Amazon for “Prevue Catville Loft Cat Furniture” to see the exact model.

  59. 59.

    Redshift

    @Shana:

    I saw that ad Thursday night and thought “wait, the Khmer Rouge weren’t socialist they were communist”. I know I was a young teenager when they were in power but I definitely remembered that. So why did they make an ad saying they were socialists? Are they assuming we’re that stupid?

    A go-to conservative argument against socialism for my entire life has been “socialism is the same as communism and we all know communism is bad, right?” So, yes, they are.

  60. 60.

    Jinchi

    the professional political class is so used to Warren’s comprehensive competence that it seems ho-hum.

    There is so much wrong with that sentence especially if it’s literally true.

  62. 62.

    Emerald

    Harris is far from out. Warren is getting very big crowds but they are as glow-in-the-dark white as I am. Harris also is getting big crowds, but the media appears to be studiously ignoring her. Harris’s crowds are diverse.

    The path to the nomination runs through Black women. If and when Biden fades Harris is going to become formidable.

    She’s also the strongest candidate in the general because she can motivate POC to vote, just as Obama did, which I think is the reason the far left, far right, and the media have been smearing her. And she’s freakin’ tough. They know she’s the one to beat. tRump is seriously scared of her. He never responded at all to her calling him out straight on in the debate.

    Plus, if Warren is the nominee, Baker will appoint a Republican senator to replace her if she wins. That would be seriously not good, and I wish people would pay attention to that very serious problem with her.

    Took me awhile to make up my mind between the two, but I’ve chosen.

  63. 63.

    waratah

    @MomSense: they are trying to stick Beto with fake Mexican because of his nickname but Beto is not worried about it. They have been trying to do this since the senate race I am tired of them repeating over and over

  64. 64.

    Baud

    @Emerald:

    She’s also the strongest candidate in the general because she can motivate POC to vote,

    If that’s true she should easily win the Dem primary.

  65. 65.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Emerald:

    Baker will appoint a Republican senator to replace her if she wins.

    No, he won’t. The seat will be filled by a special election.

  66. 66.

    Jinchi

    I want the bar she has to clear to be the same height as Biden’s.

    I’d like the bar he has to clear to be as high as hers.

  68. 68.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    I don’t know why I’m not allowed to post links now, but there’s a new clip up at my Youtube channel.

  70. 70.

    Another Scott

    @MomSense: I just spent some time reviewing some of my old comments from 2015. I’m was mostly undecided then, and [now I] have some I like but I’m not fully committed yet.

    By the time MOM imploded and Wilmer showed his true colors, the choice was very easy for me.

    I think we’ve got plenty of time before we should be striking people off our lists.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  78. 78.

    Jinchi

    @Gin & Tonic:

    The seat will be filled by a special election.

    Right. Massachusetts has a strange habit of electing Republican governors, even while Democrats dominate every other major office. The legislature solved this particular problem a while back.

    In 2004, the Massachusetts General Court had withdrawn the authority of the governor to fill a U.S. Senate vacancy by appointment, to prevent the then-Governor Mitt Romney, a Republican, from appointing a fellow Republican to fill the remainder of Democrat John Kerry’s Senate term, if Kerry were to win the 2004 presidential election. The legislation was enacted over Romney’s veto.

    They first used this law to fill Ted Kennedy’s seat.

  81. 81.

    Hildebrand

    @Emerald: My congregation, a black congregation in Detroit, has not settled on anyone. They don’t like Bernie, other than that, they are waiting. I asked about Sen. Harris, they are withholding judgment. Warren, Biden, Harris – it’s wide open.

  86. 86.

    Emerald

    @Hildebrand: Yep. That’s what I hear. Wait till the ground organization she’s building springs into action. It’s how she’s won every election, always coming from behind, often way behind.

  90. 90.

    Jay

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    In the deep dive on Tulsi’s funding and the Sangh, there’s a lot of coverage of a bunch of the Big Money groups in Texas, so Modi’s gooa give a speech and meet and greet, then go home with bags of US dollars, to invest in Indian Elections and more corruption.

  96. 96.

    TS (the original)

    @schrodingers_cat: Whoever gets the nom – trump will have something to get his troops to sing about – I think Sen Warren can handle it as well as any of the others. The biggest thing in dealing with trump is never apologize. Hillary called them deplorables – 100% true but the apology took away from that truth.

  97. 97.

    schrodingers_cat

    @SiubhanDuinne: My guess is that it is impressive to his base back in India. Houston has a substantial Gujarati population, he was the CM (Chief Minister) of that state for 2 terms. Gujju expats are big donors of the BJP. So in short, good publicity and money.

  98. 98.

    FlyingToaster

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Exactly, and the dates are set by the (Democratic) Prince of Darkness Secretary of the Commonwealth, per the legislation, in specified # of weeks for the primaries and elections.

    The difference this time is that the leading D candidate for SPW’s seat will NOT be the “Satanic Panic” Mass AG, but Joe III. And the Republican Bench here is, um, mostly occupied by billionaires and religious whackjobs. Unless Charlie wants to go to DC himself, they don’t have a viable statewide candidate.

  103. 103.

    Steve in the ATL

    @schrodingers_cat: got up early this morning and fed the dog, then went back to sleep and had a bizarre dream that you made me garrote two people. There was a witness to the second murder but I woke myself up before having to face consequences.

    So…did you Manchurian Candidate me or I am simply in desperate need of therapy?

  105. 105.

    Butter Emails

    @Emerald:

    Yep. That’s what I hear. Wait till the ground organization she’s building springs into action. It’s how she’s won every election, always coming from behind, often way behind.

    It needs to spring into action fairly quickly. Harris and Warren are (or at least were) in very similar positions as candidates in that they need to show that they can actually win. If they don’t manage to do well in a couple of the early primaries, they are both going to find it difficult to grab the undecided and Biden supporters whose entire philosophy is “Just win baby.”

  109. 109.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Raven: I still hate that hill! Bring on the Catholics—we looked good today. I have a charity event that night and I’m not sure what to do. Send a check and watch the game?

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t know—you tell me!

  110. 110.

    Jinchi

    Biden definitely is in the best position with a core constituency. But that doesn’t mean he has this race locked up.

    October 2007:

    Sen. Hillary Clinton’s lead over Sen. Barack Obama, her chief rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, is growing among African-American voters who are registered Democrats, and particularly among black women, a poll said Wednesday.

    Sen. Hillary Clinton is the top choice of African-American Democrats, a new poll suggests.

    Among black registered Democrats overall, Clinton had a 57 percent to 33 percent lead over Obama.

    January 2008:

    In a national survey by CNN/Opinion Research Corp., 59 percent of black Democrats backed Obama, an Illinois Democrat, for their party’s presidential nomination, with 31 percent supporting Clinton, the senator from New York.

    The 28 point lead for Obama is a major reversal from October, when Clinton held a 24 point lead among black Democrats.

  111. 111.

    Butter Emails

    The difference this time is that the leading D candidate for SPW’s seat will NOT be the “Satanic Panic” Mass AG, but Joe III. And the Republican Bench here is, um, mostly occupied by billionaires and religious whackjobs. Unless Charlie wants to go to DC himself, they don’t have a viable statewide candidate.

    Baker would be the real risk, but I suspect he wants to be President and considers remaining governor that stronger play.

  112. 112.

    Ken

    @Baud:

    Isn’t 3% almost always higher than 1.5%?

    That’s 1.5 times the inflation rate. With recent rates, that would be about 2.5%.

    Many economists have been predicting that the US will soon enter hyperinflation – some of them for decades. If eventually the stopped-clock principle pays off for them, the rule would mean that housing costs could increase at 50% faster than inflation. Presumably that means some other cost, such as food or fuel, would graciously step back and allow housing its share of the overall inflation rate.

  113. 113.

    TS (the original)

    @Butter Emails: I want to see a woman win – it seems 2016 has people afeared that only a white man can defeat trump – the media were so anti Hillary they gave trump pass after pass & then the politics – that could find NOTHING in those emails, despite years of investigating – came up with Comey.

    Any of the women will eat trump in a debate (if he ventures there)

  115. 115.

    Richard Guhl

    @Baud:
    Her obstacle is Joe Biden, who has hugged on to Obama tightly. This has endeared him to South Carolina African American church ladies. In 2008, they were all for Hillary until Obama won in Iowa, and that removed their fears of voting for a black man.

  120. 120.

    Butter Emails

    @Jinchi:

    Right. But on January 3rd, Obama eked out a win in Iowa. Then on the 8th Clinton only narrowly beat him in New Hampshire. Harris and/or Warren need to show they can win, then hopefully the votes will follow.

  128. 128.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I figured something like this would come out. From the authors of forthcoming book on Kavanaugh (I thought there was no “u”)

    At least seven people, including Ms. Ramirez’s mother, heard about the Yale incident long before Mr. Kavanaugh was a federal judge. Two of those people were classmates who learned of it just days after the party occurred, suggesting that it was discussed among students at the time.
    We also uncovered a previously unreported story about Mr. Kavanaugh in his freshman year that echoes Ms. Ramirez’s allegation. A classmate, Max Stier, saw Mr. Kavanaugh with his pants down at a different drunken dorm party, where friends pushed his pen*s into the hand of a female student. Mr. Stier, who runs a nonprofit organization in Washington, notified senators and the F.B.I. about this account, but the F.B.I. did not investigate and Mr. Stier has declined to discuss it publicly. (We corroborated the story with two officials who have communicated with Mr. Stier.)
    Mr. Kavanaugh did not speak to us because we could not agree on terms for an interview. But he has denied Dr. Ford’s and Ms. Ramirez’s allegations, and declined to answer our questions about Mr. Stier’s account.

    ETA: That last bit I find quite interesting– Kavanaugh knew this was coming. Then again, I guess we all expected some kind of deeper dive

  134. 134.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think Kavanaugh and the Republicans just don’t care.

    Absent video footage, they’ve gotten him over the hump and into the SC, and Republican Senators don’t have to pretend to care. They can just say “It’s more Democratic underhanded attempts to attack him and they can’t let it go. Feinstein sucks.” and move on.

  135. 135.

    Jackie

    @Ohio Mom: @Ohio Mom: I bit them, too. I remembered how upset my Dad was when he accidentally cut my baby niece’s finger trying to trim her nails with a fingernail clipper – biting got the job done without accidents. Curious to know the “new rule?”

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    @schrodingers_cat:

    My guess is that it is impressive to his base back in India. Houston has a substantial Gujarati population, he was the CM (Chief Minister) of that state for 2 terms. Gujju expats are big donors of the BJP. So in short, good publicity and money.

    Thanks for the background information on the visit.

  137. 137.

    Ohio Mom

    @Jackie: I think it is because mouths are full of germs and if you break the newborn’s skin, the germs will go right in.

    I’m not convinced but I say, whatever works for PsiFighter37. It’s nerve wracking being a first time parent, and I know we all want to cheer the new parents on.

  140. 140.

    Cacti

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The newest approved attack from Bernietown is to say “well if she has a plan for everything, why does she just point to Sanders’s plan for healthcare??”

    It’s very lame and makes no sense, so I’ll assume desperation.

    That might actually be the only legit gripe that’s ever come out of the Bernie camp.

    Warren should jettison Berniecare. It’s a general election loser.

  142. 142.

    geg6

    @Baud:

    Exactly. I have seen no evidence this is true. She’s an okay candidate and I would have no trouble voting for her, but she hasn’t impressed me at all. Her fans, however, are approaching Berniebro levels of tunnel vision. Which makes me even more leery of her. For me right now, it’s Warren and Booker who I find impressive.

  143. 143.

    Jay

    @Cacti:

    Yeah, how are you ever going to pay for it?

    It’s just another one of those thousands of things other Countries can do, but America can’t.

    Even moreso with Orangemandius’s debt and deficit.

    The only real solution is kill all the olds and cut taxes tor the jerb crator class.

  145. 145.

    Another Scott

    OpenThread?

    Twitter (reformatted):

    Bernie Sander Verified account @BernieSanders

    What’s the most absurd medical bill you have ever received?

    Jennifer Gunter Verified account @DrJenGunter

    $600 for my son who lived about 3 minutes. He received no medical care. At all. As he died almost immediately he didn’t get enrolled in my insurance plan, so I got the bill. From the hospital where I was a doctor.

    5:26 PM – 14 Sep 2019

    (Boggle!!) :-(

    While corner cases make bad law, someone should ask Biden and Castro (and all the rest) how their plans would handle such situations. Is everyone covered, or do they have to sign up first?

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Grrr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  147. 147.

    jl

    @Major Major Major Major: I think it’s Bernie Bullshit (a phrase which will probably come in more and more handy as the primary progresses). One phrase made for rhetorical effect at the debate doesn’t mean Warren’s plan is the same as Sanders’. Warren’s Medicare for All plan is far more flexible and realistic about how to handle private insurance (I suspect to prepare the way for carve outs and grandpappy clauses for quality union plans). Which is why the purity left is making the absurd charge that Warren is really a GOP corporate shill.

    I don’t think Sanders himself is responsible for a lot the Bernie Bullshit that appears in social media. But a lot of it is put out by the goofballs Sanders has hired, so he is ultimately responsible for it. But this is small beans right now. Sanders is smart enough to continue the explicit or implicit nonaggression pact during the debates, and they get far more attention that squabbling on twitter and similar social media hellholes.

  149. 149.

    Spanish Moss

    @Emerald:
    Massachusetts replaces senators through election. Depending on when the seat becomes open, it is either a special election or a regular election.

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