Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

John Fetterman: Too Manly for Pennsylvania.  Paid for by the Oz for Senator campaign.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Republicans in disarray!

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

The revolution will be supervised.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Americans barely caring about Afghanistan is so last month.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

You are here: Home / Food & Recipes / Food / Sunday Morning Open Thread: Indoor Urban Agriculture

Sunday Morning Open Thread: Indoor Urban Agriculture

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black eyed susan ozark hillbilly Chat

(Photo by Ozark Hillbilly)

From the Washington Post, a story that will not surprise anyone who’s ever tried to keep a houseplant thriving (although it’s not *just* the lighting & humidity challenges that industrial producers have to cope with). “Indoor farming looks like it could be the answer to feeding a hot and hungry planet. It’s not that easy”:

… Food and agriculture innovation have sucked up remarkable amounts of investor capital in recent years and could become a $700 billion market by 2030, according to a Union Bank of Switzerland report.

Millions are being invested globally in indoor urban farms because of their promise to produce more food with less impact, with two dozen large-scale projects launching in Dubai, Israel, the Netherlands and other countries.

Still, the next big thing may be stymied in the United States by high start-up costs, high urban rents and lack of a safety net in a food system that is highly dependent on subsidies and bailouts for a few commodity crops. (An American Farm Bureau Federation report last month found that almost 40 percent of conventional farm income in 2019 will be provided by trade bailouts, disaster insurance, the farm bill and insurance indemnities.)

And for indoor urban farms, especially those that rely solely on artificial light, there’s another concern: lightbulbs.

In September, the Trump administration announced it would roll back Obama-era energy efficiency standards that would have effectively phased out the standard pear-shaped incandescent variety. The step is expected to slow the demand for LED bulbs, which last longer and use less electricity than many other types but are more expensive…

Indoor vertical farming became economically viable when LEDs became plentiful, cheap and efficient. Before that, indoor growing lights produced enormous amounts of heat — heat mapping was frequently how police identified illegal marijuana growing houses — and thus cooling costs and electricity bills were astronomical… Indoor urban farmers, especially those farming vertically, have built their profitability models on projections that LEDs will continue to get exponentially brighter and less expensive, will run cooler and will become more efficient…

Efficient bulbs are not the only challenge to indoor urban agriculture, Fain says. To take a small indoor farm and make it a big one requires innovations in robotics and artificial intelligence. There, too, prices have come down substantially for sensors, processing and data storage. Altogether, these make indoor farming viable but not easy…

And because profitability is so elusive, some of the early promises of indoor agriculture are slow to be realized. Steep start-up costs mean farmers must grow crops that generate major cash: specialty items, such as flowers, or crops that have quick growth cycles, such as leafy greens. The five main indoor crops are leafy greens, microgreens, herbs, flowers and tomatoes, items that are a pull for those of high socioeconomic status but aren’t go-to products for low-income people…

For Puri, Fain and others, the necessity to succeed with indoor urban agriculture is self-evident. More than 95 percent of head lettuce in the United States comes from two drought-prone states, California and Arizona, and according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, traditional agriculture accounts for 80 percent of the country’s water consumption, as high as 90 percent in many Western states.

In 2018 alone, three food-borne illness outbreaks on traditional romaine farms killed six people, hospitalized 128 and infected 300, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The safety challenges of outdoor farming are becoming more acute with climate change and unexpected shifts in pests and bird migrations…

Reader Interactions

142Comments

  2. 2.

    Viva BrisVegas

    These will be worthwhile skills when we all move to Mars after crapping all over the Earth.

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    I read an indepth article of some of the innovations they are developing in the Netherlands, truly amazing shit. Damned if I can remember where I read it. If I can rattle my cage enough to shake it out I’ll pass it along. Don’t hold your breath.

  10. 10.

    WereBear

    Heads up, because of the holiday, I’m scheduled for a cat guest post on Tuesday. Kittens approaching teenhood. Hang on and keep the dangling stuff inside the vehicle.

  11. 11.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I’m about halfway across the Atlantic, crossing from Dakar, Senegal to Recife, Brazil. I wasn’t sure what the temperatures would be like on the water but it’s hot and humid. This is the third of four straight days at sea. I’m doing a lot of reading and going to a few talks. The ship has resident historians, who talk about our itinerary. Yesterday, I went to a talk about Columbus. And another historian gave a talk about the Bayeux tapestry, relevant because the Normans descended from Vikings.

    There’s also a couple of resident astronomers. I went to a talk about the Voyager programs with lots of good pics.

    The food is great, and I believe I said my doctor said I should gain some weight, so it’s like having a license to kill.

  19. 19.

    satby

    @mrmoshpotato: Good morning!

    @OzarkHillbilly: ?

    @JPL: Update on yesterday’s visit to San Antonio speculation: got a tip on a good dog sitter and a good last minute round trip price, so took a leap of faith and booked the flights. Now hoping the rest comes together, but pretty sure it will.

  20. 20.

    NotMax

    Anyone else experience a period of receiving a 524 error (server timeout) on the site a few hours ago? Have a screenshot of the time stamped error page if it might be of use to WaterGirl.

  21. 21.

    Winston Churchitler

    The indoor grow tech is also innovating and expanding due to the increase in individual cannabis grows popping up across the US. Everyday there’s someone buying the new quantum board lights (better LED tech) and a DWC hydro set-up now that it’s easy to get online, including the seeds. Check the reddit microgrowery section, it’s filled with 1st time indoor growers now that legalization has expanded. Thats alot of $$ for De Gavita (Monsanto) or General Hydropnics (also now bought up by Monsanto).

  29. 29.

    MattF

    There’s an extraordinary statistic tucked into a book review by WaPo reporter David Fahrenthold. In his battles with just about everybody, Donald Trump has initiated 3500 lawsuits. 3500!! That’s about 100 a year, over his adult life. Suing people is clearly a fundamental element in how he deals with the world. He deals constantly with lawyers.

     

    If anyone imagines that Trump’s response to the impeachment process is a spur-of-the-moment improvisation, guess again.

  35. 35.

    satby

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: will you be doing Thanksgiving on board? That should be wonderful.

     

    I just looked up different ways to sous vide a turkey. Most say to dismember it, but Williams -Sonoma has a whole bird recipe. Need to go buy a empty five gallon bucket from Lowes…

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @satby:

      You need a food grade 5 gal bucket. I get mine from the local farm supply. I don’t think Lowes has them, but I could be wrong.

  38. 38.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Raven:

      I’m jealous. Just as we hit peak color we had a hard freeze (18) that killed the color and knocked half the leaves off.

  43. 43.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @WereBear:   If one is trying for a moister bird, a dry rub is the wrong way to go. The salt draws moisture out.

    My own brine recipe has salt, sugar, celery, onion, carrots, thyme, black pepper corns and a touch of fennel. It’s for turkey but I’m not too fond of that bird so I use it for my roasted chicken. Too damn good. Sometimes after brining I will strain out the veggies and herbs and mix a portion of them with stuffing.

  48. 48.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @rikyrah:

    We’re on the Viking Jupiter. It’s 11:15 am here. We just crossed the Equator. They had a ceremony at the pool where they dunked everyone who hadn’t crossed before, starting with crew members. We crossed a number of years ago when we went up the Amazon, so I watched and laughed.

  51. 51.

    Steeplejack

    I went to see Jojo Rabbit yesterday. Pretty good, recommended for the “see it in the theater” crowd. The trailer is a bit misleading—makes it seem like more of a laff riot than it is. It’s more like “Wes Anderson took a dark turn.”

    Good acting all around, including Scarlett Johansson and Sam Rockwell. The writer/director, Taika Waititi (who plays Hitler in the movie), previously directed Thor: Ragnarok and also did What We Do in the Shadows and (oddball favorite) Eagle vs. Shark.

  52. 52.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: I have to check, it was a frozen bird and a lot of them come pre-brined. Super deal on it, 36¢/ lb, so I got a 20# bird for just over $6. I figure I better sous vide it so that it tastes ok ?

    @rikyrah: Good morning rikyrah ?

  57. 57.

    debbie

    @Raven:

     

    Beautiful! There are still a lot of leaves on trees around here. They turned brown but haven’t fallen yet, despite plenty of wind.

  58. 58.

    ThresherK

    @Steeplejack: Hmm. As someone who knows more about Heil Honey, I’m Home than absolutely necessary, Jojo Rabbit interests me. I think we’ll see it when it comes to our fancy college cinema.

  60. 60.

    Elizabelle

    @Steeplejack:   Yeah, I liked JoJo Rabbit a lot.  I thought Taika Waititi handled some difficult material very well.

     

    It was filmed in the Czech Republic.

  62. 62.

    Immanentize

    In this thread formerly know as the Garden Thread, I am checking in to report on my Tomatana/Banomato project. As you may (or may not) recall, I had over forty really niced sized Rutgers tomatoes on the vine as the first real freeze was approaching. Only about 10 of those had any blush whatsoever. The great were green to very green.

    So, I polled the pack and Satby (of course) suggested I put the green ones in a box with bananas and tape it shut. I did so with 32 tomatoes and four young bananas — waited two weeks AND (drumroll….)

    Half were pink all about, another half dozen were blushing and ten or so are still green. I put the last two groups back into the box with the bananas (they were ripe but not black) and will wait another week. Complete Success!!!

  63. 63.

    Ken

    @debbie: 

    There are still a lot of leaves on trees around here. They turned brown but haven’t fallen yet

    Same here. I’m kind of worried that some of those trees might not come back in the spring.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    There’s a huge indoor growing operation in NW Ohio. It’s a Canadian company – NatureFresh. Peter Quiring is the owner/CEO. “Quiring” is know as a Mennonite last name locally and the Ohio people who work there say the Canadian managers are mostly Mennonites. I say that because this is the second large company in the area that is known as Mennonite- the other is a furniture facility. There are a lot of Mennonites (or descendants) in this area and they own a lot- they are all either construction companies or agriculture companies.

    There’s been some controversy around the company around two issues- they got a ten year tax abatement (which people resent) and they bring in a lot of HB visa workers from Mexico during their busy season (winter months). The furniture company has been around longer and they also brought in workers over years and years, leading (over decades) to the town where they’re located (now) having a substantial Mexican-American population. It’s a great little town. Neat as a pin and with one of the best school districts in the area.

    I toured the facility with the school and it’s pretty cool. They grow vertically so the tomato plants just go on and on- looooong vines.

  66. 66.

    Immanentize

     

    @OzarkHillbilly: I agree on the brining. Especially with some nice herbs and I also put juniper berries in the mix.  And, I cook the Turkey upside down for half the time so the juices go into the breast not into the pan.

    After last Thanksgiving, the Immp told me he really doesn’t like turkey.  OK then!  This year I am making Peking Duck.  Yum.

  70. 70.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: They are great!  Some are not so wee and need a repotting (the Immp planted some in a shallow dish pot).  I am especially liking “Donkey Tail/String of Pearls” variety.

  74. 74.

    Kay

    @debbie:

     

    They mitigated some of the resentment by making an annual “donation” to the school district voluntarily and it equals just about the share the schools would have gotten. The controversy over the workers from Mexico is, IMO, due to the current political climate because the furniture company in that same county has been in business for 80 years and they always brought in Mexican workers and no one made a fuss. I don’t think they out it there because of the tax abatement. I think they put it there because there is a close connection between Canadian Mennonites and Ohio Mennonites and, also, more importantly, it’s located 3 miles from an interstate in the middle of a huge, multi-state midwest market. They would have put it there without the tax abatement.

    Now they have these town council meetings where everyone is screaming at one another. NatureFresh wanted to build housing at the facility for the workers and people went berserk.

  77. 77.

    Immanentize

    Indulging the inner child (also slightly OCD) and heading to the twice a year model train show at the Shriner’s Auditorium.  What can be better? A huge exhibit hall filled with trains of all scales PLUS men wearing Fezzes (Fez?)

  78. 78.

    chopper

    @satby:

     

    i have a pretty good system for turkey which doesn’t take a ton of time. had to figure it out in a crappy kitchen at an airbnb in chicago a pretty far walk from a grocery store.

     

    spatchcock the bird and salt it and let it sit in the fridge for a few days if you can. then, on cooking day, make some compound butter and tuck it under the skin over the breasts and legs. then, take some more compound butter and add some baking powder to it (enhances browning) and rub it all over the bird. put it on a rack over a sheet pan loaded up with veggies – carrot/onion/celery if you want to use the drippings for gravy, or potatoes etc. if you want to mash them later.

     

    since the bird is butterflied it cooks in half the time and doesn’t take up the whole damn oven, and the breast and leg meat is about the same thickness so the breast is less likely to overcook. you cook it at high temp, like 400 or so, and in the better part of 1.5-2 hrs you’re done. also, the baking powder butter rub makes the skin super crunchy and crackly like it was deep fried. the bed of veggies helps keep the underside from drying out.

  80. 80.

    germy

    No turkey this year for Thanksgiving.  My wife has made pepperpot.  It takes several days to cook.  The second day, she skims off all the fat from the top.  The whole house smells like pepperpot, which is heaven for me.

     

    A quick note on our cat:  She’s a Good Girl.  Affectionate, loving.  Always watching us intently.  Purrs on my lap and she gives my wife gentle head bumps.

     

    Hard to believe someone abandoned this cat at a shelter ten years ago.  She’s a beautiful, sweet fur girl.

     

    We’re empty nesters.  Our children grew up and moved out.  Can you all tell by the way I write about our cat?

     

    My wife has turned our living room and kitchen into an indoor farm.  Potted tomato plants, wiri wiri pepper, callaloo (which is growing like a tree!) basil, etc.    There’s a hydroponic supply store a few miles from us, and my wife bought grow lights. She must be the only customer of theirs who actually grows tomatoes.  They wink at her in the store and she has no idea what they mean.

     

    The new lights are LED; cooler than our old lights.

  81. 81.

    Raven

    @debbie: We’re headed back to the beach in the morning so it will be interesting to see what’s up through south Georgia into the panhandle.

  82. 82.

    germy

    Tastiest Thanksgiving I ever had was when my wife said to hell with turkey and instead brought home two Cornish game hens.  She made stuffing and a bunch of side dishes.

     

    I’m a turkey fan, though.  I like the drumsticks and the rest of it.  I might be the only person who really loves Thanksgiving food.  The only thing I dislike is carving.

     

    Here’s Robert Benchly carving a turkey:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Ep7oG1uMc

  83. 83.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Finally remembered, National Geographic was where I read the article on what’s happening with indoor farming in the Netherlands. I tried twice to open it and twice it locked up my computer. If you google it, it should come up I would think.

  86. 86.

    raven

    @debbie: From Athens to Albany through Colquitt to Marianna and then Seagrove. If there are colors that will be it because it’s mostly flat as a pancake.

  87. 87.

    WaterGirl

    @WereBear: I added your upcoming Guest Post to Balloon Juice News (in the sidebar).  I’m not sure if anyone is checking that yet, but it has your post as well as some Pet Adoption news.

  88. 88.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie:

      Nice try at forcing me to Ctrl-Alt-Delete a 3rd time in one morning, but I was ready for it. As soon as I saw the header in the tab I closed it.

    Nyah nah nyah na nah

  89. 89.

    Baud

    Michael Bloomberg plans to officially get into the 2020 Democratic presidential race imminently, a source close to the former New York mayor told CNN

  90. 90.

    germy

    I’m disgusted by the idea that Michael Bloomberg or any billionaire thinks they can circumvent the political process and spend tens of millions of dollars to buy elections.

    If you can’t build grassroots support for your candidacy, you have no business running for president. https://t.co/jyIBVXUToj

    — Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) November 22, 2019

  91. 91.

    Baud

    We don’t foreclose the possibility of more depositions, more hearings. We are in the process of getting more documents all the time. So that investigative work is being done,” Schiff said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

     

    “What we’re not going to do is wait months and months while the administration plays a game of rope-a-dope in an effort to try to stall. We’re not willing to go down that road,” Schiff said.

  93. 93.

    chopper

    @debbie:

     

    The Amazon reviews were very mixed (arriving dead, etc.)

    this is why amazon’s mail order bride service hasn’t got out of beta yet.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    @germy:

     

    This was Trump’s line too.

     

    Bloomberg’s team insists that his wealth allows him to be more responsive to the concerns of everyday people because he isn’t beholden to special interests. Wolfson said Bloomberg would work for only $1 a year as president, just as he did when he was New York City mayor for more than a decade.

  100. 100.

    germy

    Trump seriously looks like he has no idea what’s going on around him.

    A bunch of dudes in the White House yelling at Mitt Romney about his vaping misconceptions, while the President of the United States sits by pic.twitter.com/bkE7cbLEVG— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) November 22, 2019

    this is kind of how we deserve to spend our last generation as an earth spanning empire. just a man with room temperature dog shit for a brain watching his religious weirdo frenemy talk about vape flavors https://t.co/UZSKVJMKWD

    — looking for CoD teammates on Raya (@ByYourLogic) November 22, 2019

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:   From Josh Marshall: Read This

    I read through this a number of times before deciding to publish it. But I strongly, strongly recommend it to you. The author of the email is a former federal prosecutor. When I first read it I confess I found it all a bit loopy or improbable. But as I thought about it and read it again I eventually found it quite compelling. Whether this is actually the House strategy I don’t know. But I think the author is correct about the dynamics involved.

    I should add that I don’t think this relies on any great civic virtue on Justice Roberts’ part. As I read it, if he wants to shut the whole thing down he’s entirely capable of doing that through the conventional appellate process ending up at the Supreme Court. This just means ruling on these decisions quickly and in the spotlight.

    A majority of the Senate can also overrule his rulings. But that means owning overruling a Chief Justice strongly identified as a conservative and a Republican.

    I’m a former federal corruption AUSA and also a former DOJ attorney. Let me tell you why I think the House isn’t going to court over the failure of Bolton, Pompeo, etc. to appear for testimony.

    If the House were to go to the District Court, any ruling would eventually be appealed to the Supreme Court. The earliest any decision would come is next spring or early summer.

    If the House impeaches the president, the impeachment will be conducted no later than January, and occur under the Senate’s impeachment rules.

    The rules provide that the House managers can issue subpoenas to anyone, presumably including Bolton and Mulvaney. A senator could object that the testimony is irrelevant or covered by privilege. Rule VII provides that a ruling on such questions will usually be made by the Presiding Officer – the Chief Justice, unless he refers the decision to the full Senate. The Chief Justice would likely decide, in the first instance, claims of executive privilege or attorney-client privilege. He would also likely decide questions such as the crime/fraud exception and the co-conspirator exception to the hearsay rule, as well as questions of waiver of any privilege. Finally, he would rule on subpoenas for the production of documents………………..

    Very much worth the very little time to read the rest. Not gospel, not fantasy, just a viable scenario with a favorable end.

    And by favorable end, I don’t mean removal from office via impeachment, I mean an electoral stomping in most if not all the purple areas.

  102. 102.

    debbie

    @Baud:

     

    I saw a Tom Styer ad last night during SNL. Ninety-nine percent of it was slamming Trump, the rest was him saying he was better than the other candidates because he could best address Trump as a fraud.

  105. 105.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie:   Well, hopefully you have helped all the others who are interested in reading it, even if you couldn’t help the one guy here who has already read it and still has the hard copy. ;-)

     

    ETA the funny thing was my computer insisted it was Ballon Juice that locked it up with the bad script the first time. I didn’t buy that.

  107. 107.

    debbie

    @OzarkHillbilly:

     

    This is why I think the House should instead issue Articles of Censure. List out all the crimes, like in the Declaration of Independence, and then let people to decide whether or not to support Trump’s reelection.

  110. 110.

    StringOnAStick

    @germy: I inherited a 3 level grow stand (she got it from Gardeners Supply and I recall that it was like $800 new so it was top of the line at the time).  It uses fluorescent lights but I’m wondering if that can be converted to LED?  I guess I could take one of the fixtures to a hydroponics store.  There were a huge number of those when pot was first legalized here but I noticed the big chain seems to have gone out of business.  o

     

    I’ll have to set it up in the basement because of the 2 year old crazy cats and maybe the heat from fluorescent lights is a good thing?  I need to se t the whole thing up and learn how to use it.  I think it could grow all our greens for us and I want to start a bunch of native perennials for a friend’s empty yard.

  111. 111.

    germy

    @StringOnAStick:   I’m not sure if the fixture can convert to taking LEDs.

     

    Our cat is not allowed unsupervised in our kitchen or living room.  We’re lucky to have doors to both, so when we go to sleep at night she has access to our room and downstairs where her litterbox and food dish reside.

     

    I’m not sure if the heat from fluorescent is beneficial.  Maybe.  I like the cooler-burning LEDs because my utility bill is already too high.

  114. 114.

    StringOnAStick

    @germy: We don’t let the cats in the basement, one of them is a chewer and all chewable things must be covered (electrical cords) or tucked in or in a drawer (sheets, blankets, clothes); all closet doors must remain closed at all times.  We’re hoping she grows out of it.

     

    I’ve seen these LED tubes that replace fluorescent ones directly, just remove the ballast.  I’m wondering if that sort of thing g is available in the right spectrum for growing plants.  Looks like I need to do some research

  115. 115.

    Steeplejack

    @Elizabelle:
    Yeah, Czechia (officially okay to call it that now) stands in for a lot of older Europe. The great French series Maigret with Bruno Cremer uses Prague circa 1990s to stand in for Paris in the ’50s. I think the recent Rowan Atkinson Maigret moved on to Budapest. Oops, off on a tangent.

  118. 118.

    Another Scott

    @StringOnAStick: There are direct-replacement LED bulbs that just plug into standard fluorescent fixtures.  You don’t have to change ballasts, etc.  Roughly $20 a bulb at Amazon a few years ago, probably cheaper now.

     

    Dunno how appropriate they are for grow lights (the LED spectrum is different from the fluorescent spectrum).

     

    HTH.

     

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  119. 119.

    Steeplejack

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    I am thinking of doing a standing rib roast for Thanksgiving. My brother (doctor) is on call, so he can’t go to Rehoboth Beach with the family, so it will be just the two of us. The low-stress Food Wishes recipe looks pretty good.

  122. 122.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    Have tried Chef John’s high heat then turn everything off and walk away method and it performed beautifully.

    Gonna be leg o’ lamb chez NotMax for Turkey Day this year.

  123. 123.

    NotMax

    @WaterGirl

    If it’s of any further aid, first encountered it immediately after clicking Post Comment for this one time stamped 1:05 a.m. blog time. Did not take a screenshot of that initial encounter.

  124. 124.

    Steeplejack

    @NotMax:
    Yeah, that’s the one. Glad to hear you’ve vetted it.

    I’m gonna avoid the weekend crush and go out to an organic butcher’s in McLean tomorrow to see what’s what.

  126. 126.

    J R in WV

    @Immanentize:

     

    Half were pink all about, another half dozen were blushing and ten or so are still green

    Have you not ever heard about fried green tomatoes?

     

    Slice hard green tomatoes, dip in milk and egg mixture, slather with bread crumbs, fry quick and hot until brown, ummm good. I found it hard to believe, but delicious!

  127. 127.

    TomatoQueen

    I wish one of you would do your turkey the Jacques Pepin way this time; it is a steam-powered upside down and burnish with a glaze kinda thing. Receipt is in FTFNYT.

     

    I have grown tomatoes from seed starting with fluorescent lights, on an old fixture that wanted weirdly-sized replacement bulbs and had a ballast made of I swear cast iron. The plants were a little too happy and got leggy, but they all grew and produced fruit. No heat issues at all.

     

    Oh yeah, that protest. Even the players got involved. And the protest delayed the second half by 40 minutes,  at a stadium WITHOUT lights (either the class of 1954 forgot when they did the extreeeeemely expensive revamp, or they remembered that the Bowl is in a residential neighborhood). And in the end, who won, aside from the environment? Why that’ll be Yale. Double overtime. 50-43. Sharing the league title with those fucking animals D___tm__th, but still. BULLDOG.

  129. 129.

    NotMax

    @TomatoQueen

    When it comes to traditional oven roasting of a turkey am more than willing to shell out the extra spondoolicks to get a (pre-brined) kosher bird if I can find one, always a toss-up here. Have never had anything less than a moist, tender outcome, even once after falling into an ‘I’ll just rest my eyes for a minute’ nap and waking up an hour after what should have been take it out of the oven time.

  130. 130.

    Steeplejack

    @NotMax:
    Har. It’s trendy, affluent McLean, so poetic license. And “Organic” is in the name! The place gets great reviews, and I haven’t been there before, so it will be an exploratory mission.

  132. 132.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    Too many people (not you, not I) are unaware that the term organic is meaningless window dressing – that is, conforms to no universal culinary description or definition as applied to sales, labeling or contents. Anyone can use it with impunity (yes, have seen bottles labeled “organic water”).

    Heck, technically speaking, can’t get much more organic than a bag of coal! :)

  135. 135.

    J R in WV

    A couple of years ago when we visited Denver for a few days, we went to a hotel out near the new airport for a gem show out there. Driving back towards town on the interstate, we were stopped in traffic in the industrial area north of town. I rolled the windows down on the rental as it was a beautiful fall day in September.

     

    We were between giant old warehouses, and I instantly noticed a distinct cannabis growing sort of aroma wafting across the interstate, not that I have personally ever witnessed anything like that in my 70 years of being around this round ball~!!!

     

    Then we saw that the warehouses’ roofs were covered with giant HVAC units, hundreds of them. So must assume indoor agriculture was well in hand in Colorado, downtown Denver area. Acres of industrial wasteland, repurposed for brand new function in today’s America!

     

    ;-)

     

    Don’t know what the cost/benefit ratio would be on Lettuce or Radishes, tho, A/C is expensive!! Can you even get a corn harvester inside a warehouse?

  138. 138.

    Miss Bianca

    @ThresherK: OMG, you are only the second person I’ve ever encountered who seems to know about “Heil, Honey, I’m Home!” A fellow grad student swore that she’d seen it in GB, but I could scarcely believe it, and then I never, ever, saw any references to it (this was back in the 90s), so it was easy to kid myself that there was *no way* it could ever have existed!

  139. 139.

    Mart

    LED bulbs, which last longer and use less electricity than many other types but are more expensive…

    I keep reading this. Do these people shop? LED bulbs can easily be found at Walmart, 4 for $2.88, or $3.88. Incandescent 12 for $15.00. And they never specify LED’s quickly pay for themselves by burning 1/6th of the power and lasting at least three times longer.

  141. 141.

    Another Scott

    @J R in WV:

    Colorado.gov:

    Growing cannabis emits highly reactive volatile organic compounds (VOCs). Marijuana Infused Product (MIP) facilities also emit VOCs from solvent extraction processes.

    Both types of VOCs from the cannabis industry contribute to ozone formation in Denver’s ozone nonattainment area. We have recommended best management practices for both grow and MIP facilities to reduce their air quality impacts.

    Dunno if the equipment on the roof that you saw was related to trying to mitigate that pollution.

    TANSTAAFL

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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