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You are here: Home / Politics / Media / It’s Disinformation, Stupid!

It’s Disinformation, Stupid!

by TaMara|  December 26, 201912:00 pm| 113 Comments

This post is in: Media, Open Threads, Politics, Blatant Liars and the Lies They Tell

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To continue Betty’s theme.

This article this morning  by Jay Rosen was a scathing rebuke of Chuck Todd and the inside-the-beltway media crap:

‘Round midnight on Christmas eve, Rolling Stone posted a short interview with Chuck Todd, host of “the longest running show on television,” NBC’s Meet the Press. 

Its contents were explosive, embarrassing, enraging, and just plain weird. 

Three years after Kellyanne Conway introduced the doctrine of “alternative facts” on his own program, a light went on for Chuck Todd. Republican strategy, he now realized, was to make stuff up, spread it on social media, repeat it in your answers to journalists — even when you know it’s a lie with crumbs of truth mixed in — and then convert whatever controversy arises into go-get-em points with the base, while pocketing for the party a juicy dividend: additional mistrust of the news media to help insulate President Trump among loyalists when his increasingly brazen actions are reported as news.

I honestly didn’t even know what to highlight for you. It’s all damning. Click here to read the entire piece at PressThink.org

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Previous Post: «Thursday Morning Open Thread It’s the corruption, stupid!
Next Post: More On Todd And Rosen Auto Draft 1»

Reader Interactions

113Comments

  1. 1.

    Yarrow

    December 26, 2019 at 12:09 pm

    Fuck Chuck Todd. That being said, if he wants to start talking about disinformation, I’m all for it. It’s far past time for Americans to be better informed about disinformation and how it’s weaponized against us.

  2. 2.

    cope

    December 26, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    Chuck Todd is “Shocked.  Shocked, I tell you.”

  3. 3.

    JMG

    December 26, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    I may have said this on this site before, but Chuck Todd only makes sense if you think of him not as a journalist, but as an unregistered lobbyist for Comcast Corp., handing out airtime instead of campaign contributions.

  4. 4.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 12:15 pm

    Chuck Todd’s entire brand is based on the claim that he understands politics. Since 2007 he has been NBC’s political director, which means he has influence over all coverage. He is literally the in-house expert on the subject. You don’t get to claim you are naive about politics when you have these kinds of positions. It would be like a chief risk officer saying, “I didn’t understand the gamble we were taking.” Well, that’s your job.

    When I watched the impeachment hearings on NBC, they featured Todd with some other experts.  His analysis was so shallow, but he was aggressive enough to constantly interrupt and speak over the other panelists.

    It occurred to me that if someone didn’t know who Todd was, they’d assume he was a fidgety random citizen pulled off the street for an amateur perspective.

  5. 5.

    wvng

    December 26, 2019 at 12:19 pm

    @JMG: Not just Todd but really almost all of msm reporting.  In a variation of the same clueless theme, Jon Stewart described this pattern long before Trump became a political actor. He described it using examples of how Fox spreads misinformation using its opinion hosts as “some people are saying” sources for “news” stories that republicans would then use on the stump and in interviews. I’m sure the Balloon Juice community remembers when, in 2009, President Obama tried to get the msm to acknowledge that Fox was serving as a propaganda arm of the republican party and the media responded by circling the wagons around Fox.  It was disinformation then too.

    The only thing new here is the extremity of Trump’s behavior.

  6. 6.

    painedumonde

    December 26, 2019 at 12:20 pm

    @cope: Vos gains, Monsieur.

  7. 7.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 26, 2019 at 12:21 pm

    Rosen is great. Looking forward to reading this.

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    December 26, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    About a year ago, Todd published a piece in The Atlantic talking about the Wingnut Wurlitzer (Fox, Limbaugh, etc.) and how it had lured MSM figures like himself into the “false equivalency” trap. Then he resumed dealing in false equivalencies as if he’d never admitted his doing so degraded American journalism. He’s at it again, I see.

  9. 9.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    December 26, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    Waiting  for Driftglass’ take on all this, it should be amusing.

    As for Chuck Todd, unless he starts burning anonymous “sources”, and starts actually treating who repeatedly lie to his face on his show with ejection, banning, and curated specials showing how bad the republican hacks lie to the media for the rest of his life he’s still dead to me.  No forgiveness without serious penance, and discovering that the republican party is full of republicans ain’t going to cut it.

  10. 10.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 12:30 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Here’s his initial impressions:

    It was the word he used for his own behavior. It would not be mine.

    — Jay Rosen (@jayrosen_nyu) December 25, 2019

    Asymmetry between the major parties fries the circuits of the mainstream press, and it fried his. https://t.co/EMM273IwpY

    — Jay Rosen (@jayrosen_nyu) December 25, 2019

    Two more fun facts. 1.) Poynter Institute, a professional development and ethics center for journalists, recently named Chuck Todd "media personality of the year." https://t.co/jkbQRuGkBn 2.) The executive producer of MTP was my college roommate. We have not spoken in a while.

    — Jay Rosen (@jayrosen_nyu) December 25, 2019

    It's bad.

    — Jay Rosen (@jayrosen_nyu) December 25, 2019

    No, I don't buy it, and would not use that term. But it's significant that he does, and did.

    — Jay Rosen (@jayrosen_nyu) December 25, 2019

  11. 11.

    Mike J

    December 26, 2019 at 12:30 pm

    Cheryl pointed out on her twitter feed that in the interview, Todd refers to misinformation over and over again, and never once to disinformation.

    Also note that Todd said he was doing this special show because of what he saw on social media, not because of broadcast.

  12. 12.

    Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)

    December 26, 2019 at 12:36 pm

    Paul Krugman was making a similar point about the Bush campaign in 2000 — they don’t spin, they flat-out lie.  The news media has had 20 years to come to terms with this, and they chose not to because of access and nicknames and tire swings and whatever else made them feel as if the cool kids at school liked them.  If any of them are waking up now, it’s just because Trump has made things difficult and sometimes dangerous for them personally. 

  13. 13.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 26, 2019 at 12:38 pm

    @Mike J: According to wikipedia, all disinformation is misinformation…

    /mindlessPedantry

  14. 14.

    laura

    December 26, 2019 at 12:39 pm

    So much infotainment! It is killing our democracy and it’s making metric shit-tons of money for the Andy Lacks and Jeff Zuckers and that Murdock filth. And so even if Chuckles lets slip a wee bit of truth well off the beaten track of MTP, he’ll be warned and chastened and go back to disinforming viewers for his 30 pieces of silver.

  15. 15.

    piratedan

    December 26, 2019 at 12:42 pm

    Maybe Mr. Todd could go into plumbing, because shit certainly seems to flow thru him….

  16. 16.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 12:42 pm

    Chuck Todd also thought his bangs looked cute on TV.

    — Caissie St.Onge (@Caissie) December 26, 2019

  17. 17.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 26, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    @Mike J: Todd is the walking embodiment of Lenin’s term “useful idiot.”

  18. 18.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 12:44 pm

    Chuck Todd confusing a Maya Angelou quote for a Toni Morrison quote is the best possible metaphor for Chuck Todd that one could come up with.

    — Soledad O'Brien (@soledadobrien) December 25, 2019

  19. 19.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 26, 2019 at 12:44 pm

    Chuck Todd clutches embers from a fire pit and severely burns his hand. “I was naive,” he tells the paramedic. “You’ll see, the next fire won't be that hot."

    — Quinn Sutherland (@ReelQuinn) December 26, 2019

  20. 20.

    Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)

    December 26, 2019 at 12:44 pm

    Tried to edit to add this — not sure what happened.  But anyway:  During Scooter Libby’s trial it came out that Cheney’s office thought Meet the Press would be a good outlet to push the Iraq war because Tim Russert wouldn’t challenge them.  So Chuck Todd’s blindness isn’t anything unusual for MTP.

    Not saying anything people here don’t already know, obviously, but still felt like saying it because damn these people are useless.

  21. 21.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 12:45 pm

    Chuck Todd is an unqualified mediocre WM who’s failed upward in life. We all suffer for it while he acts “surprised”. Too many Chuck Todd’s in the media, government, the judiciary and the police force. 2020 is time we break the fever of mediocrity. https://t.co/V4qdDbl7ke

    — Kurt Nice (@KurtNiceHHL) December 25, 2019

  22. 22.

    sukabi

    December 26, 2019 at 12:47 pm

    Todd said he was doing this special show because of what he saw on social media, not because of broadcast.

    So the interview and the “special” are just his / managements way of creating “buzz” and “staying relevant”. It’s an end of year “fresh start” for the new year that won’t change a thing in how his show is run, he’ll just point to the special endlessly over the next 6 months and say “we point out misinformation at every turn” while continuing to invite known liars on to lie without nary a blink or a fact check.

  23. 23.

    AnonPhenom

    December 26, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    The disinformation is just another manifestation of the same corruption.

    When news centers were turned into profit centers corruption took root.

    The same corruption that saw our institutions for policy and regulations as low hanging fruit when the ‘decision makers’ became the people with access to deep pockets.

    It’s Our Corruption. And all it took for us to see it was for one Russian billionaire (who has access to nuclear bombs) and a handful of his kleptocratic friends to weaponize it and turn it against us.

    But we created it. It’s ours.

  24. 24.

    Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.

    December 26, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    This is correct. The crucial functions of journalism are to 1) fact check and 2) place facts (or “alternative facts”) in context so their significance can be understood.

     

    What NYT and many others have done lately is to invert 2) into “this person/ institution is important,” and invert 1) into “let’s document what they say.” It’s stenography of the rich and powerful, with access as the selling point. They’ve gone from “The Paper of Record” to “Vanity Fair Daily.”

  25. 25.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    He's literally been part of the disinformation. A conservative friend once insisted that "Hillary is just as hateful as Trump. Chuck Todd said so!"

    I had to Google it. Sure enough, on two separate occasions he declared that Hillary and Trump were "in a race to the bottom."

    — (((VirginiaJeff))) (@VirginiaJeff3) December 25, 2019

  26. 26.

    Fleeting Expletive

    December 26, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    Well, I just subscribed to the Washington Post.  This shit’s just too damn important for me not to, and 30 bucks for a year actually does work on a social security retirement.  The Jay Rosen piece is so, so accurate an assessment of Chuck and all his ilk.  They never listen.

    And, to be absolutely petty, he is an ugly critter and whoever told him the little beardie thing would look good…hell, maybe they were right, come to think of it.  He has a tell, though.  His lower lip sort of does a swan dive when he starts to utter some “challenge” question.  Also he blinks.  I don’t even play poker, but it isn’t that hard and never has been to tell when people lie. People paid to ask questions should know how.

  27. 27.

    Betty Cracker

    December 26, 2019 at 12:49 pm

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA): Agreed. MTP was hot garbage long before Todd came along.

  28. 28.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    He graduated from Miami Killian Senior High School in Kendall, an unincorporated suburban community in greater Miami. Todd attended George Washington University from 1990 to 1994. He declared a major in political science and a minor in music, but never graduated.

  29. 29.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    Chuck Todd only completed HS.
    Never completed undergraduate degree in journalism. Nope.
    And yet his student internship transitioned directly into actual paid work. So, with only a HS diploma he gets to be on tv & got to ruin @MTP.
    I resent how not up for the job he gets to be. https://t.co/nCaSYyobuY

    — Artemis Green (@ArtemisionGreen) December 26, 2019

  30. 30.

    Fair Economist

    December 26, 2019 at 12:53 pm

    Contra Kasparov, I don’t find it intellectually exhausting to deal with their propaganda. It’s all nonsense so I don’t pay attention to any of it. Treat it like a crazy person raving on the street because that’s the level of meaning.

  31. 31.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 12:54 pm

    @germy: Yes, let’s put the guy who couldn’t make it through the undergrad polisci core at GWU in charge of politics news for a major broadcast network. What could possibly go wrong?

  32. 32.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 26, 2019 at 12:57 pm

    I can’t remember where it was that Norm Ornstein recently (within the last year, or five– aging and trump have skewed my sense of time) talked about the Beltway’s reaction to his and Thomas Mann’s initial op/ed in 2012, the precursor to their book “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks”, about asymetric polarization and, basically, the Republicans being worse. It was the most read piece in the history of the Washington Post website, which crashed several times because of all the people reading it. Ornstein and Mann waited for the phone to ring to be invited on Sunday shows. It did not. Ornstein at some point brought it up with Bob Schieffer, then still soporifically hosting Face the Nation, who was both confused and offended by the notion that Both Sides Are Equally To Blame could be questioned.

    This from Media Matters describes the original op/ed and subsequent TV blackout, but I can’t find the piece where Ornstein talked about his personal interaction from Schieffer, which I am fairly certain is a thing that happened and that I read or heard on a podcast or something. But I am tired.

  33. 33.

    hells littlest angel

    December 26, 2019 at 12:59 pm

    I may be … uh, naive … to think that this upcoming MTP story could become a turning point in the way the press handles Republican propaganda and disinformation, but I think dismissing it out of hand and aforehand is conceding to hopelessness and despair — you know, that thing Democrats do too often and should never do at all. I don’t like Chuck Todd much, but he’s not Grima Fucking Wormtongue, either.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    December 26, 2019 at 1:02 pm

    When Chuck Todd shows you who he is, believe him.

    ——- Abraham Lincoln

  35. 35.

    Fair Economist

    December 26, 2019 at 1:03 pm

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA):

     

    The news media has had 20 years to come to terms with this, and they chose not to because of access and nicknames and tire swings and whatever else made them feel as if the cool kids at school liked them.

    The problem is not the reporters, it’s the owners and editors. There are plenty of reporters who see through this, they just don’t get jobs. It’s the enablers who get hired.

  36. 36.

    Baud

    December 26, 2019 at 1:04 pm

    @hells littlest angel:

     

    Certain people have more work to do to regain our trust. Todd will have his chance in 2020.

  37. 37.

    zhena gogolia

    December 26, 2019 at 1:04 pm

    @hells littlest angel:

    I’m kind of with you. Todd has actually been doing better in the last few weeks. I’m not willing to say too little, too late, because I’m hoping it really isn’t too late. We need this in the coming months, desperately.

  38. 38.

    Bill Arnold

    December 26, 2019 at 1:07 pm

    Related, has anyone done a decent vivisection of the new GOP “snowflakevictory.com” site?
    It was/is billed as concise, easy-to-remember talking points for arguing AKA reciting GOP talking points during Christmas and other holidays.

    How to win an argument with your liberal relatives
    Paid for by Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.

    I’ve started looking at it (giving it clicks but over a VPN in a private browsing window) and it’s full of lies.
    The top level points are[1] the following. Everyone here can vivisect these, but probably not so tersely:

    The Trump Economy is Strong
    It is important to enforce immigration law & Build the Wall
    Other countries are finally paying their fair share
    Trump is improving our trade deals
    Trump approach to healthcare much better than Dems, who would kill employer-provided healthcare
    Trump is expanding his reach to beyond just his base – Women, Latinos & Black support is growing
    Trump tax cuts fueled the economy, Dems would raise taxes on everybody by repealing the Trump tax cuts
    There was no quid pro quo, Democrats always obsessed with impeachment
    BIG GOVERNMENT SOCIALISM
    Trump is proving it’s possible to have a strong economy and a clean environment at the same time

    I heard a few of these at a Jewish Chinese Restaurant yesterday evening.
    I deliberate sat away from the wingnuts to avoid a food fight or worse, which was probably a wise move.
    Re the clean environment one, Republicans are officially for causing brain damage in babies causing lifelong inteligence reduction, by allowing chlorpyrifos pollution:
    A controversial insecticide and its effect on brain development: Research and resources (David Trilling, April 7, 2017)
    The studies are strong.
    Various other deregulation moves are making our air and water more deadly. (Active opposition by the Trump administration to doing anything about global heating will numerically make the Holocaust look trivial to future historians. etc. etc.)

    This is war. Making it official Republican election strategy to break up families and social gatherings is EVIL

    [1] Seem deliberately hard to copy and paste; had to scrape html.

  39. 39.

    sukabi

    December 26, 2019 at 1:08 pm

    @Baud:

    When Chuck Todd shows you who he is, believe him.

    ——- Abraham Lincoln

     

    “It’s not my job to fact check.”
    — Chuck Todd

  40. 40.

    Sure Lurkalot

    December 26, 2019 at 1:08 pm

    Damn, TaMara, we’re sharing brains today! I had the Jay Rosen article (which I read after Betty’s post) open and was going to try linking it. It deserves your front page treatment though.

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    December 26, 2019 at 1:14 pm

    Trump declares the press to be an enemy of the people, and Chuck Todd’s response is to imitate Elmer Fudd with “I wuz naive.”

    This is the best we’ve got?

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 1:15 pm

    @Baud:

    It's Disinformation, Stupid!

  43. 43.

    Ruckus

    December 26, 2019 at 1:15 pm

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA):

    Republicans have been lying a lot longer than just the last 20 years. It may not have been as obvious as it is now, but they were still lying. A lot.

  44. 44.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 1:15 pm

    I love that every year there are 200 pieces about being nice to your conservative relatives and then conservatives are just “make your liberal relative cry then light them on fire” https://t.co/UkLGfeqopd

    — Crewman Number Guy (@Atrios) December 25, 2019

  45. 45.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 1:17 pm

    @Bill Arnold: What, no we’ve always been at war with EastAsia?

  46. 46.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    December 26, 2019 at 1:19 pm

    I met a bunch of friends out the other night.  We never talk politics.  I used to argue on book of faces a bunch with one particular “friend” but I finally realized it was a waste of my time.  We used to converse face to face but I no longer bother.  I said hello when he showed up and that was it until he left.  I then gladly told him to go fuck himself.  It made my week.

  47. 47.

    Bill Arnold

    December 26, 2019 at 1:19 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    It’s all nonsense so I don’t pay attention to any of it.

    Are you sure you don’t pay attention to it? A lot of it gets washed into the MSM and can become hard to recognize. It’s fucking embarrassing to be taken in by a propaganda narrative, but we’ve all been fooled at least briefly.

  48. 48.

    pamelabrown53

    December 26, 2019 at 1:22 pm

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA):

    My memory finds you missed a step re: Cheney’s office using Meet the Press to further support for the Iraq war. First Cheney’s office would plant a story (unnamed source) in the New York Times, then appear on MTP where they would quote the Times story.

  49. 49.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 26, 2019 at 1:25 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: You should listen to Driftglass and Bluegal’s hour-long interview with Rosen.

    Here's The Professional Left #Podcast for this week, featuring in part, an interview with @jayrosen_nyu of PressThink. Enjoy and thanks for supporting the show, (link in bio) https://t.co/cbBYEgshzZ

    — Pro Left Podcast (@ProLeftPodcast) December 14, 2019

  50. 50.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 26, 2019 at 1:26 pm

    RCP average, 12/19/19:
    Biden – 27.8
    Sanders – 19.3

    RCP average, 12/19/18:
    Biden – 27.5
    Sanders – 19.0

    happy almost 2020!

    — Gabriel Debenedetti (@gdebenedetti) December 26, 2019

  51. 51.

    Ruckus

    December 26, 2019 at 1:26 pm

    @Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.:

    Is that fair to “Vanity Fair Daily?”

    The msm doesn’t want to have to figure out the truth, that takes time and money. And they are trying to make MONEY, not be news organizations. It doesn’t even have to be politics, plain old greed explains it. Not that they might not be republicans, just that greed comes first. Of course it does seem that republicans are greedy as fuck.

  52. 52.

    Another Scott

    December 26, 2019 at 1:29 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    BooMan at WaMo:

    […]

    [Uncle Joe and St. Bernard] are still in a great position because they will almost definitely be winning delegates even in the states that they lose. But neither of them is assured of winning a majority of the delegates and securing the nomination. They haven’t really grown their advantages as much as maintained them even as some of their more potent opponents have faltered or dropped out.

    It will be extremely hard for anyone else to win a majority of the delegates so long as both Biden and Sanders remain in the race and gathering delegates in every contest. If someone can repeatedly come in first place, they might be able to pull it off, but a plurality might be the best an inconsistent winner can do, and that would send the decision to the floor of the convention.

    A lot will change over the next month as we gear up for the first contest in Iowa, but it’s unlikely that anything will change this basic dynamic of the campaign. The impeachment trial of Donald Trump will present risks for Biden, and a new health setback for Sanders could be devastating, but these things have not done enough damage to date to make me change my initial assessment of the race.

    I would be very, very surprised if things turn out that way. Biden has a history of being a bad candidate. Bernie is Bernie.

    But who knows….

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  53. 53.

    Emerald

    December 26, 2019 at 1:30 pm

    The show’s euphemistically been called “Meet the Republicans” for years.

    I think it started in the Reagan administration. The Reaganites schmoozed with the beltway press, made ’em into friends and frankly, colleagues. The beltway press has been strongly Republican ever since (or was it even earlier, because of their newfound wealth).

    And of course FTFNYT has always been Republican. Thus was the national coverage driven in one direction.

    And frankly, I don’t know how we get it back.

  54. 54.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 26, 2019 at 1:32 pm

    Got to Chuckles’ “confessions” in Rosen’s piece.  I’ll continue later.  As the saying goes, can’t have too much of an infuriating piece at once.

  55. 55.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 26, 2019 at 1:33 pm

    .@realDonaldTrump handled his first impeachment so well in 2019, I think we should do it all over again in 2020.— Hamish Mitchell Photography (@H_MitchellPhoto) December 26, 2019

  56. 56.

    BruceFromOhio

    December 26, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    From the linked article, this is the one that stood out for me.

    Four years before Trump was elected, Tom Mann and Norm Orstein wrote, “The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.” Chuck Todd as NBC’s political director, and Meet the Press as its premiere politics show could have taken seriously what these exemplary members of the Washington establishment were saying back in 2012. They chose not to, but not because of their naiveté. They thought they knew better than Mann and Ornstein.

  57. 57.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    December 26, 2019 at 1:37 pm

    No wonder Chuck Todd can unironically say something so utterly jackass and unselfaware. It’s not just that pundits don’t face job consequences for being wrong. They are more insulated from the consequences of their mistakes than even Trump has been all his life. To the extent Todd is even aware that people think he’s a dumbass, he lives in a world where everyone agrees that means he’s a genius speaking hard truths. It’s a bubble where he never has to take responsibility for anything, ever, and is always patted and assured that he is a great journalist whose wisdom guides America.

  58. 58.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 26, 2019 at 1:39 pm

    @Another Scott: With current polling (538 avg), only Biden will get delegates from SC. Death knell for the rest if that happens.

  59. 59.

    Ben Cisco

    December 26, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Bravo, Silverman – well played!

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    @Ben Cisco: Thank you.

  61. 61.

    joel hanes

    December 26, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I wish driftglass and BG did transcripts.

    I hate the podcast format (I’m too impatient/arrogant to listen, even to people I like), and can read a transcript in 1/20th the time it takes to listen to the podcast.

    I really miss driftglass’s longer pieces of writing.  During the reign of Bush the Lesser, he sometimes achieved incandescence.

  62. 62.

    James E Powell

    December 26, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    My memory – not what it once was – is that I read something like that on Ornstein’s twitter.

  63. 63.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 26, 2019 at 1:50 pm

    @germy: LOL It’s funny because it’s so damn true.

    “Be nice to your conservative relatives.”

    (Conservative relatives show up wearing Fuck Your Feelings shirts)

  64. 64.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    December 26, 2019 at 1:55 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: WOW. That’s really something.

    With that kind of stability, I’m feeling better about the Pres. race. All the better to focus on running up the score in Congress next year. That’s where the “achievable policy boundaries” will be set anyhow.

  65. 65.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 26, 2019 at 1:55 pm

    @joel hanes: I listen while doing housework.  Friday night dishes!

  66. 66.

    nyrobbin

    December 26, 2019 at 1:55 pm

    @Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]:

    Driftglass & BlueGal did an interview with Rosen on their Professional Left Podcast a couple of weeks ago. One of their very rare guests.

  67. 67.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 1:55 pm

    @joel hanes:

    I hate the podcast format (I’m too impatient/arrogant to listen, even to people I like), and can read a transcript in 1/20th the time it takes to listen to the podcast.

    I’m the same way.  I can’t listen to someone clear their throat for an hour.  I prefer the written word.

  68. 68.

    Another Scott

    December 26, 2019 at 1:56 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    It seems to me that Biden should be having a much larger lead if he really is going to be the front-runner. Him falling from ~ 40% shortly after he announced to where he is now doesn’t give me the feeling that he’s inevitable.

    It looks like things might be interesting if there is no majority at the convention:

    The new reforms also regulate how the Democratic National Convention shall handle the outcome of primaries and caucuses for three potential scenarios:[1][3]

    * If a single candidate wins at least 2,268 pledged delegates: Superdelegates will be allowed to vote at first ballot, as their influence can not overturn the majority of pledged delegates.

    * If a single candidate wins 1,886–2,267 pledged delegates: Superdelegates will be barred from voting at first ballot, which solely will be decided by the will of pledged delegates.

    * If no candidate wins more than 1,885 pledged delegates: This will result in a contested convention, where superdelegates are barred from voting at the first formal ballot, but regain their right to vote for their preferred presidential nominee for all subsequent ballots needed until the delegates reach a majority.

    Imagine the butt-hurt if the Superdelegates don’t give St. Bernard the nod this time either. :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  69. 69.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    December 26, 2019 at 1:57 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: They’re just playing to their respective audiences.

    “Fuck your feelings” doesn’t play as well on our side (although it has gained significant favor in the Trump era, to our detriment…)

  70. 70.

    Doug R

    December 26, 2019 at 1:58 pm

    @joel hanes:I’m not a huge fan of sitting through hours of conversation-however a lot of players let you crank up the speed and when you’re between radio stations, the infill conversation is more tolerable.

  71. 71.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    December 26, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    @Another Scott: Get ready. There’s a reasonable likelihood of this happening.

  72. 72.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 26, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: So you’re agreeing with me?

  73. 73.

    Shakti

    December 26, 2019 at 2:00 pm

    @germy:

    See, this is why even though plenty of dumbasses have elite credentials I’m automatically suspicious of the narrative that “credentialism is bad.” Because the people who got to these positions without credentials are never people who look like me. Ever.

    The magical time when credentialism wasn’t rampant only applied to a certain class of people.  :/

  74. 74.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 2:03 pm

    @Shakti: Yes, my thoughts exactly.  Certain people are allowed to coast to the top, but they never look like me or anyone in my family.

  75. 75.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 26, 2019 at 2:05 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Greed does not explain it.  As 2016 demonstrated, the national press will ignore exciting Republican scandals right in their face to dig for one more excuse to pretend a tedious anti-Democrat story is exciting.  Emails was BORING.  They still rode it relentlessly.  Ebola didn’t magically stop being exciting news after that election, it just magically stopped being good for Republicans.  There is no greed need to Both Sides But Democrats Are Worse, only a political motivation.  At best, you could say that political motivation was greedy because Republicans serve rich interests.  I don’t buy that one, but it’s a good argument.

  76. 76.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    December 26, 2019 at 2:06 pm

    @Another Scott: I think we’ll see more movement to Biden as 1) more candidates drop out, and 2) Biden starts winning states like SC by big margins.

    With results in Iowa and NH likely to be close, and unlikely to produce a breakout star, Biden’s victories (and margins) in SC and NV will attract attention in mid-Feb, giving him momentum heading into Super Tuesday.

  77. 77.

    Warblewarble

    December 26, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    “All we want are the facts” Duck Jawed is no Joe Friday

  78. 78.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    December 26, 2019 at 2:09 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: I think so :)

  79. 79.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 26, 2019 at 2:10 pm

    OT but LOL

    The community favorite Human Hungry Hungry Hippos Tournament on Ice is coming up sooner than you think on February 9, 2020!Register your team before slots fill up: https://t.co/n3LQ96f8dVVideo by: @GRSSC pic.twitter.com/sO7bcYkqaD— DowntownGRInc (@DowntownGRInc) December 26, 2019

  80. 80.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 2:11 pm

    @Shakti: @germy: As someone with a lot of credentials, I think the real issue is between credentials and expertise. There are people with both. There are people with credentials that really don’t have much expertise or their credentials and expertise are not in the same area as where they’re being used as experts. And there are people with expertise without credentials. The latter often have the hardest time of it because the credentials are usually the invitation to the party.

  81. 81.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There are people with credentials that really don’t have much expertise or their credentials and expertise are not in the same area as where they’re being used as experts.

    Yes, I was surprised to learn recently that Emptywheel’s degree is in Comparative Literature.  I read her for years assuming she had a law degree.

  82. 82.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 26, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    @Another Scott: Supers will vote for the winner of the most pledged delegates.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    December 26, 2019 at 2:18 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

     

    Generally agree, but I think it gets interesting if coalitions form where, for example, the Warren and Sanders delegates join together and exceed Biden’s delegate count.

    But if Biden (or another candidate) has a clear plurality and no one else has a respectable claim to the nomination, then the Supers will put that person over the top.

  84. 84.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 26, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    My nym.  Over and over again.

    Wipe them out.  All of them.

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 2:24 pm

    @germy: What she’s good at in regards to legal analysis is actually applying deep textual reading and analysis to the legal documents she reviews. She’s thorough and tenacious and meticulous. When she’s doing that stuff she’s usually spot on. But that, and the experience and expertise she’s developed as a result, is not equivalent to having a law degree and significant experience in national security law. Or intelligence and national security. Or national security.

    But she’s not really the issue, nor really where I was targeting my comments. Rather, it is to people like Brett Stephens and Bari Weiss and Charles Krauthammer and folks like that. They have neither the credentials, nor the experience, nor the expertise to do the work they are doing. But they’re doing it. And we’re all worse off for it.

  86. 86.

    Immanentize

    December 26, 2019 at 2:26 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Why do you believe that? Just a feeling? In fact, as pointed out, Supers (now called automatic delegates) don’t get to vote in the first ballot unless a majority of non-automatic delegates are committed to a winner. Then and only then they may pile on to end the voting early. Again:

    Superdelegates will no longer vote on the first ballot at the convention unless there is no doubt about the outcome. To win on the first ballot, the frontrunner must secure the majority of pledged delegates available during the nominating contests (primary and caucus) leading up to the Democratic Convention. We estimate^ 3,979 total pledged delegates, with a majority being 1,990.

    All delegates become unpledged and superdelegates will also vote if the convention is contested (i.e., more than one ballot is needed to select a nominee). For those subsequent ballots, a majority of all 4,745 delegates (2,373) will be needed to secure the nomination.

    The whole point is to NOT allow automatic delegates to exert any influence beyond committed delegates in the first round. Then, anything can happen.

  87. 87.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 2:26 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:  I think my problem is with the folks making the hiring decisions.  They know what they’re doing.

  88. 88.

    sdhays

    December 26, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    It’s not a problem for us if you stagger from the room in disbelief. We’re not trying to “win the news cycle,” or win you over. We’re trying to demonstrate independence from and power over you people.

    This crystalized an angle that I hadn’t fully been conscious of. These political journalists have gotten addicted to being treated like “make you or break you” power brokers. In the 90’s and early aughts, they were the people to be flattered and won over. And they still think they have that kind of power. To some extent, they still do (see, Harris, Kamala), but not anywhere near the level that they did before.

    The idea that political actors don’t give a shit what they think or what they will do is inconceivable for them. I knew this, but this quote made that fact stand out extra clear for me.

  89. 89.

    germy

    December 26, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    None of the right people have impostor syndrome

    — Natalia Imperatori (@nimperatori) December 26, 2019

  90. 90.

    sdhays

    December 26, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    @germy: To be fair, I don’t think Chuck Todd “ruined” MTP. It was already shitty when he took over.

  91. 91.

    ThresherK

    December 26, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    I read Jay Rosen’s Twitter all the time, but whenever there is a new PressThink article, it really is just like Christmas for me.

    PS I see that comments for this new article are off. There are very few trolls who try to Bobo-ify their way onto that site, but Rosen may be tired of fkcing around with them.

  92. 92.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 26, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    @Immanentize: Why do you believe that? Just a feeling?

    It would be party suicide not to. Supers voting for the plurality winner is the easiest way out, as well as the right thing to do. At the end of the day, Democrats tend to do both.

  93. 93.

    sukabi

    December 26, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: fortunately for us, Krauthammer can’t bridge the gap between the afterlife and reality. His former editors may try and pass off his old work as relevant, but he’s not pushing new bullshit.

  94. 94.

    sdhays

    December 26, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Awesome reference!

  95. 95.

    brantl

    December 26, 2019 at 2:48 pm

    @hells littlest angel: Actually, put Grima in a suit, slather him with Preparation H to iron out the wrinkles, and I bet their twins.

  96. 96.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    @sukabi: True.

  97. 97.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 26, 2019 at 2:57 pm

    @sdhays: Thank you.

  98. 98.

    Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)

    December 26, 2019 at 3:01 pm

     

    @pamelabrown53:  You’re correct, but I didn’t need the NY Times step to illustrate that MTP has been useless for a long time.

    Now, if you have a few hours/days/months we can talk about the uselessness of the NY Times.

  99. 99.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 26, 2019 at 3:09 pm

    @sdhays: Tim Russert saw to that.

  100. 100.

    J R in WV

    December 26, 2019 at 3:22 pm

    @hells littlest angel:

    I don’t like Chuck Todd much, but he’s not Grima Fucking Wormtongue, either.

    Ya think?

    You’re entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that he is an off-spring of Grima Wormtongue, a smaller wyrm squirming in the waste of Papa Grima, and spreading lies as it squirms. Or things to that effect!

  101. 101.

    J R in WV

    December 26, 2019 at 3:36 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Republicans have been lying a lot longer than just the last 20 years. It may not have been as obvious as it is now, but they were still lying. A lot.

     

    Senator Joseph McCarthy from “”this day in History”  on Feb 9, 1950:

    Speaking before the Ohio County Women’s Republican Club in Wheeling, West Virginia, Senator McCarthy waved before his audience a piece of paper. According to the only published newspaper account of the speech, McCarthy said that, “I have here in my hand a list of 205 [State Department employees] that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department.” In the next few weeks, the number fluctuated wildly, with McCarthy stating at various times that there were 57, or 81, or 10 communists in the Department of State. In fact, McCarthy never produced any solid evidence that there was even one communist in the State Department.

    So there’s a big bunch of lies Republicans were spinning 70 years ago. Of course they called the fabulously wealthy FDR a commie for decades as well, starting something like 85 years ago.

    Ya know how to tell a Republican is lying don’t ya? They lips iz moving!!!

  102. 102.

    J R in WV

    December 26, 2019 at 3:49 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Rather, it is to people like Brett Stephens and Bari Weiss and Charles Krauthammer and folks like that. They have neither the credentials, nor the experience, nor the expertise to do the work they are doing. But they’re doing it. And we’re all worse off for it.

    Not only that, Dr Krauthammer is still DEAD…!      ;-)

    And never had any credentials as far as foreign policy, or any government policy goes.

  103. 103.

    Ruckus

    December 26, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    l’m looking at the bigger picture, not just the editorial slant, but why the particular media entity is run as a republican mouthpiece rather than a actual journalistic operation. The owners demand that, and the employees get paid far more than they should to play the game. Most of us do at least some things we’d rather not have to, to hold a job, a lot of the msm front line seem to do mostly what they like and get paid rather nicely for that.

    That’s greed. Or they are just money whores who, from the looks of it couldn’t get any kind of honest work.

    That’s also greed.

  104. 104.

    Ruckus

    December 26, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    @germy:

    Decades ago I helped a buddy study for the bar exam. I often knew the answer to the study question that he struggled with and he’d been to law school, which I hadn’t. Emptywheel could be like that, reasonably well read but without the degree/credential. And having read her stuff I’d go with that.

    BTW it hasn’t been a secret for a lot of years that she isn’t a lawyer.

  105. 105.

    Scamp Dog

    December 26, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA): On a cheerier note, it’s good to see you, and is there any chance we could get more news from Iggy and Muppet? I miss your write-ups of their shenanigans.

  106. 106.

    different-church-lady

    December 26, 2019 at 4:40 pm

    @Bill Arnold: It occurs to me that other than item one, the appropriate response to everything on that list would be, “Prove it.”

  107. 107.

    sab

    December 26, 2019 at 5:39 pm

    @Ruckus: In the olden days, people studied for the bar by apprenticing or just studying. I believe Abe Lincoln did that.  Sort of knowledge not connections.

  108. 108.

    Yutsano

    December 26, 2019 at 5:51 pm

    @sab: You can still apprentice for the bar, but only in one state: Virginia. Unless that law changed.

  109. 109.

    sukabi

    December 26, 2019 at 5:51 pm

    @J R in WV: 

    Not only that, Dr Krauthammer is still DEAD…! ;-)

    And never had any credentials as far as foreign policy, or any government policy goes.

    Yes, but you could hear and feel the condescention dripping from his “columns” and he said “all the right things” so was an “official mouthpiece” of the monied class.

  110. 110.

    Chris Johnson

    December 26, 2019 at 8:44 pm

    If Chuck Todd is pleading naivete, it’s because he’s trying to weasel out of known guilt.

    Naive my ass. He’s known what he was doing this whole time.

    The really interesting point here is, WHY does he now try to weasel out of what he’s always been? It’s a sign of weakness, or something (in the forces of evil) breaking down. I like it, even while I despise Chuck Todd and all the Village. Why now? Why this? How come suddenly they’re pleading naivete, and couldn’t have known? Why do they not carry on as usual?

  111. 111.

    thalarctosMaritimus

    December 27, 2019 at 1:40 am

    @Yutsano:

    Washington, too.

  112. 112.

    Radiumgirl

    December 27, 2019 at 5:04 am

    It’s not just an issue for the Beltway press. Reporters in general (I used to be one) rely on an understanding that their sources are telling them the truth — that they’re operating in good faith. And for many grossly overworked reporters in small cities and towns — I’m talking print now, a dying industry — you went with what people told you because you had to crank out three stories on deadline.

    But once you realize you’ve been lied to, I cannot understand why you would go back to those same sources. Why keep booking Kelly Anne Conway when it’s clear she’s a liar? Why book anyone who has lied on the air? That ought to be an absolute deal-breaker.

    I don’t watch Meet the Press, but from what I’ve seen in clips, Todd seems incapable of thinking on his feet. And he seems especially ill-equipped to deal with  the fundamental problem, which is that the long-standing paradigm of the reporter-source relationship has been shattered by unscrupulous people who have no hestitation to lie. The way to restore that paradigm is to refuse to be played. Call out people who lie  and stop booking them. Take away their oxygen. Find another format for your program; MTP does what it does because it’s easy and requires few resources — book the blatherheads, ask them a couple questions and give them 7 minutes to spew their spiel. Cut to commercial. Congratulate yourself for your public interest programming. It’s lazy, cheap, and I presume profitable. Or at least not a big money-loser.

  113. 113.

    Jak

    December 27, 2019 at 5:56 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: you are correct sir, I remember it too.

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