Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

This fight is for everything.

You cannot shame the shameless.

“More of this”, i said to the dog.

We still have time to mess this up!

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Optimism opens the door to great things.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

No one could have predicted…

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Everybody saw this coming.

T R E 4 5 O N

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Election Year Open Thread: Joe Biden’s Gift

Election Year Open Thread: Joe Biden’s Gift

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He likes people, actual individual humans… and they like him, in response. This is rarer than seems reasonable, even among long-term successful politicians.

The campaign staff of Trump’s preferred opponent reacted as expected:

One thing, at least: Sanders has a representative who can Gish-Gallop as fluently as even Kellyanne Conway!

Meanwhile, from the Biden campaign:

Reader Interactions

211Comments

  1. 1.

    JMG

    I am a native Delawarean. You have put your finger on Biden’s political strength. Delaware’s a small place, especially at the top, and everybody likes Joe. One of my brothers still lives there, and is an attorney who does a little behind the scenes Republican politics (he’s a country club Republican, state still has those). “I hate Joe’s politics,” he said a few years ago, “but he’s a delightful guy.” In a general election against a man who urges people to embrace their inner monster, that’s a strength. Only thing is, the first election I voted in was Biden’s first Senate run in 1972. I’m 70. He’s just too old.

  2. 2.

    Panurge

    So who’s NOT Trump’s preferred opponent? No matter who it is, he’s going to act as if s/he is.

  5. 5.

    Brachiator

    He likes people, actual individual humans… and they like him, in response. This is rarer than seems reasonable, even among long-term successful politicians.

    This is why Trump fears Biden and tried so hard to smear him.

  7. 7.

    Anne Laurie

    @West of the Rockies: I hope he selects an excellent VP.

    You are not alone!  Assuming he *is* our candidate, picking a younger woman and/or person of color would ease a lot of dedicated Dems’ secret fears.

  9. 9.

    trollhattan

    I have a sibling adroit at throwing out a verbal poison dart then “withdrawing” it with a “never mind.” That’s what Wilmer just did here.

    Biden ad is really good. Retail politics is certainly one of his strengths.

  10. 10.

    hells littlest angel

    I’ve gone from hoping Warren wins to hoping Biden picks Harris as his running mate. And I’m okay with that.

  12. 12.

    Emerald

    @JMG: Yes, he is too old, but right now I think we need the old pro politician who knows how the government works and might be able to put it back together again. Plus, as Obama’s VP, Joe is by far the best to repair our relations with our allies and regain at least some of our standing in the world.

    Plus, I don’t care about policy this time. We’re trying to save democracy. If we succeed, then we can worry about policy again.

    I expected Joe to gaff himself into oblivion by this time, but he hasn’t. I think old Joe’s gonna go all the way, and at this point that’s fine with me.

  13. 13.

    Mike in DC

    At this rate I think Sanders will drop out of my top 5 candidates soon. He’s around 5th right now. I have Warren first, then Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Biden. But I am coming around a bit on Biden. He is likely to disappoint me on many things, but I hope that he will deliver at least 3 decent policy initiatives as president. The biggest disappointment is likely to be a failure to hold the 45 administration accountable for the crimes that it has committed.

  15. 15.

    Anne Laurie

    @debbie: Biden ought to start talking about Trump’s unlikability. That’d really drive him over the edge!

    Even better, Biden should — will! — talk about how Donald Trump just doesn’t like other people.  He has no friends, he despises his own kids (other than the one he has vulgar fantasies about), and he had to buy a mail-order bride.   He hangs around his golf clubs, bragging about his imaginary accomplishments, trying to get strangers to admire him. Imagine the investigative safaris to find someone that isn’t looking for a favor from him who has a kind word for the man.

  16. 16.

    lamh36

    I’m gonna look forward to the thread from Adams S after I get out of class today !

     

    BREAKING: The Russian government Gazprombank deposited over half a billion dollars into a Deutsche Bank subsidiary as the subsidiary lent to Trump, according to confidential documents obtained by @forensicnewsnet. forensicnews.net/2020/01/13/rus… #TrumpDeutscheBankLoans

    https://twitter.com/scottmstedman/status/1219743979450834950?s=21

  22. 22.

    GaryK

    @hells littlest angel: You spoke my very thoughts. And one reason I’m OK with it is that I can see what our most valuable and honored political allies (such as the audience in the video) really want him.

  26. 26.

    MattF

    Seems to me that the primary campaign is performing its function by revealing that Sanders is yet-another-asshole. We’ve already got one of those in the White House. It’s not what I want.

  27. 27.

    sdhays

    @West of the Rockies: I’m surprising myself in saying that with Kamala having left the race, I find myself drifting towards Biden. I really like Warren, so my mind isn’t made up. But, man, if I knew Kamala was going to be the VP candidate, I wouldn’t have any questions on who I was going to support.

  31. 31.

    zhena gogolia

    Adam Schiff deserves an award for not just screaming "WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU LYING TRAITORS?!" into the mic for 60 mins straight.— Jon Zal (@OfficialJonZal) January 21, 2020

  32. 32.

    Nelle

    The wind chill is up to zero today and campaign workers back out door to door in Iowa.   I’m rather impressed.

  35. 35.

    Miss Bianca

    @Emerald: Yeah, you know, I love Warren and when push comes to shove I will probably vote for her in the primary, but I am coming round to your way of thinking about Biden.

    And damn, has he been doing some great ads.

    And yeah…nice to see Sanders *finally* getting some real pushback in the media. I’ve been sick and damn tired of his smear jobs by proxy ever since 2015, and the gaslighting that comes with it. Here’s hoping he goes down to an even more ignominious defeat than in ’16 to either Warren *or* Biden, and pisses off forever to his dacha on the shores of Lake Champlain.

  36. 36.

    JMG

    @Emerald: Don’t get me wrong. I will happily support Biden. I just wish he wasn’t older than septuagenerian me, so I prefer Warren. I have little doubt he will pick Harris or maybe but probably not Stacey Abrams as his VP if nominated. He’s an old pro, and he knows that kind of balance was how HE got to be VP.

  37. 37.

    West of the Rockies

    @Anne Laurie:

    I think the “I Actually Like Trump” would go like this:

    Camera pans through the crowd at. Jersey strip club, settles on a group of aging men.

    “My name is Tony the Weasel, and I’ve known Donnie fuhevah.  He’s aces in my book.”

    “I’m Frankie the Rat, and Donnie is my pal.  Yeah, we also go way back, and–hey… Is that a fuckin’ camera?  Get that outta my face!  My wife can’t see me here!”

  39. 39.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Biden brings two important things to the race.  As noted here, he genuinely likes people and they respond to that.  And he, in contrast to Trump, radiates decency.  We could use some of both of those things.

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    That video from The Times along with Biden’s ad sums up why he is doing well with Black voters. Jacqueline acted towards him the way the folks that I work with feel about Uncle Joe.And, that ad was pitch perfect as well as the truth.

  42. 42.

    JPL

    I didn’t want Biden to enter the race but he did.  If he wants Hillary as VP that would be fine with me.   Let trump prove his shit isn’t gold plated.

  43. 43.

    debbie

    I sat in chamber for entire Schiff speech. That was a mauling. Trump team thought they were there to debate process and Schiff ambushed them with a full-throated case for impeachment. Republicans were visibly uncomfortable. Sekulow & Cippolone responses were rambling & bombastic
    — Jon Ward (@jonward11) January 21, 2020

  45. 45.

    ThresherK

    If only that working-class black woman and that security guard were in a diner in East Nosepick, Penntucksconsigan. Maybe the NYT would listen to them then.

  46. 46.

    debbie

    Shouldn’t this warrant imprisonment?

    At least 8 senators had Apple Watches strapped on their wrists in the chamber at the start of the impeachment trial Tuesday, despite guidelines from Senate leadership that all electronics should be left in the cloakroom in the provided storage. https://t.co/OVVg9T3p9S
    — K Tully-McManus (@ktullymcmanus) January 21, 2020

  47. 47.

    Martin

    This is fine.

    The Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos had his mobile phone “hacked” in 2018 after receiving a WhatsApp message that had apparently been sent from the personal account of the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, sources have told the Guardian.

    The encrypted message from the number used by Mohammed bin Salman is believed to have included a malicious file that infiltrated the phone of the world’s richest man, according to the results of a digital forensic analysis.

    This analysis found it “highly probable” that the intrusion into the phone was triggered by an infected video file sent from the account of the Saudi heir to Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post.

  48. 48.

    kindness

    I LIKE Joe Biden.  He just isn’t my first choice.  I don’t really like Bernie but don’t hate the guy.  I don’t really hate anyone.  Loathe?  Yea….long list.  That’s different though.

    I’ll happily vote for either of the old guys if they are nominated.  I’d more happily vote for the just as old (almost) lady as I really like Warren.

  49. 49.

    VeniceRiley

    My list is fast approaching an Amy on top.  But I’d still take Elizabeth. I wish Wilmer supporters would switch to her, as she would be acceptable to most of us … whereas he clearly is not

  51. 51.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    If it is Biden, he almost has to pick Harris, doesn’t he? I think she’d be taking one for the team if she agreed to it. I think the world of Stacey Abrams, and maybe her star-power can overcome her brief resume, but Harris is probably the safer choice

  52. 52.

    Kent

    A Biden – Harris ticket I’m fine with.

    Schiff is the obvious choice for the next Speaker of the House when (and only when) Nancy decides it is finally time to hang up her stilettos.

  54. 54.

    debbie

    And yet, I still want Warren. None of this moving on crap, please.

    NEW: Elizabeth Warren just announced plans for an independent DoJ task force to investigate and prosecute Trump administration crimes. This is such a big deal. https://t.co/l4OgsOPsiw
    — Angus Johnston (@studentactivism) January 21, 2020

  55. 55.

    guachi

    I saw someone else write something along the lines of: Biden has lost a step but he hasn’t lost his basic decency. Trump has lost a step and hasn’t lost his basic indecency.

  57. 57.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    is there a schedule for these  hearings posted anywhere ? I thought I heard the Tortoise burp something about a dinner break.

  58. 58.

    Gvg

    @opiejeanne: yeah, I wanted a woman or minority and was disappointed when the white men took the lead, but it’s crossed my mind a few times that Schiff could have been my preferred candidate. I appreciate him so much.
    Biden liking people is a real point though. Now the real question about any President, but especially after Trump is who all his appointments would be. Not just VP….how about Secretary of State and Defense? It’s considered presumptuous to say now but IMO that is how you know the most about an administration. We have such a mess to clean up.

  59. 59.

    Miss Bianca

    @debbie: I would vote for Biden with one hell of a lot more brio than I did for either Mondale or Dukakis.

     

    And only partly because, unlike with them, I would be feeling pretty sure he’d win.

  60. 60.

    Chyron HR

    And yet the Bro freakshow will lecture us on all day long about why we must kneel before Bernie (the “and suck it” is merely implied).

  61. 61.

    Ella in New Mexico

    If I were allowed to vote before June 2, 2020 I’d be supporting someone else who may likely be gone by my actual state primary date. But Biden is a good and decent human being, and he actually does have the character and skills to be a great President, and will be if he’s elected. His humanity is undeniable and people are ready for that.

    It’s important that no matter who we support, we recognize that a semblance of these set traits are going to be a huge characteristic people voting for the Democrat in November will be looking for in the candidate, regardless of who we nominate. People in the country need to feel they’re voting for something–someone– that will be a  part in the cleansing of the ugliness of Trump and the Republican Cabal, or many simply believe the “both sides are the same” narrative coming out of the GRU and stay home. Good news for us: We have quite a few options when it comes to decency and genuineness.

    In contrast to other Democrats running, I do think Sanders has a pretty crappy campaign staff who do not really serve him well. He lets far too many people both officially in and out of it “speak on his behalf” when they’re just pushing their own agenda through his candidacy. Someone needs to sit Bernie Boy down and break the news to him that he’s in danger of being completely highjacked unless he gets a hold on his campaign and his surrogates ASAP. “No more of this “sorry that op ed was released” crap. You’re the candidate–you’re supposed to inspire confidence in your ability to take over a broken, dysfunctional Executive Branch and you can’t even stop this kind of shit from happening? Who’s the fuck’s in charge here, Bernie?”

    Maybe his more reasonable supporters can start sending that message through social media or email soon. I remember realizing in early April 2016 he had changed from “inspiring progressive voice” to “pool shitter and losing refusnik ” and did just that, and I think so did a lot of others. It’s even more important he hears that now.

  64. 64.

    dr. bloor

    @debbie:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not to be That Guy, although I invariable am, but I wonder what the calculus is among his advisors in terms of gender and race in his choice, and frankly worry that “Black” AND “woman” might be a bridge too far for them.  If he wins, his VP has measurable odds of serving out a term in the Oval Office, and the R’s will make a BFD out of that where it counts.

    Parenthetically, I’d be a little disappointed to see Harris on the ticket, as she’s a badass senator.

  65. 65.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Elaina Plott @ elainaplott
    “Risch was the first lawmaker seen by Washington Post reporters to clearly have fallen asleep, about four hours after the trial proceedings began Tuesday.”

    My money was on Shelby. He looked like Monty Burns older Southern cousin in the Sunday show clips floating around a couple days ago.

  66. 66.

    Duane

    @Omnes Omnibus: Biden has personality. We’ve all known people who never met a stranger. My mom was like that. Next thing you know, they’re having lunch and exchanging Christmas cards.

  71. 71.

    Kent

    @debbie: Schiff has been a revelation for me.  He speaks with a level of conviction, gravitas, and integrity that I haven’t seen since Peak Obama.  And he has shown himself to be smart as hell and tough as nails.   I can think of no one else better suited to herding cats and negotiating with future Senates and future White Houses.

  72. 72.

    WaterGirl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think Stacey Abrams would be the safer choice.  Times 10.  Every statistic I saw said that she had very little support from black people.  I have to think the opposite would be true for Stacey Abrams.

    I think Joe and Stacey Abrams is the strongest option we’ve got.  I was totally pissed that Joe entered the race, even though I have always liked him.  (Yes, he has flaws.)

    But we need to win, at all costs, and I think that combination gets us there.

  76. 76.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @WaterGirl:

     I was totally pissed that Joe entered the race, even though I have always liked him.  (Yes, he has flaws.)

    that’s where I started out, and now I’ve got one foot in Joe’s camp. I like Warren, but I think she’s still spending too much time (figuratively) on twitter. Amy The K was too slow out of the gate and I don’t think she can catch up now.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    @WaterGirl: I don’t know.   Before voting for Abrams, I voted for EVans in the primary.  She had the more compelling story and polled ahead of all the republicans.   Abrams was middle class and Evans wasn’t but for some reason the kos folks attacked her.  Stacy Evans is running for a state seat again and I hope she wins and runs for a higher state office.

  78. 78.

    Immanentize

    why Harris as VP??  Those keeping score know I am Harris first, Warren second, Castro third.  Oh well, I clearly sucksuck at  at prognostication.  Is this a White Folks like any black person like them the issue?  She was NOT catching fire in the AA community.  Or POC community.  Lots of reasons for that which I have discussed before. What State does she help with? California? From what I hear from my friends, the lack of excitement about Harris is not policy but personal.  Second, Stacy Abrams is Buttigieg.  Never won state office.  So, more deeper thinking less tokenism, K?

  80. 80.

    trollhattan

    @Kent:

    Can I stipulate that Nancy must leave a stiletto in a Certain Somebody on her way out the door?

    “Aaand, that’s a wrap.”

  81. 81.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl:

    She’s probably more popular but it would raise the issue of the Veep for an old president not ever having been elected (unjustly) to even state wide office.  It’s one of the critiques of people who oppose Pete.

  82. 82.

    Captain C

    @JPL:  I think a nontrivial percentage of them are fine with it, as long as they’re not directly affected (except for getting their tax cuts, if they qualify).

  83. 83.

    Immanentize

    @Miss Bianca: Both those guys, Mondale and Dukakis, are such deeply good humans.  If you like Carter now, both those fellows are like him.  But, the tank and all for Dukakis. ..

  86. 86.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: Geography puts you more in the know on that than I am.  But I find Stacey Abrams very impressive, and to me she has that “it” factor that can’t be easily defined.  Plus, she’s smart as a whip, very genuine, and can think on her feet.

    I could get excited about Stacey Abrams.

  87. 87.

    JPL

    @Immanentize: lol See my comment about Abrams above yours.  I’m glad she is out there raising awareness for voting rights and I plan to support that effort.

  88. 88.

    Mo MacArbie

    Bravo to Schiff, but I don’t see following one California speaker with another, even if they are a fifth of the caucus.

  89. 89.

    trollhattan

    @Immanentize:

    Abrams came within a whisker of winning governor in a difficult Southern state and IIUC was basically cheated out of it. She was charming and effective in the thankless SOTU response and is currently out working hard for the party. Demonstrated accomplishment far beyond Mayor Pete. Token? Hardly. Future rock star.

    ETA I don’t think she wants VP.

  90. 90.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I don’t really care about the statewide experience (sorry) and I believe she does have administrative experience, which counts for a lot.

    Look what she’s doing with her Fair Fight organization.  That’s a big deal to me.

    Conventional wisdom used to be that your odds for the presidency weren’t all that great if you were from the House or the Senate,.

    Also, people hold stuff against people they don’t like that they would never care about for people you like AND trust.

  92. 92.

    dm

    MBS sent Jeff Bezos a WhatsApp message that seems to have hacked his phone, leading to the export of lots of sensitive data:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jan/21/amazon-boss-jeff-bezoss-phone-hacked-by-saudi-crown-prince

    (A reminder of some background, if anyone needs it: Bezos owns the Washington Post, which employed Jamal Kashoggi before MBS had Kashoggi killed; texts between Bezos’ and his mistress were leaked, leading to Bezos’ divorce.)

    I wonder what’s on Jared’s phone.  I wonder if MBS ever WhatsApped the Security-Risk-in-Chief’s phone.  I wonder what form Xi Jinping’s hackers use for their phone hacks.

  96. 96.

    JPL

    @WaterGirl: Both Stacy’s are smart, but Evans grew up dirt poor and by that I mean evicted from one trailer to another and managed to graduate with a Law Degree from GA.  She’s running for another seat in the state, and I hate to sound ugly but Abrams has already said that’s not her thing.  If we are going to flip GA, it is going to be from the ground up.  I lost all respect for Kos when they booed EVans at their event.  Now Abrams did reach across the aisle to work with the assholes more than EVans though, she had that.

  100. 100.

    MomSense

    @Immanentize:

    My understanding of the situation, was that black women were waiting to see how she did in Iowa. They don’t have faith in white people’s willingness to vote for a black woman.  She was leading in second choice in Iowa and SC.

  101. 101.

    Mo MacArbie

    @Martin: I won’t begrudge him that, but I think basic federalism would argue for giving another state a turn, and that could be persuasive if the rest of the caucus doesn’t want things to grow too lopsided. I imagine Hoyer and Clyburn are bound to be in the running.

  102. 102.

    Miss Bianca

    @Immanentize: I ended up feeling so sorry for Dukakis, who seemed like not only a decent human being but also a decent governor. But the media decided he wasn’t one of the Kool Kisz fairly early on. I’ll never forget that asshole who asked him if he’d support the death penalty for someone who raped and killed his wife. I would have given anything for him to turn that around with, “what if it was YOUR SON who raped and killed my wife? Would you then be so eager to hear me say I’d support the death penalty?”

  103. 103.

    Immanentize

    @trollhattan: I think “loser of state wide race” is the operative factor.  Why not Holder? Or Lynch?  If we are just cruising black folks?  I love Abrams, and so many others I am dedicated to diversity in this choice and I see the problems with the “any black person we dig” strategy.

  104. 104.

    The Dangerman

    @debbie:

    Elizabeth Warren just announced plans for an independent DoJ task force to investigate and prosecute Trump administration crimes.

    That sounds perfectly Vice Presidential to me. Biden/Warren?

    Tell Trump there is a Warren out for his arrest and hope he strokes out.

  105. 105.

    Kent

    @Immanentize:why Harris as VP??  Those keeping score know I am Harris first, Warren second, Castro third.  Oh well, I clearly sucksuck at  at prognostication.  Is this a White Folks like any black person like them the issue?  She was NOT catching fire in the AA community.  Or POC community.  Lots of reasons for that which I have discussed before. What State does she help with? California? From what I hear from my friends, the lack of excitement about Harris is not policy but personal.  Second, Stacy Abrams is Buttigieg.  Never won state office.  So, more deeper thinking less tokenism, K?

     

    In an alternate world were Obama was never president and we have the 2008 Obama running today against Biden under today’s conditions. I don’t think he gets widespread black support to start the campaign either. Same as Harris and Booker.  A 1-term Senator with a funny name and not from a traditional AA background?

    I haven’t lived through CA under Harris so I really don’t know. But from what little I saw of her on the national stage in the Senate, and in the early campaign I thought she definitely has what it takes. If Biden is the nominee I think she is definitely in the conversation along with Abrams, Klobuchar, Warren and maybe one of the governors (just not Kate Brown from OR please).

    And here is a real wild-card for VP: Michelle Obama. The Obama girls are both out of the house and she is tanned and rested.  You wanna talk about a pair of running mates with people skills and star power?   Someone who can get the black vote out in every state?

  106. 106.

    dr. bloor

    @Mo MacArbie:

    Rather see him shoot for the Senate–it’s not clear he has the skill set for the Speakership, and some of his best attributes would be muted by the demands of the position.

  107. 107.

    Tom Levenson

    @debbie: You should never feel bad about voting for Mike Dukakis. He was, alas, a less than persuasive national candidate. But I’ve got to know him just a little w/in Brookline politics (in which he’s still active!) and he is a genuinely good man with a commitment to government as a mechanism for human betterment.

    I feel proud of my votes for him at the state level and the national; he’s just a mensch.

  108. 108.

    MoxieM

    Biden wouldn’t be my first choice (Sen. Prof. Warren), but I will note that Dr. Mrs. Biden would most likely bring good stuff to the FLOTUS role, having been teaching (remedial, I think) English at Community College for some time. Imagine! A real live education advocate floating around the halls of 1600 PA Ave.

  110. 110.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense: I don’t think she was ever second in SC. Ever

    Her trouble comes not from “Kamala is a cop” although Bernie did some damage with that. Rather: First her marriage to a white guy. Second (as a deep corollary to the first) her mixed heritage.

    Don’t flame me. I am the runner, not the news.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    I would say that Obama has that similar quality of enjoying talking to ordinary people. He always seemed to have way more fun visiting factories and science fairs than going to events full of politicians. That may be one of the reasons he and Joe get along so well.

    Sanders, on the other hand, freely admits that he doesn’t like people and never bothers to remember anyone’s birthday. This is kind of a problem when you’re trying to jolly people along and get them to agree with you.

  114. 114.

    gene108

    Watched a bit of the Senate show-trial.

    I think Trump bringing in a lawyer, as capable as Sekulow for his defense is overkill.

    The fix is in.

    Trump could’ve gone with a couple of chimps defending him, and result would be the same.

    The Senate acquits 53-47.

  115. 115.

    Immanentize

    @Tom Levenson: me too.  I have been able to really get some great personal interactions with Mike — mostly at N.U. (I’m a Husky) but also on the green line.  ?

  116. 116.

    Kent

    @Immanentize:@trollhattan: I think “loser of state wide race” is the operative factor.  Why not Holder? Or Lynch?  If we are just cruising black folks?  I love Abrams, and so many others I am dedicated to diversity in this choice and I see the problems with the “any black person we dig” strategy.

    If the future of the country is at stake with this election and we can’t afford to leave anything to chance.  Then how about Michelle Obama for VP?  Send her to Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Charlotte to get out the black vote and every other vote.  If there is anyone in this country with better people skills than Joe Biden it is Michelle Obama.   And if we want to repair our standing around the world, who better to send around the world in state visits than VP than Michelle and 2nd Gentleman Barak?

  117. 117.

    Mnemosyne

    @Immanentize:

    I’ve seen Abrams speak on teevee and whatever “It” is in political terms, she’s got It. It’s a shame that she’s dedicated to her racist, sexist home state, because if she lived someplace like New York or California, she’d be a second-term governor by now.

  120. 120.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Immanentize:

    What about Michelle Lynn Lujan Grisham?

    Too soon-she’s really just getting started in a bigger role here, regardless of her past service in New Mexico.

    Also betting the R’s would pull out our previous “barely qualified, half-term Governor” critique of Palin as hypocrisy. Which would be total bullshit because MLG is a million times smarter and more accomplished than Palin’s fake fingernails.

  122. 122.

    JPL

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not sure that is true.  One of the most respected in the state now is the mayor of Atlanta Keisha Bottoms .

    You might be right that she would be governor in another state though..   Watch the mayor of Atlanta though because she does have a lot of say in what happens in the state.

  123. 123.

    Mnemosyne

    @Kent:

    Michelle O would NEVER run for office. Ever. The president was only half-joking when he said that they caught her trying to flee the White House before his term was up.

    She likes doing public service because she likes people, but she HATES politics and politicians. Don’t wish that on the poor woman.

  124. 124.

    Bill Arnold

    @debbie:
    I’ve been playing spot-the-bots on the responses to that tweet, guessing from the twitter profile then using https://botsentinel.com
    Fun, and surprisingly easy to spot. (The language is often feels “dead”. It’s oft best to check the actually account and look at non-retweets to be more sure.)

  127. 127.

    Immanentize

    @Mnemosyne: She is dedicated to the necessary WORK.  Which is why she is so fabulous.  But that is not a politician’s choice.  She could have run for Damage this year. Would MLK Jr. Be a great VP choice?  Cesar Chavez? I think not. Politician is a real job. An important one! But it is different than “advocate.”

  128. 128.

    Kent

    @Mnemosyne:Sanders, on the other hand, freely admits that he doesn’t like people and never bothers to remember anyone’s birthday. This is kind of a problem when you’re trying to jolly people along and get them to agree with you.

    There is a certain New York type that is a misanthrope and just generally grumpy about being around too many folks, especially the masses.  Maybe because the city is so crowded.  Trump is like that.  So is Guiliani, Woody Allen, George Steinbrenner, Andrew Cuomo.  It is a type of old New York guy.  Just always generally grumpy about having to deal with people.   Bernie Sanders is of that same type.  You could see it when he shook Tom Steyer’s hand with the open mike at the end of the debate:  He growled “Yeah…Good” and then turned his back.  Biden would have NEVER done that.

  129. 129.

    The Dangerman

    Now, for the really important news:

    Larry Walker?

    Really?

    He goes back a few years so I could be forgetting massively but … really?

  130. 130.

    Immanentize

    @Ella in New Mexico: She is so great when speaking.  So different than that other newby Gov.  You guys are lucky.  When I was visiting at UNM, I got to meet Heather Wilson a bunch of times.  YUCK!

  133. 133.

    Gin & Tonic

    @debbie: Exactly. I’ve liked Warren for quite a while. I could vote for Joe if it came to that, but I’m afraid he’d be a “look forward, not back” kind of President and we can’t have that, not this time.

    That said, I’ll vote for the Democrat, as I always have.

  136. 136.

    Fair Economist

    @Baud: Abrams was minority leader in the GA statehouse and I’d count that as statewide office even if not directly elected. Also, too, she was cheated out of the GA governorship; she’d have won an honest election.

  140. 140.

    dr. bloor

    @The Dangerman:  Sure.  His biggest crime was spending his career in Colorado and Montreal; if he was a Yankee, he’d have been in years ago.  He’s not Gehrig, but he has no reason to apologize.

  142. 142.

    Martin

    @Mo MacArbie: I won’t begrudge him that, but I think basic federalism would argue for giving another state a turn, and that could be persuasive if the rest of the caucus doesn’t want things to grow too lopsided. I imagine Hoyer and Clyburn are bound to be in the running.

    Fuck that. Look where basic federalism has gotten us so far.

  145. 145.

    Immanentize

    @Mary G: Trump is way stupider than Theophilus Eugene Connor, who said:

    All you gotta do is tell them you’re going to bring the dogs. Look at em run. I want to see the dogs work.

    OK. That sounds exactly like Trump.

  146. 146.

    The Dangerman

    @Kent:

    No wonder I never heard of him.

    No, there is more reasons than his playing locations.

    2160 hits is … ehhh … 383 HR’s is … ehhhh (I’m not gonna dig into the Home vs. Road splits with Coors because … ehhhh) … .313 BA is respectable but … ehhhh

    He was OK. Guess they didn’t want Jeter going in alone.

  147. 147.

    Mo MacArbie

    @Martin: Perhaps, but I’ve also recently left Sacramento for another state. So plblblblblb.

    Besides, if Joe only serves one term, you can vote for President Newsom.

  149. 149.

    Another Scott

    They’re starting up again.  I’m watching on C-Span 2.

    Jeffries is up for the House.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  150. 150.

    Mnemosyne

    @JPL:

    I don’t mean respect. I mean It.

    Obama has It. Reagan had It, like it or not. JFK and FDR had It.

    I think Abrams has It, too. It has nothing to do with policy or respect. It’s, well, It.

  151. 151.

    Fair Economist

    @Martin: Hoyer will be the next Speaker. He is very popular in the caucus and has given Pelosi tough contests in the past, and he wants the job bad. Fortunately he won’t hold the post for long, since he is old.

  154. 154.

    mrmoshpotato

    I’m seeing those “You’ll never believe…!” trash ads about Barron Trump.  Sounds like the Rethuglicans need to bust out the torches and pitchforks.

  157. 157.

    taumaturgo

    @Kent: You are correct, on the other hand, a cursory review of Biden’s voting record will be disastrous in a debate with Donald. “Joe, did you or did you not vote to not allow a student to ever discharged their student debt? You and I can file for bankruptcy and receive relief, but you Joe voted for the bill and amendments to close that door shut for millions of struggling students.” By the way, you did take hundreds of thousands of dollars from banks and credit card companies, just like crooked Hillary.”Oops, Bernie is for eliminating student debt to grant a fresh start to young students. Being liked is cool, backing the policies that would actually bring relief is more important.

  158. 158.

    Mnemosyne

    @Immanentize:

    Abrams’ election was the one where her Republican opponent continued in office as the Georgia Secretary of State who runs the election process and did not recuse himself at all. I think that being suspicious that maybe the election was not honest and aboveboard when Abrams’ opponent was throwing tens of thousands of Black voters over the voting rolls is pretty sensible.

  159. 159.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Immanentize: Oh, I agree. It’s just the fact that she’s only been in office a year and she’s still in the middle of some really transformative changes here including school reform and marijuana legislation. Not a good place for us OR her to leave.

  161. 161.

    Gin & Tonic

    @taumaturgo: Bernie, you and Rand Paul were the only two Senators to vote against Magnitsky Act sanctions against Russia, twice. Why is that?

    Fuck Bernie.

  162. 162.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @taumaturgo:

    Bernie is for eliminating student debt to grant a fresh start to young students. Being liked is cool, backing the policies that would actually bring relief is more important.

    Where does backing policies that alienate substantial numbers of voters fall on your list of priorities?

  164. 164.

    West of the Rockies

    @dm:

    Speaking of hacking sort of stuff, isn’t it weird that Wikileaks hasn’t released anything bad about Trump?  It’s like they’re a right-wing organization or something.

  166. 166.

    Mnemosyne

    @taumaturgo:

    And all of the Berniebros will drool uncontrollably and cast their votes for Trump, because they’re motivated by slogans and not reality.

    Congratulations on showing once again how shallow and easily led Bernie’s fans are. Sure, Trump put kids in cages, ran up the deficit, picked a fight with Iran, and tried to destroy healthcare, but he made a zinger about Biden and credit card companies, so he has my vote!

  167. 167.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @taumaturgo:

    on the other hand, a cursory review of Biden’s voting record will be disastrous in a debate with Donald. “Joe, did you or did you not vote to not allow a student to ever discharged their student debt? You and I can file for bankruptcy and receive relief, but you Joe voted for the bill and amendments to close that door shut for millions of struggling students.”

    Dude, have you SEEN what Trump has DeVos doing to hudreds of thousands of students who already qualified for the loan forgiveness OBAMA AND BIDEN IMPLEMENTED IN THEIR ADMINISTRATION?

  169. 169.

    WaterGirl

    @Mnemosyne: When you hear Stacey Abrams describing all the shit that went down with that election, it’s obvious that there’s probably a 0% chance that the election was not literally stolen.

  175. 175.

    VOR

    @dr. bloor: Yes, the Rs will make a BFD about a minority and a woman as VP. They will scream about Identity Politics and tokenism.

    I remember in 2000 one of the BS arguments for Bush over Gore was that the Arabs would be upset if the US had a Jewish VP (Lieberman) and it would mess up the Mid-East Peace process. My response was to politely ask if we ought to let other countries have a veto on our government officials. 16 years later and they are perfectly happy letting other countries pick our government officials.

  177. 177.

    Mnemosyne

    @WaterGirl:

    Yup. A lot of that going around in states that the Republicans control; see also, Florida.

    And even if the proof never surfaces, I will go to my grave believing that Hillary’s votes in Michigan were outright switched to Jill Stein to give Trump his “victory.”

  180. 180.

    Chyron HR

    @taumaturgo:

    I understand that anybody who looks at Bernie and says “Yes, this is a divine being, I will literally worship him and obey him unquestioningly” has something seriously wrong upstairs, but nonetheless, do you guys really think getting assigned to troll random blogs by your supervisor at Our Revolution is remotely effective at getting people to vote for Bernie?

  181. 181.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense: oh.  Like Warren everywhere.  I wish that meant votes for Warren.  It might in Iowa!!  I am hopeful her retail excellence has power.

  182. 182.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Immanentize: Heh– I think she quit drinking before he did. And really quit, AFAIK, not just “only beer and wine from now on!”

    A couple of years ago, Chrissy Hynde did a tour with Stevie Nicks (who’s also in the “lucky to be alive club”, I believe), and all I could picture in my head was Chrissy stealing Stevie’s lunch money behind the venue of every show.

  185. 185.

    Immanentize

    @Mnemosyne: I get it.  A of it.  She lost.  Do you want to litigate that issue all during the coming presidential election?  I don’t.  “But, but, but….”

  188. 188.

    Kent

    @taumaturgo:@Kent: You are correct, on the other hand, a cursory review of Biden’s voting record will be disastrous in a debate with Donald. “Joe, did you or did you not vote to not allow a student to ever discharged their student debt? You and I can file for bankruptcy and receive relief, but you Joe voted for the bill and amendments to close that door shut for millions of struggling students.” By the way, you did take hundreds of thousands of dollars from banks and credit card companies, just like crooked Hillary.”Oops, Bernie is for eliminating student debt to grant a fresh start to young students. Being liked is cool, backing the policies that would actually bring relief is more important.

    Oh, get real.  Like Trump is ever going to take that line of attack in a debate.

    Biden answer:  “Yes, we were wrong back then.  We also didn’t know 25 years ago how much college costs would escalate and how unaffordable college would become for working class and middle class families.  That’s why the DEMOCRATIC party is pushing for debt relief for college students.  And that’s why the DEMOCRATIC party has a long list of proposals to make college more affordable for working class and middle class families.  All of which you Republicans have blocked.  And your own Department of Education has abandoned all of the debt relief initiatives that Barak and I put into place to help students who were defrauded by  the for-profit colleges that are supporting your campaign.  Democrats are the only party advocating for affordable college and debt relief for student borrowers.  By your own actions you have shown yourself to care more about tax breaks for billionaires and the profits of your fly-by-night for profit college cronies.  Than working class and middle class families.”

    Talk about a hanging curve ball of a debate question.

  189. 189.

    different-church-lady

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Someone needs to sit Bernie Boy down and break the news to him that he’s in danger of being completely highjacked unless he gets a hold on his campaign and his surrogates ASAP.

    After four years of this, I can no longer entertain the idea that is a case of surrogates gone wild. It’s an accurate reflection of the attitude of the campaign, and it comes from the top.

  190. 190.

    different-church-lady

    @Miss Bianca:

    “what if it was YOUR SON who raped and killed my wife? Would you then be so eager to hear me say I’d support the death penalty?”

    Or: “what if it was YOUR SON who was falsely accused and then convicted of raping and killing my wife?”

  192. 192.

    Immanentize

    @different-church-lady: But the question was even more horrible, “what if your wife was raped and killed.” I cannot express how much I hate that moment. So vicious. So inhuman. But, there it is. And we want to explain why Abrams lost an election?

  193. 193.

    chopper

    @Kent:

    my god man, that would completely *destroy* biden’s chances! only BERNIE! can possibly have a good answer to that question, by definition QED ipso facto summa cum laude etc etc.

  194. 194.

    ruemara

    @Immanentize: You are definitely not the news. A good portion of it was the cop smear and the other good portion of it was the idea that white people wouldn’t support a black woman. when you look at donations, were they wrong?

  195. 195.

    sab

    @ruemara: You have a point, but everyone was telling us that Kamala had a deep deep well of California money to dip into. So some of us who liked her thought well she doesn’t need it, so I will give elsewhere, like to my locals who might have a higher future if they can get some seed money.

    I gave to her when it was too late, to help her pay off bills.

  196. 196.

    Mnemosyne

    @Immanentize:

    I don’t think we need to relitigate it. I think we need to point out at every available opportunity that the Republicans are cheating cheaters who cheat. They can’t keep their word if their life depended on it. They can only win by cheating.

    If pointing out that they WILL cheat in this election counts as relitigating prior elections, then so be it.

  197. 197.

    Another Scott

    Wonkette’s Senate trial live blog:

    […]

    9:28: Mitch McConnell would like to do an amendment on can everybody go to bed now? Schumer says eat three dicks and go swimming in a lake of shit.

    9:30: OK what McConnell really said is can they put all the rest of the Democratic amendments in a bucket and vote on them together. Schumer, in a technical sense, said eat three dicks and go swimming in a lake of shit.

    9:32: Not only is Mitch McConnell SWEEPY TURTLE GO GRRR ARGH, he is also not happy the House impeachment managers have spent an entire “rules” day kicking ass and telling the story to the American people AND SHOW ZERO SIGNS OF STOPPING.

    9:36: Here is the choice Schumer just gave McConnell: Either we keep going tonight, or we can keep doing this tomorrow afternoon, which means the trial doesn’t start tomorrow, we just keep telling the story to America.

    Which do you like, Mitch? Shit sandwich, or shit sandwich with whipped cream?

    Give ’em Hell, Chuck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  198. 198.

    taumaturgo

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maga voters are the ones mostly suckered into believing that undeserving students don’t deserve a break, only tax cuts for the wealthy are deserving. The canceling student is not only wise economic policy, it is the right thing to do for the youth of the country.

  199. 199.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @taumaturgo: that’s great, Sparky. You go sell it to middle-aged people in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, then get back to us.

    I’m assuming you know what the electoral college is? Am I giving you too much credit?

  200. 200.

    jk

    He likes people, actual individual humans

    Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar like actual individual humans every bit as much as Biden does and I’m sure their campaigns could dig up plenty of videos comparable to this one.

  201. 201.

    taumaturgo

    @Mnemosyne: Sorry to burst your bubble, facts are what they are. BTW, Joe is vulnerable from social security and medicare cuts to his infamous and draconic mass incarceration legislation.

  202. 202.

    taumaturgo

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe, but the despair and drug scourge happening today to the folks in the middle part of the country who voted for Donald in part because of corporate democrats taking money and legislating for the benefit of the donors at the expense of the voters. Look up how much campaign contributions has Joe procured from the rich and powerful?

  203. 203.

    PJ

    @taumaturgo: None of that is going to matter if Biden is the Democratic nominee.  (BTW, Biden never pushed for cuts to Social Security and Medicare.  He talked about putting it on the table as a negotiating tactic, but he never advocated for it or signed legislation supporting it.)  He’s not my first choice, but his record is out in the open, as are his tax returns.

  204. 204.

    PJ

    @taumaturgo: Where the fuck did you come from?  Nobody voted for Donald Trump because they were concerned about Democratic candidates taking campaign contributions from rich people.  They voted for Trump because 1) they are racist and/or sexist; 2) they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for “that woman”; 3) they are extremely wealthy and were looking forward to the tax breaks; 4) they were in it for the LULZ; or 5) their brains were addled from watching 20 years of reality TV and they actually believed Trump was actually some kind of outsider, savvy businessman who had built up an empire by his bootstraps.

  208. 208.

    Mnemosyne

    @taumaturgo:

    No, I get that the Berniebros are stupid enough to vote for the guy whose Secretary of Education is being threatened with jail time for voiding student loan relief agreements that Obama’s administration arranged. Because you guys are too stupid to look past a pretty slogan to see what’s actually happening in the world.

    And remind me — is Joe’s “mass incarceration” bill the same one that Bernie voted “yea” on and then went on a victory tour about his vote? Weird how you guys are so anti mass incarceration but magically forget that Bernie voted FOR it.

  210. 210.

    CaseyL

    The Bernie Bros are really, really scared:  they’ve mounted another coordinated, enormous slander campaign on Twitter.

    5.5K tweets, and they’re all from Bernie operatives.  Flooding the twitterverse.

    I’m not giving the hashtag; if you’re curious, go take a look.  You’ll know it when you see it.

    How long before the MSM starts with its “…people are saying/people are concerned,” helping Bernie with yet another hit job?

  211. 211.

    Z

    Amazing how teflon the Biden campaign is… the selfie thing is one of the top two things Warren’s campaign is known for. There’s literally tens of thousands of equally enthusiastic moments from Warren supporters. So much that she’s gotten pushback for it being too much. Frequently for over a year these moments have genuinely gone viral. Now it happens, one time, for Biden, filmed by the New York times and pushed and pushed by Biden’s comms team on Twitter till it goes viral… but for Biden it’s a sign of his genuine appeal or whatever.

    It’s obviously a genuine moment and Biden’s obviously a likable guy… but for some reason this is maybe the clearest example of a double standard for women running for President that I’ve seen so far.

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