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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Election Year Open Thread: Joe Biden’s Gift

Election Year Open Thread: Joe Biden’s Gift

by Anne Laurie|  January 21, 20206:03 pm| 211 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss The Sanders Campaign, Open Threads

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Honored to have won Jacquelyn's endorsement. pic.twitter.com/tGpNZjXacu

— Joe Biden (Text Join to 30330) (@JoeBiden) January 20, 2020

He likes people, actual individual humans… and they like him, in response. This is rarer than seems reasonable, even among long-term successful politicians.

The contrast between Biden walking into the NYT's elevator and being told "I love you so much" by the working class African American woman in it, then getting dismissed by the NYT editorial board, is a perfect microcosm of this entire campaign. https://t.co/xF1rG5S7k0

— (((Yair Rosenberg))) (@Yair_Rosenberg) January 20, 2020

the security guard loving biden is more meaningful and informative for why he's in the position he's in than anything he says in the interview

— Matthew Zeitlin (@MattZeitlin) January 20, 2020

Biden not getting the Times endorsement (or even making the short list) is gonna make it really difficult for the Bernie Bros to argue that "the establishment" kept Bernie from getting it, but I have faith in them.

— Daily Trix (@DailyTrix) January 20, 2020

The campaign staff of Trump’s preferred opponent reacted as expected:

This is garbage from the Sanders campaign. Disagree on policy all you want, but this is a ludicrous argument about someone who has spent his life fighting for Democratic values. https://t.co/6nMbHQUy5w

— Matthew Miller (@matthewamiller) January 20, 2020

One thing, at least: Sanders has a representative who can Gish-Gallop as fluently as even Kellyanne Conway!

These are the people Bernie hires to represent him.

More than happy to launch sleazy submarine attacks on other candidates.

Floundering fools when called out to defend them.

pic.twitter.com/4v6i3vTCJC

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) January 20, 2020

Either go after Biden like a man, or don't. This is some weak shit and is getting repetitive. https://t.co/LxXXtPkvAu

— The Bearded Crank (@beardedcrank) January 21, 2020

Time to play: gaslighting or dysfunctional campaign? https://t.co/GdKJK3QjUq

— Reject Ophidiophobia (@agraybee) January 21, 2020

IONO, y'all. Big Biden got Bernie apologizing for shit now.

— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) January 21, 2020

Meanwhile, from the Biden campaign:

Dammit, Joe Biden. pic.twitter.com/PdkRgn67U4

— gregarious (@GRYKING) January 20, 2020

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Previous Post: « A Little More Bite and a Little Less Bark
Next Post: Annals Of Lawlessness »

Reader Interactions

211Comments

  1. 1.

    JMG

    January 21, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    I am a native Delawarean. You have put your finger on Biden’s political strength. Delaware’s a small place, especially at the top, and everybody likes Joe. One of my brothers still lives there, and is an attorney who does a little behind the scenes Republican politics (he’s a country club Republican, state still has those). “I hate Joe’s politics,” he said a few years ago, “but he’s a delightful guy.” In a general election against a man who urges people to embrace their inner monster, that’s a strength. Only thing is, the first election I voted in was Biden’s first Senate run in 1972. I’m 70. He’s just too old.

  2. 2.

    Panurge

    January 21, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    So who’s NOT Trump’s preferred opponent? No matter who it is, he’s going to act as if s/he is.

  3. 3.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    BS seems to have taken more than a few pages from GHWB and Atwater’s playbook.

  4. 4.

    West of the Rockies

    January 21, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    I now think it will be Joe.  I hope he selects an excellent VP.

  5. 5.

    Brachiator

    January 21, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    He likes people, actual individual humans… and they like him, in response. This is rarer than seems reasonable, even among long-term successful politicians.

    This is why Trump fears Biden and tried so hard to smear him.

  6. 6.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:13 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Biden ought to start talking about Trump’s unlikability. That’d really drive him over the edge!

  7. 7.

    Anne Laurie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:15 pm

    @West of the Rockies: I hope he selects an excellent VP.

    You are not alone!  Assuming he *is* our candidate, picking a younger woman and/or person of color would ease a lot of dedicated Dems’ secret fears.

  8. 8.

    West of the Rockies

    January 21, 2020 at 6:15 pm

    @debbie:

    That’s not a bad suggestion.

  9. 9.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2020 at 6:15 pm

    I have a sibling adroit at throwing out a verbal poison dart then “withdrawing” it with a “never mind.” That’s what Wilmer just did here.

    Biden ad is really good. Retail politics is certainly one of his strengths.

  10. 10.

    hells littlest angel

    January 21, 2020 at 6:16 pm

    I’ve gone from hoping Warren wins to hoping Biden picks Harris as his running mate. And I’m okay with that.

  11. 11.

    West of the Rockies

    January 21, 2020 at 6:16 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    I think we have a BINGO!  Perhaps Kamala?

  12. 12.

    Emerald

    January 21, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @JMG: Yes, he is too old, but right now I think we need the old pro politician who knows how the government works and might be able to put it back together again. Plus, as Obama’s VP, Joe is by far the best to repair our relations with our allies and regain at least some of our standing in the world.

    Plus, I don’t care about policy this time. We’re trying to save democracy. If we succeed, then we can worry about policy again.

    I expected Joe to gaff himself into oblivion by this time, but he hasn’t. I think old Joe’s gonna go all the way, and at this point that’s fine with me.

  13. 13.

    Mike in DC

    January 21, 2020 at 6:19 pm

    At this rate I think Sanders will drop out of my top 5 candidates soon. He’s around 5th right now. I have Warren first, then Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Biden. But I am coming around a bit on Biden. He is likely to disappoint me on many things, but I hope that he will deliver at least 3 decent policy initiatives as president. The biggest disappointment is likely to be a failure to hold the 45 administration accountable for the crimes that it has committed.

  14. 14.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2020 at 6:19 pm

    @debbie: This is not true, Trump loves the uneducated. //

  15. 15.

    Anne Laurie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:20 pm

    @debbie: Biden ought to start talking about Trump’s unlikability. That’d really drive him over the edge!

    Even better, Biden should — will! — talk about how Donald Trump just doesn’t like other people.  He has no friends, he despises his own kids (other than the one he has vulgar fantasies about), and he had to buy a mail-order bride.   He hangs around his golf clubs, bragging about his imaginary accomplishments, trying to get strangers to admire him. Imagine the investigative safaris to find someone that isn’t looking for a favor from him who has a kind word for the man.

  16. 16.

    lamh36

    January 21, 2020 at 6:20 pm

    I’m gonna look forward to the thread from Adams S after I get out of class today !

     

    BREAKING: The Russian government Gazprombank deposited over half a billion dollars into a Deutsche Bank subsidiary as the subsidiary lent to Trump, according to confidential documents obtained by @forensicnewsnet. forensicnews.net/2020/01/13/rus… #TrumpDeutscheBankLoans

    https://twitter.com/scottmstedman/status/1219743979450834950?s=21

  17. 17.

    zhena gogolia

    January 21, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @hells littlest angel: 
    Harris was my favorite, but I’m where you are now.

  18. 18.

    opiejeanne

    January 21, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @Emerald: I have come around to Biden. I hope he chooses Kamala Harris as his VP.

  19. 19.

    Randolf Hurts

    January 21, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @Emerald: Plus, I don’t care about policy this time.

    Cool. Why should policy matter?

  20. 20.

    opiejeanne

    January 21, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Harris was mine as well. I was so disappointed when she dropped out.

  21. 21.

    zhena gogolia

    January 21, 2020 at 6:22 pm

    But I also want Adam Schiff for Emperor!

  22. 22.

    GaryK

    January 21, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    @hells littlest angel: You spoke my very thoughts. And one reason I’m OK with it is that I can see what our most valuable and honored political allies (such as the audience in the video) really want him.

  23. 23.

    Yutsano

    January 21, 2020 at 6:24 pm

    @opiejeanne: Kamala or Stacy Abrams. Either one would make me quite happy.

  24. 24.

    opiejeanne

    January 21, 2020 at 6:25 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I’d vote for Schiff for president in a heartbeat.

  25. 25.

    Anne Laurie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:25 pm

    @West of the Rockies: Perhaps Kamala?

    In my wildest fantasies!  “Play nice with Joe, Repubs.  You don’t want Kamala to treat you like she did Jeff Sessions, do ya?”

  26. 26.

    MattF

    January 21, 2020 at 6:26 pm

    Seems to me that the primary campaign is performing its function by revealing that Sanders is yet-another-asshole. We’ve already got one of those in the White House. It’s not what I want.

  27. 27.

    sdhays

    January 21, 2020 at 6:26 pm

    @West of the Rockies: I’m surprising myself in saying that with Kamala having left the race, I find myself drifting towards Biden. I really like Warren, so my mind isn’t made up. But, man, if I knew Kamala was going to be the VP candidate, I wouldn’t have any questions on who I was going to support.

  28. 28.

    zhena gogolia

    January 21, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    @sdhays:

    I think they’d be a great team. And just imagine her debating Pence!

  29. 29.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    I trust you saw the clip of Trump referring to rotten, spoiled brats when speaking to farmers? That had to hurt Eric.

  30. 30.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    @opiejeanne: I’m with y’all.

  31. 31.

    zhena gogolia

    January 21, 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Adam Schiff deserves an award for not just screaming "WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU LYING TRAITORS?!" into the mic for 60 mins straight.— Jon Zal (@OfficialJonZal) January 21, 2020

  32. 32.

    Nelle

    January 21, 2020 at 6:30 pm

    The wind chill is up to zero today and campaign workers back out door to door in Iowa.   I’m rather impressed.

  33. 33.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 21, 2020 at 6:31 pm

    @zhena gogolia: In fairness, Schiff does represent a portion of Hollywood, ACTING!

  34. 34.

    zhena gogolia

    January 21, 2020 at 6:31 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    He is a superb actor. He has such great control of his voice.

  35. 35.

    Miss Bianca

    January 21, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @Emerald: Yeah, you know, I love Warren and when push comes to shove I will probably vote for her in the primary, but I am coming round to your way of thinking about Biden.

    And damn, has he been doing some great ads.

    And yeah…nice to see Sanders *finally* getting some real pushback in the media. I’ve been sick and damn tired of his smear jobs by proxy ever since 2015, and the gaslighting that comes with it. Here’s hoping he goes down to an even more ignominious defeat than in ’16 to either Warren *or* Biden, and pisses off forever to his dacha on the shores of Lake Champlain.

  36. 36.

    JMG

    January 21, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    @Emerald: Don’t get me wrong. I will happily support Biden. I just wish he wasn’t older than septuagenerian me, so I prefer Warren. I have little doubt he will pick Harris or maybe but probably not Stacey Abrams as his VP if nominated. He’s an old pro, and he knows that kind of balance was how HE got to be VP.

  37. 37.

    West of the Rockies

    January 21, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    I think the “I Actually Like Trump” would go like this:

    Camera pans through the crowd at. Jersey strip club, settles on a group of aging men.

    “My name is Tony the Weasel, and I’ve known Donnie fuhevah.  He’s aces in my book.”

    “I’m Frankie the Rat, and Donnie is my pal.  Yeah, we also go way back, and–hey… Is that a fuckin’ camera?  Get that outta my face!  My wife can’t see me here!”

  38. 38.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:34 pm

    @Miss Bianca:

    I got myself to vote for Dukakis and Mondale; I suppose I could do the same for Biden.

  39. 39.

    Omnes Omnibus

    January 21, 2020 at 6:35 pm

    Biden brings two important things to the race.  As noted here, he genuinely likes people and they respond to that.  And he, in contrast to Trump, radiates decency.  We could use some of both of those things.

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    January 21, 2020 at 6:37 pm

    That video from The Times along with Biden’s ad sums up why he is doing well with Black voters. Jacqueline acted towards him the way the folks that I work with feel about Uncle Joe.And, that ad was pitch perfect as well as the truth.

  41. 41.

    Omnes Omnibus

    January 21, 2020 at 6:39 pm

    Does someone have a link to the ad?  I’m getting a can’t be played message.

  42. 42.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    I didn’t want Biden to enter the race but he did.  If he wants Hillary as VP that would be fine with me.   Let trump prove his shit isn’t gold plated.

  43. 43.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    I sat in chamber for entire Schiff speech. That was a mauling. Trump team thought they were there to debate process and Schiff ambushed them with a full-throated case for impeachment. Republicans were visibly uncomfortable. Sekulow & Cippolone responses were rambling & bombastic
    — Jon Ward (@jonward11) January 21, 2020

  44. 44.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 6:43 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I wish he would so the MSM would take notice of the travesty that is happening to our democracy.

  45. 45.

    ThresherK

    January 21, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    If only that working-class black woman and that security guard were in a diner in East Nosepick, Penntucksconsigan. Maybe the NYT would listen to them then.

  46. 46.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:45 pm

    Shouldn’t this warrant imprisonment?

    At least 8 senators had Apple Watches strapped on their wrists in the chamber at the start of the impeachment trial Tuesday, despite guidelines from Senate leadership that all electronics should be left in the cloakroom in the provided storage. https://t.co/OVVg9T3p9S
    — K Tully-McManus (@ktullymcmanus) January 21, 2020

  47. 47.

    Martin

    January 21, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    This is fine.

    The Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos had his mobile phone “hacked” in 2018 after receiving a WhatsApp message that had apparently been sent from the personal account of the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, sources have told the Guardian.

    The encrypted message from the number used by Mohammed bin Salman is believed to have included a malicious file that infiltrated the phone of the world’s richest man, according to the results of a digital forensic analysis.

    This analysis found it “highly probable” that the intrusion into the phone was triggered by an infected video file sent from the account of the Saudi heir to Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post.

  48. 48.

    kindness

    January 21, 2020 at 6:49 pm

    I LIKE Joe Biden.  He just isn’t my first choice.  I don’t really like Bernie but don’t hate the guy.  I don’t really hate anyone.  Loathe?  Yea….long list.  That’s different though.

    I’ll happily vote for either of the old guys if they are nominated.  I’d more happily vote for the just as old (almost) lady as I really like Warren.

  49. 49.

    VeniceRiley

    January 21, 2020 at 6:50 pm

    My list is fast approaching an Amy on top.  But I’d still take Elizabeth. I wish Wilmer supporters would switch to her, as she would be acceptable to most of us … whereas he clearly is not

  50. 50.

    clay

    January 21, 2020 at 6:50 pm

    @debbie: That’s what happens when you bring clowns to a lawyer fight.

  51. 51.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 6:51 pm

    If it is Biden, he almost has to pick Harris, doesn’t he? I think she’d be taking one for the team if she agreed to it. I think the world of Stacey Abrams, and maybe her star-power can overcome her brief resume, but Harris is probably the safer choice

  52. 52.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 6:51 pm

    A Biden – Harris ticket I’m fine with.

    Schiff is the obvious choice for the next Speaker of the House when (and only when) Nancy decides it is finally time to hang up her stilettos.

  53. 53.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 6:53 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  I think a younger woman is the obvious choice.   Harris is not the only one.  Tammy Duckworth would be an interesting choice.  I’m sure there are others.

  54. 54.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    And yet, I still want Warren. None of this moving on crap, please.

    NEW: Elizabeth Warren just announced plans for an independent DoJ task force to investigate and prosecute Trump administration crimes. This is such a big deal. https://t.co/l4OgsOPsiw
    — Angus Johnston (@studentactivism) January 21, 2020

  55. 55.

    guachi

    January 21, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    I saw someone else write something along the lines of: Biden has lost a step but he hasn’t lost his basic decency. Trump has lost a step and hasn’t lost his basic indecency.

  56. 56.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 6:56 pm

    @debbie:  Unless I miss my guess, Schiff has to be the obvious front-runner for next Speaker of the House.

  57. 57.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 6:56 pm

    is there a schedule for these  hearings posted anywhere ? I thought I heard the Tortoise burp something about a dinner break.

  58. 58.

    Gvg

    January 21, 2020 at 6:56 pm

    @opiejeanne: yeah, I wanted a woman or minority and was disappointed when the white men took the lead, but it’s crossed my mind a few times that Schiff could have been my preferred candidate. I appreciate him so much.
    Biden liking people is a real point though. Now the real question about any President, but especially after Trump is who all his appointments would be. Not just VP….how about Secretary of State and Defense? It’s considered presumptuous to say now but IMO that is how you know the most about an administration. We have such a mess to clean up.

  59. 59.

    Miss Bianca

    January 21, 2020 at 6:58 pm

    @debbie: I would vote for Biden with one hell of a lot more brio than I did for either Mondale or Dukakis.

     

    And only partly because, unlike with them, I would be feeling pretty sure he’d win.

  60. 60.

    Chyron HR

    January 21, 2020 at 6:58 pm

    And yet the Bro freakshow will lecture us on all day long about why we must kneel before Bernie (the “and suck it” is merely implied).

  61. 61.

    Ella in New Mexico

    January 21, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    If I were allowed to vote before June 2, 2020 I’d be supporting someone else who may likely be gone by my actual state primary date. But Biden is a good and decent human being, and he actually does have the character and skills to be a great President, and will be if he’s elected. His humanity is undeniable and people are ready for that.

    It’s important that no matter who we support, we recognize that a semblance of these set traits are going to be a huge characteristic people voting for the Democrat in November will be looking for in the candidate, regardless of who we nominate. People in the country need to feel they’re voting for something–someone– that will be a  part in the cleansing of the ugliness of Trump and the Republican Cabal, or many simply believe the “both sides are the same” narrative coming out of the GRU and stay home. Good news for us: We have quite a few options when it comes to decency and genuineness.

    In contrast to other Democrats running, I do think Sanders has a pretty crappy campaign staff who do not really serve him well. He lets far too many people both officially in and out of it “speak on his behalf” when they’re just pushing their own agenda through his candidacy. Someone needs to sit Bernie Boy down and break the news to him that he’s in danger of being completely highjacked unless he gets a hold on his campaign and his surrogates ASAP. “No more of this “sorry that op ed was released” crap. You’re the candidate–you’re supposed to inspire confidence in your ability to take over a broken, dysfunctional Executive Branch and you can’t even stop this kind of shit from happening? Who’s the fuck’s in charge here, Bernie?”

    Maybe his more reasonable supporters can start sending that message through social media or email soon. I remember realizing in early April 2016 he had changed from “inspiring progressive voice” to “pool shitter and losing refusnik ” and did just that, and I think so did a lot of others. It’s even more important he hears that now.

  62. 62.

    debbie

    January 21, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    @Kent:

    Tim Ryan will have a very big sad then.

  63. 63.

    PJ

    January 21, 2020 at 7:02 pm

    @Kent: When Diane Feinstein finally moves on, or if Harris becomes VP, Schiff should run for CA Senate.

  64. 64.

    dr. bloor

    January 21, 2020 at 7:02 pm

    @debbie:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not to be That Guy, although I invariable am, but I wonder what the calculus is among his advisors in terms of gender and race in his choice, and frankly worry that “Black” AND “woman” might be a bridge too far for them.  If he wins, his VP has measurable odds of serving out a term in the Oval Office, and the R’s will make a BFD out of that where it counts.

    Parenthetically, I’d be a little disappointed to see Harris on the ticket, as she’s a badass senator.

  65. 65.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 7:02 pm

    Elaina Plott @ elainaplott
    “Risch was the first lawmaker seen by Washington Post reporters to clearly have fallen asleep, about four hours after the trial proceedings began Tuesday.”

    My money was on Shelby. He looked like Monty Burns older Southern cousin in the Sunday show clips floating around a couple days ago.

  66. 66.

    Duane

    January 21, 2020 at 7:03 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Biden has personality. We’ve all known people who never met a stranger. My mom was like that. Next thing you know, they’re having lunch and exchanging Christmas cards.

  67. 67.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 7:04 pm

    @Duane: I am the opposite of that

  68. 68.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 7:04 pm

    @debbie: I have no idea who the heck John Ward is, but I am happy to read that take, whoever he is.

  69. 69.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 7:05 pm

    @debbie: They need to name names and the party of all who did that.

  70. 70.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 7:06 pm

    @VeniceRiley: Amy is at the very bottom of my list of all the real Democratic candidates.  Tulsi and Bernie excluded.

  71. 71.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 7:06 pm

    @debbie: Schiff has been a revelation for me.  He speaks with a level of conviction, gravitas, and integrity that I haven’t seen since Peak Obama.  And he has shown himself to be smart as hell and tough as nails.   I can think of no one else better suited to herding cats and negotiating with future Senates and future White Houses.

  72. 72.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 7:07 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think Stacey Abrams would be the safer choice.  Times 10.  Every statistic I saw said that she had very little support from black people.  I have to think the opposite would be true for Stacey Abrams.

    I think Joe and Stacey Abrams is the strongest option we’ve got.  I was totally pissed that Joe entered the race, even though I have always liked him.  (Yes, he has flaws.)

    But we need to win, at all costs, and I think that combination gets us there.

  73. 73.

    Frankensteinbeck

    January 21, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    That last video impressed me, although I leave it to actual African-Americans to tell me if it moves them.  I see @rikyrah approves.

  74. 74.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    @Chyron HR: well  there is something one can say about that..

    f..kem

  75. 75.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 7:11 pm

    @dr. bloor: I see “black and woman” as the strongest possible option for VP.

  76. 76.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    @WaterGirl:

     I was totally pissed that Joe entered the race, even though I have always liked him.  (Yes, he has flaws.)

    that’s where I started out, and now I’ve got one foot in Joe’s camp. I like Warren, but I think she’s still spending too much time (figuratively) on twitter. Amy The K was too slow out of the gate and I don’t think she can catch up now.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    @WaterGirl: I don’t know.   Before voting for Abrams, I voted for EVans in the primary.  She had the more compelling story and polled ahead of all the republicans.   Abrams was middle class and Evans wasn’t but for some reason the kos folks attacked her.  Stacy Evans is running for a state seat again and I hope she wins and runs for a higher state office.

  78. 78.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    why Harris as VP??  Those keeping score know I am Harris first, Warren second, Castro third.  Oh well, I clearly sucksuck at  at prognostication.  Is this a White Folks like any black person like them the issue?  She was NOT catching fire in the AA community.  Or POC community.  Lots of reasons for that which I have discussed before. What State does she help with? California? From what I hear from my friends, the lack of excitement about Harris is not policy but personal.  Second, Stacy Abrams is Buttigieg.  Never won state office.  So, more deeper thinking less tokenism, K?

  79. 79.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 21, 2020 at 7:14 pm

    Biden will be a perfectly cromulent President. Very curious to see who he picks as VP for obvious reasons, like the rest of you.

  80. 80.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2020 at 7:14 pm

    @Kent:

    Can I stipulate that Nancy must leave a stiletto in a Certain Somebody on her way out the door?

    “Aaand, that’s a wrap.”

  81. 81.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 7:15 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    She’s probably more popular but it would raise the issue of the Veep for an old president not ever having been elected (unjustly) to even state wide office.  It’s one of the critiques of people who oppose Pete.

  82. 82.

    Captain C

    January 21, 2020 at 7:15 pm

    @JPL:  I think a nontrivial percentage of them are fine with it, as long as they’re not directly affected (except for getting their tax cuts, if they qualify).

  83. 83.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:15 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Both those guys, Mondale and Dukakis, are such deeply good humans.  If you like Carter now, both those fellows are like him.  But, the tank and all for Dukakis. ..

  84. 84.

    dr. bloor

    January 21, 2020 at 7:16 pm

    @WaterGirl: You are not a white male voter in a swing state. (That’s a complement, by the way).

  85. 85.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:17 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think Biden has to pick a woman.  Period.  Race or ethnicity is second to that concern

  86. 86.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 7:17 pm

    @JPL: Geography puts you more in the know on that than I am.  But I find Stacey Abrams very impressive, and to me she has that “it” factor that can’t be easily defined.  Plus, she’s smart as a whip, very genuine, and can think on her feet.

    I could get excited about Stacey Abrams.

  87. 87.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 7:17 pm

    @Immanentize: lol See my comment about Abrams above yours.  I’m glad she is out there raising awareness for voting rights and I plan to support that effort.

  88. 88.

    Mo MacArbie

    January 21, 2020 at 7:18 pm

    Bravo to Schiff, but I don’t see following one California speaker with another, even if they are a fifth of the caucus.

  89. 89.

    trollhattan

    January 21, 2020 at 7:20 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Abrams came within a whisker of winning governor in a difficult Southern state and IIUC was basically cheated out of it. She was charming and effective in the thankless SOTU response and is currently out working hard for the party. Demonstrated accomplishment far beyond Mayor Pete. Token? Hardly. Future rock star.

    ETA I don’t think she wants VP.

  90. 90.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 7:20 pm

    @Baud: I don’t really care about the statewide experience (sorry) and I believe she does have administrative experience, which counts for a lot.

    Look what she’s doing with her Fair Fight organization.  That’s a big deal to me.

    Conventional wisdom used to be that your odds for the presidency weren’t all that great if you were from the House or the Senate,.

    Also, people hold stuff against people they don’t like that they would never care about for people you like AND trust.

  91. 91.

    Martin

    January 21, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    @Mo MacArbie: Why not? We have minority leader as well (unfortunately).

  92. 92.

    dm

    January 21, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    MBS sent Jeff Bezos a WhatsApp message that seems to have hacked his phone, leading to the export of lots of sensitive data:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jan/21/amazon-boss-jeff-bezoss-phone-hacked-by-saudi-crown-prince

    (A reminder of some background, if anyone needs it: Bezos owns the Washington Post, which employed Jamal Kashoggi before MBS had Kashoggi killed; texts between Bezos’ and his mistress were leaked, leading to Bezos’ divorce.)

    I wonder what’s on Jared’s phone.  I wonder if MBS ever WhatsApped the Security-Risk-in-Chief’s phone.  I wonder what form Xi Jinping’s hackers use for their phone hacks.

  93. 93.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 7:22 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    I wouldn’t care either, but I assume that issue will debated as part of the vetting process.

  94. 94.

    MomSense

    January 21, 2020 at 7:24 pm

    @ThresherK:

    That made me LOL and get weird looks from the people seated around me.  Waiting for the symphony concert to start.

  95. 95.

    dm

    January 21, 2020 at 7:24 pm

    Jeff Bezos’ phone hacked by WhatsApp message from MBS?

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jan/21/amazon-boss-jeff-bezoss-phone-hacked-by-saudi-crown-prince

    I wonder what’s on pen-pal Jared’s phone?  I wonder what’s on the Security-Risk-in-Chief’s phone?  I wonder what form Xi Jinping’s hackers use for their exploit?  Putin’s?

  96. 96.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 7:24 pm

    @WaterGirl: Both Stacy’s are smart, but Evans grew up dirt poor and by that I mean evicted from one trailer to another and managed to graduate with a Law Degree from GA.  She’s running for another seat in the state, and I hate to sound ugly but Abrams has already said that’s not her thing.  If we are going to flip GA, it is going to be from the ground up.  I lost all respect for Kos when they booed EVans at their event.  Now Abrams did reach across the aisle to work with the assholes more than EVans though, she had that.

  97. 97.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 7:25 pm

    Whoever our nominee chooses as his or her running mate, it will be a stab in the back.

  98. 98.

    dr. bloor

    January 21, 2020 at 7:26 pm

    @Baud:

    You should change your nym to “Chuck Todd Whisperer.”

  99. 99.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:27 pm

    @Baud: so sad.  But true.
    What about Michelle Lynn Lujan Grisham?

  100. 100.

    MomSense

    January 21, 2020 at 7:31 pm

    @Immanentize:

    My understanding of the situation, was that black women were waiting to see how she did in Iowa. They don’t have faith in white people’s willingness to vote for a black woman.  She was leading in second choice in Iowa and SC.

  101. 101.

    Mo MacArbie

    January 21, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    @Martin: I won’t begrudge him that, but I think basic federalism would argue for giving another state a turn, and that could be persuasive if the rest of the caucus doesn’t want things to grow too lopsided. I imagine Hoyer and Clyburn are bound to be in the running.

  102. 102.

    Miss Bianca

    January 21, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    @Immanentize: I ended up feeling so sorry for Dukakis, who seemed like not only a decent human being but also a decent governor. But the media decided he wasn’t one of the Kool Kisz fairly early on. I’ll never forget that asshole who asked him if he’d support the death penalty for someone who raped and killed his wife. I would have given anything for him to turn that around with, “what if it was YOUR SON who raped and killed my wife? Would you then be so eager to hear me say I’d support the death penalty?”

  103. 103.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    @trollhattan: I think “loser of state wide race” is the operative factor.  Why not Holder? Or Lynch?  If we are just cruising black folks?  I love Abrams, and so many others I am dedicated to diversity in this choice and I see the problems with the “any black person we dig” strategy.

  104. 104.

    The Dangerman

    January 21, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    @debbie:

    Elizabeth Warren just announced plans for an independent DoJ task force to investigate and prosecute Trump administration crimes.

    That sounds perfectly Vice Presidential to me. Biden/Warren?

    Tell Trump there is a Warren out for his arrest and hope he strokes out.

  105. 105.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 7:35 pm

    @Immanentize:why Harris as VP??  Those keeping score know I am Harris first, Warren second, Castro third.  Oh well, I clearly sucksuck at  at prognostication.  Is this a White Folks like any black person like them the issue?  She was NOT catching fire in the AA community.  Or POC community.  Lots of reasons for that which I have discussed before. What State does she help with? California? From what I hear from my friends, the lack of excitement about Harris is not policy but personal.  Second, Stacy Abrams is Buttigieg.  Never won state office.  So, more deeper thinking less tokenism, K?

     

    In an alternate world were Obama was never president and we have the 2008 Obama running today against Biden under today’s conditions. I don’t think he gets widespread black support to start the campaign either. Same as Harris and Booker.  A 1-term Senator with a funny name and not from a traditional AA background?

    I haven’t lived through CA under Harris so I really don’t know. But from what little I saw of her on the national stage in the Senate, and in the early campaign I thought she definitely has what it takes. If Biden is the nominee I think she is definitely in the conversation along with Abrams, Klobuchar, Warren and maybe one of the governors (just not Kate Brown from OR please).

    And here is a real wild-card for VP: Michelle Obama. The Obama girls are both out of the house and she is tanned and rested.  You wanna talk about a pair of running mates with people skills and star power?   Someone who can get the black vote out in every state?

  106. 106.

    dr. bloor

    January 21, 2020 at 7:35 pm

    @Mo MacArbie:

    Rather see him shoot for the Senate–it’s not clear he has the skill set for the Speakership, and some of his best attributes would be muted by the demands of the position.

  107. 107.

    Tom Levenson

    January 21, 2020 at 7:39 pm

    @debbie: You should never feel bad about voting for Mike Dukakis. He was, alas, a less than persuasive national candidate. But I’ve got to know him just a little w/in Brookline politics (in which he’s still active!) and he is a genuinely good man with a commitment to government as a mechanism for human betterment.

    I feel proud of my votes for him at the state level and the national; he’s just a mensch.

  108. 108.

    MoxieM

    January 21, 2020 at 7:40 pm

    Biden wouldn’t be my first choice (Sen. Prof. Warren), but I will note that Dr. Mrs. Biden would most likely bring good stuff to the FLOTUS role, having been teaching (remedial, I think) English at Community College for some time. Imagine! A real live education advocate floating around the halls of 1600 PA Ave.

  109. 109.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 7:41 pm

    @Tom Levenson:  wasn’t there a viral video of him a couple of years ago, picking up trash while he waited for a bus or a train?

  110. 110.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:41 pm

    @MomSense: I don’t think she was ever second in SC. Ever

    Her trouble comes not from “Kamala is a cop” although Bernie did some damage with that. Rather: First her marriage to a white guy. Second (as a deep corollary to the first) her mixed heritage.

    Don’t flame me. I am the runner, not the news.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    I would say that Obama has that similar quality of enjoying talking to ordinary people. He always seemed to have way more fun visiting factories and science fairs than going to events full of politicians. That may be one of the reasons he and Joe get along so well.

    Sanders, on the other hand, freely admits that he doesn’t like people and never bothers to remember anyone’s birthday. This is kind of a problem when you’re trying to jolly people along and get them to agree with you.

  112. 112.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    @Tom Levenson:

    Every prominent Dem gets trashed. We need to figure out how to break that cycle.

  113. 113.

    Omnes Omnibus

    January 21, 2020 at 7:43 pm

    @dr. bloor: People find a politician that they like and they want to fit the person into every other job that may open up.

  114. 114.

    gene108

    January 21, 2020 at 7:44 pm

    Watched a bit of the Senate show-trial.

    I think Trump bringing in a lawyer, as capable as Sekulow for his defense is overkill.

    The fix is in.

    Trump could’ve gone with a couple of chimps defending him, and result would be the same.

    The Senate acquits 53-47.

  115. 115.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:46 pm

    @Tom Levenson: me too.  I have been able to really get some great personal interactions with Mike — mostly at N.U. (I’m a Husky) but also on the green line.  ?

  116. 116.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 7:46 pm

    @Immanentize:@trollhattan: I think “loser of state wide race” is the operative factor.  Why not Holder? Or Lynch?  If we are just cruising black folks?  I love Abrams, and so many others I am dedicated to diversity in this choice and I see the problems with the “any black person we dig” strategy.

    If the future of the country is at stake with this election and we can’t afford to leave anything to chance.  Then how about Michelle Obama for VP?  Send her to Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Charlotte to get out the black vote and every other vote.  If there is anyone in this country with better people skills than Joe Biden it is Michelle Obama.   And if we want to repair our standing around the world, who better to send around the world in state visits than VP than Michelle and 2nd Gentleman Barak?

  117. 117.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 7:46 pm

    @Immanentize:

    I’ve seen Abrams speak on teevee and whatever “It” is in political terms, she’s got It. It’s a shame that she’s dedicated to her racist, sexist home state, because if she lived someplace like New York or California, she’d be a second-term governor by now.

  118. 118.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 7:46 pm

    @Tom Levenson: I still like him.

  119. 119.

    Omnes Omnibus

    January 21, 2020 at 7:47 pm

    @Kent: Wanking again.

  120. 120.

    Ella in New Mexico

    January 21, 2020 at 7:48 pm

    @Immanentize:

    What about Michelle Lynn Lujan Grisham?

    Too soon-she’s really just getting started in a bigger role here, regardless of her past service in New Mexico.

    Also betting the R’s would pull out our previous “barely qualified, half-term Governor” critique of Palin as hypocrisy. Which would be total bullshit because MLG is a million times smarter and more accomplished than Palin’s fake fingernails.

  121. 121.

    chopper

    January 21, 2020 at 7:48 pm

    @Baud:

    *especially* if it’s fucking baud. that guy.

  122. 122.

    JPL

    January 21, 2020 at 7:48 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not sure that is true.  One of the most respected in the state now is the mayor of Atlanta Keisha Bottoms .

    You might be right that she would be governor in another state though..   Watch the mayor of Atlanta though because she does have a lot of say in what happens in the state.

  123. 123.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 7:49 pm

    @Kent:

    Michelle O would NEVER run for office. Ever. The president was only half-joking when he said that they caught her trying to flee the White House before his term was up.

    She likes doing public service because she likes people, but she HATES politics and politicians. Don’t wish that on the poor woman.

  124. 124.

    Bill Arnold

    January 21, 2020 at 7:50 pm

    @debbie:
    I’ve been playing spot-the-bots on the responses to that tweet, guessing from the twitter profile then using https://botsentinel.com
    Fun, and surprisingly easy to spot. (The language is often feels “dead”. It’s oft best to check the actually account and look at non-retweets to be more sure.)

  125. 125.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 7:51 pm

    @chopper:

    Baud!/Baud! 2020!

  126. 126.

    Ella in New Mexico

    January 21, 2020 at 7:51 pm

    @dr. bloor:

    Rather see him shoot for the Senate

    When the hell is DiFi leaving BTW?

  127. 127.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    @Mnemosyne: She is dedicated to the necessary WORK.  Which is why she is so fabulous.  But that is not a politician’s choice.  She could have run for Damage this year. Would MLK Jr. Be a great VP choice?  Cesar Chavez? I think not. Politician is a real job. An important one! But it is different than “advocate.”

  128. 128.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 7:53 pm

    @Mnemosyne:Sanders, on the other hand, freely admits that he doesn’t like people and never bothers to remember anyone’s birthday. This is kind of a problem when you’re trying to jolly people along and get them to agree with you.

    There is a certain New York type that is a misanthrope and just generally grumpy about being around too many folks, especially the masses.  Maybe because the city is so crowded.  Trump is like that.  So is Guiliani, Woody Allen, George Steinbrenner, Andrew Cuomo.  It is a type of old New York guy.  Just always generally grumpy about having to deal with people.   Bernie Sanders is of that same type.  You could see it when he shook Tom Steyer’s hand with the open mike at the end of the debate:  He growled “Yeah…Good” and then turned his back.  Biden would have NEVER done that.

  129. 129.

    The Dangerman

    January 21, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    Now, for the really important news:

    Larry Walker?

    Really?

    He goes back a few years so I could be forgetting massively but … really?

  130. 130.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: She is so great when speaking.  So different than that other newby Gov.  You guys are lucky.  When I was visiting at UNM, I got to meet Heather Wilson a bunch of times.  YUCK!

  131. 131.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: What else is this blog for?

  132. 132.

    dr. bloor

    January 21, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: I was about to say she’s the Keith Richards of the Senate, but she’s probably got a lot of competition in that regard, no?

  133. 133.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 21, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    @debbie: Exactly. I’ve liked Warren for quite a while. I could vote for Joe if it came to that, but I’m afraid he’d be a “look forward, not back” kind of President and we can’t have that, not this time.

    That said, I’ll vote for the Democrat, as I always have.

  134. 134.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I can vouch for this knowing her teachers and friends at HLS.  NOT.GON.HAP.EN

  135. 135.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 7:57 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    During his 17-year career, he played for the Montreal Expos, Colorado Rockies, and St. Louis Cardinals. Wikipedia

    No wonder I never heard of him.

  136. 136.

    Fair Economist

    January 21, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    @Baud: Abrams was minority leader in the GA statehouse and I’d count that as statewide office even if not directly elected. Also, too, she was cheated out of the GA governorship; she’d have won an honest election.

  137. 137.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: When the time comes. But, you know, don’t fear the reaper

  138. 138.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    That’s why I said “unjustly.”

  139. 139.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 8:01 pm

    @Fair Economist: Are you unskewing  elections now?  We can’t live (or win) that way.

  140. 140.

    dr. bloor

    January 21, 2020 at 8:01 pm

    @The Dangerman:  Sure.  His biggest crime was spending his career in Colorado and Montreal; if he was a Yankee, he’d have been in years ago.  He’s not Gehrig, but he has no reason to apologize.

  141. 141.

    Mary G

    January 21, 2020 at 8:02 pm

    That Biden ad gave me all the feels. Donald Trump as Bull Connor is spot on.

  142. 142.

    Martin

    January 21, 2020 at 8:02 pm

    @Mo MacArbie: I won’t begrudge him that, but I think basic federalism would argue for giving another state a turn, and that could be persuasive if the rest of the caucus doesn’t want things to grow too lopsided. I imagine Hoyer and Clyburn are bound to be in the running.

    Fuck that. Look where basic federalism has gotten us so far.

  143. 143.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 8:04 pm

    @Mary G:

    His ads are excellent.

  144. 144.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @Martin: Not sure why, but you were in spam.

  145. 145.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @Mary G: Trump is way stupider than Theophilus Eugene Connor, who said:

    All you gotta do is tell them you’re going to bring the dogs. Look at em run. I want to see the dogs work.

    OK. That sounds exactly like Trump.

  146. 146.

    The Dangerman

    January 21, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @Kent:

    No wonder I never heard of him.

    No, there is more reasons than his playing locations.

    2160 hits is … ehhh … 383 HR’s is … ehhhh (I’m not gonna dig into the Home vs. Road splits with Coors because … ehhhh) … .313 BA is respectable but … ehhhh

    He was OK. Guess they didn’t want Jeter going in alone.

  147. 147.

    Mo MacArbie

    January 21, 2020 at 8:09 pm

    @Martin: Perhaps, but I’ve also recently left Sacramento for another state. So plblblblblb.

    Besides, if Joe only serves one term, you can vote for President Newsom.

  148. 148.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 8:14 pm

    that empty bag on the floor? she used to keep her fucks in it

    Hillary Clinton‏Verified account @HillaryClinton 1h1 hour ago

    I thought everyone wanted my authentic, unvarnished views!

    But to be serious, the number one priority for our country and world is retiring Trump, and, as I always have, I will do whatever I can to support our nominee.

  149. 149.

    Another Scott

    January 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    They’re starting up again.  I’m watching on C-Span 2.

    Jeffries is up for the House.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  150. 150.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    @JPL:

    I don’t mean respect. I mean It.

    Obama has It. Reagan had It, like it or not. JFK and FDR had It.

    I think Abrams has It, too. It has nothing to do with policy or respect. It’s, well, It.

  151. 151.

    Fair Economist

    January 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    @Martin: Hoyer will be the next Speaker. He is very popular in the caucus and has given Pelosi tough contests in the past, and he wants the job bad. Fortunately he won’t hold the post for long, since he is old.

  152. 152.

    CarolPW

    January 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    @Immanentize: I was 13, and watching the dogs and fire hoses horrified me. I was a democrat before that, but the footage cemented it in permanently.

  153. 153.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 8:16 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That first line is perfect.  Right down to the !

  154. 154.

    mrmoshpotato

    January 21, 2020 at 8:16 pm

    I’m seeing those “You’ll never believe…!” trash ads about Barron Trump.  Sounds like the Rethuglicans need to bust out the torches and pitchforks.

  155. 155.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 8:18 pm

    @Mnemosyne: See my comment at #85.  My spelling of “it” included quotes, but as you can see, I totally agree with you on that.

  156. 156.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 8:19 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    that empty bag on the floor? she used to keep her fucks in it

    Perfect. Too long for the rotating tag?

    ETA: She should knit something provocative.

  157. 157.

    taumaturgo

    January 21, 2020 at 8:19 pm

    @Kent: You are correct, on the other hand, a cursory review of Biden’s voting record will be disastrous in a debate with Donald. “Joe, did you or did you not vote to not allow a student to ever discharged their student debt? You and I can file for bankruptcy and receive relief, but you Joe voted for the bill and amendments to close that door shut for millions of struggling students.” By the way, you did take hundreds of thousands of dollars from banks and credit card companies, just like crooked Hillary.”Oops, Bernie is for eliminating student debt to grant a fresh start to young students. Being liked is cool, backing the policies that would actually bring relief is more important.

  158. 158.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 8:20 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Abrams’ election was the one where her Republican opponent continued in office as the Georgia Secretary of State who runs the election process and did not recuse himself at all. I think that being suspicious that maybe the election was not honest and aboveboard when Abrams’ opponent was throwing tens of thousands of Black voters over the voting rolls is pretty sensible.

  159. 159.

    Ella in New Mexico

    January 21, 2020 at 8:22 pm

    @Immanentize: Oh, I agree. It’s just the fact that she’s only been in office a year and she’s still in the middle of some really transformative changes here including school reform and marijuana legislation. Not a good place for us OR her to leave.

  160. 160.

    Ella in New Mexico

    January 21, 2020 at 8:24 pm

    @dr. bloor: Oh, I dunno–is there even a female equivalent of Keith Richards lol

  161. 161.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 21, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    @taumaturgo: Bernie, you and Rand Paul were the only two Senators to vote against Magnitsky Act sanctions against Russia, twice. Why is that?

    Fuck Bernie.

  162. 162.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    Bernie is for eliminating student debt to grant a fresh start to young students. Being liked is cool, backing the policies that would actually bring relief is more important.

    Where does backing policies that alienate substantial numbers of voters fall on your list of priorities?

  163. 163.

    burnspbesq

    January 21, 2020 at 8:26 pm

    @gene108:

     a lawyer, as capable as Sekulow

    If you think Sekulow is capable, you’re on drugs.

  164. 164.

    West of the Rockies

    January 21, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    @dm:

    Speaking of hacking sort of stuff, isn’t it weird that Wikileaks hasn’t released anything bad about Trump?  It’s like they’re a right-wing organization or something.

  165. 165.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    @Baud: @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  I added it to the list for Cole, but changed it to Hillary because out of context it might be a challenge to know who was being referred to.  Or perhaps it should be Clinton?

  166. 166.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    And all of the Berniebros will drool uncontrollably and cast their votes for Trump, because they’re motivated by slogans and not reality.

    Congratulations on showing once again how shallow and easily led Bernie’s fans are. Sure, Trump put kids in cages, ran up the deficit, picked a fight with Iran, and tried to destroy healthcare, but he made a zinger about Biden and credit card companies, so he has my vote!

  167. 167.

    Ella in New Mexico

    January 21, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    on the other hand, a cursory review of Biden’s voting record will be disastrous in a debate with Donald. “Joe, did you or did you not vote to not allow a student to ever discharged their student debt? You and I can file for bankruptcy and receive relief, but you Joe voted for the bill and amendments to close that door shut for millions of struggling students.”

    Dude, have you SEEN what Trump has DeVos doing to hudreds of thousands of students who already qualified for the loan forgiveness OBAMA AND BIDEN IMPLEMENTED IN THEIR ADMINISTRATION?

  168. 168.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 8:28 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    You may need to re-adjust your snark meter.

  169. 169.

    WaterGirl

    January 21, 2020 at 8:29 pm

    @Mnemosyne: When you hear Stacey Abrams describing all the shit that went down with that election, it’s obvious that there’s probably a 0% chance that the election was not literally stolen.

  170. 170.

    burnspbesq

    January 21, 2020 at 8:30 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    The myth that student loan debt is non-dischargeable is just that. Or have you not been following the news lately?

  171. 171.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Doesn’t matter. Trump will bark out the Approved Phrase and Berniebros will flock to vote for him to prove that Mom the centrists aren’t the boss of them!

  172. 172.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    @burnspbesq: It’s still pretty hard to discharge though, even with that recent ruling.

  173. 173.

    dr. bloor

    January 21, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    Have to agree to disagree on this one.  Jeter shouldn’t be embarrassed about a guy who won the batting title three times and who, on a position-adjusted basis, might have been a better fielder.

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jaws-and-the-2020-hall-of-fame-ballot-larry-walker/

  174. 174.

    Baud

    January 21, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    He’s running to Biden’s left!

  175. 175.

    VOR

    January 21, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @dr. bloor: Yes, the Rs will make a BFD about a minority and a woman as VP. They will scream about Identity Politics and tokenism.

    I remember in 2000 one of the BS arguments for Bush over Gore was that the Arabs would be upset if the US had a Jewish VP (Lieberman) and it would mess up the Mid-East Peace process. My response was to politely ask if we ought to let other countries have a veto on our government officials. 16 years later and they are perfectly happy letting other countries pick our government officials.

  176. 176.

    zhena gogolia

    January 21, 2020 at 8:34 pm

    DNFTT

  177. 177.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 8:35 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Yup. A lot of that going around in states that the Republicans control; see also, Florida.

    And even if the proof never surfaces, I will go to my grave believing that Hillary’s votes in Michigan were outright switched to Jill Stein to give Trump his “victory.”

  178. 178.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 8:37 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: Chrissy Hynde

  179. 179.

    MomSense

    January 21, 2020 at 8:39 pm

    @Immanentize:

    No, not in second place- second choice.  If someone ID’d for one of the other candidates, they named her as their second choice.

  180. 180.

    Chyron HR

    January 21, 2020 at 8:39 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    I understand that anybody who looks at Bernie and says “Yes, this is a divine being, I will literally worship him and obey him unquestioningly” has something seriously wrong upstairs, but nonetheless, do you guys really think getting assigned to troll random blogs by your supervisor at Our Revolution is remotely effective at getting people to vote for Bernie?

  181. 181.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    @MomSense: oh.  Like Warren everywhere.  I wish that meant votes for Warren.  It might in Iowa!!  I am hopeful her retail excellence has power.

  182. 182.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    @Immanentize: Heh– I think she quit drinking before he did. And really quit, AFAIK, not just “only beer and wine from now on!”

    A couple of years ago, Chrissy Hynde did a tour with Stevie Nicks (who’s also in the “lucky to be alive club”, I believe), and all I could picture in my head was Chrissy stealing Stevie’s lunch money behind the venue of every show.

  183. 183.

    Another Scott

    January 21, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    ICYMI, Evan Hurst liveblog at Wonkette:

    President Crimey

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  184. 184.

    Miss Bianca

    January 21, 2020 at 8:42 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: New Mexico is starting to sound more attractive all the time!

  185. 185.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 8:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I get it.  A of it.  She lost.  Do you want to litigate that issue all during the coming presidential election?  I don’t.  “But, but, but….”

  186. 186.

    Butter Emails

    January 21, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    Out of curiosity, do you happen to think that Trump is as he’s depicted in McNaughton’s paintings?

  187. 187.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 8:47 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Obligatory.  The Rotters:
    Sit on my Face Stevie Nix

  188. 188.

    Kent

    January 21, 2020 at 8:53 pm

    @taumaturgo:@Kent: You are correct, on the other hand, a cursory review of Biden’s voting record will be disastrous in a debate with Donald. “Joe, did you or did you not vote to not allow a student to ever discharged their student debt? You and I can file for bankruptcy and receive relief, but you Joe voted for the bill and amendments to close that door shut for millions of struggling students.” By the way, you did take hundreds of thousands of dollars from banks and credit card companies, just like crooked Hillary.”Oops, Bernie is for eliminating student debt to grant a fresh start to young students. Being liked is cool, backing the policies that would actually bring relief is more important.

    Oh, get real.  Like Trump is ever going to take that line of attack in a debate.

    Biden answer:  “Yes, we were wrong back then.  We also didn’t know 25 years ago how much college costs would escalate and how unaffordable college would become for working class and middle class families.  That’s why the DEMOCRATIC party is pushing for debt relief for college students.  And that’s why the DEMOCRATIC party has a long list of proposals to make college more affordable for working class and middle class families.  All of which you Republicans have blocked.  And your own Department of Education has abandoned all of the debt relief initiatives that Barak and I put into place to help students who were defrauded by  the for-profit colleges that are supporting your campaign.  Democrats are the only party advocating for affordable college and debt relief for student borrowers.  By your own actions you have shown yourself to care more about tax breaks for billionaires and the profits of your fly-by-night for profit college cronies.  Than working class and middle class families.”

    Talk about a hanging curve ball of a debate question.

  189. 189.

    different-church-lady

    January 21, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Someone needs to sit Bernie Boy down and break the news to him that he’s in danger of being completely highjacked unless he gets a hold on his campaign and his surrogates ASAP.

    After four years of this, I can no longer entertain the idea that is a case of surrogates gone wild. It’s an accurate reflection of the attitude of the campaign, and it comes from the top.

  190. 190.

    different-church-lady

    January 21, 2020 at 9:04 pm

    @Miss Bianca:

    “what if it was YOUR SON who raped and killed my wife? Would you then be so eager to hear me say I’d support the death penalty?”

    Or: “what if it was YOUR SON who was falsely accused and then convicted of raping and killing my wife?”

  191. 191.

    different-church-lady

    January 21, 2020 at 9:11 pm

    @The Dangerman: It’s called the Hall of Fame, but people talk about it like it’s called the Hall of Stats.

  192. 192.

    Immanentize

    January 21, 2020 at 9:14 pm

    @different-church-lady: But the question was even more horrible, “what if your wife was raped and killed.” I cannot express how much I hate that moment. So vicious. So inhuman. But, there it is. And we want to explain why Abrams lost an election?

  193. 193.

    chopper

    January 21, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    @Kent:

    my god man, that would completely *destroy* biden’s chances! only BERNIE! can possibly have a good answer to that question, by definition QED ipso facto summa cum laude etc etc.

  194. 194.

    ruemara

    January 21, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @Immanentize: You are definitely not the news. A good portion of it was the cop smear and the other good portion of it was the idea that white people wouldn’t support a black woman. when you look at donations, were they wrong?

  195. 195.

    sab

    January 21, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    @ruemara: You have a point, but everyone was telling us that Kamala had a deep deep well of California money to dip into. So some of us who liked her thought well she doesn’t need it, so I will give elsewhere, like to my locals who might have a higher future if they can get some seed money.

    I gave to her when it was too late, to help her pay off bills.

  196. 196.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    @Immanentize:

    I don’t think we need to relitigate it. I think we need to point out at every available opportunity that the Republicans are cheating cheaters who cheat. They can’t keep their word if their life depended on it. They can only win by cheating.

    If pointing out that they WILL cheat in this election counts as relitigating prior elections, then so be it.

  197. 197.

    Another Scott

    January 21, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    Wonkette’s Senate trial live blog:

    […]

    9:28: Mitch McConnell would like to do an amendment on can everybody go to bed now? Schumer says eat three dicks and go swimming in a lake of shit.

    9:30: OK what McConnell really said is can they put all the rest of the Democratic amendments in a bucket and vote on them together. Schumer, in a technical sense, said eat three dicks and go swimming in a lake of shit.

    9:32: Not only is Mitch McConnell SWEEPY TURTLE GO GRRR ARGH, he is also not happy the House impeachment managers have spent an entire “rules” day kicking ass and telling the story to the American people AND SHOW ZERO SIGNS OF STOPPING.

    9:36: Here is the choice Schumer just gave McConnell: Either we keep going tonight, or we can keep doing this tomorrow afternoon, which means the trial doesn’t start tomorrow, we just keep telling the story to America.

    Which do you like, Mitch? Shit sandwich, or shit sandwich with whipped cream?

    Give ’em Hell, Chuck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  198. 198.

    taumaturgo

    January 21, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maga voters are the ones mostly suckered into believing that undeserving students don’t deserve a break, only tax cuts for the wealthy are deserving. The canceling student is not only wise economic policy, it is the right thing to do for the youth of the country.

  199. 199.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    @taumaturgo: that’s great, Sparky. You go sell it to middle-aged people in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, then get back to us.

    I’m assuming you know what the electoral college is? Am I giving you too much credit?

  200. 200.

    jk

    January 21, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    He likes people, actual individual humans

    Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar like actual individual humans every bit as much as Biden does and I’m sure their campaigns could dig up plenty of videos comparable to this one.

  201. 201.

    taumaturgo

    January 21, 2020 at 10:08 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Sorry to burst your bubble, facts are what they are. BTW, Joe is vulnerable from social security and medicare cuts to his infamous and draconic mass incarceration legislation.

  202. 202.

    taumaturgo

    January 21, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe, but the despair and drug scourge happening today to the folks in the middle part of the country who voted for Donald in part because of corporate democrats taking money and legislating for the benefit of the donors at the expense of the voters. Look up how much campaign contributions has Joe procured from the rich and powerful?

  203. 203.

    PJ

    January 21, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @taumaturgo: None of that is going to matter if Biden is the Democratic nominee.  (BTW, Biden never pushed for cuts to Social Security and Medicare.  He talked about putting it on the table as a negotiating tactic, but he never advocated for it or signed legislation supporting it.)  He’s not my first choice, but his record is out in the open, as are his tax returns.

  204. 204.

    PJ

    January 21, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @taumaturgo: Where the fuck did you come from?  Nobody voted for Donald Trump because they were concerned about Democratic candidates taking campaign contributions from rich people.  They voted for Trump because 1) they are racist and/or sexist; 2) they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for “that woman”; 3) they are extremely wealthy and were looking forward to the tax breaks; 4) they were in it for the LULZ; or 5) their brains were addled from watching 20 years of reality TV and they actually believed Trump was actually some kind of outsider, savvy businessman who had built up an empire by his bootstraps.

  205. 205.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 21, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    @taumaturgo: well, that was utterly incoherent, but I think you got BernieBot Buzzword Bingo!

  206. 206.

    rikyrah

    January 21, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Pete lost.

    Stacey Abrams was phucking robbed

  207. 207.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 11:04 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: 

    I wonder if we’ve finally got our first automated troll. The incoherent word salad would seem to be the giveaway. Maybe Major^4 could write us a tool to figure it out. ?

  208. 208.

    Mnemosyne

    January 21, 2020 at 11:08 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    No, I get that the Berniebros are stupid enough to vote for the guy whose Secretary of Education is being threatened with jail time for voiding student loan relief agreements that Obama’s administration arranged. Because you guys are too stupid to look past a pretty slogan to see what’s actually happening in the world.

    And remind me — is Joe’s “mass incarceration” bill the same one that Bernie voted “yea” on and then went on a victory tour about his vote? Weird how you guys are so anti mass incarceration but magically forget that Bernie voted FOR it.

  209. 209.

    Omnes Omnibus

    January 21, 2020 at 11:08 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Nah, tomato shows up every once in a while to be leftier-than-thou.  It may be automated, but it’s not new.

  210. 210.

    CaseyL

    January 21, 2020 at 11:22 pm

    The Bernie Bros are really, really scared:  they’ve mounted another coordinated, enormous slander campaign on Twitter.

    5.5K tweets, and they’re all from Bernie operatives.  Flooding the twitterverse.

    I’m not giving the hashtag; if you’re curious, go take a look.  You’ll know it when you see it.

    How long before the MSM starts with its “…people are saying/people are concerned,” helping Bernie with yet another hit job?

  211. 211.

    Z

    January 22, 2020 at 11:00 am

    Amazing how teflon the Biden campaign is… the selfie thing is one of the top two things Warren’s campaign is known for. There’s literally tens of thousands of equally enthusiastic moments from Warren supporters. So much that she’s gotten pushback for it being too much. Frequently for over a year these moments have genuinely gone viral. Now it happens, one time, for Biden, filmed by the New York times and pushed and pushed by Biden’s comms team on Twitter till it goes viral… but for Biden it’s a sign of his genuine appeal or whatever.

    It’s obviously a genuine moment and Biden’s obviously a likable guy… but for some reason this is maybe the clearest example of a double standard for women running for President that I’ve seen so far.

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