This is a great piece on social distancing and how and why to do it. Again, I am not a doctor, but it is my own personal opinion that it is too late to do disaster prep- it’s time to hunker down with what you got. If you are out of necessities, go to the grocery store in off hours and treat it like you are an extra in the Stand.
And for your idiot right wing uncles, here is a great piece in the Post on WHY you should practice social distancing. It even has pictures for the Republicans who don’t like big words.
Stay safe.
germy
I never saw that movie. How did the extras act?
Jinchi
Be aware that “off-hours” have changed significantly in the last 24 hours.
Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.
I worked in public health, focusing on disaster preparedness. Over TEN YEARS AGO (when a certain Kenyan-born usurper was President), HHS helped us transition from all the post-9/11 freakout planning for infinitesimal ly likely bioterrrorism events to preparing for this little thing called pandemic influenza.
We addressed so many of the questions being asked now about quarantine, social distancing, closing large gatherings and schools, helping the health system be resilient, do the hospitals have enough ventilators and ICU beds, how can we help vulnerable people “self-quarantine” etc. All of it. We hired experts, ran simulations and exercises, met with community groups and planned together. And we developed answers and concrete plans, which we ended up using a few years later when H1N1 hit.
HHS has seemingly lost all the institutional memory of that process. I guess the staff turnover and years of focusing on crap like work requirements for Medicaid will do that.
Jinchi
I’m pretty sure most of them die.
gravitoon
I would say to also consider there might be other folks out there who might need supplies so walk the thin line between stocking up and hoarding. You don’t need 10 cartons of eggs :)
Jinchi
I got the impression that regular staff were being actively blocked or overridden by Trump appointees who were treating this as a political PR problem. Like making sure that the numbers stayed low by not counting people and requiring experts get their messages cleared through the vice president’s office before talking to the press.
Jeffro
We are all-in on social distancing here at the Fro household (after stupidly having dinner out on Friday night).
Btw for you parents out there, here’s an AMAZING link to Khan Academy’s schedule, complete with links to academic activities, for PK-12 students. GO FOR IT!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@germy:
Like they were wearing red shirts
debbie
@Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.:
And yet, PBO’s changing the rules for testing is responsible for THIS and it’s the ONLY problem. //
AND HE ACCEPTS NONE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY!
debbie
@Jinchi:
He dumped the whole pandemic council that Obama set up after Ebola. Trump insists on relying on his “natural ability” and his “hunches” for everything.
WereBear
I don’t want to scare anyone, but Mr WereBear and I have been bunkered since Wednesday night with one quick trip to deserted downtown with serious social distancing.
We’ve been SO hungry. Eating more than our normal.
At this point Zombies would be the last straw.
R-Jud
Every other Sunday I receive a huge grocery delivery from Tesco here in the UK. Online ordering is easy and it only costs the equivalent of about $4-5 to have it delivered. This week there was a notice that you could only order two packs of things like pasta or toilet paper at once, but I was still able to order three bottles of wine, so that was fine with me.
Why the other inmates here with me on the island aren’t using that, I don’t know. I love it. I rely on it because I don’t drive and because online shopping helps me stick to a budget. It now has the added bonus of preventing me from shedding virus all over some old dear who may or may not have had pneumonia last autumn.
JoyceH
I thought I was ready – have enough that I can hunker down for a couple weeks. But yesterday I saw a quote from Fouci saying the social distancing and self quarantine may need to continue for several months! So that kind of concerned me…
A Ghost to Most
Since all the ski slopes in CO are shut down, we may take a drive west on I-70, for the sheer novelty of being able to do so in winter.
Suzanne
We are trying to sell our house and social distance at the same time. So lots of walks with the dogs in open air away from people while showings are going on, and disinfection of surfaces when we return. Mr. Suzanne had to run to a store to pick up a prescription, and he got a bunch of groceries while he was there. I’m not letting SuzMom go in anywhere, no using public restrooms, etc. I got about 30,000 steps yesterday. Tomorrow, no one goes to school, and both Mr. Suzanne and I will be WFH.
dmsilev
Went grocery shopping yesterday. One of my neighbors, who grew up in Romania, described it as “like the communist era”. Huge lines, store A is sold out of 1 but has lots of 2, whereas B has plenty of 1 but the 2 shelves look like a plague of locusts have come through. Except dried beans and rice. Nobody had those.
Found everything on my list though.
dmsilev
@JoyceH: In that scenario (which is plausible; in the “flattened curve” case, it could be 6 months before this dies down), grocery stores and supply chains would have to be classified under essential operations and remain open. That’s what Italy for instance is doing.
NeenerNeener
I thought 6 am on Saturday morning would be “off hours”; I thought wrong. The grocery store was packed with people, but no meat. The check out line was enormous, of course. I’m going to try having stuff delivered this week instead, and I’ll try ordering take-out at assorted restaurants in the immediate area when I want to eat meat. That’s assuming, of course, that the restaurants have meat.
germy
@debbie:
And then claimed at a press conference he had no idea it’d been dumped.
MattF
Many years ago, I broke a leg and got groceries delivered at home. They always get the order wrong, so be aware. I took a quick walk around my immediate neighborhood this morning– not completely deserted, restaurants generally have reduced hours but still have some customers. I haven’t gone to the local Farmer’s Market. Be safe. Soap and water.
JPL
In NYC the age of those getting the respiratory illness associated with the virus is trending down. The elderly’s taking notice and staying home, which is good news. link
Another Scott
CalculatedRiskBlog – FOMC Preview:
I think it’s going to be very, very bumpy until the US has sufficient testing and shows signs of bending the (number of new infections) curve. That’s almost certainly a month or few away.
:-(
Hang on, everyone. Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy: Actually, it would not surprise me in the least if he didn’t. He has very little awareness of anything outside of FOX news and the latest Poll #s.
WaterGirl
@NeenerNeener: And assuming that the people in the kitchen in restaurants are taking the proper precautions.
Would I choose takeout over starving? Absolutely. Otherwise, I’m not at all certain that it’s safe to eat out or take out.
Am I being paranoid?
germy
@OzarkHillbilly: Which means the government is being run by people like Miller and Mnuchin, while #45 has no idea of the details.
Jinchi
Running to the store on Friday, I was amazed by what was taken and what was left behind. Paper towels, water and pasta – gone. Liquor and beer were fully stocked.
Ohio Mom
I read an article comparing the Spanish Flu response by Philadelphia and St.Louis: Philadelphia had a big War Bonds parade, St. Louis shut down for something like two months. So I am expecting increasing shut downs in scope and time. Gulp.
The Thin Black Duke
@WaterGirl: What some people call “paranoia”, other people call “common sense”.
RSA
@WereBear:
Can you change into your bear form and hibernate?
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost to Most: They are? Wow, I missed that news. Good for them. All the bars were still open in Salida last night, tho’. I had a gig, had to go (show must go on) and between people wanting to hug me or shake my hand, and my ex’s girlfriend telling me not to worry, it would all blow over in two weeks, I was ready for some *serious* social distancing by the time it was all done! As in, “get the hell AWAY from me, you freaks!”
Suzanne
The last temporary hospital in Wuhan closed. My friend who lives in Suzhou and is a professor says that he is hearing that this is the last week of online classes for them. I am trying to tell myself that dramatic, decisive action will make this a short-lived thing, because my anxiety is not awesome.
Ohio Mom
Every time I hear someone say they use grocery delivery services, and that it is a way to socially isolate, I am reminded that Ohio Son has a gig-economy job as a shopper at Whole Foods.
After each shift he comes home to his somewhere-in-the-continuum-of-high-risk parents (over 60 with various health conditions). Which I can only assume negates to some degree my and Ohio Dad’s isolating ourselves.
Son doesn’t have a regular schedule but needs to do a minimum of four shifts a month to keep his place on the payroll, else they assume you quit. The job is a bright spot for him in his otherwise somewhat limited autistic life. Especially since his other activities, community college and outings with a disability-services agency, have gone on-line, which isn’t the same.
He’s done his four shifts for March already. Like so many other things, we’ll have to defer judgement for a while about what comes next.
Barbara
@Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.: Work requirements, extreme “conscience protection” regulations and how to stymie guaranteed access to contraception, to add a few of the current priorities at HHS. Some of the other priorities are okay, e.g., lowering Rx prices, but the ways of going about it are so indirect as to be meaningless or are just flat out unworkable or outside the scope of authority or both. A lot of wasted effort.
Barbara
@Ohio Mom: I am camped out for the weekend in the house we own in the rural place where my SO grew up. It’s a red part of the state but nearly EVERYTHING is shut down. They might be talking a good game on dittohead radio but most people seem to be heeding the advice of local and state public health authorities.
Exregis
The current crisis reminds me of the Y2K crisis: computer software, sometimes embedded, that used dates with only two digits for the year was going to fail, and that software was everywhere in our infrastructure, and consequently we would be without power, water, and other systems. Of course, those fears did not occur when January 1, 2000 rolled around, and those who made a big deal about Y2K were made fun of, and what was the big deal anyway.
Underneath, out of sight, thousand of systems engineers, programmers, and computer engineers were working day and night for months, even years, to make sure all the dates were fixed. And they mostly succeeded. If radical social distancing manages to flatten the curve sufficiently so that our medical infrastructure is not overwhelmed, be prepared for RWNs, especially DJT (humpty-trumpty as my partner calls him), to scoff at the extreme measures taken. Those poor dumb shits.
Leto
Avalune and I prepared for this, but I’m still seeing way too many people calling this overblown, just the flu/common cold, etc… I’ve been warning my parents about this, and while they do use hand sanitizer quite a bit, they’re also idiots and still go out. I’m fairly certain they’re at church now. I can only control me/my actions.
Also the liquor stores will be closing for two weeks starting Tuesday. Should be a fun time.
wvng
Nunes is telling people its a great time to eat at restaurants.
wvng
@Exregis: My dream is that a year from now that lots of people will still be around to scoff at all the hubbub and panic because after all only a few thousand people died, not even as bad as the flu. Because that would be a public health emergency success of historic proportions. The idiots will never understand that the only way to prevent catastrophe was to do far more than seemed “reasonable.” But my dream is unlikely to come true and we pretty much all have to look after ourselves, our families and our friends. And not be polite to anyone spreading lies.
grandmaBear
I’m a little fatalistic here in Ohio – almost 70 and with a history of asthma and bronchitis. My college classes have gone online, my music teacher has suspended lessons (she’s very high risk), but I live with son and family. Son has a job that can’t be done at home, DIL is a doctor, two elementary school kids home indefinitely but playing with friends in the neighborhood. Neighbors are mostly 30ish and apparently not as concerned as I am, not hunkering down, one was out at a party last night. I thought I had bought fairly wisely this last week but kids descended like a swarm of locusts on all the snacks we had.
In my last Chinese class on Tuesday, a student who was in China in late January but came back to class the day after he got back was raving about the great prices on tickets to Europe. Idiots with zero concern for others are going to kill me. Sorry, a little grouchy.
MagdaInBlack
When I read about having groceries delivered and take out food, I think about the service workers who cant “hunker down” because theyre delivering.
And, I think about what else they may be delivering with that food.
ETA: Im an expert weekend hermit, but tomorrow I’ll be back on the front lines.
GC
Vox: Covid-19 Charts
Bill Arnold
I had put this upstairs but John’s “go to the grocery store in off hours and treat it like you are an extra in the Stand.” makes it appropriate for this thread too:
Sign outside pub in Edinburgh
via Charlie Stross
Ohio Mom
[email protected]: A lot of places in the Cincinnati are already shut down or have announced a shut down date — schools will be open tomorrow for one last day and closed after that; the colleges are all already closed; the St. Pat’s and Reds’ Opening Day parades cancelled; the library first announced a social distancing policy and followed that a day later with, Nope, we’re closing and suspending all due dates and overdue fines; and the list goes on.
But I haven’t heard anything about any retail closing. When I went out yesterday morning to pick up a few last things at Trader Joe’s, the Kenwood Mall area was hopping. Are people going to Macy’s to stock up on socks and underwear?
BroD
Just a thought for folks with responsibilities relating to this crisis: China biuilt a hospital in a week. We don’t need to: we have lots of vacant retail spaces in our cities and suburbs.
Ohio Mom
[email protected]: Didn’t we already have this conversation? To refresh your memory, hospitals are built to specs that can’t be duplicated in an abandoned store.
Yes, we are a wasteful people, building store buildings without apparent end, way past any community’s ability to buy that much, and not blinking when yet another store is shuttered. But meeting the needs of this pandemic is not the answer to that issue.
Bill Arnold
@Exregis:
I call people like that stupid to their faces. Of if feeling generous about their feelings, “not thinking clearly”. Seriously, this mental incompetence makes me disappointed in Homo Sapiens.
Suzanne
@Ohio Mom: The idea of building hospitals in old retail buildings sounds wonderful, if you don’t care about breathing disgusting air and contracting a nosocomial infection. Or don’t need enough power for any of the medical equipment. Or getting litterborne people out safely in the event of an emergency.
Perfect example of people who have no idea what they’re talking about…. talking.
NeenerNeener
OT – I saw somewhere that HBO is making a series out of a book called Station Eleven, so I got the ebook from the library and started reading it yesterday. Big mistake. It’s very well-written, but it’s about the aftermath of a pandemic that kills off a large portion of the human population. In the first chapter a virus wipes out a Toronto hospital in a matter of hours. I wonder if HBO will drop the project now.
satby
@WaterGirl: well, my son runs a take out pizza place in Chicago and sanitation rules are very strict all the time anyway, because communicable diseases are always possibilities. My kid is a sanitation nazi. Most successful places are probably similar, people getting sick shuts down a food place fast.
WaterGirl
@satby: Not surprising to hear that your son is responsible! Wondering about the places that are run by people who think this is no big deal.
J R in WV
@Jinchi:
Well, I’ve been doing my part. Every supply trip I’ve gotten more wine, beer and spirits, along with food. No masks, tho, dammt!
BroD
I boldly held a small community meeting yesterday (6 people, 3 of whom–myself included–have pre-existing vulnerabilities) in a well-scrubbed public facility which could hold 100. I was pretty strict about distancing but cut some slack for the two who routinely sleep together.
BroD
@Suzanne: A bit harsh, I think. You raise real issues which need to be considered but it’s an alternative.
Jess
In other words, live like I would if I didn’t have to work? Okay! (We’ve moved all the classes online now, so I’m happily working from home with a cat in my lap “helping” me.)
Avalune
My concern with delivery service besides feeing sad for gig economy as always… is that if I’m healthy and young enough to go to the store I want to do that instead of taking delivery people away from the elderly and compromised who really need it.
PIGL
@Another Scott: How is lowering interest rates from almost 0 to even closer to 0 supposed to help at all? What effect, for example, does that have on credit card interest rates? This seems so misguided to me that it must have some malevolent purpose.
PIGL
@Bill Arnold: it’s not mental incompetence so much as malice.
PIGL
@Jinchi: People’s priorities are clearly borked.
WaterGirl
@Avalune: You go to there store, you could be exposed to 100 people. One delivery person comes, you quarantine your stuff for a few days, risk is very minimal. ?♀️
karen marie
@WaterGirl: I’ve read that when you order takeout, you should immediately transfer the food to a new container, throw out the container the food came in, disinfect any surface the takeout touched while you were transferring, and wash your hands.
I’ve also seen it recommended that you take off your shoes when coming home, leave them outside the door, and put on slippers or shoes which have not come in contact with the outside world. If you are especially paranoid, you can do the same with your clothes.