Betty wrote about Jay Rosen’s new essay at his site PressThink, where he recommends that editors should change the way their media outlets cover Trump since he spreads so much misinformation. Last night, Rosen posted this lengthy Twitter thread to address the question of whether reporters should do a better job questioning Trump at press conferences. Read the whole thing, but he makes a couple of good points:
- If you question Trump about a falsehood, he spins off more lies as he answers your question, so the lies grow exponentially. So the notion that good, hard questions will make any difference is wrong.
- There will be no moment where some reporter asks (as Joseph Welch did at the Army/McCarthy hearings) “have you no sense of decency” and Trump crumbles. We need to stop looking for that.
Again, read the whole thing. Trump is about to hold another press conference, and I’m sure things will come out of his piehole, but I think Rosen’s proposal to scale coverage of those press conferences way back and summarize what can be verified is what we need to do right now. I also think Paul Campos is right to say that a “semi-normal, minimally functional human being” as President could look like Churchill in the next few months, since we’re all just looking for a little honest leadership, but Trump doesn’t even have the ability to live up to that incredibly low standard.
Military Life: Leto on Moving
Baud
Given who the media never asked itself that question during or after the 2016 election, I agree it won’t happen.
Brachiator
This is a crappy situation. If the halfway legitimate press stop covering Trump, the president will simply stock the audience with Fox News and other right wing nutjobs.
Also, Trump is not the only one who is delivering information. We need to hear from the other people, especially the experts, and get what they say widely communicated.
Cheryl Rofer
Margaret Sullivan agrees that the press conferences shouldn’t be covered live.
This morning, we are told that everyone is getting along just fine.
NotMax
Suppose it needs to be pointed out to any fuzzy on the details that Welch was not a reporter.
AnnMcC
May I recommend a new “parlor game”? Count how many times VP Pence says “President” in his brief daily remarks. See who can guess the right number. Just now (Saturday at 1:20 p.m) Pence managed to mention his boss 26 times in 6 minutes. That’s about once every 14 seconds. Awesome obsequiousness.
MattF
The ‘press conferences’ are actually campaign events. Brad Parscale, Trump’s campaign manager, attacked Biden for, I guess, opposing Trump in some unspecified manner:
Just bear in mind that none of Trump’s statements need to be true or even related to facts. It’s all about scoring points.
ziggy
Trump is obviously filling some void in himself by doing these press conferences, the void he usually fills by doing rallies. He has his hand-picked coterie of experts nodding around him, giving him validation. It really is quite disturbing and not the slightest bit reassuring–are trumpies even reassured? Not sure how you keep him from using the system for self-validation.
Brachiator
@ziggy:
Oooh. Good point. I think you are exactly right about this.
mrmoshpotato
@Cheryl Rofer: Oh, getting along tremendous bigly at punching the virus in the face like it’s a protester.
I’m sure there’s no massive black hole of need where Dump’s soul should be either. /S
hells littlest angel
He hasn’t been crowing about the ratings for his press conferences. I wonder why that is.
ziggy
@Brachiator: Now that I read the twitter thread, he does point that out. What if nobody asked any questions, just look at him in disbelief, blinking, and then do a “takedown” of his lies after the briefing.
mrmoshpotato
OT – I’m seeing an ad for construction equipment. More road graders and bulldozers please. Hehe
Leto
Maddow stated on her show last night the same thing Rosen did: the networks should stop covering him live. All he does is lie and broadcasting that live is spreading lies/disinformation in real time. If he says something noteworthy, they can roll limited tape to show just that.
She was also visibly angry, which is rare for her, but it turns out one the members of her staff passed away from the Coronavirus. So I think this is now fairly personal for her.
Redshift
@Brachiator:
What would it matter who’s in the audience for his press conferences? He’s already calling on OAN. What matters is that they don’t broadcast it unfiltered, and if he retaliates by banning them, it’s no great loss. White House press conferences have never been the main source for important information in the best of times, and it’s not worth the flood if harmful lies to get a few words of truth from Anthony Fauci and an unreliable mix of facts, half truths and sycophancy from Azar and Dr. Birx.
NotMax
@ziggy
As far as this band of zeroes is concerned it is a public relations crisis, not a public health crisis.
Would anyone with more than two brain cells express true surprise if it’s urged tomorrow to burn coal for protection from the virus?
Redshift
@MattF:
Always projection with these clowns.
mrmoshpotato
@ziggy: “Great googly moogly, that’s bullshit, but we’ll take this all apart and inform the public accurately in our studio so we don’t have to sit here while a manchild calls us all losers.” (stand up in unison and walk out)
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: And drive around windows down rolling coal because it pisses off liberals.
BBA
Between Drumpfist propaganda from the CDC and Xiist propaganda from the WHO, it’s a very weird situation when the only trustworthy figure is Andrew freakin’ Cuomo.
Betty Cracker
The networks absolutely should stop broadcasting the press conferences. I’m not watching the bullshit show anymore, but he’ll probably repeat what he tweet-screamed this morning:
This is bullshit, as Dr. Fauci said yesterday, but more diplomatically: the treatment has to be tested.
mary s
It is a tricky situation, indeed. You kinda have to cover the president, but I think the coverage could be curtailed. Easy for me to say! Apropos of media folks desperate for somebody who will address their questions with what at least sound like coherent sentences, I read a terrible article in the Guardian that was full of praise for Pence’s “competence” — meaning his ability to stand in front of a group of reporters and speak into a microphone without losing his shit or saying anything overtly anti-science.
Chyron HR
@Brachiator:
Yes, but if the only ones covering them are Fox News and other right wing nutjob media, then they’re no longer as useful as a propaganda weapon.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
Let the Eagle Soar blaring at 11 from the bargain brand car stereo.
Redshift
Speaking of the OAN “reporter,” it struck me that the “question” she asked was on par with Jeff Gannon at the Bush press pool years ago. That caused an uproar and investigation all around about how he’d gotten credentials. Now it’s become so normalized that there’s barely any response from the rest of the press other than calling it a really stupid question (but still treating her as a journalist.)
Librarian
One problem is that they ask him questions on policy that they know he can’t answer, and he answers with meaningless platitudes and bullshit. To ask him questions is a total waste of time because he doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about. He should let Pence and the experts handle these pressers, but his ego just can’t let him do that.
hells littlest angel
@Betty Cracker: “… have a real chance to be one of the greatest game changers in the history of medicine.”
In other words, they won’t be worth fuck-all.
Hummus Where The Heart Is
Trump’s PC’s should only be shown on tape delay and with a running chryon that says “This is bullshit” where appropriate.
Aleta
The press needs to stop repeating the Republican campaign propaganda of ‘wartime president’ about him. It started appearing in the Post, etc. in a sort of noncommital way, which is the beginning of embedding what Republicans want. If we’re calling this a war, he is the enemy. He’s the traitorous president during wartime, and he and his administration are actively supporting the killing of our side.
MattF
@Betty Cracker: Derek Lowe:
Note that Lowe makes the distinction between a theraputic effect and a prophylactic effect. Two different things.
cintibud
How about using a five minute tape delay and bleeping out every false statement like it was a profanity? Of course that would just leave in “and, of, it, the”
Betty Cracker
@Leto: Yep, Maddow was PISSED, and she’s absolutely right. Here it is if anyone wants to see it (recommended):
Marcopolo
@Betty Cracker: Yes, and as a result of what Trump said about chloroquine yesterday, there are reports of folks ODing on it.
And I have also read reports of folks decamping to warmer climes as a result of other statements, not backed up by actual evidence, he’s made about COVID-19 not doing so well in warmer temps.
The problem with covering him live is he just has such a huge megaphone as POTUS.
To wit, some of the reported CA ODing was in Lagos, Nigeria.
Redshift
@mary s: I don’t think anyone is saying not to cover what Trump says, just not to broadcast it live and unfiltered. In the unlikely case that he says anything actually newsworthy, report in it afterward. For his lies, report them in “truth sandwich” style (state the truth, report that Trump falsely said otherwise, then reiterate the truth.) But mostly report on factual information from the experts and people who know what’s actually being done, not wild claims and “everything is fine.”
hueyplong
I don’t hope that tough questions will solicit the truth or a moment of confession. They do occasionally trigger Sen Stillson/Dead Zone moments, but Trump’s fans just think the child from that scene would have it coming. I see tough questions as (1) an admittedly slim shot at triggering a stroke and (2) preventing the PR events from becoming pure, unadulterated Fox/ONN rallies.
It only takes a few really angry lash-outs to make some powerful campaign ads, and every day provides lots of statements from him that will look bad three months from now.
Do not stop asking questions. Just play them back later instead of live, showing only the relevant stuff.
Betty Cracker
@MattF: Good summary. I think that’s basically what Fauci was saying to Trump during the presser, though he had to use smaller words since he was talking to an idiot.
NotMax
@cintibud
Or a simple declarative sentence.
“The president spoke today. Now we’ll move on to real news.”
debbie
I feel it’s really important to hear what Fauci and a few others have to say, so I figured out a way to get through these press conferences. Every time I hear “no one’s ever done this before” or “this has never happened before in the history of the world,” I close my eyes and punch his fat face. He’s very bloody at the moment.
debbie
@cintibud:
I believe Jimmy Kimmel did something like this, and it basically was just prepositions and conjunctions.
The Thin Black Duke
To be brutally honest, are the empty talking heads on TV pretending to be journalists even necessary anymore? Considering how many folks these days are using alternative media platforms to get their news, I think the only audience TV news shows have now are the people who already know that it’s propaganda, don’t care that it’s lies, and only want their prejudices to be validated.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’m angry. My son works for a defense contractor here in IL which is, as you know, on lockdown. He employer has decided (maybe been told? I don’t know. Is there a list somewhere?) that they are vital and everyone is to continue working. They can work from home if their work is unclassified, but his sure isn’t. There’s a confirmed case in one of their facilities near the one my son works in. This is dangerous.
Hummus Where The Heart Is
I’m all for Red Hatters to line up and take those two drugs right now. If they get well, AWESOME. If they seize up, AWESOME. This is pure win win.
debbie
@MattF:
They still don’t know how it works on malaria, let alone anything else.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: There’s a BettyCracker who commented on the Sullivan column in the WaPost. Was that you, or a pale imitation?
Marcopolo
@Redshift: In case you haven’t heard, another “reporter” now sitting in on briefings is Sean Spicer. Newsmax has hired him.
He May have been Trump’s first press secretary but I am pretty sure he knows nothing about actual reporting.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: It was me. I try to be encouraging when they do something good.
artem1s
the main thing I learned from living with a narcissist for three years is no matter what, he will opt for attention – good or bad. If I don’t give it to him, he will find it somewhere else. In the beginning you are so distressed from the gas lighting, this seems like the worst possible outcome. When you finally wise up, this outcome is exactly what you aim for. Once I wised up, my only goal when I had to have contact with him was to do whatever I could to expedite his move across country to live with his new girlfriend. No discussion about accountability for past actions; no closure for me or him; no arguments; no negotiating; no small talk; YOU GET NOTHING – no attention, positive or negative. Deal with the business at hand and then get out of the room as fast as possible. Yes, he was going to come out of it smelling like a rose with his family and friends. But you know what? He was going to be 3000 miles away and I suddenly didn’t care one whit. I was happy to accommodate him even, as long as he would be out of my life.
With Trump, I can hope for the press to wise up or find that magic bullet to get him to stop his malignant behavior. But I know the best thing is for serious, concerned citizens in the media is to remove him from their public conversation. Fox will keep doing it’s thing, or he will find some other outlet for his fix. But those who get it, should just go get their news from someone else. Literally pretend he does not exist. Hell, don’t even mention his name if you can avoid it. That’s actually an even better bet for making sure he doesn’t start the attack brigade. He’s going to focus on anyone who responds, not those who marginalize him.
the serious press should JUST FUCKING IGNORE HIM. No, he won’t go away. But at least you are actually doing some reporting on something that does matter and may help. And he will be relegated to marginal corners of the media and internet where C level celebrities hang out.
debbie
@ziggy:
Or even better, just say, “We’re waiting for Dr. Fauci’s turn at the microphone.”
catclub
ask the stock market. It goes down whenever trump tries to re-assure, but just lies instead.
Redshift
@Marcopolo: ? I had not heard that.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: John Ashcroft is driving?
L85NJGT
@Betty Cracker:
Sounds like he’s positive and casting about for a miracle cure.
jimmiraybob
The only reason that I watch Trump on TV, whenever I can manage it, is to focus on the expressions on the people standing next to him. I have tested and tested Rule No. 1 (he is always lying) and Rule No. 2 (he is always self dealing) extensively. These have proven to effectively eliminate 99.9999% of viral bullshit like Trump-45. These tools are the Lysol of tools.
Another Scott
@Baud: Yup.
The purpose of the press attending press conferences is to relay important information to the public – as the public cannot be there on its own, of course.
When Donnie’s administration very early on talked about moving the press out of the White House complex for briefings, it was obvious (of course, it was obvious earlier, also too) that their briefings were not going to be normal. They were going to be propaganda. Spicer’s performances proved that.
They should charge Donnie’s campaign ad-rates to broadcast those things. Otherwise, they should ignore them.
“Republicans don’t lie to be believed. They lie to be repeated.” – LOLGOP.
At this late date, the press should have learned this. Don’t repeat the lies. People’s lives and the future of our government are at stake.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@debbie
The unwiped down microphone.
mrmoshpotato
@Hummus Where The Heart Is:
I think a flashing chryon would be more appropriate. And now I want some hummus.
mad citizen
I started watching it in the middle on (cnn.com) and he was boasting about something or other when it came on. This “rating my performance” is so awful, and the press seems to enable it. Just heard someone ask him about the Olympics–WTF? But then, why ask this moron anything at all?
Fauci is 79 years old. Hope there are backups.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
This crap bugs the shit out of me. But you can see hear how Trump represents the rise of the ignorati, those people who don’t care about facts or science and who just don’t understand why their “common sense” view of the world doesn’t rule.
Trump can be stubborn and stupid, but he has the power to force others to obey him, even down false trails.
I think that Trump said that Bayer was working to produce this “miracle cure.” All this does is waste resources that might be better used elsewhere.
I have no idea where Trump got this notion that he is on to the ultimate cure for the virus. But his desperation to always be vindicated may well result in needless deaths. This is disgusting, and just makes his electoral defeat an absolute moral necessity.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
Cannot speak to his driving or not driving. Can, however, confirm he is not dancing.
;)
Betty Cracker
Not watching the shit-show, but Daniel Dale’s Twitter feed is proving Maddow, Rosen and Sullivan’s point about stopping the live coverage:
Pull the fucking plug, networks.
Mike in NC
At his next self-absorbed appearance, Fat Bastard should urge people to drink anti-freeze to kill the virus.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
Taking too much can screw with a person’s liver.
ziggy
Yeah, I had to look at a few clips of the “show”, and he really does not look great. Take care, Fauci.
NotMax
@Brachiator
“Jared just ordered a chemistry set, so we’ll have this thing licked before Hitler’s birthday.”
//
mrmoshpotato
@Marcopolo:
That’s to argue that Spicer or Newsmax actual do reporting and not just spew bullshit.
“Dump’s crowd was the bigliest ever! Period! Stop believing Obummer’s stupid inauguration photo and your stupid, stupid lying eyes, you stupids!”
emrys
@BBA: yes. MSNBC has been covering Cuomo’s press conference at 11am and the difference is stark.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
“You’re not counting right. Each of those people of color in the Obama photo only count as 3/5.”
NotMax
@emrys
Thankfully, his inner Mario has come to the fore.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
WTF? We are just two steps from the Reverend Donald Revival Hour, with Trump laying hands on virus patients.
Also, he is sucking hard to get the evangelical vote in November.
John Revolta
@AnnMcC:
I’ll give him this: he understands what his job is.
Eric S.
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I understand Pritzker’s order does list what is essential and what isn’t. I haven’t read it but Chicago Tonight did say the list was extensive.
Mike in NC
Deleted
mrmoshpotato
@Betty Cracker: Woooooooow! As I said last night, Hillary needs to show up singing ?Putin’s bitch, get out the way, fuck off to Vlad? and start fixing this while running over all cabinet trash with Betsy DeFraud’s yachts.
NotMax
Can’t help but wonder if Fauci dons one of those “I’m with stupid” shirts underneath his dress shirt before showing up.
L85NJGT
Sounds about right.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Ouch, but accurate when it comes to the Trump trash.
Aleta
mrmoshpotato
@Brachiator: I’d rather have Jim Carrey exorcising the demons.
Aleta
@L85NJGT:
@JoyAnnReid on 3/20
MattF
Apparently, some people in Nigeria took Trump’s advice.
Hummus Where The Heart Is
@Aleta:
Wax down that slippery slope! I figure it’s not too long before the Internet gets taken down (tanking the economy, but truly fucking Bezos/Amazon) and the only news we get is Hannity and Max Headroom (when Hannity sleeps).
Bex
@Betty Cracker: Trump wants a miracle cure that he can take credit for and become emperor for life with his loser family members as heirs.
BBA
@emrys: I never cared for Cuomo Jr before this crisis – he’s governed from a deeply suburban worldview, with a thin patina of performative liberalism to make it go down easier in the city.
But he does give a damn about this state beyond his reelection numbers, and he and the health commissioner have been taking this seriously.
Aleta
Arrest Trump during the next briefing in front of cameras. It might not work, but we don’t have much time so what do we have to lose.
danielx
After his meltdown yesterday I was having fantasies of some reporter finally melting down and saying something to the effect of “Mr. President, when will you stop the stream of lies and bullshit that pour from your mouth like diarrhea from a covid-19 patient’s ass?”, “or maybe “you said this, now here is what doctors and nurses are saying – why should anyone believe a word you say?”. Never happen, because nobody speaks to even this president that way, but oh how I wish someone would. Publicly, so everyone has a view of his head lifting up and spinning around on his shoulders.
Just remembered this one this morning – an oldie but goodie, and seems most apropos.
Johnny Winter – Still Alive and Well
NotMax
@Hummus Where The Heart Is
Computers get viruses too!
:)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Eric S.: Thanks. I just went and looked and it’s a long list of generalized categories. I can’t tell if a defense contractor falls under any of them. I’d guess that if they’re making an end run, it will catch up to them, but not before they’ve infected a lot of people.
L85NJGT
Fair Economist
@BBA: Cuomo – and for an even more extreme example, DeWine – show that even many basically bad people draw the line at massive epidemics killing thousands of people in their jurisdiction and will actively and capably work to stop it.
Trump, regrettably, is far more evil than that.
mad citizen
@Aleta: I tweeted a reply to one of trump’s tweets last night asking anyone in the “second line” to just step in front of trump and the microphone and point out his insanity. End this shit. You would be a hero.
Re: Pence, it’s a fucking disgrace is what it is. Someone should ask him what trump’s ass tastes like.
These people are now easily into Cheney territory–will not be able to go into public again without being subject to verbal abuse from average citizens. I’m guessing Cheney is probably fine in Wyoming, and Pence will be OK in Indiana (because we’re mostly polite), but not elsewhere.
NotMax
@BBA
Also too, NYers ought to be grateful the Dems wrested control of both chambers of the state legislature.
John S.
Trump is incapable of taking responsibility for things he did (like dismantling the task force responsible for handling a pandemic and slashing CDC funding), but he loves to claim responsibility for things he did not do (like provide adequate response and take appropriate action to curb the pandemic).
He really is a horrible piece of crap.
L85NJGT
@Bex:
He’s definitely trying all these crackpot remedies.
patrick II
@Redshift:
Kevin Drum has added Fauci to your list of sycophants. Fauci changed his story from “No, there are no verified studies” to “The president has a good feeling” in the matter of a few minutes. He’s in the cunundrum any person with competence has when working for Trump –= should I tell the truth and be fired, or shade the truth or lie, and stay on to do what good I can?
Kattails
The SEIU (union) did a conference call mid-day with higher ups plus some local people reporting. Pushing hard to get all workers protected, of course. At the end there was a chance to leave a message, and I left this one, how do we counter the media’s seemingly unending mindless reporting of the President’s lies? Because it’s actively harmful. Unions are coordinating, and while their voices are nothing like what they once were, it could still be helpful.
wvng
If these things are going to be covered, I rather want a reporter to ask Trump why he is bidding up the cost of medical supplies, hording material the states badly need for federal stockpiles. I want that reporter to have done some due diligence to discover if the companies who are getting that extra money from the feds are in any way connected to Trump, Kushner, or the Trump campaign.
James E Powell
Agree with Rosen in that thread and in that thing he wrote the other day. But I have to take issue with one statement in the twitter thread.
I do not believe that the reporters, editors, and news directors see their aim as increasing the supply of reliable information. They certainly haven’t been doing that for many years. They didn’t do it at any time during the 2000 presidential campaign, the Bush/Cheney’s Great War Adventures, the entire Obama administration, or most recently and most tellingly, the 2016 presidential campaign. If memory serves, many members of the press/media take great umbrage when they are told that truth is any part of their jobs.
We can be certain that Dana Bash doesn’t think it’s part of her job. And we can be equally certain that she isn’t the only one who believes as she does.
Nora
@NotMax: We NYers are glad of that; we worked hard to make it happen.
patrick II
I read a story in the NYTimes about Trump using the coronavirus pandemic as a weapon against highly infected Iran, a hammer during negotiations. I wonder if he is doing the same thing against the Blue state cities during negotiations over the relief package. A few lost democratic voters will bother him not at all.
I don’t think voters realize that when they vote for a president with a tough and ruthless foreign policy — such as Trump’s torture them, bomb their families policies — that such a person does not draw lines at the border. He will let you die just as easily if it suits his purposes.
L85NJGT
@wvng:
Trump always says the quiet part out loud.
We’re not a shipping clerk…
Trimmers gonna trim.
NotMax
No pressing need to rush, now is there? (emphasis added)
Chyron HR
@Fair Economist:
Or perhaps it shows that when members of The Left portray Democrats as history’s greatest monsters in their primary campaigns it does not necessarily make it a true representation of reality.
Brachiator
@NotMax:
I can’t believe this administration is so … I don’t have words.
Brachiator
@patrick II:
I hope that he at least draws the line at snake oil.
NotMax
@Brachiator
“The president is right. There are few things more aggravating than a squeaky snake.”
:)
hueyplong
@mad citizen: “Someone should ask him what trump’s ass tastes like.”
JFC, no. Pence would go on for 5 minutes about how great Trump’s ass tastes, using the word “president” 65 times in the process.
At this point, I can’t imagine anyone other than Pence as VP. Maybe that immaculately dressed dude who would stand there holding up a mirror for Morris Day.
Elizabelle
Meanwhile, irony is on life support. Coronavirus is streaming across our Southern border. It’s true.
Only — it’s heading south. In jets. Full of skiers and rich people. Who are importing the coronavirus to Mexico from Colorado winter resorts.
Los Angeles Times. Some of Mexico’s wealthiest residents went to Colorado to ski. They brought home coronavirus
NoraLenderbee
@L85NJGT:
I can’t believe no one has mentioned essential oils yet.
NotMax
@hueyplong
Pence makes Nancy Reagan look positively rebellious.
patroclus
There can never really be a Joseph Welch moment with a liar like Trump. He’ll just double down with more lies and more bragadocchio about how no one was ever as smart or as accomplished as he is. McCarthy was different – he would ruthlessly slime someone based on no (or very thin) evidence – and the Welch moment only occurred after he broke an agreement not to slime a young lawyer working for Welch who had once signed up for the National Lawyer’s Guild. Welch was not supposed to out Roy Cohn as gay either and he got close to doing so but didn’t quite do it. But McCarthy interpreted him as having done so and then slimed the young lawyer anyway, which led to Welch scoring him with the “have you no sense of decency” line.
With Trump, it’s just not comparable. He simply won’t stop lying and he’d never agree to stop lying (like McCarthy had agreed to stop sliming). If a WH reporter “caught” him on a lie, he’d just lie about it and deny that he had ever lied.
NotMax
@NoraLenderbee
Phlogiston. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
//
Elizabelle
It’s a really good article in the LA Times. Putting up lengthy excerpts, since a lot of you might hit a paywall. Link in my comment above.
Chilling to see that Mexico’s president is not taking COVID19 seriously enough.
danielx
@L85NJGT:
Funny – was my impression that the government, in the form of the military, is just that – esoteric stuff gets shipped all over the globe every day, from supply depots right here in the U.S. of A. There is a saying, if I remember rightly, that goes like this:
Amateurs study tactics. professionals study logistics.
Elizabelle
Last excerpt from the LA Times story. Reporter is Kate Linthicum of the Times’ Mexico City bureau, with assistance from Cecilia Sanchez.
Mary G
I didn’t see it all, but Dr. Fauci worries me a lot. He had trouble standing still and touched his face a lot, particularly in the forehead and temple.
Yutsano
@NotMax: He’s got 29 days. Have at it Miracle Boy!
neldob
Meanwhile – The money is getting vacuumed up by the connected uber-rich. Why the heck should we save Carnival Cruise Lines? Because they are job creators? So is unemployment insurance. And these legislators’ foul behavior:
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/20/headlines/at_least_five_us_senators_briefed_on_coronavirus_sold_stocks_before_market_crash
Once again it is socialize the costs and privatize the profits for these huge corporations who probably use fancy accounting techniques to not pay any taxes.
https://itep.org/60-fortune-500-companies-avoided-all-federal-income-tax-in-2018-under-new-tax-law/
This is just gross. All these so called ‘liberal’ newspapers are hardly covering this aspect of what is going on these days.
Grrr. I wonder what Fox is covering these days? Is there a new conspiracy theory?
different-church-lady
My god, the Habermens are stupid people:
different-church-lady
@BBA: The Narcissism of Little Differences doesn’t play so well when there’s a genuine crisis afoot, eh?
Martin
Ok, here’s an additional bit of good news. Cepheid has a point of care coronavirus test coming out this week. They should be able to scale pretty well, and their equipment is widely deployed. Test takes about 45 minutes to get results, and many if not most hospitals have one of their processing machines – almost fully automated and can run 24/7.
Cepheid was the company that produced the anthrax test after 9/11 and their equipment is all over government facilities, post offices, hospitals, etc. They’re legit, and they’re accustomed to this kind of rapid response/ramp up. And they’re doing legit cutting edge DNA testing – spun out of Berkeley/Lawrence Livermore.
Point of care tests should help hospitals know definitively at the point of intake if someone is infected or not, so it’ll reduce some of the chaos in the hospitals. It’ll also help a lot on the back end of this when we return to a containment stance trying to identify and trace every case. They should be fully at volume by then so they could presumably test everyone in a hospital including staff regularly.
Limited help now but a key piece for the next phase.
Elizabelle
@different-church-lady: Gag. Clyde Haberman. I had not realized he was that stupid.
James Fallows responds for us all.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle: “I went to the US to ski, and all I brought back was a deadly virus.” ?
mrmoshpotato
@NoraLenderbee: Paging Marianne! Paging Marianne!
mrmoshpotato
@patroclus: “Have you no sense of decency?”
“You’re a total loser, and a bad reporter! I’m tremendous bigly and the bestest Presinant ever! Sad!”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
That’s very good news!
Litlebritdifrnt
Quick PSI. My Husband and I go to breakfast every Saturday at the local Cafe just down the road. They are now take out only so we made the conscious decision to get a take out breakfast from them this morning because we want them to be open after this is all over. Support your local small businesses!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@mrmoshpotato:
I want a Mutiny on the Bounty moment so bad. This guy is a dangerous malignant asswipe who has to pump himself up every chance he gets even during a real crisis
patrick II
@Elizabelle:
There are 21 million people in Mexico City and adjacent areas. Mexico city is remarkably unplanned and unorganized. People just built houses on empty lots, buses are usually just someone who bought a small bus and started to run a route and people figured out where to get on. It is crowded, and many parts of the city lack potable water. Without serious precautions, when the virus hits Mexico City, it is going to be tragic.
The Thin Black Duke
Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I’m sure this won’t help but…
We have been at war for 17 yrs now. We have a lot of people at risk in the military. Their equipment is being used, abused and worn out. They need new and more equipment or bring them home. This maladministration is not going to bring them home, so we have to support them. It’s a crappy situation, sort of like my boss’s SO who works in a supermarket. She’s still working. I’m not, but I could make that choice. And she’s rather directly exposed to the great unwashed masses. She’s not the only one, lots of people are.
I hope your son is safe and I’m sorry that he’s in the position he’s in. He may suffer and that’s wrong, I just have no idea how to fix it.
mrmoshpotato
@different-church-lady: Hahaha, g’damn! (sigh)
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
This may have been posted before but a couple of websites that have lots of good links to sources of aid are
bigdoorbrigade.com and itsgoingdown.com (click on the Menu link on there home page and click on the Covid-19 link for links to specific mutual aid resources by geographic area
also mutualaidhub.org
hueyplong
@The Thin Black Duke: The presidency doesn’t change horrible traits. It exposes them.
mrmoshpotato
@Litlebritdifrnt: Quick pounds per square inch? :)
Glad you’re giving them business.
mrmoshpotato
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): A gaping maw of personality disorders, but also a Soviet shitpile mobster conman.
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
Possibly your second attachment. Permeant Rebar Placement. PRP.
The only thing that’s going to elevate the current president is the lift to put him in the back of the hearse. The celebrations to mark the occasion will be loud though. And quite possibly have running yellow fluid.
The Thin Black Duke
@hueyplong: And Trump voluntarily walked into the biggest job in the world that’s illuminated by an even bigger spotlight. He has no place to hide.
BBA
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): nah, Caine Mutiny. Bligh was cruel but competent, Queeg was a nutter.
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It’s a good piece. I’m worried that we have a 100 piece puzzle here, we do all of the work to pull long lost pieces out of the soft cushions, get them all laid out on the table, and the feds are too stupid to figure out how to complete the puzzle.
The next stage requires methodology. It requires finding ways to divide and conquer the problem, with clear areas of responsibility and authority. The states can fill that space in most cases (Georgia and Missouri seem to have governors utterly unable to tie their own shoes) but the feds need to enforce the interstate stuff and backstop the states that lack the resources to do this (tiny states and some red states will really struggle).
J R in WV
@AnnMcC:
I would suggest a drinking game, but if you did 26 shots of anything you would be either hospitalized or dead.
Duane
Mai naem mobile
@Mary G: Kenny Rogers died yesterday and he was 81. Granted I believe Rogers had alcohol and/or drug issues but Fauci is 79. And Fauci has probably had a high street life due to his job.
WTF was Orange Pusball going on about sanitizing masks. Seriously we have the best healthcare system in the world a d we are going to sanitize masks? It’s like you can see his tiny little loser bidnessman brain thinking of saving a buck by cutting corners, screw the workers.
Martin
BTW, Italy’s 4825 number is still in line with their better trend, but rather than turn sharply downward as I hoped, it’s merely slowed. This makes me think we’re not seeing the effects of the March 8 shutdown yet. They had a more localized shutdown in the north back in late Feb. and that might be what we’re seeing. So, there’s 3 possibilities here:
If it takes 3 weeks then the US will likely drift into the 100K casualty range, and that’s providing the others states soon do what CA/NY/IL have done.
I did go to the grocery store earlier today and it was a complete clusterfuck. They had a few good measures in place, but if anyone in that store was infected, then everyone including me is. I’m trying to figure out how to report them – they need to do WAY more.
Elizabelle
@patrick II: The LA Times had an article on Mexico, too, and how unprepared it is. How the president is even more lackadaisical than Trump is. (Although maybe it is fatalism. He has exponentially less resources to throw at the problem than we do.)
I am so worried for them. They will not have a chance once it hits the overpopulated and underserved and isolated areas.
Los Angeles Times: Amid growing coronavirus threat, Mexico’s president says he’s putting trust in good-luck charms
Duane
@mrmoshpotato: No idea how my comment appeared as attributed to you. Also lost the edit function. Sorry.
Martin
@Mai naem mobile: Hospitals have big UV lights in their surgical and other areas. Just put the masks out in there, flip on the UV for a few minutes and they’ll be good. It’s a lot of work to do, which they may not have the manpower to do, but that’s probably the best way to do it.
Tehanu
@Dorothy A. Winsor: So sorry to hear this. Hope both you and your son stay safe. also, what @Ruckus: said.
patrick Il
@Elizabelle:
It seems that denial is an important right- wing autocrat mental asset.
Duane
@Martin: I’ve called the Missouri governor’s office three times in the past two weeks, urging them to expand Medicaid now and plow resources into the Division of Social Services. (As if they’d listen.) In normal times they barely work. Missouri is going to be screwed.
Martin
@Duane: As will everyone around Missouri. The states locking down hard can’t let up if the other states are letting the virus spread.
rikyrah
Mandalay
@Aleta:
Hah! Similar legislation is being drafted by the Conservative government in Britain, except they’re not bothering with any icky judges to get involved:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
trollhattan
Mandalay
@ziggy:
Meh. Occam’s razor suggests that he’s having attention grabbing press conferences about the “China virus” so that nobody is talking about the tanked stock market, which may end up being the much bigger problem for him in November.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And then what happened, Gady Epstein?
What a maroon.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
admittedly I don’t know much about this guy other than that Elizabeth Warren laid him out, but this comes as a pleasant surprise![]()
trollhattan
@Mandalay:
“Dead, or poor? Dead, or poor? I know, why not both?!? Trump 2020!”
Duane
@Martin: Missouri went from 47 reported cases Friday morning to 73 Friday night, with very little testing. St. Louis county has issued stay in place orders. Nothing from Governor Parsons. The Kansas City Star is doing good reporting.
artem1s
@Aleta:
anything to not take the blame. /ffs
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ruckus: @Tehanu: Thanks to you both. I just feel really helpless.
Elizabelle
@patrick Il: Although Mexico’s Lopez Obrador is a left wing populist.
Refreshingly, Alejandro Macias, a former govt health official, now with the University of Guanajuato, provided this quote about Mexico’s president (LA Times link above) — and it applies doubly to Trump!:
Cacti
Barr asking Congress for new “emergency powers”, including:
-Indefinite detention without charge or trial
-Indefinite suspension of trials
The balls on that MFer. Imagine for a moment that the Pukes had held the House in 2018. Both of the above would be our new reality.
artem1s
@Brachiator:
Also, he is sucking hard to get the evangelical vote in November.
Yea, not gonna happen. Dolt is now screwing up their honeypot grift of the dumb rubes who believe Supply Side Jesus has blessed them with their riches because they are the bestest, most holy, saved snowflakes. Coronavirus don’t care bitches. She’s taking the saved and unsaved alike. The Rapture done come and they somehow missed the bus! Dolt is an amateur when it comes to throwing people under the bus compared to the Televangelists. They will lead the march to burn the Orange heretic and his painted whore at the stake. If Dence survives this trial by fire, he gets to be their new figurehead. If not, welp, he must not have prayed hard enough.
Kent
@rikyrah: Not only that. They are still maintaining the huge tariffs on Chinese medical supplies like gloves, masks, gowns, and respirators.
Robert Sneddon
@Martin: UV-C lamps as used for killing bacteria in operating theatres don’t reliably destroy viruses. UV-C damages delicate fabrics (like sunlight bleaching wallpaper and furnishings, only much more intense) and materials such as the filters in disposable surgical masks aren’t proof against such harsh treatment. Real medical-grade N95 masks have an expiry date since the filters age out of spec, hammering them with UV-C light will total them in short order.
What is needed is a surgical/antiviral mask that can be sterilised properly (in a steam autoclave or similar) and reused at least a few times before its filtration capabilities deteriorate. However it’s easier to make a cheap lightweight disposable mask in quantity one million except when the circumstances change and ten million masks are needed yesterday.
Kent
This is what my wife’s clinic is now doing. They write their names on their gear in pen on the insides of their masks, bag them, and then they have staff who zap them. They have big portable UV lights that they use to sterilize exam rooms after use by infective patients. No one knows if it is actually working on masks though, and to what extent. Everyone is flying blind.
They do have plenty of staff though. Most staff aren’t infectious disease or respiratory therapists. They have lots of people like say x-ray techs with nothing much to do.
Robert Sneddon
@Kent: The tariffs are paid by American importers to the US Government resulting in a higher tax take. People pay the extra costs via the increased retail price and blame Big Business for profiteering.
Mai naem mobile
@Martin: not if there’s stuff on them. Stuff like sputum or vomit. How are you going to see droplets? Its disgusting.
mrmoshpotato
@Duane: 25th what? Haha, his cabinet of other grifters and con(wo)men?
ETA: Sometimes that happens with the block quote. No worries. :)
ETA2 – Or actually you hit the block quote on accident. Again, whatever.
Mandalay
Trudeau and Cuomo have been getting praise for their speaking, but this St, Patrick’s Day speech from Irish PM, Leo Varadkar, knocked it out of the park for me.
Somber, and stuffed with cold facts and harsh realities, but hopeful and uplifting, with no servile lapdogs looking on, not a bad word to say about anyone, and in particular:
It’s odd listening to his speech, because there’s no hate, no anger, no blame and no insults.
narya
WF store near me opened at 8 am for people >60. I am, in fact, >60, so took advantage. Cheese, milk, and a chicken, which I’ll cut up for stock tomorrow; avoided the produce, wore latex gloves while in the store and then on the bus. Got home and washed everything, then took a shower. Tomorrow: a run in the morning, then a FaceTime pilates session (we’ll see how that goes, but I partly want to help support my teacher). I wish the cough would go away completely, because the panic breaks out every so often, but thanks to whatever I had, I’ve been home for 11 days now, with almost no contact with other folks.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mrmoshpotato: Also forgotten is you can invoke the 25th Amendment and Trump can just say “I’m OK” and resume presidenting.
Deep Southerner
@Brachiator: They don’t have to quit sending people. They just have to quit airing the shit live. Send your people to ask their worst — and get abuse heaped upon them — and curate the result after taking actual facts in account. I know this thread has moved way on from this comment by now, and others may have pointed this out, but by God I’m cooped up and ready to interact with someone. May as well be you.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Unfortunately, the networks can’t air Biden without giving Bernie equal time.
JaySinWA
@Baud: Equal time has been dead for an eternity. Never applied to Cable and was never that helpful. Besides, who cares if they give Bernie some air time. Of course the networks will look for ratings and bragging rights, so who knows who they will broadcast.
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, but there are more rounds (ding ding!)
Keith Olbermann broke it down here.
ballerat
He’s already shown that he uses his powers for disaster relief as a weapon against blue-voting areas and as a reward for red-voting areas. Recall his responses to natural disasters over the past 3 years in blue vs red states, and of course his response to hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico.
Baud
@JaySinWA:
It’s why they won’t give Biden time.
Ksmiami
@artem1s: I am not a good person anymore so a) I hope Azar is either felled by the disease or shot after a brief trial… these fuckers deserve no mercy
Miss Bianca
@Baud: Jesus, when will that alte kocher Bernie Sanders just bow out already? He has nothing to contribute. He could be doing his actual *job* right now. So *fucking* infuriating.
Greenergood
@MattF: one scarey bit is that this drug has a side effect of VERY bad nightmares, which is something you might not want to encounter, esp for people (like me) feeling somewhat precarious just now …
hells littlest angel
.
ChiRon8
@ziggy:
Why not take them down DURING the briefing? Everyone keeps saying this won’t work – but no one has tried it!
BillyjoeJimbob
I agree with ChiRon8. There’s not a single correspondent out there who can’t “out fact check”
Trump. Especially if they’d get together, get a single fact checking source for everyone to have “in their ear” during a presser and then, one by one, get up and tell truth to power until he walks out and quits out of frustration. There won’t be a Welch moment. It’ll be death by a thousand cuts and the “undecideds” will see that the emperor is naked as a jaybird. It’s gonna take nontraditional warfare to get this done. A coalition of truthers against a truly Evil Empire will take him and his down.