It’s difficult to know the right way to respond to an institution like the New York Times, which is clearly far beyond its sell-by date and starting to stink the place up.
On the one hand, their constant both-siderism and willingness to to publish the deep thoughts of fascists in a time when fascism is a real threat to the country has been obvious for years. The DC bureau has been fucked since forever, and it employs a courtier as one of their main White House correspondents. Their defensiveness and regularly demonstrated inability to course correct shows that you’ll be sadly disappointed expecting change from them.
On the other hand, a lot of people still read them, and they’re still influential, especially when most other media outlets have been decimated by budget cuts. Once in a while they break real news, not just a Maggie Haberman “scoop” of something that will be announced by the White House ten minutes later.
The way I deal with the NYT is by not reading it as much as possible, not linking to it here, trying to avoid embedding tweets from reporters there (but I’ve done it recently) and basically linking to other outlets like the Post and the Guardian. When they fuck up royally, as they did yesterday by thinking that Tom Cotton’s op-ed should be translated into English rather than published in the native German, just say, in the words of Aimee Mann, “That’s Just What You Are,” and move on. Because there’s no way to make that fucking paper’s needle jump the groove. They aren’t going to change, so it’s up to you to change the way you look at them.
Of course, there’s one obvious right thing to do: unsubscribe if you still give them money.
LarryB
*sigh* I can’t stop my wife from reading the NYT. Now that they dumped Melissa Clark for Sam Sifton, I don’t even read the cooking section anymore.
The Castle
I wish there were a way to support just their science reporting, which is actually very good, some of the best in the country.
But hell no, I am not supporting the Vichy Times for that. Their subscription numbers have been going up for a long while, something I have never been able to understand. Meanwhile, local papers are just about dead, so many Americans have little clue what’s going on in their own backyard.
Where’s their ombudsman to complain about BS like the Cotton op-ed? Oh right, that position was eliminated long ago, because who actually wants to hear from their readers? Bonus points for “Editor” Baquet saying that the NYT has only had to endure one scandal.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-the-new-york-times-fired-its-public-editor-in-favor-of-a-reader-center
Elizabelle
Yeah, FTF NY Times. I keep a sub because their non-DC conventional wisdom is good. But they make me wince every day.
Enjoy this: C-Span: press conference re Robert E. Lee’s monument coming down in Richmond, VA.
Mayor Levar Stoney speaking now. “Richmond is no longer the capitol of the Confederacy.”
Governor Ralph Northam up next, I believe.
artem1s
our institution has a business/education contract with them for a limited online access just since early this year. I think they are pursuing more of those group user accounts now. Who knows how they ‘count’ those. Maybe everyone at the institution is counted as a subscriber whether they ever go to the site or not. who knows.
Aleta
@Elizabelle: Thank you. Watching, and impressed by Northam’s speech.
germy
germy
Snarki, child of Loki
Why do I hate the NYT?
Let me count the reasons.
Bothsiderism, sure.
Covering up Trump crimes, of course.
Breathlessly covering Clinton “crimes”, as well.
Runup to the Iraq war, unforgivable.
And WORST, forcing me to agree with Ann Coulter, that the real shame of 9/11 was that the hijackers didn’t crash a plane into the NYT building. Damn it!
Elizabelle
@Aleta: Northam was out on front of this, before he was elected governor. He pushed for bringing down the Confederate monuments. I worried at the time that he was going to get too much pushback for that.
The blackface photo was the one item that was totally out of character. I wish those who were so quick to character-assassinate him — and they were all over the place on this blog! — when it happened, could have educated themselves about his platform, and what he has actually accomplished and tried to accomplish.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Black Virginians stood by him IIRC.
Elizabelle
@Baud: So did a lot of white Virginians, Baud. White people — and all manner of Virginians and Northam supporters — who worked to get him elected and knew that the photo was an aberration.
I tire of the convenient narratives we tell ourselves.
Villago Delenda Est
Baquet and his unholy boss, Sulzberger, both need to be defenestrated from the board room.
RSA
That’s what I did, even if it was a low-cost subscription through the organization I work for. Having an account, though, can be a useful thing, I’ve discovered. I read the morning briefing they send out by email, news capsules selected and summarized by David Leonhardt, and it’s a good overview.
germy
@Villago Delenda Est:
Some wag over at the LGM comment section said that Steve King was de-Feenstra-ed. It was good to see.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
Other than Krugman, it’s hard to know what there is of it that’s worth reading.
germy
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): The 1619 Project was very good. They’ve done some good investigative work.
But there seems to be a conflict going on over there between the good reporters and the editors/headline writers who have a bad agenda.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
Yes, let’s refuse to subscribe to the Washington Post too because we don’t like one person who writes for them. That makes a lot of sense.
A Ghost to Most
You’ve been a poster of FTFNYT shyte since time began. Did you ever apologize for your antifa slurs?
Frankensteinbeck
@Baud:
And my personal opinion was that I have no authority to judge and should go with what said black Virginians decide. When they stood by him, that was good enough for me.
oatler.
I liked when Aimee Mann ordered Pfannkuchen.
Betty Cracker
@Frankensteinbeck: IIRC, it was more complicated than that. At first, almost everyone was ready to run him out of office. Then the lieutenant gov was accused of sexual assault, and the next in line was a white Republican who had also been photographed in blackface. So, Va. Democrats decided to stick with Northam. It was a practical choice. I’m glad he’s been a good governor and a better man than he was in the 1980s.
Brachiator
@Baud:
They did not employ a self-defeating zero tolerance standard *cough* Franken *cough*
Also, Northam’s potential successors got caught up in their own unpleasant scandals.
JoyousMN
I haven’t subscribed to them because of the many reasons you post about. The Washington Post has done a much better job of reporting in this crazy new era and I have happily paid for my subscription there.
catclub
Important if true!
Elizabelle
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):
First up: I think the NY TImes’ problems commence in the publishers office. The two most recent Sulzbergers. Baquet could not be Baqueting if it was not their pleasure to retain him.
That said: Agree, Krugman is a big reason for maintaining the sub. Also Michelle Goldberg, Jamelle Bouie, a lot of intelligent voices who have columns. (And the execrable ones — Bedbug Stephens — who, in fairness — gets a clue sometimes more than we think — Bobo Brooks is probably the worst, because of his influence on VIPs and totebaggers…)
Editorial page editor is James Bennet, brother of Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado. While he selects some egregious stuff — the Tom Cotton op ed endorsing military force against American protesters [which I have not read] — there is an incredible breadth of superb opinion pieces. Experts and good writers who can explain something honestly and well. That’s worth the sub, right there.
The courtier reporters, especially the DC bureau, is a continuing problem. I should complain directly to them and their editor/publisher instead of whingeing here. We all should.
I think a huge problem with the FTF NY Times is its elite pool of reporter recruits. Nepotism (looking at you, Mags Haberman), and the view from the top Ivies and top journalism schools. Which gets it wrong. I think they take too many cues from their fellow “elites.” They really may not have seen Trump’s danger for what it was, and that is on them and their blinders. It wasn’t “all of us.” It was them, the fuckers.
I’d be happier if they hired muckraking local reporters more. Skip the well-bred and well-heeled and well-connected careerists. Put them in a marble enclave that covers the Hamptons and expensive restaurants.
Maybe reporters should not get tenure at the Times. Maybe it should be a 3-year tour of duty, and then you can earn your way back.
Also: I love Dwight Garner, who does book reviews. Their science writing is excellent, what little part of it I follow. Ditto for their foreign reporting. (Although, since the DC office gets it so wrong, I do wonder about their foreign takes, too, unless I see it backed by other sources.)
Anyway: a flawed publication, but with some good value. Which we should probably be complaining about to their faces more.
Barbara
@Baud: I think a lot of people piled on before they understood that it wouldn’t just be Northam, but also Fairfax and Herring — which would have led to an honest to God actual current racist being in charge. Not a win.
My husband grew up not far from where Northam did, and he was shocked, nonetheless, I think the difference between white and black reactions is that while African-Americans were angry, hurt and disappointed, I don’t think they were nearly as shocked that “nice white people” did stuff like that for amusement. They know how bad it really was, and how long it persisted in being bad.
Whereas, many whites are like me, moving to Virginia from a northern place where racism came in different forms from black face.
geg6
@artem1s:
Yeah, I wonder how they count that, too. I get it free through the University, so I can’t really unsubscribe. I’d like to many days, let me tell you. I don’t click on the morning emails most of the time. It’s usually clickbait bullshit.
catclub
@germy: what is the TL?
eta: timeline?
Elizabelle
@Brachiator: Yeah. I was so glad to see the immediate “Franken response” blow up in those cowards’ faces. Shame on them. They should have known better. Show some loyalty and don’t knee jerk.
MoxieM
@The Castle: Check out Stat, which is run out of the Boston Globe. You most likely know about that…
I find myself in an area where the Mouldy Lady is the local rag. I’ve subscribed online, against my better instincts, but I just don’t have local news without it. Sucks. I still subscribe to the Boston Globe, which is OK under owner John Henry (B Sox owner)–it misses Marty Baron as editor– but their electronic content doesn’t update much, and it really is a local-local paper. I subscribe to WaPo for national news. But I’ll admit I’m floundering to find a better alternative. Neither the Hartford Courant nor the New Haven Register is much of a fishwrap, even. Suggestions welcome.
Gin & Tonic
@Elizabelle:
Ken Vogel was an idiot in his Ukraine stories. The NYT has been consistently awful there.
pacem appellant
NYT delenda est.
schrodingers_cat
This is one issue I agree with MM 100%. NYT was my homepage for almost 20 years. I could not take their shitty political coverage since 2016 campaign. I stopped reading them altogether in the summer of 2016 and haven’t looked back ever since.
Elizabelle
@Gin & Tonic: Thanks. No surprise.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: They had a puff piece on Modi a couple of weeks ago. Full of bullshit.
L85NJGT
@artem1s:
Even back in the good old days of ink, industry subscription numbers required a jaundiced eye.
Citizen Alan
@Snarki, child of Loki:
I have thought that repeatedly over the last several years but always stop myself from saying it out loud. But I still think it.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: No doubt. Le sigh.
Citizen Alan
@Gin & Tonic: The thing I hate most about the Times right now is that I’m certain their management is still angry that a whistleblower exposed the Ukrainian story as bullshit. If Dean Baquet and Ken Vogel had their way, Biden would have dropped out months ago in response to a fabricated scandal
narya
I maintain the sub for Krugman, Bouie, Charles Blow . . . I also thought the 1619 project was good, and their Covid coverage–especially the state-by-state maps and data–has been very valuable. I also started subscribing to WaPo about a year and a half ago, so I’m really comparing side by side–and I find WaPo to be less well laid out, actually. And I mean visually, as much as anything. Basically, I ignore a lot of FTNYT. My local rags aren’t very good (ChiTrib and SunTimes), IMHO, and I refuse to give the Trib any money at all.
Capri
@Gin & Tonic: I give Vogel more credit than that. From this vantage he didn’t “miss” the story, he was complicit. The best thing the whistle blower did was scare the NYT away from attempting to give Biden the “her emails” treatment.
Kay
I love newspapers. I have since I was a teenager. I subscribe to the WaPo online because I think they have the best political coverage of the actual candidates and races – and I think it’s better than the rest by a mile- and I also subscribe to the Toledo Blade and our local newspaper, although I expense the local newspaper because they have the legal notices which I actually use and need.
The Toledo Blade is owned by a rich family so their editorial pages are mostly about how rich people hate labor unions, but I get a kick out of their reporters who to a man or woman are sort of admirably militant about their pay (it’s low) and their working conditions (which suck). It’s a funny contrast.
Chetan Murthy
OT, but still: I followed David Anderson’s example and just donated via ActBlue’s bail-fund aggregator: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/bailfunds?refcode=twitter
Thank you, David! Now I need to find some protestor support funds.
MisterForkbeard
@germy:
The dumb thing is that this isn’t the Press’ job. They should be reporting on the backsliding, actual positions and impacts of the Republican Party, not taking it on themselves to protect Republicans.
It’s the REPUBLICANS job to persuade the rest of the country that they’re not terrible. That the Press doesn’t understand this is a huge indictment of the media in our country.
Kay
I don’t know- the NYTimes just doesn’t do it for me. Even apart from their shamefully poor work on the Iraq invasion and their insane focus on the alleged criminality of the Clintons, the work itself doesn’t fit my interests.
I read their Tara Reade piece and as usual I was left with “wtf is this ABOUT?” I don’t understand why they take this social science approach or whatever the hell that is. I SUSPECT it’s because they think it adds value because they’re all reporting on the same news but it just drives me crazy.
Steeplejack
Kay
@MisterForkbeard:
One thing that I think is a legit criticism of all political media is they hound Democrats for answers to questions and they don’t do the same for Republicans.
If Donald Trump had a D after his name every fucking day would consist of reporters asking D members of Congress over and over and over to defend him. They get a “no” and they just give up if it’s a Republican. I realized it with the Trump tax returns. He told them to fuck off and they simply dropped it. That NEVER would have happened with Obama.
Feathers
Didn’t read the Cotton op-ed, but this tweet gets at a major problem with these “controversial” op-eds is that they tend to be full of lies, or at best the sort of half-truths that distort so much of our discourse.
Actual Text of the Constitution:
I get why you don’t want fact checking on the editorial page, but there should be a basic is this misleading check. That is how so much right wing BS skates by. The whole thread this tweet is worth reading BTW.
different-church-lady
I kinda disagree: the Cotton fuck-up was so blatant that it contributed to the pivot we’re seeing in the zeitgeist. We ought to be throwing a spotlight on that. Right now people are ready to hear that many of our major institutions have allowed the rot to progress unchecked.
Systemic problems are systemic. Normalizing tanks in the street as just another point of view is part of the system. We can’t just ignore it.
Elizabelle
@Feathers: Got to catch up with the thread, but it’s very possible the FTF NY Times put up the Cotton op ed not to endorse it, but to enable others to take it down.
Elizabelle
@different-church-lady: But that too. Normalizing (and to some extent sanitizing, by use of language) for sure.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: You’re right that it was complicated.
https://bluevirginia.us/2019/12/poll-were-we-wrong-or-right-to-have-called-for-gov-northams-resignation-last-february
Northam’s press conference after he admitted it was him, then denied it was him, was a disaster. That’s when many, many Democrats (including the Black HoD caucus, IIRC), called for him to go.
All 3 top state officials were and are Democrats, and all 3 had issues brought up. The Lt. Gov’s were and are the most serious (and aren’t fully resolved, as far as I know). AG Herring was the least equivocal about his blackface picture, and he has been fabulous as AG.
It was complicated. Northam has a strange history (he almost started out as a Republican in elected politics, and supported W). He’s more conservative than I would like, and when he was campaigning he shot down a lot of progressive proposals. But he’s been unequivocal in supporting abortion rights, and he’s done a pretty decent job as governor.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
The problem with the NY Times is that the organization is rotten from the head down. The publisher wants the Times to be the official newspaper of The Establishment. You can’t do that and also do good journalism.
Executive Editor Dean Baquet was a mediocrity at the LA Times and is worse than that in his current position. Editor of the editorial pages James Bennet seems to want to be known for his bold choices, like hiring asswipe Bret Stephens to be an op-ed contributor.
Worse the editors allow the worst conflicts of interest with respect to their writers and their beats. There is no way that Haberman and company should be covering the White House. But Trump likes her and enjoys using her to feed information to the Times. In return, she writes puff pieces. Plus she has a book deal, so needs to stay close as long as she can.
Other writers appear to work for the people they are supposed to write about, an infamous tradition that goes back to Judith Miller.
The sad thing is that there is also some very good writing being done there. But they are missing the story of the decade, Trump’s slow dismantling of democracy. The Times will be happy to be the paper of record for the heap of rubble that remains.
I worked at the LA Times when subscribers regularly called in to cancel because they were offended by a Paul Conrad editorial cartoon skewering Reagan or because a news story about racism upset their delicate sensibilities. Neither the publisher nor the editors ever paid attention to this, and it encouraged the reporters to dig deeper and write good stories.
I’m not sure what motivates NY Times reporters these days.
Amir Khalid
@Elizabelle:
Is Gail Collins still writing her column? She’s the one who called Trump a thousandaire.
Betty Cracker
Breaking from Le Post:
Huh.
Hungry Joe
You can righteous-snit your way into finding a reason not to support any news outlet. For more than 20 years I not only subscribed to, but worked for (as the book reviewer editor and columnist) a large newspaper with A LOT of editorial and editorial-judgment problems. But we also had good journalist who did first-rate work. I could have gotten on my purity horse, quit, and gone back to driving a bus, but …
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: Yes, she is. Link. The Times has also recently been pairing her with Bret “Bedbug” Stephens for a weekly recap on the news, ha ha ha. Both sides. They always do that. (So does NPR.)
different-church-lady
@Another Scott: He handled it very very wrong. But there’s an element of sorting out the infant from the liquid that goes completely unacknowledged nowadays.
“Ralph, you fucked up your apology. Fix it and get back to work.”
Archon
I think 35-40 percent would be just fine living in some version of fascism/right-wing autocracy where black people are kept in line with a police boot and any form of protest against right wing authority is met with violence.
Senator Cotton is odious but we shouldn’t pretend he doesn’t speak for a large percentage of Americans.
L85NJGT
I see it as an industry wide issue – editorially they act as if traditional twentieth-century readership has only stepped out, and will return momentarily. They’re still hardwired for a liberal Republican overclass and a steampunk working class.
Just Chuck
@Betty Cracker: She’s “struggling”. The poor dear.
LuciaMia
@Betty Cracker: “I’ll still support Trump tho I’m not happy about it. See, I still have some vestiges of humanity.”
Cry me a river.
MisterForkbeard
@Kay: Right. There’s a huge difference in standards. Democrats are pressed for answers, Republicans aren’t.
You can see this with Kasie Hunt’s questioning of Republican Senators after Trump teargassed peaceful protestors so he could have his picture taken.
She spoke with a ton of Senators! This is good! But she didn’t chase them, other reporters haven’t followed up, and they’ve just dropped the whole thing. They just accepted the ridiculous statements like “I don’t know anything about that” or “I haven’t read about it yet” and never returned to the subject.
It’s appalling. We’re still getting reporters asking Democrats about Tara Reade or Biden’s “you ain’t Black” joke, both of which were pretty much nothingburgers.
MisterForkbeard
@Betty Cracker: I’ll believe it when she actually does something of substance.
She’s far better than Collins, but that’s a really low bar. We’ve seen this kind of thing from her before.
Bob
I’ll file this under illiberal.
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: Since Amir asked, the latest Gail Collins. From yesterday. And she’s got a superb suggestion. (Last paragraph.)
Trump’s Magic Word
What we have here is a failure to dominate.
kindness
I defended the NY Times when I lived in NY. I haven’t lived in NY since the late 70s. I subscribe to the WaPo and while their stable of conservative twits in the Opinion section is far too large, I still prefer the WaPo’s take and coverage of issues. The NY Times? I wouldn’t buy it to line a bird cage with.
Elizabelle
@Brachiator: Great comment.
What do you think of the LA Times these days? I have a sub to them, too.
Barbara
@L85NJGT:
Well, maybe, but this view definitely misses the mark regarding the racial implications of what Cotton was calling for. It is not too strong to say that Cotton will ALWAYS support the use of violence, even as a prophylactic to prevent peaceful demonstrators from becoming violent because Cotton can be sure — just as most NYT employees, and certainly those inhabiting the senior ranks can be sure — that the violence of an occupying military will not be directed at them. They aren’t even likely to drive through Tom Cotton’s neighborhood. Not to understand that Cotton is calling for military force in a context where it will be used primarily against African Americans and will never affect people like him except maybe to enhance his own power is to show serious blindness about race in the United States and to lack moral credibility about what it will take to make progress.
And just to elaborate, what if Cotton had proposed the use of military force on college campuses? Do you think the NYT editor would have published that? No, because he would have seen its horrible implications for people like him and his family. It would be like publishing someone calling for the expulsion of Jews from America. Why can’t he see that in the same way when it comes to a thinly veiled threat to use violence against African Americans?
Elizabelle
And, WRT Trump and the Second Amendment and guarding Virginia’s potatoes (cuz, you know, Virginia is all about potatoes):
Alexandra Petri, the WaPost’s satirist, who deserves a Pulitzer, and soon. I hope the use of humor does not deter the Pulitzer committee, because it is the jesters and late night comics who are more likely to tell the truth these days. A diary:
I am a simple potato guardian who needs my Second Amendment rights
Brachiator
@Elizabelle:
Sadly, the LA Times is dying. Good journalism, but too few people are signing up for digital subscriptions. They laid off staff some weeks ago, and I believe that some reporters are now working 4 day week. The lockdown exacerbated problems. The new publisher is doing all he can, but it might not be enough.
I have not seen anyone read a physical copy of the newspaper in the past few years. Except in a hotel.
Example. Some people might buy a copy of the newspaper to read while eating at a coffee shop or diner. Cellphones replaced that, and people are doing Facebook and Twitter. They might run across a Times story, but never subscribe or even visit the site. Sadly, much the same with other newspapers.
pajaro
I think the New York Times is uniquely bad. They missed Watergate entirely, and then tried to make up with the fake-scandal Whitewater, which they shilled for for years. Their columnists (MoDo and Gail Collins in particular) were absolutely central to creating the narrative that George W was a manly man who you would want to have a beer with and that Al Gore was a dishonest girly-man. They gave us Judith Miller, whose likes on Iraq contributed to just untold damage. They killed a story on the “Terrorist Surveillance Program” illegally initiated by Bush, because they did not want to “influence” the 2004 election. Their coverage of the 2016 election was beyond horrible. Even though they were a freaking New York paper, they didn’t do squat to publicize Trump’s criminality, predation, fraudulent conduct and utter incapacity at what he claimed was his job. They ignored the Trump Foundation scam and, when their investigations of the Clinton Foundation didn’t show anything, they ran with the “questions are raised” story, with the rest of the press. You all know about their relentless hyping of “her emails.” You also know that, weeks after the election, when Trump made an unsecured cell phone conversation with a foreign leader from the dining room of Mar A Lago, they didn’t think it was much of a problem. Their centrist columnists, MoDo, friedman, Brooks, are uniquely awful. Unlike at least some other parts of the media, they have never ever done a fair accounting of their role in bringing us to where we are.
Here’s the thing: In 2016, members of the public for whom “corruption” was a defining issue in their votes were more likely to vote for Trump than Clinton. The New York Times played a role in making that decision for members of the public seem something other than insane.
Barbara
@pajaro: Their political coverage is atrocious, partly because they have settled for hiring gossip girls and people striving to make the most of their Republican upbringing.
planetjanet
@Elizabelle: Thank you for the link. That was a great press conference. I love that ancestors of both Robert E. Lee and Barbara Johns were there and offered their support. This gives me hope, something I need as I see so many being hurt.
SC54HI
Haven’t given up our FTFNYT sub yet — international news, Krugman, books & arts reviews are worthwhile.
Have been subscribing to WaPo for several years and they are generally good, sometimes great, and in areas you wouldn’t expect. Petri’s satire is indeed Pulitzer-worthy but another columnist whose work I’ve enjoyed is Robin Givhan, their fashion critic. She has written what is probably one of the better analyses of the infamous Bible photo-op.
Another Scott
@pajaro: +1. Excellent comment. That’s about where I am.
And as long as people keep giving them money and clicks, they won’t change.
To be clear – yes, the newspaper business model has lots of problems and most – even the excellent ones – probably won’t survive as going concerns (at least not in something like their current forms). But FTFNYT. They’re a malevolent force in US politics no matter how great Will Shortz and Paul Krugman may be (and are). The NYT damages the country.
Cheers,
Scott.
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: Like fuckwad Mattis, a day late and a dollar short. When they could have actually done something, they didn’t. “Struggling” now gets you shit.
prostratedragon
@pajaro:
Yeah, all that. Plus, their constant display of high-end lifestyles as if that were all that their readers need be concerned with got cloying years ago. And, back when I lived there, if you wanted to keep abreast of the local scene, political or otherwise, the Times was the last place to look —in New York, but hardly of it, except maybe in some ornamental ways.
Soprano2
@Archon: I think this describes more than half of the people I work with. They don’t mind a dictator as long as that dictator does things they like. My area is about 65% Trump supporting, so I get a good look at them. I’m driving my Trump-loving friends on FB crazy right now by talking about how cowardly Trump is, how he’s a girly-man. I know that’s offensive to many, but it’s the language they understand, and it drives them crazy because in their hearts they know it’s true! They know he’s what they would call a “girly man” who spends more time on his hair and makeup than most women do and has never done a day’s work in his life where he’d get his hands dirty. You know, the kind of man they scorn and mock as being out-of-touch with the “common man” if he’s a Democrat. I’m truly amazed at the Photoshopped pics they post of him as a tough motorcycle dude, or tough cowboy. That’s really how they see him. They cannot acknowledge what he really is at all.
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
Well, when you’re a teenager away in school, and able to drink freely, no telling what stupid kinds of stuff you might get up to. That’s how I see that whole situation. And frats, they become self-enlarging centers of outrageous behavior.
bcwbcw
One thing you can do if you have a regular subscription is to put your account on “vacation hold” – you can still read online but don’t have to give them any money. The only drawback is having to put it back on hold every six months.
A bit sleazy but payback for thirty years of paying to support journalism while getting repeatedly slapped in the face: Judy Miller? Email “shadows” on the Hillary Clinton campaign? Jared and Ivanka as moderating influences? Tongue baths by Haberman for whoever she’s taking dictation from? One of the comments praised their science coverage but they continued the false equivalence of denialists and scientists for a very long time of climate change and still don’t seem to understand that things are either true or false for an awful lot of answered questions like vaccines.
Subsole
@Hungry Joe:
So as a media man, what exactly is their deal, then? Their politics desk has been FUKT since at least the Clintons. Like, vendetta-grade animus.
BruceFromOhio
I look forward to the editorials on kicking little old ladies, and shooting NYTimes editorial board members in the face.
Subsole
@Soprano2: I see a lot of that where I am. He is what they would be, if the genetic lottery broke just slightly different. And who wants to be that?
Worse yet, who wants everyone to know that’s what you are?
eddie blake
@Brachiator:
nine people accused franken of behavior that was out of bounds. were they ALL plants?
Barbara
@J R in WV: Herring was in that category. He used black face at a frat party where he and a few friends were doing covers of one of their favorite vocal groups. That was stupid and clueless but basically done without malice.
It’s still not clear whether Northam was the person in the blackface picture, but the picture was in a medical school yearbook published by a private student group. Eventually, the medical school proper sued the group to prevent them from using the name of the school because, let’s just say, this sort of thing was par for the course. That’s not high school hijinks by any stretch.
James E Powell
@Brachiator:
I would call it Trump & McConnell’s dramatic acceleration of the Republicans’ 20 year plan to dismantle democracy. And I don’t think they are missing the story; they are partners with the Republicans.
James E Powell
@eddie blake:
@Brachiator:
I am begging you both. Please. I’m on my knees here.
m.glafmer
Paul Krugman. The only reason.
Elizabelle
@pajaro: Word. Excellent comment. And good catch re smearing Hillary with “corruption” to the benefit of Trump.
Brachiator
@eddie blake:
That’s odd. I never said anything about Franken’s accusers.
And what does “out of bounds” mean?
And we went directly from accusation to removal.
This is acceptable to you?
Brachiator
@James E Powell:
This gets interesting. I think the GOP are the stooges of apolitical plutocrats. Trump, who stumbled into the game, is out for himself. But he is a natural, if bumbling, autocrat.
But Trump also instinctively understood that a good chunk of the American people believe that democracy means what straight white evangelical leaning people want, and fuck everybody else.
The NYT executives believe that they will always be around, no matter who is in power.
Elizabelle
How perfect, for a post about Baquet, AG Sulzberger, and the NY Times stepping into it. It’s a much longer article, and worth a read. Journalists take this seriously; three said their sources refused to send them information after seeing the paper publish the Cotton op ed. From the WaPost:
Amid staff uproar, New York Times publisher defends choice to run Tom Cotton op-ed urging military incursion into U.S. cities
A.G. Sulzberger said the opinions page is dedicated to airing a “diversity” of voices that differ from the paper’s editorial stance — but pledged to hear concerns from journalists who called it dangerous.
WaterGirl
@eddie blake:
Thank you, Thin Black Duke
Elizabelle
A link to the NY Times covering its issues with the Tom Cotton op ed is embedded in the WaPost link.
Senator’s ‘Send In the Troops’ Op-Ed in The Times Draws Online Ire
Staff members at the newspaper, including a Pulitzer winner, denounced an opinion essay by Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas, calling for a military response to protests.
The Times is bravely not yet allowing reader comments. Article starts off with weak sauce. And then:
The distinction between opinion pieces and news articles is sometimes lost on readers, who may see an Op-Ed — promoted on the same home page — as just another Times article.
Could you be more patronizing than that??
The WaPost story is way better, if you want to use a click on anything.
Brachiator
@Elizabelle:
Looking forward to their op-ed piece on the Joys of Autocracy.
eddie blake
@Brachiator:
“out of bounds” = he was a grabby, handsy asshole with a pleasant demeanor.
“we” didn’t do anything. HE went from accusation to RESIGNATION.
now, on the suggestion of some of the other, WISER posters, i’m gonna drop it.
Elizabelle
@Brachiator: Thank you for your comments re LA Times.
I think I need to howl more at the NY Times. Email them. May or may not change them, but at least they’ll register the dissent or comment.
Another Scott
A delicious chaser…
(Gotta click it.)
(via Popehat)
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
Guess what??!
They’re shameless.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@Another Scott: I am loving it. The FTF NY Times and Tom Cotton get a black eye out of this one. Cotton, of course, will love it because — culture war!
NY Times:
New York Times Says Senator’s Op-Ed Did Not Meet Standards
After a staff uproar, The Times says the editing process was “rushed.” Senator Tom Cotton’s “Send In the Troops” essay is now under review.