Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

The next time the wall wtreet journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

I did not have telepathic declassification on my 2022 bingo card.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

The revolution will be supervised.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

No one could have predicted…

T R E 4 5 O N

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

A dilettante blog from the great progressive state of West Virginia.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

You are here: Home / Politics / Roger Stone Sentence Commuted

Reader Interactions

245Comments

  2. 2.

    hells littlest angel

    Once again, Susan Collins is shown to be  right in thinking Trump learned a lesson.

  6. 6.

    Jeffro

    keep ’em coming, trumpov…all we want in November is no doubt in anyone’s minds as to what you’re alllllll about…

  7. 7.

    MazeDancer

    In the official WH press release: “Roger Stone is a victim of the Russian hoax..”

    SCOTUS says “You are not King”

    Trump: Just watch

    GOP: Silence

  12. 12.

    germy

    That Trump commuted Stone's sentence is crime enough. That the NYT had a bunch of celebrity journos write it up is as big a crime.

    — emptywheel (@emptywheel) July 11, 2020

  14. 14.

    hitchhiker

    LC Vindman bullied out of his career for honesty, R Stone rewarded for a lifetime of cheating.

    American citizens not allowed to enter Canada, Europe, the UK, or Mexico.

    Hang on, friends. Only a few months until we can start the long slog of shoveling the shit out of this barn.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    @Raven Onthill: I know this is ultimately the GOP’s fault for enabling this kkkorrupt kkklown…

    …but the Dems really should have been holding rocket-docket impeachment hearings every week.  Rack it up, make a point, at least compete in the news cycle if nothing else.

    All I keep seeing is “trumpov said x, trumpov said y” from our national snooze media.

    Let’s go, Congress!  Hustle up with that Barr impeachment and Russian bounty probe.  You don’t have to cross every ‘t’ and dot every ‘i’.  Just make the Ill Douche the first president to be impeached multiple times, and this Senate the first to acquit an obvious criminal multiple times.

  16. 16.

    germy

    @hitchhiker:

    #BREAKING: Press Sec. Kayleigh McEnany refuses to comment on Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman retirement: "With Col. Vindman, I'm not going to focus or comment on a former junior employee." pic.twitter.com/3e9xpOtoE5— The Hill (@thehill) July 9, 2020

    Note on @PressSec's "junior employee" dig: A lieutenant colonel is an officer with 16-22 years of experience. In a line unit, a Lt. Col. is basically a king or queen. But it *is* low-ranking in the political world. This is a very specific insult aimed at disparaging the military. https://t.co/uv0iUEbynQ— Brandon Friedman (@BFriedmanDC) July 10, 2020

  17. 17.

    Wilson Heath

    This from the man who still thinks that five railroaded teenagers should have been executed.

  18. 18.

    MisterForkbeard

    Wasn’t Barr warning that doing this or a pardon would cause a revolt in DOJ?

    I guess we’ll see what happens there.

  21. 21.

    Wag

    Let’s look on the bright side.  At least Stone is still a convicted felon.  Commuting the sentence isn’t the same as a pardon.

    But give Trump time. He’ll no doubt consummate his relationship with Stone of end up pardoning the mf’er.

    fuck ‘em.

  24. 24.

    WaterGirl

    I want every single Republican senator to be asked this question by every single reporter:

    How do you feel about your impeachment vote to acquit Donald Trump now?

  25. 25.

    Leto

    @WaterGirl: This is the equivalent of letting your dog shit on your neighbors lawn, all while your neighbor is standing on the porch watching it happen, not cleaning it up, and walking off.

    At this point I don’t care how much they howl, fuck looking back, fuck the “unity” approach. I know Biden can’t make that pitch, but I hope he gives free reign to whoever he appoints as AG to prosecute each and every motherfucker here. Just… rage. Fuck’em!

  26. 26.

    WaterGirl

    @MisterForkbeard: Right!  That’s what I heard this week on either Lawfare or Pod Save America – that the entire senior staff of the DOJ threatened to walk out if Trump pardoned Roger Stone.

    I assume commuting his sentence would be no different.

  28. 28.

    MisterForkbeard

    You know. 3 minutes ago I was annoyed at this and kind of amused. Now I’m really angry.

    I hope the DOJ drops a metric fuckton of info on how it’s been politicized after this. Mass resignations. Biden should publicly pledge that anyone who comes forward with evidence of this disgrace of an administration will be protected in his administration.

    We can’t let these fuckers get away with this stuff. We just can’t. Not if we want to remain a democracy.

  29. 29.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    “He knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably. But I didn’t.”

    ~ Roger Stone

    How could you turn on him if he was innocent?

  30. 30.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    im Miller @Timodc48m
    So I guess the biggest outstanding question about tonight’s news is, what does Roger Stone have on Donald Trump that Paul Manafort doesn’t?

    you know who must really be wondering about that? Manafort

  31. 31.

    James E Powell

    @WaterGirl:

    I read earlier this week that Barr (I think it was Barr) was desperately trying to keep Trump from doing this very thing.

    And, no doubt, Ivanka was against it.

  33. 33.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I saw a comment on some twitter thread (no idea which one, and don’t feel like trying to find it) that suggested that with a commutation, Stone can’t be compelled to testify against Trump; if it had been a pardon, he would be subject to testifying.

    IANAL. Decidedly not. But would one of our fine legal minds care to comment on this, and if there are other significant differences between a pardon and a commutation?

  34. 34.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Leto:

    This is the equivalent of letting your dog shit on your neighbors lawn, all while your neighbor is standing on the porch watching it happen, not cleaning it up, and walking off.

    Wait, that’s wrong?  //

  35. 35.

    James E Powell

    @PPCLI:

    Tucker Carlson’s main writer (until his sudden resignation a few hours ago) spent years making unbelievably vile racist posts to a 4-chan type posting board:

    But we’ll never know if that attitude had any impact on his writing for Tucker Carlson, will we?

  38. 38.

    jimmiraybob

    @hells littlest angel:

    Once again, Susan Collins is shown to be right in thinking Trump learned a lesson.

    Is there a BJ calendar for everyday being “Today he turns the corner” day?

  40. 40.

    lgerard

     

    There is one law, one beautiful law*

     

    *exceptions apply, consult your local republican party

  41. 41.

    jc

    My first thought: Skunks of a feather…

    Second thought: Trump’s Profiles in Cowardice. If Stone’s conviction is such an injustice, why the sneaky, chicken-shit Friday night under-the-radar timing of cutting him loose?

  42. 42.

    Hungry Joe

    I knew this was coming. I knew he was going to do it. But it makes me feel physically sick anyway. Karma ain’t a bitch — karma ain’t squat, because karma doesn’t exist. This vile, putrescent slab of suet will die old and in his own bed. As will Dick Cheney. As will …

    ”Karma.” Don’t even.

  44. 44.

    kindness

    I don’t think conservatives/Republicans will do anything about it. I doubt any of them will be willing to comment on it. It’ll make good political ads come fall. It isn’t over though for Trump. He’s going to go nuts as I think he’s seeing he’s a one term president and won’t be around long. He’s going to take everything he can as well as things he shouldn’t.

    Repercussions? Might help us in November. Maybe.

  46. 46.

    jonas

    @WaterGirl: How do you feel about your impeachment vote to acquit Donald Trump now?

    They don’t give a shit. SATSQ.

    Oh, except Susan Collins will surely find this “very troubling.”

  47. 47.

    hitchhiker

    @germy:

    McEneny is my older daughter’s age. I read today that her parents’ business got big $$$$$$ from the PPP funds. I read a bio of her that described her devotion to Christ. I read that she’s worth millions herself. I read that we taxpayers are paying her a big fat salary for lying to us and looking cute & sassy while doing so.

    I comfort myself with the knowledge that these people think they’re protecting their faith, when in fact everything they do reminds us that they’re lying & grinning about their jesus, and that the result of all their grifting will be a church that shrinks before our eyes.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Leto:

    but I hope he gives free reign to whoever he appoints as AG to prosecute each and every motherfucker here. Just… rage. Fuck’em!

    Congressional hearings first. A Biden DoJ can enforce subpoenas. Going for prosecutions first sets up another Fitzgerald/Mueller scenario– grand jury secrecy, insufficient evidence to meet the standard, et cetera (IANAL). If they want to take the fifth, make them do it on television. I think retroactive impeachment is a thing. Barr claims not to care about the judgment of history– I’ll bet he’d care about being the first ex-cabinet secretary (?), definitely the first AG, impeached. And impeachment is the standard. I suspect Barr is too good a lawyer to leave any fingerprints, or at the very least not to cover his ass with the kinds of letters and memos that would confuse a jury or persuade a junior Scalia appellate judge.

  51. 51.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @jonas:

    Oh, except Susan Collins will surely find this “very troubling.”

    Also too, “disappointing.” And “concerning.”

  53. 53.

    WaterGirl

    @jonas: I’m sure they don’t give a shit.  But I’d like to see them go on record in July – during the pandemic, with millions of people getting sick and bounties on our troops – either evading the question or saying they feel good about their vote.

  57. 57.

    janesays

    @Jeffro: Conducting an impeachment process that will indisputably end with another senate acquittal during an election year in the midst of the worst pandemic this country has experienced in a century would be literally the most politically tone-deaf thing the Democrats could possibly do right now. It would accomplish exactly nothing other than getting to pat ourselves on the back for impeaching him twice (both of which times he will have been quickly acquitted by the senate). Not one voter would be gained by doing that. Those who are with Trump are sticking with him until the bitter end. People who post in places like this don’t need to be convinced of Trump’s criminality. The mushy middle would see it as a huge waste of time that accomplishes nothing meaningful. Nobody is going to say, “Well, I was seriously considering voting for Mango Man in November, but now that he’s been impeached twice, I just can’t bring myself to do that.”

    Let Trump burn himself to the ground, and sit back and enjoy the show. The electorate will take care of excising the republic of this cancer 115 days from now.

    When the Biden administration comes in, then we go after him and his co-conspirators with the full force of the DOJ.

  58. 58.

    jonas

    I’m not going into a twitter search right now, but I bet the “There’s Always a Tweet” finds on this will be su-PERB.

  60. 60.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Hungry Joe:

    I knew this was coming. I knew he was going to do it. But it makes me feel physically sick anyway. Karma ain’t a bitch — karma ain’t squat, because karma doesn’t exist. This vile, putrescent slab of suet will die old and in his own bed. As will Dick Cheney. As will …

    Not unless someone takes matters into their own hands, at any rate

    Any way, I think Trump will be dealing with legal troubles for the rest of his life

  61. 61.

    James E Powell

    @kindness:

    Repercussions? Might help us in November. Maybe.

    We have to stop hoping for repercussions other than the election. The Republicans are not going to do anything to harm Trump because if he collapses, they will definitely collapse with him. They are holding fast onto their ~40% ignorant, hateful bigot bloc and hoping from some meteor-like event that damages Biden enough that they can win the electoral college again.They really don’t care how much corruption it will take, they are going to do it because if they get hit with a trifecta, they could be out for a while. It would be the first time since 1970 that the Democrats had a big year for reapportionment.

  62. 62.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Leto:

    At this point I don’t care how much they howl, fuck looking back, fuck the “unity” approach. I know Biden can’t make that pitch, but I hope he gives free reign to whoever he appoints as AG to prosecute each and every motherfucker here. Just… rage. Fuck’em! 

    Amen!

  63. 63.

    jk

    Is this the mother of all Friday night news dumps?

    In no way is this the mother of all Friday might news dumps.  That will happen on the final Friday before Election Day.

  64. 64.

    James E Powell

    @germy:

    Not sure what emptywheel is complaining about. Who did she expect the NYT to assign to write the article ?

  68. 68.

    Kay

    The level of corruption is disgusting.

    It’s for all the marbles in November. These people stay in power we’re well on our way to failed state. You can’t have a functioning democracy with this level of corruption.

  69. 69.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @James E Powell:

    The Republicans are not going to do anything to harm Trump because if he collapses, they will definitely collapse with him. They are holding fast onto their ~40% ignorant, hateful bigot bloc and hoping from some meteor-like event that damages Biden enough that they can win the electoral college again.They really don’t care how much corruption it will take,

    Doing that could result in mass revolt across the United States. And do they honestly think the rest of the world isn’t going to call them out for an obviously fraudulent, illegitimate election? EU countries could and should apply sanctions to the US in such an event

  72. 72.

    jonas

    @hitchhiker:I read today that her parents’ business got big $$$$$$ from the PPP funds. I read a bio of her that described her devotion to Christ.

    Truly a denizen of the Drained Swamp™.

  75. 75.

    Cameron

    What else was Trump going to do?  There probably isn’t anybody else in the world who knows more about the dirt on him than Stone.  No way he’d go down without taking Trump along for the ride.  And the Mighty Uprising at DOJ?  I’m not staying up tonight to wait for it.

  76. 76.

    Nicole

    God, it’s so fucking exhausting.  And I don’t think any of these players will ever see justice for their actions.  Because that’s how it goes.  Trump’s tax returns kept effectively hidden, Stone effectively freed; they all get away with it.  Trump has been getting away with breaking the law for half a century now, and he will continue to do so for as many years as we’re still stuck with his goddamn presence on this planet.  And then we’ll have his kids and his grandkids.

    I am very much not feeling good to be an American.  I haven’t been since 2016, and I don’t know that I’ll ever feel good about it again.

  77. 77.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Cameron:

    And the Mighty Uprising at DOJ?  I’m not staying up tonight to wait for it.

    Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

  79. 79.

    Kay

    They wholly succeeded in both the crime and then the cover-up. They beat the entire federal prosecution apparatus. Got away with it.

    Quite the lesson for rich and powerful criminals. The white collar crime spree continues unabated and no one seems to able to stop them.

  80. 80.

    Baud

    Rachel saying Barr removed EDNY US attorney.

    ETA: Never mind.  Removal happened before.  New replacement named.

  84. 84.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Nicole:

    Trump’s tax returns kept effectively hidden, Stone effectively freed; they all get away with it.  Trump has been getting away with breaking the law for half a century now, and he will continue to do so for as many years as we’re still stuck with his goddamn presence on this planet.  And then we’ll have his kids and his grandkids.

    Trump and the GOP aren’t 10 feet tall. They can be defeated. It’s a long way till November, but Trump is not doing well politically. It’s unlikely to get any better for him or them in the meantime. Just wait until the fall when schools open up.

    This is just smashing and grabbing on the way out

  85. 85.

    Kay

    @Cameron:

    And the Mighty Uprising at DOJ?

    That’s the worst part. I know it’s hard to leave a job, but Jesus Christ. These people are educated and skilled. We’re not talking about line workers in a factory. They’ll find work. NONE of them quit? Is there anywhere they draw the line?
    How many whistleblowers have there been? Three? Out of how many thousands?

  89. 89.

    mali muso

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. When this is over, we need our own version of the Nuremberg trials.

  90. 90.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Kay: I’m giving them a few hours (maybe the weekend) to quit.

    If I was them, I’d go into the office and copy all of my e-mails and incriminating data and THEN resign. Wait for a Democratic administration (hopefully January) and drop a big pile of evidence on them.

    But the real lesson here is that Republicans are a giant crime family. They break the law to get elected and then use that power to protect themselves and hurt their enemies. They can’t ever be allowed to call themselves the “law and order” party again. They’re corrupt motherfuckers, one and all.

  91. 91.

    Nicole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):     Trump and the GOP aren’t 10 feet tall. They can be defeated.

    But they’ll never pay any legal price, and they’ve broken the law, over and over and over again.  I don’t fucking care that we’re likely to see a blue wave in November.  I mean, I fucking care, but give it 2 years and the media beating the drums on some made-up scandal for the Democrats so they can prove that “both sides do it” and come 2022 the GOP takes Congress again and even if they don’t, none of the Trump circle will ever pay any sort of real legal consequence for any of the things they’ve done; they’ll continue collecting more money than most of us will ever see in our lives, and writing books that people will run out to buy and getting consulted on TV every week for their fucking useless opinions on the state of the country and it just fucking sucks.

    And I feel like a stupid rube that I made it almost to 50 years old before I really understood that the rule of law is bullshit and always has been.  The rich and powerful do whatever the fuck they want and the rest of us keep our heads down until we die.

  92. 92.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Baud: I just want to kill brain cells and not think about it at this point. Got a handle of vodka on hand that I was considering pouring down the drain, maybe I’ve got a better use for it.

  94. 94.

    Kay

    These career prosecutors and investigators have stood by and watched for 3 and a 1/2 years as Donald Trump and his sleazy cronies make an absolute mockery of their work and none of them DO anything. They continue to take orders. They don’t even have the balls to quit, let alone put up some kind of coordinated protest by joining together and opposing him publicly.  Thousands of hours of work in this, and he throws it right back in their faces. Blatantly. Publicly. Because by now he knows none of them will do shit.

  95. 95.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay:  Are you suggesting that everyone who works at the DOJ is complicit? Even those whose work goes nowhere near the departments that handle public corruption and white collar crime?

  96. 96.

    TS (the original)

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

    With the levels of unemployment due to the pandemic and a new administration coming – would you resign from your job?

    Trump is going to work for the rest of his disgusting life (which hopefully will be short) to bring down anyone who speaks or acts against him.

     

  97. 97.

    West of the Rockies

    I swear, sometimes TRMS is like self-flagellation to watch:  it’s all bad, it all sucks…

    Yes, I wish the damn-he’s-homely Stone got what was coming to him.  I get that Barr prying the Eastern District of New York head prosecutor outs sucks.  Manafort is out. Everything sucks.

    Bring out a guest who can address how this will eventually backfire.  I’m just tired of this “we’re all gonna die!” shit.

  98. 98.

    Another Scott

    @Nicole: In addition, according to Politico, Roger gets to continue legal appeals to contest his conviction.

    I’m sure Barr will resign any minute now, just like he said he was going to do in February if Donnie didn’t quit interfering with the DOJ’s prosecutions. Any minute!!

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  100. 100.

    Jay

    @Kay:

    just gutless, all of em Katie.

    in the tweet I posted, after beating a protestor unconsious, the KKKops charged the crowd.

    Every single KKKop kicked the unconsious protestor in the head, as they passed him lying helpless on the pavement. Over 50. Every single one of them.

    only a few rotten apples, right?

     

    gutless Generals, gutless CDC, goes way beyond Dumph.

  101. 101.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Nicole:

    But they’ll never pay any legal price, and they’ve broken the law, over and over and over again.  I don’t fucking care that we’re likely to see a blue wave in November.  I mean, I fucking care, but give it 2 years and the media beating the drums on some made-up scandal for the Democrats so they can prove that “both sides do it” and come 2022 the GOP takes Congress again and even if they don’t, none of the Trump circle will ever pay any sort of real legal consequence for any of the things they’ve done; they’ll continue collecting more money than most of us will ever see in our lives, and writing books that people will run out to buy and getting consulted on TV every week for their fucking useless opinions on the state of the country and it just fucking sucks.

    They will face legal consequences. The era of “Look forward, not back” is over

  102. 102.

    Cameron

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Perhaps in this case, past performance is not indicative of future results.  I’m sure when I wake up tomorrow, the unicorn standing next to my bed will be whispering in my ear that Bill Barr has fled the country and that an angry mob of Federal prosecutors has formed in front of the White House.  Or not.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I’m not a prosecutor but they are. This is their work. Surely some of them believe in it, believe following laws is important and the work they do is vital. They’re not even going to defend it?

    If they won’t defend themselves or their own work why would anyone trust them to defend the United States, their client?

  104. 104.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Bring out a guest who can address how this will eventually backfire.  I’m just tired of this “we’re all gonna die!” shit.

    So am I, honestly

  105. 105.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @West of the Rockies: FWIW I am in favor of a few posts around here talking about what priorities we should be setting after a win in November.  No counting chickens is one thing, but not being ready to push for and support good things when we have a chance is dangerous too. Setting priorities has value; we can’t fix everything at once.

  106. 106.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @TS (the original):

    Trump is going to work for the rest of his disgusting life (which hopefully will be short) to bring down anyone who speaks or acts against him.

    Didn’t work against his niece, Mary

  107. 107.

    Nicole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    They will face legal consequences. The era of “Look forward, not back” is over.

    AHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Good one.

    Just keep our heads down until we die.  That’s our job.

  108. 108.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I do think Biden’s people will probably prosecute and/or release information about the corruption here, but I don’t know that they CAN prosecute a lot of this stuff.

    Trump is blatantly protecting people who committed crimes for him. It’s incitement to crime and promising future obstruction of justice but I don’t think that’s actually prosecutable for Trump. Unless there’s a lot of hidden information and Trump’s toadies were sitting on a ton of evidence of their own lawbreaking, I think we’re only going to get a few people.

  110. 110.

    Cacti

    Police state and riot squads for the poor, get out of jail free cards for the political and economic elite.

    If Biden loses in November, the United States is dead as functioning democratic republic.

  111. 111.

    Skepticat

    @germy: With Col. Vindman, I’m not going to focus or comment on a former junior employee.”

    This made me want to claw though the computer screen to get my hands around her throat. The only savings grace is that vets and service members—well, anyone with any class or sense—ought to be even more offended and might actual figure out what Dump and his crew really think of them.

  113. 113.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Trump and the GOP aren’t 10 feet tall.

    Hopefully, Trump and a bunch of his congressional enablers will be beaten on Election Day.

    Regardless of the 2020 election results, Trump will have set a horrible fucking precedent by serving 8 years in office without having publicly disclosed his income tax returns.  It’s simply unforgivable that he was allowed to get away with this nonsense.

  115. 115.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Kay: Like I said, I’m giving them the day (or the weekend) to take action. They can’t stop Barr and Trump from doing this – they’re the boss and they have the legal authority to do it.

    But they can gather evidence and walk out. I hope some of them loudly quit tonight. And I hope more of them go into the office and collect their own evidence and THEN loudly quit over it. That’s all the can do to defend it.

  116. 116.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Cameron:

    The sarcasm was unnecessary. Maybe there won’t be mass resignations at the DOJ, but this is just one more nail in Trump’s coffin and he’s too fucking stupid to realize it. Why do you think Barr didn’t want Trump to commute Stone’s sentence in the first place?

  117. 117.

    Mallard Filmore

    @Kay:

     

    These people are educated and skilled. We’re not talking about line workers in a factory. They’ll find work. NONE of them quit?

    My unsophisticated hope is that they have sent out letters to Congress asking about whistle blower protection to disclose the wonders they have seen.

  120. 120.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Cacti: Goku mentioned it earlier, but I’m pretty sure this is how Presidents and Politicians start getting assassinated. Someone is going to flip out at the blatant injustice and corruption and go after republican officials.

    It’s not a good thing. But it might be literally the only thing people feel they CAN do. When the law can’t provide justice, some other mechanism is going to be tried.

    Does anyone else remember when Republicans screamed about how awful Democrats were because people booed them in restaurants or told them to eat elsewhere? That wasn’t enough. They’re going to do more. Some of it is inevitably going to be violent.

  121. 121.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    @hitchhiker: You know, I mentioned a Twitter link to a fellow talking about Simpson’s Paradox, suggesting that we might have been seeing cases, and deaths, drop across the entire US, but that while the big hot spots were petering out, new hot spots were being created.

    The claim was (and it seems very likely to be correct) that, e.g., Florida, Texas, and Arizona (etc.) were starting to show upticks in deaths, roughly as expected from higher caseloads. But the increase were hidden if you looked at the entire nation, because the previous hot spots were showing larger decreases, than the new ones were showing increases.

    (Equivalently: the folks going 90mph were slowing down, the folks going 10mph were speeding up; the average speed wasn’t increasing, because 90-and-slowing overwhelms 10-but-accelerating; however, the folks who *were* speeding up are approaching ever-more-dangerous speeds.)

    This is three days of significantly higher deaths, to accompany the ungodly number of new cases, which no, Mr. President, is *NOT* the result of more testing, you fucking moron. Oh, were those last three word in my ‘out loud’ voice? Sorry, let me correct that: Donald, you’re a fucking moron, and the reason we see more cases is more people are infected. There; that’s much better.

    (Anyone got some rotgut? saying “Mr President” has left a truly foul and disgusting taste in my mouth for some 3 years and 6 months, and I won’t waste *good* whisk(e)y washing that taste out. Don’t know why the hell I did that above.)

    And you know what? it’s *extremely* appropriate for this to be “Simpson’s Paradox, since we’ve got Homer J. Trump running things.

    (Apologies: Homer Simpson is frequently callous, often clueless, and always foolish, but, after having exhausted all other options, will *probably* do the right thing; that makes him a far more moral creature than Trump. They do both share the same sense of entitlement, but it’s only humorous sometimes for one of them.)

    (Sorry, Hitchhiker; I kinda spring-boarded off your response.)

  122. 122.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m giving them the weekend. We might also just not hear about it when it happens. Maybe people already did, we can’t quite know yet – the news has only been out less than 2 hours.

    I really, REALLY hope you’re not right.

  123. 123.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Nicole:

    History is full of people who refused to simply keep their heads down until they died. Nothing is guaranteed, but nothing is set in stone either. We have to try. People are fed up and this is a real chance to take advantage and make life better for everyone

  124. 124.

    The Moar You Know

    Flew back from Scotland on Jan 2, 2020 and was dumped in some shithole country by British Airways.  I keep calling them to fix their mistake and they keep telling me they left me at the right place.  Bullshit.

  128. 128.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Nicole:

    When someone does one of those hilarious, endless HAHAHAHA things with no spaces it fucks up the formatting of the entire post for people on certain devices. Not so bad reading comments (the page expands to fit the HAHA onto one line), but it really fucks up the comment window, which also expands to the new page width and becomes difficult to work with on a smaller display (e.g., phone or tablet).

  129. 129.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Gin & Tonic: I don’t.

    We’ll see some resignations or action out of this. It might be woefully inadequate, but I think we’ll see something.

  131. 131.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    In January, when (God willing) Biden takes office, I don’t want to hear any of this stuff about letting the past go and looking forward to heal the country. If the country is ever going to heal from the damage that’s been done, these people need to face consequences

  132. 132.

    Fair Economist

    Doesn’t Barr *want* the entire DOJ to quit? Then he could replace every last person with a Republican crook, and when Biden became president they’d be protected by civil service laws. Barr could take over the DOJ for a decade or more that way. Mass resignations would be his dream come true.

  134. 134.

    Nicole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    People are fed up and this is a real chance to take advantage and make life better for everyone.

    And what, exactly, can any of us do to see that legal consequences are paid by the rich and powerful for breaking the law?  Trump has been doing it for 50 fucking years and yet to see a single consequence.  The US gov’t, once Democrats are back in power, aren’t going to do jackshit because it costs money, and these people have access to more money for their legal defenses than the gov’t  has to spend on prosecuting them.  They will all die old people in their beds, wealthy and comfortable, with their long records of cruelty, illegality and gluttony safely behind them, never having had to pay any consequence for it.  Do you have the money to pursue legal recourse against these people?  I don’t.

    GWB showed it all when he was asked how his decisions would be seen 100 years from now and he replied in a hundred years we’d all be dead.  These people don’t fucking care, and they will never, ever pay any consequence that is of any matter to them.

    I freely admit I’m fucking despairing tonight, but I don’t see any way we ever see any justice levied at any of these people.  So much misery, so much thievery, and so much cruelty and it doesn’t matter. They get away with it.  Henry VIII died in his bed, so will Trump.

  136. 136.

    Kropacetic

    @Kay:That’s the worst part. I know it’s hard to leave a job, but Jesus Christ. These people are educated and skilled. We’re not talking about line workers in a factory. They’ll find work. NONE of them quit? Is there anywhere they draw the line?

    It’s possible they’re coordinating action for maximum effect.  Strike? Massive document leak? Orgy?

  137. 137.

    trollhattan

    We have a throwback hippie radio station in town and they’re playing “Maggot Brain” by Funkadelic.

    This is a perfect accompaniment to tonight’s news.

  138. 138.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @MisterForkbeard:

    That’s partly what I was alluding to. I just can’t see people simply accepting another narrow EC “win” for Trump, given the pandemic, the faltering economy, racial tensions, and the blatant corruption. I too don’t think possible violence is a good thing, but I fear it will be what more people turn to if things don’t improve.

    The PRC gets away with their totalitarianism becaus they’ve provided prosperity for a lot of their people

    We should not accept a Trump “win” and enlist the help of the international community. Republican officials and the federal government should be sanctioned

  140. 140.

    Nicole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): And just to be clear, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.  I really, really, really do.  I’d be fucking ecstatic to be wrong and I will take zero joy in being right.  If you are right and I am wrong about what happens come 2021 and Trump, or any of his cronies see legal consequences, I will eat crow with more joy than anyone has ever eaten crow with before or will again.

  142. 142.

    Emma from FL

    @Nicole: For God’s sake. You’re worrying me, truly. At this rate you’re going to end up suicidal. Or drive someone over the edge.

  143. 143.

    Raven Onthill

    My reaction to the broader picture. Cross-posted to Twitter and my blog:

    The USA is Constitutionally unable to deal with Presidential malfeasance. Andrew Jackson got away with sending the Tsalagi on the Trail of Tears, Andrew Johnson got away pardoning the Confederate traitors, Hayes let the South build Jim Crow, Wilson introduced Jim Crow to the Federal bureaucracy, Teddy Roosevelt invaded the Philippines because he felt like it, Nixon got away with treason, Reagan got away with treason, and Trump is getting away with treason.

    We need change. I haven’t figured out what kind of change is needed, but we need change.

  144. 144.

    Kropacetic

    @Omnes Omnibus: FWIW I am in favor of a few posts around here talking about what priorities we should be setting after a win in November.

    Hear, hear

  145. 145.

    Nicole

    @Emma from FL:    For God’s sake. You’re worrying me, truly. At this rate you’re going to end up suicidal. Or drive someone over the edge.

    I’m not suicidal, and anyone likely to be driven over the edge by the rantings of someone they’ve never met on the Internet is likely already in need of emotional assistance and support.  What I am is pissed as hell at a society that protects people born with money from consequences.  And pissed as hell at myself for having believed for so many years, that we were a nation of laws.  We aren’t.  And honestly, we’ve never been.  It’s always been about protecting the wealthy.

    I know, it’s scary when women get angry and so we accuse them of being suicidal or hysterical.  ;)

  146. 146.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @MisterForkbeard:

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    We’ll have to wait and see I guess

    @TS (the original):

    I have to imagine that his NDA is going to he declared null and void since she was deceived to settle

    @Nicole:

    I understand how you feel. Just imagine the odds the Democrats faced all through the Great Depression and then WW2. It looked pretty bleak at times, but they persevered and made a better country and world. Even if Trump doesn’t face legal consequences, he will be remembered as the worst President in US history. The vast majority of the country and the world hates his guts. He is a hated man and he will be remembered that way.

    His family? I don’t believe any of them have the political instincts Trump has and they certainly don’t have any charisma

  148. 148.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I would start with an autopen rescinding T’s executive orders.  But a new VRA would be near the top of my list.  Christ though, there’s a lot to do.

  151. 151.

    Emma from FL

    @Nicole: You know, I shouldn’t have worried, one woman to another. I apologize for having given a damn. Won’t do so again.

  152. 152.

    RSA

    @PPCLI: Wow, that had me going through a rabbit warren of connected links, including a Slate review of a Washington Date Lab with Neff as one of the players. Read a little; say, “OMG, what a douchebag;” repeat.

  154. 154.

    Cameron

    @Nicole: Actually, this is a nation of laws.  Except the people who wrote (write) them have very specific ideas on how they should be applied.

  155. 155.

    Nicole

    @Emma from FL:  Starting off a comment with “For God’s sake” is not expressing concern; it’s expressing exasperation.  Which you are TOTALLY entitled to.  But don’t pretend you were worried about my statements; you were annoyed by my statements. Which you are also totally entitled to be.

  157. 157.

    Jay

    A veto-proof majority of the Seattle city council has pledged to defund the Seattle Police Department by at least 50%.This doesn't mean the fight is over. But it does mean we're winning.— Spek the Lawless (@spekulation) July 10, 2020

  158. 158.

    Jeffro

    @janesays: Thanks but I don’t think any votes are moving in any direction but down for Donnie at this point – why not hang this around his neck, and the GOP Senators’ necks as well?  Let him stand tarnished for all time this way, AND “burn himself to the ground”.

    I think some Dems are just scared we’ll blow it if we actually go after justice here.  We should be laying a marker for administrations to come, as well as tarring trumpov with the charges he so richly deserves.

  159. 159.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Amir Khalid: Nope.  Unless they have a sunset provision, they continue until revoked, adjudicated illegal, or superseded by legislation.

  160. 160.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @TS (the original):

    Trump is going to work for the rest of his disgusting life (which hopefully will be short) to bring down anyone who speaks or acts against him.

    If Trump loses in November, he’ll have the wildest, craziest post-presidency we’ve ever seen. Remember that unwritten rule of etiquette for ex-presidents to not criticize their successors. You can toss that out the fucking window. Few things in life are certain, but Trump will certainly not go gentle into that good night. This asshole will be rage tweeting against Biden every goddamn day. As long as he lives, Trump will remain a malignant cancer in our politics.

  161. 161.

    Another Scott

    Kinda sorta relatedly – AlJazeera:

    World reacts to Turkey reconverting Hagia Sophia into a mosque

    UNESCO, Greece, Cyprus and church leaders among others express concern about changing status of the sixth-century site.

    President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared Istanbul’s iconic Hagia Sophia open to Muslim worship on Friday after a top court ruled the building’s conversion to a museum by modern Turkey’s founding statesman was illegal.

    Erdogan made his announcement, just an hour after the court ruling was revealed, despite international warnings not to change the status of the nearly 1,500-year-old monument, revered by Christians and Muslims alike.

    “The decision was taken to hand over the management of the Ayasofya Mosque … to the Religious Affairs Directorate and open it for worship,” the decision signed by Erdogan said.

    The UNESCO World Heritage Site in Istanbul, a magnet for tourists worldwide, was first constructed as a cathedral in the Christian Byzantine Empire but was converted into a mosque after the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople in 1453.

    […]

    Nothing like stirring up nationalism (73% of Turks support the change), religious fervor, and all the rest, to try to stay in power. Donnie is probably watching with admiration, trying to figure out if there’s a grand mosque somewhere in the US that he can take over…

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  162. 162.

    Jay

    Luckily, I have been balding for a long time and shaving my own head, so I don’t look like this,

    The hairy frog (Trichobatrachus robustus), also called horror frog or Wolverine frog, is found in Cameroon, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Nigeria, and possibly Angola. I think a haircut is in order. pic.twitter.com/OpMgzvKGGf— Nature and Science Zone (@NatureandScien4) July 9, 2020

  166. 166.

    lgerard

    Tucker Carlson’s top writer resigns after secretly posting racist and sexist remarks in online forum

    The top writer for Fox News host Tucker Carlson has for years been using a pseudonym to post bigoted remarks on an online forum that is a hotbed for racist, sexist, and other offensive content, CNN Business learned this week.

    Hard to believe, isn’t it?

  167. 167.

    CarolPW

    @Nicole: Emma is not the only one thinking you were approaching suicidal and/or encouraging others to be.

    ETA: encouraging is the wrong word, prompting might be better. Toxic anyway.

  169. 169.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Another Scott:

    73% of Turks support the change

    Is this a Turkish government sponsored poll or something?

    It’s a shame what Turkey has sunk to. Though hardly the worst thing the country has ever done

  170. 170.

    Kropacetic

    @Jeffro: I think some Dems are just scared we’ll blow it if we actually go after justice here.

    At a minimum, there should be comprehensive investigations. We already know some avenues of inquiry that are likely to bear fruit.  And if it is fruitful, make a fucking show of it.  Make sure the truth of the Trump administration gets at least as much coverage as the years of lies.

    If this turns out as I expect, prosecutions would naturally arise.

  171. 171.

    Bill Arnold

    Direct link to wingnutty statement:
    Statement from the Press Secretary Regarding Executive Grant of Clemency for Roger Stone, Jr. (July 10, 2020)

    Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime.

    That’ll be enormously tempting to any holders of such evidence other than Stone and DJT.
    Stone, roughly, said earlier today that he had dirt on D.J. Trump.

    Just had a long talk with #RogerStone. He says he doesn’t want a pardon (which implies guilt) but a commutation, and says he thinks #Trump will give it to him. “He knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably. But I didn’t.”
    — howardfineman (@howardfineman) July 10, 2020

    I am fairly sure that some of such dirt involves the things that the Mueller team was investigating R. Stone for, related to the DNC/Podesta hacks and the timing of the wikileaks releases of them.

  172. 172.

    Chris Johnson

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:

    “He knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably. But I didn’t.”

    As soon as I saw that, I knew, and I can’t be at all surprised. Of course he did exactly what the Russia guy demanded he do: he is guilty, guilty as fuck, and everyone wants him to pretend otherwise, and he absolutely can’t.

    That was a threat. It was a direct threat, and it’s Stone going ‘no, I will not do time for you, I won’t do anything. Unless you give me everything I want, I will totally utterly screw you with no mercy’.

    That was a threat, Trump caving to the threat was inevitable, and in no way does this help any of those people. All he’s done is reveal the puppet strings. Stone clearly doesn’t give a fuck if Trump clings to any shred of effectiveness as a (traitor) President. He’s just like ‘I ain’t going to jail’.

    This is the beginning of a real blow-up. This is not a sign of strength, from anybody, even Russia.

    Russia would most likely rather have had Stone go chill in jail for a while to keep the operation going more smoothly. Stone, another arrogant fuck, apparently didn’t think so.

    Trump caved to an obvious threat and gave Stone anything he wanted. He crawled before Roger Stone. I think his error was thinking Stone spoke for his Russian masters, and I think Stone spoke from purely ego and selfishness. It’s possible he’ll meet a sticky end… unless the point is to blow up Trump.

  173. 173.

    Jay

    I don't know who needs to hear this, but fifteen states now spend $27,000 more per person in prison than they do per student.— Robert Reich (@RBReich) July 9, 2020

  174. 174.

    Kropacetic

    @Another Scott:Donnie is probably watching with admiration, trying to figure out if there’s a grand mosque somewhere in the US that he can take over…

    I’ll vote for Trump if he does an armed take-over of all the megachurches and forcibly converts their adherents to unitarian universalism.  I swear…

  176. 176.

    Nicole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Even if Trump doesn’t face legal consequences, he will be remembered as the worst President in US history. The vast majority of the country and the world hates his guts. He is a hated man and he will be remembered that way.

    Yeah, but who cares?  That’s what GWB understood- it doesn’t matter how history remembers you, because you won’t be around to see it anyway.  Once Trump’s dead, he’s dead, and all the pissing on his grave (some of which, I’m sure, will be literal) won’t mean anything to him, because he won’t be around to experience it.

    I’ve brought up Henry VIII more than once in reference to Trump because, they’re similar, and not just because they both kept trading in wives for newer models.  Henry VIII was a lot smarter than Trump, to be sure, but they both understood that the rule of law is easily ignored when you have money and power.  Everyone believed that breaking with the Catholic Church was a huge, huge deal, but Henry VIII realized that ultimately, who was going to stop him?  I mean, what would anyone actually DO?  And ultimately, nothing was done.  He got excommunicated, but what did that mean? Nothing.  Lots of people died, but they weren’t him or his kids.  The centuries of rules Europe had established between the nations and the Catholic Church ultimately didn’t mean a thing when he decided he wanted something.  And he had plenty of toadies to support him, and those that didn’t, well, there was the block.   Trump has done the same thing, though the political executions have at least been metaphorical.  He has completely shown up the fallacy of us believing that this institution we have built actually has any real authority.  All it takes is one guy in the top job saying, “Nah, bruh” and look where we end up.   Even Nixon couldn’t manage it, but boy, Trump has.

    (I agree with you about his kids being charisma-less, though, and yes, if they end up social pariahs, I will take some cold comfort in that.)

  177. 177.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    @Nicole: I’ll only say, this is why Biden *has* to clean house, and *must not* try a “we must look forward, not back.”

    They need to get every single criminal they can, so long as that criminal broke a clear law, *including duty to report*. As @Kay pointed out above, there should be dozens, possibly hundreds, or even thousands, of people who were not only morally, but also by law, bound to report malfeasance.

  178. 178.

    Danielx

    @Emma from FL:

    Hell, she’s right. I used to be accused of being a paranoid cynic, but never in my wildest nightmares did I think injustice and corruption would become so obvious.
    I can hear the Villager shrieks of “witch hunt!” already at the slightest effort to see that these swine get their well-deserved comeuppance.

  179. 179.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropacetic: Well, that is an easy promise to make.  You can’t forcibly convert people into being polite about the vegan sloppy joes that someone brought to the picnic.  That has to come from the heart.

  180. 180.

    DropKicker1

    Incredibly Venal White Men’s Lives Matter

    Painted on the roadway into Merry Lego

    Mike

  181. 181.

    Kropacetic

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ssssshhhhh. I’m just trying to convince him to make a dumb mistake that cuts specifically against his base.  I don’t intend to follow through.

    He reads Balloon Juice, right?

    ETA: Vegan Sloppy Joes sound like they could potentially be delicious.

  182. 182.

    Mary G

    This is a shiny object Twitler threw out to obscure the fact that more than 67,000 Americans were acknowledged to have been diagnosed with COVID19 today, a massive leap upward. I never thought Stone would go to jail. He’s been ratfucking on behalf of Republicans since the 1960s. Probably has dirt on every one of them and the donors too.

  184. 184.

    Jeffro

    @Nicole:Once Trump’s dead, he’s dead, and all the pissing on his grave (some of which, I’m sure, will be literal) won’t mean anything to him, because he won’t be around to experience it.

    Ok…but it will mean a lot to those of us who took the time to drive there, waited in line, drank all that cheap beer while IN line, etc etc. ;)

     

    Henry VIII was a lot smarter than Trump, to be sure, but they both understood that the rule of law is easily ignored when you have money and power.  Everyone believed that breaking with the Catholic Church was a huge, huge deal, but Henry VIII realized that ultimately, who was going to stop him?  I mean, what would anyone actually DO?  And ultimately, nothing was done.

    Not all autocrats die in their beds or otherwise escape justice.  There have been plenty of examples in the past 75 years of those who have been tried, convicted, summarily tried/convicted/shot, and so on.  I hear you but reaching all the way back to Henry VIII is a stretch.  That was then, this is now, and JAY-sus is trumpov ever a target for prosecution…which is in itself an amazing first for the U.S. and ideally will set an example for, oh, 15 or 20 minutes, our attention spans being what they are. ;)

  185. 185.

    Gravenstone

    @MisterForkbeard: 

    If I was them, I’d go into the office and copy all of my e-mails and incriminating data and THEN resign.

    This has been in the air long enough that any who had/has intent to resign has had plenty of time to do these sorts of things. No need to delay the symbolic resignations on that account.

  186. 186.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Nicole: Henry VIII had other problems; namely Catherine of Argon wasn’t able to have kids, Henry VIII had no male hair so it was War of the Roses Part II, party like it’s 1599 after Henry died, some legacy.  He should have been able to get a divorce by the Hasperburgs were blocking it.

    Trump meanwhile is an idiot.

  187. 187.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WaterGirl: Meh, this thread is nearly unusable now anyway.  People are talking about vegan sloppy joes.  It can only get worse.

  191. 191.

    WaterGirl

    @Nicole: I know that you are neither of those things.  Sometimes it feels hopeless and venting helps.  It’s really hard right now.  Hoping you come around to feeling more hopeful again.  Hoping all of us do.

  192. 192.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Nicole:

    I get what you mean. But it doesn’t ultimately matter whether Trump or GWB care how history will view them. They will be reviled. Henry isn’t respected today, is he? He’s not held up as some example to follow. Ultimately, his absolutist approach to government lost out.

    That doesn’t help us in the present, but it’s still up to us to ensure that in the future another Trump won’t be come to power again and that the rich and powerful will be held accountable. Trump and the GOP aren’t popular. At the moment, if we try, they will lose and the least we can do is make sure a Trump admin doesn’t happen again

  193. 193.

    Kropacetic

    @Omnes Omnibus:Meh, this thread is nearly unusable now anyway.  People are talking about vegan sloppy joes.  It can only get worse.

    Regular Sloppy Joes most typically use ground beef, the lamest meat.  I don’t see how subbing in for some form of vegetable could hurt it.  We’re here for the barbecue flavor anyway.  Or chipotle if you’re feeling spicy.

  195. 195.

    WaterGirl

    @Emma from FL: I hope you don’t still feel the way tomorrow.  We never know what someone else is going through that might leave them feeling less hopeful.  Some days are harder than others.

    You and Nicole are both good people so I hope things will look different in the morning.

  196. 196.

    Nicole

    @LongHairedWeirdo: I am not kidding when I say I really, really want to be wrong about what I think happens once Biden takes over, but I don’t think we’ll see anything happen.   I mean yeah, half of them seem to be guilty of voter fraud, at the very least (judging from them listing addresses where they aren’t living for their voting addresses), and that’s punishable by at least a few years in jail, and I’d be satisfied with that, putting it under the Al Capone theory of get them on what you can get them for, even if it’s not what they SHOULD be getting got for.

    But I don’t think it’ll happen.  Rich white folks getting away with stuff.  That’s the history of the USA.

    (Again, very much want to be wrong)

  198. 198.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Jeffro:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Exactly! Nothing is guaranteed, but the future isn’t written in stone either. Positive change is possible. I’m sure in the late 50s, it seemed like Jim Crow would last another 100 years, but the CRM was still founded and had major successes

  200. 200.

    Nicole

    @WaterGirl: I’m pissed as hell tonight, for sure, but I’m not angry at Emma from FL, or anyone else on the site (I think I’ve pied exactly one person in my time here AND I’M NOT SAYING WHO THEY ARE ALTHOUGH THEY ARE STILL PIED).   My rage is directed exclusively at the system.   Honest.

  207. 207.

    Nicole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): And I totally get what you’re saying, but in the end, I get no satisfaction from despots, contemporary or otherwise, getting their comeuppance only in the history books.  For all of his freakout over getting a male heir to continue the Tudor dynasty, Henry VIII pretty much put the end to it himself, what with his marital antics scaring the shit out of Elizabeth I so much that she said, “Nah bruh” to marriage, and the Tudors only lasted 3 generations.  Karma, some might say.  But at the time Henry VIII died, as far as he knew, his perfectly healthy (at the time) son was going to grow up to be king and beget kings after him.  He didn’t know Edward VI was going to die at 15.

    I don’t believe in an afterlife; I think this is what we get and I do feel we have an obligation to try to make it as decent for our fellow travelers in the brief time we get.  So yeah, it enrages the hell out of me to see terrible people who repeatedly break laws the rest of us would end up jailed for die contentedly in their beds, because they happened to have been born with money.

    And there’s no answer to it; I can’t wave a magic wand and truly make us all equal under the law, and sometimes I’m gonna get really, really mad about it.

    And yes, if laws are made to make things like this less likely to happen in the future, great, but it does seem like these “laws” only ever apply to Democrats, who often come from less powerful backgrounds than GOP.

  208. 208.

    Kay

    Daniel Goldman
    @danielsgoldman
    ·1h
    Hundreds of federal prosecutors will undoubtedly be thinking about resigning this weekend. Perhaps the fact that the election is only four months away keeps them in their jobs. But every one of them knows they are witnessing unprecedented corruption in the White House.

    Two of them stated it publicly:

    Zelinsky, who now works in the Maryland US Attorney’s Office, told the Judiciary Committee Wednesday that the Justice Department sentencing recommendation for Trump’s longtime friend and adviser Roger Stone was watered down due to political pressure from the “highest levels” of the Justice Department as a result of Stone’s “relationship with the President.” Zelinsky, who took Stone’s case to court, said in response to House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler’s questions that Barr’s decision in the Stone case was wrong, unethical and against department policy.

  209. 209.

    James E Powell

    @Kay:

    They wholly succeeded in both the crime and then the cover-up. They beat the entire federal prosecution apparatus. Got away with it.

    They could not have done it without the energetic cooperation of the right-wingers they put on the court during Bush/Cheney and more recently. The courts have been Trump’s backstop the whole time.

    And the press/media, for the most part, treated it all as more of Trump’s incomparable political awesomeness. The Trump Rules are like the exact opposite of the Clinton Rules.

  210. 210.

    Bill Arnold

    @Chris Johnson:
    Thanks. This was a desperation move by DJT, who was and is afraid of what Roger Stone knows.
    [Stone] “He knows I was under enormous pressure to turn on him. It would have eased my situation considerably. But I didn’t.”
    just prior to a grant of clemency is not a good look. Stone is not interested in talking (’cause he becomes dead before he actually talks. IMO. In the contract.) but he’s willing to make the threat to stay out of jail; RS doesn’t want to be Epsteined.

  211. 211.

    Kropacetic

    @Jay:Montreal Steak Spice.

    Superb stuff.

    Mayo’s for tuna fish sandwiches

    Mayo and cholula

    fries

    Chocolate milkshake

    and BLT’s

    Pick a good lettuce or else just stick to the bacon and tomato and, yes, mayo

  212. 212.

    Nicole

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:  He shouldn’t have been able to get a divorce; that was the thing.  Catherine had had several children, one of whom survived (the future Mary I, as Dahlia said).  On top of that, they’d gotten all the proper dispensations before they got married (since she’d been married to his brother).

    And I guess to pick nits with my own example, technically he didn’t want a divorce; he wanted an annulment, which would have made Mary illegitimate and yeah, Catherine was not cool with that and yeah, there was a lot of political machinery involved in him not getting it (example of a rich and powerful guy in the top job going up against another rich and powerful guy in the top job, what with Catherine’s nephew holding the Pope hostage).  But he reached a point where he looked at the rule of law and said, “Fuck it” and essentially awarded himself an annulment.

    It’s a fragile thing, these rules we establish, is what I’m saying.  Just takes one asshole to show just how fragile.

  215. 215.

    laura

    Man, this night after this week! It’s been a tough one and I don’t think I’m the only one feeling raw like a frayed wire. If I could, I’d ask that we push the furniture back, crank up the music and dance party this week on out. The need to physically wring this moral injury out is overwhelming and a hot summer night dancing in a crowded house is what I crave.

  217. 217.

    Carlo

    Just be patient. Six months until January, then Trump can start to be measured for an orange jumpsuit of his own. No pardons, his only other options will be exile in Russia or Brasil. As a proud resident of Illinois, I can say that we have a Federal Pen in Marion that already has a Governor’s Row, and is ready for an upgrade to a Presidential Wing.

  218. 218.

    Jinchi

    Does anyone know the percentage of Trump pardons/commutations that have gone to men whose crimes were done in service to Trump himself?

  220. 220.

    Kay

    @Jay:

    They’re thinking about resigning though. Giving that some serious thought.

    I mean, once one of them comes and tells Congress “the attorney general is corrupt and ‘watered down’ sentencing” the rest can hardly claim they weren’t aware. He told us all!

    Zelinsky took Stone’s case to court. They’re witnessing this stuff happening.

  221. 221.

    Kropacetic

    @Jay: Ooh, I like the way you think.  My Google results about Krims left me a little confused though.  Does that refer to the tomato?

  224. 224.

    Nicole

    @laura: And, in all fairness, things could be worse.  I could be reading about Stone’s commutation while staying in the motel the Hoarse Whisperer chose for his hinterland getaway (which I just saw on Twitter, and which made me laugh).  He has to sleep with an ice bucket on the bed in order to catch the rain dripping in from the ceiling.  Photo of the exterior:

    https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1281704984367763457

    I have stayed in many a motel of comparable quality in my life, but not recently.

  225. 225.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Aleta: Probably not, though IANAL. though that’s clever – if it’s conspiracy to commit obstruction of justice by exercising his lawful authority for corrupt ends, maybe that’s prosecutable.

    Probably not, though.

  226. 226.

    Jinchi

    @Nicole: My rage is directed exclusively at the system. Honest.

    This is one of the many failure points in our system that Trump has exposed. Hopefully, we’ll have people in power 6 months from know who will know how to reform the system so a crook like Trump can’t come to power here for another thousand years.

  227. 227.

    WaterGirl

    @Nicole: Having a president who has only three modes – King, criminal, and white hood – and pretty much gets away with all of it…  Let’s just say it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

  228. 228.

    Jay

    @Kropacetic:

    yup, the tomato. Like a beefsteak but with 100 times the flavour.  There are a 100 variations, heritage breeds, all smuggled out of Siberia in the 1930’s, hidden behind a postage stamp on a letter.

  230. 230.

    Kay

    Oh, look. More corruption at the Department of Justice. Someone should call a prosecutor. See if anything can be done about this.

    Don’t miss: Barr has pulled the U.S. Attorney for EDNY to take a role at Main Justice.
    Richard Donoghue was tasked with supervising DOJ investigations involving Ukraine. His office played a major role in the investigation into Trump’s inaugural committee.

  231. 231.

    Aleta

    @Jinchi:

    Jack Goldsmith  @jacklgoldsmith

    Stone is Trump’s 36th pardon/commutation, a record low number, by far, for the modern presidency. An unusually high number of these (31/36 by my count), like Stone’s, were based on a personal or political connection. Both are forms of abuse of an undoubted presidential power.

  232. 232.

    James E Powell

    @Jinchi:

    Does anyone know the percentage of Trump pardons/commutations that have gone to men whose crimes were done in service to Trump himself?

    I think all of them except the Navy Seal war crimes guy.

    ETA – Oh, and the a hole sheriff from Arizona.

  233. 233.

    Kropacetic

    @James E Powell: I think my sister gets hers at CostCo.

    I have been given so many reasons to go to Costco in the last few months and haven’t made the leap yet.
    This next paycheck, it’s time.
    While I’m there, I know they carry the only instant phô worth a damn. My friend, who is very particular about it, has tried many and assured me this is so.

    @Jay: yup, the tomato. Like a beefsteak but with 100 times the flavour.

    Ooh, gotta try this too.  My grocery bill is gonna be hell this week.  Tragedy I don’t have anyone to cook for right now.

  234. 234.

    Kropacetic

    @James E Powell:

    @Jinchi: Does anyone know the percentage of Trump pardons/commutations that have gone to men whose crimes were done in service to Trump himself?

    I think all of them except the Navy Seal war crimes guy.

    ETA – Oh, and the a hole sheriff from Arizona.

    So, once you combine the crime cover-up pardons with the ideological ones, that’s ::does some quick math:: damn near all of them.

  235. 235.

    ballerat

    @Gin & Tonic: I for one know you are right..

    They’ve had 3 1/2 years to do the right thing. As Kay noted, like 3 out of how many thousands of employees? This won’t be the last straw for the rest of them. There is no last straw. It’s obvious now, we’re just waiting for people to accept that.

    It’s going to take some people a while longer to accept it. Because there is no rule of law, not for the rich and powerful.

    Work hard to get ahead. A lie. Study hard to get into a good college. A lie. Pay your taxes. A lie. Be honest. A lie. No means no. A lie. All lies if you got connections and money.

    Just like Trump’s racism where he says the quiet Republican parts out loud, so with his lawlessness: The law protects the rich and powerful but does not bind them. And it binds the rest of us but does not protect. It’s loud and clear.

    With all of our institutions collapsing seemingly one after the other in the last 3 1/2 years, it looks like rot within. But I don’t think so. I think they collapsed so fast because they were a sham. Not rot, just fake. We just never had a perfect storm of covid, corruption and confederacy to blow the thin facades off the entire potemkin village all at once.

    Kay says we need to see which institutions survive the Trump storm and which fail. But it’s not a stress test. It’s a truth test. A reality test. Which were lies? If they fail it’s because there never was any there there.

    The failing institutions were in fact not at all intended to do what we thought they were supposed to do.

    They were simulacra, not for the POC because they knew from birth. Not for the poor because they knew the hard way. The rich and powerful of course knew, they made damn sure they were that way. They were fakes intended for the rest of us.

  236. 236.

    randy khan

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    im Miller @Timodc48m

    So I guess the biggest outstanding question about tonight’s news is, what does Roger Stone have on Donald Trump that Paul Manafort doesn’t?

    you know who must really be wondering about that? Manafort

    It’s easy – Trump admires Stone; he thinks of Manafort as a hireling.

  238. 238.

    Morzer

    @Nicole:  Henry VIII died grossly obese, diseased, ranting and hated by much of the country he ruled. Now why would anyone see a parallel to Trump in any of that?

  240. 240.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    @Nicole: I believe you, and I feel much like you, up to and including feeling I should apologize to others, saying I hoped I was wrong :-).

    That’s why I said “Biden has to clean house” rather than “Biden *should*…” or something weaker.

    Having referenced the Simpsons… there was an episode, where Lisa goes to DC for an essay contest she won, and found a congresscritter taking a bribe. And… damn it. There was a lovely little “emergency! Citizen losing faith in the system” or some other such happy horsecrap. (It’s horsecrap during this administration, at least.) Investigation, and so forth, and he was removed.

    That sense of “EMERGENCY! PEOPLE ARE LOSING FAITH!” is how I feel. If Trump skates, if Barr isn’t even investigated, if the entire GOP can blow smoke up our asses, like “Oh, hell, can’t blame *Trump* for over a hundred thousand dead, just because he’s a venal, idiotic, incompetent who we’ve been pretending is adequate for 3.5 years now” then people *will* lose faith.

    More importantly… one reason I heard that Obama didn’t go after the people who perpetrated torture was that the OLC had issued a memo saying it was okay. Now, here’s what I heard about the OLC (love to see a reference saying I’m wrong): the OLC issues opinions on the law that are legally binding, unless/until a court finds differently.

    So: a soldier or agent tortures someone, they should be charged with a crime.

    If they’re told they were following orders, the order giver *also* gets charged with a crime. (And so on up the line.)

    But if they say “the OLC said this was okay,” that’s different.

    Similarly, when the Treasury Department didn’t hand over Trump’s taxes, they didn’t because the OLC issued an opinion saying they didn’t have to, and a subsequent IG report said they acted lawfully. (Note: no one followed up on “what if that OLC opinion hadn’t been issued?” and they should be used to *how* Republicans lie by now!)

    Okay, but we *KNOW* that while someone *might* have been able to justify torture, without being a lickspittle lackey (just drunk on bloodlust); no such possibility exists on an opinion that invents a “unless the Democrats have control of one or more houses of Congress” exception.

    I’m serious when I say he really needs to clean house. Whoever authored that opinion should have to explain it to the Bar, and the Bar should be *extremely* skeptical, and ready to remind the lawyer “YOUR CLIENT was the American people, *NOT* Donald Trump! A first year law student can see how you acted in the service of Trump first, and the American people only if it didn’t bother Trump!”

    Since the 80s, the Republicans realized they can have their lackeys create findings for regulatory agencies out of whole cloth, if they’re running the executive branch, and no one is allowed to question them, or point out how obviously biased they are. And that’s horrible, make no mistake. But if the OLC is as sacred as I’ve heard it is, it’s a downright betrayal of the rule of law to invent an opinion there. And we know they’re loading the same lackeys in the federal court system, where they don’t even *have* to explain their rulings.

    I don’t blame you for feeling hopeless, helpless, despairing, or any other  bad feeling you might be having. I agree – there’s reason to be afraid. In point of fact, I’ll grant that I would be scared out of my gourd, except, well… they politicized Covid-19, and they have been wrong.

    In every way. At every moment. With every decision.

    It’s pretty horrifying, but without that clear evidence of their evil incompetence, I’d be a lot more scared. And even now, I know full well they’ll try to weasel their way out of it, “Oh, I NEVER trusted Trump; we ALWAYS took it seriously; didn’t Moscow Mitch er, the honorable court-thief, er, the Senate majority leader recommend masks?”

    Some people will have the spell broken. I hope it’s enough. And I hope Biden looks Trump in the eyes, and says “Mr. (now “former”) President, there’s something I want to say to you. It’s not what *I* should be saying, but I’m demanding the right to say it, and since I’m the President now, I’m allowed. You’re under arrest. Officers?”

  241. 241.

    Ruckus

    @janesays:

    It’s cliché but THIS.

    The reality is exactly as you lay it out. It’s shit that this the way it is, the concept was there to prevent too much bullshit from the president/cabinet, but it doesn’t work at all with a totally partisan senate. It’s one reason that a number of presidents have gotten away with a lot more than they should have.

  242. 242.

    brantl

    I have to think that someone who really knows their shit is accumulating the evidence and stacking it away for the day after Stump leaves office, to provide to the proper prosecutorial authority. It may be a stupid thought, but I think that there must have been the thought there, where the accumulator gamed all this out, in their head, before gathering the evidence.

  244. 244.

    SteverinoCT

    @Another Scott:

    Donnie is probably watching with admiration, trying to figure out if there’s a grand mosque somewhere in the US that he can take over…

    “Hmm… Norte Dame… isn’t that in Indiana?”

  245. 245.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    There was a lovely little “emergency! Citizen losing faith in the system” or some other such happy horsecrap. (It’s horsecrap during this administration, at least.)

    I think that was intended as cynical satire when it was made in 1990, although they did play it pretty straight.

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