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You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / Floriduh, continued

Floriduh, continued

by John Cole|  July 12, 20203:41 pm| 212 Comments

This post is in: COVID-19

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There was also this, yesterday:

Floriduh, continued

St. Johns County Commissioner Paul Waldron caught the coronavirus and went into septic shock after voting against a motion to mandate masks for county employees last week.

His daughter posted on Facebook on July 9 that Waldron “went into septic shock and has many organs struggling.”

When you are a walking multiple morbidity, you would think it would be in the best interest of you and everyone around you to wear masks during a pandemic.

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Reader Interactions

212Comments

  1. 1.

    Eric U.

    July 12, 2020 at 3:44 pm

    I didn’t realize it was only for county employees.  How ridiculous.  Otherwise, I’m trying not to be a bad person.

  2. 2.

    piratedan

    July 12, 2020 at 3:47 pm

    I’m sure his family will find comfort in the knowledge that if this brave warrior for the freedom of the marketplace falls, that his brave sacrifice will be acknowledged in the naming of food courts in his honor, maybe perhaps, unless there’s a better deal to be bartered.

  3. 3.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 12, 2020 at 3:47 pm

    Dude looks like the picture of health.

  4. 4.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 3:47 pm

    you would think it would be in the best interest of you and everyone around you to wear masks during a pandemic.

    But the mask would make him unattractive.

    BTW, Biden +5 in the latest Texas poll. Not a top tier pollster, though.

  5. 5.

    WereBear

    July 12, 2020 at 3:48 pm

    I just don’t understand it. But then again, I never have.

  6. 6.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 3:48 pm

    God, is there any good news anywhere? This blog is making me sick. I know it’s reality, but can’t we find anything anywhere that’s good?

  7. 7.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 3:49 pm

    WH accidentally sent an oppo file on Fauci to a reporter. Guess he’s about to be fired.

  8. 8.

    trollhattan

    July 12, 2020 at 3:50 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Puppies. Puppies are good.

  9. 9.

    debbie

    July 12, 2020 at 3:50 pm

    @Martin:

    They better not

    ETA: Fuck the WH concern trolls:

    A White House official told NBC News that “several White House officials are concerned about the number of times Dr. Fauci has been wrong on things.” The official provided NBC News with a lengthy list of past comments by Fauci earlier in the pandemic, including Fauci saying in January that coronavirus was “not a major threat” and “not driven by asymptomatic carriers” and Fauci’s comment in March that “people should not be walking around with masks.”

    Like the WH wasn’t saying the very same things!

  10. 10.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 3:51 pm

    I’m considering putting together a list of responsible people to be beaten to death with a baseball bat in the event that someone super close to me gets claimed by this pandemic. I feel a good chance of success on several of them prior to apprehension….

  11. 11.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 12, 2020 at 3:51 pm

    @zhena gogolia: It’s a beautiful day out and I’m going to sit on the deck and enjoy a cold beer. You’re welcome to join me.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 3:51 pm

    @Martin:

    Guess he’s about to be fired hired by Biden.

  13. 13.

    JMG

    July 12, 2020 at 3:51 pm

    St. John’s county, which is where my late parents retired, is very red. De Santis was its congressperson before he became governor. Most of its pols are guys (very occasional gal) who aren’t quite bright enough to hack it as lawyers or real estate hustlers.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 3:51 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    You can pretend I’m good.

  15. 15.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 3:53 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I would, but I have an early morning taking my husband to the orthopedist.

    I come here on Sunday afternoon to be distracted from the horror. I guess that’s a mistake.

  16. 16.

    hotshoe

    July 12, 2020 at 3:54 pm

    I hope he dies in agony. Yes, I admit those hopes show I’m a bad person. BUT men like that, in power, who willingly inflict disease and possible death on innocent people (people who certainly had no choice, having to work to keep food on the table, and no choice to refuse anti-masker’s policy at work) deserve whatever misery Covid inflicts upon their evil selves.

  17. 17.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 3:54 pm

    @zhena gogolia:  Although my older son has shopped for me, he leaves whatever wiped and clean lined up on the driveway.  Today I finally convinced him that he could pick up takeout and he could sit at one end of the patio table and I at the other.  My outdoor table seats eight, so plenty big enough.   We used disposable plates and didn’t venture near the other person.   Before he left, he realized that he might be able to do again.

    It was a good day.

  18. 18.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 3:54 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Well, Trump is almost certain to lose and take a LOT of the GOP with him. So, think of this like surgery – it’s going to be bad for a little while and then it will get much better. So, hunker down, deal with the current garbage best as you can and stay focused on the future.

  19. 19.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 3:54 pm

    @Baud:

    You actually are very good, and one of the people who always makes me smile.

  20. 20.

    donnah

    July 12, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    There have been some traditional dropped hints from the Trump administration recently, accusing Fauci of making a lot of mistakes. He’s a goner.

  21. 21.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    I’m at the point where I just shrug and mumble “fuck you, I only hope your sorry ass didn’t infect someone else you selfish prick.”

    These assholes react to something easy and simple like wearing a mask like cats react to smelling a durian.

  22. 22.

    James E Powell

    July 12, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    @Martin:

    These polls showing Biden ahead are going to come back to haunt us. The race will tighten, because it always does, and the press/media will start calling Trump the comeback kid. Remember, all he has to do is not be a total a hole for 48 hours and they all start declaring him to be forever changed into a great leader.

  23. 23.

    dmsilev

    July 12, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    @Martin: Accidentally? I assume you’re referring to this story. Sounds pretty damn deliberate and considered:

    A White House official released a statement saying that “several White House officials are concerned about the number of times Dr. Fauci has been wrong on things” and included a lengthy list of the scientist’s comments from early in the outbreak. Those included his early doubt that people with no symptoms could play a significant role in spreading the virus — a notion based on earlier outbreaks that the novel coronavirus would turn on its head. They also point to public reassurances Fauci made in late February, around the time of the first U.S. case of community transmission, that “at this moment, there is no need to change anything that you’re doing on a day-by-day basis.”

    Of course, in late February, Trump was still in his “If I close my eyes and wish really hard, the virus will magically go away” phase. Hell, it’s July and he’s arguably still in that phase.

  24. 24.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    @Martin:

    That’s super on-brand. Of course, isn’t that the equivalent of killing Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  25. 25.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: What brand?

  26. 26.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 12, 2020 at 3:55 pm

    @Martin: somebody needs to make some kind of audio filter of Fauci saying in his NY accent: “You can’t win, Don, if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”

    Not sure I believe that, but it would be fun to imagine The Beast hate watching it over and over again

  27. 27.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 3:56 pm

    @JPL:

    I was about to organize something like that with our friends in our backyard on June 7, when an accident intervened that is taking up much of the summer. We haven’t seen any humans except doctors and faces on Zoom since about March 13.

  28. 28.

    debbie

    July 12, 2020 at 3:56 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    The gardening photos from this morning are very beautiful.

  29. 29.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 3:57 pm

    @debbie: But Baud is right. If he’s fired by Trump, expect him to be instantly hired by Biden to lead that part of the transition.

    Honestly, that might be better for all of us than having him neutered in the current administration. At least he could assemble a team and get plans together to implement on day 1. I doubt he’s allowed to do that now.

  30. 30.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 3:57 pm

    @Martin:

    I try. My husband keeps saying, “We won’t have to deal with Trump much longer.”

    It’s a new mantra — the old one was, “We’re going to pay for this.” Having been proved right on that one, he’s trying to assure me he’s right about the new one too.

  31. 31.

    Nora

    July 12, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    @James E Powell: You ARE an optimist, aren’t you?  Do you really think Trump can avoid being an asshole for 48 hours?  At this point?

  32. 32.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    @dmsilev:

    God, disgusting! It’s A NOVEL VIRUS, that’s why people have been wrong about things as it develops! I hate them with the fire of a thousand suns!

  33. 33.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 3:59 pm

    @dmsilev:

    As I remember, wingnut world was unhappy with Fauci in March and April over the effects of the closures, claiming that Fauci was overstating the threat.

  34. 34.

    debbie

    July 12, 2020 at 3:59 pm

    @Martin:

    Yeah, but then he disappears until after November. Some sort of large advocacy group in D.C. needs to make him their spokesperson stat.

  35. 35.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 3:59 pm

    @Martin:

    Wow, good spinning there.

  36. 36.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 4:00 pm

    @dmsilev: I mean accidental in the sense that you release oppo to those you know will build the narrative you want, and not those who will say ‘the WH is trying to demonize this individual’. They sent it to reporters that are calling it what it is.

  37. 37.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 12, 2020 at 4:00 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I’m at the point where I just shrug and mumble “fuck you, I only hope your sorry ass didn’t infect someone else you selfish prick.”

    if only these assholes were only a danger to themselves. It might be the first RNC convention I’d watch.

  38. 38.

    Kelly

    July 12, 2020 at 4:00 pm

    @JPL: Friday we finally went on a whitewater kayak trip with our buddies. First trip out since March. We drafted my Mom to shuttle our truck to the bottom of the run, she’s always been in our bubble. Easy to maintain our distance in the summer breeze and waves often washed us clean.

  39. 39.

    Narya

    July 12, 2020 at 4:01 pm

    Getting my first takeout of the pandemic—pizza!—to have w beer while we watch racing

  40. 40.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 4:02 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    You are really good at pretending.

  41. 41.

    joel hanes

    July 12, 2020 at 4:02 pm

    @Baud:

    Biden should absolutely be talking with Ron Klain, Dr. Messonier, Dr. Fauci, and Admiral Timothy Ziemer

  42. 42.

    Barbara

    July 12, 2020 at 4:03 pm

    @Martin: They should watch the “opposite” episode of Seinfeld and take notes. Whatever Trump is inclined to do, they should encourage him to do the opposite. They won’t and he wouldn’t listen anyway but it should be obvious by now he has no clue what he’s doing. Maybe they can dumb it down. Firing Fauci: not good for polling numbers! Means we can’t keep him off tv! He already knows too much!

  43. 43.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:03 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    The only mammal I have touched since March 13th is my cat.

    I could really use a hug and a kiss.

    Not from you, I mean, from this lady I know.

  44. 44.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 12, 2020 at 4:04 pm

    @Martin:

    WH accidentally sent an oppo file on Fauci to a reporter. Guess he’s about to be fired.

    “Accidentally”?

  45. 45.

    dmsilev

    July 12, 2020 at 4:04 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yes, but wingnut world takes Orwell’s 1984 to be an instruction manual. Fauci has always been wrong about the pandemic. Shortly, we will learn that Trump has always been in favor of wearing masks and indeed has always worn one. And the chocolate ration has just been increased.

  46. 46.

    Shalimar

    July 12, 2020 at 4:06 pm

    The thing is, DeSantis intentionally deflated numbers leading up to July 4th so we could have as close to normal a holiday as possible.   Which means this coming week is when it starts getting really bad.

  47. 47.

    Barbara

    July 12, 2020 at 4:06 pm

    @dmsilev: Nope. He wore a mask because Walter Reed is caring for any number of military personnel with active virus. Someone told him he might get sick. So saith me.

  48. 48.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:07 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It might be the first RNC convention I’d watch.

    Indeed.

    I’d also like to thank the folks yesterday who turned me on to Jeremy Brett and David Burke in the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, it’s wonderfully done.

  49. 49.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 4:08 pm

    @zhena gogolia: This is why people often resign. You get frozen out of the work you want to do.  So yeah, you have a job, but you can’t do it, and you want to do the job more than you want to collect the paycheck. So you leave and find someplace that will let  you do the job.

    Fauci is in that space. He has no ability to change how the government deals with this. He’s simply a credible voice that can gently counter Trump and gets at least some of the benefit of the platform a federal employee benefits from. But if he wants to get back to planning a response to this, Biden can offer him that. And Biden can give him a platform – give him the chance to do daily updates without being neutered by the WH.

    There’s some benefit of having someone in the agency, sure, but it may be the point that there is more benefit freeing him from the WH shackles.

    Put another way, there’s 0% chance that Biden and Fauci haven’t talked about moving him to the campaign. It’s entirely possible that they decided to let him speak more loudly from the administration, do what he can within his agency, but push the bounds. If Trump fires him, that’s a political win for Biden and further discredits Trump, which at this point does have a public health benefit (very tangentially). No matter what, Fauci has a job the next day.

  50. 50.

    Nicole

    July 12, 2020 at 4:09 pm

    I just keep reading these articles about mask deniers getting sick and thinking, “But what did they think would happen?”

    But then, reality has a well known liberal bias.

    I wish I had sympathy, but I do not.  Trump has effectively reduced my ability to care for right-wingers.

  51. 51.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 4:09 pm

    @Kelly:  That sound like fun.   GA is becoming a hot spot, but there are still safe things to do.

  52. 52.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:10 pm

    @Martin:

    If Trump fires him, that’s a political win for Biden

    I agree, first thought I had when I got wind Fauci may be fired was “Biden will pick him up immediately and have him do public appearances every day.”

  53. 53.

    Just One More Canuck

    July 12, 2020 at 4:13 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It would be like a re-enactment of the ‘bring-out-your dead’ scene from Holy Grail

  54. 54.

    Just One More Canuck

    July 12, 2020 at 4:13 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It would be like a re-enactment of the ‘bring-out-your dead’ scene from Holy Grail

  55. 55.

    Barbara

    July 12, 2020 at 4:13 pm

    @Shalimar: Florida is gaining on the states with most infections per 100,000. It passed Maryland, and is now in 10th position. Arizona is in 3rd place, but it might be hard to overtake NY and NJ.   Except that NY had a month to figure it out, and they have had five. I never wish for anyone’s death, but I am certainly beyond feeling bad for those who have been cut down when they used their power to hurt others.

  56. 56.

    trollhattan

    July 12, 2020 at 4:14 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It is hot as fvck here–too hot to be outside even in shade–but beer is still good, weather concerns aside.

  57. 57.

    Barbara

    July 12, 2020 at 4:15 pm

    @Martin: I would take bets they try to make him sign an NDA. I really doubt they will fire him. Hold your friends close and your enemies closer and all that.

  58. 58.

    H.E.Wolf

    July 12, 2020 at 4:15 pm

    @zhena gogolia: God, is there any good news anywhere? This blog is making me sick. I know it’s reality, but can’t we find anything anywhere that’s good?

    https://twitter.com/emilyslist/status/1281202441233596417

  59. 59.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 12, 2020 at 4:18 pm

    I thought Trump couldn’t just fire Fauci. That there was some complication because of where and how Fauci is employed.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 12, 2020 at 4:20 pm

    @Barbara:

    I would take bets they try to make him sign an NDA. I really doubt they will fire him.

    I imagine a competition between trump’s lizard-brain survival instinct on one shoulder, and his rage-fueled impulsiveness on the other. If he talks to the right person on his unsecured cell phone after his shows are over, I can easily imagine him firing Fauci by tweet while Tucker’s scraping off his makeup

  61. 61.

    Barbara

    July 12, 2020 at 4:21 pm

    He can’t fire him from his position at NIH but he can take him off whatever response team they have convened on an ad hoc basis – the one Pence supposedly directs.

  62. 62.

    JMG

    July 12, 2020 at 4:22 pm

    It is my understanding Fauci is a career civil servant, a senior one to be sure, but still protected by the Civil Service Act. The man’s 79, he could retire at any time, so he must have a very strong sense of duty. I don’t think he’d align with the Biden campaign in any event. Most government lifers have a strong taboo against something like that.

  63. 63.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 12, 2020 at 4:22 pm

    @JPL: Long Trail.

  64. 64.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 4:23 pm

    Oh, what the fuck could go wrong?

    Noting that the program is “the first of its kind,” Guadian states that the program will “serve as a pilot for nationwide implementation.”

    During the training, stakeholders would receive training on a number of “facets and responsibilities of ICE/ERO operations,” he says.

    Included in the course would be training in “defensive tactics, firearms familiarization and targeted arrests.”

    The training would be “scenario-based,” he states, adding that exercises would be “conducted in a safe and positive environment.”

    Deputizing the Proud Boys doesn’t sound like a great idea. I have to assume that conservatives read dystopic literature very differently from the rest of us.

  65. 65.

    different-church-lady

    July 12, 2020 at 4:23 pm

    It actually is a death cult at this point.

  66. 66.

    senyordave

    July 12, 2020 at 4:23 pm

    @James E Powell: I think the polls might tighten a bit based on negative ads, but when you are actively disliked by 50% of the public as Trump is you are in deep shit trouble.  I’m as contrarian as you can be but I think Trump is going to lose by more than a little.

    Wearing a mask at this point won’t help him a bit.  All but his base know that he fucked up badly on Covid-19, and that wearing a mask won’t change anyone’s mind.

  67. 67.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 4:24 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: 
    I’ll give you one too!

  68. 68.

    different-church-lady

    July 12, 2020 at 4:25 pm

    @James E Powell: But one does wonder if the dead need to come back to life in order for Trump to close the gap.

  69. 69.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 4:26 pm

    NYPost has a Biden hit piece on how his relatives tend to get off with slaps on the wrist.   Rather than link to it, I will let you know that Ashley, his daughter was caught with pot 21 years ago.   I’m shocked.

  70. 70.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:26 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’d gladly accept!

    Not to be the bearer of more bad news, but the Bonhomme Richard is on fire in San Diego and it doesn’t look good.

    Getting word that SDFD has puled all personnel from the ship and firefighters are now in complete defensive mode, meaning the ship will burn until it has nothing left to burn.

    That ship just came out of an 8-month refit. I suspect Mr. Silverman will have more later today. But this is not good news.

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 12, 2020 at 4:27 pm

    @senyordave: negative ads and Republicans “coming home”, as the phrase went in ’16

    ETA, along those lines, what do you call this from the Biden team? a humble-flex?

  72. 72.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 4:29 pm

    @JPL:

    Wait, Biden’s family is white?

  73. 73.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 4:29 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Interesting.   We have several micro brewers and local brewers in the area.   I doubt that the micro brewers make it unless the virus disappears overnight.

  74. 74.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 4:31 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: CNN said eleven sailors were transported to local hospitals and I hope they are okay.

  75. 75.

    Another Scott

    July 12, 2020 at 4:34 pm

    @hotshoe: He didn’t come up with the idea not to wear masks on his own.

    I have much more blame to give Donnie and his enablers, and Fox News and OANN, and all the rest of the RWNJ echo chamber.  They’ve pushed this idea that tribalism is more important than anything for so long, without consequence, that they have no actual policy when disaster strikes – nothing but doing the opposite of what actual experts recommend.

    And it’s killing their own people, and they don’t care.  As was easily predictable.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  76. 76.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 4:34 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    A tactful way of saying, “Remember how all you mutherfuckers thought Hillary was going to win so you thought you could stay home? Let’s not do that again.”

  77. 77.

    Brachiator

    July 12, 2020 at 4:36 pm

    @senyordave:

    I think the polls might tighten a bit based on negative ads, but when you are actively disliked by 50% of the public as Trump is you are in deep shit trouble.  I’m as contrarian as you can be but I think Trump is going to lose by more than a little.

    Totally agree. We can’t predict what October might look like, but right now Trump is in deep shit. And sinking further into it.

  78. 78.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 4:37 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Have we lost a ship since WWII?

  79. 79.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:40 pm

    @JPL:

    Accurate info is spotty right now, I heard four injured one critically. This is not good, not good at all.

  80. 80.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 4:42 pm

    This is a place I’ve always wanted to go.  Not sure I’ll be able to now.

    Turkey’s Erdogan orders the conversion of Hagia Sophia back into a mosque

  81. 81.

    Another Scott

    July 12, 2020 at 4:43 pm

    @joel hanes: A while ago Biden said Fauci was going to get whatever he needed and recommended on the first day.

    Fauci will be fine, and will continue to be an important part of the solution no matter what Donnie does (or doesn’t) do to him.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  82. 82.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:44 pm

    @Baud:

    Quick search tells me USN has lost just under 30 ships since the end of the war. My first thought was yes because submarines and of course, the Liberty.

    Here’s the deets

  83. 83.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 12, 2020 at 4:45 pm

    @Baud: You’ll just have to take your shoes off.  Is the problem that you don’t always travel with your personal farrier?

  84. 84.

    patrick II

    July 12, 2020 at 4:45 pm

    @debbie:

    I am not too fond of some of these Fauci statements — particularly people should not be walking around with masks. He admitted during congressional testimony he said that because there was a shortage of masks and he didn’t want people buying them in stead of care workers.  That is just a mistake.  We are supposed to trust scientists, and that lie for what he thought was a good cause has caused much harm. And he was testy even being asked about it.  Some doctors, even those as good as Fauci, could stand a little more humility.

    As far ask the masks, have the feds use the president’s emergency powers to scoop up the unsold ones, distribute them according to need (instead of Jared’s cash needy friends), put out public service announcements about how to make them at home, ramp up production, etc.  But don’t lie about it.  We need to trust scientists and doctors.

  85. 85.

    Miss Bianca

    July 12, 2020 at 4:46 pm

    I presume Mr Waldron has someone who cares whether he lives or dies. But it ain’t me, babe.

    At this point, I’m practically rooting for one of our county commissioners to get it. Preferably the one who appointed himself chairman of the Board of Health, only to run off our Public Health Director, fail to uphold public health orders, and show up with his multiple-health-issued wife to the July 4th “protest” and lead the goddamn parade. better yet, let his wife get it – she who has been stirring up the county rednecks with her whining of “these people who expect my husband to know his ass from his useful bits are being so MEEEEAAAAN and UNFAAAAIIIRR!”

    Yep. Rooting not only for injuries, but mortal illness. That’s how far I’ve fallen from “when they go low, we go high.”

  86. 86.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:46 pm

    @JPL:

    Man, considering the fire was located well below the water line in very confined spaces 11 seems like it’s not too bad, unless you’re one of the 11.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 4:46 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    That’s a remarkably specific website. Thanks.

     

    @Omnes Omnibus: I hope that’s the only restriction.

  88. 88.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 4:47 pm

    @JMG: So, as someone in a similar type of role – career professional in the public sector. Inasmuch as you look at politics as differing views of solving a given set of problems, you can step  back and say ‘it’s not my job to grade that viewpoint, it’s my job to inform that viewpoint and implement it best as I can.’ Some of what I consider my best work has been taking what I view as totally misguided views of how to do thing and through the application of enough effort turn them into somewhat successes, even though it’s clear there are better ways of doing that, and I would tear down my work in a second to have the chance to implement it in the better way.

    But at some point that view can’t be held. It requires assuming politicians are not bad actors. And sometimes you reach a point where you can no longer deny that you have a bad actor, at which  point you really have no choice but to temporarily align with a political view. I would argue Muellers op-ed this weekend falls in that category. He could not hold the view that Stone’s clemency  was the result of an alternate view of governance. It was straight corruption and he knew it and correcting it requires aligning with Biden because all other options are exhausted, then that’s what you do.

    Career professionals want to solve the problem. Politicians normally give two different paths to doing that – a Dem path and a GOP path. There is no GOP path to addressing this pandemic. There is only a Dem path. If Fauci wants to solve this problem that he has spent his entire career preparing for, he has no choice but to join the Biden team. Yes, he’d prefer not to, but this is not a problem that can wait either.

  89. 89.

    oldster

    July 12, 2020 at 4:51 pm

    Cole, I’m disappointed in you for attacking this guy’s physique.

    I didn’t think you would stoop to wattle-shaming this way.

    As a fellow walrus-American, I take offense.

  90. 90.

    Chetan Murthy

    July 12, 2020 at 4:51 pm

    @hotshoe:

    I hope he dies in agony. Yes, I admit those hopes show I’m a bad person.

    When someone is a material threat to the lives of people in our in-group, and we have no way to remove their threat, hoping for their death isn’t “being a bad person”.  It is a demonstration that we actually care for our fellow group members.  And that you consider Floridians as members of your in-group, is a good thing.  There are times when I don’t.  There are times when I don’t consider Texans part of my in-group.  And THAT is a sign that I’m a bad person.  When I wish for a tree to finish the job on Greg Abbott?  No, that’s me being a GOOD person, doing the only thing I can (right now) to try to help my fellow Americans who live in Texas.

  91. 91.

    Brachiator

    July 12, 2020 at 4:52 pm

    @Another Scott:

    They’ve pushed this idea that tribalism is more important than anything for so long, without consequence, that they have no actual policy when disaster strikes – nothing but doing the opposite of what actual experts recommend.

    I mentioned in a prior thread that I would regularly see conservatives condemn “so called experts.” This was apparently an official right wing talking point, picked up by right wing nut jobs. But I would never see these people offer alternative “experts” or anything rational that might explain their position.

    Now they look like fools as their refusal to accept science bites them in the butt, and Trump (unsurprisingly) contradicts his earlier statements.

    But what continues to surprise is that these idiots seem to be willing to go down with their own tribalism. They are willing to sacrifice their own constituents. And they are willing to cling to Trump until the bitter end.

  92. 92.

    greenergood

    July 12, 2020 at 4:52 pm

    Have been looking at comments on DU that this is second wave in the UK – this is NOT second wave, this is not even the end of first wave!! You have people in these states that have completely denied/ignored symptoms and have laughed in the face of caution – and in a few weeks time will be completely effed. THAT is not a second wave, because they did NOTHING to stop the FIRST wave. They are still in the first, and gawd help them when the second arrives – because it will. We are working SO HARD here in Scotland to keep to ending the first wave by locking down, tracing, tracking, etc. , while trying to open up places with great caution, and meanwhile England is saying ‘let s open everything up, including English possibly-COVIS people wanting to go to Scotland for vacation – don’t you dare close the border ‘ type stuff – it’s heartbreaking – if we try to say ‘please don’t come here’  the English press labels us as racist anti-English, instead of people trying to maintain  a  better COVID level, If Scotland was replete with the equivalent COVID rate in England, then don’t  be surprised if the border between Scotland and England would be shut NOW (Sorry for rant, but it’s been a long day …)

  93. 93.

    Another Scott

    July 12, 2020 at 4:53 pm

    @Barbara: I saw yesterday (?) that Fauci said he hasn’t briefed Donnie in months.  I’m not surprised – the enablers’ MO is to ignore reality and pretend it doesn’t exist.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  94. 94.

    Kirk Spencer

    July 12, 2020 at 4:54 pm

    @Baud: yes. sinking submarines (Thresher and Scorpion), enemy action (Liberty and maybe the Scorpion), crew stupidity (USS Evans), and more have caused the lost of several US Navy ships since WWII.

    edited – and I see HumboldtBlue beat me to it.

  95. 95.

    JD in SF

    July 12, 2020 at 4:55 pm

    I sincerely hope that this ‘jackass recovers from his bout with THE HOAX. I just want to note that if I expected to see an illustration in the dictionary for comorbidity, his photo pretty well nails it.

  96. 96.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 4:56 pm

    @Baud:

    YW

  97. 97.

    JD in SF

    July 12, 2020 at 4:58 pm

    @zhena gogolia: just keep watching the video of Tiger the cat at Canterbury.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    July 12, 2020 at 4:58 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    The Frank Evans was a cluster of Trumpian proportions.

  99. 99.

    Mary G

    July 12, 2020 at 4:58 pm

    I tweeted this:

    @Flotus said it with a jacket:”I really don’t care, do u?”

    Well, I don’t actually mean that, no one deserves to get this horrendous disease, and I hope he recovers and cleans up his act by listening to doctors and scientists.— Mary Michel Green (@marymichelgreen) July 11, 2020

    Not sure I meant the second part, but I do agree with Michelle Obama – it’s very tempting to hate these people as much as they hate us, but I don’t want to sink to their level. Got a lot of likes and replies (for me), including this:

    pic.twitter.com/2cc32612ZL— ?? (@patrona1) July 12, 2020

    Which is a fair cop.

  100. 100.

    Miss Bianca

    July 12, 2020 at 4:58 pm

    @Martin:

    exercises would be “conducted in a safe and positive environment.”

    Wow, what a relief. I’m so glad that ICE’s training program for white domestic terrorists is going to be taking place in a “safe and positive environment.”

    Hate to think they’d be treating their new recruits the way they’ll be training them to treat others.

  101. 101.

    Brachiator

    July 12, 2020 at 4:59 pm

    @patrick II:

    We are supposed to trust scientists, and that lie for what he thought was a good cause has caused much harm.

    What caused harm and what continues to cause harm, is Trump’s incompetence and his refusal to deal with the pandemic.

  102. 102.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 5:00 pm

    @Baud:

    He’s erasing every vestige of the Turkish civil life envisioned by Ataturk.

    Istanbul won’t like it, the Ecumenical Patriarch will hate it, the remaining Greeks will hate it, but rube fundamentalist Islamic wingnuts will love it.

  103. 103.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 5:00 pm

    @Kirk Spencer: The first one that I vividly remember was the Thresher.    My parents had a radio in the kitchen tuned to whatever channel had breaking news.   It was how we listened to baseball games also.

  104. 104.

    ballerat

    July 12, 2020 at 5:01 pm

    Little piggy iggy eyes. Fuck him.

  105. 105.

    Another Scott

    July 12, 2020 at 5:02 pm

    @patrick II: Trouble is, there aren’t any masks available to “scoop up”.  Months later, there still aren’t enough being made.  Similarly with nitrile or latex or vinyl gloves.  They just aren’t available.  (Recall that tweet this morning with the table showing the stockpile.)

    The Defense Production Act was created for instances like these – when there’s a national emergency and the government needs to direct companies to do whatever it takes to make more of whatever is needed.  Donnie deliberately failed to invoke the DPA to make more and people are getting infected and dying as a result.

    Fauci’s comment wasn’t horrible.  Healthcare workers did need to be prioritized – and they still do because there still isn’t enough.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  106. 106.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 5:02 pm

    @Mary G: Herman Cain was hospitalized with the virus and he’ll return to his same old spiteful self.  I got mine so f..k u.

  107. 107.

    Heywood J.

    July 12, 2020 at 5:08 pm

    It figures that Florida would put Mr. Creosote from The Meaning of Life in a gubmint position. Well, buddy, science needs a quick word with you.

    As a county employee (in California) myself, in a 60% Trump county, it’s taken some time for people to come around on this issue here as well. But even without official mandates, even conservative employees have been pretty conscientious about wearing the mask. Many of them are nearing retirement, or have elderly parents and grandparents, and so the risk is clear to them.

  108. 108.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 5:08 pm

    @JPL:

    The first one that I vividly remember was the Thresher

    I watched this excellent documentary on her sinking about a year ago.

  109. 109.

    Tony Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 5:10 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    You want good news?

    In a few months you get to help vote the Grifting Orange Prick and his namesake Party out of office. Over here we’ve got FOUR AND A HALF YEARS of this shit to go, and come January it gets a LOT worse.

    I only wish I had as much good to look forward to.

  110. 110.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 5:11 pm

    @JPL: NYPost has a Biden hit piece on how his relatives tend to get off with slaps on the wrist.   Rather than link to it, I will let you know that Ashley, his daughter was caught with pot 21 years ago.   I’m shocked.

    TIL Joe Biden’s daughter is white.

  111. 111.

    Gravenstone

    July 12, 2020 at 5:12 pm

    @JPL:  Was going to say that we haven’t heard anything about Cain since the news of his hospitalization.

    Unfortunately, when I went to confirm any news updates, I happened across his Twitter feed. Yeah, alive and still an asshole in every conceivable fashion. Shame, that.

  112. 112.

    raven

    July 12, 2020 at 5:12 pm

    @Kirk Spencer: I have a friend who was a crew member on the Melbourne. They send a few guys to the memorial service for the Evans every year. They blamed the Aussie Captain for years but final put the blame where it should have been. It’s sucks that those guys are not on the Wall. Fuck some “territorial limits”.

  113. 113.

    Heywood J.

    July 12, 2020 at 5:13 pm

    @Martin: Great point. Really, Fauci should have resigned in protest a couple months ago, and gone to work for Biden anyway. Fauci turns 80 in December and doesn’t need this dumpster fire. He can and should do what he wants, what he knows to be the right thing.

    I don’t know if he really thinks he’s making a difference by at least making Jeffrey Dahmer work with one hand tied behind his back or what. But he needs to get away from these monsters regardless. Let them have Birx, she’s made her choice.

  114. 114.

    Heywood J.

    July 12, 2020 at 5:14 pm

    @JPL:

    Wait till they find out Eric has a basement full of hitchhiker corpses. Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

  115. 115.

    Jinchi

    July 12, 2020 at 5:15 pm

    @patrick II: He admitted during congressional testimony he said that because there was a shortage of masks and he didn’t want people buying them in stead of care workers. That is just a mistake.

    It was a mistake, but a forgivable one. At the time hospitals were desperately short and stores were cleared out of medical quality masks after everybody bought them up for themselves.

    The real mistake was telling everyone that homemade masks were useless.  A homemade mask will not protect for long in an environment with constant exposure to the virus. They are good enough to protect against incidental exposure, but only help to control the pandemic if used by a large percentage of the population.

  116. 116.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 5:20 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: It’s up to eighteen but still amazing for a ship that size.

  117. 117.

    Tony Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 5:20 pm

    @greenergood:

    Don’t apologise, you’re entirely right to be pissed off. Scotland is trying to deal with the pandemic rationally and correctly, but is saddled with a National Government down in London led by knaves, traitors and knavish traitors. There’s going to be an explosion in Coronavirus infections showing up soon that even the book-cookers in power can’t disguise and you can bet your arse that the number one priority for Chubby of Chequers won’t be stopping it spreading into every corner of the UK, because that’s exactly what he and his handlers want.

    Anger is the only rational response to the situation we’re in.

  118. 118.

    Jinchi

    July 12, 2020 at 5:20 pm

    @Barbara: I would take bets they try to make him sign an NDA.

    The only NDA Fauci is obligated to sign is one protecting national security – and he would have signed that long ago. There can’t be any language specific to Trump, his policies, or his effectiveness as a leader.

  119. 119.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 5:21 pm

    @oldster: I assume you wear a mask.    That’s the difference.

  120. 120.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 5:21 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: There was an interesting article at the Atlantic some months ago about how the navy (and presumably military writ large) had gone into the lean operations thing, with warships with drastically reduced staffing, and crew serving multiple roles  at once.

    I’m not sure how an LHD in port would be staffed (poorly, I would  imagine), but reading that article I couldn’t help but think about how fires would be fought when so much of naval firefighting is throwing manpower to contain and fight fires.

  121. 121.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 12, 2020 at 5:22 pm

    @Nicole: I don’t have any sympathy for them either.  I do sympathize with the healthcare workers and essential employees who are putting their lives at risk to serve us during this pandemic. Too many of them are succumbing to the Coronavirus.

  122. 122.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 12, 2020 at 5:22 pm

    So sad.

    Parscale hits a rough patch as Trump’s campaign manager https://t.co/pi40lPE1RJ— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) July 12, 2020

  123. 123.

    gwangung

    July 12, 2020 at 5:23 pm

    @Brachiator: Idiots indeed.

    Major League Baseball batters FAIL seven times out of ten at bat. Still, I’d rather have a MLB player at bat in the bottom of the ninth than some yokel from the stands yammering about hitting.

  124. 124.

    Redshift

    July 12, 2020 at 5:23 pm

    @debbie:

    Like the WH wasn’t saying the very same things! 

    Typical wingnut “logic.” If we can dig up any time you were wrong in the past, you’re totally discredited and we never have to listen to you, but our leaders can be wrong ten times a day and twenty on weekends and they’re still perfect and unquestionable.

  125. 125.

    zhena gogolia

    July 12, 2020 at 5:24 pm

    @Tony Jay:

    I know. Putin’s in until 2036.

  126. 126.

    raven

    July 12, 2020 at 5:26 pm

    @Baud: The Evans was cut in half by the Aussie carrier, they towed the surviving half to Subic so, technically, she wasn’t lost. 74 sailors died though.

  127. 127.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 12, 2020 at 5:29 pm

    When you are a walking multiple morbidity, you would think it would be in the best interest of you and everyone around you to wear masks during a pandemic.

    Cole!  But FREEDUMB!

  128. 128.

    ThresherK

    July 12, 2020 at 5:32 pm

    @gwangung:

    From The Man Show, way back when, with Adam Carolla (who once had a bit of charm) and Jimmy Kimmel, on Going to the Ballgame:

    If you’re a grown man, wear a team cap, and replica jersey, and bring your glove. Sure, the manager has a dozen extra professional players on the bench, but you never know when he’s gonna look up into the stands and say “I need you in the game!”

  129. 129.

    MisterForkbeard

    July 12, 2020 at 5:32 pm

    @Martin: I was going to say. That sounds an awful lot like “Biden’s daughter was a middle-class white woman and got off with the treatment a middle-class white woman would normally get.

    We’re going to see a lot of this shit in the coming months, :(

  130. 130.

    Starfish

    July 12, 2020 at 5:33 pm

    @Baud: Zing!

  131. 131.

    Emma from FL

    July 12, 2020 at 5:34 pm

    @zhena gogolia: There are millions of people and things in the world that are good. Don’t fall into despair.

  132. 132.

    Redshift

    July 12, 2020 at 5:35 pm

    @Gravenstone:

    Unfortunately, when I went to confirm any news updates, I happened across his Twitter feed. Yeah, alive and still an asshole in every conceivable fashion. Shame, that. 

    I don’t take that as proof of life. It wouldn’t surprise me if his staff is running his Twitter, or even if his staff has always done it and he’s never touched Twitter.

  133. 133.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 12, 2020 at 5:38 pm

    ‼️37-year-old #Ohio veteran—who posted a widely shared anti-#mask screed on Facebook—tested positive for #COVID19 on July 1 and died just 3 days later. He had no known pre-existing health conditions.This deadly #coronavirus can kill you, so #WearAMask!?https://t.co/iPSt0dZ7HF— Dr. Dena Grayson (@DrDenaGrayson) July 12, 2020

  134. 134.

    Tony Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Czar Vladimir is in until he does or is rendered unable to control the machine he’s constructed around him. All we can do is vote against his colonial board whenever we get the chance.

  135. 135.

    Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    @Jinchi:

    there had been zero tests of the effectiveness of cloth masks  regarding the novel SARS Covid 19 virus. At the time, we barely had a clue about it’s size, ( it’s tiny for a virus) and the transmission method was just being investigated.

    Judging things with hindsight isn’t productive.

  136. 136.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 5:41 pm

    @JPL:

    Looks like standard criminal case handling of upper middle class white people to me. Everything is within the ranges I’m accustomed to, including the DUIs.

  137. 137.

    ballerat

    July 12, 2020 at 5:42 pm

    @Another Scott: And it’s killing their own people

    I am OK with this. I didn’t want this in the beginning, but now I see it’s the only way.

    I think William Tecumseh Sherman would’ve understood this.

    There is no other way to get through to these people.

  138. 138.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 5:43 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: I mean, hell, the niece appears to have taken some sugar daddy’s card for a rather long ride with his acquiescence, later revoked.

    Full restitution buys a great deal of forgiveness.

  139. 139.

    Brachiator

    July 12, 2020 at 5:43 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    God, is there any good news anywhere? This blog is making me sick. I know it’s reality, but can’t we find anything anywhere that’s good?

    Well. Here’s how they have opened up outdoor seating in Pasadena, California.

  140. 140.

    Redshift

    July 12, 2020 at 5:44 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: I can’t decide which is more delicious, Parscale being a scapegoat because Trump can never be at fault, or sources saying there’s campaign stuff Parscale doesn’t understand as well as people like Jared. ?

    Who could have imagined that the Trump management style of giving a bunch of people unclear overlapping responsibilities and having them fight wouldn’t result in an effective political campaign?

  141. 141.

    raven

    July 12, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    @Brachiator: Jesus fucking christ a Joel Osteen ad!

  142. 142.

    Chacal Charles Calthrop

    July 12, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    And if you’re a woman you’ll have to cover your head.

    @Baud: Islam is a proselytizing religion and anyone can go into any mosque that’s open just as anyone can go into any church that’s open. You just have to be prepared to show respect, that’s all.

  143. 143.

    NotMax

    July 12, 2020 at 5:48 pm

    @JPL

    Mom does something similar now for when my step-sister and her hubby swing by. She sets up distanced TV tables on her apartment’s terrace so they can eat together. Said hubby is immuno-compromised (diagnosed with ALS late last year) so they are extra cautious to begin with.

    @zhena gogolia

    Ventured to peek outside and am happy to report it is NOT raining frogs.

  144. 144.

    Uncle Cosmo

    July 12, 2020 at 5:48 pm

    @Baud: The Turks say they’re going to preserve the contents of the building (which just FTR was a Christian church for a few centuries longer than it was a mosque). But Islam does not allow the depiction of the human form. I guess the best we can hope for is that they’ll do like the Ottomans & hide all the Byzantine mosaics behind whitewash (that could be removed without damaging the artwork if the Turks ever change their minds).

    Frankly if I had just one cruise missile & had to choose between launching it at Putin or Erdogan, I might very well go with the latter. Motherfucker has singlehandedly demolished Atatürk’s secular republic & there’s no one to stop him.

  145. 145.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 5:51 pm

    @Martin:

    with drastically reduced staffing, and crew serving multiple roles at once

    This issue was at the forefront of the USS John McCain accident that left 10 sailors dead.

    The comments from the crew was that they were woefully understaffed, overworked and had little to no time to do the requisite book work to stay abreast of their rating.

    New technology that wasn’t as good as the “old” tech such as touchscreens for ship commands were pointed out as serious issues as well.

    I wanna say Adam did a post on the fallout from that collision.

    Here’s one of the articles I read about the incident.

  146. 146.

    RSA

    July 12, 2020 at 5:56 pm

    @JMG:

    It is my understanding Fauci is a career civil servant, a senior one to be sure… I don’t think he’d align with the Biden campaign in any event.

    Right, that’s my understanding as well, as a federal government civil servant (though of course not at Fauci’s level).  The rules are pretty straightforward when it comes to partisan political activity: NO.  Fauci can make public statements about what needs to be done, about current policies being bad, etc., following whatever regulations are in place for someone in his position. He’s not allowed to make those statements explicitly as part of the Biden campaign, though, while he’s still in government.

  147. 147.

    oldster

    July 12, 2020 at 5:56 pm

    @JPL:

    Yes. Over the mouth, nose, and all four chins.

    I may be fat, but I’m not stupid.

  148. 148.

    Elizabelle

    July 12, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:   His FB page is still up.  RIP to a Trump supporter.  Sucks to not be able to vote, hmmm?

    In his world, wearing a mask against COVID was the highway to wearing a burkha.  If you’re forced to wear one, you can be forced to wear the other.  Wingnut logic.

  149. 149.

    raven

    July 12, 2020 at 5:58 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: The North Carolina has a display in the FDC center describing how they experimented with a digital fire direction and concluded their analog was so accurate it was a waste of money.

  150. 150.

    Brachiator

    July 12, 2020 at 5:58 pm

    @raven:

    Huh?

  151. 151.

    raven

    July 12, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    @Brachiator: when I hit it that’s what played before the feature came up.

  152. 152.

    raven

    July 12, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    @raven: yep, did it again

  153. 153.

    namekarB

    July 12, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    @Baud:

    Joe Biden: Hello Dr. Fauci? Yes I’d like you to be on my transition team. November 4 head on over to the Department of Health and Human Services, the NIH and the CDC and take charge of transitioning everything and everyone so we’re ready to implement in January

  154. 154.

    Keith P.

    July 12, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: He looks like one of those guys you know is an almost-empty bathroom because you can hear him breathing while he’s trying to take a shit in the last stall.

  155. 155.

    Benw

    July 12, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    No one saw it coming in Italy, a few people saw it coming in NYC, EVERYONE saw it coming in FL and TX. Argh

  156. 156.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 6:07 pm

    @raven:

    I’m always intrigued at just how effective some of the “old” technology was and how ground-breaking those techs were when first introduced.

  157. 157.

    Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    @Baud:

    Ergodan is the only one keeping elements of the FSA alive in northern Syria, preventing a Putin/Assad reconquest of the whole country. Yes, he’s doing it to fuck with the Kurds and prevent a refugee crisis, but he’s doing it.

    He’s also the only NATO Member blowing up Russian shit, UAE shot, Merc Shit, Blackwater shit up in Lybia allowing the UN recognized GNA to survive the attacks of the American General Haftar.

    It’s a very fucked up world these days.

  158. 158.

    Jinchi

    July 12, 2020 at 6:12 pm

    @Jay: I think we’re 90% in agreement, but to be clear, people were debating the efficacy of masks at the time, particularly because they were so common in places like South Korea. This was Fauci in March.

    Fauci: “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face”

    Note he’s very specifically framing the answer in terms of perfect protection for the wearer of the mask and he’s basically saying it’s useless, which is distinct from ‘we don’t know the answer yet’.

    That was a serious mistake. But this was his key message.

    LaPook: But it can lead to a shortage of masks?

    Fauci: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it.

    He was focused on ensuring masks for the people on the frontlines. The takeaway for anyone listening was ‘Don’t wear a mask. We need them for our doctors and nurses.’

  159. 159.

    JPL

    July 12, 2020 at 6:13 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: That was excellent and have sent it to my brother.   Before the craziness, old friends stopped by and I wish I had seen it then.  He was a long time worker at Electric Boat. (engineer)

  160. 160.

    Jinchi

    July 12, 2020 at 6:16 pm

    @Benw: Even worse, once the pandemic did hit Italy and NYC, local officials acted. In Florida, Texas and Georgia the reaction is ‘Meh, it’ll go away on it’s own.’

  161. 161.

    Brachiator

    July 12, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @raven:

    when I hit it that’s what played before the feature came up.

    I’m using the Brave browser on a mobile device. No ads show for me at all.

    Not sure if a different link might also have a crazy ad.

  162. 162.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    When the horror is in every direction there really isn’t much possibility of missing it.

  163. 163.

    Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Translation,

    the old tech was was as accurate and fast as it needed to be to target the guns. The new “tech” made no improvements, just a waste of money. Oh, and new. Blinking LEDs and a thing that goes “bing”.

  164. 164.

    Barry

    July 12, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @James E Powell: “These polls showing Biden ahead are going to come back to haunt us. The race will tighten, because it always does, and the press/media will start calling Trump the comeback kid. Remember, all he has to do is not be a total a hole for 48 hours and they all start declaring him to be forever changed into a great leader.”

     

    I think that that zombie is finally dead for a while.  Also, the coronavirus is exploding even in Pure Heartland God’s Country Faithful Trump states, and the ‘v-shaped’ recession is where all of those are – in fantasy land.

    @James E Powell:

  165. 165.

    ballerat

    July 12, 2020 at 6:22 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Good. Fuck him too. Got what he deserved. How many did he kill by that screed?

    For every one of these self-centered muh-freedumb covidiot motherfuckers who sickens and dies, there is at least one other person who tried to avoid spreading the virus and sickened and died. And countless others who were helpless to wear a mask, like my uncle in a memory care facility, who got covid and 3 months later is still not fully physically recovered. Or my cousin, who did what he could to be safe but still died.

    I’m saving my kind words for the ones who tried to do right or were helpless to do anything.

    Fuck these trumpers, these selfish destructive rightwing fools. Fuck them to their own deaths.  They have earned it. I will not now or ever give a tin shit about them.

  166. 166.

    Another Scott

    July 12, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    @Jay: OTOH, old tech eventually breaks or wears out and it becomes impossible to get parts.  Or the company has changed hands 5 times and all the drawings and parts were lost.  Or it requires 15 people to run it and that existing “cheap” solution ends up having a lifetime cost 3x what starting over would cost.

    When lives are at stake, and when equipment has to last 50-75 years but nobody wants to pay what’s necessary to keep it running that long, there are no good choices.

    tl;dr – The people who make these tech choices aren’t stupid.  There often are no good answers.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  167. 167.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    @Nora:

    Well I agree with you. shitforbrains is an asshole every second, of every day. I believe that’s what his “supporters” think is required of a political office holder. They look in a mirror and all they see is asshole, why should they believe that it’s different for everyone else?

  168. 168.

    Luciamia

    July 12, 2020 at 6:24 pm

    concerned about the number of times Dr. Fauci has been wrong on things” and included a lengthy list of the scientist’s comments from early in the outbreak. Those included his”

    ###############################

    Sacrlficial lamb’s gotta be sacrificed. Blaming China hasn’t worked, or Obama or BLM or even Soros.

  169. 169.

    Annie

    July 12, 2020 at 6:24 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

     

    Fauci is an employee of the National Institutes of Health.  He is civil service and can’t be fired from that job without cause.

     

    The White House Coronavirus Task Force is a creation of the Resident and Fauci could be removed from that.

  170. 170.

    Ksmiami

    July 12, 2020 at 6:26 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I’m way ahead of you dude…

  171. 171.

    Martin

    July 12, 2020 at 6:26 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: So, the challenge with analogue interfaces is that they aren’t adaptable. 747s used to need an engineer because there was no way to fit all of the stuff needed to fly the plane in front of the pilot.

    The upside to analogue interface is that everything has a clear and specific role, and in a group setting, anyone can look at the gauge or state of the switch to see what’s going on. The downside is that you need a high level of expertise to operate them, and there are an increasing number of things you simply can’t do with them.

    The problem with digital interfaces is that you’re trying to solve the problems of analogue interfaces which too often results in ignoring the advantages of them.

    From the John McCain, one of the problems was that it was unclear which set of control were doing what. With analog controls, that was nearly impossible – you’re either in front of the only controls that can do that, or you aren’t. With digital, you need  to be very explicit about that, with a very clear state machine being enforced: ‘this control station cannot be configured to do x until every other control station has been locked out of doing x and the operator needs to know exactly what the state is’. Clearly they didn’t do that in the design.

    Digital interfaces are hard. Their flexibility requires a higher level of diligence in design. But, if you can get that right, you can do much more with them. Redundancy is much easier to accomplish in digital design, which I would imagine be very good for warships.

  172. 172.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 6:29 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Mid 80s, some dumbass decided to start offering digital speedometers in cars (as in, no analog readout – just the number).  As it turned out, research showed a notable lag in reaction time – the brain has to take extra steps to assign meaning to numbers. The analog readout seemed to produce clearer, faster understanding, particular with the delta change when slowing up or accelerating.

    I think the numeric readings only thing lasted about 2 years.

  173. 173.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 6:30 pm

    @JPL:

    Yes, that’s some excellent work.

    Submariners are definitely another breed.

  174. 174.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 12, 2020 at 6:31 pm

    @Ksmiami:

    My guess is that there’d be substantial overlap.

    We could split the list….

  175. 175.

    Nicole

    July 12, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:  I do sympathize with the healthcare workers and essential employees who are putting their lives at risk to serve us during this pandemic. Too many of them are succumbing to the Coronavirus.

    Absolutely!  But when it’s requests for prayers for the right-wingers who get sick, eh, I’ll save the energy, thanks.

  176. 176.

    Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 6:34 pm

    @Jinchi:

    yup, my personal stash of N95’s were gone in March, long after the shelves had been cleared of gloves and masks.

    I was doling them out, one and two at a time to Contractors and workers who needed them on the jobsites for health and safely reasons.

    Had lots of gloves at home, ( painting boxes filled with drop cloths, brushes, rollers, solvents, gloves, etc),

    found a Phillipino corner store that had the surgical, disposable N95’s, every box of 100 you bought, ( overpriced, no biggie) they donated a box of MN95’s to Royal Columbian Hospital. No, only Care Workers and Hospitals were allowed to buy MN95’s from the back door, “I know a guy” supply chain the had set up.

    Got my sewn masks in March, local, ethical, well made.

    Corp  managed to keep us in disposable surgical masks and gloves through out, but it was tight at times and rationed. Last week, for the first time, we have free masks and gloves available at the doors, for customers.

    but in March, people were stealing PPE from cashiers, smashing hand sanitization stations off the walls to steal them, even stealing soap dispensers and TP from the public washrooms.

     

    People forget that shit and what was happening at the time.

    White people were looting Walmarts for Bogroll.

  177. 177.

    debbie

    July 12, 2020 at 6:36 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I’m not sure what else Fauci could have done at that point.

  178. 178.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 6:36 pm

    @Nicole:

    Trump has effectively reduced my ability to care for right-wingers.

    Welcome to a very, big club.

     

    @Barbara:

    So are they going to keep him on when he tells them to stuff it?

  179. 179.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 12, 2020 at 6:39 pm

    Trump ripped as a ‘traitor’ by veterans for his mask photo-op at Walter Reed Hospital https://t.co/062llV2Ss5— Raw Story (@RawStory) July 12, 2020

  180. 180.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    It actually is a death cult at this point.

    That’s not actually new, it’s always been a death cult. They just didn’t realize that they would be killing themselves.

  181. 181.

    Bill Arnold

    July 12, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    @JPL:
    I’m a bit less charitable. He misrepresented the then-current state of knowledge. Here’s full-er context:
    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/outdated-fauci-video-on-face-masks-shared-out-of-context/

    LaPook, March 8: There’s a lot of confusion among people, and misinformation, surrounding face masks. Can you discuss that?
    Fauci: The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else… Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.
    LaPook: You’re sure of it? Because people are listening really closely to this.
    Fauci: …There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.

    At the time, there was precisely no evidence that indirect contact transmission as described is a real mode of transmission for SARS-CoV-2. (There is still precisely no solid evidence, FWIW, as the WHO states in a linked doc below.)
    There was weak evidence at that time for the efficacy of masks for protecting wearers. There was limited observational evidence developing (Hong Kong, etc) that masks were effective for source control if worn by infected individuals. There were already several documented large clusters that were hard to explain without allowing for long-range airborne spread and asymptomatic or lightly-symptomatic or presymptomic SARS-CoV-2 infected individuals. I was extremely pissed off at CDC and WHO after reviewing the then-available scientific literature.

    They fucked up. The problem was that no science on cloth masks had been done after the developed world moved to disposable masks, and no (obscenely unethical) RCTs were done in any pandemics to determine the efficacy of masks in limiting the spread of a pandemic virus with respiratory spread. (There was some observational history in the 1918 pandemic, but not strong, and some weak studies at the time suggesting that gauze masks were not effective at protecting wearers.)
    Basically, it was believers in scientific dogma who refused to shift until a few mask experiments were done and airborne SARS-CoV-2 spread confirmed, with hundreds of thousands of human beings killed by this dogma. The WHO still list of NPI measures still has hand sanitation as the first measure, with mask wearing in public indoor places like #4 or #5 in the list.
    Transmission of SARS-CoV-2: implications for infection prevention precautions (WHO Scientific Brief, 9 July 2020)

  182. 182.

    Sab

    July 12, 2020 at 6:46 pm

    deleted

  183. 183.

    debbie

    July 12, 2020 at 6:47 pm

    @Bill Arnold:

    The context was that he was worried about people hoarding N-95s, which healthcare workers desperately needed.

  184. 184.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Interesting.

    And to an earlier comment from you regarding Biden’s niece, I covered dozens of plea hearings in which the first-time offender was given what appear to be lenient terms.

    People unfamiliar with how the courts actually work would get bent out of shape over what were routine proceedings in criminal court.

  185. 185.

    Bill Arnold

    July 12, 2020 at 6:53 pm

    @debbie:
    Yes, that was the context. Lying by a scientist (he’s has an amazing list of publications) is not a good look. And health care workers were not exactly well served by the patient load, which would have been reduced substantially (maybe a factor of 10) by early ubiquitous usage of cloth masks or surgical masks. Some of the people who worked (survived working) in the New York City area will be emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives.
    That was supposed to be linked to @Jinchi:, sorry.

  186. 186.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 6:54 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    There was a tweet line on this, with one moron saying that the fire chief should be fired if he refused to fight the fire.

    For anyone that might not know a major fire onboard ship is extremely difficult and dangerous to fight. And I know this because I’d been to a short course on fighting shipboard fires – which meant actually putting them out, and my damage control duty was compartment entry person. First in, actual firefighting guys/fire hoses behind me. At some point those not engulfed in the flames have to jump ship or die. My answer to the above moron was that a major ship fire can destroy the ship or destroy the ship and kill a bunch of people. There may be no other choice but to let it burn. I’ve been onboard a ship with 2 separate fires, both electrical, both out in just minutes but both also at very early in the morning, when 2/3 of the ship is asleep. No one on board that ship was concerned with anything but putting them out – and surviving. And being in the North Atlantic, above the Arctic Circle, in the cold part of the year, without any practical survival gear, with the nearest ship being either a Russian ship or a lot of hours away, the prospect of being in the water was neither inviting nor appealing.

  187. 187.

    Benw

    July 12, 2020 at 6:56 pm

    @Jinchi: worse than nothing – they’ve actively prevented local officials from implementing safety restrictions! Fuckers

  188. 188.

    Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    @Another Scott:

    helped design and build the digital FCS’s for the last round of the USN Boomers and Attack subs.

    also kept the DG280’s running.

    Funny thing is guns also wear out. That’s what ballistic tables are for.

    Sadly, new doesn’t always mean better. 2008 VW City has no recalls, no service notes. After making the same model for 10 years, they finally got it “perfect”. So of course, whole new design for 2009.

  189. 189.

    Robert Sneddon

    July 12, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    @raven: That sounds… odd. The North Carolina was a pre-WWII BB designed and built before the Iowa class BBs which did get a major gun upgrade, the NGFS before they were put back into service as part of Reagan’s 600-ship Navy boondoggle. The NGFS did stuff like firing a single round and tracking it with radar before correcting the other guns but the North Carolina was put into reserve in, wiki wiki 1947 and struck from the Navy register in 1960, a long time before any digital fire control systems would have been readily available. Colour me puzzled.

  190. 190.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 7:01 pm

    @Ruckus:

    The idea that some rando on twitter has even the first inkling what a firefighter does much less how to battle a shipboard fire is absurd.

    I hated, and I can’t overstate how much, I hated shipboard training drills when at Hickam.

    And I may have pointed out it was a Navy fire training session that left me, two other training firefighters and our captain in a burn house that almost immediately went to more than 2,000 degrees because the other training crew didn’t know what the fuck they were doing.

    Tight spaces, no visibility … fuck that. My brother was the first to text me that SDFD had pulled out and it was going to burn to the hull. He spent 30-plus years as a fire captain at the Naval yard and his wife works for NASSCO.

  191. 191.

    rikyrah

    July 12, 2020 at 7:02 pm

    @JPL:

    Awe???

  192. 192.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 7:12 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Where did you get that info? I haven’t seen anything more than it was burning and they had stopped fighting and retreated.

  193. 193.

    Robert Sneddon

    July 12, 2020 at 7:29 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: I saw mention the LHD Bonhomme Richard had just come out of an 8-month refit so it’s entirely possible it wasn’t actually crewed up with enough servicemen and women ready to fight a major fire onboard. Refit operations have a nasty habit of setting fire to things — the Russian aircraft carrier Kuznetsov caught fire in drydock a few months back and one of the Royal Navy’s attack subs also had a fire during refit some time ago.

    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/12/13/fire-sweeps-russias-only-aircraft-carrier/

  194. 194.

    rikyrah

    July 12, 2020 at 7:50 pm

    @ballerat:

    ????

  195. 195.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    @Martin:

    I was stationed on a DDG during my tour and it was supposed to have a crew of approx 350, while it actually had only about 300. Some devisions were massively short handed but as the crew was made up of people trained for a specific job, like the guys who manned the boilers and as long as they were lit were on duty 6 hr on, 6 hrs off. That means that about 24-36 hrs before departing after being in port for a while, they started working that schedule until about 12 hrs after securing in port for an extended time. Any foreign ports where the boilers had to keep making steam, 6 on, 6 off. Any time underway 6 on, 6 off. They were missing 1/3 their crewing needs. This was a lot of missing bodies. My working section was missing 2 people, both of the senior staff E6 and E7.

    The point was that this isn’t unusual for the navy, but it seems that it has gotten a lot worse now than 50 yrs ago. At that time the navy was also trying to be a 600 combat ship navy, which they never did. Too expensive, not enough bodies. Today that number is less than 300. Still too expensive and not enough bodies.

  196. 196.

    Ladyraxterinok

    July 12, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Interesting he and Trump are both rushing to eradicate those aspects of their countries’ culture, history, education, governmental strucures, etc, for which the countries have been most admired by other countries

  197. 197.

    Another Scott

    July 12, 2020 at 8:03 pm

    @Jay: Neat.

    I work on some very specialized 35+ year old equipment at work.  It’s kinda like George Washington’s hatchet – the head has been replaced 3x and the handle 5x but it’s still his hatchet.  ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  198. 198.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 8:05 pm

    @NotMax:

    ALS. Damn, that’s serious. Have a friend who came down with it. It was horrible, on him, on his family, he succumbed about 3-4 yrs ago. Good luck to everyone.

  199. 199.

    Ladyraxterinok

    July 12, 2020 at 8:07 pm

    @Heywood J.:

    I turn 81 in January. Extremely reassuring to see someone my age is’with it’ mentally.

  200. 200.

    Ladyraxterinok

    July 12, 2020 at 8:12 pm

    @Tony Jay:

    Why do they want it to spread? How in heaven’s name can they benefit from that?

  201. 201.

    HumboldtBlue

    July 12, 2020 at 8:14 pm

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    My brother just had to have the car talk with our 88-year-old dad who was insisting he was going to drive himself to a doctor’s appointment.

    We discussed our concerns as kids between each other and all were adamantly against his wishes. His wicked smart brain is still all there but he can never drive again.

    It frustrates him to no end.

  202. 202.

    Kent

    July 12, 2020 at 8:39 pm

    @JMG: Yes.  I don’t see him joining the Biden campaign.  More likely might be an hour long show each night on CNN where he talks pandemic and gets lots of interesting guests.  I bet CNN would kill for that.  Fauci  Unplugged!

  203. 203.

    Kent

    July 12, 2020 at 8:46 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Mid 80s, some dumbass decided to start offering digital speedometers in cars (as in, no analog readout – just the number).  As it turned out, research showed a notable lag in reaction time – the brain has to take extra steps to assign meaning to numbers. The analog readout seemed to produce clearer, faster understanding, particular with the delta change when slowing up or accelerating.

    I think the numeric readings only thing lasted about 2 years.

    my 2016 Prius only has a digital speedometer

  204. 204.

    Ladyraxterinok

    July 12, 2020 at 8:53 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I have rheumatoid arthritis. When I was in mif-60s, my son politely pointed out I could no longer react properly to be able to drive safely. He bluntly asked if I wanted to risk hurting someone. Point made.

  205. 205.

    Jay

    July 12, 2020 at 8:57 pm

    @Another Scott:

    done craploads of neat. Some time, I’ll tell you about the Rescue  Subs, Newt Suits, the MIR rescue and the Kursk.

     

     

     

    these days , big box retail.

    it is what it is,

  206. 206.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 9:00 pm

    @Martin:

    Even with analog controls a navy combat ship needs backup controls and has them. All of the equipment I was responsible for had at least one backup if it was critical, some had 2 backup systems.

  207. 207.

    cain

    July 12, 2020 at 9:03 pm

    @Miss Bianca: 

    Yep. Rooting not only for injuries, but mortal illness. That’s how far I’ve fallen from “when they go low, we go high.”

    When they go low, we put boot on their backs and keep them there.

  208. 208.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Yep, shipboard fire is pretty rarely a non disaster. Tightly packed, with things that burn inside, and a lot of fuel of some ignitable quality, (I understand that a modern aircraft carrier has some million gallons of jet turbine fuel on board. Once the ship I was on was refitted to burn JP5 or really anything in that class of fuel, we refueled from the aircraft carrier that we were steaming with when necessary. And the burning was dramatically cleaner than when we burned bunker oil, which had to be heated just to pump. Also it cut our refueling time in half.) Fire on board ship is so important to survival that there is a separate alarm to let everyone know it’s a fire. On the first of those fires I talked about above the OOD rang the general quarters alarm because he forgot about the fire alarm. That cost time that could easily have been critical. It wasn’t but one never knows. And of all the things that I thought that could have gone wrong on a ship, and the list is not all that short, fire is the greatest fear and just about the most likely issue and most likely to put you in the water to see how long you can tread before you get so tired you just give the fuck up. Add in darkness and injured and the words “Fucking god damn motherfuckers, shit fuck, blub blub….. comes to mind.

  209. 209.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2020 at 9:31 pm

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    Mom lived to the day before her 95 birthday. Up till about mid way through 93 she was tough as nails, never really showing her age. She was still working for the city she lived in till 86 or 87. My bosses mom is 93 or 94 and still drives! I once met a man who I would have said was about 65-70 based upon looks, talking and mannerisms. He was 95. I saw him every year after that till he was 104, he passed later that year. Up until he was 102 he really never seemed any older.

    You are as old as you feel and while we may not feel as good as we did at 25, we can still be kicking butt and taking names for over a century. At least I hope so, I’m not close to done here and I am 71, still work as a machinist 3 days a week.

  210. 210.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    July 12, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: My Prius has a digital speedometer(2010 model).

  211. 211.

    Brantl

    July 12, 2020 at 11:33 pm

    @oldster: He’s not fat shaming him, if I told you that guy would be fat even if he were a seal, would seals be offended?

  212. 212.

    Heywood J.

    July 13, 2020 at 12:02 am

    @Ladyraxterinok: I was surprised to see that Dr. Fauci is 79, he looks and sounds younger. He is definitely at a point in his life where he doesn’t need to do this stuff for these damned people.

    Stay safe and healthy. I’m wishing for you (and all of us, of course) to get a new president inaugurated for your birthday.

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