Rep. Richie Neal, D-MA-1, Chair of the House Ways and Means Committee, deserves a primary challenge for dragging his feet in requesting Trump’s tax returns, and his safe (D+12) district would probably elect whoever beat him in the primary. Except this guy:
In a letter to Holyoke Mayor Alex Morse on Thursday, the College Democrats of Massachusetts disavowed their groups from the progressive hopeful, alleging that Morse had inappropriate sexual relations with college students before and during his congressional campaign and used “his position of power for romantic or sexual gain.”
“Numerous incidents over the course of several years have shown that it is no longer appropriate to encourage interaction between College Democrats and Alex Morse,” according to the letter, which was provided to the Massachusetts Daily Collegian by a source inside one of the student organizations.
The behavior in question centered on three issues:
The first issue alleges that Morse regularly matched with students on dating apps, including Tinder and Grindr, who were as young as 18 years old. These students included members of the College Democrats of Massachusetts, UMass Amherst Democrats and other groups in the state.
The second issue, “Using College Democrats events to meet college students and add them on Instagram, adding them to his ‘Close Friends’ story and DMing them, both of which have made young college students uncomfortable,” according to the letter.
“We have heard countless stories of Morse adding students to his ‘Close Friends Story’ and Direct Messaging members of College Democrats on Instagram in a way that makes these students feel pressured to respond due to his status,” the letter read.
The third issue: “Having sexual contact with college students, including at UMass Amherst, where he teaches, and the greater Five College Consortium.”
In a statement provided to the Daily Collegian Friday evening, Morse admitted to having “consensual adult relationships, including some with college students” and “apologized to anyone I have made feel uncomfortable.”
Morse was formerly a lecturer at U Mass Amherst and the only challenger to Neal. Better luck next cycle, I guess. This broke yesterday Friday afternoon, so we’ll see what the Justice Democrats and WFP do about it in the next day or two. Dropping him like a hot potato would be the smart move here. We’ll see how smart they are.
(I initially posted the CNN version of this story, but I replaced it with the U Mass Daily Collegian version, which is better, and they broke the story.)
Baud
I hope those groups withdraw their support.
Why can’t politicians just pay for sex like decent folk?
Parfigliano
How is this guy not fired yet?
joel hanes
The linked article doesn’t give any hints about Neal’s motivation, his reasons for declining to pursue Trump’s finances. Anyone have any sources, or ideas about why that’s so?
In the mean time, Pelosi should put someone else as chair of that committee.
Should have done so a year ago.
Katie Porter?
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Parfigliano: Sorry if it wasn’t clear, he quit lecturing at U Mass.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The Intercept’s Chief Tara Reade Correpsondent is on the story!
with a twitter poll!
Dorothy A. Winsor
For good primary results though, Tulsi Gabbard lost hers.
Ken
Well, just spitballing here you understand, but when your employer’s code of conduct says it’s inappropriate is one great big red flag, wouldn’t you think?
schrodingers_cat
In the water tight bubble of privilege where this blog exists it is more important to criticize Democrats who are not perfect when the Republic is facing its existential crisis.
Also it is amazing how many sexual predators and misogynists these supposed socialists and progressives have in their ranks.
schrodingers_cat
@Dorothy A. Winsor: That is good news!
download my app in the app store mistermix
@schrodingers_cat:
Well, when one of the Democrats in a position of power drags his feet when responding to the existential challenge, as Neal did, he deserves criticism and a primary challenge.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Responses from the Bernie Bros. are…depressing.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Tulsi didn’t run in the primary – she quit to run for President.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Really?
Hm. It’s possible twitter misled me. How is that possible?
Nicole
@Baud:
That didn’t work out so well for Eliot Spitzer, though.
lowtechcyclist
Just so people know, a ‘lecturer’ is basically doing the academic equivalent of piece work. A lecturer isn’t a regular full-time faculty member, s/he is teaching a course or two, here and there, when the university has courses it needs to have taught that can’t be covered by the full-time professors and instructors or by the grad students in the department. So you’re a lecturer during the semesters when you’re teaching a course, and you’re not on the faculty at all during the semesters when you’re not teaching.
So they don’t need to fire him; all they have to do is not ask him to teach any more courses.
Kay
@schrodingers_cat:
Yes, that’s definitely limited to progressive Democrats. Yup. That’s certainly the history of the Democratic Party- “progressive” means “sexual predator”.
lowtechcyclist
I’m totally with mistermix here: Neal is a sorry excuse for a Democrat, and needs a good primary challenger, given that he’s in a D+12 district.
But the appropriate number of sexual harassers and abusers in the Democratic caucus is zero, and Morse should absolutely not be in Congress, even though it means that Neal gets to stick around and gum up the works for another two years.
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh The Putincept!
Fleeting Expletive
I keep seeing references to that phone call between Sheldon Adelson and Trump, but I want to hear it for myself. Does anyone know where it may be posted? Transcript, or preferably the audio.
Thank ewe.
debbie
@Kay:
Seconded. /eyeroll/
Kay
I don’t understand why they didn’t get Trump’s tax returns. I honestly don’t understand this whole reluctance on demanding tax returns at all. Ordinary people turn over tax returns for everything. It is basic information for nearly any large transaction of any kind. It is part of the reason people FILE taxes- because it’s hard to function in a modern economy without turning over a tax return.
Yet for some reason, where rich people are concerned, it’s treated like we asked for him to publish his therapy notes. To me, the squeamishness comes from privilege. I see the same hesitancy in attacking Trump on nepotism. My sense is a LOT of powerful people are vulnerable on that, so no one wants a real analysis. It isn’t just the Trump family you know. That entire White House is staffed with relatives of prestigious or powerful conservatives. It’s absolutely disgusting in a supposed “meritocracy” how much of this is going on.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: Tribune of the masses, the standard bearer of all progressives treated the women in his employ shabbily and had a much harder time conceding to a woman he lost to than he did to a man.
Shahid Buttar (sp?) who is challenging Nancy Pelosi was accused of sexual harrassment and now this guy.
So yes indeed they are paragons of virtue and can only be wronged and are never wrong. My bad for casting aspersions on them.
Baud
@Kay:
I’ll defend her. She didn’t say anything about the problem being limited to progressives or socialists.
Kay
I worry about entrenched privilege for two reasons- there is the equity reason- people lower down the scale should get a shot, that’s my ideological belief, but I also worry about it as far as QUALITY.
We’re getting lower quality elites because these fuckers aren’t competing for their positions. They’re napping up there. There’s no pressure from below to make their positions insecure. One would think that would be the “conservative” argument for a vital working and middle class and also immigration- so the privileged ranks could be knocked out with better up and comers, “strivers”, as Obama called them, but since conservatives abandoned their own godammned arguments I now have to make them, which is just more work for me :)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay:
In both of those cases, as in so many others, I’m still low-key astounded at the lack of simple curiosity, to say nothing of disgust, on the part of a big chunk of voters. Of course Jared and Ivanka do keep a fairly low profile as far as Normies are concerned. But the tax returns… I was listening to a series by the BBC on (British) history’s greatest mysteries, and one of the historians talked about how one of their cases (I think the ‘princes in the tower’) have fascinated people for centuries, because it’s human nature to just want to know, unanswered questions fascinate people. Why people don’t want to know what’s in his tax returns just out of that instinct for gossip is beyond me.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Thanks. Chris Dodd and Ed Rendell’s comments about Kamala Harris show that the misogyny problem is not limited to the progressive wing of the coalition.
Kay
@Baud:
I don’t understand why bashing progressive Democrats is fine on this bog but bashing incumbent or centrist Democrats is “divisive”. I think that’s ideological- which is fine! It’s a big tent Party, it’s fine to not back the Left flank, but it’s ALL bashing Democrats.
schrodingers_cat
IANAL but didn’t the Democrats sue to get the Orange One’s tax returns?
taumaturgo
Long live corruption! Down with sexually active, consensual sex young politicians! Never mind that we look away from touchy Joe and the numerous complaints from women as to how “uncomfortable” they felt by his touch. Is good the prude squad wasn’t around in MLK youth days since most likely he would have been canceled. Imagine that.
Kay
@Baud:
I accept it with Bernie because he deliberately chose not to be a Democrat- I believe for much more cynical reasons than he says. But if they’re “Democrats” then the “team” idea should apply to all or none.
Baud
@Kay:
I don’t see this happening, so I can’t explain what you see. The only reason I may not bash centrists more often is because they are quieter in my info bubble.
Kristine
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Good news.
Baud
@taumaturgo:
Joe never did anything sexual. And fuck you for acting like an arm of the Trump campaign.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: BS is not even a Democrat. Why is he considered progressive when Neal is not? BS had a pretty conservative voting record on guns and immigration before he started running for President.
Centrist == One not anointed by the holy one in Vt.
Kay
@taumaturgo:
I feel like you hurt your cause trying to make Biden into a sexual predator. I think people didn’t buy it because it isn’t true. He’s too touchy for my taste- I think everyone should literally keep their hands to themselves, but he’s too touchy with men, women, children.
For everyone of me who hates being ordered to hug strangers, there’s five who are insisting on hugs. Biden’s closer to the norm than I am.
LeftCoastYankee
I’m pretty sure the folks of this district will figure out who they want to represent them, and probably won’t be checking in here to clear up their thinking on the subject.
schrodingers_cat
@LeftCoastYankee: I live in the adjacent district. He had a primary challenger the last time around too. I saw that debate, he acquitted himself quite well. I would be very surprised if he loses his primary.
Geminid
@Fleeting Expletive: I don’t think the audio or transcript of the Trump/Adelson phone call is out there. Politico had a good short article on it yesterday, but the sources are second hand. Sounds like trump might have pissed Adelson off, and other republicans were doing damage control.
taumaturgo
@Baud: I seem to have hit a nerve. Civility please otherwise one might confuse you for a Bernie bro.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: @Kay: Chris Dodd and Ed Rendell get criticized, by SC, in this very thread. WRT Rendell, I sometimes wish he were more prominent so I would sound like less of a crank ranting about him (he was a huge troll to Obama in the first term, he’s allied with the Pete Peterson machine, etc). The OP is a lament that Dems can’t get a better candidate against Richie Neal. How many people here donated to Marie Newman? If there had been a Balloon Juice commenter primary, I think Warren would have carried it with about 70%
Warren is probably the best example of a progressive (though I’m losing track of what that words means) who remains team player no matter what happens to her own career or proposals.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
WTF?! He was using his connections to hook up with college students. It was inappropriate, period
Baud
@taumaturgo:
Yes, fascists enablers hit a nerve with me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
also: the reporting I’ve seen about Neal is that he still thinks he can get an infrastructure deal, so he doesn’t want to piss off trump. It’s not about “corruption” AFAIK. I have never seen any indication that Neal is personally profiting from his office, but in truth I haven’t done any digging.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I wouldn’t have even heard about this issue if MM hadn’t posted about it.
patrick II
@Kay:
We need to get serious about inheritance taxes. Most of the real assholes inherited money and feel entitled. Compare Mitt to his dad George.
taumaturgo
@Kay: Upon reading my comment, one would need to have a wild imagination to extrapolate Joe into a sexual predator. Consistency is what I was pointing out.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Smarminess isn’t a good look on anybody. Plus, the fact that taumaturgo used the term “cancelled” is a tell. What next, “identity politics”? “SJWs”?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@patrick II: not that I disagree with your point about inheritance taxes, but in fairness…
The underplayed part of the 47% tape was, IMHO, when Willard fairly hissed with rage, “I inherited nothing!” when he talked about people who suggested he was an aging trust fund baby. And this is probably technically true. I think Willard was actually richer than George when the old man died. But it never occurs to Willard that being the son of a CEO, governor and cabinet secretary gave him a boost in life. The Cranbrook School, Harvard… and the small matter of what the Lady Ann called a “nest egg” when they were first married and eating tuna casserole off an ironing board. In 2012 dollars, Young MItt’s stock portfolio was worth just over $250K, and I suspect The Lady herself was not without a ‘nest egg’. Her father owned a smallish but very successful auto parts company, IIRC.
that stayed with me because, and the larger point I’m trying to make, is it really pisses off rich white guys, from MOU Willard Romney down to my cousin the actually self-made and very successful contractor, if you suggest they had any kind of leg up
Major Major Major Major
Yeah, it was absolutely predictable that the Intercept crew et al. would blindly defend their boy. Greenwald in particular has been… well, you can look it up if you really want to see.
Morse is still listed as one of Justice Dems’ candidates, also predictably. They’re not actually interested in this stuff. I’m pretty sure they aren’t interested in governing at all, really.
schrodingers_cat
Richard Neal is a not a centrist by any definition of the term. His voting record is pretty liberal.
That said his last challenger was better than this Morse guy. She only got 30% of the vote though.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Green Tea party is as interested in governance as the original Tea Party.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Major Major Major Major: I forget who said that if Joe Biden actually manages to get 70% of the Bernie agenda enacted– as short hand, let’s imagine universal health care through a public option and Medicaid expansion vs the blessed “Single Pay-yuh!”– the Bernie left will still seethe with rage because Biden can’t give them ‘aesthetic performance’ (this forgotten person’s phrase) of Bernie himself. What I would call the emotional (emo, cause I’m a mean old bastard) satisfaction of Bernie’s bellowing anger.
cain
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
There is no deal that Trump would not rescind at a moment’s notice and use grievance as the reason. The deal could be canceled simply for not going golfing with him (imagine if this guy joined Trump for golfing).
It’s not even about precedent – many politicians give up their tax returns. Only Trump hasn’t. The man has broken a string of traditions and has not suffered for it.
The only reason I can think of is that this guy has skeletons and to piss Trump off might have the right researching his background -and maybe he’s not super clean. Trump is a bully.
Good morning!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Oh, I’m sure the Justice Dems et al just think of this as ridiculous “feminazi, SJW shit”. Hell, Kyle Kulinski of Secular Talk, a prominent Justice Dem, regularly railed against “feminazis” and “SJWs” on his show
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, I know, but mistermix is regularly criticized for being “Bernie curious” or whatever.
I’m not clear what role you-all see for the Left flank of the Party. They were told to work within the Party and system and that’s what primarying people is. I don’t know how they do anything at all if they can’t do that. I also think the trope that they never run in “dogcatcher” races is bullshit. They do run progressives in local races. They had wins in local prosecutor races last week.
Kay
I do think the cancel culture thing now adopted by both the Left and the Right is utter bullshit.
It is the most whiny, privileged irrelevant to our current situation thing I have ever seen. If it’s a problem it’s fucking 493rd down the list of problems in this country and the fact that all of these prominent people have spent this much TIME on it is, IMO, an indictment of those people and their priorities.
I knew the Right would fling it right back at liberals, and sure enough – they have. Every Trumpster recites “cancel culture” now to shout down black people. Good job. Great work. Of all the fucking catastropes we’re dealing with these idiots decided on “cancel culture” as a threat. Must be nice.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay:
speaking for myself, it’s not primaries in themselves that bother, I donated to Marie Newman and I’m not the least bit sorry to see Elliott Engel put out to pasture. Quite the opposite. It’s the people who make centrists, “the Establishment” into some kind of supernaturally powerful enemy. Sanders is the loudest and most prominent offender but… (and this is some of the long paragraph I deleted from my earlier comment) : Booing HRC, sending the “Sunrise movement” to stage a sit-in in Nancy Pelosi’s office, pumping up Tara Reade’s delusions because you have an emotional investment in Bernie-ism (Chris Hayes) or because you hate Joe Biden because of Anita Hill (Rebecca Traister), dismissing the largely African-American, but also a lot of disaffected suburbanites, in South Carolina as the “corporate wing of the Democratic Party” and under the influence of lobbyists. Brian Beutler, of whom I used to be a big fan and I still like as an analyst of the right, has gone full-metal Green Lanternist on Nancy Pelosi and the Dem Congress… I could go on but I want to stick to people who are elected and/or reasonably prominent and not get into “oh, that’s a handful of excitable nineteen-year-olds on twitter”. But Bernie Sanders and his supporters have fueled the same kind of purity politics and intra-party rage and ‘not a dime’s worth of difference’ pseudo-savvy that has twice in my adult lifetime, twice in my middle flipping age, put dangerously incompetent, literally death-dealing presidents in office, which in turn has stacked the courts for a generation. We are seriously talking about the collapse of the American Experiment in no small part because Chuck Fuckign Todd put a flea in Bernie Sanders’ ear about WALL STREET SPEECHES!
Fight the real enemy, is what I personally would like the Left Flank of the party to do.
Brachiator
@Kay:
The very idea of getting any kind of “elites” kinda confuses what you want from a meritocracy.
But some human beings, maybe most of us, are weirdly inconsistent about nepotism. For example, I think one of the dumbest reasons that Trump supporters don’t care about Trump’s foul children is that they fantasize about being so rich that they can pull strings to take care of their family and friends.
Gvg
@Kay: we are all curious. Trump is using legal and also corrupt methods to prevent our getting those taxes. I have heard of multiple different sources trying to get them and if anyone got them, they haven’t been made public yet. In the meantime the shit keeps flowing and we have a pandemic. People are distracted, however if those returns are made public, many people will jump to look at them. I personally think they will come out after he’s out of office, and he dreams he won’t have to leave office.
he acts guilty. At this point I assume he is guilty of all of it. Every last theory.we have all his actions,
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
OMG!!!!
These people are shameless.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
Deciding that someone is not a good candidate for elected office because he was using his political connections to try to start sexual relationships with college students is not “cancel culture.”
Major Major Major Major
@Kay:
I think it’s great that they’re involved and working within the party. I don’t like how the noisy revolutionary vanguard (Justice Dems, Sunrise, the Ryan Grim orbit) is just plain anti-Democratic Party, when they aren’t simply grifters.
The other part of working within the party system, IMO, is supporting the party’s candidate even after you lose the primary.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
@Major Major Major Major:
Sounds about right. I personally don’t have a dog in who wins these local district fights, as long as the nominee wins the general.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@schrodingers_cat:
Yes, and Neal wasn’t Chair of Ways and Means in the 2018 cycle (ranking member, in the minority), and he hadn’t slow-walked the request for Trump’s taxes. It was a totally different election – which is such an obvious point that I shouldn’t have to make it.
patrick II
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
You may want to include Trump in the entitled inheritors who claim they never needed a leg up.
CliosFanBoy
FWIW, the “age difference” formula is divide your age by half and add seven. I’m 61, so if I were single the bottom range for me to date would be (does math) still a young 38.
sdhays
@zhena gogolia: I think you’re missing what Kay was saying. I think she’s saying that the whining on the right and the far left about “cancel culture” being a national crisis is absurd and born of the privilege of not being subject to the actual crises our country is currently facing.
It’s a made up problem for people who don’t have bigger things to worry about and for people to use to silence BLM.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Major Major Major Major:
Well, he’s also a Working Families Party candidate. I’m sure you’re not happy with them, but they’re certainly no Justice Dems. And I’ll give all these organizations a couple of days to deal with news that broke on a Friday afternoon.
If any Dem MoC deserved a primary challenge, it was goddam Richie Neal. He completely dropped the ball on Trump’s tax returns. No “centrist”, “mainstream”, “establishment” (pick your word) Democratic organization is going to support primarying a powerful committee chair – Ways & Means is the most powerful committee in Congress, after all. So it falls to progressive groups to support a challenger. Some of those groups might be annoying, but I guess I’m willing to be annoyed if it gets rid of someone like Neal, whose foot dragging was utterly inexcusable — as long as the candidate is good. In this case, he has a serious issue, unfortunately.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
I agree! “Cancel culture” as a problem in the United States is like 15,000 on my list of problems.
It feels like the worst kind of indulgence to me. Why do all this announcing as a “national problem” anyway? Just address the individual instances where people are (allegedly) being “silenced”. Why does it have to be this big grand theory?
Honestly? I feel like these people needed a problem they could all rally around so they created one and made it a “culture” which saves them from grappling with, oh, I don’t know, that fact that their fucking house is on fire.
Just defend Bari Weiss is that’s their issue. Fine. Leave the rest of us out of it. I could give a shit.
Major Major Major Major
@download my app in the app store mistermix: I have no beef with the WFP, since they have a long history of pragmatism.
schrodingers_cat
@download my app in the app store mistermix: And yet he had a primary challenge from the left in 2018. The goal of all these groups associated with BS since 2016 has been a hostile takeover of the Democratic party emulating what the Tea party did to the Republicans.
The taxes are just a pretext.
Kay
@Gvg:
It’s amusing to me because I have seen tax returns you wouldn’t believe. No one would believe them because they’re fraudulent. We have a thing we do in this county where the tax preparer’s reputation validates the return. Preparers who are on the up and up won’t prepare bullshit for signature, but there is a LOT of bullshit being filed.
If I wanted to get revenue for the United States, and I do because I worry about debt, I would hire thousands of staff auditors. Nothing flashy. Just people to read returns. Trenches. The more fancy people flout tax laws the more regular people will, and you’ll end up with Failed State. Enforce. It isn’t fair to those who pay that millions are not, including the sleazy Trumps.
Make the IRS scary again. It only works because most people tell the truth. The more Trump liars we have the weaker the system. crack down on white collar crime. Take all those bloated police budgets and buy calculators instead of tanks. Get the money they’re owed.
germy
Paula Reid has been great lately, with her questions:
The applause from the peanut gallery wealthy MAGATs drowned her out.
schrodingers_cat
I would like to see the ? ? taxes as much as anyone else but I don’t see how putting in a sexual predator affiliated with the BS wing in Congress accomplishes that.
James E Powell
@Kay:
The press/media gave Trump a pass on his tax returns. Try to imagine the NYT & cable shows if Hillary Clinton had refused to disclose anything. Flames would be coming out of the windows at the NYT building.
But, like you, I don’t know why Democrats were not united, loud, and constant in their demands to know what he is hiding.
Politics is very much a family business, from White House to the state houses and right on down to the county recorders. I feel like it’s been that way forever.
Brachiator
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Great points. I was glad to see that some progressive YouTube pundit who talked about fighting Biden because he was too centrist, also clearly talked about how important it was to defeat Trump. This guy blasted the idea that Trump and Biden were the same, or that it was acceptable for Bernie supporters to stay home and not vote.
Chyron HR
@Kay:
The problem isn’t that progressives primary Democrats, the problem is that they invariably claim any primary they lose was “rigged”.
Yutsano
@Kay: The average return estimate for the IRS is that for every dollar you spend on the IRS you get four dollars back. There are businesses that would kill for an ROI like that. Yet because one division got overwhelmed and the conservatives found a good excuse to cut the IRS they trimmed our budget every year. I think the money increase we got in the last budget got us back to the money levels we should have had in 2010. Since then we have had so many unfunded mandates we’re barely getting by. We need at least a doubling on our budget just to get some bodies in the door.
Kay
@Chyron HR:
I’m a big tent person. The Democrats I deal with locally are to the Right of me and this blog. I don’t drum them out of the Party because I believe The Party exists only as a sum of its parts. It is the people in it. That’s all it is. But I apply that same approach to the Left flank of the Party.
I DO think younger Democrats tend to be further Left but I think that’s because of their very rational analysis of their life experiences. They’re right. It is harder for them than it was for their parents. They’re right to think something or someone failed. I don’t take this personally. I think it’s true. Sometimes, frankly, I’m impressed they keep trying. I think I might give up if I were them.
patroclus
The reason we haven’t seen Trump’s tax returns is because Donald Trump lied about providing them, lied about an alleged “audit” and has fought tooth and nail in courts to protect them from public scrutiny. Blaming that on Richard Neal seems inaccurate to me. Neal requested them, issued a subpoena for them (5/19) and authorized the filing of a lawsuit to get them (7/19). That lawsuit is now pending in the D.C. Court awaiting rulings in other cases prior to any preliminary ruling. How can Neal make the courts go faster? Does anyone really think that, if he had moved a few months earlier, the courts would have disposed of the case yet? Why?
I really don’t understand this tendency to blame Democrats for something Trump has done. Why does Trump’s obvious corruption necessitate a fight between supposed “progressives” and supposed “moderates?” I don’t accept the premise of this thread or the arguments in the comments.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Does anyone live in or near this district? Were trump’s tax returns a major issue? Was Morse on the brink of victory on a platform of “Richie Neal didn’t get trump’s taxes”?
James E Powell
@Kay:
I’m not always clear who the Left Flank is.
I’ve always considered myself to be in the left flank when “left” is meant as “what do you think our policies should be?” I very much lean democratic socialist, like a lot of us who came of age reading Michael Harrington, Christopher Lasch, and John Kenneth Galbraith. This has never once kept me from volunteering & donating to Democratic candidates or from voting a straight Democratic ticket.
There are people who identify themselves as “left” who almost never support Democratic candidates, who complain about the Democratic Party non-stop, and who do not acknowledge that helping a Republican win is a bad idea. I do not see those people as our party’s left flank. I see them as an annoyance. They are not quite my enemies, but they are not getting invited over for cocktails.
fey
I don’t really understand the narrative that the progressive wing of the left is like the tea party. The tea party was the result of disproportionate congressional/senate weight being provided to very white conservative areas combined with serious astroturfing/white supremacist freakout over Obama. Most of the things they propose are well outside what the bulk of Americans want but insulation through things like the filibuster, gerrymandering and the massively outsized power of rural states in the senate allowed them to wield far more power than they deserved.
People like AOC, Cori Bush or Jamal Bowman certainly aren’t the product of astroturfing and most of their stated policy goals are actually quite popular. If anything they best represent a generational cohort that has been underrepresented and left behind economically/socially for the past two decades. Getting politicians who better represent what constituents want is how the system is supposed to work.
The only possible comparison I can gather is that both groups have criticized the center portion of the party for being out of touch and worked to move to the party farther from that center, but that matters far less than policy goals and outcomes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: Let the gods of the inter tubes send this tweet viralling about the land
bjacques
@schrodingers_cat: I think it’s more than fair to say the Justice Dems and their ilk have a bigger bro problem than “centrist” or Establishment Democrats, neither being immune of course.
In the heat of the 2018 election season, the former were complaisant about the possible repeal of the ACA as if that would clear the field for Single Payer—M4A being the new shibboleth—to easily take its place, shouted the loudest for Justice Ginsburg to retire while Obama was in office, and liked to throw around charges of “identity politics” for acknowledging that ACA repeal and another opportunity for obstruction by Moscow Mitch would have the biggest impact on women, POC, or both. It fits an old pattern, I think.
I was a toddler during the Civil Rights struggle of the 1960s and the anti Vietnam War movement, a little older for Women’s Lib, for which I had a front row seat, if only local to Houston, but my impression was and remains that the last had to be separate from the second, because the Revolution’s place for women seemed to be helpmeets for their street-fighting men. And both movements, in Houston anyway, were white as hell.
Even the sexual liberation movement seemed mainly to liberate men to shag, women to be shagged.
Revolutionary vanguardists, like serial killers, tend to be those with the most means and opportunities, and that’s mostly been middle class white guys. Justice Dems, and the most bro-ish BS supporters, by denigrating women and POC, are aren’t any more progressive than their forebears. Progressive politicians must be for everyone; otherwise, they’re just an elite-in-waiting.
James E Powell
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
I don’t want to start a fight about this here. I see it as a discussion for a much later date. But should we assume that dragging his feet on Trump’s tax returns was his decision alone? Was the Speaker okay with it? How about the donor class? I do want to know why he didn’t think it was important, but I don’t want to talk about it right now. Not for the next 90 days. I hope that doesn’t mean we can’t be friends.
lurkypants
They sued the IRS and Trump’s bank/accountants. The problem people have with Richie Neal is that he chairs a committee that doesn’t have to sue anyone to obtain Trump’s New York State taxes because New York State recently passed a law giving the committee the power to request them from the state tax authority. New York is practically begging him to take them, and he won’t ask for them. That’s the source of the frustration with him.
Yutsano
@lurkypants: The state tax authority wouldn’t have his federal returns. They could give over his state returns, which would have similar information, but the federal would show his accuracy in filing. Both would show he hasn’t paid taxes in a long time because his business liabilities are huge. He’s underwater. And probably hiding income all over the place.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@James E Powell: I said above it was because he wanted an infrastructure bill, I may have been both misremembering and overestimating him according to the American Prospect article Mix links to
I don’t know why Pelosi would block the request of trump’s tax returns, though she does follow a ‘pick your battles’ strategy both in her caucus and in larger politics. I”m not in the habit of second-guessing her– she is legendary for knowing her caucus– but I will never understand why emoluments violations weren’t included among the impeachment charges.
Kay
Here’s your cancel culture. This is what the state chilling speech looks like, not mean emails from your coworkers. They’re trying to imprison him. Like, in a prison, not in the prison of mean tweets. Where’s Andrew Sullivan on this?
patroclus
@lurkypants: Trump has also filed suit in federal court challenging the N.Y. law and its requirement for state tax returns to be disclosed. That lawsuit is also pending. Yet again, it is Trump at fault here; not Neal. Neal could make the request (although he wants the federal returns) and that request would also require a court decision, which will undoubtedly depend on the outcome of the other cases. The “frustration” you cite should be directed at Trump, not the party with whom he is in litigation. Did you similarly question the legal strategy of the Trump University victims and blame them instead of Trump himself?
lurkypants
@Yutsano: Sure. But they’d have quite a bit, and that would be enough to show that the world didn’t end when his returns were made public.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I believe as recently as a week ago, Nina Turner was the Sanders’ representative at some sort of unity conference with “Establishment” Democrats. In ’16, Sanders demanded that Cornel “Inauguration Tickets” West be put on the platform committee. A week after the Dems’ convention, West noisily endorsed Jill Stein.
patroclus
@lurkypants: No they wouldn’t. Release of the state tax returns will require resolution of Trump’s lawsuit to block enforcement of the NY law. No returns (federal or state) are going to be released until the federal courts resolve the pending cases. It is Trump, not Neal, that is fighting the release.
fey
The comments alleging that the modern progressive left has a huge bro problem is also biased by the fact that modern internet life makes actions and statements more permanent and searchable. I’m certain that many members of congress now were insufferable assholes when they were coming up, it’s simply not etched in stone the way things are now.
Also it’s actually good that we are seeing a moment in time where women and other groups who are being assaulted or harassed by candidates can speak out. If this guy ran in 1980 how likely is it that behaviors like this would have been swept under the rug and he could have gone on to a long respectable career with zero repercussions for his actions?
ns
Trolling Democratic party circles friending younger college students and flirting with / hitting on them is the disqualifying act here. Tindr/Grindr hookups between two people 18+ is MYOB and not a public concern, although colleges should be able to ban 1:1 socializing between current staff and current students to maintain a professional work environment for all.
People over 18 who have sex with semi-random people don’t get to complain after the fact that older people are hot for younger people. That’s a given, and why we have age of consent laws in the first place, but after a very quick read that doesn’t appear to be the case here. There IS a subordinate relationship in this example, so IMO that should be game over.
James E Powell
@patroclus:
And it is Republican supreme court justices and appellate court judges who are helping Trump win. They would never do that for a Democrat.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jim, Foolish Literalist
meanwhile…
Major Major Major Major
@Yutsano: didn’t one of his state returns already leak, like years ago?
Kay
The contempt these low quality LEGACY hires have for the public is really something. Law offices were essential after the covid shutdowns and I have a lot of clients. I was panicking a bit so I decided I would do what I could for people in my town with the only thing I know how to do, which is read and translate. We were inundated with questions on unemployment and PPP loans, from clients and then friends of clients and then basically random people stopping in. They weren’t getting their unemployment and they’re all in debt up to their ears with the stupid fucking TRUCK loans so they were freaking out. I spent days on it. It helped me as much as it helped them because I need to stay busy in panic mode.
The low quality Trump hires think people won’t notice they were LIED to about UI. Like the money isn’t real. Like these people aren’t real. The low quality hires sat around a conference table and came up with a big clumsy lie that will be revealed to be a lie in a matter of weeks and they don’t give a shit. That counts as “work” now- this bullshit.
Ian
@Brachiator: For example, I think one of the dumbest reasons that Trump supporters don’t care about Trump’s foul children is that they fantasize about being so rich that they can pull strings to take care of their family and friends.
I had that thought a few years back during the college admission scandal. If I was a rich celebrity (or w/e) I probably would use my influence or money to get my kids nice things too. It doesn’t justify criminal behavior but it is an understandable consideration.
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: How is it hard for Todd to say “Peter, Republicans can’t even pass a bill among their own party in the Senate. They’re clearly the recalcitrant party here.”
Fire that asshole. Twice. Into the sun.
taumaturgo
Richard Neal epitomizes the rot in the party. Corruption is alive and well with the likes of Richard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9ybCBxk5go&feature=emb_logo
fey
Even if courts and other groups would have made Neal accessing Trump’s state returns difficult that’s not an excuse to not pursue the opportunity. I don’t ascribe some magic bully pulpit power to Neal, but the fact that he didn’t see fit to even try is telling. He’s an extremely powerful committee chair in a safe district, what’s the value in kicking sand and saying “why bother?”
taumaturgo
When the likes of the corrupt Richard are given power this is the nefarious policy outcome.
This is what Americans support.
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/510482-poll-67-percent-support-providing-medicare-for-every-american
And this is what the Democratic leadership team party support.
https://www.salon.com/2020/07/28/dnc-platform-committee-votes-to-reject-medicare-for-all-despite-overwhelming-support-from-voters/
J R in WV
@taumaturgo:
SO GLAD Watergirl improved the wonderful Pie Filter first invented by cleek during the last Balloon Juice upgrade.
I have a choice as to whether to look at your stupid and hateful posts.
Sadly, I chose to look at this one, so SAD~!~ My bad!!!
taumaturgo
@J R in WV: Hiding one’s head in the sand is seldom a wise move, but be my guess.
J R in WV
@Kay:
While I really miss hugging my neighbors and friends here in our rural hollow, I support and defend your desire not to be hugged.
I like to think that for the few folks who don’t like hugs, I’m sensitive enough to just give those folks a tiny hug with little physical contact, compared to the hugs we exchange with people who like hugs.
I might need a clue, though, from folks who pretend to enjoy hugs, but really don’t.
fey
There’s an implicit expectation that if someone tries to hug you it would be rude or offensive to decline. Even more so from someone who may have social or employment power over you.
Kay
@J R in WV:
I think you’re probably fine if you’re conscious of it :)
People seem to love Biden’s approachability. I preferred Obama’s distance. I’m just one woman so I don’t speak for the tribe, but I thought Obama’s approach to and with women was just about perfect. I recall a press conference he gave when conservatives were screeching about birth control and his seriousness about the issue- he treated it like public health, which is how I want it treated. A matter of factness- not a gushy sentimentality or treating us like flowers who wilt. I think that’s respectful and should be the goal on “women’s issues”.
Kay
@Brachiator:
It doesn’t though. Strivers buy into the values. They want what wealthier people have- and I’m fine with that. I’m fine with “wealthy people”. What I want is a society that allows that group to change. It’s not supposed to be static, unto the generations. That’s what we’re seeing, I think. They’re actually dumber.
It’s why I’m fairly radical on immigration. I would let them all in. I think people have a natural right to move and I have no tribe I want to see dominate – I don’t identify as belonging to any “old country” or whatever. Mix it up. Fine with me. I’m in the “let’s move this along” cohort. Pack it up and start over. I like that sort of person.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yutsano: In California, we are required to submit federal returns with our state returns, so that could vary from state to state.
Yutsano
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I wouldn’t know. We don’t have an income tax in Washington. I don’t think that’s sustainable, and we’ll need to fix that in the future. Running on sales and business and occupation taxes isn’t smart.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yutsano: Agreed.
Miss Bianca
@bjacques:
This