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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

The revolution will be supervised.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

I really should read my own blog.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Presidential Debate Open Thread, Part Two

Presidential Debate Open Thread, Part Two

by Anne Laurie|  September 29, 20209:45 pm| 390 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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Melanie Trump just walked in wearing a mask. She removed it as she sat down.

— Tyler Pager (@tylerpager) September 30, 2020

A Cleveland Clinic doctor with masks just walked up to a number of unmasked members of the audience on Trump’s side of the room and asked them to put on masks. She told me they refused to take one and wear them. https://t.co/rNUFjLfUEf

— Tyler Pager (@tylerpager) September 30, 2020

Trump theme for the evening: Rules don’t apply to us.

(Updated) Guardian liveblog here.

Trump interrupts again and again… and Biden says:

"Will you shut up, man." and then smiles and starts laughing.

Trump has a problem here.

All he can do is filibuster and interrupt – but Biden is laughing at him. Out loud.

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@TheRealHoarse) September 30, 2020

Joe Biden is already done with Trump’s BS: ‘Everything he’s saying so far is simply a lie. Everyone knows he’s a liar … do you have any idea what this clown is doing?’ #Debates2020 pic.twitter.com/EGB8MBO6LG

— NowThis (@nowthisnews) September 30, 2020

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Previous Post: « The First 2020 Presidential Debate Live Feed and Open Thread
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Reader Interactions

390Comments

  1. 1.

    PsiFighter37

    September 29, 2020 at 9:47 pm

    I think Trump’s toast. Biden has not been as aggressive as I would have liked, but Trump has been even more godawful.

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    Trump whinging about “Obama.”

    That name does not belong in Trump’s shitwad mouth.
    Wallace points out what an excellent economy Obama built.

    Trump is lying about it. The slowest economic recovery since 1929. Who knows?

  3. 3.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 29, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    Orange one looks like a pumpkin left out on the porch after Halloween.

  4. 4.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    September 29, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    Trump is the Meth lab of democracy in this debate.

  5. 5.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 29, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    No rational person can vote for Trump after watching this.

  6. 6.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    @PsiFighter37: I would like to agree but people inexplicably think that blow hard is a smart, good, rich, tells it like it is, eloquent etc. I don’t see how anyone can stand to listen to him for more than five seconds. ?‍♀️

  7. 7.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    @PsiFighter37:   Talk about Trump not having presidential temperament.

    He does not have the temperament for high school.

  8. 8.

    Emma from FL

    September 29, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    If Biden had matched him rudeness for rudeness, the headline writers would  have both-sided it.

  9. 9.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    Sigh.

    Just, sigh.

  10. 10.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good thing Trump’s base isn’t rational.

  11. 11.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    WRT manufacturing:  Catherine Rampell just did a great story in the WaPost about what a disaster Trump has been there.

    She also said he has lied.  She used that word.  It is refreshing.

  12. 12.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    Oh, the gratuitous Hunter Biden reference.

  13. 13.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    Hunter Biden, except not named.  Just “your son.”

  14. 14.

    senyordave

    September 29, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    I officially gave up at 9:38 PM.  If I had to choose between watching the debate and re-runs of Car 54, where are you, I’m leaning toward Herman Muenster and Grandpa.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    CUT HIS FUCKING MIKE.

    DON’T JUST KEEP SAYING “MR. PRESIDENT.”

  16. 16.

    Raoul Paste

    September 29, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    The constant trump interruptions are why I can’t watch this crap

  17. 17.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    I mean I guess he held out longer than we expected before he brought up Hunter.

  18. 18.

    HinTN

    September 29, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Base ain’t rational. But you’re right…

  19. 19.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    “This clown, excuse me this President.”

    Mr Vice President, the clowns are not amused by the comparison.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    Nice, Joe.

  21. 21.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    Biden:  It’s hard to get in any word with this clown.

  22. 22.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    Jesus. This is like an episode of the Jerry Springer Show.

  23. 23.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    Trump: “Can I be honest?”

    Wallace: “No!”

  24. 24.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    If there is another debate:

    the candidates are not in the same room.  Maybe not even the same state.

    Put them in rooms elsewhere.  And CUT THE MIKE for constant interrupting.

    Now Wallace is blaming “the two of you.”

    Although he is now scolding Trump.

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    Wallace adopts the “negotiate with a toddler” stance.

  26. 26.

    Ken

    September 29, 2020 at 9:54 pm

    I take it Cole’s curse hasn’t worked yet?

  27. 27.

    Hellbastard

    September 29, 2020 at 9:54 pm

    Turned off after 45 minutes. I just can’t take any more. Donald Trump has turned politics into such a fucking shitshow. God…

  28. 28.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 29, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Why am I thinking of Adlai Stevenson?

  29. 29.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    Just a friendly reminder: all of Trumpov’s spawn are legally barred from running a charity because of the scam charity they ran.

  30. 30.

    debbie

    September 29, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    @PsiFighter37:

    He doesn’t need to be aggressive. Just stand back and give Trump the room he needs to self-destruct.

  31. 31.

    PsiFighter37

    September 29, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    The childish behavior by Trump isn’t going to fly. He is ‘in charge’ now.

  32. 32.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:56 pm

    Oh my.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 9:56 pm

    Will Sommer
    @willsommer
    ·15m
    Alex Jones is complaining on the InfoWars stream that Biden has to be juicing because Trump isn’t doing better: “Trump is not dominating him. Trump’s winning, but not as big of a win as we’d thought there.”

    Guffaw.

  34. 34.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    @Elizabelle: Yeah, this is just… it’s unwatchable. At least with Rmoney/Obama you had dialogue back and forth. Same with McCain/Obama. Here? JFC…

  35. 35.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    The Crime Bill is the best Trump has?  I guess….

  36. 36.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    Apparently somehow taught Trump the word “superpredator”.

  37. 37.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    Super predators. 1994.

  38. 38.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    Glad that Trumpov will help out black people by LAW AND ORDER! LAW AND ORDER! WE GOT THE POLICE! LAW AND ORDER!

  39. 39.

    debbie

    September 29, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    @Kay:

    Alex Jones knows juicing, for sure. //

  40. 40.

    Amir Khalid

    September 29, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    @PsiFighter37:

    I commented a few hours ago that the expectations are not the same for both sides: The worse Trump behaves, the more he lies, the less sense he makes, the more his supporters like him. Biden’s supporters actually expect him to show that he is presidential.

  41. 41.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    The tax evader lecturing about law and order.

  42. 42.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    Well, that response by Trump was only a slight bit fascist.

  43. 43.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Didn’t you hear? LAW AND ORDER! LAW AND ORDER! POLICE! LAW AND ORDER!

  44. 44.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    @Leto:   I know.  Le sigh.

  45. 45.

    Danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    Fuck this guy (the orange one).

  46. 46.

    Anne Laurie

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    Anybody else remember the night Gen. Alex Haig, serving under a temporarily incapacitated Reagan, destroyed his own reputation by screaming I’m in charge! I’m in charge! in front of the press?

    Trump’s doing that right now, except Trump supposedly *is* in charge.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    IMO, the reason Wallace is a bad moderator is he rewards breaking the rules. Wallace interrupts Biden and lets Trump run out the clock. Wallace is in control. He can punish the rulebreaker by giving Biden more time and not only is he not doing that, he’s giving the rule breaker the advantage.

    But Biden is doing fine despite the fact that all Fox people suck.

  48. 48.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    Part of the audio-visual play here by Biden is how the President’s behavior plays with women. Regardless of race, ethnicity, and/or religion. The President is presenting as every obnoxious, controlling asshole that every woman knows or dated or was/is married too. And Biden is letting him do so, then laughing at him, calling him a clown, telling him to shut up, calling him a liar. There is a strategy here. And it is being followed.

  49. 49.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    @dmsilev:   Tee hee.

  50. 50.

    MobiusKlein

    September 29, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    Gish Gallop – how can you fight it?

  51. 51.

    The Thin Black Duke

    September 29, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    @debbie: Exactly. Forget about Trump’s base, they’re idiots. Everybody else sane is going to be appalled by this infantile shitshow.

  52. 52.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    The fat bastard is starting to sweat under the lights. Hope his Tammy Fay makeup runs.

  53. 53.

    Aleta

    September 29, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: No I don’t believe his (Biden’s) intention is  specific to womwn.

  54. 54.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    I am watching because I want to support Joe Biden.

    Trump is trying to drive us away.

  55. 55.

    zhena gogolia

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If you look at the clips on Aaron Rupar without turning on the sound, Biden looks utterly calm and Trump looks like a maniac.

  56. 56.

    Danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    Tapping out before my liver.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    @dmsilev: Then they can start policing their own.

  58. 58.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    “He’s the racist.”

  59. 59.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    Chris Hayes
    @chrislhayes
    ·10m
    The whole debate is a microcosm of our national nightmare. A complete sociopath barking at everyone as everyone tries do their best to kind of work normal.

  60. 60.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    Ok, I’m going out on a limb here and guessing that Trump doesn’t actually know anything about critical race theory.

  61. 61.

    patrick II

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    People in other countries are within this.

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: It is not. No one has been hit with a chair yet.

  63. 63.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    Yikes on the sensitivity training section.

  64. 64.

    Chief Oshkosh

    September 29, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    Chris Wallace must be good for something. Maybe his dog loves him? Maybe he makes great pancakes on Sunday morning? Maybe he is boffo at crocheting doilies?

    But a moderator Chris ain’t.

  65. 65.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Trump looks like a maniac.

    It’s not just a look.

  66. 66.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 29, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    Well, Joe just called Trump a racist.

  67. 67.

    PJ

    September 29, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:  Good thing for Trump he’s running for President of America.

  68. 68.

    Ken

    September 29, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Also no DNA test yet, despite the court order.

  69. 69.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:03 pm

    @MobiusKlein: punch it in the face?

  70. 70.

    Uncle Jeffy

    September 29, 2020 at 10:03 pm

    Trump talking about “core values” is the height of irony- if core values were holding, Trumpov wouldn’t have a job.

  71. 71.

    cckids

    September 29, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    I’m just happy that Biden did fine with what I was sure would be his hardest moment – when Trump brought up his son.  He didn’t lose his temper.

    Overall, just an incredible shitshow by drumph and wallace. Christ.

    I’m still working, and had to go get a shot of rye. God this is stressful.

  72. 72.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    Great answer from Biden about how Trump and his ilk look down on people.

    Trump talking about all the divisiveness and violence under Obama administration.

    FUCK TRUMP.  He is such a racist.  All the coded cities he calls out.

    Biden:  I am in favor of law for you.

  73. 73.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    Law and order is radical Islam. Sweet weeping jeebus.

    Edit: I know you guys know this it’s just insane to think that they’re just going to recycle the same strat.

  74. 74.

    Llelldorin

    September 29, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    @MobiusKlein: Biden’s actually doing it about as well as I’ve seen—give Trump rope, then laugh at him, call him a clown, and get back you your point.

    Obama was better at it, but Biden clearly learned during his time as Obama’s VP.

  75. 75.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    @Timodc

    Donald Trump is an unhinged asshole who would be expelled from any school board meeting or PTA or local bar at this point. That is just the reality.

  76. 76.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    “He wouldn’t know a suburb unless he took a wrong turn”

  77. 77.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    Chicago.  Was that on the Bingo card?

    Baltimore.  Oakland.

    Radical left supporters.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:05 pm

    @Aleta: I’m not following.

  79. 79.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:05 pm

    Asking for a friend: has anyone seen a supertanker full of whisky?

  80. 80.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:06 pm

    Biden:  “He wouldn’t know a suburb unless he took a wrong turn …. all these dog whistles don’t work anymore.”

    “What really is a threat to the suburbs is COVID, environment …”

    Wallace asking about “reimagining policing”.

  81. 81.

    TaMara (HFG)

    September 29, 2020 at 10:06 pm

    Still working with the sound off, but every time I look up, the visuals are startling. If Trump is winning this debate, it sure don’t look like it.  Joe  looks like a man whose toddler is having a meltdown in aisle 2 and he’s calmly waiting for  him to work it out, not reacting, but looking around at everyone like, “y’all have seen this before, we just have to let him cry it out.”

  82. 82.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    @Llelldorin: I’m sure Obama is glad the he didn’t have to face this. I mean, I don’t know how HRC did it and she’s spoken about it at length. It’s just insanity.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    As I was saying:

    multiple Dems have texted, unprompted, on this point in the last few mins. Says one: "You know what suburban women love? A bully who is constantly interrupting." https://t.co/p2rSVa1Sbj

    — Gabriel Debenedetti (@gdebenedetti) September 30, 2020

  84. 84.

    Danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    @Morzer:

    Too much of a fire hazard.

  85. 85.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    Maybe Trump is making a good point about what fascists the law enforcement groups are.

    He’s bragging about all the ones that support him.

    That is not good.

  86. 86.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:08 pm

    Great, Wallace asking Biden why he hasn’t shut down the violence; “because I don’t hold elected office”

    SWEET BIPPITY FUCKING BIP!

  87. 87.

    zhena gogolia

    September 29, 2020 at 10:08 pm

    @Leto:

    Trump wasn’t this unhinged in the debates with Hillary.

  88. 88.

    SFAW

    September 29, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    @Danielx:

    Too much of a fire hazard.

    Not if you chug it.

  89. 89.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    @Elizabelle: Let’s us know who to target to defund. E-z.

  90. 90.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    “He doesn’t want to do things down.”

  91. 91.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    @stuartpstevens

    21% of Americans think this country is going in the right direction. Trump says it’s going in the right direction. He’s losing.

  92. 92.

    Mary G

    September 29, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    I had him blocked, but I couldn’t resist:

    I’ve never seen Biden seem so old or so weak. He can’t land a strong blow. He’s being successfully heckled. I want to look away.— Andrew Sullivan (@sullydish) September 30, 2020

  93. 93.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    amy walter
    @amyewalter
    ·38m
    The reason Trump is losing women, independent voters, suburban voters is that they are exhausted by the chaos, the constant attacks and drama. He is leaning into all of that in this debate.

  94. 94.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Yep.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    Haha. He won’t condemn white supremacists.

  96. 96.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    Wow. Trump really can’t bring himself to condemn the Proud Boys etc.

  97. 97.

    L85NJGT

    September 29, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    Trump’s all puffy, sweaty, and his makeup is running off.

  98. 98.

    Chief Oshkosh

    September 29, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    I’m still at work and only seeing bits and pieces. Has Joe pulled out his wallet yet and asked Trump if he needs a loan?

  99. 99.

    Amir Khalid

    September 29, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    @MobiusKlein:

    Right now he’s just bullying Wallace, and trying to do the same to Biden. Every time the fucker interrupts, cut off his mic. Every time he lies, cut off his mic.

  100. 100.

    Danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    @SFAW:

    Chugging high grade whiskey? Barbarian.

  101. 101.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    Yeah I’ll condemn the militias and white supremacists! I’ll tell them stand by. (Slightly paraphrased). That’s now how that works.

  102. 102.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    @Mary G: “Always Wrong” Andrew.

  103. 103.

    khead

    September 29, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    Lmao. Trump was like a deer in headlights when asked to condemn white supremacists.

  104. 104.

    NickM

    September 29, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    The Adderal should be wearing off about now.

  105. 105.

    banditqueen

    September 29, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    The Beast is spewing nonstop–no one will remember* what he spewed, but Joe’s one-liners are awesome and those will be remembered.

    *our failed media experiment will determine that “they both talked over each other”, “sharp personal attacks”, etc, but they will also have ‘report’ on at least some of the one-liners.

  106. 106.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    The belief that Trump has a strategy will never die:

    Nate Silver
    @NateSilver538
    ·6m
    I’m not sure why trying to fight the debate to a messy, unwatchable draw is supposed to be a good strategy for Trump when he’s 7 points behind in the polls.

    There’s no strategy. This is all Trump knows how to do.

  107. 107.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    @Morzer: It’s on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

  108. 108.

    Ken

    September 29, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I see Ezra Klein is still making the mistake of using “strategy” in anything having to do with Trump.

    Mind you, I’m sure his staff tried to create a strategy and impress it on Trump with flashcards and sessions lasting as long as thirty minutes, but they must have known in advance it wouldn’t take.

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    @Kay:   Beyond true.

    And:  Trump would not disavow white supremacists.  Given the opportunity and would not do so.  Turned it around to radical leftists.

    Biden brought up the FBI director, who I guess Trump will again consider firing.

    Impeachment hoax.  Hillary Clinton.

    “There has never been an administration that has done what I have done.” — his only true point tonight, over and over.

  110. 110.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    What is he talking about? “You saw what happened today with Hillary Clinton, it was a whole big con job.” What did I miss in today’s news?

  111. 111.

    Keith P.

    September 29, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    Did Trump really just say “Proud Boys…stand by”?

  112. 112.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    We did and I’ll tell you something and nobody and then that’s a record the likes of very few people and he left me judges and you just don’t like and if I were his party…

    JFC get through a fucking sentence just one!

  113. 113.

    SFAW

    September 29, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    @Danielx:

    Chugging high grade whiskey? Barbarian.

    Morzer only said “whisky.” “High-grade” was not in the equation.

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    @khead:   You will notice that he did not really do so.

    He did say “stand down” and then started deflecting.

  115. 115.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    @Kay: It is all he has.

  116. 116.

    Amir Khalid

    September 29, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    Rick Santorum’s halftime punditry at CNN is shamelessly biased. He keeps talking about the “socialists” that Biden is supposedly pandering to.

  117. 117.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

     

    Time to die.

  118. 118.

    mad citizen

    September 29, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    Have only read the first 30 pages or so of the Mary Trump book, but she points out how trump has brought out the worst in our country.  So right.  Pointed out many times by juicers here as well.

  119. 119.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    “You’re Putin’s puppet, haven’t spoken to him about the bounties on the troops heads.”

    ”Hunter Biden…”

  120. 120.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    Biden:  Country is “Weaker, sicker, more divided, more violent.  Putin’s puppet.”

    Wallace scolding Trump about the interruptions.  Your campaign agreed, why won’t you comply?

  121. 121.

    C Stars

    September 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    It seems the Twitter commentariat believes that Trump is winning this thing. I can’t really stand to watch more than a few seconds at a time, but when I do watch, Trump looks red-faced and whacked out (per usual). My husband, who is a gruff dude from Kentucky who doesn’t follow politics like I do, has been chuckling through the whole thing and just said “Biden’s doing a great job of not being Trump, and Trump’s doing a great job of looking like an asshole.” So I’m gonna vibe with that.

  122. 122.

    divF

    September 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I can’t bear to watch this directly, but your comment makes me think of Ian Holm’s lines from “The Madness of King George” – “…if he swears and indulges in meaningless discourse, He will be restrained.”

  123. 123.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Some nonsense about them being to blame for Brad P or something.

  124. 124.

    Ken

    September 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    @L85NJGT: Trump’s all puffy, sweaty, and his makeup is running off.

    Media: “Trump was positively Nixonian tonight.”

  125. 125.

    Whereaway

    September 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    @Danielx: Just tapped out, my liver went

  126. 126.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    @C Stars:

    Twitter is really into toxic machismo.

  127. 127.

    Geminid

    September 29, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    Trump does a good imitation of Fred C. Boggs, from Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

  128. 128.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    @Ken: I’m not sure Ezra Klein actually knows what strategy means.

  129. 129.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    Trump screaming about Hunter Biden is so ridiculous given his little grifters.

  130. 130.

    Llelldorin

    September 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    “He never keeps his word” was a fabulous rejoinder.

  131. 131.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    Is this the first climate change question in the Presidential debates, ever?

  132. 132.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    @Leto: I heard that as Putin’s puppy. Also works. ?

  133. 133.

    Humanities Prof

    September 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: A couple of hours ago, the Director of National Intelligence leaked a letter from 2016 that was submitted to the Senate Intelligence Committee (which promptly disregarded it because it was obviously bogus).  The letter suggested that Hillary Clinton was rumored to be in talks with various Russians about manufacturing a scandal about Trumpov.

    The letter itself contains a phrase basically saying “we have no idea whether or not any of this is true or a fabrication.”

    And if Trump were still running against Clinton, that might mean something (not because she was actually doing any such thing, but because large segments of the public and media were conditioned to believe that she might).

  134. 134.

    L85NJGT

    September 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    Wallace lecturing Trump now.

  135. 135.

    khead

    September 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @Baud:

    Yeah, this.  The toxic macho assholes on Twitter are already in the bag for Trump.  Women have to be cringing at this shit.

  136. 136.

    Soprano2

    September 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    Jesus Christ, in the next debate they have to be able to cut Trump’s mic. It’s obvious his ‘’strategy” is to constantly interrupt. He thinks that makes him look dominant. That’s it, that’s his whole strategy.

  137. 137.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    I do like the fact that Biden addressed his son’s drug problem because it’s something very relatable to a lot of American families. Especially in the Rust Belt.

  138. 138.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    Wallace keeps trying to find his balls, and they’re just nowhere to be seen. Poor Chris.

  139. 139.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Trump more and more speaks in Right wing internet code. I don’t think most people will understand it.

    Also, it’s kind of weird to talk about Clinton. When Obama debated Romney he didn’t talk about McCain because that’s..baffling.

  140. 140.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    I have watched this entire debate with Chris Wallace and the Pumpkin on mute but I still have to hear him interrupt Joe Biden. What an obnoxious man.

  141. 141.

    geg6

    September 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @Geminid:

    Ha!  I had the same thought!

  142. 142.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @Avalune: Your ears are typically better than mine, so I’ll go with that. He does routinely roll over and piss himself when Putin’s around.

  143. 143.

    Princess

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    “The President is presenting as every obnoxious, controlling asshole that every woman knows or dated or was/is married to.”

    Yes, this. TBH I just listened to one clip and I started to think I might have an anxiety attack.

    The Republican convention was not going to appeal to any of us, but it was designed to be a bridge to welcome any woman who wanted to back over to vote for Trump. Trump is burning that bridge down tonight.

  144. 144.

    Suzanne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    I haven’t been drinking tonight. It’s for the best.

  145. 145.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    WTF is a forest city? Oh, never mind, it’s a “sir” anecdote and therefore completely made up.

  146. 146.

    Anya

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @Elizabelle: That’s a great retort. It’s also a good sound bite that’ll become viral.

    Biden is doing the only thing he can, mock the asshole.

  147. 147.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: can’t find what you never had.

  148. 148.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @RadioFreeTom

    I think Biden should have agreed to the drug testing, because whatever Trump is on it’s not working for him. #Debates2020

  149. 149.

    Immanentize

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Vizzini?

  150. 150.

    C Stars

    September 29, 2020 at 10:19 pm

    @Baud: Tonight has really brought that home to me. You can kind of see how the shouting-match outrage culture is a good fit for DT.

  151. 151.

    piratedan

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    at the end of this, I hope that Biden looks Chris Wallace straight in the eye and thanks him for moderating this debate, and gives a classy thumbs up to Fox News for hosting this debate and setting it up so they could take their case to the American people.

    and then roll his eyes….

  152. 152.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    @Suzanne: Your liver thanks you for your sacrifice.

  153. 153.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    Wallace makes it pretty clear that Trump is a liar, with his pointed follow up questions.

  154. 154.

    Avalune

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    Californians get out there and “clean” your forest.

  155. 155.

    cain

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    In defense of Wallace, nobody is going to be able to shut up Trump. Even if he shuts off the mic, it won’t matter, he will not back down and he will keep going. In fact, it will puff him up – he’s into dominance. This is what he’s doing. He’s trying to own the debate by out talking everyone.

  156. 156.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    Tim Miller
    @Timodc
    ·2m
    For all the conservative media types trying to spin this as a draw. Just imagine what they would say if Barack Obama had spent half the 2012 debate attacking Craig Romney like an insane person.
    It’s a desperate ploy by someone with no positive story to tell about his admin.

    If the gross Trump hacks are only trying to spin this as a “draw” they think it was bad.

  157. 157.

    Quinerly

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    @Elizabelle: I heard “Putin’s puppy.”

    JoJo confirms he heard the same thing. ?

  158. 158.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    Trump is the absolute worst that humanity has to offer.

  159. 159.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    What the everliving fuck is Trump trying to say about countries that are forest cities?  I thought this debate was supposed to be in English.

  160. 160.

    Ken

    September 29, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    @dmsilev: WTF is a forest city?

    On Endor, wasn’t it?

  161. 161.

    p.a.

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    From what I’m reading here, the only way I’ll investigate further is when the video of 5 year olds reading tRump’s transcript comes out.

  162. 162.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    “Vice President Biden, please respond to that word salad.”

  163. 163.

    M31

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @dmsilev: ‘Sir, Sir, they said, we are from the Forest City of Endor and we need your help with the raking!”

  164. 164.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @Soprano2:

    It’s obvious his ‘’strategy” is to constantly interrupt. He thinks that makes him look dominant.

    It makes him look rude, and bullying, and insolent. I guess there are people who find that attractive, but thankfully they are not part of my social circle.

  165. 165.

    TaMara (HFG)

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @C Stars: Remember, twitter is not real life. It’s just a great shortcut for the lazy media. “Well, this and that were trending on twitter”

    Meanwhile, back in MI people are standing in food lines and don’t give a fuck about twitter.

    (I give myself this speech several times a day when I insist on doomscrolling)

  166. 166.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    Biden actually has had better zingers. But Trump has won the bully prize tonight.

  167. 167.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: DNI Ratcliffe declassified a CIA document that indicates that Russian Intelligence told them in 2016 that Hillary Clinton had created a misinformation campaign that Russia had hacked her emails and was conspiring with the Trump campaign. The Senate and House Intelligence Committees had already assessed that the Russian intelligence assessment that they gave to the CIA was not credible and was misinformation and agitprop. The CIA document also indicates they cannot verify what Russia told them. The President, Jr, Fox News, etc all jumped all over it as “OMG HRC created the Russia hoax!”.

    Here’s the write up that debunks everything:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/29/john-ratcliffe-hillary-clinton-russia-423022

    Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe on Tuesday declassified a Russian intelligence assessment that was previously rejected by Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Intelligence Committee as having no factual basis, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

    The assessment claims that Hillary Clinton, then a Democratic candidate for president, personally approved an effort “to stir up a scandal against U.S. Presidential candidate Donald Trump by tying him to Putin and the Russians’ hacking of the Democratic National Committee.” But in his letter to Graham, Ratcliffe noted that the U.S. intelligence community “does not know the accuracy of this allegation or the extent to which the Russian intelligence analysis may reflect exaggeration or fabrication.”

    The Senate Intelligence Committee issued five reports on Russia’s sweeping effort to meddle in the 2016 election to boost Trump, ranging across thousands of pages. The panel was made aware of that allegation early on in its investigation, and quickly dismissed it, the sources said.

    More at the link.

  168. 168.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @Avalune: Maybe Californians need to inject their forests with bleach?

  169. 169.

    SFAW

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Director of National Disinformation Ratcliffe released an unvetted, unreviewed set of Russian disinformation which had Hillary as the REAL CULPRIT in 2016. Of course, he weaseled by doing the equivalent of “see page 437 for our correction” thing.

    So glad Moscow Mitch got him confirmed.

    ETA: Shakes fist ineffectually at Adam.

  170. 170.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    Trump actually did kind of answer the climate change question.  He believes the economy is more important.

  171. 171.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @Ken: Fortunately, when the wreckage of the Death Star crashed down, the blast obliterated the Ewoks.

  172. 172.

    Emma from FL

    September 29, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    I just realized that the biggest problem is that I hang out with politigeeks. Its like being trapped in a brothel bar (please don’t ask!) with a bunch of genius-level baseball statisticians. And while I wouldn’t want to change any of you cantankerous bastids for the world, I would like to remind you that Twitter and the real world have an infinitesimal overlap. As a suburban (well, small town technically but really a suburb of Miami) woman I can tell you that Trump did himself no favors tonight. Regular folk, i.e. not the Trumpist herd, saw a guy basically coming unglued.

  173. 173.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    “Chris, this is the man who thinks windmills cause air cancer. You’re going to think he has any credible way to address climate change? C’mon, man!”

  174. 174.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    September 29, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Trump looks and sounds like the drunk guy at the end of the bar.

  175. 175.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    @Ken: If Trump announces a plan to put the first man on Endor, I will consider that my life is complete.

  176. 176.

    C Stars

    September 29, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    @TaMara (HFG): Yes. I have a serious Twitter problem and need to stop going there. It’s just depressing.

  177. 177.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    @C Stars: No more than 10% of Americans are on Twitter. So I wouldn’t sweat it.

  178. 178.

    C Stars

    September 29, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    @Leto: Wait, did Biden really say that? Because that’s a great line.

  179. 179.

    TriassicSands

    September 29, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    In the second debate, they need to put Trump in a soundproof booth*. When it isn’t his turn to speak they need to turn his microphone off. Biden is simply not articulate enough or mentally quick enough to counter Trump in an optimal way, but he has done a good job of remaining calm in the face of tremendous provocation. I watch Biden and think how much more effective either Warren or Harris** would have been, but Joe’s decency, which doesn’t appeal to tens of millions of Trump Americans, is coming through.

    The downside of debates for Biden, and this is slight when honestly compared to Trump, is that he isn’t rhetorically agile . For the most part, Biden has respected the time-to-speak rule, but he should have been nearly perfect. That increases the contrast between the two men. Wallace did call out Trump for being the worse offender and Trump has been so bad it would take a saint to not respond at all. Secretly, I want Wallace to “taze” Trump…hmm, I guess it’s not a secret, is it?

    Early on, when Wallace was struggling to control Trump, should have said, “Mr. President, with all due respect, SHUT UP.” The man is appalling. But it is that quality that seems to appeal to so many Americans.

    *Alternatively, simply give the moderator a switch to turn off Trump’s microphone. But that would probably be inadequate, since Trump would just shout. He is incapable of behaving like an adult or even a teenager with a modicum of self control. Or, a third option, gag Trump and pull the gag when it is his turn.

    ** Of course, both Warren and Harris, being women, would be roundly criticized for being shrill. Trump poses problems, because of his uncontrolled behavior, that have never before been been seen in presidential debates.

  180. 180.

    zhena gogolia

    September 29, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    @Emma from FL:

    Thank you, I hope you’re right.

  181. 181.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 29, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    @Emma from FL:

    Its like being trapped in a brothel bar (please don’t ask!)

    Come on, man!

    to your larger point, I’ll repeat myself quoting somebody else:

    Josh Barro @jbarro · 44m
    By the way, I would note that Biden is handling this just fine, and that your twitter feed is composed entirely of people who did not understand Biden’s appeal in the primary, plus me.

  182. 182.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    @dmsilev: they were on the opposite side of the moon. More Christmas specials incoming.

  183. 183.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    Trump is accusing Biden of having a 100 trillion plan to rip out cows or something.

  184. 184.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @Quinerly:  LOL.

    Unlike Trump, I believe Putin does have a dog or two.

  185. 185.

    Anya

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @Mary G: I blocked that fucking racist. I regret that his blog was one of my primary sources of information at the start of  my political awareness. Well, at least it lead me to BJ.

  186. 186.

    Mai Naem mobile

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    Donnie is such a fucking asshole. Jeezus.

  187. 187.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @C Stars: No, Biden is a better man than I. It would’ve been a spectacular line though.

  188. 188.

    Suzanne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @Leto: If ever there was a night that merited a cocktail, it’s tonight.

    Now if I can just resist online retail therapy.

  189. 189.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @Ken: Endor was a moon. A whole forest moon!

  190. 190.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @Emma from FL: Why do I never get trapped in a brothel bar with cool people like Emma?

  191. 191.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

     

    Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe released Russian disinformation hours before the presidential debate Tuesday, declassifying the information without vetting or disavowing it.

    Per Politico, the information had previously been rejected by both Democratic and Republican members of the Senate Intelligence Committee because it lacked any factual basis.

    The information was revealed in a Tuesday letter to Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-SC).

    “In late July 2016, U.S. intelligence agencies obtained insight into Russian intelligence analysis alleging that U.S. Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton had approved a campaign plan to stir up a scandal against U.S. Presidential candidate Donald Trump by tying him to Putin and the Russians’ hacking of the Democratic National Committee,” Ratcliffe said in the letter.

    “The IC does not know the accuracy of this allegation or the extent to which the Russian intelligence analysis may reflect exaggeration or fabrication,” he added.

     

    h/t https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ratcliffe-russia-disinformation-clinton-debate

  192. 192.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    Or, a third option, gag Trump and pull the gag when it is his turn.

    Can we “forget” to pull off the gag?

  193. 193.

    PsiFighter37

    September 29, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    I think I am more pissed at my wife for making me turn  this on, and having to drink to keep my sanity as a result.

    FML

  194. 194.

    L85NJGT

    September 29, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @Ken:

    SPACE FORCE!

  195. 195.

    Emma from FL

    September 29, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was New Orleans, man. Enough said.

  196. 196.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @TriassicSands:   That’s what I think too.  Soundproof booth.  Like quiz shows.

    The $750 Question.

  197. 197.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @Humanities Prof:

    Thanks very much. Hadn’t seen any of that.

  198. 198.

    zhena gogolia

    September 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    He thinks telling the Proud Boys to "stand down and stand by" is condemning white supremacists?Donald Trump is the first person I've ever seen rape a debate. Fuck this lying piece of shit and whatever Hills Have Eyes garbage that support him#Debates2020 #debate— J-L Cauvin (@JLCauvin) September 30, 2020

  199. 199.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    Biden:  “I can’t remember which of his rantings ….”

  200. 200.

    Urza

    September 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: One of the toadies released unvetted Russion misinformation about Hillary stirring up conspiracy theories about how he collaborates with Russia.

  201. 201.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    3 mins for election integrity. Great.

  202. 202.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    The end is near!

  203. 203.

    BruceFromOhio

    September 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    @Suzanne:

    Now if I can just resist online retail therapy.

    I hear you! I’ve already blown many, many shekels on ActBlue and DougJ’s thermometers.

  204. 204.

    Emma from FL

    September 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    @Morzer: ‘Cause you’re not a librarian at an ALA conference in New Orleans? And trapped is… a moral figleaf. I was having a great time.

  205. 205.

    noncarborundum

    September 29, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @senyordave:

    Ooh! Ooh!

  206. 206.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @dmsilev: Not near enough, alas.

  207. 207.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    September 29, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @Leto:

    Biden should have used that line to provide further evidence of Trump’s unprecedented scientific illiteracy.

  208. 208.

    Immanentize

    September 29, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @Morzer: asked and answered.

  209. 209.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    @Princess: I close very quickly on what other people tell me during conversations. So I’m attuned to this because I’ve had to train myself not to do it/not do it as much as I’m naturally inclined to do so I don’t come off as a complete asshole that just talks over everyone.

  210. 210.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    @Emma from FL: I said trapped in the sense of being trapped by having bought five tickets.

  211. 211.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    @Suzanne: listen, just because you spared your liver doesn’t mean you have to spare your wallet. :P

  212. 212.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    “If you’re able to vote early, vote early. If you’re able to vote often, oh wait never mind.”

  213. 213.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    This is nice by Biden.

  214. 214.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    Joe is good on voting.

  215. 215.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    @Immanentize: Worse.

  216. 216.

    JaySinWA

    September 29, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    What was that kid’s show with the slime buckets. Much more satisfying than mic mutes.

  217. 217.

    Bill Arnold

    September 29, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    In the second debate, they need to put Trump in a soundproof booth*. When it isn’t his turn to speak they need to turn his microphone off.

    If there is another debate, the moderator must have a kill switch for each microphone.

  218. 218.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: It was a good couple of minutes.

  219. 219.

    Sab

    September 29, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    @Elizabelle: Putin manages to train his labrador retrievers to scare people ( i.e. Angela Merkel).

  220. 220.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 29, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    Trump is coming off as a complete kook.

  221. 221.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    I just hope that Biden growls “Shut the fuck up, Donny!” at the next debate.

  222. 222.

    mali muso

    September 29, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    Meanwhile in a bid to maintain sanity, I am back to gazing at the ActBlue dial spin ever faster.  Out of curiosity, I put on a timer. It’s averaging about $100k per minute.  Should be interesting to see the next fundraising numbers.

  223. 223.

    smike

    September 29, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No rational person can vote for Trump…

    Ah, I think I see the problem…

  224. 224.

    trnc

    September 29, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @Elizabelle: Trump actually did kind of answer the climate change question. He believes the economy is more important.

    Repubs always claim that environmental protections are anti-business and they’re always wrong, but unfortunately some people still lap up that BS.

  225. 225.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    Biden:  Is [the country] going to change or is it going to be four more years of these lies?

    Trump now.  Talking about Crooked Hillary Clinton and a coup.

  226. 226.

    Quinerly

    September 29, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @Elizabelle: check out JoJo’s debate watching position on FB (he has been celebrating his 11 months birthday all day)

  227. 227.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @Ken: Lothlorien.

  228. 228.

    Suzanne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @JaySinWA: DOUBLE DARE!

    “I’ll take the physical challenge!”

  229. 229.

    trnc

    September 29, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Trump is coming off as a complete kook.

    So, on-brand, then.

  230. 230.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    @Kay:

    He’s clearly not speaking to the likes of us. And I’m not trained enough to put up my hand and say “Oh, stewardess, I speak Trumpov.”

  231. 231.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    @Morzer: Democratic National Convention Open Thread: Day Four

  232. 232.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    Biden did miss an opportunity to remind that we might not have an immediate result Election Night.

    Trump just went there.  We are going to know November 3rd.

    Talking about a fraud and a shame.  In states run by Democrats.

  233. 233.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    September 29, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    Tonight, Trump redefined batshit crazy and he needs to be sedated.

  234. 234.

    MomSense

    September 29, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    His face is all twisted and sweaty.  He looks unhinged

  235. 235.

    Suzanne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I can’t imagine anyone watching this and finding him anything other than fucking batshit.

  236. 236.

    MomSense

    September 29, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Ha!

  237. 237.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @SarahLongwell25

    Biden may not as sharp as he’s ever been. But Trump is a barking lunatic. What American wants four more years of this babbling maniac?

  238. 238.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @SFAW: Better than shaking Adam ineffectually at fist.

  239. 239.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca: I mean, it’s like everything else here. We already know what we know, so it’s no point. Would’ve been a great sound bite though.

  240. 240.

    Sab

    September 29, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @Leto: I actually have a facemask that says ” this mask also prevents windmill cancer”. I think it’s from Raygun.

  241. 241.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    “Solicited ballot” is a new term he learned. So dumb.

  242. 242.

    danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 10:34 pm

    I am SUCH a masochist. And Trump is SUCH a fucking douche rocket.

  243. 243.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:34 pm

    Trump wants people to go in and vote.  Like they used to.

    All this crap about “solicited ballots.”

    Now saying that ballots are being dumped in rivers.

  244. 244.

    PPCLI

    September 29, 2020 at 10:34 pm

    These last 10 minutes of Trump have been the Captain Queeg on the witness stand part of the debate.

  245. 245.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Morzer: And now I want a steak!

  246. 246.

    Luciamia

    September 29, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @trnc: Rich people can always move to higher ground.

  247. 247.

    JaySinWA

    September 29, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Suzanne: Obviously you have not seen the light.

  248. 248.

    Percysowner

    September 29, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Anya: Sully was one of my first political blogs. I’m not ashamed because I found him when he was one of the few Republicans/Conservatives that actually condemned Bush’s regime of torture, so he came off as principled. The more I read him, the more I realized that it was the ONLY thing he care about that wasn’t directly related to well, Andrew Sullivan. His blog led me here and I am grateful to him for that. Nonetheless, he is a bigot and an all around awful person, who (I think) still disapproves of torture, which makes him better than a LOT of Republicans, both then and now.

    Honestly, when I first started reading Sully and BJ I would have thought that eventually I would leave BJ because John was on his tear about Cindy Shaheen. I saw her as a mother who was driven by grief and gave her a lot of slack and John was less tolerant. But John was willing to look at the world and change his views and here I am years later, one of the jackals.

  249. 249.

    Quinerly

    September 29, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca: in the South we say, “crazy as a shit house rat.”

  250. 250.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: LOL! <3 it.

    @Sab: haha, nice :)

  251. 251.

    zhena gogolia

    September 29, 2020 at 10:36 pm

    @PPCLI:

    Did he have the brass balls?

  252. 252.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:36 pm

    For some reason, the MASH theme song has been running through my head for the last half hour or so.

  253. 253.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:36 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’m not sure just when, or why, he determined that a perpetual glower was an appealing look, but he sure as fuck guessed wrong.

  254. 254.

    Anya

    September 29, 2020 at 10:36 pm

    @Baud: Twitter is all about “owing” “crushing it” or “destroying” someone. Subtlety doesn’t work well with Twitter. They like outright brutality. In that they’re like Trump voters. They like bullying or responding in kind. So, anything that twitter likes, means that regular voters will hate it. If Twitter thinks Trump won regular people will hate him. The problem is blue check journalists are influenced by twitter.

  255. 255.

    danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 10:36 pm

    @SFAW:

    Well, see, that’s where part of the fire hazard comes in, you have to burn off the fusel oils. With better grade stuff you don’t have that problem.

    Seriously, going to have to fall back on beer for next debate. Old Rasputin by preference.

  256. 256.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    Motherfucker now talking about Philly and how his fucks weren’t allowed in. Good. FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE!

  257. 257.

    Ken

    September 29, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    @PPCLI: It doesn’t have the undertone of pity for Queeg.  And I can’t imagine anyone wanting to give the equivalent of José Ferrer’s final speech, turning it all around.

  258. 258.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: If Endor had better personal grooming it wouldn’t be a problem. Perhaps they should get a brazilian?

  259. 259.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    And Wallace is the best Fox News has to offer.

  260. 260.

    trnc

    September 29, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    Say it, Joe – “DT is trying to urge his supporters to disrupt the election sites.”

  261. 261.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    Chris Wallace notes it could be days or weeks until Election count is done.  That at least 8 states don’t even allow opening the ballots earlier to count.

    Trump:  “Bad things happen in Philadelphia.”

    Trump accusing others of cheating, and whinging over and over about the ballots found in a wastebasket.

    Chris Wallace sounds rattled.

  262. 262.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    September 29, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    “Bad things happen if Philadelphia”.

    Like the Constitution?

  263. 263.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:38 pm

    @Morzer: you wish you were shot and being helicopter medivac’d out from this shitshow?

  264. 264.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    September 29, 2020 at 10:38 pm

    Once I left the TV, I took a Xanax to calm down.

    Now I think I’ll watch something more edifying, like porn or some cheesy clips of pratfalls.

  265. 265.

    Omnes Omnibus

    September 29, 2020 at 10:38 pm

    “He has no idea what he is talking about.”  A statement for the ages.

  266. 266.

    L85NJGT

    September 29, 2020 at 10:38 pm

    @MomSense:

    That man never drank a Duff in his life.

  267. 267.

    mad citizen

    September 29, 2020 at 10:38 pm

    We knew all this about trump in 2016.  Now he is just older, oranger, and 4 more years into his dementia journey.  Christ what an asshole.

  268. 268.

    JPL

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    Wallace was awful. .

  269. 269.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    Well, that was quite something.

    One down, three to go.

  270. 270.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    Oh thank fuck, it’s over.

  271. 271.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @Percysowner:

    Watching Sullivan obsess self-pityingly over his own unrecognized racism in the name of reason and science is a repulsive spectacle.

  272. 272.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @C Stars: Not the people I follow. Twitter can be a great resource but one has to pick and choose who one follows and block and mute with impunity.

  273. 273.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    Wallace actually said “We’re going to leave it there.”

    I can’t even.

  274. 274.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: How could you tell?

  275. 275.

    Immanentize

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @Leto: I think he’s suggesting “something something brings on many changes….”

  276. 276.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    That was too awful to even have fun with.

  277. 277.

    dmsilev

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: And Rocky movies.

  278. 278.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    I don’t ever want to see another Trump debate.

    Shit show.  CUT HIS MIKE.

  279. 279.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    Jill gives Joe a hug, Melania beep-boop robot smile.

  280. 280.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    September 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    @Leto:

    I know Trump can’t be held accountable for all the bullshit he spews, but hopefully he loses because four more years of this asshole would be a fucking nightmare.

  281. 281.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    @mali muso: Someone please list my student loans as up for reelection.

  282. 282.

    Quinerly

    September 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    OMG. 2 more of these. We have a week to recover and let our livers rest.

  283. 283.

    cain

    September 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    @Elizabelle: Chris Wallace sounds rattled.

    RadioFreeTom thought the same thing.

  284. 284.

    danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Pretty much like most days, from what I’ve observed.

  285. 285.

    JPL

    September 29, 2020 at 10:40 pm

    The sweetest part was Jill hugging her husband and Melania like okay here’s my hand.

  286. 286.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    @Leto: If the choice was between dancing naked and blind drunk in a minefield and watching another minute of Donald Trump “debating”… well, sometimes choices are surprisingly easy to make.

  287. 287.

    Mary G

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    RIP Helen  Reddy.

  288. 288.

    Redshift

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    @Morzer: He made up the thing about forest cities a couple of weeks ago. He insisted that in Europe they have forest cities, by which he seemed to mean cities in the middle of forests, and they don’t have any problems with fires, so obviously California’s doing something wrong and it’s their fault, and not any of that climate stuff.

    The reality is that Europe has no such thing, and they’ve had plenty of problems with wildfires in recent years, but reality has no place in “the world is what I say it is.”

  289. 289.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    Man, Brian Williams reporting how Trumpov told the Proud Fuckknuckles to stand down and standby. Getting fact checked by Williams… oof.

  290. 290.

    NoraLenderbee

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    Judy Woodruff clutches her pearls.

  291. 291.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    @JPL:

    Haha.  I clicked off so I wouldn’t have to hear the pundits.

  292. 292.

    sdhays

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    I hope Biden is ready during one of these debates to turn to the moderator and just say, “<Moderator>, I have no idea what this man was just attempting to talk about. Do you?”

  293. 293.

    Immanentize

    September 29, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    @Quinerly: no rest for the livery! ???

  294. 294.

    trnc

    September 29, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    Tapper on CNN calling out DT for his BS. Pretty good.

    HOLY CRAP – Dana Bash – “That was a shit show.” Every once in a while, I can still be surprised.

  295. 295.

    Keith P.

    September 29, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    Wolf Blitzer says he doesn’t expect there to be another presidential debate after tonight.

    Dana Bash says “That was a shitshow.”

  296. 296.

    Immanentize

    September 29, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    @Mary G: sad.  I still hear the roar.

  297. 297.

    Kent

    September 29, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    That was a hot mess, inside a dumpster fire, inside a train wreck.

    -Jake Tapper

  298. 298.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    @sdhays:

    He pretty much did that tonight.

  299. 299.

    WaterGirl

    September 29, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: There are some pretty pictures, on thread over. :-)

  300. 300.

    Llelldorin

    September 29, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    Terms like “won” or “lost” don’t even apply to that shitshow. Biden survived. That’s about the best that could possibly happen.

  301. 301.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    Haha, Maddow saying how she spent all this time preparing for this and it was basically worthless. Hahaha

  302. 302.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    @Keith P.: Promise?

  303. 303.

    H.E.Wolf

    September 29, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Rebecca Solnit wrote a brilliant essay about that.

    https://inquilines.com/2014/02/28/box-hedging-clear-cutting/

  304. 304.

    MisterForkbeard

    September 29, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    @Keith P.: Hopefully everyone lays this right at Trump’s feet rather than pretending any of the shitshow came from Biden.

  305. 305.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    September 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    Jake Tapper is furious, said it was the worst debate he’d ever seen and said Trump deserved most of the blame.  Dana Bash called the debate a shitshow and wasn’t bleeped.

  306. 306.

    Rina99

    September 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    Well, that happened. Trump seemed manic and panicked. No one can contain that wall of bullshit consistently,  but Biden managed to get his digs in. Trump is fighting for his freedom, which made him even worse than he was against Hillary.

  307. 307.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @Morzer: Hey, I’ve got a spare pair of tap shoes (Clogs as we southerners call it). I’ll head out with ya.

  308. 308.

    MomSense

    September 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Damn. I only had one beer in the house so I had to switch to ice cream. It didn’t work.

  309. 309.

    Patricia Kayden

    September 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    We just won the election.— Rob Reiner (@robreiner) September 30, 2020

  310. 310.

    Kattails

    September 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I also wonder whether Biden is taking his time and taking the measure of how to deal with this next time. They surely knew Wallace would be useless. Trump won’t change, because he’s incapable of it, and that leaves him vulnerable to someone who can figure out his own best way of tossing the opponent next round.

  311. 311.

    mali muso

    September 29, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Lol.  Go for it!  I just timed the counter and saw $1mill raised within 13 minutes flat.

  312. 312.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    @Morzer:

  313. 313.

    planetjanet

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    Best reaction from a friend tonight: Brokahontas needs a shock collar.

  314. 314.

    Emma from FL

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    @Elizabelle: Chris Wallace is,basically, a sane person trying to deal with an exploding case of self-pitying narcissism that happens to have one of the most important titles in the world attached to his last name. In Florida, any regular person acting like Trump would have been Baker acted right there on stage.

  315. 315.

    Subsole

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    @M31: “Big tears in their little furry cheeks and they come up to me and say sir, sir Yub-yub, sir.”

  316. 316.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    @C Stars: FWIW, the people I follow on Twitter are mostly talking about how horrifying Trump is, not much insight on who they think “won” except everyone loses.

  317. 317.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    @Leto: Just don’t ask me to do it backwards and in heels!

  318. 318.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    Nicole Wallace calling out Chris for being a shitty moderator. Said Trumpov is an abuser, Chris was abused. Said Chris definitively had choices on what to do and just failed. Good.

  319. 319.

    Immanentize

    September 29, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    @MomSense: I am going to make sure you stock up if this ever happens again.

  320. 320.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: They did boo Santa.

  321. 321.

    trnc

    September 29, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    I’ve been defending Wallace some, but Tapper made a good point about him not saying earlier, “Mr Prez, you are violating the rules agreed to by your campaign.” Apparently, not until 1 hour 13 minutes in.

  322. 322.

    zhena gogolia

    September 29, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    @Leto:

    Yeah, he couldn’t afford to piss off his bosses. He sucked (and I didn’t even watch it).

  323. 323.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    @Llelldorin:

    Trump had to damage Biden in the first one and he didn’t. I don’t know if he damaged himself- I can’t imagine still supporting him at this point- but he didn’t hurt Biden and he had to.

    The other debates won’t matter. Had to be this one.

  324. 324.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:47 pm

    @Subsole: Lost it at “yub-yub”… hahahaha

    @Morzer: Deal!

  325. 325.

    WaterGirl

    September 29, 2020 at 10:47 pm

    @MomSense: I preemptively ate two desserts after dinner.  It did help a little bit.

  326. 326.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:48 pm

    @zhena gogolia: there’s a hell of a lot more grifting to do post Trumpov. CREAM.

  327. 327.

    MisterForkbeard

    September 29, 2020 at 10:48 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca: I have some 20-ish friends doing the “that was a shitshow, no one won it. God save America” thing.

    I think this might have been a partial goal? Fuck the thing up so much that Biden can’t give a ‘normal’ debate?

  328. 328.

    Cheryl Rofer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:48 pm

    That was…bad

  329. 329.

    Chris Johnson

    September 29, 2020 at 10:48 pm

    He told Proud Boys to stand BACK and stand by. Stand down is different.

    I’m very happy with how Biden came across.

  330. 330.

    Eljai

    September 29, 2020 at 10:48 pm

    @Leto: I appreciate that she brought up abuse.  ‘Cause I kind of feel like I’ve been held at gun point by a meth-addled maniac.

  331. 331.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:49 pm

    @Leto: Williams did miss the “white” in front of “supremacists”.

  332. 332.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:49 pm

    @Kay: I think this is probably a win on points for Biden, but even a draw is bad for Trump.  Biden sounded like someone thinking about the American people and taking the job seriously. Trump sounded like that annoying spoilt brat who won’t shut the fuck up on long car journeys.

  333. 333.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 29, 2020 at 10:49 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    You are brilliant at understatement.

  334. 334.

    Baud

    September 29, 2020 at 10:49 pm

    I think it was good of Biden to say at the end that voters should ignore Trump’s bluster about the election.

  335. 335.

    Immanentize

    September 29, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    @Morzer: Romney would have strapped him to the roof rack.

  336. 336.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    September 29, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    Hmm I didn’t see it by it sounds like the Sons of Broder have their work cut out for them to both sides this.

  337. 337.

    Subsole

    September 29, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:  Do witches do that, tho?

     

    @Baud: I really wish they hadn’t.

  338. 338.

    BruceFromOhio

    September 29, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    I admire all of you for your willingness, ability, and fortitude to sit through the mental equivalent of being shot out of a cannon, multiple times. Safely in my study reading Wikipedia and spending money on ActBlue is all I got.

    Sweet dreams, jackals.

  339. 339.

    Leto

    September 29, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    @Immanentize: “It’s an older reference sir, but it checks out.” – Admiral Piett

  340. 340.

    mad citizen

    September 29, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    @Keith P.: national review guy just wondered the same on NBC regarding no more debates.  Really, no one needs this.  We are all red or blue team, or as LP puts it: trump or america.

  341. 341.

    Quinerly

    September 29, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    @Leto: I liked her screaming child in the backseat analogy.

  342. 342.

    Kay

    September 29, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    Fred Wellman
    @FPWellman
    ·25m
    That attack on Hunter Biden was beyond pale and another lie. He failed a drug test as a newly commissioned Reserve office. He was Administratively Discharged not Dishonorably. We have an opiod crisis and the President is smearing a recovering addict for political points.

    I genuinely wonder about this. There are so many grieving parents of addicts. You just cannot imagine the pain these people have been through. I live in a very conservative area and it just isn’t done anymore, because everyone knows someone. Most people know a lot of someones. We’ve all been to funerals.

  343. 343.

    catclub

    September 29, 2020 at 10:53 pm

    @Morzer: I think this is probably a win on points for Biden, but even a draw is bad for Trump

     
    I agree, and I cannot see undecided voters thinking they want 4 more years of trump, after that. Trump was still all about riling up his base. Biden was trying to reach undecided voters.

  344. 344.

    cain

    September 29, 2020 at 10:54 pm

    this link is talking about PBS and of course we had to have one both sides because both sides were mean. When one guy turns personal and is on the attack constantly..

  345. 345.

    tom

    September 29, 2020 at 10:54 pm

    @Percysowner: that’s pretty much how I wound up at BJ. I started reading Sully because he wasn’t buying W’s bullshit about the Iraq war. Sully mentioned John Cole as a “principled conservative” also opposed to the war, which is how I wound up here. I stopped reading Sullivan years ago, but BJ is one of my daily must-reads.

  346. 346.

    Geminid

    September 29, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    Biden laughing at trump reminded me that I have never seen trump laugh. May be an aspect of his sociopathy.

  347. 347.

    cain

    September 29, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    Lot of both sidesism on PBS.

  348. 348.

    Jeffro

    September 29, 2020 at 10:56 pm

    @Keith P.: I hope the Biden campaign only has one catch: “the moderator/s have to cut the mic on any candidate talking over another, or I’m out of here”

  349. 349.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 10:56 pm

    Nice clean post debate open thread is posted for you all.

  350. 350.

    Morzer

    September 29, 2020 at 10:56 pm

    @tom: I think we all know that the real “John Cole” has a shaved ass and does not answer to the name “Steve”.

  351. 351.

    Subsole

    September 29, 2020 at 10:57 pm

    @Leto: Lol, nice.

  352. 352.

    Jeffro

    September 29, 2020 at 10:58 pm

    @Keith P.: I hope the Biden campaign only has one catch: “the moderator/s have to cut the mic on any candidate talking over another, or I’m out of here”

     

    @Leto: I love the appropriateness of “abuser” and I hope Biden & Co use it more going forward

  353. 353.

    Jeffro

    September 29, 2020 at 10:59 pm

    @Kay: Yup.  He’s way behind and this debate moved no one at all from Biden to trumpov

  354. 354.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 29, 2020 at 10:59 pm

    @planetjanet: Tell your friend to find a less racist slur to describe the Orange ?

  355. 355.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 29, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    @cain: Judy Woodruff excels at both sidery BS.

  356. 356.

    Ruckus

    September 29, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    @dmsilev:

    There is so little that he actually knows that differentiating between knowing and not knowing is futile.

  357. 357.

    L85NJGT

    September 29, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    @Morzer:

    The twinkle in Joe’s eye is worth +.5 to +1 point.

    Trump’s asshole meltdown -1.5

    National average aggregates will be Biden +10 by the end of the week.

  358. 358.

    Kattails

    September 29, 2020 at 11:01 pm

    I have on my fridge a yellowing clip of a Wiley Miller/Non Sequitur comic from prior to the 2016 election. The main caption reads: “Climbing the new ladder of success” and the drawing is of a bum on a street corner holding out his hat. Next to him is a “thermometer” board (Just like BJ!) that says “help me reach my goal!” from the bottom up, the lines are “babbling wino–prophet of doom–blowhard in bar–blowhard on radio–Donald Trump”.

    This cartoon has never lost its relevance.

  359. 359.

    Jeffro

    September 29, 2020 at 11:02 pm

    @catclub: wait…both undecided voters?  LOL

  360. 360.

    trnc

    September 29, 2020 at 11:03 pm

    @Jeffro: I love the appropriateness of “abuser” and I hope Biden & Co use it more going forward

    Yup. “He’s an abuser, but I’ll stand up to him when he tries to beat up on anyone who disagrees with him.”

  361. 361.

    MoCA Ace

    September 29, 2020 at 11:03 pm

    @Danielx: Chugging high grade whiskey? Barbarian.

    It’s a sip damn it… one continuous, high-volume sip.   And don’t judge me.  Without alcohol I never would have made it through the first 20 minutes.  I made the mistake of tuning in for the fucking post-game.  Don’t put that bottle away just yet!

  362. 362.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 11:05 pm

    @Leto:   That’s a good point, about an abuser and the abused.

    It fits with Wallace.  Cut the fucker’s mike.  Insist he follow the rules his campaign agreed to.

    Although:  I think Trump did himself a world of hurt.  Watch in the upcoming days and week.

  363. 363.

    Elizabelle

    September 29, 2020 at 11:06 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:   Why I am not watching PBS.  Or listening to NP — don’t hit us again! – R.

    Fuck ’em.

    I do love hearing that Dana Bash called the debate a shitshow.  Gonna go look up that clip now.

  364. 364.

    Sab

    September 29, 2020 at 11:08 pm

    @Kay: My stepson is a recovered addict and he put us and himself through hell for years. He got into it because his homelife sucked and he was desparately unhappy.

    Hunter Biden got into drugs because he spent much of his childhood on pain medication after a near fatal accident that killed his mother and baby sister. He was addicted to pain killers before he even had a choice because he was an accident victim in a hospital giving him pain meds he needed.

  365. 365.

    Skepticat

    September 29, 2020 at 11:08 pm

    @khead: Women have to be cringing at this shit.

    No, this woman is furious and ready to tear his throat out.

  366. 366.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 11:08 pm

    @Subsole: I’m assuming it is personal preference just like with everyone else.

  367. 367.

    frosty

    September 29, 2020 at 11:10 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Winner!!!!!

  368. 368.

    Bill Arnold

    September 29, 2020 at 11:11 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    Although: I think Trump did himself a world of hurt.

    Biden was not shy about pushing Trump’s buttons. Amplifying an asshole meltdown is a “make them overreach” tactic, perhaps deliberate.
    There’s been a lot of that going on vs Rs, as a generalized tactic. Seem to work well on them.

  369. 369.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    September 29, 2020 at 11:12 pm

    @Avalune: We need rakes.

  370. 370.

    Hoppie

    September 29, 2020 at 11:12 pm

    @Geminid:

    I believe there is footage of Rump laughing with Jeffrey Epstein.

  371. 371.

    Sab

    September 29, 2020 at 11:14 pm

    @Kay: Almost all my stepson’s friends from high school are dead. Sweet kids. Not the ravaging monsters you see on TV. Just sweet stupid kids who wanted to relax and get high and waste their lives. And they did.

  372. 372.

    MCA1

    September 29, 2020 at 11:15 pm

    @danielx: I mean, that stuff’s like 12% ABV, isn’t it?  I’d rather just have three or four fingers of rye and save myself 600 calories.

  373. 373.

    Bill Arnold

    September 29, 2020 at 11:15 pm

    @Morzer:

    Trump sounded like that annoying spoilt brat who won’t shut the fuck up on long car journeys.

    He sounded like a propaganda-addled Dunning-Kruger afflicted RW nut job, on drugs that amplified his unattractive belligerence.

  374. 374.

    TriassicSands

    September 29, 2020 at 11:21 pm

    @dmsilev:

    If only that could be done.

    I’m a horrible person, but I keep hoping Trump’s head will explode. On screen.

    Clearly, the moderator has to exercise greater control. For the benefit of all the bothsiderists out there, the moderator can exercise greater control over both sides. Of course, that will be a simple job in the case of Biden. With Trump it will be non-stop.

    A WaPo commentator just referred to “lots of bullying, lots of trolling.” Guess which candidate he was talking about? Another WaPo commentator just referred to it as “unwatchable.”

    Joe Biden didn’t “win” this debate; Trump lost it…except with all of his supporters. But no one could reasonably expect Trump being Trump to cost him any support among his followers.

    A new slogan was coined tonight. Trump to the white supremacist Proud Boys: “Stand back and standby.” Standby for the day when Trump has to call you to hit the streets with all your guns because the Democrats “stole the election” by coming out to vote in greater numbers than Republicans.

    I was proud of Joe for calling “the president of the United States” a “clown.” I did think that he waited too long to tell Trump to shut up, but that was Wallace’s fault for not demanding much earlier that Trump just STFU. Before the Trump presidency there was always a level of “respect” for the president that would preclude the possibility of a moderator telling him to “shut up.” But Trump, the destroyer of norms, is such a POS that I think Wallace should have used exactly those words. (Minus the “F” part.)

    My conclusion: Biden gets a fair grade — C+ or B-*. Trump? The worst performance in a presidential debate ever — a clear Z–.

    *It’s hard to imagine how anyone could do a lot better against Trump. Greater rhetorical skill would help.

  375. 375.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 29, 2020 at 11:22 pm

    @frosty: Sometimes the classics are best.

  376. 376.

    frosty

    September 29, 2020 at 11:33 pm

    @Percysowner: Cindy, she was the one I couldn’t remember. John said he changed his views because of three women: Cindy Shaheen, Terri Schiavo, and Katrina.

  377. 377.

    MCA1

    September 29, 2020 at 11:36 pm

    @catclub: I don’t even give him that much credit.  There’s no strategy here, like appealing to his base.  Trying to expand his coalition or reach out to hesitant or undecided voters could never be a possibility for him.  Not only is it not in his repertoire, it’s not even a thing that he recognizes.  There is not now and never has been any strategy.  There is no inner life or self-reflection, which would be necessary for contemplating a strategy.  It’s all tactics, all the time.  He just so happens to be the perfect totem for the hatred, self-loathing, racism, sexism, and misdirected anger of approximately 70 million of our fellow citizens.  But that’s the extent of it.

    A debate involving him is nothing but his narcissism turned loose on stage.  The one and only thing that mattered to Donald J. Trump about this evening was being able to convince himself on the way home that he hadn’t been shamed, that he’d been victimized, or that he’d dominated another human being.  It’s getting over, 24/7/365 for this primative bunch of mechanical impulses.  Recognizing that he’s losing an electoral race, understanding that some people might be swayable, realizing that the majority of us do not perceive him to be the greatest leader in human history?  Those things do not exist in the dank swamp of his bottomless, needy narcissism.  His moment-to-moment perception of whether or not he’s safe from shame or exposure is the entirety of his conscious universe.

  378. 378.

    danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 11:39 pm

    Annnd….wait for it….

    I’ve never seen Biden seem so old or so weak. He can’t land a strong blow. He’s being successfully heckled. I want to look away.
    — Andrew Sullivan (@sullydish) September 30, 2020

    Color me unsurprised.

  379. 379.

    danielx

    September 29, 2020 at 11:41 pm

    @MCA1:

    Food and drink in one!

  380. 380.

    The Pale Scot

    September 29, 2020 at 11:55 pm

    @Kay:

    Just imagine what they would say if Barack Obama had spent half the 2012 debate attacking Craig Romney like an insane person.

    I’m seeing a combo of Anton Jackson, Homey D. Clown, David Chappelle’s Rick James impersonation, and Omar Little

    And I’d give up some days to see it

  381. 381.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    September 30, 2020 at 12:06 am

    @tom: Exactly.  I found Sully because he was against Bush’s torture, and I ended up ignoring most of his other stuff before just moving over to BJ (especially when he would start in on conservative British political thinkers – who cares).  I did enjoy the weekly feature of “where was this picture taken” and the amazing detective work people would do to figure it out.  But haven’t read him in more than 15 years now I guess it is.  John already had Lily when I found BJ but I’ve been here for everything else.

  382. 382.

    Ruckus

    September 30, 2020 at 12:07 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    He was 4 yrs younger, less demented and hadn’t screwed the pooch as bad as he has as president. He also has seemingly had experienced a bit of luck pushing women around, and probably has never really tried to be as obvious as he was with Hilary. How would she have fared if she had turned to him and said something like – go back to your place? She didn’t expect him to be quite the ass he was. Joe didn’t seem to be expecting him to be any less an ass than he was.

  383. 383.

    Jinchi

    September 30, 2020 at 12:13 am

    @MobiusKlein: Gish Gallop – how can you fight it?

    You demonstrate that the person is a liar. Pick a demostrable falsehood and crush it. The Achilles heel of the Gish Gallop is that even the audience can’t keep track of all the lies being spouted. So you don’t have to refute every point, you just need to have the takeaway be “Trump lied.”

    It sounds like Biden was working towards this with his “Everybody knows he’s a liar” comment, which is close but not quite there. But I didn’t watch the debate, so I don’t know if he drove the point home.

  384. 384.

    The Lodger

    September 30, 2020 at 12:17 am

      If the president thinks his best case is made in urine he can have at it,” Kate Bedingfield, Biden’s deputy campaign manager, said…

    That’s exactly what Trump did tonight.

  385. 385.

    Ruckus

    September 30, 2020 at 12:33 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Does anyone think trump was not medicated with some non prescription “medicine?”

  386. 386.

    Ruckus

    September 30, 2020 at 12:40 am

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    Why can’t he be held responsible?

    Who is going to certify him as insane or as a possible harm to others? Who is going to step in? None of his sycophants. None of his followers. It would have to be a court or the VP/cabinet, a 25th. And that isn’t going to happen. So it’s on him.

  387. 387.

    Ilefttxwhenannlost

    September 30, 2020 at 12:58 am

    @cain: how about a Nickelodeon bucket of good dumped on his head…

     

    • @JaySinWA: yes!
  388. 388.

    Warblewarble

    September 30, 2020 at 7:25 am

    The night tRUMP was re elected president of the PROUD BOYS.

  389. 389.

    The Fat White Duchess

    September 30, 2020 at 7:55 pm

    @Elizabelle: Yes. And uses it (them?) to harass Angela Merkel.

  390. 390.

    The Fat White Duchess

    September 30, 2020 at 8:12 pm

    @Elizabelle: Diamond Head. https://youtu.be/Dzh6XCjUfno

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