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You are here: Home / Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Debate Me!

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Debate Me!

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Now we can all start worrying that, if Trump doesn’t actually drop trou or start licking the podium, his supporters will proclaim an Amazing Comeback!!!… to which the Media Village Idiots, like obedient cattle, will moo huzzahs of praise.



Seriously, though: The Oval Office Occupant is gonna embarrass the sane people among us, even if he & his henchmen are incapable of embarrassment. The only question is how badly he’ll do (and/or how obviously Wallace will try to slant his ‘moderation’).

When it concerns the Squatter-in-Chief and his courtiers, it’s *always* projection:

Reader Interactions

382Comments

  2. 2.

    MJS

    Good morning everyone. I won’t be able to watch tonight. Too nervous. But I’ll be checking in here to see how it’s going.

  4. 4.

    Jeffro

    I’d encourage everyone to watch, as I doubt there will be a second or third debate

    PS the polling coming out of PA and OH is really encouraging!  I haven’t been adding Ohio into the calculations over at 270towin, but I’ll give it a shot and…oh…oh wow.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    I’ve always thought seven was suspicious. I mean, one digit but two syllables? C’mon, people, read the signs.

  6. 6.

    Morzer

    Reporter Dan Alexander reckons that Trump owes 1.1 billion bucks of debt. The whole thread is well worth reading in a horrifying kind of way:

    https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/1310364815710453760

    12/ In Chicago, Trump lists two loans on his financial disclosure report. One for $25-50M and one for $50M+. These are complex liabilities that I won’t go too much into right now, but that’s another $75M+ in debt. Total debt accounted for so far: $1.1 billion.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    Remember, the hated Hillary Clinton aced the debates.  Whenever people saw her as opposed to the media caricature of her, her polling went up.  Biden is much more well liked, and he’s an experienced debater. The most frustrating thing will be watching the moderators and the media spin.

  9. 9.

    johnnybuck

    I doubt the outcome changes much of anything. The poor media has certainly hyped it as a clash of titans. I expect that it probably underwhelm.

  10. 10.

    Kay

    Justin Baragona
    @justinbaragona
    Sean Hannity brings on Dr. Ronny Jackson, former White House physician turned Trumpy congressional candidate, specifically to accuse Biden of using PEDs:
    “But I think it’s reasonable to ask if he’s taking medications to help him with his alertness and his memory.”

    Just a reminder that we were told repeatedly that Dr. Ronny Jackson was credible, immediately prior to his becoming a far Right political candidate.
    No one has ever explained or even mentioned this error. If he’s a liar now he was a liar when he released Trump’s phony health stats. He bamboozled all the people who vouched for him.

  13. 13.

    Jeffro

    @Morzer: that’s awesome!  There’s certainly plenty of time to keep hammering on who he owes that debt to, and how his money-losing golf courses help bad people launder money.

  14. 14.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    The wife told me she slept like garbage last night.  She’s a nervous wreck about tonight’s debate.  I’m ready to watch drumph embarrass himself and the country. Fuckem.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    I probably wouldn’t watch if I couldn’t live blog it here.  As of now, however, I’m on the fence.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    I think the topic choice is Right leaning, which is annoying, because we won’t get a Left leaning moderator. We’ll get one on the Right and the rest will be agnostic, which is not “equal” but is instead skewed Right. I don’t think that accurately reflects the country and shows excessive deference to far Right and Right leaning voters at the expense of the majority.

  21. 21.

    Jeffro

    OT but I wonder if enough will come out about trumpov’s debts and even the money laundering for some prominent Dem figure to suggest that the president* read the writing on the wall, cut a deal, and come clean with the American people and various investigations.  “Be a hero, for once in your life”.  I mean it’s not like his finances are going to get better.

    I’m not saying he’d take the deal, but if Biden & Co really want to go for the throat…they’d get the concept out there.

    I know, pure fantasy!  But still.

  22. 22.

    Zzyzx

    I treat this debate like the end of a football game where my team is up 14 with 2:17 left and they have the ball. The odds are really good for my team but only bad things can happen now.

    Admittedly it doesn’t quite work here because it does matter by how much Biden wins, but the downside is still so much greater, so it’s terrifying.

  23. 23.

    debbie

    I hope Biden gives Trump the space to prove to the world what a lunatic ignoramus he really is. It wouldn’t hurt to work the word “Adderall” into his responses once or twice.

  25. 25.

    Morzer

    I think it’s quite possible that Trump will lose it on stage. He’s obviously unable to handle any sort of questioning from reporters and I don’t think he’s going to be able to deal with Joe Biden punching his bruises repeatedly and cheerfully.

  27. 27.

    PsiFighter37

    No idea why anyone would subject themselves to watching Donnie more than required. First year I am going to skip the debates entirely since I was of voting age.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    It’s nerve wracking but the most probable outcome is that the debate is boring and doesn’t move the needle at all in either direction.

  29. 29.

    Splitting Image

    The question will be whether Biden disappoints the Democratic base by failing to land a knockout blow or whether he attacks relentlessly and thereby cedes the moral high ground to Trump.

    Seriously, it’s entirely possible that the timing of the New York Times’ scoop may have been a conscious decision to hit Trump right before the debate so that if he completely falls apart after tonight the Times can say that it was them who knocked him down, not Biden. It’s always about controlling the narrative for those people.

  30. 30.

    John S.

    A friend (who voted for Trump in 2016) told me they would be listening to the debates accompanied by Pink Floyd.

    When Trump is speaking, he will play Brain Damage, and when Biden speaks, he will play Shine On You Crazy Diamond. That’s pretty telling coming from one of his former supporters.

  31. 31.

    JPL

    trump is bringing guests to the debate to intimidate Joe.    I guess Tara is on the list, but I wonder who else.

  32. 32.

    Zzyzx

    I don’t think it’ll be boring. Trump is somewhat desperate and is going to do stupid and dramatic things. Not moving the needle though is likely.

  33. 33.

    Baud

    @PsiFighter37:

    No idea why anyone would subject themselves to watching Donnie more than required

    I’ve been like that for a while, as far back as the Bush years, just turning off all the lies and bullshit.  Lately, I’ve come to regret it a little, thinking that might play into the GOP’s hands.  OTOH, it is frustrating to listen to it and not be able to immediately fix the problem.  It’s a tough call.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    I’ll skip it, just like I skip most everything that means nothing to me. I am voting for B/H regardless, so I’ll just spend that time doing something important like cataloguing my belly button lint collection. You guys will catch me up on the highlights and the lowlights tomorrow AM.

  37. 37.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    My cupboard of fucks is so bare that I have no qualms about watching.  I plan to point at tRump and mock him mercilessly.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    David Axelrod
    @davidaxelrod
    Jan 16, 2018
    I knew Dr. Ronny Jackson in the White House. In my experience, he was very good guy and straight shooter.

    Why do they all do this? Do you get a gold star on your cable pundit booking roster? Donald Trump isn’t 239 pounds. Obviously. So that’s one huge lie!
    Immediately after this Jackson launched his career as a far Right hack. It happens over and over. Why voluntarily vouch for these liars?

  42. 42.

    Morzer

    @Zzyzx: I suspect that so many  people have made up their minds very very firmly that there’s almost nobody left to persuade, even by the most dazzling debate performance.  Not that I think Trump is capable of any such thing.

  45. 45.

    mrmoshpotato

    @satby:

    Now an American version of Prime Ministers Questions in the House, THAT’S political theater I would enjoy. 

    “You traitorous, orange, broke-ass conman!  Flee to Moscow already!”

  46. 46.

    mrmoshpotato

    @PsiFighter37:

    No idea why anyone would subject themselves to watching Donnie more than required. First year I am going to skip the debates entirely since I was of voting age. 

    Same.  And I shouldn’t have subjected myself to the 2016 shitshow either.

  47. 47.

    Jeffery

    Not going to bother to watch the debate. I expect sniffles to be all over the place. This is probably the only debate as Lil Donald isn’t up to it. Sad.

  49. 49.

    John S.

    @Baud: If Trump even dares to ding Biden by referring to one of his “special guests”, Biden’s response should be “This venue isn’t large enough to hold all the people who you have wronged in your life”.

  50. 50.

    Zzyzx

    @Morzer: but does that still hold if the media spends two weeks analyzing the time that Biden said “million” when he meant “thousand” before correcting himself and therefore he’s obviously completely brain dead?

    Probably, because we have real issues right now but there is a history for stupid and trivial things to have an outsized effect on the election.

  51. 51.

    johnnybuck

    @Baud: Most of them are. They get hyped up as political masterminds, when really it was their candidate who made the connection with the voters, which is really all that matters.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    What we learned the last three years is they are terrible judges of character. So maybe they could recognize that weakness, that consistent failing, and stop telling us what they “know”.

    He apparently didn’t know Jackson at all, because Jackson is a joke of a physician who faked stats and lied to millions of people. That didn’t happen between January and March of 2018. He didn’t go from ethical and honest to lying weasel over 3 months.

  56. 56.

    Mousebumples

    Any volunteers to give the run down for those that won’t be watching? I’ll watch clips but I don’t think I could watch that much of Trump without getting ill…

    I figure we’ll have a live blog thread going tonight?

  57. 57.

    Geminid

    No tv, so I’ll be listening to the debate on the radio. And following it in that disreputable corner of the internet called Balloon Juice.

  59. 59.

    hueyplong

    The last time I heard Trump’s voice for more than 5 seconds without Ms Cooper’s mocking face to soften the blow was in 2017. If Trump does something particularly self destructive I’ll watch video as directed by a post here.

    Otherwise I’m self-medicating to Mick and Keef’s renditions of the turn-of-the-Eighties New York hellscape.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I think it’s incomplete. I’ll watch because honestly I watched Trump’s town hall and it was a fucking train wreck so hugely entertaining but the topics that were left off and frame around the topics will be Right leaning, which means “incomplete”. Not an accurate portrayal of issues or events, due to deliberate omissions.

    I wish it was a town hall. The faces of the people asking the question when Trump “responded” was well worth the time investment. A combination of baffled and annoyed. Like how a normal person reacts when presented with a huge, tap dancing bullshitter who is covering up the fact that he doesn’t know anything.

  63. 63.

    Morzer

    @Zzyzx: I don’t think the media are going to matter in the least. Newspaper endorsements are clearly irrelevant and we live in an age where everyone is in their chosen bubble where news is concerned. What matters in this election is that a majority of people hate, distrust and despise Trump – and have done so from the start of his *presidency.  He got extremely lucky last time against a very widely distrusted opponent. Now he’s up against someone that most people like, with 4 years’ worth of evidence of his own corrupt, cruel, bigoted incompetence and dishonesty.  His campaign is out of money, he’s managed to throw away the SCOTUS card that might have kept the GOP with him to the end, he’s lost the suburbs. He’s got nothing.

  64. 64.

    danielx

    Don’t think I’ll be able to watch. Listening to to Trump’s voice is like using a wood rasp on my nerves.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    @Morzer:

    He’s got hate and white panic, just like in 2016.  It doesn’t seem to be working this time, but we don’t trust enough to be at ease.

  66. 66.

    Jinchi

    Biden and his wonderbrain drug

    I think it’s telling that Trump thinks idiots can become geniuses by taking illegal drugs.

  67. 67.

    Baud

    If Biden were leading in the polls 75-15, there would still be undecided voters that the media would focus on.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    Today show has a hack panel of white suburban women in Ohio who are undecided but conservative and are concerned about Biden’s conservative abilities.

  70. 70.

    Kathleen

    @MJS: Seconded. Tempted because Ohio Democratic Party is having watch party tonight and Cory Booker is supposed to make appearance.

  71. 71.

    RSA

    Joe Biden just announced that he will not agree to a Drug Test. Gee, I wonder why?

    Donald, you will not agree to a DNA test. Gee, I wonder why?

  72. 72.

    p.a.

    @Kay: It really is about tire swings and cocktail parties.  For some of those in the MSM,  it’s still Tip & Ronnie knockin’ a few back after negotiations.  So clueless they can’t/won’t see the Rethugs treat all governance as a zero-sum equation.  Still some Dems too, it seems *ahem* DiFi *ahem

  73. 73.

    Morzer

    @Baud: If you look at the polling coming out of Wisconsin, where you might have expected the riots, white panic and Trump’s law and order/racist rhetoric to get somewhere, it’s clear that these things have had no impact at all.  Likewise, Minnesota was thought to be an opportunity for a Trump gain – but if anything it’s moved away from him to quite a surprising degree.  Of course, we can’t be complacent, but there’s been no sign whatever of anything like a substantial swing back to Trump from Biden in the polling.  Sure, we live in… umm… interesting times, but I don’t see anything that’s going to help Trump at this point, unless Biden just turns up his toes and joins the choir eternal before November 3rd.

  75. 75.

    Morzer

    @Baud:

    “Karen 1, do you feel that Biden’s abject failure to personally shoot rioters has changed your view of his conservative bona fides?”

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    But there’s an assumption undecideds are Right leaning. So they leave off climate change, or frame the protests as not about civil rights but instead about “violence”, or approach all religion as Right wing religious people pursuing Right wing goals. Black people are more religious than white people. Fact. They go to church more and more of them identify as religious- Christians, specifically, and they are also an essential part of Joe Biden’s base although not part of Donald Trump’s base. Why don’t we ever get that perspective on religion? I would even settle for “here’s Trump’s religious base (fundy white people) and here’s Biden’s (professed religious black people)” but I don’t get that. Omission. Inaccurate by omission.

  77. 77.

    Morzer

    @Baud: I should hope not!  I really don’t want to have to replace you with Ivanka Glory Of The Lord Trump as my VP pick for 2028.

  78. 78.

    hueyplong

    @Morzer: “… unless Biden just turns up his toes and joins the choir eternal before November 3rd.”

    At which point we’d get 24/7 coverage of Kamala Harris as Che Guevara with a hoo-ha (the Guevara part being of course the less scary one).

  79. 79.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I think you’re right about the assumption. OTOH, it’s a little hard to respect left leaning undecided voters in 2020 or to believe they are gettable if only the debate topics focused on “their issues.”  More likely, they would find Biden’s responses insufficiently inspiring.

    I don’t know what the right answer is. I just want to maximize our gains.

  80. 80.

    JoyceH

    @Baud: Yes there will be an audience. But it will be about 60 people appropriately socially distanced. I think having an audience will backfire for Trump because he’s going to be so taken aback when they don’t start chanting like his rallies. He’ll try to get them whipped up and in a debate setting he’ll look deranged.

  86. 86.

    Kathleen

    @Morzer:  I listen to a Black owned radio station all day while I work and I pay attention to which candidates are buying ad time. Biden is not only running a lot of ads but his campaign is hosting online discussions. The one I heard about this morning is geared to importance of Black women votes.

    Other candidates include Democratic candidate for OH1 Kate Schroeder who is currently leading Chabot in some polls and Hamilton County Republican prosecutor Joe Deters. Both running lots of ads. And all day long the message from on air personalities is is vote vote vote.

  89. 89.

    Kathleen

    @Morzer:  I listen to a Black owned radio station all day while I work and I pay attention to which candidates are buying ad time. Biden is not only running a lot of ads but his campaign is hosting online discussions. The one I heard about this morning is geared to importance of Black women votes.

    Other candidates include Democratic candidate for OH1 Kate Schroeder who is currently leading Chabot in some polls and Hamilton County Republican prosecutor Joe Deters. Both running lots of ads. And all day long the message from on air personalities is is vote vote vote.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    @JPL:

    I don’t think the lying issue matters anymore. People reached their own conclusions about Trump’s honesty – not good. We’re going to get all the “opposed to being lied to constantly” vote. It’s just smaller than might have been predicted.

  92. 92.

    Jinchi

    @Kay: I wish it was a town hall, too.

    The questions are more authentic and asked by people who legitimately want to hear an answer. None of them waste time asking for a show of hands or shut down the candidate for exceeding a 30 second response time, because typically they get one shot to ask a question and they don’t want to blow it. BS and dodging don’t play well when responding to a someone who wants to know how to get healthcare for a sick child or whether they can rebuild after a fire has destroyed their town.

  94. 94.

    Morzer

    The last 3 polls of PA show Biden up by 9, 9 and 10 points. The most recent poll of Alaska (!) shows Trump up by… 1 (!).  Make of that what you will, but it doesn’t seem promising for Donald the Negative Billionaire.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    @Kathleen:

    I listened to part of a county chair conference call and the three C’s chairs were downright chipper, especially Franklin. I’m wondering if people in the rural counties are more pessimistic than people in the urban counties. If the divide is more pronounced than it was, due to the very vocal and belligerent Trump support in the rurals.

  96. 96.

    mrmoshpotato

    @JPL:

    How many times will trump call Biden a liar?    I’m going with more than 30 times. 

    Are you starting a pool?  Whose pupper is holding the money?

  97. 97.

    trnc

    @debbie: I hope Biden gives Trump the space to prove to the world what a lunatic ignoramus he really is.

    For anyone who hasn’t seen it in the last 4 years, I doubt 90 minutes will make a difference. Agree about the adderall, though.

  98. 98.

    Mousebumples

    @Jinchi:I think it’s telling that Trump thinks idiots can become geniuses by taking illegal drugs.

    Best comment I saw on that (probably from someone here last night though I forget who) – there’s a drug that makes you debate better? And Bloomberg couldn’t afford it?! ?

  99. 99.

    Geminid

    There are few undecided voters this year, and they are probably in the middle politically. I think the debates’ bigger impact will be as a motivator or demotivator for the candidates’ partisans. trump has the greater potential downside in this dynamic, I would guess.

  102. 102.

    Kathleen

    @johnnybuck: Ryan Lizza? The guy who tweeted during 2016 campaign that Trump would govern to the left of Hillary and Chris Hayes tweeted agreement Ryan Lizza? Bwa ha ha. Just made my day.

  104. 104.

    trnc

    @Splitting Image: Seriously, it’s entirely possible that the timing of the New York Times’ scoop may have been a conscious decision to hit Trump right before the debate so that if he completely falls apart after tonight the Times can say that it was them who knocked him down, not Biden.

    Whatever puts DT on his ass is fine with me, and I expect Biden would agree.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    @Jinchi:

    I just really appreciated their practicality. Their normalcy. The annoyance with being bamboozled by his bullshit. I recognize that. They sat down unsatisfied because he didn’t answer the questions, or responded with an obvious lie. I think that’s an authentic response to a bullshitter. They weren’t willing to help him because they see him as someone who is supposed to be helping them.

  106. 106.

    germy

    NEW YORK — A federal appeals judge on Friday questioned why Manhattan’s district attorney declined to execute a grand jury subpoena for President Trump’s long-sought tax returns when it appeared after a recent court order that prosecutors had an opportunity to do so.

    Judge Pierre N. Leval said he believed that the order issued Sept. 1 by a separate three-member panel of judges from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit was meant to pause a lower court’s dismissal of Trump’s renewed bid to kill the subpoena — but that it did not prevent the district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr. (D), from collecting the president’s financial records from his accounting firm in the meantime.

    “The stay was a stay on dismissal of complaint,” Leval said during questioning of a lawyer for the district attorney. “It was not a stay on execution of subpoena.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-tax-returns-appeal/2020/09/25/c8f425c8-ff45-11ea-9ceb-061d646d9c67_story.html

  108. 108.

    PsiFighter37

    Also would pass on this debate because Chris Wallace is moderating it, and he’s a fucking asshole.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    @germy: Honestly, the judge’s question makes no sense to me. There’s no reason to stay the dismissal of a lawsuit.  There is a reason to stay getting the information.

  110. 110.

    Karen S.

    @Kathleen: The radio station with music, ads and POV geared toward an “urban” (or Black in radio industry parlance) audience I listen to occasionally here in Chicago has been doing a lot of the same things you describe. And yes, there’s a very strong message of “Vote like your life depends on it because it does.” But I’ve listened to Black stations all my life, being Black myself, and, at least over the last couple of decades, that’s always been the case during elections. I think Black stations tend to be very community oriented in a way that radio stations geared towards a white audience are not.

  111. 111.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: @Kay: It sucks, but the marginal voter we need to maximize out gains is not left wing.

    The marginal voters we need to maximize our gains are people who will almost certainly vote Dem if they vote, but are unlikely to vote.

    Consider the turnout rates for young adults (overwhelmingly Dem), Blacks (>90% Dem), Hispanics (heavily Dem).

    There’s a fucking gold mine of votes there if we can get them.

    By comparison, trying to reach the <5% of the electorate that’s paying so little attention that they’re still undecided strikes me as a waste of time.

  112. 112.

    Kay

    @mrmoshpotato:

    She just wasn’t up to the challenge. A lot of people weren’t. It got really bad and none of their frames fit anymore and they were incapable of adjusting because it was more important to pretend the institutions were holding up than deal with the real fear that we watching it collapse. Whistling in the dark.

    The truth is it wasn’t even static. Trump didn’t start out sucking and stay there, albeit at a low level. He got worse every single month. This has been my experience with low quality hires. Not mediocre hires, who can and sometimes do get better, but BAD hires. They always get worse, never better. That’s why you fire them as soon as you can. They infect the whole organization. You’ll all go down with them.

  115. 115.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Nelle: Some apparently novel development in the Reade story is going to pop up in the last few days of the campaign, whether it amounts to anything or not–because it’s the closest thing they’ve got to Hillary’s emails. I’m hoping the Biden campaign is prepared for it.

  116. 116.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Jeffro: I sometimes listen to the Hacks on Tap podcast, with Axelrod and some R never Trumper. The R guy said he’d heard from Ohio insiders that their internals looked bad. They thought Biden might win Ohio.

  117. 117.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin: I thought that might happen during the DNC. But it didn’t.  And if she’s attending the debate as Trump’s guest that reduces her credibility even more.

  118. 118.

    Princess

    I think Trump has big BIG dirt on Dr. Ronny Jackson. Like usual, he doesn’t threaten Jackson with it but he lets him know he knows about it and lets him know what he’d like him to do. “I’d like you to do me a favour though.”

  119. 119.

    trnc

    @Kay: Yeah, it’s time for them to stop with that crap. They probably think being able to say something nice about a republican gives them cred, but like all sops to the gop, it’s counterproductive. The wingnuts still won’t give a rat’s ass when he criticizes one of theirs, and it makes it harder for us to take him seriously.

  120. 120.

    Kay

    @PsiFighter37:

    He is an asshole. I don’t know why I have to have a partisan Republican as a moderator without getting a partisan Democrat for one debate. That’s unfair to Democrats and liberals. If Wallace overcomes his partisan lean and does a credible job he’ll get all kinds of kudos but why am I always in the position where I’m hoping some Right winger manages to not push his agenda for 30 minutes? Why is this worthy of praise? I have no investment in his career. I don’t give a shit. His career is not relevant to me.

  122. 122.

    Betty Cracker

    I’ll watch the debate because I can’t NOT watch it, but I’m going to have to consume several cocktails to get through it. Might have to fortify myself with some herbal supplements too!

    I’m always hampered in my analysis about how well candidates are doing in a debate by at least two things. The first is a complete lack of objectivity. Trump could come out and read my favorite poem, and I would find the spectacle repulsive and offensive.

    The second is that my perceptions are usually out of step with how an exchange is perceived by the media and other voters. It’s not them, it’s me — I’m the outlier. I’ve learned to use my husband as a gauge for how “normies” respond.

  123. 123.

    trnc

    @Morzer: I suspect that so many people have made up their minds very very firmly that there’s almost nobody left to persuade, even by the most dazzling debate performance.

    Hopefully, it will be one more step in diminishing the wingnut claims about Biden that low information voters are prone to.

  125. 125.

    Kathleen

    @Kay: Hamilton County and Cincinnati have been reliably blue in Presidential and local elections since 2008. We still can’t crack Congress because of gerrymandering but Kate is up in OH1. I think Dems will get votes from suburbs in Hamilton and even Butler counties. Mason (northern suburbs) has become more diverse and I think women in those areas will vote for Biden/Harris.

    Sounds crazy but when Nancy Pelosi was keynote at Ohio Dem convention a couple of years ago I took that as sign big wigs considered Ohio in play.

    Ha! OT Reverend Barber just said if Trump is the thief McConnell is the getaway driver. He also said Trump’s court nominee has said overtime should be illegal? Whoa. Wants to party like it’s 1849.

  127. 127.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    Michael Calderone via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    “We don’t expect Chris [Wallace] or our other moderators to be fact-checkers,” debate co-chair Frank Fahrenkopf says ahead of Tuesday night’s debate.

    Then what’s the fucking point of even having moderators there, Fahrenkopf? If they’re not there to moderate over what’s true or not, then what the fuck *ARE* they there for?

  129. 129.

    Gin & Tonic

    One of the major real-time ADS-B (flight tracking) sites has been up and down the last couple of days. Rumors are that Turkey is running a DDOS attack so as to make it difficult to track the aircraft assets they are moving (have already moved?) to Azerbaijan.

  130. 130.

    TS (the original)

    @Matt McIrvin:

    If that is all they’ve got, they are overbaked and done. Joe has said all he intends or needs to say.

    The obvious response from any democrat about sexual assault and Biden: “After trump, you cannot even go there …”

  131. 131.

    Barbara

    @Kay: Does it never occur to people like David Axelrod that, like Axelrod himself, Ronny Jackson might just be saying what he needs to in order to impress the boss or Fox News or whoever is willing to pay him?

    Instead of judging Jackson by what he says he judges what Jackson says based on a preformed impression that he can’t imagine might just be the teensiest bit distorted.  Ad hominem logic at its absolute worst.

  133. 133.

    prostratedragon

    @Jeffro:
    Even without going into the money laundering there are ways to link the financial disclosures to performance in office. Two examples today:

    1. Is the failed COVID policy partly due to his need to get his failing businesses back on track and avoid having his indebtedness rise?
    Trump’s resort business is collapsing — is that why he pushed to reopen the economy?

    2. Are other policies dangerous to the American people and the land being pursued in order to grant favors to Trump’s lenders? New regulations would allow liquified natural gas on freight trains running through towns and cities, a rule change from last year that would benefit one of his larger lenders and perhaps get some of the loan forgiven. (As a Chicago Southsider I’m as steamed about this as it’s safe to be.)

  134. 134.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kay:

    She just wasn’t up to the challenge. 

    What challenge?  Not hating Clinton right out the gate?

    “Donald The Dove, Hillary The Hawk”

    Maureen Dowd can die in a fire while going and fucking herself.

  135. 135.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: I watched The Comey Rules on Showtime and  the reminder of that campaign triggered a lot of anxiety and rage. I still haven’t finished the Hulu documentary about Hillary because of the campaign clips.

  139. 139.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ll watch the debate because I can’t NOT watch it, but I’m going to have to consume several cocktails to get through it. 

    Sit out of throwing distance from your TV.

    Plastic cup.

    ?

  141. 141.

    Morzer

    @Cameron:

    “I have no desire to spend my evening listening to a lunatic shout gibberish consisting of lies and childish insults.”

    So Rudy Giuliani is participating in the debate?

  143. 143.

    Kathleen

    @mrmoshpotato: I’m sure she has but I refuse to give her any energy unless one of my Twitter faves alerts me to a particularly egregious vomit spew. Scott Limeaux (sp?) usually flags her but I’ve not even seen anything from him either so mabe St MoDo, Patron Saint of the Perpetually Petulant has receded into oblivion.

  146. 146.

    JPL

    It’s doubtful that I’ll watch more than a few minutes of the debate, because I don’t want to stress the pup.

  148. 148.

    Geminid

    @Kathleen: One interesting aspect of the 2018 midterms was that Virginia Democratic congressional candidates Jennifer Wexton, Abigail Spanberger, and Elaine Luria flipped districts drawn by a republican legislature to favor republicans. So did Libby Fletcher and Colin Allred in Texas.   The same might happen in the OH 1st. And Steve Chabot is an incumbent, and that may not be such a good thing this year.

  151. 151.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Agreed. They had specific, real-life issues, and they weren’t having any tap-dancing bullshit answers. A rare glimpse of Trump outside the bubble. He thinks deigning to take press questions is brave, but even those who ask tough questions give him unearned deference. The voters did not.

    Same with the people who were lined up to pay their respects to RBG when Trump showed up. They refused to play along with his bullshit show too, and good for them. IIRC, one of the presidential debates is supposed to be a town hall. Let’s hope the moderators don’t screen all the real people out.

  152. 152.

    Another Scott

    To me, Joe did well at the Democratic debates as long as he didn’t drink a 6 pack of Red Bull and try to cram too many words and topics into his answers. When he did, it didn’t look good.

    Relax, take his time, and throw Donnie an anvil a few times is all he needs to do with him. Re-elections are referendums on the incumbent.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  153. 153.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: But there’s an assumption undecideds are Right leaning. So they leave off climate change, or frame the protests as not about civil rights but instead about “violence”, or approach all religion as Right wing religious people pursuing Right wing goals. Black people are more religious than white people. Fact. They go to church more and more of them identify as religious- Christians, specifically, and they are also an essential part of Joe Biden’s base although not part of Donald Trump’s base. Why don’t we ever get that perspective on religion? I would even settle for “here’s Trump’s religious base (fundy white people) and here’s Biden’s (professed religious black people)” but I don’t get that. Omission. Inaccurate by omission.

    Once again it’s all about the “normal” voter, which the press sees as a white person, specifically a white man who is more conservative. That’s who they think the undecided voter is, thus their more conservative orientation. Can you imagine the howls of outrage on the right if, for example, Joy Reid were to be the moderator of one debate? That would be more fair, though, to balance Wallace with his Fox News “cred”.

  154. 154.

    Kathleen

    @Karen S.: I totally agree. During the Bush years I listened exclusively to Black radio because I couldn’t tolerate the pro war God Bless America crap from white stations.

    I’m so glad you replied because I would love your opinion on the power and influence of Black radio today. I know it was essential during Civil Rights movement. My sense is traditional radio is not as influential today as it was in the past which could be incorrect but I would appreciate your take regarding Black radio. My dad was in radio for years so I like to keep up with what’s going on in the industry.

  155. 155.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    @Baud:

    I’ve always thought seven was suspicious. I mean, one digit but two syllables? C’mon, people, read the signs.

    Right? And what’s with ten, huh? Two digits but only one syllable?

    I think ten and seven swapped places with each other just to fuck with everyone’s head.

  156. 156.

    Wapiti

    @Kay: This. I don’t need to see a drug test. I’d like the two candidates’ height, in their stocking feet, to be measured on TV. “Dr.” Ronnie Johnson told us that Trump was 6’3″. He probably accepted Trump’s lie, but he likely chose to be the toady, not the physician.

  157. 157.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: like Bartleby the Scrivener.  It starts a little “off,” and then he is living in your business.  You can’t muster the realization it’s happening or the energy to make it stop.

  159. 159.

    jonas

    @Betty Cracker:

    Let’s hope the moderators don’t screen all the real people out.

    Lol. They love to bring in “undecided” voters for these things — which in our current moment means either “galactic moron” or “so clueless about politics/civics you probably shouldn’t even be voting.”

  160. 160.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Morzer: “Two roads diverged in a yellow wood.

    The roads are total losers.  Diverged is a fake, loser word.  The wood is fake wood.  I’m tremendous bigly, and not broke-ass Soviet shitpile mobster conman.  You’re all total losers.  I weigh 239 pounds of awesome!”

  161. 161.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    Donald J. Trump:

    Joe Biden just announced that he will not agree to a Drug Test. Gee, I wonder why?

    Because he literally does not give a piss about what you want, Benedict Donald.

    No one does.

  162. 162.

    jonas

    @Warblewarble: I know! Whatever he’s taking is so powerful that even as he lies comatose in his basement in Delaware, he appears to be out giving stump speeches and interviews up and down the midwest.

  164. 164.

    Soprano2

    To be fair to Dowd, which reporter is up to the challenge of covering Trump? Daniel Dale, perhaps a couple more, and that’s it. After over 4 years most of them still haven’t figured out how to cover him correctly. It was nice this morning on “Morning Edition” to hear the female Democratic debate expert refer to how Donald Trump just can’t tell the truth, and she said it more than once. Tellingly, the Republican expert didn’t contradict her on this, because he couldn’t. How sad is it that it’s become a widely-accepted fact that the President of the United States “just can’t tell the truth”? How far down Trump has pulled our standards. It’s appalling that 40% of our citizens accept this as being OK.

    I think Biden is going to have to do a lot of ignoring Trump and just answering the questions he’s asked. Trump will try to rattle him and get him derailed. The upside is that it must be easy for Biden to rehearse, because Trump has become so predictable. In 2015-2016 his schtick was new and different; now it’s entirely predictable and has become boring. I also think it’s hilarious how these press people keep talking about the debate as if Trump has some kind of strategy. Trump is going to come out and babble the same crap he always says, and mostly won’t even answer the questions he is asked.

  165. 165.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: I did get through that but it wasn’t painful to me at all for some reason. I felt like she was an old wise friend who was trying to comfort me. I loved it. I was reading the book on a flight and a young woman leaned across the aisle and asked sorrowfully, “How was it?” I thought she was going to cry. She was sweet.

  166. 166.

    Soprano2

    If there were actually drugs that made people with dementia sharper, they’d be hawked non-stop on late night TV. It’s such a ridiculous charge, why can’t the press just point that out? They fail us every day.

  167. 167.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    @Immanentize: I was so certain this sentence was going to be followed by “the booze and the weed.”

    Wasn’t that the sequel to Scott Fitzgerald’s “The Beautiful and the Damned”?

  168. 168.

    Kathleen

    @JPL: It was worth it for many reasons.  The actor who played Trump was so good it was scary. While watching his portrayal I found myself thinking how happy it made me to know his minions had to put up with him and they must be miserable.

  171. 171.

    TS (the original)

    @Betty Cracker:

    Let’s hope the moderators don’t screen all the real people out.

    I’m already seeing a row of “undecided” voters waiting to ask how Biden will achieve all his goals without increasing the deficit.

  172. 172.

    Kathleen

    @Geminid: I’m hoping. She has been focusing mostly on health care as her background is in public health and is a cancer survivor. Rethugs are now playing the socialism card. The ads are cheesy and reek of desperation.

  173. 173.

    TS (the original)

    @Soprano2:

    Can you imagine the howls of outrage on the right if, for example, Joy Reid were to be the moderator of one debate?

    The moderators have been chosen to appeal to trump, not because of any other reason/skills.

  175. 175.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Soprano2:

    If there were actually drugs that made people with dementia sharper, they’d be hawked non-stop on late night TV. 

    Everyone knows late night TV is claimed by dick pills and reverse mortgages.

  176. 176.

    Jeffro

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: that’s great!  If they’re fighting hard just to hold on in OH, they’re (obviously) not able to do much to keep WI, PA, MI, etc.

    I’m excited.  Biden has a better chance of hitting 400 EVs than trumpov does of eking out any sort of EC win.

  180. 180.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker: The first is a complete lack of objectivity. Trump could come out and read my favorite poem, and I would find the spectacle repulsive and offensive.

    It’s not my favorite poem, but just the thought of trumpov stumbling through the first dozen lines of “Jabberwocky” is giving me giggles.

    (try to picture it folks and tell me I’m wrong ;)

  181. 181.

    Gin & Tonic

    @mrmoshpotato: Am I the only one who is really depressed by seeing Tom Selleck hawking reverse mortgages and Joe Willie Namath touting Medicare supplement plans?

  183. 183.

    Jeffro

    @prostratedragon: great examples

    Once Biden/Harris are in office, I hope they send the forensic accountants here there and everywhere.  The skimming these people have been doing must be astronomical.

  184. 184.

    Soprano2

    @TS (the original): The moderators have been chosen to appeal to trump, not because of any other reason/skills.

    Yeah, but this is the template of the debate moderators going back as far as I can remember. Conservatives are portrayed as being regular, moderate people, while liberals are way out there and cannot possibly fairly moderate a debate.

  186. 186.

    Jeffro

    @mrmoshpotato: that’s great advice re: the plastic cup!

    I might get one of my son’s Nerf dart guns and keep it handy tonight.  Actually, I’m definitely doing that.

  187. 187.

    SFAW

    @mrmoshpotato:

    And I shouldn’t have subjected myself to the 2016 shitshow either.

    I did, but mainly to watch if — when he was stalking her around the stage — Hillary kicked the Liar-in-Chief’s-to-be teeny-tiny balls into his empty cranium. But she probably figured she needed pinpoint accuracy/aim, and wasn’t worth the risk of missing.

  188. 188.

    SFAW

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Am I the only one who is really depressed by seeing Tom Selleck hawking reverse mortgages and Joe Willie Namath touting Medicare supplement plans?

    On the one hand: sheeee-it.

    Om the other hand, it beats watching Joe Willie trying to hit on Suzy Kolber on MNF.

  190. 190.

    Kay

    Ashley Parker
    @AshleyRParker
    · 11h
    When news of Brad Parscale’s police altercation broke Sun night, the campaign first released a supportive statement. But after Trump was briefed on the incident, they updated it — using Parscale’s personal struggles as a cudgel to attack Trump’s opponents.

    Parscale’s personal struggles seem to include the fact that he “hits” his wife, according to her statement and the bruising the officers observed, which I suspect is the real reason the sleazy Trump hires misrepresented what happened and attacked Trump’s opponents.
    I feel like the domestic violence deserves at least a mention when we’re all pulling for Mr. Parscale to overcome his “struggles”.
    Will there be a time when we stop coddling these people? Why are they deserving of this constant effort to make them less sleazy than they are? Is it because putting them in power reflects poorly on the country and we can’t handle that?

  191. 191.

    germy

    Project Veritas offers further evidence of the need to ban ballot harvesting. It's not a partisan issue. It's been abused to help both R & D candidates, including in North Carolina & California. Please help by telling your congressional rep to pass our bipartisan bill HR8285. https://t.co/AJequVVrzc— Tulsi Gabbard ? (@TulsiGabbard) September 29, 2020

    You’re making those of us who figured out you were a fraud months ago really proud! https://t.co/2AuqagwSTP— Roy Edroso (@edroso) September 29, 2020

  192. 192.

    Ken

    @Gin & Tonic: At least Selleck still acts (“Blue Bloods”).  I’ve been watching more TV lately for the usual reason, and find it remarkable how many networks are sustained entirely by ads for Medicare supplements, with a sprinkling of “ask your doctor about medication X” and “incontinence supplies shipped discreetly”.

  193. 193.

    SFAW

    @prostratedragon:

    New regulations would allow liquified natural gas on freight trains running through towns and cities,

    What’s the problem? It’s not as if anything could go worng.

  194. 194.

    Jinchi

    Wow.

    Apparently the reason the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case only recommended a single charge unrelated to her death is because that was the only charge put before them.

  195. 195.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I’m trying to process this. Is it possible he just misspoke? Maybe he’s saying he supports the LGBTQ community. Can he really be coming out to Fox’s morning people?

     

    Eric Trump: "The LGBT community, they are incredible. And you should see how they come out in full force for my father every single day. I'm part of that community, and we love the man." pic.twitter.com/hl51ftW8l2— Bobby Lewis (@revrrlewis) September 29, 2020

  196. 196.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    using Parscale’s personal struggles as a cudgel to attack Trump’s opponents.

    The Party of Personal Responsibility, example 12 gazillion

  198. 198.

    Gin & Tonic

    My dear wife reports that her mother, 96 years old, got her absentee ballot in the mail yesterday and wants it in the mail today. She said “mark off all Democrats.”

    Her running commentary when Donaldo comes on the tube is, how shall I say, colorful.

  201. 201.

    Amir Khalid

    We do know that Biden will show up for for these debates vastly more prepared. We also know that Trump has been blowing off his debate prep, and is counting on the power of his own awesomeness to win the night. Biden will make the case to voters looking for competent governance that he takes the president’s job seriously and is prepared. Trump will make the case to his fellow Deplorables that he is the bigliest, most Deplorable president ever.

    My own sense is that the debates won’t change anything, unless Joe Biden has a very unlikely catastrophe; that is how he might lose. Nothing Trump can say will hurt him with his base, who will happily ignore/excuse any stupid or vile Trump utterance; he cannot lose. The outcome will be asymmetrical in that sense.

  203. 203.

    PJ

    Slightly OT:  I live in Brooklyn, NY.  Yesterday I received my absentee ballot, which was correctly addressed to me, but the absentee ballot envelope, which the ballot goes into, and which itself goes into the return envelope, has the name and address of someone who lives around the corner from me.  If I were to sign the absentee ballot envelope and return it, my ballot would be rejected.

    The BoE is aware of the problem, which is supposedly widespread in Brooklyn and supposedly is having the vendor send out new, correctly addressed ballots, but how many people will sign and return the first absentee ballot envelope without looking at the return address and have their ballot rejected?  And how does crap like this continue to happen in a state and country that has been having regular elections for over 240 years?

  205. 205.

    hueyplong

    @Gin & Tonic: Fifteen years from now some of us will see Matthew McConaughey taking up the reverse mortgage spokesmanship.

    Make your futures bet now before the odds change.

  209. 209.

    SFAW

    @mrmoshpotato:

    That was one debate.  What’s your excuse for watching the other two?

    A boy can dream, can’t he? As I’ve said before, I kept hoping she would turn around and say to him “Back the fuck off, you fat piece of shit, or I’ll hit you so hard I’ll kill your whole family.” Although, you’re right, he didn’t stalk her in the other two.

    Maybe I was watching as a substitute for 1000 Ave Marias and 1000 Pater nosters? Of course, as I’m an atheist …

  211. 211.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Amir Khalid: The Twitters are saying that Eric was quoting some LGBT person of his acquaintance.

    I suspect it’s a Canadian girlfriend, but I’ve been called cynical.

  214. 214.

    germy

    @Just One More Canuck:  The worst for me is to see Martin Sheen shredding his own dignity for whatever it is he’s selling

    It seems to be some sort of app that we’re supposed to wave in front of a pharmacist and then suddenly our prescription meds are cheaper.

  216. 216.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: Accurate reporting takes time and work.  Too many news outfits can’t or won’t spend the time and money to do that, and if they did they’re convinced that their customers don’t care and wont read/watch it.

    Trying to turn the news into a profit center killed it (except for a few places like ProPublica).  And we’re worse off for it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  218. 218.

    Karen S.

    @Kathleen: I’m not sure how influential Black radio is nowadays with younger Black folks. Like younger people who any race/ethnicity in this country, I imagine they don’t listen much to radio stations (terrestrial, online or satellite). But I can say that I still remember that over the past few election cycles on Election Day, especially in Presidential election years, that deejays on Black stations were vocal in encouraging (exhorting) listeners to stay in line, no matter how long lines were at their polling places. Just keep waiting because voting was/is that important and that the people who came before us had fought long and hard for our right to vote. I remember being a bit surprised when I first heard them do that several years ago.

  222. 222.

    mrmoshpotato

    @SFAW: I can only imagine what the Trump trash would say if she talked about killing, but yeah, I wish she could’ve done something about the creeper stalking around the stage.

  223. 223.

    Jinchi

    @Kay: Parscale’s personal struggles seem to include the fact that he “hits” his wife

    This is a disturbingly common struggle among Trump hires. I’m starting to think it’s actually one of the things Trump looks for when recruiting people.

  224. 224.

    raven

    @SFAW:  Namath, 75, detailed how he would spend days drunk and that it was a mortifying interview with ESPN’s Suzy Kolber in 2003 — in which he said he wanted to kiss her — that drove him to seek treatment.
    “I saw it as a blessing in disguise,” Namath wrote of the incident. “I had embarrassed my friends and family and could not escape that feeling. I haven’t had a drink since. …That shame is where I found my strength to deal with the addiction. With the help of my recovery, I learned that I had used my divorce as an excuse to go back to drinking. That knowledge made me a stronger individual.”

  225. 225.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Heh, nice catch here:

    Brad Simpson
    @bradleyrsimpson
    Abraham Lincoln paid 3x more in taxes in 1864 than Donald Trump in 2016. Not more as a share of his income. More in taxes. Lincoln paid $1981.67 in federal taxes on a salary of $25,000 in 1864-1865. Trump paid $750 in 2016, about one-third what Lincoln paid, but 151 years later.

  227. 227.

    SFAW

    @mrmoshpotato:

    The “kill your whole family” line is from Diner. Naturally, since RWMFs are screeching infant snowflakes, I guess she might have used slightly different wording.

  229. 229.

    Immanentize

    @Jinchi: of course it was.  I don’t care about seeing the “evidence” they reviewed.  I want to see the charge the AG gave them before voting.

    PS. This information only helps the one defendant who was charged “It’s a frame job!”

  231. 231.

    Sloane Ranger

    @mrmoshpotato: If House of Commons procedures were used that would be,

    Mr Speaker, the Right Honourable Member for QAnon is a

     

     

    “traitorous, orange, broke-ass conman!

    I ask him why he has not yet fled

    “ to Moscow already!”

  234. 234.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Mousebumples:

     I’ll watch clips but I don’t think I could watch that much of Trump without getting ill…

    If only we could watch a debate in which Trump is played by Sarah Cooper and voiced by Billy West doing Zapp Brannigan.

  236. 236.

    BC in Illinois

    @Kathleen:

    I did get through [Hillary Clinton’s What Happened] but it wasn’t painful to me at all for some reason. I felt like she was an old wise friend who was trying to comfort me.

    That’s how the book struck me as well. Think of the tone of voice the wise old friend, when you go up to her after a tragedy hits and ask “What happened?”  And she tells you how she got through it.

    I think that part of the reason that I appreciated the book was that –at the time, in 2017– I was truly wondering how Hillary was doing, how is she handling it. And she tells you the kind of resources she could fall back on: friends, walks, T.S.Eliot, Maya Angelou, Henri Nouwen, Anne Lamott, and a Pope Francis “Ted Talk.”

    Her analysis of Trump was/is right on, but that’s not the book’s lasting strength. It was/is a more personal book, from an accomplished friend — the “wise old friend” — who was there when the tragedy happened and who tells us what happened and how she got through it — not only intact but strong.

  238. 238.

    narya

    I think there’s less need to worry about him stalking Joe, because I don’t think he can maintain his balance that well or that long. but you all will have to tell me, because i cannot watch it. Can. Not.

  240. 240.

    Immanentize

    I will here admit my own personal debate fantasy:

    Wallace:  Mr. President, the New York Times reported that you owe more than 400 million….

    Trump (interrupting): Fake news.

    Biden: No fake!  You’re the fake!

  241. 241.

    SFAW

    @raven:

    Thanks. It’s too bad the MNF thing happened, and I’m sad about his alcoholism, but I’m glad he’s staying sober.

    One of my minor regrets is that I never got to see him play when he had good knees. [I was relatively young when the Jets signed him, and I didn’t follow college ball in those days.]

  244. 244.

    L85NJGT

    These fucking people…..

    Pro-Life Senator Joni Ernst Says There’s a ‘Very Minimal’ Chance Supreme Court Will Overturn Roe v. Wade

    Her internals must be dire.

  246. 246.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Cameron:

    I still think her best response to the stalking nonsense would have been to ask him if he needed a potty break. 

    “Did you go boom boom, you manbaby?”

  248. 248.

    Immanentize

    I am pretty wound up by the election, the Supreme Court crap, work, the debate….

    I think I will have to start rereading, “A Glass of Blessings” by Barbara Pym again (yes, rereading again)

  254. 254.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I got an email yesterday from Mike Holmgren, the former GB coach*, asking me to vote out Trump.  An NFL coach!!!  The Wisconsin Dems are killing it.

    *He coached the Packers to their first NFL championship since the glory days of Lombardi (Blessed be His Name).

  260. 260.

    Ken

    @L85NJGT: Pro-Life Senator Joni Ernst Says There’s a ‘Very Minimal’ Chance Supreme Court Will Overturn Roe v. Wade

    Then what’s the point of voting for Republicans, if they can’t even guarantee overturning RvW after putting six justices on the court?

  262. 262.

    Ruckus

    @Kay: 
    Well, the media is mostly owned by conservatives, leaning or bent in half. They have learned to make good money by bullshitting about politics. They have helped to convince a segment of the population that everyone is out to get them if they don’t believe their bullshit. At some point it becomes a circular firing squad. Hopefully that time is obvious and now. Given the polling I’d say it is.

  263. 263.

    Anya

    @Baud: Van Jones: He stood there for 90 minutes and looked presidential

    Michael Moore: What you can’t glean from the debate is how enthusiasm for Trump in swing states is off the charts. Also too, Biden is going to lose Michigan.

    Amanda Carpenter: Democrats are making a mistake if they think debate matters to Trump voters.

    Maggie Haberman: source close to the campaign told me the president is very happy with his performance. He feels confident that he exposed how Hunter Biden made money from China, Russia and is linked to Ukraine corruption.

    All pundits: ….but his base is so loyal.

  265. 265.

    germy

    If Biden wins I demand 2.5 years minimum of endless profiles of suburbanites, urbanites, college kids, churchgoers etc profiling “the Biden voter.” Who are they? What do they think? How are they so endlessly fascinating? Why can’t Republicans seem to connect with them? Etc etc

    — Oliver Willis (@owillis) September 29, 2020

    “Here are Rolanda and Sophie, two middle aged black women. They led the charge that led to a political revolution, and we MUST understand it…”

    “I’m at the local Trader Joe’s to profile the Biden voter who created the shock heard round the world…”

    — Oliver Willis (@owillis) September 29, 2020

  267. 267.

    TS (the original)

    @PJ:

    The BoE is aware of the problem, which is supposedly widespread in Brooklyn and supposedly is having the vendor send out new, correctly addressed ballots, but how many people will sign and return the first absentee ballot envelope without looking at the return address and have their ballot rejected? And how does crap like this continue to happen in a state and country that has been having regular elections for over 240 years?

    And how many people will return the first ballot & then the second. Who is the vendor? Someone who wants trump to have examples of people voting twice?

  268. 268.

    germy

    @Kay:

    Didn’t Clint Eastwood try to turn him into a conservative hero fighting the endless red tape of uncaring government bureaucrats?

  269. 269.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Immanentize: Heard on the radio that there’s a substantial increase in COVID-19 cases in, in their words “certain neighborhoods in Brooklyn, and areas of Orange and Rockland counties.” To New Yorkers, or NY-adjacent people, this is very clear, but why can’t they specify that all the outbreaks are in the Hasidic communities?

  270. 270.

    Anya

    @germy: I hate this so much because it’s targeting immigrants who don’t speak the language and elderly or people with mobility issues.

     

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Maybe they’re so desperate that Trump ordered Eric to come out to appeal to the LGBTQ. Next, maybe Javanka will adopt a Latina kid and a black kid. Wouldn’t put it past that gang.

  271. 271.

    germy

    NYT broke Trump’s taxes story. Now WaPo is all over it.

    Meanwhile, the taxes story and its import is nowhere on WSJ’s homepage.

    It reminded me of a media analysis I first read some 20 years ago: pic.twitter.com/cpAoZdU9DN

    — Jose Antonio Vargas (@joseiswriting) September 29, 2020

    The Wall Street Journal is read by the people who run the country.

    The Washington Post is read by people who think they run the country.

    The New York Times is read by people who think they should run the country, and who are very good at crossword puzzles.

  275. 275.

    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    @debbie:  Yes, I agree Joe should mention what a problem the abuse of prescription drugs like Adderall is. Multiple times!

  276. 276.

    cain

    @Kay:

    Absolutely correct – hanging around my girlfriend’s friends – they are all quite religious as is my gf. Even those in Africa are quite religious. I quite enjoy hanging out with my gf’s friends. But yeah – reporters find some kind of set conversations about things – and maybe that is in fact white power in action. If we talk about black people it’s always about law and order issues – curious.

  278. 278.

    Amir Khalid

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’ve been wondering about that. I understand the Hasidim are very very conservative. But in Judaism (as in Islam) you don’t have to choose between observance and your life; nothing stops them from masking up, or social distancing, or not gathering in a synagogue when it’s unsafe. Why won’t they take precautions?

  279. 279.

    Immanentize

    @JPL: Sorry to burst that fine thought bubble, but I don’t think we know anything about Ivanka’s taxes.  I suspect she will be the last charged as 1) she has nothing to do with Trump’s filings and, 2) my guess is given the Lebovitch group she runs with, Jarad is responsible for the taxes.  Now there is a guy genetically predisposed for felony convictions.

  282. 282.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @JPL:

    trump is bringing guests to the debate to intimidate Joe.    I guess Tara is on the list, but I wonder who else.

    Tara Reade is the “he’s taking performance-enhancing drugs!” of campaign stunt guests

  284. 284.

    Matt McIrvin

    @PJ: New York state seems to have a lot of election problems that just boil down to incompetence. I don’t really understand it.

    I noticed that my Massachusetts primary ballot had a (correct) pre-printed address label on the inner return envelope, but the instructions that came with it didn’t mention the possibility of such a label and just told you to write your address there. There was some potential for confusion there for someone trying to be obsessively careful and assuming potentially malicious interference from poll observers (not that there’s a lot of that in this state, though it’s not unknown).

  285. 285.

    germy

    @Matt McIrvin:  I always felt the NY state ballots were poorly designed.  I thought maybe the problem was me.

    Then I saw a ballot from a different state (I don’t remember which one) and it was clear and easy to understand at a glance.

  287. 287.

    Patricia Kayden

    Really alarming news – NYC’s test positivity rate is over 3 percent today – tripled in the last few days. If we are at over 3 percent for the next 7 days all public schools will automatically close. This is a big deal— Eliza Shapiro (@elizashapiro) September 29, 2020

  288. 288.

    chopper

    @Kay:

    even on this very site. back around trump’s infamous physical(s) with the guy, and the results, we had a thread here where all us jackals were calling jackson a lying sack, and silverman took such offense to the comments he deleted the whole thread.

    of course, us jackals were right.

  289. 289.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Amir Khalid: I don’t know and will not speculate. But the same phenomenon was observed very recently in Ukraine, where one branch of Hasidim travel to worship at or near the burial site of their Rebbe in the town of Uman (particularly for Rosh Hashanah.) They clashed repeatedly with the local authorities over their refusal to adhere to public-health guidelines.

  291. 291.

    Patricia Kayden

    @PJ: That’s ridiculous. I’m especially surprised this is happening in a blue state. It’s as if we’re a Banana Republic.

  293. 293.

    catclub

    @Old Dan and Little Ann:

    She’s a nervous wreck about tonight’s debate. I’m ready to watch drumph embarrass himself and the country. Fuckem.

    I want to watch to see Joe do well. Which will correlate with trump not doing well.

     

    ETA: I don’t think Trump has a self-embarassment  (shame, guilt, conscience) function.

  294. 294.

    chopper

    @JPL:

    you’d think tara reade, but that’s not asshole enough for trump. think bigger. think ‘pay some dude to get dressed and made up to look like biden’s dead son’ – level asshole.

  295. 295.

    Princess

    @JPL: Given that everything is projection with Trump, I guess we know now that he will not only be taking drugs, he’l be wearing a wire. Good luck to him. I think you’d need to be really sharp to use a wire relaying answers to you correctly.

  296. 296.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Amir Khalid: One of the people I follow on Twitter is a rabbi who keeps emphasizing this, that there is a strong Jewish tradition that interprets Torah to prioritize preserving life over any religious observance. But she seems frustrated that there are people who won’t listen. Some seem convinced that they’ll have some kind of miraculous protection… even though it’s also possible to cite plenty of authorities specifically forbidding relying on miracles.

  297. 297.

    catclub

    @hueyplong: Fifteen years from now some of us will see Matthew McConaughey taking up the reverse mortgage spokesmanship.

     

    While also pushing the all-electric Lincoln Continental?

  299. 299.

    catclub

    @Matt McIrvin: even though it’s also possible to cite plenty of authorities specifically forbidding relying on miracles.

     

    i was thinking of the guy who said that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.  Also some guy who said not to test God.

  300. 300.

    SFAW

    @chopper:

    you’d think tara reade, but that’s not asshole enough for trump. think bigger. think ‘pay some dude to get dressed and made up to look like biden’s dead son’ – level asshole.

    It’s a little depressing that “Oh, no, he’d never do something THAT asshole-ish” is not even considered as a response.

  303. 303.

    bluefoot

    @John S.:

    Your friend might as go all out and smoke a joint whilst listening to Pink Floyd and listening to the debates.  :)  (Takes me back to my youth…)

    I probably won’t be watching the debates since Trump is like nails on a chalkboard for me, and all the media bloviating (as opposed to actual analysis) is even worse.  But I would like to hear how each deals with each other during the debate.

  304. 304.

    Kay

    @chopper:

    I’m a proud girther. If he’s 239 pounds I’m a ballerina. He also lies about his height, which is easily observable when he stands next to people who are taller than him and don’t lie.

    Girtherism is like birtherism except it’s true.

  306. 306.

    catclub

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: They thought Biden might win Ohio.

     

    Important if true. also Fitzmas!

     

    around 2017 there were various articles saying Ohio has gotten MUCH more conservative, and is out of reach for democrats. Doesn’t really explain why Sherrod brown is senator.

  308. 308.

    cain

    @Soprano2:

    I think Biden is going to have to do a lot of ignoring Trump and just answering the questions he’s asked. Trump will try to rattle him and get him derailed. The upside is that it must be easy for Biden to rehearse, because Trump has become so predictable. In 2015-2016 his schtick was new and different; now it’s entirely predictable and has become boring. I also think it’s hilarious how these press people keep talking about the debate as if Trump has some kind of strategy. Trump is going to come out and babble the same crap he always says, and mostly won’t even answer the questions he is asked.

    Joe should probably be prepared for the stupid dominance handshake that he’ll probably try to do when first greeting him. Moron.

  316. 316.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    The online portal for checking PA voter registration and mail-in ballot status appears to be down the last couple days.

    I’ve been checking it fairly frequently since requesting my ballot, but over the last couple days it’s gotten completely unresponsive. You type in the info, hit the Send button, and after about 30 seconds you get… nothing. No ballot info. No registration info.

    I’m assuming this is because an overwhelming number of people using the system and checking as I am checking. Because if I do finally get a response after trying 20 times, everything eventually looks OK.

    Still no physical ballot yet.

  317. 317.

    JPL

    Just saw this on twitter

    Mark Penn’s Harvard Poll survey results closely mirror what Trump campaign is publicly projecting in its own spin: “Voters see Trump as working hard in the final stretch and believe the press is going hard on Trump and easy on Biden as they head into the debates.”

    Well just bless her heart!   Guess who tweeted this..

  319. 319.

    piratedan

    saw someone report an entry from Nell Scoville(?) that suggested that Biden should start the debate by putting down a tin cup in front of Trump and toss in a quarter before he speaks…

  320. 320.

    cain

    @SFAW:

    What’s the problem? It’s not as if anything could go worng.

    Nothing of course – because the only housing that happens along railroad lines are all poor people or poor neighborhoods. :P

  321. 321.

    Anya

    @JPL: If a Trump kid is going to flip it’ll beD coked out of his mind Don Jr. and Eric, not ivanka. I Ivanka is so similar to her dad that she believes their bullshit and thinks everything can be solved with a good spin and marketing strategy. As we speak, she’s calling various reporters trying sell them on how she’s the awesomest, most sensible, smartest Trump.

  322. 322.

    Kathleen

    @Karen S.:  Wow. Powerful. Thank you for responding. I am an old so I wasn’t even thinking about young people but I’m sure you’re right. Like I said my dad was in radio in its glory days and and I feel sad about its waning influence with young people. Although vinyl has come back so old school terrestrial radio may be reborn. I don’t care for most white stations because they’re cookie cutter. The station I listen to offers so much more variety and creativity.

  323. 323.

    Kay

    Lis Power
    @LisPower1
    · 1h
    Fox’s ‘news-side’, including Bret Baier, are very much with a straight face implying that Biden should agree to have his ears checked before the debate for listening devices.
    This is fucking absurd.

    It is hysterical to watch the multi-millionaire Fox news personalities grow increasingly angry that none of their propaganda has worked.
    If they fail at electing Trump they all get fired and replaced with younger clones. Everything is on the line, folks!

  324. 324.

    Anya

    @JPL: does he think anyone is dumb enough to fall for that kind of a juvenile acts? I mean, Joe is a politician who’s used to being attacked. Why does he think thins works on him? I don’t even think there is anyone who will make Joe that shook.

  328. 328.

    Ken

    @cain: That will come as a surprise to the many affluent suburbs of Chicago through which the Union Pacific, BNSF, Norfolk Southern, CSX, and a few dozen other railroads pass.

  329. 329.

    Brachiator

    @Jeffro:

    I’d encourage everyone to watch, as I doubt there will be a second or third debate

    I guess the only reason to watch would be to see if anything were said that might lead fence sitters to vote for Biden. While I hope that happens, I don’t care about those people.

    So I’m not going to watch. Not going to read commentary. Might take a look at news stories tomorrow. I know who I’m voting for and why.

    I hope Biden mops the floor with Trump, but I am tired of the Orange Failure. Tired of his lies. Tired of his games.

  330. 330.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Kay: As you’ve noted before, they keep having to come up with lies to cover lies to cover lies to cover lies. None of the lies ever made sense, but they have to get increasingly outlandish.

    So I guess the current theory is that Trump (who has a history of lying and cheating) must be taken seriously when he accuses his opponent of cheating. Because something something and it is an outrage that Biden is cheating this much.

    @Brachiator: I’ll read some of the commentary here and some of what I see on FB, but that’s about it. I have a late worknight tonight and will be working through the whole thing.

  331. 331.

    Kathleen

    @Immanentize: Radley Balko wrote detailed analysis in WaPo last week in which he debunks the myths that have taken hold or more clearly explains what happened. If I weren’t on my phone I’d provide link. Title is Correcting the Misinformation About Breonna Taylor and it was published on 9-24.

  332. 332.

    catclub

    @Kay: Fox’s ‘news-side’, including Bret Baier, are very much with a straight face implying that Biden should agree to have his ears checked before the debate for listening devices.

     

    The wackaloon I encountered ( at a barber shop! who knew?) was convinced that Trump should demand the Supreme Court declare Biden mentally incompetent.  The misunderstanding of laws and jurisdictions is staggering.

  333. 333.

    catclub

    @Kay: It is hysterical to watch the multi-millionaire Fox news personalities grow increasingly angry that none of their propaganda has worked.

     

    Someone pointed out that the election desk in 2012 leading Karl Rove to where the analysis of the count was taking place, and forcing him to recognize that Ohio was NOT coming in for Romney, was a big deal.

    And it likely will not happen again. Trust in democratic processes there is pretty low.

  334. 334.

    Kay

    Jon Ward
    @jonward11
    ·1h
    “I find it hard to believe that Donald Trump wins Ohio,” said former Ohio GOP Chair
    @KevinDeWine
    — who predicted a Trump win in 2016 — on a recent episode of the Ohio-focused podcast “Pinot and Politics With
    @ChrisRedfern419
    ”

    I predict Kevin DeWine is going to be set upon by a screaming mob of Trump supporters.

    I had a funny convo with a Trump supporting lawyer here. I know him well so I brought up the tax returns and he said “now that he has released the returns…”
    He has released. Jesus. They’re hopeless.

  335. 335.

    Kay

    @JPL:

    Maggie is going to be fine, though. There will be a multi-million dollar book contract.

    The Times reporter who did such a crap job covering Clinton in ’16 got a book AND a tv series.

    I swear to God. It’s an absolute racket.

    Reporters at the Toledo Blade make something like 15 dollars an hour if you change salary to hourly and the .1 of the 1% in journnalism make millions. It’s a broken model. It’s like when we started looking at CEO pay and then wage stagnation- “I think I found where the money went!” :)

  336. 336.

    germy

    @catclub:  Someone pointed out that the election desk in 2012 leading Karl Rove to where the analysis of the count was taking place,

    That reminds me.  I saw Megyn Kelly on TV last night, plugging her new… podcast!  She was saying how great it is having a podcast, that she’s finally free and unfettered.  But she seemed a bit frantic, not the usual calm and composed Megyn, and it looked like she was broadcasting from her basement rec room.

    Her first guest?  Glenn Greenwald, who used the opportunity to complain that he’s been banned from MSNBC.

  338. 338.

    Brachiator

    @Morzer:

    I wonder how often we are going to hear about the Hunter Biden Cuban Antifa Revolutionary Workers Brigade.

    Possibly bigly. Trump can’t attack Biden’s integrity directly, so the Republicans have to try to slime Biden and hope that some of it rubs off on Biden.

    Trump may also harp on how he is fighting China for real Americans, while Biden is an agent of the Chinese government and also likes Chinese food.

  339. 339.

    JPL

    @Kay: I doubt that the next administration welcomes her with open arms.    It would be great to see them highlight local papers.  Maybe scoops go to them instead.

  340. 340.

    PJ

    @Matt McIrvin:

     

    @germy: I’ve never had a problem with the ballots themselves, but 20% of the mailed in ballots in the primary this summer were rejected, which is ridiculous.  The BoE has a policy not to count any absentee ballot that doesn’t have a postmark, but the Post Office did not mark many ballots (I don’t know if that was deliberate or not, but I often get regular mail that has not been postmarked), so even if they were received in time, they were not counted.  It’s infuriating.

  345. 345.

    germy

    @L85NJGT: maybe she can knock Deborah Norville out at Inside Edition.

    They asked for her analysis of the upcoming debate; what we should look for.  Her reply?  Watch for Biden’s dementia, and Trump’s lying.

    So the usual deep and impressively well researched opinions from Ms. Kelly.

  346. 346.

    Kay

    @germy:

    that he’s been banned from MSNBC.

    I wonder why they all think people are hugely interested in their careers. Couldn’t these conversations about who hires them or doesn’t hire them be conducted privately between them? Like everyone else does?

  348. 348.

    Brachiator

    @germy: 

    That reminds me.  I saw Megyn Kelly on TV last night, plugging her new… podcast!… 

    Her first guest?  Glenn Greenwald, who used the opportunity to complain that he’s been banned from MSNBC.

    Could there be two more irrelevant people?

  349. 349.

    Kathleen

    @catclub: Hey when the big haired bad boys Metals bands of the 80’s are now featured on infomercials for Time Life collection you know Gen X is crossing a geezer Rubicon (says the mother of a 47 year old)

  350. 350.

    The Moar You Know

    I had been hoping that the, erm, “unique” circumstances of our Virus-Plagued Year Of Our Lord 2020 would lead to the end of the presidential debate for all time. They are ludicrous at best and have become nothing but a platform, not for the promotion of a candidate, but for the promotion of media personalities.

    Another disappointment in a year chock-full of them.

  351. 351.

    Kathleen

    @catclub:  We have some office holders whom everybody loves. Sherrod is one of those. He’s held several position locally and nationally and I would bet his constituent services are epic. We had a local pol like that in Cincy. Went from City Council to County Commissioner, the first Dem to be elected since I believe the 60’s. He won in early 2000’s because everyone was pissed at all Republican commissioners because of Benagals stadium fiasco. Everyone loved and respected him. One of his biggest backers was the Republican mayor of Sharonville. He had struggled with serious health issues for about 15 years but kept working. He died this year.

  354. 354.

    Geminid

    No one knows how tonight’s debate will go, so there is abundant speculation. One interesting take I heard was that Biden would speak to the moderator, and the audience, but pretty much ignore trump. The idea being that this would rattle the Biden’s narcissistic opponent. I’ll be interested to see Biden’s tactics.         And trump’s “preparation” is deficient. His news conferences are incoherent, and his rally speeches are rambling rants. Have Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani squared him up? As Brent Terhune would say, “Ah don’t thank so!”

  356. 356.

    Barbara

    @germy: You know, the sense of entitlement for the Glenn Greenwalds of the world, that it is an unfairness personal to him that MSNBC doesn’t invite him on anymore, never ceases to amaze me.  What is the difference between being “banned” from MSNBC from just never being invited back?  Looking at it that way, most of the world has been “banned” from MSNBC, not to mention the major networks, CNN, Fox News and on and on.  Anonymity and being foreclosed from spouting your opinions to millions of viewers: Yeah Glenn, it’s a heavy burden but most of the world copes.

  357. 357.

    Matt McIrvin

    @germy: Until recently, Northeastern blue states have not been in the vanguard when it comes to election access and voting reform. I think the uncompetitive partisan landscape might have led to a certain amount of laziness (though you don’t see that so much out west). Massachusetts only got early voting and no-excuse mail voting in 2016, and even then it was only for the biggest elections–that changed this year through emergency legislation.

  358. 358.

    Barbara

    @Kathleen: It’s not like anyone said, “Glenn, from hereon out, you are banned.”  They just don’t invite him back and he calls it being banned because he is a self-entitled egotistical jerk who thinks his views are so obviously awesome anyone with any sense would always want him around.

  359. 359.

    catclub

    @Kathleen: actually “we no longer are interested in publicizing your insane opinions”  is not the same as being banned – except from GG’s point of View.

  362. 362.

    germy

    @Kathleen:  He says he was banned.

    Basically, they’re just not interested in hearing what he has to say anymore.   But “banned” sounds more interesting.

  363. 363.

    The Moar You Know

     so old school terrestrial radio may be reborn.

    @Kathleen: Not without a massive change in how licenses are allocated, sold and granted.  Right now, if you want to get into a small rural station with limited range you’re looking at a several million-dollar proposition.  Urban area?  Multiply all the cost and hassle by 10.

    A technological practice that could really open up most markets is to go to very-low power, very low range stations (5-10 miles).  When you have stations so powerful that they can take out three states on their allocated frequency, you lose a lot of choice on the radio dial.

  366. 366.

    CaseyL

    @raven:  @SFAW:

    Ol’ Broadway Joe has a special place in my heart:  At age 13, just after his big Super Bowl win, and even though I had no interest in football whatsoever, I developed a powerful crush on him.  (My weakness for Bad Boys goes back a long, long way). Well, I had to learn about the game, didn’t I?

    Broadway Joe made me a football fan.  Decades of cheering myself hoarse for favorite teams, pure enjoyment watching legends like Joe Montana play, absolute focus on how plays unfold… owe it all to Namath.

  367. 367.

    Kathleen

    @Barbara: I took typing one summer as well. Best thing I ever did. Helped me in college and got my foot in the door to managment position. I will spare you the quintessential Boomer “when I took typing dinosaurs passed out the carbon paper” boring story.

  368. 368.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: We can’t get them in sufficient numbers. There’s no history suggesting we can.

    2008, 2012 with respect to African-Americans.

    2018 with respect to younger adults.

  370. 370.

    Barbara

    @Kathleen: Well, by the time I took lessons, we were using an early IBM Selectric.  Now, of course, they call it “keyboarding” and it is essential for both genders.  If you are limited to hunting and pecking you are not nearly fast enough.

  371. 371.

    lowtechcyclist

    @The Moar You Know: If they reinstituted the old limitations on how many stations one entity could own or control, that would open things up a bit.  Also, simply allocating some more spectrum to conventional radio.

  372. 372.

    dnfree

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: then he thanks them for protecting our communities, so he probably thinks LGBT is another term for law enforcement??  Still not sure how he would be part of that community though.

  373. 373.

    Geminid

    @The Moar You Know: I am all for more local radio. I listen to the the regular hourly AM news a lot, and it’s not bad. Limited, in that when a congressional story comes up, I hear only a soundbite from say, McConnel and Schumer, or Pelosi and McCarthy. No analysis, but that could be a good thing.    And the local news coverage is valuable. Three liberal Charlottesville friends of mine are very much into podcasts, blogs, etc., and I think they discount “old” media. But when I asked them recently if they could name the Charlottesville police chief, they drew a blank. Nashall Brackney as been police chief for over a year. And policing has been a big issue in Charlottesvile the last few years. My friends care about policing, but they are just not that interested. They are certainly deeply informed in some areas, but they are as not broadly informed as they would be if they listened to local radio.

  374. 374.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @CaseyL: Interesting that you mention Joe Namath and Joe Montana together; they’re both from western Pennsylvania. Four other Hall of Fame QBs came from western PA (George Blanda, Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly).

  376. 376.

    Bill Arnold

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Ouch, just looked at the NYS COVID tracker and checked news:

    Most of Orange County’s new infections on Thursday were in the Hasidic community of Kiryas Joel, also known as the Town of Palm Tree. An updated map of the county’s total COVID-19 cases by municipality on Friday indicated that 41 of the 65 new positive tests were in Palm Tree.

    And that’s before the spike that will emerge from Yom Kippur. (Unless strong measures were taken, improbable given past behavior during the pandemic.)
    This is so much feeding into ancient anti-Semitic tropes. (e.g. Jews as scapegoats (ala René N.T. Girard) during the Plague.) Also, they’re being fed right-wing lies, and perhaps some of the social media stuff is being fed to them by anti-Semites (to kill them and make them look bad).

  377. 377.

    Bill Arnold

    @Amir Khalid:

    Why won’t they take precautions?

    The local (NYS) Hasidim I’ve interacted with are extremely Republican (going back at least 30 years), selectively consume right wing media, are strongly encouraged to vote as a bloc, and also share a lot of information via social media. They are just as susceptible to right wing disinformation re COVID as other Republicans that live in epistemologically closed information systems, though there is more bloc voting.
    Decent people, mostly, just beliefs infected by RW partisan politics and associated disinformation.

  378. 378.

    Matt McIrvin

    @catclub: A lot of things Jesus said were squarely in existing Jewish traditions, though there’s a lot of Christian talk designed to obscure this and portray his teachings as a more radical break.

  379. 379.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @germy: I remember in 2000 and the “butterfly ballot” debacle in FL, about how confusing the ballot was.  I was amazed they all hadn’t reviewed their sample ballot and figured it out.  Then I realized that this indicated not all states sent out sample ballots.  I live in CA and hadn’t realized that advantages our voters have.

  381. 381.

    J R in WV

    @Barbara:

    My mom made me take typing lessons in the summer after the 8th grade and I have only gotten faster with age!

    Me too… And I had to take it twice, first time I flunked, I was really fast, but made typos, and each typo was -5 points. Of course, now, the speed counts, because typos are easily corrected, as opposed to being black ink on white paper.

  382. 382.

    oatler.

    @SFAW:

    Better than the earlier ones where Selleck wore a power suit with hair and beard dyed black and loomed against a skyscraper backdrop.

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