Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

He really is that stupid.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

No one could have predicted…

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

“Squeaker” McCarthy

In my day, never was longer.

Let there be snark.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

I was promised a recession.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

T R E 4 5 O N

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Open Thread: Jill and Joe Live

Open Thread: Jill and Joe Live

by | 200 Comments

This post is in: , ,

Let’s get the bad taste of last night out of our mouths and bask in the enthusiasm, grace and compassion of our next President and First Lady.

Lots of smoke here today, but I’m going to try and walk the dogs. We all do better if we get out and about for at least 30 minutes.

Also:

Calling MomSense! Michelle Obama took up knitting during the pandemic.

Open thread

ETA: h/t to Mike J, here’s an all-day feed of the train stops.

Watch the train all-day here

Reader Interactions

200Comments

  2. 2.

    schrodingers_cat

    FWIW I don’t think yesterday’s debate performance did  the Orange Man any favors. He was behaving like an abusive spouse who is threatening violence because he has realized that the much abused spouse is going to leave him.

  4. 4.

    The Moar You Know

    FWIW I don’t think yesterday’s debate performance did  the Orange Man any favors. He was behaving like an abusive spouse who is threatening violence because he has realized that the much abused spouse is going to leave him.

    @schrodingers_cat:  Didn’t hurt him one bit with the 41-43% of Americans who think he is old, fat, wheezy Jesus come to save us all from the darkies.

    I think everyone else was pretty appalled.  But they’ve been appalled for a while now.

  5. 5.

    Nicole

    I am listening while I do postcards for Jon Ossoff.  Feeling relatively positive today.

    I posted on my FB page about how impressed I was with Biden taking Trump’s attack on Hunter’s cocaine habit as a chance to connect with other Americans who have faced addiction in their families, and my 8th grade Social Studies teacher liked it, which made my morning.  So funny, decades later, to still be pleased when my teacher thinks I said something smart. ;)

  6. 6.

    p.a.

    He’s in hock for $400+ million, the office is his only protection from state & fed charges including IIRC rape and insurance fraud, and he’s been pResident for 3+ years. Who will he sell us out to for the money and asylum?
    Or is he so fucking dumb he can’t deliver any useful info to our enemies???

  13. 13.

    Soprano2

    It kind of got lost in all the other crap, but Trump insulted everyone who went to a state college or university. I’ve been pointing that out on Facebook, because I have a lot of friends who went to the local state university.

  14. 14.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    “Union households in Ohio now favor Biden by eight points, 52 to 44 percent. In 2016, Trump carried that same constituency by 13 points, 54 to 41 percent, according to exit polling. That’s a whopping 21-point turnaround.”https://t.co/lJFMObrKYe

    — Josh Kraushaar (@HotlineJosh) September 30, 2020

  15. 15.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Down in the polls, the president needed to win back onetime supporters who agree with him on policy but dislike his temperament. He failed at that spectacularly on Tuesday night.

    — Josh Kraushaar

  16. 16.

    different-church-lady

    It was 137% humidity last night and I was sleepless for most of the time from 4am on, and my groggy eyes read that last tweet as, “I want a zoom meeting with Michelle Obama and we can all kill together!”

    And I’m like, “Yessssssssss…”

  21. 21.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @TaMara (HFG): More on the Beef & Barley soup…my version of InstantPot has a Meat/Stew setting and a Soup/Broth setting.  I haven’t used either of them.  Any thoughts on which I should use?

    On the smoky…yesterday’s air quality was pretty good…got in 8 fairly strenuous miles at Roxborough State Park and the views were good.  Made waking up to weird air color more depressing.

  23. 23.

    MomSense

    Thanks, Tamara!  The knitting world went  berserk yesterday!  This is such great news.  Michele is definitely invited to alll the knit alongs.

  25. 25.

    topclimber

    @schrodingers_cat: Do you think it would matter if we get rid of the nationalist-kleptocrat now befouling our White House and had a President with a modicum of moral authority to push back against India’s Hindu fascists?

    My hunch is it wouldn’t make much difference, but hopefully some.

  28. 28.

    trollhattan

    @Soprano2:

    “Back in the day” he might have gotten himself into a Cal or UCLA or Michigan, but today his 18YO self would have needed a LOT of donations from Fred Sr. to be even considered.

    I’m a little surprised Joe didn’t take the opportunity to note he’s had his transcripts hidden or scrubbed or NDA’d or whatever. They’re as missing as his taxes.

  35. 35.

    Marcopolo

    Count 2 more votes cast in MO.  Just returned from voting.  Steady small stream of folks voting in StL County.

  36. 36.

    schrodingers_cat

    @topclimber: It will definitely make a difference, they care very much how they are perceived by us (as in the United States). That’s why the BJP IT cell is spreading fake photoshopped memes about Joe Biden.

    I made this suggestion on Twitter when Kamala Harris was selected as the VP and got pilloried both by the Roses and the Saffron fascists.

  41. 41.

    SFAW

    @trollhattan:

    I’m a little surprised Joe didn’t take the opportunity to note he’s had his transcripts hidden or scrubbed or NDA’d or whatever. They’re as missing as his taxes.

    On line of attack that I wish occurred more frequently:

    “Donald Trump has been telling us for years how smart he is — a “stable genius,” no less! — and what a great businessman he is. If any of that were true, why does he keep hiding his tax returns? Why has he had his academic records sealed? Every piece of ‘evidence’ that could prove his claims, he’s fought to the death (so to speak) to keep them from becoming public; why is that? If I were a wealthy, honest businessman, I’d LOVE to show everyone. If I were a good student, why wouldn’t I show people? Why won’t Donnie? What’s he hiding? Maybe it’s not quite the way he says it is?”

  43. 43.

    James E Powell

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:

    What no one in pundit land will say is that Trump needed to win back the people who only voted for him because they refused to vote for Hillary Clinton. Whether it was a specific hatred of her or general misogyny, he would not have come close without them.

  45. 45.

    Villago Delenda Est

    We can knit while we observe the vermin of the Village getting their just desserts at the Place de la Concorde.

  47. 47.

    Ken

    @jonas: “try to reach out and appeal to people outside your neo-confederate, Q-anon-addled base” was clearly not part of his debate prep.

    Actually it was, but because his handlers forgot to preface it with “Mr President Trump sir”, it didn’t register with Trump.

  50. 50.

    Ken

    @RandomMonster: I want to know specifically what the parrots were saying!

    It was all British swear words, like “fodnockers”, “ruthingale”, “musquiddle”, and of course “orzee bunzee wot wot wot”.

  53. 53.

    laura

    @schrodingers_cat: This unbearable cruelty is so hard to fathom until I remember that men hate women. Not all, but far too may. Is this due to the caste system, is it due to the imbalance in gender due to selective abortion, some combination thereof? Is rape the only opportunity for sex, is gang rape a serial sport for all young men- or driven by caste? Is murder part of the act of sexual expression or to cover the crime? I do not know nearly enough about India and the persistence of caste bit do know enough about the world and how women are viewed by men in society and it seems like misogyny is baked in from the beginning of time til today.

  56. 56.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Sure Lurkalot: I have the soup/broth setting (haven’t noticed whether my iteration has the meat/stew setting or not). I usually use the soup/broth setting to make bone broth from turkey/chicken carcasses, but I honestly don’t think it really matters much which pressure cooking setting one uses. I mean, if I used the manual setting and set it for 25 minutes I think it would produce exactly the same results as if I set the soup/broth setting for 25 minutes. But since it has a broth setting it makes me feel better to use it to make broth for some reason.

    I would think the soup setting would be better for barley soup…meat/stew sounds like it would be for boeuf bourguignon or yankee pot roast, ribs (spareribs with sauerkraut for instance), pork shoulder, etc.

  58. 58.

    schrodingers_cat

    @laura:

     

    Misogyny and the caste system go hand in hand. This was a Dalit girl. Sexual violence is used to kept Dalits in line.

    Dalit = Downtrodden, these are the untouchable castes considered beyond the pale of the caste system.

  60. 60.

    The Moar You Know

     

    What’s astonishing to me is that 41% of union people could like the dumpster!

    @WaterGirl:  It was a real shocker to find that in my wife’s teacher’s union, 40%+ of the membership were Republicans.  Including the current union president.  That level of Republican party affiliation does not seem to be uncommon in most unions, and it’s a lot higher in the two unions I really don’t want to be GOP-majority but are; cops and firefighters.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl:

    Union households are generally more Democratic than demographically similar non-union households, but social considerations are still the strongest ties.

  65. 65.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Villago Delenda Est: Refresh the page, or delete it & reclick on the link. “This tweet is not available to you” is a message I only started getting a couple of months ago (maybe because I don’t have a Twitter account) but that procedure (maybe repeated a couple of times) seems to get you there.

  66. 66.

    JAFD

    Good afternoon, jackals !

    So I think the eyedoctors’ office has my correct telephone number now…  Anyway, have appointment to gtt more tests done next week, one eye operation in November, one in December, and in 2021, get new glasses before these fall apart completely.

    Stay well!

  67. 67.

    Betty Cracker

    @trollhattan: So funny! We had a neighbor years ago who inherited an African grey. The bird was a brilliant mimic — he drove people nuts imitating ringtones. The neighbor had a distinctive laugh, and the bird picked that up too.

  68. 68.

    Cameron

    I thought that was pretty rich of the swinish oaf to slag public colleges, when one of his professors at Wharton remembered him as the dumbest student he ever had.

  69. 69.

    Kent

    Don’t know if anyone caught this, but apparently Arabic twitter is all abuzz about Biden’s artful use of the word “Inshallah” in last night’s debate

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/30/inshallah-biden-debate-trump-taxes/

    Midway through Tuesday night’s chaotic presidential debate, as President Trump vowed to release his still-private tax returns, Joe Biden shot back at his opponent with a particularly sarcastic jab.

    “Millions of dollars, and you’ll get to see it,” Trump said of the amount he claims to have paid.

    “When?” the Democratic presidential nominee interjected. “Inshallah?”

    Suddenly, many Arab American viewers (and plenty of others) were collectively doing a double-take on the Internet. Did Biden — yes, the 77-year-old, gaffe-prone, Roman Catholic native of Scranton, Pa. — really just use “inshallah,” arguably the most ubiquitous phrase in Arabic?

  70. 70.

    Immanentize

     

    BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK https://t.co/xr3PxSpHsj— Racism Watchdog says Justice for Breonna Taylor (@RacismDog) September 30, 2020

  77. 77.

    Kent

    @WaterGirl:@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: What’s astonishing to me is that 41% of union people could like the dumpster!

    That’s because they aren’t “union” people.  They are blue  collar truck drivers, factory workers, etc. who happen to be in a union because it comes with the job, but it is not a meaningful part of their identity.  My brother is a blue collar union member and he talks about this.  For a majority of guys that he works with, the union is nothing more than just one more line item on their payroll deductions like FICA and Medicare.

    The percentage of “woke” union activist blue collar workers is pretty small.  They do exist, especially in cities.  But they are a minority.  A majority just belong to the union because it comes with the job.

    Many unions these days also deliberately scrub national politics from their agenda because it is “too divisive” and just stick with bread and butter local union issues so they can achieve consensus.

  79. 79.

    Kent

    @zhena gogolia:It’s so weird — it’s when I come to the comments, I start getting a sound track and I can’t turn it off.

    Scroll up to the original post and towards the bottom there is a small link you have to click to turn off.  It’s not the big youtube link in the top of the post but a smaller one.  I wish the moderator didn’t do that because every time you refresh it comes back on and some of us work in quiet.

  83. 83.

    Kent

    @The Moar You Know:@WaterGirl:  It was a real shocker to find that in my wife’s teacher’s union, 40%+ of the membership were Republicans.  Including the current union president.  That level of Republican party affiliation does not seem to be uncommon in most unions, and it’s a lot higher in the two unions I really don’t want to be GOP-majority but are; cops and firefighters.

    When I taught in Texas I was somewhat shocked to discover that a large majority of my fellow teachers were Republicans.  Frankly it was mostly the women and the male coaches.  I worked with a ton of female teachers who were married to business types like bank managers, insurance salesmen, mid level corporate types, etc. and for whom their Baptist church and MAGA husbands were much larger influences on their political opinions than being a teacher.   Back when they still had TVs with cable in the classrooms I would walk the halls in the morning and see lots of FOX news playing in classrooms before school

    The football coaches were also mostly MAGA.  At least the white ones.  The only place I found a majority of Dems was in the science department which was 50/50 male/female and mostly Democrat in contrast to the rest of the school.

    Here in WA, most teachers I run into are Democrats except for the occasional contrarian MAGA type who exist.

  84. 84.

    jl

    Just reading the summaries of last night’s Trump meltdown is exhausting.

    I think Biden did what he needed to do: demonstrate that he is not a senile drooling vegetable, and that he has a half-way normal psychology who is not intolerably abusive in every motion, word and look. Low bar, but Trump set it, so it is his problem Biden jumped it with flying colors. But, still, very unfair to Trump! Biden probably got a lot of undecided who just don’t want to put up with an exhausting asshole every day in the news.

    When I am ready I might watch some clips.

  88. 88.

    jl

    The extent of of the damage is indicated by the sad and grimly amusing attempts at damage control by the Trumpster flacks. Basically, “I’m rubber and you are glue, everything I say sticks to you”, “I’m not the bully, you’re the bully!”, and my favorite, “Trump didn’t yell ‘White power, kill all the (fill in the blank here)’ did he? Unfair to Trump!”

  90. 90.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @Kent: Biden speaking “Inshallah,”  and in the correct context with the correct facial expression to connote “Yeah,” “Fuggedaboutit,” “When Hell Freezes Over,” etc. does not surprise me in the least.  Remember, his son Beau served a year over in Iraq, not to mention the young and diverse staff on both his campaign and the transition staffs.  I remember in the 1960’s reading a tween book on Robin Hood where Richard I’s favorite phrase was “Inshallah.”

  93. 93.

    jl

    @different-church-lady: I heard that a one hour gassing and BS session with Rudy and Chris was his only organized preparation.

    And I thought ‘Hoo boy, I smell a train wreck in the offing’.

    Rudy, really? And Chris is not the ideal coach if it is important to tone down the bullying and yelling.

  96. 96.

    WaterGirl

    @CliosFanBoy: pet-calendar at balloon-juice.com

    In your email, please let us know your nym and the names of the pets who will have photos. That gives us a chance to add you to the spreadsheet and have an idea of how many submissions there will be.

    After that we will send you a link to where you can upload your files.

    You don’t even have to have your photos ready before you let us know what your plans are.  thanks

  100. 100.

    jl

    @different-church-lady: Donald, (Sir!) you are at 11 you need to be at 20! Effing show ’em strength, bigly, dammitall.

    Seriously, though, I read that Trump’s strategy was to knock Biden off his balance, get him to goof, seem senile or like an angry old man. But the problem was Biden was up against a true master or that genre.

    Biden wasn’t all that quick on his feet, but it wasn’t age or lack of prep, it was just Biden, if you watch old clips of him. But Biden mostly kept his composure and wits about him, enough for a big win I think.

  103. 103.

    catclub

    From CNN:

    – including the Senate’s lone Black Republican — called on him explicitly to denounce groups who interpreted his comments as tacit approval.

    “I think he misspoke in response to Chris Wallace’s comment,” Sen. Tim Scott, R-South Carolina, a supporter of the President’s, told reporters on Capitol Hill.
    “I think he should correct it,” Scott said. “If he doesn’t correct it, I guess he didn’t misspeak.”

    he will not correct it.  he did not misspeak

  104. 104.

    RobertDSC-Work

    For what it’s worth, I’ve seen severalnon-political memes on Reddit today that have applied Biden’s “Shut up, man” comment. So it has resonance, I think.

  108. 108.

    germy

    I know reporters like to say Chris Wallace is the Good Fox News Guy but he asked Biden why he didn’t call the mayor of Portland.

    — Tentin Quarantino (@agraybee) September 30, 2020

    That question reminded of the way Republicans criticized Biden and Obama for their handling of the COVID-19 crisis.

  109. 109.

    sdhays

    @schrodingers_cat: Obviously he needs to convince people to vote for him, but he has another, more immediate problem. His campaign is out of cash. Biden generated millions that he didn’t desperately need out of this debate performance, and Dump….didn’t. That performance didn’t convince anyone that Donnie Dump is a good investment right now. And, unlike Biden, Dump is very desperate.

  112. 112.

    germy

    Q from @mikememoli: Do you have a message for the Proud Boys?

    Joe Biden: "Cease and desist. Cease and desist. The American people will decide who the next president of the United States will be. Period."

    Last night, Trump said, "Proud Boys, stand back & stand by."

    — Yamiche Alcindor (@Yamiche) September 30, 2020

  113. 113.

    jeffreyw

    @Kent: I remember hanging out at the hall on meeting night when the agent passed through and mentioned that the Illinois AFL CIO was recommending a vote for some guy named Barack Obama in the upcoming senate election primary.

  114. 114.

    James E Powell

    @The Moar You Know:

    It was a real shocker to find that in my wife’s teacher’s union, 40%+ of the membership were Republicans.

    I teach in Los Angeles. It astounds me sometimes the number of teachers I work with who are not just Republican but rabid, right-wing Republican.

  115. 115.

    opiejeanne

    @Cameron: We bailed before the comment about public colleges. What did he say?

    We both went to a Cal State University and took advantage of the local Community Colleges, so that really pisses me off.

  116. 116.

    jl

    @MisterForkbeard: Wow. The initial attempts at a walkback by the Trumpster hacks wasn’t popular with the base, or did they get orders from the boss to quit disrespecting him?

    Big way for Dems to get ahead of a total mess on election day is to work overtime to get a lot of in-person and mail early voting in the bag asap. States are starting voting already. Need to jump on that.

  117. 117.

    catclub

    @opiejeanne: Biden has apparently said ‘he got his start’ at DSU.  meaning his political start was a visit there.  Trump and Co deliberately mis-interpret this to say Biden does not even know what college he went to.

  119. 119.

    mali muso

    Writing my first set of postcards to voters right now!  Thanks to the various jackals who have recommended it as a concrete activity to help win this thing.  Hopefully, every little action contributes to a big win.  Inshallah.

  121. 121.

    Ken

    @sdhays: Yeah, Trump needs around $421 million in the next two years. He’s not going to make that in two years selling steaks on late night TV, so funneling campaign contributions to dubious “consulting” firms is probably his best shot.

    BTW is it petty of me to hope the next administration and Congress put tight limits on Secret Service expenditures for things like golf carts and hotel rooms?  I’m imagining around March, say, they tell Trump “you’ve burned through this year’s budget, no more golfing.”  Assuming he’s not in custody by March.

  123. 123.

    MisterForkbeard

    @jl: I think the idea is just that no one wants to say Trump did anything wrong until Trump makes a public statement on it. So for now they’re just saying he didn’t say what everyone thinks he said, and they’re pretending they don’t understand the question or the uproar.

  124. 124.

    catclub

    @jl: frankly I think Trump was excellent at what he wanted to do:

    Talk fast, interrupt, hammer on his base riling talking points.

    Whether that was the the optimal strategy? not so much.

  125. 125.

    sdhays

    @Ken: I was referring just to the cash crunch in his campaign. The Dump campaign has recently pulled ads in Iowa and Ohio, and it’s not because the polls show he doesn’t need them.

    His personal debt problems are something else.

    ETA: I think we’re at the point where he absolutely needs to win to stay out of serious legal trouble. Paying off those debts by stealing from his campaign isn’t going to work if there’s a functional government next year.

  126. 126.

    MisterForkbeard

    @catclub: It’s particularly ridiculous because Biden started his first campaign there. It’s literally where he got his political/career start.

    The ‘debunkings’ I’ve seen on this aren’t really aggressive enough. They say “In context it’s clear that Biden doesn’t mean what Trump says he means”, when they should say “Trump is lying about what Biden said, and cropping off parts of Biden’s statement to try and twist a normal and honest statement into something controversial”.

  127. 127.

    JoyceH

    Just had an interesting experience. Was playing a game on my phone, and the game is sometimes interrupted by ads. The ads are usually ads for other games, but the ad I just saw was a Spanish-language Biden ad! It was about how many people, and how many Hispanics, have died from COVID while Trump ignores the pandemic. Now I’m wondering who on the Biden team suggested ‘how about we run ads on phone games?’ Covering all the bases!

  128. 128.

    patroclus

    @catclub: Yeah, it’s somewhat “inside baseball” stuff and I’m fine with the “Trump disrespected all alums of all state universities take” it’s been getting, but it really wasn’t like that.  Like you said, Biden has sometimes said that “he got his start at DSU” which is an historically black college.  In fact, he just had one of his first political events there in his initial Senate race.  The Trump campaign has jumped on that as Biden being senile and not even remembering that he went to the University of Delaware.  But it was said while there was a lot of crosstalk in the context of Trump alleging that Biden isn’t smart and it came out like Trump was criticizing all state university attendees.

  130. 130.

    Ken

    @sdhays: I don’t think his personal debt problems and his campaign problems can be separated, since I’m 99% sure that he and his family are grifting campaign funds.

    I’ll be certain if the campaign announces they won’t be conducting an audit to find out how much Parscale grifted.

  132. 132.

    hueyplong

    “I think he should correct it,” [Sen Tim] Scott said. “If he doesn’t correct it, I guess he didn’t misspeak.”

     

    If Trump doesn’t walk back his comments (and I agree he won’t), Scott is in a fairly tough spot, isn’t he?

  133. 133.

    opiejeanne

    @Ken: They’ve already accused Parscale of stealing $40 million. Can’t remember where I saw that, but it was right after Parscale was arrested.

  137. 137.

    Ken

    @opiejeanne: Yeah, that’s what I meant. If they decide not to audit,  it means they don’t want to risk exposing who else has had their hands in the cookie jar.

  138. 138.

    JPL

    @germy: The next format is a town hall, which should be better.   Unless they shut off his mic, nothing will work though.  Imagine letting trump know that mics will only be turned on when it’s your turn to speak.    haahh   He would not show up.  He’d have an emergency phone call.

  139. 139.

    zzyzx

    Trump can’t back down because that would require him to admit that he was wrong. I can’t think of any time in the last 4 years where he has done that.

  140. 140.

    Hoodie

    @Ken: If there is 40 mil missing from the campaign, you can bet that didn’t all go to Parscale.  Remember there is also several mil missing from the inaugural fund, too.  Trump would have let Parscale have a minor cut, but not 40 mil, and Parscale would have been kept around to keep that under wraps and have a convenient candidate for underbussing if the need arose.  I seriously doubt Trump would have not noticed 40 mil missing, especially when you think about all the stories from 2016 where he was railing about “my fucking money.”  I wouldn’t be surprised that some major donor (Adelson?) became aware of it and that’s why Parscale wigged out.

  141. 141.

    Ken

    @germy: I don’t suppose the commission will announce they’re stepping down and turning the debates over to the League of Women Voters.

    (Maybe it’s just nostalgia and they’d be just as bad if they took over, but I’m willing to give it a chance.)

  143. 143.

    Wapiti

    @Cheryl from Maryland: Yup, I learned it in the military. Going up a long hill on a curve behind some overloaded truck that’s making about 15 mph? Mutter “Inshallah” under your breath and pass him. It always worked for me.

  144. 144.

    Calouste

    @germy: Note that the commission is making these changes because the Republican candidate won’t keep to the rules and refuses to behave like a grownup.

  146. 146.

    Marcopolo

    Less than 5 weeks to go and if we keep getting polls like this there’s a good chance we are all asleep or drunk off our asses by 9-10 EST Nov. 3.

    Quinnipiac in South Carolina:  Trump 48, Biden 47  Graham 48, Harrison 48  It continues a streak of relatively strong results for Democrats from Quinnipiac, especially in the Southhttps://t.co/yo70aufml6— Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) September 30, 2020

  148. 148.

    Kent

    @hueyplong:

    “I think he should correct it,” [Sen Tim] Scott said. “If he doesn’t correct it, I guess he didn’t misspeak.”

    If Trump doesn’t walk back his comments (and I agree he won’t), Scott is in a fairly tough spot, isn’t he?

    Tim Scott has been in a tough spot ever since he decided to be a Republican from South Carolina.

  149. 149.

    Ocotillo

    @Ken:  Yeah, Trump needs around $421 million in the next two years.

     

    On the other hand, when has he ever paid back his loans?

  150. 150.

    Kent

    @James E Powell:

    @Ken:

    The whole “debate” thing needs to be trashed. They are useless or worse.

    I disagree.  Last night’s debate was a complete abortion.  But in general it is one of the few chances that Americans actually have to see the candidates in a unscripted format, actually having to think on their feet.  Take away the debates and all you have left is scripted rallies and curated campaign ads.

    The better question is how do you improve them.  Giving them back to the League of Women Voters would be a good start.

    The rest of the civilized world seems to be able to pull of decent political debates.

  151. 151.

    MisterForkbeard

    @James E Powell: Honestly, I think they should do the following:

    1. Put each candidate in a separate room.
    2. Ask a question. Give just the required 5 minutes to respond.
    3. Give the other candidate 2 minutes to respond.
    4. Record both answers and have fact checking put up on the screen while the candidates’ answers are shown.

    They won’t do this because it doesn’t let the candidates interact meaningfully and it’s not dramatic, but I think it’s the only way to stop brazen lying. And even that depends on fact-checkers being unbiased, which is super unlikely.

  152. 152.

    Mo Salad

    @JoyceH: I play idle clicker games and see tons of ads, so I have a funny ad story. Many of the ads are for other games that they are trying to get you to download.  There is an ad for a game based upon The Goldbergs TV series. One of the game goals is to make the Goldberg kids more popular. In the ad they scroll down a list of the 100 most popular students to show the 3 Goldberg kids at the bottom in spots 98 -100. Number 97, right above them? David Sirota.

  153. 153.

    Dan B

    @schrodingers_cat: The full story is especially horrifying.  They cut out her tongue.  She survived for days and the police emotionally abused and demeaned the family.  All this in the name of manhood and superiority.  It’s savagery and slow motion warfare.

  154. 154.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @p.a.: Or is he so fucking dumb he can’t deliver any useful info to our enemies???

    He’s so dumb we would know what which was the country of choice for Trump. It’s hard to believe even Putin would touch Trump though.

  155. 155.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @topclimber: I kind of doubt even Biden would do much pushback, India has it’s alliance now which is containing China’s southern push.

  156. 156.

    germy

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I think they should do the following:

    Wheel Trump out, fastened securely to a gurney, his mouth duct taped shut.

    Remove the duct tape when he is asked to respond to a moderator’s question.  Cover Trump’s mouth again when Biden is speaking.

    Every time the president makes a false claim, squirt him with seltzer. This can be accompanied by a loud buzzer.

  157. 157.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @James E Powell:The whole “debate” thing needs to be trashed. They are useless or worse.

    Last night made it clear to everyone why Trump is worthless as president.  I think that debate did it’s job.

  160. 160.

    James E Powell

    @Kent:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I hope we can disagree amicably. The crux of our disagreement is that I do not believe that determining who is good at an unscripted TV performance managed by press/media clowns is in any way helpful to determining who will be good at being president.

    I have no doubt we could contrive formats or structures that might give us information that could help us, but I am almost certain that TV audiences would not watch it.

  161. 161.

    Hoodie

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yeah, a play isn’t necessarily bad because a rabid raccoon wanders on to the set.  Think of it as a dada performance piece, enhancing the experience by exposing another layer of truths.  Biden kept calm and remembered his lines.  Wallace didn’t do a terrible job, it was just refreshing to see someone who fits the mold of the GOP daddies club having to deal with the monster in real time.   It was a microcosm of the experience of all the other GOPers who think they can mold and manipulate Trump for their own ends.  Typically, all you get out of that is ending up covered in raccoon shit.

  162. 162.

    Ken

    @MisterForkbeard: Useful ideas, but when one candidate is talking how about including the other candidate, muted of course, as picture-in-picture?

    We’d presumably see Biden listening to Trump and rolling his eyes, and Trump ranting continuously (and in blessed silence) even when his mic is cut off.  It’ll also be funny when they cut back to Trump and say “you now have 2 minutes, what is your rebuttal to Biden’s points” and he has no idea what was just said.

  163. 163.

    brantl

    They need the microphones cut for the opposite person speaking, and Biden will be fine with that, but Stump won’t be able to stand it, he’ll have an aneurism, right there, right then.

  166. 166.

    MisterForkbeard

    @James E Powell: I somewhat disagree – I think being able to ask candidates what they think and would do without them being able to solicit advice or spend hours focus testing a response is actually a pretty valuable exercise.

    If a candidate needs to say “I don’t know enough about that issue, I would have to seek counsel from my experts” then that’s what they say. That’s valuable to know. If they have a good answer, that’s valuable.

    As debates stand now, they’re open invitations to fuckery and bad faith. See Trump.

  167. 167.

    catclub

    @Kent: But in general it is one of the few chances that Americans actually have to see the candidates in a unscripted format, actually having to think on their feet. Take away the debates and all you have left is scripted rallies and curated campaign ads.

     

    also, one of the next two is a townhall, where ‘regular citizens [ found in small town diners, but whatever]’ will be asking questions. trump is even worse in that format. he failed it when it was all him alone.

  169. 169.

    mad citizen

    @MisterForkbeard: I like this suggestion, and I was on the “no more debates” for a while but the jackals convinced me they are valuable in showing the candidates unfiltered, as it were.  Important since they can often go through without facing hostile press, etc., especially after the primaries.

    As for taping trump’s mouth shut, I don’t think even super-sticky tape would stick to the orange glaze, so I’d go with a fabric gag, ball gag, or soundproof full face helmet

    Oh yes, I used to watch the NCAA mens basketball quite a bit–interest wanes more and more over the years, partly because of how damn controlled the games are by the coaches.  I think it’d be cool to not allow any, or have limited coaching opportunities during the game rather than the shitload of timeouts they have now.  Let the players figure it out, like the candidates do during the debate.

  170. 170.

    Ken

    @jl: I would so love to see the Biden administration start bandying around “treason” and “sedition” the way Trump (and Fox) are.  But Biden is sane and respects legal and democratic norms, so it won’t happen.

  172. 172.

    jl

    @sdhays: Trump faces real bankruptcy, and losing his financial privileges and rich life style. He’d be a true loser, a mess, by his own standards, which would be intolerable.

    Fleeing the country would be OK, or if the criminal law still can’t manage to touch him, running a nutcase media empire so he can whine about how unfair the Deep State is to him would be OK if he could still live as though he were rich.

    Losing the life style and the rich man cred is intolerable.

    And regardless of what we think of Melania, I think she has some legit scores to settle, so she’d want a bite too.

  175. 175.

    Josie

    @germy:

    I have read your suggestions several times, and I must confess, I have laughed out loud every single time.   I will think of the word picture you drew every time I see his ugly mug, and the thought will sustain me.

  176. 176.

    James E Powell

    If these “debates” were effective at demonstrating who would make a better president, we would have had a different result in 2016. See also, 2000, 2004.

  177. 177.

    Kent

    @catclub:also, one of the next two is a townhall, where ‘regular citizens [ found in small town diners, but whatever]’ will be asking questions. trump is even worse in that format. he failed it when it was all him alone.

    I find the “regular citizens” often ask better questions.  Which tells us how bad our media is….or at least those who rise to the level of debate moderators.

  178. 178.

    jl

    @Ken: I think Biden and his team understand contempt and laughter is more effective than outrage and fear. First because Trump simple cannot tolerate ridicule and scorn. I’ve read he really lost control whenever Biden didn’t take him seriously. And second, expressing outrage and fear of what Trump might do without any real ability to stop Trump from wielding his power give a subliminal message of weakness (which we policy wonks discount, but is important for low info voters).

    I’ve pulled up my socks and watched a couple of clips. After Trump made threats about ignoring and attacking election results, Biden simply said that it was not Trump’s decision, and it would not be in Trump’s hands. I think that was very effective.

    And BTW,  I think Trump really caused himself and GOP Senate majority chances big problems when he blurted out that the reason to get a new Supreme Court justice confirmed before the election was so he could try to get them to decide the election in his favor. Trump’s addiction to blurting out the truth continues, and allows the opposition to prepare.

  179. 179.

    Ken

    @Leto: I’d love to see real debate prep videos, from both candidates. It’d be more valuable than the actual “debate”.

    I wonder who Biden’s team had playing Trump?  It’s a toss-up whether a skilled debater who’s studied the man carefully, or a four-year-old who’s had a favorite toy taken away, would more accurately capture Trump’s performance.

  180. 180.

    Kent

    @James E Powell:If these “debates” were effective at demonstrating who would make a better president, we would have had a different result in 2016. See also, 2000, 2004.

    I think they were effective and revealing in all of those years.  That doesn’t mean they were determinative though, given everything else going on in those campaigns.  Honestly, a more “scripted” trump in 2016 probably would have gotten more votes.

  181. 181.

    topclimber

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I defer to your presumed greater knowledge on the subject, but my review of the situation so far shows any “alliance” to be more aspirational than real.

    India will counterbalance Chinese influence for its own reasons, just as we will for ours. Around the edges, a US led by someone who tries now and then to actually promote human rights can make a difference.

    For those who are sure Biden will operate only on the basis of realpolitik, the following tidbit from our current State Department will be good for a cynical laugh:

    “The U.S.-India partnership is founded on a shared commitment to freedom, democratic principles, equal treatment of all citizens, human rights, and the rule of law”

  182. 182.

    cckids

    @Kent: I caught that, and lol’d. There were two Trump utterances that I’m sure I heard, but haven’t seen mentioned anywhere else.

    I swear I heard Trump, early in the shitshow, when Biden was talking (giving his “Number One, I’ll  . . .. , Number Two . .”), and Trump said “You’re a number two”.  My spouse & I exchanged a look because WTF.

    The second one was later; possibly during the “law-n-order” talk, I don’t remember what Biden was saying, but Trump said “You can’t do it, it’s not in your blood“. Which reminded me of his absurd white supremacist/racehorse/genetics theories.

    Am I crazy?? Did anyone else catch those?

  184. 184.

    BruceFromOhio

    Trump is not going broke, and any story line should be backed up with some basic accounting:

    Forbes, which has been valuing Trump properties for decades for its annual billionaire issue, says Trump’s 40 Wall Street office tower generated $18 million in operating profits in 2019, Trump Tower $13 million, and Trump’s share in San Francisco’s 555 California Street tower $26 million.

    According to Forbes’ latest valuation, even pandemic-reduced prices leave Trump with $2.5 billion worth of properties and other assets, and that is after subtracting his $1.2 billion in debt.

    preznit shitwhistle is a lot of things, ‘broke’ is not one one of them.

    Not yet, anyway. There’s always hope.

  185. 185.

    jl

    @catclub: I remember at the beginning of the Trump regime, FLOTUS Melania threw a few traditional FLOTUS events. I think she had a couple of Michelle style WH garden events with a mixed group of regular people and nieghborhood kids puttering around having fun. Unlike previous administrations, the POTUS was never seen. Someone shut that down, and I wonder who.

    Melania may not be an admirable person, but I think she is somewhat more normal than the rest of the clan. Her time as FLOTUS would probably have been weird and off even if she had been allowed to do some normal FLOTUS things, but she is normal enough to have wanted to some normal FLOTUS things.

    I have to wonder if Trump promised her he’d lose and make a lot of money off the campaign, and he broke that promise, even if by chance.

  186. 186.

    Leto

    @Ken: Last night Trevor Noah’s Daily Show did a segment with the guy who played Trumpov for HRCs debate prep. To get in character, he went to his tailor and had him make an oversized/ill fitting suit, got a tie that was like 70ft long, and shoes with 3-4” lifts. He did things like stalked her around the stage, did word salad, and such. I don’t know if you can fully prepare for something like that. Basically paraphrasing, “Plans survive until first contact with the enemy” and all. I know that Biden’s team will further refine their approach to the human sewer system, while I’m sure everyone will say to Trumpov, “Sir… sir… that was up there with Churchill during WW2, this will be remembered as the best debate ever!” Or maybe that’s what the orange thing on top of his head is feeding to his shriveled peanut brain.

  187. 187.

    Ken

    @Leto: an oversized/ill fitting suit, got a tie that was like 70ft long, and shoes with 3-4” lifts

    So you’re saying I should have added “circus clown” to my list of Trump stand-ins for debate prep.

  188. 188.

    mad citizen

    @cckids: I think I heard the second one you mention and definitely heard the first (You’re a number two).  I thought of Dr. Evil from the Austin Powers movies, and Number Two, played by Robert Wagner.

    Remember how Biden seemed to be the one Trump focused on last year–I guess because trump thought Biden was the one with the “brand” name, etc.  I like to think part of Biden’s appeal is simply that he was Obama’s #2 for 8 years.  Period.  He knows how to get shit done.

    Was thinking earlier how great it would be if Biden continues the weekly lunch tradition with his VP Kamala, but since Obama live close, invite him to some lunches as well.

  189. 189.

    Yutsano

    @BruceFromOhio:  None of those assets are very liquid. Any attempt at sale may also be subject to any liens (especially contractor liens) there might be in any of the jurisdictions including federal. All of those operating profits are getting funneled into debt maintenance. He may not be broke but his accountants sure make their overtime.

  190. 190.

    Leto

    @BruceFromOhio: Considering he’s lied to Forbes before (it’s part of the reason they dropped him from the Forbes 400), and they don’t have a full picture of his finances (nor anyone else’s finances on their “list”), I’ll take their “evaluation” with the grain of salt it deserves. Easiest way for us, the American public, to know wtf is going on with the highest office holder in the land is for that shitbag to release the past 20 years of personal taxes.

    He’s bleeding cash from poor investments. He’s continually making piss poor investments. He’s a shitty businessman and a loser. Until he proves otherwise, he’s a broke loser looking to continue to prop up his failing business by siphoning taxpayer funds to keep his operation afloat. Fuck. Him. Vote’ em out, let the indictments start.

  191. 191.

    BruceFromOhio

    @Yutsano: Right on. There’s a shit-ton of strings, and the tax code was made *very* friendly over decades to property owners to play games with losses and avoid paying income and property taxes, so the show never stops.

    But – liquid or not, the assets exceed the liabilities. This “he’s broke” story line is inaccurate.

  193. 193.

    James E Powell

    @jl:

    Melania may not be an admirable person, but I think she is somewhat more normal than the rest of the clan.

    Wearing her “I really don’t care, do you?” jacket to go visit children being held in cages means she is an irredeemable asshole.

  194. 194.

    BruceFromOhio

    @Leto: Dude, not defending him in the least. Would love nothing more than the whole family in orange jumpsuits off to federal pens. As I noted above, assets exceed liabilities, it’s as simple as that.

    And tax returns may belie the whole “successful businessman” shtick, but they will never tell the whole story. My tax returns don’t show where I got my shit stashed or my net worth, nor will they ever. While it’s great to see the NYTimes story rip the skin off that scab, it’s just one piece of the puzzle.

    Let me stop you all short before you jump all over my shit, I can smell the jackal breath from way out here.

    • Not defending the indefensible
    • Not looking for a fight
    • Addressing solely the statement “he’s broke.”
    • Assets exceed liabilities according to a widely-read and acceptable-to-me source of information
    • Have at it. Fire for effect!
  199. 199.

    Ruckus

    @Ocotillo:

    A non payback is probably going to be rather serious for him now than it has been in the past. First, far more know how deep in the hole he is, and he’s burned all his bridges and shown the world what an ass he is and for sure can’t be trusted.

  200. 200.

    brantl

    @brantl: forgot to add, he’s also known for inflating the value of his assets, when taking out loans, and deflates them for his taxes. He may well be broke. His original evaluation by Forbes, that he then has relied on to borrow all this money, was done with him fraudulently pretending to be another person, vouching for Donald Trump, as well, it could very easily all be a house of cards.

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