Is it October 11 already? Time flies when you’re locked in a plague bunker.
Last year I wrote about my mixed feelings on this day of observance. Visibility can be a burden; most of us just want to live our lives. At the same time, lack of visibility is a big driver of the forces that seek to prevent us from living our lives, and reminding everybody I’m gay once a year isn’t really that annoying. So it is with only minor grumpiness that I wish you an acceptable Coming Out Day–may we some day not need it any more.
I’m gay, and so is my husband.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled lazy afternoon.
PsiFighter37
Jaime Harrison raised $57mm – wow! That has to be more than enough to drench South Carolina with nonstop ads on TV, radio, digital, etc. until Election Day.
Chetan Murthy
I hope it’s OK to post this comment, on this thread. It’s not about how coming out affected a gay person, but rather, how it affected a straight person.
I remember the day one of my best friends came out to me. We were roommates, and honestly, I wasn’t exactly the most open-minded kind of guy. It took an enormous amount of guts on his part to do it. I still remember the thoughts that went thru my head:
“Well, I know J. and he’s a great guy. And so, if J. is gay, then gay people can be great people. OK, so I shouldn’t be homophobic.”
It was a real awakening for me, and all due to my friend coming to me. It’s not like I stopped having homophobic thoughts on that day, either. It was a long journey from there, to seeing two gay men kissing on the street, and thinking “Doisneau”. But it started that day, in the apartment we shared.
A Ghost to Most
Cool. We’ll keep fighting those who want to be assholes about it.
Major Major Major Major
@Chetan Murthy: that’s a super ok comment! It would be a lonely blog if straight people couldn’t talk about being straight.
and it just goes to show the value of visibility.
JanieM
Sometime in the mid-eighties I told a Jesuit friend of mine that I was gay. He was cool about it, in his sophisticated Jesuit way (and his loving personal way), but one of his comments was, “I dunno, I guess it’s okay on some level, but I worry about gay people being visible because of the role modeling issue.”
When I picked my eyebrows off the ceiling after the eyerollery, I said, “John [not his real name], if I’m okay as me, why am I not okay as a role model?”
He was honest enough to admit that he didn’t have a good answer to that question. Years later he was a leader in making a space for LGBTQ people and issues in the context of his work with young people.
******
Seconding the ambivalence about visibility that M^4 mentions.
Major Major Major Major
Bonus samwise
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Along with that, I am noticing a tendency among people, if they find that someone is married, to ask about or refer to the other person’s spouse – not husband or wife unless it was specifically indicated. Little things, but progress is progress, I guess.
WaterGirl
@JanieM: Yikes. Sounds like he had some growing to do, and he did it. Sorry it took him so long!
brantl
What does Doisneau mean?
West of the Rockies
NPR has a story on NCOD on their website. I linked it to my daughter who is still sort of figuring out where on the spectrum she fits (bi or pan). Her mother has been in denial, telling her, “You can’t like girls; girls smell funny.”
My partner is an LMFT who specializes in the LGBTQ+ community (and is my daughter’s “bonus mom”), so she has been supportive. I wish I had a proper flag emoji to insert here.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Has Samwise been watching the news? He looks like he is shocked and dismayed.
brantl
@WaterGirl: He looks like he sees live food.
Major Major Major Major
@West of the Rockies: what’s wrong with ?️??
as for the bi/pan distinction, I don’t think I’d even notice if somebody used them interchangeably. Just my $0.02 of course
glc
@brantl: Can’t say it rang a bell for me, but with a jog to the memory it will:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Doisneau
NotMax
Something for the eyes. Installation at a museum in (IIRC) Italy, the name and other details of which I neglected to write down back when first snatched the image for a storage file of miscellany on the PC.
West of the Rockies
@Chetan Murthy:
We all learn (hopefully) as we age. I suspect all of, Chetan, have such stories of enlightenment gained.
different-church-lady
As a “cis” (still not exactly sure what that’s supposed to mean) I’ll go out on the limb here…
One of my favorite NY’er cartoons is a gay couple sitting on a couch. One is on the phone saying, “We’re not doing anything for Pride this year. We’re here, we’re queer, we’re used to it.”
Being lucky enough to be born into the non-shit-upon-daily demographic bin, while also refusing to be the utter asshole that luck supposedly entitles me to be, I’ve always struggled with how to be an ally to socially oppressed groups without being insufferable. I want desperately to acknowlege their burden, but to not do it in a way that does “other” them.
Decent people want transparency. I don’t wish to view LGTBetc people or non-white races as “different”, but in order to be part of dismantling systemic oppression I need to do that to some extent, and that can feel like threading a needle. And that needle eye must seem even smaller for members of the oppresed groups.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I actually thought this was going to be about Dems in heavily-Repub areas, because the language of “coming out” was used in that posting about The Villages.
May you live to see that day.
I learned that word in Organic Chemistry, way back in the day. I was surprised to see it popping up in reference to humans. In chem, some compounds come in “cis” and “trans” form. So in extending the application of those words, I guess it means “not trans”.
Chetan Murthy
@brantl: Robert Doisneau was a photographer. One of his most famous portraits (made into posters, seen everwhere) is of a (straight) couple kissing on the streets of Paris. I’d go so far as to say that it’s an iconic photograph.
https://www.domusweb.it/en/art/gallery/2020/07/10/robert-doisneau-the-unexpected-you-find-in-the-street-is-true-poetry.html
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: I actually get sort of annoyed when people say ‘partner’. Not because they’re almost invariably straight people picking up a discarded gay euphemism, just because like, why? You already have perfectly good words that are more descriptive and probably carry less stigma. But I appreciate the effort.
gwangung
@Chetan Murthy: This reminds me that I am an unfinished work. I am better than I was in the past, but I can still be better in the future.
Charluckles
If for nothing else I think it’s really important for the young folks who are struggling with their own identity.
Kent
I’m not gay but I have an openly LGBT 17-year old daughter. What I find sort of interesting is that she and her friends don’t really identify as gay, and even treat that label as too conforming or something. They use words like “pan” or “nonbinary” or just LGBT, and kind of view “lesbians” as old ladies who drive Subarus and own golden retrievers. I kind of like that they are carving out their own space and making both their straight and gay elders a little big uncomfortable. As they should.
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady:
The first google result is instructive https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender it basically means ‘not trans’
West of the Rockies
@Major Major Major Major:
Well, it’s a distinction (without a difference?) that my daughter made, so I go with it.
Sxjames
Well I certainly hope your husband is gay, it would be kind of ackword if he wasn’t ?
Delk
My gay husband and I celebrated 21 years together October 4th.
West of the Rockies
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m a cis straight man. My SO is a cis bi woman. We’re not married and in our 50s, so boy/girlfriend sounds odd, though we both occasionally use it, along with fiance(e), SO (significant other), and partner. Just my 2 cents.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve heard people use partner about their significant other and then been surprised to find out that they are are straight. I guess that’s what happens when I assume. But also, boyfriend or girlfriend becomes less, shall we say, accurate as people enter their ’30s and beyond. We don’t really have a good term for unmarried long term couples. Partner is about the best there is. I would advocate for paramour, but I don’t think it will catch on – too French.
Yutsano
@Kent:
Wait…what’s wrong with Subarus and golden retrievers? :P
Chetan Murthy
@gwangung:
Me too, yo’. Me too. Every now and then I catch fleeting homophobic thoughts (and racist thoughts, and misogynist thoughts). It’s how we deal with those thoughts, that determines whether we’re decent or indecent.
JanieM
This made me laugh. I have always thought the word implied an obscure religious cult, and I never use it. I just say I’m gay, partly because I like the fact that it’s an adjective rather than a noun. It’s an attribute of mine, one among many.
As to spouse/partner, etc: back when we were having our first SSM referendum campaign in Maine (after 6 or 7 gay rights referenda in the previous 14 years, talk about not being able to avoid visibility even if you wanted to), a guy who taught con law (!!!!) at a college in Maine wrote a whiny op-ed about how gay people weren’t sufficiently sympathetic to his poor feelings at the prospect that he might lose the right to be called a “husband.” (As if!)
Out of curiosity, I spent an afternoon in the law library at the State House (IANAL, but I can read, and the librarians love to help people), and established that the words “husband” and “wife” had disappeared from Maine statutes relating to marriage in IIRC the mid-sixties, when equality between spouses was established.
scav
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, but the ‘more descriptive’ terms do come with a lot of historical baggage. Partner at least describes a theoretically equal relationship and elides the whole legally or religiously ‘recognized’ nonsense — personally, I wouldn’t give a shit what any religion thought of my relationship(s) and the legal issues would primarily involve the IRS and hospitals in emergency circumstances.
Robmassing
I’m gay! So very very gay! ???
raven
There was a group here in Athens with the great name of “Straight But Not Narrow”!
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Back in the day we used to say “checkmate.”
As in we share everything, including paychecks.
;)
Kent
I’m talking about the word “Lesbian.” From what I can tell, they don’t really use it and see it as kind an anachronism from an older generation. They weren’t particularly impressed with that old guy Pete Buttigieg either. They find their inspiration and culture on YouTube and anime and KPop and places folks over 25 or 30 rarely tread.
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
I just got a mask that has a picture of a Samwise doppelgänger on it.
https://fineartamerica.com/featured/closeup-russian-blue-sergey-taran.html?product=face-mask
Ramalama
When I was young, I called up the Gay and Lesbian Hotline in Boston on Newbury Street and … told them. The guy on the phone said, “So what’s the problem?” I said, “Nothing…”
He said, “Do you know where to find lesbians – where to hang out?” He listed some places. “Yeah, I know them,” I said. There were 2 bars for gay people to go to, not including the dungeons for men I’d heard about but had not frequented.
“So you’re okay with it?” he asked, sounding distant. “What do you mean?” I asked.
“I don’t get what the problem is,” he said.
“Problem?” I asked. “No problem.”
“Why are you calling?” he asked.
“To tell you,” I said.
He started laughing really loudly. Screaming. He said, “You mean like you want to be put on the registry? The GAY AND LESBIAN REGISTRY??” As soon as he said that, I realized how ridiculous it was. Me was.
He said, “This has been the best call I’ve ever received. THANK YOU.”
— It occurs to me that I’ve not thought of making that phone call – way back when – till now.
Mike in NC
Republicans are coming for peoples’ health care, voting rights, reproductive rights, and the right to marry whoever you damn well please. Getting rid of Trump also means getting rid of the religious freak Pence, who’s a terrible person in every way you can imagine, but especially hostile to the gay community.
WaterGirl
@different-church-lady: Would you like me to add “not” to the last line in your 3rd paragraph?
debbie
@Chetan Murthy:
It definitely is iconic.
Sister Golden Bear
Happy #NationalComingOutDay to everyone who is out, or is coming out today! Coming out can be scary—transitioning was by far the hardest thing I’ve done in my life—and even if you think you’ll be accepted and supported, you’re never sure.
Much love as well to those who can’t—or don’t want to be—out, and to those for whom “it’s complicated.” For those whom not being out is the right decision, even more love to you, we all know how lonely that can feel. Your decisions are 100 percent valid. You are as TBLGQ* as anyone else.
Much love to those who are bi and pan and who have their identities erased or questioned by both straights and lesbians and gays. You are as TBLGQ as anyone else.
Much love to my fellow trans women and trans men, who are women and men just as much as cisgender women and men, despite the biblehumpers and the TERFs who would deny our identities.
Much love to my non-binary and genderfluid, and agender friends. Your gender identities are just as valid as anyone else’s.
For the younger folks in the TBLGQ communities, for whom coming out has been fairly easy and painless, please recognize that it often wasn’t so for the elders in our communities. Growing up we didn’t have the internet, social media, or visible role models. Often we didn’t even have the words to understand who we were. Often it took years, or decades to figure that out.
For friends, family and parents, remember there’s a world of difference between being accepting and affirming. Don’t just tolerate and “still” love them. Love them because of who they are.
Much love to you all,
Me (a queer trans woman)
*In honor of the late, legendary, trans activist Monica Roberts’ (who died unexpectedly a few days ago) preferred order of the letters.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
I guess the eyes are too green!
Fair Economist
@West of the Rockies:”Partner” seems a good way to refer to, well, your partner in a serious but not officially married couple, regardless of genders. I agree “boyfriend/girlfriend” seems light and highschooly for a lot of long term relationships. The fact that gays don’t have to use it for married couples denied legal recognition just makes it better for that purpose.
batgirl
My cousin posted this on Facebook today!
debbie
@West of the Rockies:
My women friends in relationships (married or not) prefer “partner” too.
MagdaInBlack
About 10 years ago a close friend called me, frantic and in shock ( but not disapproving) because her son had come out to her. After I talked her down ( o my god his father will lose his mind) we agreed that now Michael can be Michael, and not pretend for others comfort. And since then Michael has bloomed….I just wish we would allow people to be who they are… if that makes sense. A lot to ask from this society, I know, but its hard enough to find someone who loves you and who loves you back, with out having to deal with societal expectations of who that person “should” be.
I ramble, I know, but jeezuz, why can’t we just let people live their lives.
Cheryl Rofer
@JanieM: Good for Maine! New Mexico changed language in marriage statutes to “spouse” from “husband” and “wife” in the sixties and found out several years ago that we had made same-sex marriages legal at the same time.
Since I had a little to do with those changes, I’ve been particularly pleased about the serendipity.
NotMax
@debbie
If Apple put out a distinctively shaped Bluetooth speaker would they market it as the iConic?
:)
Fair Economist
@Sister Golden Bear: Well said.
Chetan Murthy
@Cheryl Rofer: By contrast, in Texas, marital rape was only outlawed in 1994. Sigh.
Another Scott
ICYMI, …
(Danica is a member of the VA House of Delgates.)
A good thread. She ends with:
Yup.
Here’s a toast to the day when society no longer has to put people into gender and sexual-orientation boxes any more than they have to put them into eye-color or hair-color-boxes. We’re not all the same, and that’s wonderful. People must be able to be themselves for us to move forward.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Fair Economist: It sure beats POSSLQ.
(Person of Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters, for those of you not old enough to remember that one)
Meyerman
Way back in the 90s, I worked in the San Francisco office of a big LA-based law firm. I still remember when the firm announced the new partners for the year that it would describe the straight partners’ personal lives thusly: “Jim lives in Greenwich with his wife, Karen, their three kids, and their golden retriever, Loco.” Gay partners entries read: “Joe is single and lives in Noe Valley.” Since I knew that Joe had been with his partner for 10 years and that they had invited the new associates from the San Francisco office over to their house for dinner, I was saddened (and disgusted) by the fact that somehow this fact was unfit for public knowledge. We have come a long way, though there is so much farther to go.
Major Major Major Major
@West of the Rockies: @Omnes Omnibus:
Fair points! I guess I’m thinking more of people like my 32yo straight married friend who says it.
Dan B
My response about visibility is from having figured out I was “homosexual” before the word gay meant anything but happy. I was a kid during Joe McCarthy’shearings that ran a lot of people out of jobs. It gave me nightmares that didn’t fade for years. And there was the assumption that I was a pedophile. I was booted out of college. I landed in Chicago where I finally was able to locate gay people. There are horror stories from that time and some triumphs with Gay Liberation. The issue to overcome was invisibility and the prejudice that was weaponized.
And trans women are still being abused.
Major Major Major Major
@zhena gogolia: ooooh
Sister Golden Bear
@Yutsano: Don’t forget hummus and cats.
Delk
Heh, for the last 5-6 years we’ve been getting, “So are you guys brothers?”
Gvg
@Major Major Major Major: he is not a funny cat, just a really pleasant to look at one. It doesn’t require commentary…I just look at the nice cat and the day is a bit better.
Sister Golden Bear
And killed regularly.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Ageist.
Steeplejack
@Major Major Major Major:
I think some people use partner when they’re unsure about the couple’s legal status and don’t want to presume spouse (meaning married). But if they know you’re married, no reason not to use husband.
(Do lesbians use wife, or does that have negative overtones from the past?)
NotMax
@Dan B
Carrying that meaning goes back a ways, at least to the 30s, when an audience would have understood the reference.
;)
Major Major Major Major
@Dan B: you’ve been through so much and lived in such a different world. I helped scatter Harry Hay’s ashes ten or so years ago, in my twenties, if you want a morbid thought about how many queer generations have come since those early postwar fights.
sdhays
I’m being very silly, but I just have to say that this construction made me chuckle. We would want a lot more information if your husband wasn’t also gay. :-)
Back in college, my best friend found out he was gay, and he tried to tell me and I didn’t get it. I wasn’t anti-gay – while I’m definitely not proud of everything I thought or said when I was in high school, I can actually say I was explicitly not homophobic. Not a crusader, but homophobia didn’t make sense to me and I tried not to be a part of it. But my friend and I were separated by over a thousand miles and we were talking on the phone and he told me he had been making out with a girl and felt that it wasn’t “right”.
My friend had dated (girls) in high school and he has a small-c conservative personality, so I thought he was just saying he was uncomfortable with the direction of how quickly the relationship was moving with his girlfriend. It just never occurred to me that he could be gay. When he told me later in more explicit terms that could penetrate my thick noggin, we were cool. I was worried about him, since he’s had a lot of challenges in his life and we didn’t come from the most welcoming place, and he still lives there. But he eventually found a great guy and they got married a few years ago and I’m really happy for them.
I just wish he would get out of our hometown. He hates it there and I really think he would flourish if he moved to a more urban area. Preferably closer by, since I miss him and we only really get to see each other when we visit my parents back home at Christmas, which isn’t happening this year.
Major Major Major Major
@Delk: ha! I think I’ll avoid that fate since my husband isn’t white lol
Major Major Major Major
@Steeplejack: my married lesbian friends say wife (I thiiink they prefer ‘gay’ to ‘lesbian’ as well)
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Partner sounds okay to me for unmarried long-term couples. Paramour sounds more like a “love affair” term.
gene108
It’d be a very awkward marriage, if your husband wasn’t gay too. :-)
Major Major Major Major
@gene108: bisexual erasure! Tsk
Pete Mack
Good day for #proudboys and #leathermen! And a general well done to all for chasing the Nazis off of Twitter.
Dan B
@Sister Golden Bear: Your words are wonderful. I was reminded that when the Chicago mafia took a contract on us and when the Vice Squad rounded up 200 paddy wagons to arrest everyone at our dance we dozen or so Chicago Gay Libbers still found time to play and time to cry, and dance. Those things bonded us and made us stronger. People came out of the woodwork to help because they saw our humanity. It’s how we change the world for the better.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
That’s great! I might send one to an old friend who had a run of Russian blues.
Yutsano
OT: the Iggles are running all over the Stillers right now. Blogfather mood gonna be cranky later.
cope
My uncle (actually my step-father’s brother) died a couple of years ago at 93. He didn’t come out to us family until he was 90. I still find that sad because it would not have mattered a whit to any of us.
Dan B
@NotMax: The term “gay” hadn’t made it to Akron or Cincinnati, at least not in the way that the movies implied. Homosexual implied you were only defined by sexuality not by love or other things that make us whole humans. It’s a tell when people say homosexual. I can check their far right and christianist boxes with little fear of being wrong.
Another Scott
@Yutsano: Continued OT – Dunno.
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@Dan B: I kinda like the old-timey ‘homophile’ but the best euphemism of all time is ‘temperamental’
Mallard Filmore
@Chetan Murthy:
My attitude has always been: as long as I don’t have to kiss them, it’s not my job to care. That also applies to a lot of women.
As a result, I am very lonely.
Yutsano
@Major Major Major Major:
This does make me slightly sad. The term “lesbian” goes back to ancient Greek history. Sappho of Lesbos (a Greek island) was one of the first to advance the idea that same sex female love shouldn’t be forbidden. I’m simplifying (mostly because I have to go run a quick errand) but the term lesbian derives from that history. Just a little history I fear losing.
Kent
Same here. One of my best friends from HS came out as gay when we were in college (at the same college) and it was sort of no big deal. This was early 1980s on the west coast so there definitely wasn’t the same sort of sense of gay/straight alliance or support that there is today. We had openly gay professors and a pretty open gay and lesbian community but I think the wider community support was what was lacking, at least in any organized way. I think we were more “tolerant” than supportive and probably didn’t think nearly enough about what they were going through. We were more just proud of ourselves for not being bigots.
What I do remember was that having gay friends was a pretty cool thing back then because they seemed to collect cute female friends. It was even better after we graduated and he moved to San Francisco and I would go visit. He had so many straight women in his office who were desperate to meet normal straight guys, who were apparently in short supply in late 1980s San Francisco. He introduced me to more women than I ever met back home in Portland, and then, especially Alaska. I understand that the demographics have completely flipped these days with so many straight tech-bro programmer types in San Francisco and not enough eligible straight women.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@cope: Reminds me of a Unitarian congregation we used to belong to, where the beloved, long-retired former minister came out to his congregation in a letter mailed to all members. Probably in the 90s to the best of my memory.
Starfish
@Kent: The word pan has been around since I was in graduate school more than 15 years ago. Some of the non-binary stuff is newer.
Dan B
@Major Major Major Major: Thanks. I went through some terrible periods. I arrived in Chicago soon after the 68 Democratic Convention. Mayor Daley had “cleaned up” the city. All the gay bars were raided. People’s names were published. There were suicides. Careers and marriages were ended. Still it was a wonderful time because we were making progress. The times were very exhilarating. Today we are heading in a terrible direction and it’s not certain we’ll pull out of this tailspin. Even if we dodge the bullet we will need to address things like inadequate regulation of disinformation. We live in interesting times.
Steeplejack
@Delk:
It goes the other way, too. In the before times my brother and I would occasionally take a day trip to see some scenery, try a new restaurant and maybe stop at an antiques store. Sometimes I would wonder if the proprietor was thinking “They seem like a nice couple” or some such.
NotMax
@Dan B
It may not have then been employed in common parlance there but I suspect it wasn’t alien terminology either.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I’m thinking now about one of my favorite teachers, my language teacher (French and Latin) in high school, late 60s/early 70s. He was flamboyantly, obviously gay, but I had no clue. To my clueless self, it was just the way he was. I don’t know how many years after high school it took me to finally figure it out.
He was frequently in trouble with the headmaster (yeah, it was the kind of school that had a “headmaster”) but it was usually for exposing us to some Latin passage with racy content, leading to a parent complaint.
Delk
@Dan B: do you know if there is any truth to the rumor that the raids stopped because one of Daley’s kids got pulled in?
Chyron HR
Well, okay, I’m a transgender woman. ?
prostratedragon
Not the happiest lyric, but Andy Bey singing Billy Strayhorn, both out from long ago, is a real bonanza.
JPL
@Major Major Major Major: Sam is such a beautiful cat, and this comes from a dog lover.
JPL
@gene108: HAH just sayin
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Friend and I, both financially lean at the time (and just friends) nevertheless had a tradition of once a month trying out upscale eateries.
If there wasn’t someplace new to us to check out we could agree upon we’d default to a favorite nearby spot. It might have been months or occasionally years since our last sojourn there yet the owner would always nod in greeting and shoot us a “So nice to see you’re still a couple” look.
;)
Baud
I’ve heard more shoutouts to coming out on pop radio this year than I ever have before.
JPL
@Dan B: Although we are moving slowly, the country is changing. My sons are not gay, but they understood what the Obergefell decision meant to human rights. When their coworkers shed tears of happiness, they did too. We can’t go backwards. My nephew is trans and is getting married in the spring in Chicago. I hope to be able to go.
Mudbrush
Exactly this. Thirty years after coming out as trans, I can’t believe how miserable I was living a lie.
PaulB
I first came out in the early 1980s, to a BFF in college, someone I hung out with all the time, someone this shy, socially awkward introvert could easily talk to, could visit the pub with, could sit by the bank of the river with at 3:00 in the morning, drinking beer and just being.
It was one of those drinking-by-the-riverbank nights when, out of the blue, he asked me if I was gay. I was terrified but decided he deserved to know the truth, so I said I was. We talked about it for a few minutes and he told me he was totally cool with it.
I never saw or spoke to him again after that night. He wasn’t home when I came by and he wouldn’t answer his phone or reply to my messages and he stopped going to the pub we had visited often. I tried half a dozen times and gave up.
It took me years to gather the courage to come out again, also to a close friend. He told me he had known for a long time and was just waiting for me to decide to tell him. He also told me that nothing had changed and that I was still the same person I was before I told him. He meant it. Bless friends like that.
One thing that I failed to consider when I was younger is that it never stops. Unless you want to walk around with an “I’m gay!” sign on your back, you have to think about this with every new acquaintance, every new colleague, every new neighbor: when and how do you tell them?
It’s easier when you’re married, I think, since your spouse will naturally be part of any conversation you have, will attend office parties with you, is visible to your neighbors. But if you’re single, you either have to pick a day like today, or you have to try to drop hints (“Say, did you see that Gay Men’s Chorus concert yesterday?”), or you have to buy a lot of rainbow-colored items, or you have to just drop it into the conversation willy-nilly (“Yeah, the game last night was awesome. Oh, by the way, I’m gay.”)
I’m still a shy, socially-awkward introvert, so none of this is ever easy for me. Thankfully, those in the generations that followed me are generally doing oh so much better.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Kent:
This is hilarious to me, because I (straight cis woman) moved to SF in the late 80s, when I was in my late 20s. I had heard a lot of “you’ll never find a guy there” warnings, but I had dates and relationships aplenty and eventually met Monsieur Colette, who is an SF native and seems pretty normal despite being straight. I guess it depends on individual circumstances.
I hope this makes sense: Happy coming out day to those for whom it’s a happy occasion and here’s to the day when it’s a total non-occasion.
Steeplejack
I don’t remember my brother having a “coming out” moment, although there probably was one—or several. He was only nine years old when I left for college at age 17, and after that we mostly kept up through sporadic family get-togethers. I started to suspect that he was gay when he was in college and med school. Confirmation was when his “roommate” moved with him to Florida when he went into the Air Force after his residency. My girlfriend and I visited them soon after, and everything was cool.
Years later he told me that it didn’t go too awfully with our parents. Dad (career Air Force doctor) was very concerned about possible negative effects on Bro’ Man’s career, but I don’t think he had a big problem with the gayness. (My memory growing up was that Dad was remarkably open-minded about a lot of stuff, especially given his career path.) Mom was less accepting, and I remember a stretch when every time I visited my parents she would take me aside at some point to fret about Bro’ Man’s “lifestyle.” And I would say, “It’s not his lifestyle; he was born that way.” I think she finally got over it because she really liked my brother’s partner (at the time). She also really likes the husband now, which is good. And everybody’s views have evolved (more or less) as society has changed. She complains about other stuff, of course. Moms.
After my brother got out of the Air Force (four years as payback for med school) he moved to D.C., which was already becoming something of a gay mecca (or at least gay-accepting).
End of vastly oversimplified family history.
Suzanne
@Kent: Spawn the Elder is trans and attracted to, well, whatever, and he sounds much like your daughter. “Lesbian” is more of an age cohort than a sexuality. He doesn’t even typically identify as anything other than “gaygaygay” or “supergay”.
FelonyGovt
I’m terrified of the apparent threat to same-sex marriage. I thought that was over and done with. What happens to married couples in red states?
I’m a straight ally with a gay daughter who came out to us at age 14. How brave she had to be to do that.
Sister Golden Bear
@Yutsano: I’m also sad to see “lesbian” falling out of favor among women-loving-women. As you’ve noted, it’s a got long history behind it.
I think part of is that “gay” is moving back to an umbrella term, much as it was in the Stonewall era Partly it seems to be The Youngs are much more flexible in both sexual identities and gender identities, so it’s as a reaction against older lesbians (I.e. women my age), who more likely to police “lesbian” identity (I.e. both bi-erasure and TERFy-ness).
Interestingly though, I have seen “sapphic” used by a couple online groups started by The Youngs.
raven
@Steeplejack: Huh, I have a good friend who was an AF OBGYN and his son is also an MD. I don’t know when he “came out” but we went to his wedding (held during a Dawg game!) and he and John are very happy.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
They’re jealous of his calm beauty !!!
I learned that a woman I loved was mostly gay in — well a long time ago, 1968 maybe? Which wasn’t a surprise exactly, but it opened my eyes and mind right up. She died last year of ovarian cancer. I still miss her… tears.
Steeplejack
@PaulB:
Ugh, that’s awful about your college friend. But good on your for being true to yourself.
Dan B
@Delk: I don’t know about a Daley kid but there were a number of prominent people who got caught. Alan Ginsburg was the most famous. If the Chicago police were in character there would have been lots of abuse.
When we held the dance outside the safety of the University of Chicago our attorney, Rene Hanover, got at least 30 ACLU attorneys (I recall the number 90 but don’t think they were all there.) to follow any people to Cook County Jail because the risk of rape was so high. We had the same thing at the American Psychiatric Association action. Chicago Police and jails were notorious for abusing young crime victims, or anyone unlucky to be in the wrong place.
JPL
@NotMax: That’s funny.
Belafon
You’re both gay? So much for opposites attract. /sarc
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Suzanne: I envy how easily young people navigate a world I often feel inept at. I am a person of good will but I’m also a product of the patriarchy, and I’m not always pleased with myself.
Major Major Major Major
@FelonyGovt: the Dems should just pass a bill “on day one” codifying Obergfell and Roe and Griswold and fixing the Obamacare typo if necessary and anything else we’re worried about from the courts. Those laws would be popular nowadays.
raven
@Dan B: And then there was Louie’s Fun Lounge in Maywood. A teacher from my school lost his job after this raid.
Jacqueline Squid Onassis
Too true. I knew I wanted to transition in the summer of 18 when I realized the mastectomy the prior summer had taken me in the opposite direction of where I wanted to be. I cannot tell you how much I was afraid when it came time to tell my wife. She responded, “I wondered when you’d figure that out.”
There was almost as much fear the first time I went out in a dress and wearing makeup. You know what? People treated me exactly the way I wanted. Even during a long weekend in Northern Indiana.
Part of it was not really knowing (since trans wasn’t a thing when I was a kid, wasn’t viable for me when I was a late teen, wasn’t an option in my 20s during a terrible 1st marriage and again when I was in my 30’s and found a terrific 2nd marriage). I wasn’t allowed to know. But I figured it out eventually and have never been happier.
JanieM
@PaulB: Sad, about the friend who ghosted you. Old hurts leave a trail.
*****
@Steeplejack: how I do hate that word “lifestyle”! Glad to say I don’t run across it very often anymore.
*****
@Sister Golden Bear:
I didn’t just lack the words, I pretty much lacked the entire concept. I was raised Catholic, by one prudish Catholic parent and one even more prudish Baptist parent. I barely knew sex existed, of any variety. The girls I had crushes on were just, in the only framing I could give it, people I wanted to be best friends with.
Thank goodness I made the (ostensibly unrelated) decision to go far away, and to a city, to college. After that it didn’t take very long.
Kent
This.
Progressives have left a ton of rights out there just hanging on court decisions and not backed up by statute.
It is one thing, for example, to argue that a right to marriage is not found in the Constitution.
It is entirely another thing to argue that the Constitution forbids gay marriage. Not saying that an arch conservative SCOTUS won’t try to make that argument. But it’s a much bigger lift.
Same thing with abortion.
Dan B
@raven: Interesting note about Mattachine Midwest. I went to one of their meetings in 1970. It was mostly social and they showed a movie reel by some guy from LA. It was of some guy running naked in the early AM. Embarrassing cause the bouncing bits aren’t intriguing, sad.
By 1969 there were only 4 gay bars and one underage club. All but one were operated by the mafia. They were like bars with suffocating rules and young goons waiting tables. Prices were outrageous. I hear it’s changed a lot. /s
Major Major Major Major
@Kent: the conservatives have been trying to get a 6-3 ultra conservative majority for decades, because we’ve decided not to codify these things, and we don’t actually have to play along.
JanieM
@FelonyGovt:
I’m a pessimist (always catastrophizing, according to a friend of mine :-), but I never thought we could count on it being over and done with. When we had our first gay rights referendum in Maine in 1995, I had a dream in which I was in a line along with a lot of other gay people, and we were being put into train cars to be taken away. Obviously I hope my subconscious was all wrong, but there’s a lot of work yet to be done, both in relation to LGBTQ issues and in relation to…pretty much everything. As we all know after the past few years.
raven
@Dan B: I went in the Army in 66 and was not really aware of what was what stateside. I will say I had gay friends everywhere I went in the Army and it never seemed to be an issue
ETA I guess this is what you are talking about
History: Chicago’s Stonewall: The Trip Raid in 1968
Baud
@Kent:
@Major Major Major Major:
I want the Dems to set up a judicial task force whose job it is to identify bad court decisions and fix them by statute immediately.
ETA
Not limited to civil rights decisions.
Ruckus
I remember finding out my sister was gay almost 50 yrs ago. She was an open spirit, so it really wasn’t all that much of a surprise. Her first and only partnership lasted 8 yrs, her partners friendship lasted a lifetime. Both are gone now, much to the worlds loss. And mine.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: oh yeah, toss in the fixes that Roberts suggested in Shelby.
Kent
For the most part the kids really are all right. I think back to my early adult years in the 1980s and the gay friends I had and so forth. And on reflection, it was really all about ME, as a straight guy becoming comfortable with men who liked men. The idea of sleeping with a guy kind of made my skin crawl so it was a matter of getting past MY issues and accepting that my gay friends were just wired different. Upon reflection, I don’t think I really spent much time at all thinking about what THEY were going through. It was more about me being proud of myself for being “tolerant”. I think that attitude was pretty common.
I look at my daughters and their mindset is so much different. One is LGBT and the the other two are very straight. They are all about support. It’s a completely different mindset.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl:
Very much, please! [forehead slap]
raven
@Kent: Ha! I have a gay niece and I really tried to get my mom to not focus on the sex. “She found someone she loves and she loves her. What more do you want for her”???
Major Major Major Major
@raven: it makes sense that some people would fixate on sex and genitals but it’s also suuuuper weird.
Betty Cracker
@Yutsano: The history should be honored, but I get why the youngs are ditching the term. It sounds like a regional identity. :)
Delk
@Dan B: Renee is legendary. I heard her name and read her columns many times. She’s in the Chicago LGBT Hall of Fame.
raven
@Major Major Major Major: Southern Illinois coal miners daughters born in the 30’s may not have had a wide world view.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
One more note on my general cluelessness: For many years I have sung in a chorus here in Philadelphia. When I first joined, there was an older lady named Barbara Gittings who sat next to me. She was ill with cancer, sung as long as her health let her, but eventually succumbed.
I only found out at her memorial service that she was a giant in gay rights.
As I said, clueless.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
I met a man at the VA during cancer treatment. He wore a superbowl ring and all the other guys in the room knew him from the sports pages. He’d been a Marine pilot in Vietnam, a successful NFL player and had more medical issues than one man should ever have, that can all be traced back to football. He’s not the only NFL player I’ve run across in my life and everyone of them has had major injuries. I was told in 95 that I needed a knee replacement – wasn’t done due to my age. I’m still managing. Every NFL player I’ve run across has had knee and/or hip replacements at younger ages because they had to. That Marine pilot said he wouldn’t trade that part of his life for anything. Seems strange to me. But that’s one reason why I worked in pro sports rather than participated.
Uncle Cosmo
@Steeplejack: Just FTR, in Baltimore, there’s no chance of confusion: Here a paramour is what you use to mow the lawn, hon.
Sandia Blanca
@Ramalama: OMG, what a great story! Thank you for the laugh.
SaltWaterCleanse
“Portrait of a Lady on Fire,” recommend by BGinCHI… Holy smokes!!!
I was expecting a film about art (and was not disappointed); but shit-oh-dear, the lesbian love story was SO GOOD! Damn.
West of the Rockies
Silly OT/Carlinesque word question. We have the words background and foreground.
You can have “forefront”, too.
What is the opposite of forefront? Aftback? Backrear?
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
Nothing whatsoever against the organization but Daughters of Bilitis was an odd and obscure choice of name.
WaterGirl
@SaltWaterCleanse: Then you must not have watched the video trailer I had in that thread! :-)
edit: I’m glad you liked it! I thought the trailer was compelling. BG will be glad you loved the movie.
Brachiator
Some years ago, I was attending a tax law update seminar when the new rules relating to gay people being allowed to file federal returns as married filing joint was discussed. There were a lot of good questions asked, and it just felt good to see a bunch of nerdy ass CPAs and tax professionals deal with the issue matter-of-factly without any murmurs of disapproval or opposition.
Large victories can come from lots of small steps, I think.
NotMax
@West of the Rockies
Rearward.
:)
Another Scott
@Ruckus: It’s a horrible sport. It grinds up men, objectifies women, makes cities subservient to billionaires, glorifies drinking and boorish behavior, and has host a of other bad issues associated with it.
I kept up with the Bears when they were good, decades ago, but even then I always cringed when McMahon would smash his head against the other players and they’d laugh and laugh about seeing “stars”. Haha. :-/ Then he was in those commercials a few years ago and it seemed he was hardly able to function because of his dementia.
Oh, and seeing Tim Krumrie’s leg flop around like a rubber band in SB 23.
It’s too dangerous a sport, and people like Madden who glorified the violence of it made it much, much worse, IMHO.
(Just my opinion, of course. Stick around, raven.)
Fin.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ramalama
@NotMax: I played with a volleyball team through Daughters of Bilitis, and I always chafed at the name. Everyone just referred to the group as “DOB” but I called it Daughters of Bursitis.
Things were very limited back then. And when I came out I was very young compared to most of the women. It was a different, delayed era.
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
I use partner because that’s what all the gay people I’ve met over the decades used, probably because they couldn’t marry. I didn’t actually know there was a stigma attached to the word. The concept that one couldn’t legally be in a relationship has been a horrible thing that people did to others. Remember that it used to be extremely difficult to get out of a marriage as well. People with small world views make life difficult for everyone that isn’t like them. Which thankfully isn’t everyone.
raven
@Another Scott: what the fuck does this have to do with “coming out day?
Ramalama
@Sandia Blanca: Thank you for laughing. It’s nice to have distance so that I can marvel at how dumb I was. I’m still dumb. But different.
Baud
@Ramalama:
So did you get put on the registry?
Another Scott
@raven: Threads morph, especially Open Threads. I was replying to Ruckus.
Yutsano started it. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Another Scott: GO DAWGS!
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
That’s why it normally takes so long to make necessary changes in life, many people resist change – because they have a narrow world view and seemingly think that change makes them wrong. It might but that’s the cost of living, of not being in charge of everyone else.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
Are you 12?
Or 6?
NotMax
Reminder that if you’ve been putting off a possible purchase, Prime Day sales are on the 13th and 14th. Couldn’t hurt to check on price reductions.
Brachiator
@Kent:
It may not be a huge lift for the Court to say that it is unconstitutional to prevent states from regulating marriage laws as they see fit.
I am not a lawyer and try to avoid pretending to be one on the Internet, but I don’t see that federal statutes can always get around Supreme Court challenges.
Another Scott
@Ruckus: I wish. Maybe.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Ruckus: And it’s not just NFL players, most of the guys I know who played at Illinois have mobility issues. . . so do I.
Miss Bianca
@Ramalama: Oh, dear God – I feel badly laughing as hard as I am at that story. Maybe it’s just because I’ve done hotline work before. Hope you don’t mind that that guy has probably been dining out on that story for years! ; )
raven
@NotMax: Have you seen “The Morning Show”? Really good .
NotMax
@raven
Nope. New to these ears.
Miss Bianca
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Didn’t someone write a little song about the POSSLQ? “Something something will you/be my POSSLQ?”
So romantic!
Citizen Alan
@Major Major Major Major:
It took me a while to grok the use of “partner” on the Great British Baking Show, and I finally realized that it referred to couples (regardless of gender) who live together outside of matrimony. I’d assume it was how they referred to gay couples until a few seasons back when they referred to a lesbian baker’s “wife” and a male baker’s female “partner” in the same segment.
raven
@NotMax: Jennifer Anniston, Reese Witherspoon, Steve Carell, Billy Crudup. Four primetime Emmy’s but it’s on Apple TV+ so it’s way under the radar. It’s all cutthroat-me-too and incredibly well written.
Ruckus
@MagdaInBlack:
How did the dad take it?
If you don’t mind me asking?
Kent
NFL does the National Coming Out Day. They just played this commercial during the game I’m watching. Pretty good and certainly not something you could remotely imagine even 5 years ago.
https://youtu.be/a9P5qOYgAAs
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: Aren’t we all? :-)
VeniceRiley
@Steeplejack: Yes we still use wife. I wouldn’t want to come out as a young lesbian in this environment. There is a shunning unless you say you’re pan or whatever, and an automatic assumption that you’re, to use the pejorative flung about above, a TERF.
Citizen Alan
I’m 51 and I’ve been grappling with issues of sexuality since my teens if not earlier. I have finally come to the reasonably firm decision that I am an asexual/homoromantic. I base that on my personal experience that when I see two good-looking naked guys making it, my reaction is “that’s hot.” But when I see those same two guys having sex, my reaction is “that looks tiring. And probably sticky.”
That said, I suppose it’s possible that I might someday meet the right guy who could draw me into a sexual relationship and I’d enjoy it. It just ain’t happening in North Mississippi. Perhaps after my mom passes and I can finally move, I’ll meet someone in the old folks home.
zhena gogolia
@Ramalama:
That is a great story.
Baud
@Brachiator:
There may come a time when we will be forced to ignore a Supreme Court decision.
Poe Larity
The fake crowd track on the Fox NFL 49’ers v Dolphins is so loud I can’t understand a word the announcers are saying.
Am conflicted, maybe Fox will stay this way for a month. Might be a great design for a new hearing aid that filters out any Fox broadcast with white noise. Could distribute free in red states.
Yutsano
@Kent: Heh. I look at that commercial and wonder WTF is Gronk waiting for? And no I’m not just wishing here. I would bet 500 quatloos that boy is bi as the day is long.
Ramalama
@Baud: This was BEFORE the intranetz. So no – no marketing mailing I’m TEH GAY registry.
But in Canada? I moved to be with my now-spouse. We got married in Canada, I convert things from Imperial to Metric. People tell me my French accent is cute or terrible. OK.
When we got married a whole bunch of my people drove up to the wedding. Same border crossing. By the time my uncle got to the window, giving out his passport, and reason for visiting he said, “My niece is getting married.” The border guard said, “You mean Ramalama and the Director’s wedding?”
“Why yes,” he said.
My uncle made it up to our house and told us the border knew our names. “How?” he asked.
I’m in the CANADIAN REGISTRY.
Ramalama
@Miss Bianca: I aim to please.
I hope that guy has been dining out on my story! Otherwise I won’t get my spicy barbecue wings.
Baud
@Ramalama:
We need socialized wedding gifts in the U.S.
OzarkHillbilly
In the very best of ways, and I mean this with all my heart, I don’t care. May you live long enough to see a time when the majority feel the same.
J R in WV
@Ramalama:
I thot everyone signed up for a wedding registry?!
We didn’t, but we didn’t understand that formal weddings were all about getting housekeeping gifts, mostly!
… … ;~)
Ruckus
@PaulB:
Had an opposite of shy event happen once. Went with a women I had just started dating to a sunday brunch. 12-14 or so people at the tables pulled together, the only person I knew was my date, but most of the people knew each other. Across the table was a guy, who was trying obviously to act “gay.” But he kept giving me a difficult time as being an anti gay person, even though he didn’t know me. I finally had had enough so said, just loud enough that he could hear me, We all know you are gay, it’s fine, none of us care, but we’d like to eat our meals. He was stunned that I called him out on his BS but invited us to his house. We went and had a great time, and discussed that not everyone actually cares about your sexuality, no matter which way it goes. I find that the only people who actually care in a negative way are conservatives who think their world will fall completely apart if everyone does not back up their views of life, liberty and propriety.
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
I tend to use “partner” for any unmarried couples, and “spouse” for any married couples.
And of course I use whatever designation the people involved prefer.
NotMax
@raven
Brachiator
@Baud:
I don’t understand what this means in practical terms. There are states that have made abortion all but impossible, with the connivance of court rulings. It’s one thing to ignore the Court. It’s something else to help people positively assert their rights.
Ruckus
@raven:
I consider college football prep school for the NFL. Doesn’t NFL stand for NoFucksLeft? I’m kidding…..
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Much love to everyone on this thread. Here’s to love, human rights, and justice for all!
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
I always thought I was 14.
12 was such a pretentious age.
Poe Larity
@Ramalama: That is a great story. Back in the day, it wasnt clear to me what places were straight or gay (there was no registry!). My first two female friends at college friends dragged me out to the venues, and being bi-curious and musically inclined they went to the gay clubs – because obviously, country boy, that’s where the good music was.
It was enlightening in many ways, and the crowd tolerated shy safe-straight-boy escort. In one night, I learned there were a lot of gays, they were nice, maybe I was more attractive than I thought I was, and how my friends could be so much more comfortable without the mass of drunken college guys groping them at a straight bar.
raven
@Ruckus: Not For Long
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: I thought it was the No Fun League.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Zack Prescott just broke his ankle in half.
Aleta
@Major Major Major Major: That sounds like you read an article, took the easiest take, or don’t have wider experience or reading.
Aleta
@Sister Golden Bear: Thanks.
Another Scott
@raven:
Cheers,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl: Yes, please, to suggested edit!
Ramalama
@J R in WV: As a GAY I had no formal training in how to be a bride. How to get married. Our vows were written by the Director’s sister who was stoned. We had a very high-up Canadian official attend our wedding (friend) and we told her to translate the sister’s ramblings to English. She threw her hands up many times. I got reamed out by my friend the American wedding planner. She said “Why didn’t you tell me you needed help?” I said, “I thought we were ok.”
We were not ok.
She sent children off to get wild flowers. She directed people to do stylistic things. It was incredible what she did.
We had no idea. No training!
Ruckus
@raven:
Fucking Ouch!
That can not be good. Have a buddy who broke his foot in 35-40 pieces, jamming it between a large rock and a motorcycle. And yes he was wearing proper boots. He talked the local hospital into putting it in a cast as was and jumped on a plane back home, where he knew a great ortho surgeon. We had the same doc and the doc told me that it was like a jig saw puzzle, bones and fragments everywhere, but where they belonged. A few months later he walked as if nothing had ever happened. Same doc fixed my shoulder and it works better than the OEM version ever did.
Hope the same for Zack.
Jay
Shitty day, day two of isolation, crappy motel, crappy food so far, internet is spotty,
Miss my Wife, my cats, my coworkers,
But I found something that made me happy in this shit time and ‘splains how I have felt since a child,
WaterGirl
@Jay: I must have missed the backstory. I take it you have been exposed to someone who is COVID positive? Very sorry to hear that.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
young, (23 years old) Syrian Refugee girl at my work, got murdered through exposure to a Covidiot. 3 weeks.
we ( co workers) buried her by hand on Friday. Not a lot of people want to wash a Covid body, and make the 24 hour rule her faith requires.
So I did.
“I will be brutal and relentless,
and ride at their side”.
Steeplejack
@WaterGirl:
Back-story here.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
sorry if I am short, shitty day.
JanieM
@Jay: I can’t speak for WaterGirl, but reading the link Steeplejack provided, I’d say you can be a short as you like. What an awful, sad story. I’m crying for Samaya, for you and your coworkers, for the life she might have had. Will be thinking about you as these next two weeks pass.
Jay
@JanieM:
thank you, I didn’t get to thank everybody yesterday, or the day before, but I want to.
shit days just keep coming.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
sort of reposting,
Samaya joined the Company about two years before I did,
She joined the Corporate Homelessness ( unhoused) program from day 1. So, did I.
A bunch of our partners remembered me. It blew her away.
I havn’t been here in 20 years.
I pointed out that there were a bunch of different levels where you can help.
Advocacy, food banks, employment, street medics.
Hands on, has more impact.
She got her certs, followed me as a Street Medic. I only got to work with her, about a dozen times. I am old, cranky, short. She was love and light.
I will miss her, forever.
Mustang Bobby
Big disappointment when I came out to my parents. Mom looked at dad and chuckled and said, “You owe me five bucks.”
JanieM
@Mustang Bobby: Probably no one will ever see this comment, but that’s the best coming out story ever.
Steeplejack
@JanieM:
Agreed.
WaterGirl
@Jay: That’s commitment. I’m sure you took all the precautions possible while you did it. Even so, it’s a long waiting game.
SWMBO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Mpw_mVVlA
tamiasmin
@Major Major Major Major: “Cis” and “trans” are opposites, but there’s a little more to it. “Cis means “on the near side of,” and “trans” is “on the far side of.” They often designate two sides of a geographical feature, such as a mountain range or a river. And that depends on where the speaker is located. It’s clear enough for the Alps, but perhaps less clear for gender identity. For that, the near side seems to be defined by a person’s conforming to or departing from what’s on the birth certificate.