Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

No Justins, No Peace

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

He really is that stupid.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

We’re not going back!

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

White supremacy is terrorism.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Another Election-Watching Thread : Yup, It’s A Marathon

Another Election-Watching Thread : Yup, It’s A Marathon

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(Louis DeJoy may not be going to jail, unfortunately, but he *is* going to be made very, very miserable for the next few years.)

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109Comments

  3. 3.

    piratedan

    AZ reporting with 79% in…

    Biden by 160k
    Kelly at 200k
    Tiperneni in AZ CD6 still in the lead

  4. 4.

    Kent

    @Winston:Well I guess 400 EV is off the table. I can’t tell you how bad I feel right now.

    Honestly who gives a fuck.  Bush and Trump both proved that you can marshal every damn bit of presidential power even with a popular vote loss.  Biden has just as much power with a 1 vote EV victory as a 200 vote EV victory.

    Winning is all that counts.

  10. 10.

    James E Powell

    @Burnspbesq:

    What is the best source for information on outstanding votes, etc?

    Right now, the NYT map is showing Trump leading in WI, MI, & PA by huge numbers. Are there enough outstanding to overcome those?

    A lot of people say yes, but I don’t know where they are getting their numbers.

  14. 14.

    guachi

    @Burnspbesq: Yup. The vote trickling in from WI, MI, and PA are from Trump leaning areas.

    In GA the little we see is ever so slightly above what Biden needs to make up the deficit, which is why the NYT has Biden ahead in GA by a very small  amount.

  15. 15.

    sdhays

    @James E Powell: The AP has Trump only up by 4 in Wisconsin. 9 in Michigan. The people who study this shit seem to think that what’s not counted is going to be plenty to win those. Apparently there’s just too much still out in Pennsylvania to know.

    His lead is starting to shrink in Georgia. I guess Atlanta is starting to report.

  17. 17.

    Winston

    @Kent: I really should not give a fuck. I may have one or two more presidential elections in my life. If I can’t make a difference now, it’s not up to me with my single vote. It’s up to the young, the POC, the latinos. I won’t be around to help. The old won’t be a factor. What really pisses me off is what I have to look forward to, sitting alone in my trailer for the next ten or twelve years trying not to get sick.

  18. 18.

    PsiFighter37

    @rikyrah: Unlikely…these models can’t predict behavioral voting, so who knows how it turns. I am not counting on Georgia, but I do think it is going to be much closer than expected.

    That said, I would rather be in our shoes than theirs. I do not think, especially with AZ and NE-02 in our pockets, that SCOTUS is going to try and tilt things at this point.

  19. 19.

    James E Powell

    @sdhays:

    The people who study this shit seem to think that what’s not counted is going to be plenty to win those.

    People have been saying that all over the internet all night. I just wondered if those numbers were available for viewing by us ordinary people.

  20. 20.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Kent: Winning is all that counts.

    Elsewhere in the world of democracies 50% + 1 is a win. If you win, you rule.

    I don’t understand this Democratic obsession with legitimacy coming from landslides. Republicans don’t even need majorities for their legitimacy.

    Now, can someone give me some good news about the Senate?

  24. 24.

    Kent

    @Winston:@Kent: I really should not give a fuck. I may have one or two more presidential elections in my life. If I can’t make a difference now, it’s not up to me with my single vote. It’s up to the young, the POC, the latinos. I won’t be around to help. The old won’t be a factor. What really pisses me off is what I have to look forward to, sitting alone in my trailer for the next ten or twelve years trying not to get sick.

    I’m just saying that moral victories mean nothing.  All that matters is actual victory.   I’ll take any path to victory that presents and celebrate unreservedly.

  25. 25.

    NotMax

    @James E Powell

    Gobs (forgive the technical term) of mail-in/absentee votes in PA aren’t to begin to be counted until early Wednesday (by law). And military ballots are still allowed to trickle in until sometime later in the month.

  27. 27.

    James E Powell

    @Burnspbesq:

    Both the NYT and Arizona Republic have been stuck at 79% of the votes counted for over an hour. I was wondering how FOX got their information to call it for Biden.

  30. 30.

    eric

    @NotMax: the delta is 1,000,000 between registered  D and registered R mail in ballots (assigning more NPAs to the Rs)….that is what the litigation will be over…

  31. 31.

    PsiFighter37

    Colin Peterson lost at long last – the last of the ultra-conservative Democrats in the House,. He served well, and honestly, I would not mind putting him as Secretary of Agriculture if Biden wins…that seat was in our hands far longer than we deserved.

  33. 33.

    Hellbastard

    CNN reporter just said there are at least roughly one million mail in votes in Penn. that need to be counted from blue areas. And it doesn’t include Philly. And Biden is up in Nevada. Georgia tightening.

  34. 34.

    Kent

    @PsiFighter37:Colin Peterson lost at long last – the last of the ultra-conservative Democrats in the House,. He served well, and honestly, I would not mind putting him as Secretary of Agriculture if Biden wins…that seat was in our hands far longer than we deserved.

    He’s 76.  Good guy I’m sure.  But we need to cultivate a new bench for the next round.

  36. 36.

    frosty

    I’m TRYING to read the posts and the comment, but by the time I get to my pithy, excellent, awesome comment, I’m two posts behind.

    So I’m trying to jump ahead, For semi-intelligent comments, scroll back aways!

  39. 39.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Eolirin: OK. Is there a Republican senator from a blue state that Biden could invite into his cabinet?

    Also, leave Warren where she is.

  40. 40.

    janesays

    @Winston: Given the results we’ve seen thus far, it was clearly never really on the table.

    But victory is definitely on the horizon. Won’t be the blowout any of us were hoping for, but a win is a win is a win, and if Biden wins by an EV margin of 270-268, that’s still ten bajillion times better than any outcome where this stupid orange fucknugget gets another four years to taint the White House.

  41. 41.

    Mart

    I think slamming ACB into SCOTUS was the October surprise never talked about. Have evangelical aquaintices who changed their mind. Miami Dade support collapsed, Catholic much? Expect to see Facebook selling microdata to Cambridge Analytica2RU to Mercersly troll targets. They are really good at the skunk works. Had a friend from Haiti…

  42. 42.

    Kent

    I’m kind of surprised that Biden’s lead is LARGER in AZ than NV right now with about the same percent counted.

  43. 43.

    James E Powell

    @NotMax:

    As I type this, Biden is down 700K in PA, 300K in MI, and 107K in WI.

    Are there that many Democratic votes outstanding?

  44. 44.

    hueyplong

    @Kent: I think rural NV counties reported first.

    I was a NV resident for the 1980 disaster and the state’s irritating love of Laxalt.

  47. 47.

    Cacti

    Trump’s plan to steal the election is going to be made decidedly more difficult by the fact that by the time most people went to bed, he was losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

  50. 50.

    PsiFighter37

    @Mart: We had no control over how long RBG would hang on, and turning Barrett’s hearing into a spectacle would have backfired even more…just see what is happening.

    The Democratic Party needs to understand how the Latino vote is evolving, because I do not think what we (or the party) understands to be Latino priorities are the same priorities now.

  51. 51.

    Kent

    After the latest vote dump in GA the NYT needle ticked back up from 59% Biden to 64% Biden.

    Yes…I’m grasping at straws.  But Trump’s lead in GA is smaller than in MI, PA, and WI right now.

  52. 52.

    PsiFighter37

    Kara Eastman lost, again, in NE-02. I hope the Bernie Bros can explain how one of their own blew a very winnable race, 2 cycles in a row.

  55. 55.

    hueyplong

    GA is still possible.  Outstanding votes are almost all from Atlanta/Macon.

    So Biden wins if he takes 2 of 4 of these:

    WI, MI, PA, GA

  56. 56.

    Cacti

    So, what’s the story with North Carolina, who’s been stuck at 95% reporting for the last 2 hours?

  58. 58.

    Eolirin

    The senate situation is extremely terrifying to me. We really needed to get to at least 50. The path there is getting increasingly improbable.

  60. 60.

    Kent

    @PsiFighter37:

    @Mart: We had no control over how long RBG would hang on, and turning Barrett’s hearing into a spectacle would have backfired even more…just see what is happening.

    The Democratic Party needs to understand how the Latino vote is evolving, because I do not think what we (or the party) understands to be Latino priorities are the same priorities now.

    I recently moved back to WA after 13 years in TX in a fairly Hispanic area.   At least in TX much of the Hispanic vote is suburban families working in the construction trades or owning small business, driving big American pickups, and often attending evangelical churches.  Basically your white working class but not quite so white.  And a whole bunch of people who pay their taxes by the quarter, which focuses your attention a whole lot more than getting it pulled out of every paycheck like most of us.

    Much of the Hispanic population in TX is also from northern MX which is the conservative redneck part of Mexico that gave the Vincente Fox.

    I know nothing about CA and FL, but it doesn’t surprise me in the least that Hispanics in TX will tilt GOP, especially for any candidate not as racist as Trump.

    To turn TX blue will require the white suburban vote around the big cities to turn blue I think.  Like in other states.

  61. 61.

    PJ

    @Mart:

     

    @PsiFighter37: Miami-Dade is all about the Cubans and the Venezuelans.  Catholicism has nothing to do with it (Biden’s a Catholic, for Christ’s sake.)  The “Socialist” brush the Repubs were tarring Biden with actually worked (just think of where we’d be nationwide if someone who actually referred to himself as a “Socialist” were our candidate.)  It doesn’t help, either, when we have prominent Democrats like Sanders and AOC praising Castro and Maduro.

  62. 62.

    Quinerly

    @Cacti: I am trying to be hopeful re NC. It’s already been called as a re election for Dem Gov Cooper. His opponent was a big Trumper (and the Lt Gov) who wanted everything opened up and let Covid run wild.

  64. 64.

    NotMax

    For those wondering why Hawaii has not been called,

    Hundreds of Oahu voters are still in line to cast a ballot in person, and it could take hours more for voting to officially end ― and the first results to be released.

    Polls were set to close at 7 p.m. and anyone still in line was allowed to cast a ballot.

    But getting through the lines at Honolulu Hale and Kapolei Hale was taking hours.

    At 8:15 p.m. [45 minutes ago], elections officials said polls in Maui County, on Kauai, and in Kona had closed and those in Hilo were about to close. But the Voter Service Centers on Oahu were still open, and lines were long.

    Voters said it was taking 90 minutes or more to cast a ballot at Oahu’s Voter Service Centers, located at Honolulu Hale and Kapolei Hale. Some reported waiting upwards of two hours.

    There were also delays on the Neighbor Islands, though far less severe.

    Election Day in Hawaii started with a record number of ballots already cast ― chiefly by mail ― and long lines forming at Voter Service Centers for those looking to vote in person. And those lines continued through the day and into the evening, with thousands coming out to vote. Source

  65. 65.

    PsiFighter37

    @PJ: It’s a bigger issue than that. We need to understand what we are doing wrong in Texas and Florida vs. Nevada (where we may still underperform). Even in AZ, I bet final exit polling shows we picked up nervous suburbanites and not Hispanic voters. I honestly don’t think that passing the DREAM Act is going to move the needle. There is something bigger we need to identify.

  66. 66.

    Quinerly

    @PJ: thank you for saying this.

    The “Biden is a Socialist” has become a big thing in certain circles. Especially in the South.

  67. 67.

    ballerat

    @Kent: This.

    I too wanted an undeniable repudiation. But when it comes down to it, a win is a win.

    That’s the mindset we need. Win by 1 and we have a mandate. Do it.

  68. 68.

    Ksmiami

    @PsiFighter37: I hate to be mean but aside from Florida (Cubans) education has a lot to do with why Dems haven’t made as many Latino inroads. Additionally, it’s a very religious group

  69. 69.

    PsiFighter37

    The bigger failure of this race is downballot. This was our chance to control redistributing where we have not had a say in generations, and we failed. We are going to lose(!!!) seats in the NC House at the end of the day, and so many of the judicial and other downballot statewide races are 51-49 nail biters (not in our favor).

    It seems like we may have to wait until the next election – or next decade – for things to turn. That said, I have no hope for Florida. Having traveled there more frequently over the past few years for work…people there simply sunburn their brains out.

  70. 70.

    Kent

    @PsiFighter37:@PJ: It’s a bigger issue than that. We need to understand what we are doing wrong in Texas and Florida vs. Nevada (where we may still underperform). Even in AZ, I bet final exit polling shows we picked up nervous suburbanites and not Hispanic voters. I honestly don’t think that passing the DREAM Act is going to move the needle. There is something bigger we need to identify.

    A lot of Hispanics are essentially white working class wannabes.   Same basic culture. Big trucks, nondescript suburban and rural areas, evangelical churches, big families, etc.   At least that’s how it is in TX.  There’s also anti-Black racism to some extent.

    That’s how to think about it.

  71. 71.

    PsiFighter37

    @Ksmiami: Cool. We need to figure out how to reach and speak to them, then, because whatever the fuck we are doing now has failed miserably.

  72. 72.

    Felanius Kootea

    @eric: I was so happy to see this.  She beat Karen Handel by over 5 points this time (last time the margins were razor thin).   Incumbency does have its advantages.

  73. 73.

    James E Powell

    I’m taking everybody’s word for it and I hope when I ask about stuff I don’t sound like I’m panicking, I’m really just curious. I’m going to eat a big bowl of outmeal, drink some Irish whiskey, go to bed in a bit.

    Two things, though, that are really striking to me. First, polling is fucked up & bullshit. I do not know what they need to do, but they were not at all helpful guides. Some of that is the result of COVID, some of it is just the changes in whether or how people respond. This is the third election in a row that they’ve been really wrong about Florida.

    The second thing is, did anyone expect Joe Biden to do worse than Hillary Clinton in places like Florida or Ohio?  The NYT reported Biden lost the union vote in Ohio 56-42. I don’t know if that was union member or union household, but damn, that’s just awful. Anyway, my point is, I think we underestimated what Hillary Clinton was up against in 2016. We tended to attribute her narrow loss to various factors and maybe overlooked that this country is full of motherfuckers who really love Trump. They don’t give two shits that 230K people are dead for no good reason, or care about anything else. They love him and they hate the rest of us. This is not economic anxiety or anything other than deeply rooted tribal hatred.

    I have no idea what we can do about those people.

  74. 74.

    The Moar You Know

    The Democratic Party needs to understand how the Latino vote is evolving, because I do not think what we (or the party) understands to be Latino priorities are the same priorities now.


    @PsiFighter37    :  To explain the why of what I’m asserting would take far too long tonight as I’m tired and don’t really want to duke out the ugly details with a bunch of folks who won’t want to hear what I’ve got to say, but I’ll say this; they’re going GOP in a big way.  Which was inevitable if you understand Latino culture, which most white Americans don’t.

  75. 75.

    Kristine

    @PsiFighter37: One point gleaned from recent reading–nothing to cite, just online comments from knowledgable folks–was that socially conservative/patriarchal Hispanics and other POC are moving toward the GOP. How do Dems meet that need–that’s not where we’re headed as a party?

  76. 76.

    PsiFighter37

    Also, what the fuck has happened to white working-class people in this country. To vote broadly for a con man like Trump twice…and this time, after his negligence has killed hundreds of thousands of people? Jesus. Maybe it is time to cast the white man back into the ocean from whence they came. And especially after people in Ohio voted for Obama twice. What went wrong??? Maybe the message is we need to get a cool black dude back in charge again, because that is what white men are really jonesing for.

  78. 78.

    Ksmiami

    @PsiFighter37: send their kids to college/help address this and we will go pretty far. Plus emphasis on Republicans taking advantage of them… in essence figh goddamit

  81. 81.

    Kent

    @The Moar You Know:@PsiFighter37:  To explain the why of what I’m asserting would take far too long tonight as I’m tired and don’t really want to duke out the ugly details with a bunch of folks who won’t want to hear what I’ve got to say, but I’ll say this; they’re going GOP in a big way.  Which was inevitable if you understand Latino culture, which most white Americans don’t.

    Exactly.  And there is no one Latino culture anymore than there is one white culture in this country.

    A lot of Hispanics are essentially white working class wannabes.  And a lot are far more rural than say the Black or Asian population.  Living in small towns all across the country side by side with conservative whites.

  84. 84.

    Cacti

    @The Moar You Know:  To explain the why of what I’m asserting would take far too long tonight as I’m tired and don’t really want to duke out the ugly details with a bunch of folks who won’t want to hear what I’ve got to say, but I’ll say this; they’re going GOP in a big way.  Which was inevitable if you understand Latino culture, which most white Americans don’t.

    I’d say unforced errors by the GOP actually put that off by a decade or so. In 2004, Bush’s people spent a lot of time on Hispanic outreach, and carried 44% of their votes nationally.

    Then the nativists rebelled and took over the asylum.

  85. 85.

    Rina99

    The depths of misinformation is, if anything, understated and getting through to some minority voters. My 15 year old nephew and 21 year old cousin, both Black, came to me spouting QAnon crap they heard in gamer spaces. The sheer volume of it goes beyond Facebook and Twitter.

  86. 86.

    PJ

    @The Moar You Know: Latino culture is not a monolith.  I know it’s a cliche, but Cubans in Florida are different from Mexicans in Texas or Arizona are different from Dominicans in New York are different from Puerto Ricans in New York.  They have different interests and histories and will not necessarily vote the same.

     

    @PsiFighter37: I agree that reaching the different Latino votes in different areas of the country is an issue but it’s an opportunity as well.  I don’t live in AZ, NV, TX, or FL (and my guess is there are a lot of votes to be had in other Southern states as well), but we need to persuade them that the Democratic Party is looking out for them, while the Republicans don’t even think they should have any rights.

  87. 87.

    sanjeevs

    @Rina99: I agree. I think the frame of Hispanic voters, white union voters or whatever is an old fashioned frame for the broadcast media age.

    We’re in the social media age and its terrifying. In the UK people voted on 3 occasions for Brexit or Brexit supporting parties even though its going to be a clear disaster.

    Duterte has I think a 90% approval in the Philippines.

    Propaganda works better than at any time in history

  88. 88.

    James E Powell

    @The Moar You Know:

    I will skip details and say that you are exactly right and they already would have moved significantly into the GOP camp if every Republican was like George W Bush.

  92. 92.

    Sab

    @James E Powell: People who haven’t had Covid really don’t believe it’s a big deal. Everyone black I know has lost close family members. Hardly anyone white I know even knows anyone who has had it.

    That will probably change this winter, but that is where we are now.

  93. 93.

    Subsole

    @PsiFighter37: I lived in the RGV for a little over a decade, Waco for about 15, and Odessa for another 10.

    I keep saying it: there are a lot (NOT, I repeat NOT all) of Latinos who fucking HATE blacks, gays, immigrants  uppity women, and anyone who don’t go to the right church. They know he hates them, but he also hates who they hate.

    Also, that branch of the culture has a kind of Mexican-redneck pain-fetish. They think they can endure anything, and y’know? They may be right. Just wish they weren’t so effing callous about folks who can’t.

    I remember a good friend who voted for this trashfire in 16. I joked he was gonna end up in a camp because anglos are kinda stupid and can’t tell an immigrant from a Tejano (and because I was worried about that shit actually happening to my friend, and that’s how you express that shit where I lived).

    His response?

    “What are you white folks gonna do to us that you haven’t already tried?”

    I don’t know how you crack that.

    I do know I am fed up with respecting people who have no respect (or maybe too much respect) for themselves.

    Sorry for the rant, but if we are gonna fix this we better take a hard look at it.

    Also, whatever solution we offer is gonna have to come from that community, not anglos.

  94. 94.

    James E Powell

    @sanjeevs:

    We’re in the social media age and its terrifying. In the UK people voted on 3 occasions for Brexit or Brexit supporting parties even though its going to be a clear disaster.

    Do the voters there not see that it will be a disaster? Or are they, like some Americans, eager to produce chaos?

  97. 97.

    James E Powell

    @Sab:

    I did get the impression – totally anecdotal – that the COVID thing was not moving voters away from who they liked pre-COVID. There was a lot of talk about how seniors and women were going to vote Biden on this issue, but it sure doesn’t look like that happened in big numbers.

  98. 98.

    Ogliberal

    @Cacti: And the nativists are better today how?  And Trump is more acceptable than a McCain or Romney.  I get there is a conservative streak among many Hispanics in this country and they are not monolithic.  But I do not see the appeal with this buffon.  I mean, I don’t see how he can appeal to anybody but there’s plenty of things he said that I would think would turn-off many Hispanic voters.

  99. 99.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @James E Powell:

    What in the wide world of sports happened with Gideon?

    I’m guessing a lot of ticket splitting based on the tote bagger idea that a Republican Senate would “keep an eye on Biden”

  100. 100.

    Subsole

    @Ogliberal: Well, if it’s just a bunch of anglos sitting around discussing this, we ain’t getting anywhere.

    Any Latinos here wanna weigh in? ‘Cause this whiteboy don’t know. That’s for damn sure.

  102. 102.

    Subsole

    @James E Powell: I wanna zero in on that union vote, too. I believe it was union households, btw.

    What happened there? Wasn’t Joe’s whole selling point that he’d pull those households back?

  103. 103.

    ballerat

    @Kent: All I want to say is this, as someone who contracted in the trades and had to do my own taxes, this is legit:

    a whole bunch of people who pay their taxes by the quarter, which focuses your attention a whole lot more than getting it pulled out of every paycheck like most of us.

    Having to pay taxes by the quarter does focus the attention. I’d done white collar “knowlege worker” salary work before and after doing independent contracting work in construction, and never was I so aware of my tax burden than paying my own taxes by the quarter.

  104. 104.

    Ogliberal

    I’m fron NJ but I don’t have a great feel for South Jersey.  Anybody think that Kennedy can/will beat Van Drew.  He’s currently ahead by about 3.5 with 74% reporting.

    Of course, my Congressman, Chris Smith, won but that was never in doubt.  Just hoping he goes back to being the only GOP rep in Congress from NJ.

  105. 105.

    Subsole

    @Ogliberal:  I am anglo. I make chalk look tan. I have never in my life held a job that required a tie in the workplace. I have worked places where bowing-up on the wrong person could get you clocked with a pipe wrench. So take what I say as what it is – secondhand words and outside observation of a particular socioeconomic section of a particular culture.

    The nativists are just a fact of life, like famine or hurricane. You keep your head down, store up your fat, and live as you can. Whites gonna white. If they (or anyone, really) go after you, you battle them like a proud guerrero and live or die as a man.

    Romney? Romney was Mormon. That is…not actually Christian, to a lot of these folks. He was also a suit, and a stiff, pompous, well-off one at that. So there was an element of softness to him. And there is no sin that culture punishes worse than softness.

    The hilarious thing is Rubio or Cruz probably would have lost these folks in droves. Especially after Trump punked them.

  106. 106.

    Rina99

    @Subsole: We may need to start by retiring the idea of appealing to “Latinos” and start thinking in a much more granular manner. Beyond even Mexican, Puerto Rican, Guatemalan, etc, but Mexicans in Texas vs Mexicans in California,  or Puerto Ricans in New York vs Florida. There is no one solution, there are likely hundreds of solutions to figure out.

  107. 107.

    James E Powell

    @Ogliberal:

    But I do not see the appeal with this buffon.  I mean, I don’t see how he can appeal to anybody but there’s plenty of things he said that I would think would turn-off many Hispanic voters.

    I am a high school teacher in Los Angeles. My students are more than 80% Hispanic/Latino and 90% of their families are from Mexico. From my interactions with my students over the last fifteen years, I can tell you that there are quite a few who admire Trump’s swaggering asshole act. He does whatever he wants and says “fuck you” to anybody who doesn’t like it and he gets away with it. These are guys who are probably never going to vote for a female candidate for anything.

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