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You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 Coronavirus / A Temple Full of Sociopaths

A Temple Full of Sociopaths

by John Cole|  November 21, 20207:49 pm| 218 Comments

This post is in: COVID-19 Coronavirus

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This is astounding and infuriating:

A Hasidic synagogue in Brooklyn planned the wedding of a chief rabbi’s grandson with such secrecy it was able to host thousands of maskless celebrants without the city catching on.

Despite a surge in COVID-19 cases, guests crammed shoulder-to-shoulder inside the Yetev Lev temple in Williamsburg for the Nov. 8 nuptials — stomping, dancing and singing at the top of their lungs without a mask in sight, videos obtained by The Post show.

Organizers schemed to hide the wedding of Yoel Teitelbaum, grandson of Satmar Grand Rabbi Aaron Teitelman, from “the ravenous press and government officials,” says a detailed account in the Yiddish newspaper Der Blatt, the publication of the Satmar sect.

“Due to the ongoing situation with government restrictions, preparations were made secretly and discreetly, so as not to draw attention from strangers,” the paper reported in its Nov. 13 edition.

And they are PROUD of themselves. Seriously, fuck each and every single one of them, and I legit hope a bunch of them get sick and die. I am tired of being the bigger person, and these folks stay within their own community a good deal, so fuck them all.

There is only so much you can do to try to keep people safe.

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Reader Interactions

218Comments

  1. 1.

    MC

    November 21, 2020 at 7:51 pm

    Conservatives are ultimately all the same.

  2. 2.

    Chief Oshkosh

    November 21, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    “When it comes to BULLSHIT…BIG-TIME, MAJOR LEAGUE BULLSHIT… you have to stand IN AWE, IN AWE of the all time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion.”
    ― George Carlin

  3. 3.

    featheredsprite

    November 21, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    I hear you, John. That looks like a group auto-da-fe.

  4. 4.

    Nicole

    November 21, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    @MC:  Yeah.

  5. 5.

    hitchhiker

    November 21, 2020 at 7:55 pm

    you know, I’m starting to think religion itself is the problem.

  6. 6.

    Gozer

    November 21, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    What I don’t get about this is why?

    The insularity of the community is in part a response to constant attempts of others to wipe them out. COVID has ravaged the Haredi community…why do this? Why knowingly engage in behavior likely to further the spread of something that has been killing off members of the community?

  7. 7.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2020 at 8:00 pm

    The Satmars make the Amish look cosmopolitan.

  8. 8.

    trollhattan

    November 21, 2020 at 8:04 pm

    Yeah, religion erases the sin of sociopathy, evidently. Just great.

    So, get this. One of California’s biggest superspread event offenders is Bethel Church in Redding–deep Trump country. They preach prosperity gospel, raising the dead, speaking in tongues, the whole catalog, probably snakes. And because they aren’t controlled by man’s pesky laws they’ve had troubles with law enforcement many times during COVID. Remember the guy who tried getting away from the FBI this week using a “Thunderball” underwater scooter gambit? They caught him and he has been charged with running a Ponzi scheme. The alleged victims? Members of Bethel Church.

  9. 9.

    brantl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:04 pm

    You just can’t fix stupid, doesn’t mean anything what the specific flavor is, stupid is just lethal.

  10. 10.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:05 pm

    I wanted to see what “thousands” actually meant.  The place holds 7,700 people legally, so I bet that there could have been as many as 10k people.

    If one in a 1,000 100 is positive, then that could be 100 COVID-positive people in that room.  If we assume Hasidic populations have a higher rate because they won’t follow restrictions, then we could be looking at 200-500 people who came in COVID-positive.  Surely an extraordinarily high number of people are going to get sick, and possibly die.

  11. 11.

    Jerzy Russian

    November 21, 2020 at 8:06 pm

    Eventually this will become self limiting.  The only problem is the spread to other people who did not attend these type of events.

  12. 12.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @Jerzy Russian: The people at that wedding won’t just have been exposed, but they will also surely have been exposed to very high levels of the virus.  Which leads me to conclude that they could get much more sick than even the average person.

    Yikes.

  13. 13.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    Hoocoodanode:

    (WaPo) In scathing opinion, federal judge dismisses Trump campaign lawsuit in Pennsylvania

    The judge’s decision, which he explained in a scathing 37-page opinion, was a thorough rebuke of the president’s sole attempt to challenge the statewide result in Pennsylvania.

    Rudolph W. Giuliani, Trump’s attorney, personally took charge of the case and appeared at a hearing in Williamsport, Pa., Tuesday in an attempt to justify it. Five other attorneys who represented the president withdrew from the case.

    In his order, Brann wrote that Trump’s campaign had used “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations” in its effort to throw out millions of votes.

    “In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state,” Brann wrote.

  14. 14.

    Ken

    November 21, 2020 at 8:09 pm

    @NotMax: The Satmars make the Amish look cosmopolitan.

    Which is a neat trick, while living in New York.  I’m reminded of China Mieville’s The City & the City.

  15. 15.

    GenXFiles

    November 21, 2020 at 8:09 pm

    No one wants to be around those crazy fucks so it shouldn’t spread far.

  16. 16.

    Kent

    November 21, 2020 at 8:10 pm

    @trollhattan: and they aren’t content with just fucking up Redding CA.  They are the same church that is sending around the superspreader extraordinaire  Sean Feucht to infect every other city. https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/09/16/sean-feucht-prayer-rallies-kenosha-chicago/

  17. 17.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2020 at 8:10 pm

    Mom has stopped going to a nearby kosher supermarket (their produce really is so much better than at the regular supermarket) because some of the customers belong to the Hasidic sects which eschew masks.

  18. 18.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 21, 2020 at 8:11 pm

    @Mary G: I recommend reading the opinion. It brings tears to the eyes.

  19. 19.

    debbie

    November 21, 2020 at 8:12 pm

    @Mary G:

    Apparently they’re starting up again in Michigan clamoring for a recount — only in Detroit.

  20. 20.

    Ken

    November 21, 2020 at 8:13 pm

    @Mary G: I’m expecting one of these judges to order Rudy and the others disbarred, assuming any of them still have valid licenses.

  21. 21.

    Wolvesvalley

    November 21, 2020 at 8:13 pm

    @Mary G:

    I love this quote from the Washington Post story:

    Brann wrote on Saturday that Trump’s attorneys had haphazardly stitched this allegation together “like Frankenstein’s Monster” in an attempt to avoid unfavorable legal precedent.

  22. 22.

    Jerzy Russian

    November 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    @WaterGirl:   I would think the rate is more than 1 in 1000.  Also, I assume this was all indoors with closed windows, given that is New York in late November.   What is generally the Hasidic’s view of hospitals?  Many of them will be seeing the insides of them soon,  assuming they don’t fill up.

  23. 23.

    Lawrence Sportello

    November 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    @WaterGirl:  NYC’s site (scroll down) shows Williamsburg with a positivity of rate of 2.98%. Assuming full legal capacity of 7700, that’s about 230 active cases at the wedding.

  24. 24.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    November 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    Religious zealotry and common sense are inversely proportional.

  25. 25.

    Starfish

    November 21, 2020 at 8:16 pm

    @WaterGirl:That is what they said. It was a 10,000 people event. The Orthodox community has been a significant portion of the outbreaks in New York because of their behavior.

    Here is a story from September.

    Here is a story from April about 2500 people going to a Rabbi’s funeral.

  26. 26.

    dmsilev

    November 21, 2020 at 8:17 pm

    @Wolvesvalley: A monster made out of dildos glued together with hair dye.

  27. 27.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:17 pm

    @debbie: I hope that gets shut down.  Hard.  No delays.  Michigan needs to certify ASAP.

  28. 28.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:20 pm

    @Jerzy Russian:  oops, 1,000 was a typo for 100.  My math was right, though  one in 100 of 10,000 = 100.  Higher would be the 200-500 range.  It will be very grim.

  29. 29.

    Jerzy Russian

    November 21, 2020 at 8:20 pm

    @WaterGirl:   Yes, an indoor event with a lot of hooting and hollering.  If the numbers were really in the thousands, I think the odds that at least one person dies from COVID is 100%.   Likewise, the number of seriously sick people will easily be in the dozens.

  30. 30.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:21 pm

    @Lawrence Sportello: And I’m assuming more than capacity, because the article said they had people crammed in.  So awful.

  31. 31.

    dmsilev

    November 21, 2020 at 8:22 pm

    @debbie: Also, apparently the Trumpians are throwing sand in the gears of the Wisconsin partial recount they paid for. “Partial” being, of course, “Counties with lots of Black people” in case there was any smidgen of a doubt.

  32. 32.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:23 pm

    @Jerzy Russian: And then multiply by some number because hospitals will be full up.

  33. 33.

    Kent

    November 21, 2020 at 8:24 pm

    @debbie: where are you seeing this.  I don’t see anything on twitter about a Detroit recount.   Wayne County already certified.

  34. 34.

    SuzieC

    November 21, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: I read most of it.  Obama appointed brilliant judges.

  35. 35.

    Brachiator

    November 21, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    A Hasidic synagogue in Brooklyn planned the wedding of a chief rabbi’s grandson with such secrecy it was able to host thousands of maskless celebrants without the city catching on.

    This seems so stupid. And so ego driven. This need of the rabbi, perhaps, to stage an adulation fest, reminds me of Trump’s need for praise and to be seen as the Big Man.

    My impression of the best of Judaism is that there is much to put concern for human life foremost. This seems to disrespect that tradition.

    But also, getting down to brass tacks, how has the pandemic affected this community? Are we seeing a lot of community spread, hospitalizations, and deaths?

    And similar things are happening on a smaller scale all over the place. I keep seeing BBC news stories about secret rave parties being raided, and some reports that younger adults in Spain and France do as much as they can to flout restrictions.

    I sometimes think that this virus does not kill enough people, and not across a wide swath of all demographics, and so is not taken seriously.

     

    ETA: I do know one co-worker who had to kick his son out of the house. The kid is a nice guy, goes to college, and loves his family, but thinks he needs to party.  The co-worker, however, had to choose between his son and his aged parents, who live at home.  He said that it was an easy decision to make.

  36. 36.

    Another Scott

    November 21, 2020 at 8:25 pm

    @hitchhiker: The “conservative” Abrahamic ones seem to often have issues…  Reuters (from September):

    SEOUL (Reuters) – South Korea’s latest COVID-19 outbreak has triggered a public backlash against conservative Christian churches for defying government orders aimed at preventing the disease’s spread.

    [image]

    Rev. Jun Kwang-hoon, who is the head of the Sarang Jeil Church in Seoul, which is at the center of the new wave of infections, speaks to the media before being imprisoned in front of his church in Seoul, South Korea, September 7, 2020. Picture taken on September 7, 2020. Yonhap via REUTERS
    At least a third of the 4,500 COVID-19 cases confirmed in the greater Seoul area over the past three weeks have been traced to church members and others who attended a Aug. 15 anti-government rally, the country’s largest cluster in months.

    Authorities said quelling the outbreak was hampered by some 650 church members and 7,700 protesters avoiding or refusing testing as of Tuesday, and more than 300 congregations breaching a ban on in-person gatherings.

    Mainstream Christian figures and conservative opposition lawmakers have criticised the Sarang Jeil Church at the centre of the latest COVID-19 outbreak and other churches for spreading fake news, aggravating the COVID-19 outbreak and depleting public resources.

    […]

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  37. 37.

    Jerzy Russian

    November 21, 2020 at 8:26 pm

    Does anyone remember that superspreader event in a Korean church in the early days of the pandemic?  One woman apparently infected nearly 40 other people.   The same thing will probably happen in this event.

  38. 38.

    chopper

    November 21, 2020 at 8:28 pm

    “Due to the ongoing situation with government restrictions, preparations were made secretly and discreetly, so as not to draw attention from strangers,” the paper reported in its Nov. 13 edition.

    well that’s good for the jews. thanks, assholes.

  39. 39.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 8:28 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: Lol!

    C. Procedural History
    Although this case was initiated less than two weeks ago, it has already
    developed its own tortured procedural history. Plaintiffs have made multiple
    attempts at amending the pleadings, and have had attorneys both appear and
    withdraw in a matter of seventy-two hours. There have been at least two perceived
    discovery disputes, one oral argument, and a rude and ill-conceived voicemail
    which distracted the Court’s attention from the significant issues at hand.27

  40. 40.

    dmsilev

    November 21, 2020 at 8:29 pm

    To be fair, large swaths society at large aren’t all that much better:

    As U.S. coronavirus cases soar toward 200,000 a day, holiday travel is surging

    But more than 1 million people still passed through the country’s airports Friday in the second-highest single-day rush of travelers since the start of the pandemic, even as air travel has dropped dramatically over this time last year. On the same date in 2019, more than 2.5 million people traveled through U.S. airports.

    The data on Transportation Security Administration screenings shows that many Americans are heeding calls for caution. But the fallout from this week is expected to amp up pressure on hospitals and health-care workers at a critical time in the pandemic. Hospitalizations have soared to all-time highs, pushing state after state to enact new restrictions such as mask mandates, curfews and renewed business shutdowns.

  41. 41.

    Jerzy Russian

    November 21, 2020 at 8:29 pm

    @WaterGirl:   We need a spellchecker for math.

  42. 42.

    chopper

    November 21, 2020 at 8:30 pm

    @NotMax:

    yeah of course it’s the satmars. those guys, oy

  43. 43.

    Kent

    November 21, 2020 at 8:31 pm

    @Another Scott: Yes. They are all bad.  I grew up around the conservative Mennonite Church and even have some Amish relatives.   Trump is basically a mirror or looking glass that has exposed every single damn one of them as horrible sociopaths.  They are, to a one, all caught up in Covid denial and glorifying their religious defiance of pandemic rules.  Fuck all of them.  I used to have some tolerance of them.  No longer.

  44. 44.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    November 21, 2020 at 8:31 pm

    No words.

    None.

  45. 45.

    chopper

    November 21, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @Jerzy Russian:

    i’ve been to hasidic weddings and they’re pretty packed and they’re pretty nuts.

  46. 46.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @Jerzy Russian: That is brilliant!

  47. 47.

    GenXFiles

    November 21, 2020 at 8:36 pm

    @Another Scott: They worship a god who insisted Abraham kill his own son as a test of his faith. Nothing good can come from that sort of mindfucking.

  48. 48.

    SuzieC

    November 21, 2020 at 8:36 pm

    @Brachiator: Shows that fundamentalist conservative religions are all alike, mostly.

  49. 49.

    Sebastian

    November 21, 2020 at 8:38 pm

    We have to start using mobile device location data to start excluding assholes from medical services.

  50. 50.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2020 at 8:38 pm

    @chopper

    “Wow! A sculpture of the Temple Mount made entirely of chopped liver! They must be very religious.”

    //

  51. 51.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    @Sebastian: ankle trackers for all congregants coming out of churches that have been designated as covid-spreader zones.  Then the rest of us can get alerts if we’re anywhere near the fuckers. And yeah, the hospitals can bar their entry.  And anybody tampering with the tracker gets thrown in the slammer until the pandemic is over.

    Too fucking bad if they get the bug in jail.

  52. 52.

    Procopius

    November 21, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    @Ken: IANAL, but from what I have read about various lawyer scandals, I think it is nearly impossible to disbar a lawyer. Remember Orly Taitz? The Russian immigrant, self-taught in law, who passed the California bar examination, and made a name filing suits claiming Obama was not qualified to be President? I’ve always felt admiration for her, because not only did she pass the bar exam, she did it in a second language that she could not have used for long. Many judges threatened to sanction her, one actually did sanction her for $20,000, but she was never disbarred.

  53. 53.

    Nicole

    November 21, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    @dmsilev:

    To be fair, large swaths society at large aren’t all that much better:

    Yeah, I went to celebrate a birthday (outdoors, masked) on the Upper West Side today and there was a line a block long outside an Urgent Care Clinic that was offering Covid tests.  Plenty of people planning to travel,  I have no doubt.  Ugh.

  54. 54.

    GenXFiles

    November 21, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: Probably just be easier to put a mark on the forehead or hand that clears you to participate in the economy. No mark, no service.

  55. 55.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 21, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    WHAT! THE! FUCK?!

    Just had to get married during a raging pandemic, eh?  Really?  And of course there’s consciousness of guilt here because – Organizers schemed to hide the wedding

    How incredibly fucking irresponsible and selfish.

     

    ETA – A Temple Full of Suicidal, Homicidal Sociopaths

    Fixed.

  56. 56.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    November 21, 2020 at 8:46 pm

    @Mary G:

    Somewhere there’s a straitjacket with Rudy Ghouliani’s name on it.  I wish this asshole could be stripped of his law license. He’s making a fucking mockery of our legal system

  57. 57.

    Yarrow

    November 21, 2020 at 8:46 pm

    Given the Hasidic community’s general insularity, why don’t they have their own hospitals? Or do they? They can keep all their sick people together and stop infecting everyone else and overwhelming the other hospitals.

  58. 58.

    Yarrow

    November 21, 2020 at 8:47 pm

    @NotMax:

    some of the customers belong to the Hasidic sects which eschew masks.

    Why is this? Is it some religious thing? Can’t wear masks because it goes against their religious beliefs?

  59. 59.

    Kent

    November 21, 2020 at 8:49 pm

    @Procopius:@Ken: IANAL, but from what I have read about various lawyer scandals, I think it is nearly impossible to disbar a lawyer. Remember Orly Taitz? The Russian immigrant, self-taught in law, who passed the California bar examination, and made a name filing suits claiming Obama was not qualified to be President? I’ve always felt admiration for her, because not only did she pass the bar exam, she did it in a second language that she could not have used for long. Many judges threatened to sanction her, one actually did sanction her for $20,000, but she was never disbarred.

    They get disbarred all the time for actual crimes.  If you get convicted of a felony it’s automatic.  But they almost never get disbarred for misbehavior in the courtroom.  Or general incompetence.

  60. 60.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Why is this? Is it some religious thing?

    I’m curious to know why, too.  But my guess is: for the same reason that other religious sects are anti-mask: they wanna gather their flocks together, to keep indoctrinating them and collecting their receipts/tithes/whatever.  Can’t brainwash the sheep by Zoom as effectively.

  61. 61.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    @Procopius:

    Dentist/real estate agent/self-taught lawyer Orly Taitz’s industry in acquiring three different sets of professional credentials is indeed admirable. Her industry as a wild-eyed birther kook, not so much.

  62. 62.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 21, 2020 at 8:52 pm

    @Yarrow: There is a large Hasidic community in upstate New York (Rockland County, not that far upstate.) They have their own schools, but any children with physical or learning disabilities are sent to the local public schools, which are legally required to accommodate everyone. So they are certainly not averse to using public resources.

  63. 63.

    Procopius

    November 21, 2020 at 8:52 pm

    “Due to the ongoing situation with government restrictions, preparations were made secretly and discreetly, so as not to draw attention from strangers,” the paper reported in its Nov. 13 edition.

    You know, I’m so glad to see the correct word used (‘discreet,’ not ‘discrete’), I can forgive the dozens or hundreds who are going to get sick from that

  64. 64.

    Kent

    November 21, 2020 at 8:53 pm

    @Yarrow:Why is this? Is it some religious thing? Can’t wear masks because it goes against their religious beliefs?

    I think it’s more that they live in a conservative bubble and they only consume conservative religious media which claims Covid is a liberal plot to destroy their religion by prohibiting them from going to church/synagogue and worshipping as is their God-given right.

    In other words, mask mandates are just the liberal “nose under the camel’s tent” that will lead to a slippery slope that ends in the government outlawing religion.

    They really believe that shit because their leaders tell it to them every day.

  65. 65.

    The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion

    November 21, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @GenXFiles: I want an “upvote” function for this comment.  I snorted so hard I almost hurt myself.

  66. 66.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 21, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @Mary G: There’s so much to savor in this opinion. If I were the lawyer on the receiving end, I would crawl into a hole, never to be seen again. Just one of many sick burns:

    Crucially, Plaintiffs fail to understand the relationship between right and remedy. Though every injury must have its proper redress, a court may not prescribe a remedy unhinged from the underlying right being asserted. By seeking injunctive relief preventing certification of the Pennsylvania election results, Plaintiffs ask this Court to do exactly that. Even assuming that they can establish that their right to vote has been denied, which they cannot, Plaintiffs seek to remedy the denial of their votes by invalidating the votes of millions of others. Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes, but only for one race. This is simply not how the Constitution works.

  67. 67.

    ballerat

    November 21, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    @trollhattan: Amazing how much money stupid gullible people have.

    But a fool and his money… never more apt.

  68. 68.

    Gravenstone

    November 21, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    @Kent: Just coincidental that his name looks like it rhymes with fucked, right?

  69. 69.

    GenXFiles

    November 21, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    @The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion: Sometimes, the solution is so easy it can seem like a revelation.

  70. 70.

    scav

    November 21, 2020 at 9:05 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: Are they really going to bother to read it? They’re playing for effect in an entirely different court and on a different stage.  All they’ll hear is the blahblahblah of static as they cobble together their next bullshit-glitterglu-and-whoopie-cushion PR sparkler to amuse the addled toddlers and their tribal chief.

  71. 71.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 21, 2020 at 9:07 pm

    @scav: Fair point. Probably not. I was projecting a certain commitment to professional standards, which you correctly suggest…is not the point.

  72. 72.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2020 at 9:08 pm

    @Ken:

    I read somewhere (maybe here) that Rudy’s law licence is already suspended because he’s behind on his dues. Is that true?

  73. 73.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2020 at 9:10 pm

    @Gravenstone:

    Feucht is German for moist/damp. Make of that what you will.

  74. 74.

    Brachiator

    November 21, 2020 at 9:10 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes, but only for one race. This is simply not how the Constitution works.

    Lays it out plain!

  75. 75.

    Another Scott

    November 21, 2020 at 9:10 pm

    Jeb is focused on the most important issues facing our country right now. https://t.co/084DDsjMNG

    — Ben Tribbett (@notlarrysabato) November 22, 2020

    Indeed.

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  76. 76.

    Kent

    November 21, 2020 at 9:12 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    @Ken:

    I read somewhere (maybe here) that Rudy’s law licence is already suspended because he’s behind on his dues. Is that true?

    In the DC bar.  At least there was info circulated on twitter to that effect.  I don’t know how it works, if that affects his ability to practice in PA.

  77. 77.

    Wolvesvalley

    November 21, 2020 at 9:13 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Footnote 118 on page 31 is delicious, too.

    118 Curiously, Plaintiffs now claim that they seek only to enjoin certification of the presidential election results. Doc. 183 at 1. They suggest that their requested relief would thus not interfere with other election results in the state. But even if it were logically possible to hold Pennsylvania’s electoral system both constitutional and unconstitutional at the same time, the Court would not do so.

    The bolding is mine.

  78. 78.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2020 at 9:15 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Jeb made a funny, or at least gave it his best shot. Please laugh.

  79. 79.

    E.

    November 21, 2020 at 9:15 pm

    @Kent: No, they *can* be disbarred for actual crimes. And most likely a felony would do it but not always. At least when I was practicing, most disbarments occurred from stealing money from clients — that’s the one super big no no. Any felony would have to be reported to the jurisdictions you are barred in and would practically certainly result in a hearing, but I think an attorney could keep his/her license after some felonies, particularly non-violent drug felonies. They’d be on a short leash though.

  80. 80.

    Ivan X

    November 21, 2020 at 9:16 pm

    @GenXFiles: Please do not paint all of us with the same brush. I can’t tell you why us non-Hasids also believe in that God, but we do. Shades of grey exist in the world.

  81. 81.

    Almost Retired

    November 21, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    This is the Hassidic sect (Satmar) featured in Deborah Feldman’s book (and fictionalized Netflix series based on it): “Unorthodox.”

  82. 82.

    Jeffro

    November 21, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    Pat Toomey comes out swinging as he heads into retirement, practically begging trumpov to just give. it. the fuck. up. already.

    Good luck GOP!

    you’ll never free yourselves from the orange moron!!

  83. 83.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 21, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    @Wolvesvalley: Ouch.

  84. 84.

    Kent

    November 21, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    @E.: I stand corrected.  I think what I read was that 99% or so of disbarments were for actual crimes committed by attorneys as well as for stealing money from clients, which is, of course, also a crime.  That sort of thing.  Not for being a dick in court.

  85. 85.

    debbie

    November 21, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    @Kent:

    I heard it on NPR’s All Things Considered.

  86. 86.

    Aziz, light!

    November 21, 2020 at 9:24 pm

    @chopper:

    well that’s good for the jews. thanks, assholes.

    “The jews,” dude? All of us?

    You’re a bigoted moron. Go light your fucking tiki torch.

  87. 87.

    debbie

    November 21, 2020 at 9:24 pm

    @Kent:

    Via Google:

    The Republican National Committee and Michigan Republican Party released a letter Saturday urging the Michigan Board of State Canvassers to delay certification of Michigan’s statewide election results for 14 days and audit Wayne County’s general election results.

  88. 88.

    E.

    November 21, 2020 at 9:25 pm

    @Kent: Yeah, being a dick in court will get you yelled at, you and maybe your client sanctioned, and can get you hauled into a really uncomfortable hearing, may even in extreme cases get you a suspension, but probably not disbarment. Being super incompetent can do it though, I think. You will be required to have proven that incompetence beyond reasonable doubt however . . . .

  89. 89.

    debbie

    November 21, 2020 at 9:27 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Those last two sentences! BOOM!

  90. 90.

    E.

    November 21, 2020 at 9:28 pm

    @Aziz, light!: I think this person meant that the sect in question were “assholes” because what they were doing would be attributed to all Jews. As in, “thanks a lot, asshole, you just made my life harder.”

  91. 91.

    Leto

    November 21, 2020 at 9:29 pm

    If this was already spoken about here, apologies:

    Trump Appointee Unconstitutionally Interfered With VOA, Judge Rules

    The chief executive over the Voice of America and its sister networks has acted unconstitutionally in investigating what he claimed was a deep-seated bias against President Trump by his own journalists, a federal judge has ruled.

    Citing the journalists’ First Amendment protections, U.S. Judge Beryl Howell on Friday evening ordered U.S. Agency for Global Media CEO Michael Pack to stop interfering in the news service’s news coverage and editorial personnel matters. She struck a deep blow at Pack’s authority to continue to force the news agency to cover the president more sympathetically.

    Actions by Pack and his aides have likely “violated and continue to violate [journalists’] First Amendment rights because, among other unconstitutional effects, they result in self-censorship and the chilling of First Amendment expression,” Howell wrote in her opinion. “These current and unanticipated harms are sufficient to demonstrate irreparable harm.”

    There’s a lot more at the article, but this is another area where I hope smart agency heads will be appointed.

  92. 92.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 21, 2020 at 9:32 pm

    And if de Blasio or Cuomo do anything to crack down on this, the Haredim scream about anti-Semitism

  93. 93.

    Leto

    November 21, 2020 at 9:33 pm

    @debbie: Letter I wouldn’t mind seeing penned:

    “Dear RNC,

    Get fucked.

    – The Voters of Wayne County”

  94. 94.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 9:35 pm

    @E.: It’s wrong to single out even Hasidic Jews for this.  There have been numerous incidents of Christian churches doing exactly this, right down to Fucking Catholic churches doing open masses in SF (and IIRC, a fucking (unfuckingbelievable) *wedding*).  And I’m sure that if I were to look around, I could find Hindu temples and Muslim mosques that were equally (criminally) stupid.

    The problem here is religions (and cults) that refuse to submit to modern science and public health practices, not any particular sect or cult.

    Believe in whatever Sky Father, Mother, Family, non-Family, or whatever you want: but when the government comes calling, you don’t get an exception because of that belief.

    Picking on any particular religion for this is foolish, and, yeah, also bigoted.

     

    P.S. And just to be clear, *my* faith, “Rabid Atheism”‘s only tenet is that all you God-botherers (of whatever stripe) were all dropped on your heads multiple times as infants, and hence are suffering from mental defect.  But I’m not ableist: as long as you abide by the laws, I’m good.

  95. 95.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 9:36 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Even the Republican whose 9/10 rating Jeb objected to dunked on him:

    Hey Gov, 20 years ago tomorrow, I was on the 19th floor of the Miami-Dade Govt Center protesting for your brother at the Brooks Brothers Revolt. I’m thrilled I got a 9/10. Cut me some slack and please clap!
    — Doug Heye (@DougHeye) November 22, 2020

  96. 96.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 21, 2020 at 9:36 pm

    Another nugget:

    That Plaintiffs are trying to mix-and-match claims to bypass contrary precedent is not lost on the Court. The Court will thus analyze Plaintiffs’ claims as if they had been raised properly and asserted as one whole for purposes of standing and the merits.

  97. 97.

    scav

    November 21, 2020 at 9:37 pm

    @Kent: I’ve got the vague impression it doesn’t actually rule out his being able to go through the motions of lawyering, it just adds another inexactitude to the pile of verbiage they filed.

    some info here in tweets further down.

  98. 98.

    West of the Rockies

    November 21, 2020 at 9:39 pm

    OT, but I haven’t seen Adam here in these promiscuous parts since election.  Any word on the big galoot?

  99. 99.

    Bill Arnold

    November 21, 2020 at 9:40 pm

    @Gozer:

    The insularity of the community is in part a response to constant attempts of others to wipe them out. COVID has ravaged the Haredi community…why do this?

    It’s not just insularity. Some of these communities probably most, are Republicans so reliable that they make white evangelicals look like traitors to the Republican Party. Their information feeds are filtered, but they end up effectively huffing a lot of right wing propaganda. There may also be outgroup anti-masker stuff targeted at them; haven’t looked.
    The Satmars in particular at least used to be and I think are very Republican. Story, from old memory:
    My mom was working the polls near where I grew up, Dem at the desk next to a registered Republican Nearby, within short walking distance, was a Satmar yeshiva, since abandoned and in ruins. A group of young men with an older leader showed up to vote, clearly from dress and beards from the yeshiva. They were instructed to vote Row B (or whatever the Republican voting party line was that year). OK, fine. One of the young men volunteered in chatting that they had been in Brooklyn in the morning, and were heading upstate. This was clearly a case where a group was voting three times; the two poll workers looked at each other, rolled their eyes but there wasn’t much to do. This suggested an utter disrespect for secular law, though, and it appears it hasn’t changed.

  100. 100.

    Benw

    November 21, 2020 at 9:42 pm

    I guess we’re about 2 weeks out from these assholes screaming that COVID isn’t real at NYC nurses right up until the nurses can get them sedated for the ventilator. Sweet

  101. 101.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 9:42 pm

    @Wolvesvalley: I still love this one:

    There have been at least two perceived discovery disputes, one oral argument, and a rude and ill-conceived voicemail which distracted the Court’s attention from the significant issues at hand.27

    IANAL, but even I know judges are extremely irritated by shit like this.

  102. 102.

    Another Scott

    November 21, 2020 at 9:43 pm

    @debbie:

    LOLGOP (based in Ann Arbor) isn’t having it:

    Trump lost the state by more than 150,000 votes. They're talking about a dispute that involves at most 400 votes.

    We had 10,225 new cases of Covid-19 yesterday in Michigan & all Republicans are doing about is trying to stop our governor from doing anything to prevent the spread. https://t.co/NvVrNTOliR

    — LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) November 21, 2020

    It’ll be over soon, but Donnie and the Teabaggers are going to try to do as much damage as they can before they slink away.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  103. 103.

    Wolvesvalley

    November 21, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    @Mary G: Oh, yes — I read that one aloud to my husband.

  104. 104.

    TS (the original)

    November 21, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    Has anyone mentioned the G20 – seems they found their soul after trump wandered off to golf finding listening to what is happening in the world related to covid – just too hard.

    The world has become a much worse place in the aftermath of trump. I doubt it will ever recover.

  105. 105.

    Uncle Cosmo

    November 21, 2020 at 9:44 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: Thanks SO much for linking to a motherfucking pay site. Don’t care if it is the WaPo. The goddamn opinion is public record, how dare that moneygrubbing bazillionaire asshole Bezos charge to see it? May all his (unmanned) rockets crash & burn.

  106. 106.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 21, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: And if de Blasio or Cuomo do anything to crack down on this, the Haredim scream about anti-Semitism

    “It’s not anti-Semitic, it’s pro-life.  You like being alive?”

  107. 107.

    E.

    November 21, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: I was just interpreting a past comment. I agree with everything you wrote.

  108. 108.

    Mike in NC

    November 21, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @Leto: Hey now. He just wanted to change the name from “Voice of America” to “Voice of Trump”.

  109. 109.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 21, 2020 at 9:45 pm

    @West of the Rockies: He seems to be busy. I’ve gotten a couple of e-mails, so I can attest that he’s alive.

  110. 110.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 21, 2020 at 9:46 pm

    It drives @realDonaldTrump crazy when I post these, so please don't upset him by sharing this:Trump and his allies are 2-34 in post-election court cases.— Marc E. Elias (@marceelias) November 22, 2020

  111. 111.

    Renie

    November 21, 2020 at 9:47 pm

    @Mary G:  How are all these lawyers getting paid?  and why are no sanctions being imposed on them

  112. 112.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 21, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: Love and light to you too.

  113. 113.

    Redshift

    November 21, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    @dmsilev: From the TPM article about Wisconsin:

    in some instances by objecting to every ballot tabulators pulled to count.

    Sounds familiar. There was a Twitter thread a while back from a nonpartisan observer in Detroit, I think. One of the things she recounted was the point at which the GOP observers switched from scrutinizing the process to just lodging a protest for every ballot. She knew this was an explicit strategy because she overheard then on a call to headquarters being instructed to do it.

    Just another in their long list of tactics designed to delay counting of mail ballots so it would look like they were “ahead.” And illustrative of how they attempted to paint the later count as suspicious, when what was really suspicious was their deliberate effort to cause that.

  114. 114.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 21, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    Talking about sociopaths.

    If Kyle Rittenhouse was Muslim, the police would have killed himIf Kyle Rittenhouse was black, the police would have killed himIf Kyle Rittenhouse was Latino, the police would have killed himKyle Rittenhouse is alive and out on bail because he is white.— Baligubadle (@Baligubadle1) November 22, 2020

  115. 115.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    @Wolvesvalley: You know it had to be Rudy.

  116. 116.

    patroclus

    November 21, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    Sidney Powell, the “Orly Taitz” of this cycle, was just on Newsmax with Mark Halperin and threw out many other ludicrous allegations in yet another bizarre performance that I just watched.  Among these included an allegation that Brian Kemp is in on the conspiracy in Georgia to deny Trump his rightful win, that Bernie Sanders was similarly the victim in 2016 of the very same conspiracy and that he was told about it and did nothing, that precisely 35,000 votes were added all over the country for every single Democratic candidate in every election by Dominion (which isn’t even used in all such elections) and that they will be filing a massive “Biblical” lawsuit next week (maybe Monday, possibly Wednesday, hopefully by Friday) in Georgia but possibly everywhere else that will blow everything up.  I’m not sure if I could follow all of her allegations (Hugo Chavez was brought up a time or two) , but that’s the latest gist.

    She also doesn’t think much of Senator Toomey or Judge Brann.

  117. 117.

    Another Scott

    November 21, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: Since you asked nicely…

    Linky to the PDF.

    (Yes, it’s on an Evil Bezos site.)

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  118. 118.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    @Renie: I think one judge awarded attorneys fees to a state.

  119. 119.

    JanieM

    November 21, 2020 at 9:54 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: 

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I don’t have a subscription, and I’m having no trouble reading the opinion. You do have to scroll down….

  120. 120.

    Sebastian

    November 21, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    @Chetan Murthy:

    We are on the same page.

  121. 121.

    Ivan X

    November 21, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    @West of the Rockies:  He occasionally emails me tech questions, so I think he’s ok. Or at least not totally vanished, anyway.

  122. 122.

    zhena gogolia

    November 21, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    Read my statement on today’s Pennsylvania federal court decision, and congratulating President-Elect Biden: https://t.co/tCCXWxIUoR pic.twitter.com/MaxfHCtK1x— Senator Pat Toomey (@SenToomey) November 22, 2020

  123. 123.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 21, 2020 at 10:00 pm

    Seriously, fuck each and every single one of them, and I legit hope a bunch of them get sick and die. I am tired of being the bigger person, and these folks stay within their own community a good deal, so fuck them all.

    There is only so much you can do to try to keep people safe.

    If only people like this– all the “I’m not gonna give in to fear!”– were only a threat to themselves

  124. 124.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 10:01 pm

    ????

    Breaking: Kelly Loeffler is self-isolating after positive, then inconclusive, coronavirus tests #gapol #gasen https://t.co/pI9WuaBmf8— Greg Bluestein (@bluestein) November 22, 2020

    Dum, dum, dum, another one bites the dust…

  125. 125.

    MisterForkbeard

    November 21, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Wait, they won another one? What was it?

  126. 126.

    Uncle Cosmo

    November 21, 2020 at 10:03 pm

    FTR here is a non-paywalled copy of Judge Brann’s decision.

  127. 127.

    West of the Rockies

    November 21, 2020 at 10:03 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Glad to hear it.  I recall him promising a post on the dangers of the 75 post-election days but maybe I missed it.

  128. 128.

    zhena gogolia

    November 21, 2020 at 10:05 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    You didn’t miss it, it never appeared. Maybe he’s just depressed.

    The rosy scenario I heard from someone here is that he might be having job opportunities opening up now that we’re about to have an honorable president.

  129. 129.

    CatFacts

    November 21, 2020 at 10:05 pm

    For those who want to read Washington Post articles without a subscription, private browsing mode is your friend. So is clearing cookies before and after reading the article. That should work for O. Felix’s link above.

  130. 130.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    @Mary G: I think about her dying of the bug, and I pray for this consummation, to be devoutly wished.  Thoughts and Prayers, Kelly.  Thoughts and Prayers.

  131. 131.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo

    Bypassing WaPo’s paywall is easier than finding a pet animal in Mr. Cole’s house. Just sayin’.

    ;)

  132. 132.

    debbie

    November 21, 2020 at 10:10 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Racist pieces of shit.  ???

  133. 133.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 10:11 pm

    @Mary G: She’s gonna be beggin’ Shitler for that Regeneron shit.  Wonder what she’ll have to promise him.

  134. 134.

    debbie

    November 21, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    ?

  135. 135.

    dmsilev

    November 21, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    @zhena gogolia: That’s what, the fifth or sixth Republican Senator to do so? Two weeks after most of the world realized it was over? Sorry, Senator, you only look good in comparison to your colleagues, not on any objective scale.

  136. 136.

    SFAW

    November 21, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Yeah, I noticed that part. I half-expect Rudy to forget what the case is, and start arguing that allowing gays to marry diminishes/cheapens his own marriage(s)*.

    *Three and counting.  Must mean he’s really good at it, I guess. Just like his Number One Criminal Client.

  137. 137.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 21, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: Christ, what an asshole.

  138. 138.

    Roger Moore

    November 21, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @Mary G:

    My favorite I’ve read so far:

    Plaintiffs’ only remaining claim alleges a violation of equal protection. This claim, like Frankenstein’s Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together from two distinct theories in an attempt to avoid controlling precedent.

    Yeah, the judge does not think much of the plaintiffs’ attorneys.

  139. 139.

    CaseyL

    November 21, 2020 at 10:18 pm

    @Mary G

    @Chetan Murthy:

    All those evil mofos who test positive, and the only one who’s died so far is  Herman Cain?  Why aren’t more of them keeling over?

    Loeffler, at least, doesn’t rate being airlifted to Walter Reed.

  140. 140.

    JoyceH

    November 21, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    Somewhere there’s a straitjacket with Rudy Ghouliani’s name on it. I wish this asshole could be stripped of his law license. He’s making a fucking mockery of our legal system

    Tell you what’s weird. A few days ago I was watching the news shows, and they had someone on, can’t remember who, but might have been Tony Schwartz. Anyway, it was someone who knew Trump before politics. And he said that about five years ago, Trump said to him that Rudy had really ‘lost a step’. Said he was getting vague and rambling and forgetful and tended to nod off at 6:30. So – five years ago, Trump realized that Rudy was past it. Did he FORGET?

  141. 141.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @CaseyL: Her husband owns the NY Stock Exchange. She can be airlifted anywhere she wants, even without all her insider trading profits off Covid.

  142. 142.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @CaseyL: I’m willing to believe that he’s doling out the Regeneron like some evil dictator deals out life-serum to his henchmen.  We’ll find out, I’m quite sure, in the new Administration: there’ll be staffers and civil servants who know, and will fess up.  They can’t all be Trump loyalists down to the drivers, guards, and clerks.

  143. 143.

    zhena gogolia

    November 21, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    I guess MI House Speaker @LeeChatfield + @RepJimLillyMI were in a celebratory mood last night, drinking Dom Perignon at the Trump Hotel til midnight ? pic.twitter.com/s7FDpDdshm— Lauren Windsor (@lawindsor) November 21, 2020

  144. 144.

    SFAW

    November 21, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Thanks for that link. Downthread from it, the following tweet appeared:

    Remember Trump can still win Georgia by writing in Trump instead of Perdue and Loeffler!

    As the locals say: wicked pissah! I hope the asshole GA RWMFs follow that guy’s advice.

  145. 145.

    patroclus

    November 21, 2020 at 10:25 pm

    @CaseyL: Ben Carson is reportedly very ill.

  146. 146.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 10:26 pm

    @patroclus: Sadly, I read that they gave him the drug Regeneron that they gave Shitler.  I’m sure, at Shitler’s direction.  To which I can only say: couldn’t they have given those doses to a more deserving recipient?  Like, say, a convict in prison who got covid?

  147. 147.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 21, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    AG Barr just set three more federal execution dates in addition to the two already scheduled in December. The federal government just executed Orlando Hall last night. If Barr gets his way, six people will be executed between Election Day and Inauguration Day. This is a disgrace.— Sister Helen Prejean (@helenprejean) November 21, 2020

  148. 148.

    different-church-lady

    November 21, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    Somewhere there’s a straitjacket with Rudy Ghouliani’s name on it.

    Dante attempted a description, but I believe the reality will be so much worse for him.

  149. 149.

    SFAW

    November 21, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    @Redshift:

    Just as Rethug elected officials in various Red states fuck with things and force a number of (probably) legit voters to file provisional ballots (which I assume end up in the circular file eventually), the WI ratfuckers should be told they now have to file “provisional objections,” but do it remotely, and those provisional objections will be reviewed in two months.

  150. 150.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    @SFAW: With a real right to vote in the Constitution, the challenger would need to find the voter and get a sworn affidavit that that wasn’t the voter’s ballot.  Maybe even in-person, so that the affidavit could be verified.

  151. 151.

    SFAW

    November 21, 2020 at 10:34 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    That fucker should be rendered. In both senses of the word.*

    *Yes, I know there are more than two meanings. These specific two deal with fat, and terrists.

  152. 152.

    SFAW

    November 21, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Chetan Murthy:

    With a real right to vote in the Constitution, the challenger would need to find the voter and get a sworn affidavit that that wasn’t the voter’s ballot.  Maybe even in-person, so that the affidavit could be verified.

    Excellent idea. Just as long as it doesn’t impede or delay the counting (which I assume was implied in your proposal).

  153. 153.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    @Wolvesvalley: They are head-smackingly, laughingly, ridiculous.

  154. 154.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 10:38 pm

    @SFAW: Yep.  Just as with provisional ballots (that are counted at the end) and rejected ballots (which can be cured after rejection), this would be something that the challenger would have to have their people go do, and get the voters back to swear it wasn’t their ballot within a bounded time.  But really, all of this is ridiculous.

    If we did our voting like the French or other modern countries, these issues wouldn’t happen.  Counting happens at the precinct level, publicly, with great transparency, and then the results are rolled-up.  Because precincts are so small, there is almost no need for mail-in voting.

  155. 155.

    Mary G

    November 21, 2020 at 10:39 pm

    @patroclus:

    Mark Halperin is a very bad person and it’s embarrassing that even Newsmax would take him https://t.co/KVqDCcmMS1— Josh Billinson (@jbillinson) November 22, 2020

  156. 156.

    Suzanne

    November 21, 2020 at 10:41 pm

    @dmsilev: One of my lifelong friends is planning to fly home to Phoenix to see her sister’s family for the holiday — and they are all going to see their mom in the memory care unit she lives in. She keeps saying, “I’ll wear a mask the whole time!”. I’m just astounded, The other sister is a freaking doctor at a major health system you’ve heard of. I don’t know why she isn’t putting the kibosh on this shit.

    HOWEVER, I was last on site at my project that just finished construction of the second phase, and that whole area is now considered surge for COVID patients. The nurses raised holy hell at the end of construction, saying that they absolutely would not go to work until glass was put up between the nurse stations and the corridors. (I will note that the glass dividers you see everywhere have absolutely zero evidence of effectiveness, as none of us breathe like Drogon.) So we rushed around like crazy people to put up glass dividers. AND THEN, the first time I went into the space after activation…. I saw FOUR nurses crowd into one station (rather than use the separate stations we built) AND PULL THEIR MASKS DOWN ONCE THEY WERE BEHIND THE GLASS.

    I have since refused to go back to the job site for field reports until this situation is more stable. The contractors are not following the rules, and the nurses certainly are not.

  157. 157.

    Another Scott

    November 21, 2020 at 10:43 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: Begging may not do much good. Derek Lowe at ScienceMag on October 29:

    […]

    Regeneron has also released more data on their antibody cocktail (although in another press release and not in a journal manuscript). This is another non-hospitalized-patient study, in about 800 people. They’re not seeing much difference either in their two doses (2.4g and 8g), so they’re asking for an EUA for the lower one, naturally. The numbers overall look more interesting than the Lilly ones (although it has to be said that these are different trials with different enrollments, etc., so you can’t necessarily just line things up head-to-head). That said, the Regeneron therapy does show significant results for reducing viral load and for follow-ons like reducing medical visits. The best results were in the most at-risk patients, whether that’s defined as higher viral load, pre-existing risk factors, or weak antibody response. That last one was the group highlighted in Regeneron’s earlier look at their data, you may recall. But the Lilly data also look best in these cohorts – that, at least, is a result that’s what you’d have expected.

    Does this mean that an EUA would feature a recommendation to use either of these therapies preferentially in high-risk patients? Or a call to get an antibody readout before starting therapy, prioritizing those people who aren’t mounting as good a response? Or is there going to be one at all?

    My guess is that yes, we’ll see such a move. But how much difference it makes, that’s another question. As Matthew Herper details in this column at Stat, we have not prioritized production of these antibodies the way that we have vaccines, so there are (at the moment) only about 50,000 doses of the Regeneron cocktail available. A look at the map will suggest that the entire stockpile, even if given immediate authorization and Star Trek transporter-style distribution, would vanish into the national epidemic like a rock thrown into a pond. You’d have to look very hard to see its effects at all. We had around 80,000 new cases yesterday, and that number is going up. 50,000 doses of an antibody that seems to help cut down on hospital visits is not going to make much of a dent in that situation.

    Update: and now Regeneron has halted dosing of their antibody cocktail in hospitalized patients with high oxygen requirements, which fits in with the general “dose early” ideas. This one seems to have been both a safety signal and lack of benefit. . .

    (Emphasis added.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  158. 158.

    Uncle Cosmo

    November 21, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Looking in the mirror when you said that?

    You really need to butt the fuck out of situations that don’t involve you.

  159. 159.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 10:44 pm

    @Leto:  Ask and you shall receive.  Or were you hoping for something more formal?

    A Temple Full of Sociopaths

  160. 160.

    Roger Moore

    November 21, 2020 at 10:47 pm

    @dmsilev:

    The popular comparison to make right now is that more Republican senators have been diagnosed with COVID than have publicly accepted Biden as president elect.

  161. 161.

    TS (the original)

    November 21, 2020 at 10:47 pm

    @patroclus:

    HUD Secretary Ben Carson said on Friday that he was “desperately ill” during his recent bout with the coronavirus.

    Carson said that he took an experimental treatment like the one given to President Donald Trump last month. Carson said he was cleared to take the treatment by Trump, which Carson said “saved his life.”

    My bold – so trump decides who lives and dies – a true dictator in every sense of the word.

    https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/national/coronavirus/ben-carson-says-he-was-desperately-ill-with-covid-19

  162. 162.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 10:48 pm

    @West of the Rockies: I heard from Adam today by email, so I can confirm that he is alive and well.

  163. 163.

    chopper

    November 21, 2020 at 10:51 pm

    @Aziz, light!:

    what the hell are you talking about?

  164. 164.

    chopper

    November 21, 2020 at 10:51 pm

    @E.:

    thank you. didn’t think it needed to be translated.

  165. 165.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 21, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    @TS (the original): I think Chris Christie, a private citizen who was very publicly flouting all public health advice, got the same experimental drug, presumably with trump’s authorization.

  166. 166.

    Dan B

    November 21, 2020 at 10:53 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: I share your sentiments but my my IANAE (Epidemiologist) thought is based on AIDS.  When people were threatened for having AIDS they did not get tested.  The spread accelerated.  They didn’t know they were infected.  Their fear put them in turmoil that aggravated dangerous behaviors.  They acted out like GI’s headed to war.  They partied, did drugs, had sex – frequently  it was crazier sex, very frequently.

    I loathe the self centered behaviors but these are exacerbated by fears of the disease, despair that your life will change in frightening ways, terror that your culture will vanish, and fears of the persecution that will precede the end of the culture that has been the sustenance of your life.

    It’s good to express the raw fury that we are feeling.  Soon we must figure out how to calm the fears, our own and the fears of people who are putting us in harms way because of their selfish motives.  And it is, perhaps discouragingly, necessary to draw some hard lines in the sand.  We – none of us – can harm another person or let any of us be harmed.

    We will not tolerate being threatened or tolerate  be ing harmed further.  We will empathize but not waver.

  167. 167.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 10:53 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: He often seems rude and cranky.  Don’t take it personally.

  168. 168.

    TS (the original)

    November 21, 2020 at 10:54 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    And for the 27,351st time

    Imagine if President Obama had made decisions about who would receive particular medical treatments & who would not. Seems trump has death panels down pat.

  169. 169.

    burnspbesq

    November 21, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    @E.: 

    most disbarments occurred from stealing money from clients

    Secks with clients is another big no-no.

  170. 170.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 21, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: It’s a fucking blog.  It’s not like you were having a private conversation.  IOW go piss up a rope.

  171. 171.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 10:56 pm

    @patroclus: It would be a terrible shame if all this hate for Kemp were to impact the Republican turnout for the runoff.

  172. 172.

    topclimber

    November 21, 2020 at 10:56 pm

    @WaterGirl: That’s all very well and good. But it begs the question: Was he emailing from his untraceable personal bunker, situated under two miles of bedrock?

  173. 173.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 10:58 pm

    @Dan B: It’s not ankle monitors for being covid-positive: not at all.  It’s ankle-monitors for having attended an indoor meeting of any sort greater than a certain size.  Period.  And yeah, I know there’s nothing to be done about this except stay indoors even fucking longer.

    But I’ll never forgive them (or any other Godbotherer who didn’t stay away from their churches/temples/synagogues/weddings/funerals/whatever) for what they’ve done to me and my family.

    P.S. Dan, this is *much*, *much* worse than AIDS.  This is a respiratory illness.  There’s nothing I can do to protect myself, other than hide in my house, given that there are people out there wantonly disregarding basic public health.  With AIDS, all I had to do was be celibate at worst, and stick to a single partner (who stuck to me) as second-best.  There is no such strategy available to me and my family with this bug: the only way to be safe is to literally withdraw from society.

    All because these assholes can’t just forgo their God-Damned in-person MASS meetings for a few months.

  174. 174.

    burnspbesq

    November 21, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    @Chetan Murthy:

    It’s wrong to single out even Hasidic Jews for this

    Bullshit. It’s a question of scale.

  175. 175.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    @TS (the original):

    Wait one minute. Who is Trump to be deciding what drugs to treat Covid-19 patients with? When did he get a medical degree?

  176. 176.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I’m not sure what that tweet is getting at.  ??

  177. 177.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:01 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Reading that makes me want to throw up.

  178. 178.

    West of the Rockies

    November 21, 2020 at 11:01 pm

    @Mary G:

    Bites the dust?  So far only Mr. 999 (Herman Cain) has kicked it. I was hoping Gohmert would keep over.  I would LOVE if Turtle got it and croaked.

  179. 179.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 11:02 pm

    @burnspbesq: My point is, that there are enough differen Christian churches doing exatly the same thing: mass congregations, that, yeah, it’s bullshit to signle out these particular Hasidic Jews.  There are enough fuckers in California, not to speak of the Fucking Bible, that these Satmar (or whatever) aren’t so unique.

  180. 180.

    West of the Rockies

    November 21, 2020 at 11:03 pm

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Romeo and Juliet reference!

    Extra points for you!

  181. 181.

    The Pale Scot

    November 21, 2020 at 11:03 pm

    @featheredsprite:

    it’s what you oughtn’t to do but you do anyway

  182. 182.

    burnspbesq

    November 21, 2020 at 11:05 pm

    @Mary G:

    I think one judge awarded attorneys fees to a state

    Not quite, but close. The judge in Maricopa County invited the Secretary of State to apply for an order on fees.

  183. 183.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 11:07 pm

    @West of the Rockies: By way of, y’know, Jeeves.

  184. 184.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:07 pm

    @TS (the original):

    so trump decides who lives and dies – a true dictator in every sense of the word.

    That is absolutely appalling.

  185. 185.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:10 pm

    @chopper: I had to read your comment 3 times and i was kind of surprised at what you seemed to be saying.  so i think it did need a bit of translating for me.

  186. 186.

    West of the Rockies

    November 21, 2020 at 11:14 pm

    @topclimber:

    Adam is in an undisclosed location with Dick Cheney.

  187. 187.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:14 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: Are there really mega-churches with 7,000-10,000 in the congregation?  In one place at one time?

  188. 188.

    West of the Rockies

    November 21, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Oh, well, I did my thesis on the play a hundred  years ago, so dug the reference.

  189. 189.

    burnspbesq

    November 21, 2020 at 11:17 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    There are. There are fundie churches in Texas and California (and maybe other states) the size of college basketball arenas.

  190. 190.

    TS (the original)

    November 21, 2020 at 11:17 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Who is Trump to be deciding what drugs to treat Covid-19 patients with?

    Lord of all he purveys. Nothing belongs to the government or the people. It all belongs to trump.

    Note how he has no intention of sharing any knowledge or vaccines with WHO or other countries in the G20. It is his, to give or withhold.

  191. 191.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2020 at 11:26 pm

    @WaterGirl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church_Central_Campus

    check out this pic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church#/media/File:Lakewood_worship.jpg

    they’re staging services with 4.2k people every week (and that’s 25% of the actual capacity).

    https://abc13.com/lakewood-reopening-houston-church-what-churches-are-open-in-person-capacity-limit/6422338/

  192. 192.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:30 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: 16,800 people.  I had no idea.  That’s crazy.

  193. 193.

    frosty

    November 21, 2020 at 11:32 pm

    @Jeffro: Yes!! My phone call ( which I ran by all you valued commenters) WORKED!!!!

    Behold the awesome power of the jackaltariat.

  194. 194.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:35 pm

    @frosty: Why didn’t you call sooner?  :-)

  195. 195.

    Roger Moore

    November 21, 2020 at 11:39 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Are there really mega-churches with 7,000-10,000 in the congregation? In one place at one time?

    There are churches considerably bigger than that.  There are at least a couple of churches that purchased old sports arenas to use as church buildings.  For example, Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church bought the former home of the Houston Rockets, which has been renovated into a church with a seating capacity of 16,800.

  196. 196.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:42 pm

    @Roger Moore: Yeah, there was a link at #191 and I saw the 16,800.  Crazy.

  197. 197.

    Roger Moore

    November 21, 2020 at 11:49 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    They aren’t even the only church out there to buy an old NBA arena.  There was a church that bought the old Forum in LA, though they kept it usable as an arena while using it as a church and wound up selling it to Madison Square Garden.

  198. 198.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2020 at 11:53 pm

    @Roger Moore: There’s a sucker born every minute.

  199. 199.

    Sebastian

    November 21, 2020 at 11:58 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Sadly, he did not. He responded and it’s worse than we thought.

    Doug Heye had to respond and scold Jeb

     

    Room man, do a review of your ratings based on ideology and publish it. The backgrounds are varied but your bias is constant. Be honest. Try to make a difference. If not, you are part of the problem.
    — Jeb Bush (@JebBush) November 21, 2020

     

    Hey Gov, 20 years ago tomorrow, I was on the 19th floor of the Miami-Dade Govt Center protesting for your brother at the Brooks Brothers Revolt. I’m thrilled I got a 9/10. Cut me some slack and please clap!
    — Doug Heye (@DougHeye) November 22, 2020

  200. 200.

    Sebastian

    November 22, 2020 at 12:00 am

    @Mary G:

    dang, beat me to it by hours lol

  201. 201.

    Another Scott

    November 22, 2020 at 12:04 am

    @Sebastian:

    Wait, Claude Taylor is Room Rater? That Claude Taylor?

    — Josh Barro (@jbarro) November 22, 2020

    Apparently it’s an open secret, but funny nonetheless. Especially with the beatdown given to Jeb!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  202. 202.

    Aleta

    November 22, 2020 at 12:25 am

    @Another Scott: Somehow that confounds my mind.

  203. 203.

    something fabulous

    November 22, 2020 at 12:56 am

    @WaterGirl:  (@chopper)

    Yes, I think what is missing here is the shorthand: for an older generation of Jewish people (my folks would be 93, 94 if still with us for ex), for any global news event, there was the I think at first serious and then ultimately self-mocking question: “But is it good for the Jews?!” Coming from a people who had had to live there entire lives on the alert and on defense: is there something we need to do right now? how does this impact our situation, our safety? Which by the time I can remember, had kind of evolved into mostly jokes about pop culture, or things that while important were completely peripheral to their lives as Jewish people, e.g. how the Bears were doing, or who had won the Pulitzer that year. [see also, not unrelated: A Shande Fur Die Goyim.] So to me, made sense right away, but I came in with that luggage.

  204. 204.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 22, 2020 at 2:12 am

    @West of the Rockies:

    Romeo and Juliet reference!

    Hamlet, not R&J.

  205. 205.

    rikyrah

    November 22, 2020 at 3:20 am

    @WaterGirl:

    Did we do something that convinced Adam to take a leave from BJ???

  206. 206.

    Betsy

    November 22, 2020 at 4:37 am

    @mrmoshpotato: It’s telling. That was not a defiant exercise of religious freedom, it was a pure and simple power play in which the leader demonstrated his power over his followers’ minds.  It was actually too irresistible to him, to flex that he can keep thousands of people silent on such an important, life-threatening subject.  He’s showing off his totality of power, AND he’s showing his cult members how far they must go to honor his authority.

    In fact, this opportunity to flex and enforce his control probably inflamed his “need” to hold his son’s wedding RIGHT now, before the vaccines put an end to it.

    Also , think how much fear his followers must have of him, and what tactics he must be using on them, to carry out this so hermetically.  Some insiders are really suffering (and you can bet they are the women and children). Patriarchy is all the same.

  207. 207.

    Geminid

    November 22, 2020 at 4:37 am

    @rikyrah: I have no idea.

  208. 208.

    Betsy

    November 22, 2020 at 4:53 am

    @Yarrow: can’t wear masks because it is a great way to show how witlessly the leader is able to make his cult followers comply.  The scarier the compliance is to follow, the better it conveys the sense of the leader’s mind control.

  209. 209.

    Betsy

    November 22, 2020 at 4:54 am

    @Chetan Murthy: I love zoom for such a variety of reasons

  210. 210.

    Betsy

    November 22, 2020 at 4:58 am

    @Kent: Maybe partly but it’s more important as a signifier of group cohesion, like the tiny differences between Amish bonnets that are considered essential to whatever sub-sect doctrine of vital importance, like “no bonnet strings longer than 7 inches” or something

    But in the case of masks, it’s also the leader’s way of showing to what lengths his followers will go to obey him, even suspending the fear of death.

  211. 211.

    C.S.Strowbridge

    November 22, 2020 at 5:01 am

    I am tired of being the bigger person

    I am 100% with you. I’m done with these people. If they do get infected, they shouldn’t be allowed to go to a hospital to get treatment. Just quarantine them and let nature take its course.

  212. 212.

    Geminid

    November 22, 2020 at 5:11 am

    @Betsy: Patriarchy is still pervasive in our broader culture  and is sometimes so ingrained that it’s almost unnoticed. But this particular branch of Judaism expresses it in a pure form.

    Non-compliance with public health measures by many of the ultra-orthodox, or Haredi, has been a real problem in Israel also. As in the U.S., there are senior rabbis in the haredi community who push back against dangerous behavior, but others celebrate it. A writer in The Times of Israel noted that a central norm of the haredi is that they are different, apart from the modern society in which they live. Since the broader society of secular and observant Jews can be attractive to younger haredi, the rabbis try to constantly affirm and enforce separation and apartness.  In the pandemic, this can result in non-compliance  that endangers the haredim and other Israelis.

    The issue of draft deferments for haredi youth comes up often in Israeli politics. Generally, all young Jewish Israelis do mandatory military service, and join the reserves after active duty. Arabs are not drafted, though a small number of Arab volunteers serve in a single regiment. But Haredi youth can receive draft deferments. The ostensible reason is a duty to study the Torah, but one rabbi interviewed on the subject let the cat out of the bag when he said, we just don’t like our young men coming back from the Army with new ideas.

    .

  213. 213.

    SWMBO

    November 22, 2020 at 5:53 am

    @WaterGirl: There are a couple of mega churches here in South Florida.  One has a sanctuary that seats 3500 people.   They have to have 4 services on Sunday morning so that everyone can get in their worship every week.  They are huge.  They are insular (couple of my husband’s coworkers are members and they are “in” and the rest of us sinners are “out”.  They don’t bother to hide it.)

    One of the local mega churches ran out of room and bought the Sunrise Musical Theater for their congregation.  Seats around 4,000.

  214. 214.

    Bill

    November 22, 2020 at 9:14 am

    Covid went through the Hasidic community like wildfire last winter and this spring. A rabbi with whom I’m acquainted said “we’ve all had it”. The Hasids were donating plasma once they’d recovered. I don’t agree with their actions here, but the impact may be less than we suspect.

  215. 215.

    evodevo

    November 22, 2020 at 10:02 am

    @WaterGirl: yes, yes there are…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_megachurches_in_the_United_States

  216. 216.

    brantl

    November 22, 2020 at 1:47 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: That particular synagogue deserves to have its tax immunity revoked.

  217. 217.

    brantl

    November 22, 2020 at 1:58 pm

    @patroclus: Couldn’t happen to a bigger idiot.

  218. 218.

    brantl

    November 22, 2020 at 2:02 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: How silly do you have to look being combative, before you apologize?

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