Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

I really should read my own blog.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Second rate reporter says what?

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Come on, man.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Fight them, without becoming them!

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Morning Open Thread: Blessed, Blessed Solstice

Monday Morning Open Thread: Blessed, Blessed Solstice

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Roll over, world! Let the light grow strong again!


(Hallgrimskirkja – named after a poet/clergyman)

Reader Interactions

199Comments

  1. 1.

    Cermet

    Or rather, the rump get out of the office and then the light will grow for all the world (just not the foul putin.)

  3. 3.

    p.a.

    I think the long horrid upcoming winter might be made a little more bearable when the leaky tRump WH ends and the leaks become a flood of shadenfreude horror stories of BunkerBoy’s post-election madness.  Get emergency order to Santa for extra popcorn.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    Thank you, @JoeBiden, for these inspiring appointments. America is back, indeed.

    But wait! There’s more! We’re not done with the appointments.

  5. 5.

    Brachiator

    Also remember that December 21 will provide a fun celestial event:

    Jupiter and Saturn are set to cross paths in the night sky, appearing to the naked eye as a “double planet”.

    The timing of this conjunction, as the celestial event is known, has caused some to suggest it may have been the source of a bright light in the sky 2,000 years ago.

    That became known as the Star of Bethlehem.

    The planets are moving closer together each night and will reach their closest point on 21 December.

    Some details about the event here at the Space site.

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    Question for the jackalx.

    Landlady’s car (Subaru Outback) has a flat. Whoever last put on that wheel tightened the lug nuts so much that myself and a neighbor, combining what heft we have, cannot loosen some of them.

    Any suggestions welcome. WD-40 bath maybe?

  10. 10.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NotMax:   I have a 3′ pipe extension I put on the pry tong of the 4-way tire wrench. Leverage. If that fails, Heat and beat it.

    eta, also you can buy an electric 1/2″ impact wrench for $200+ (battery operated run about $350) if you think you might get the use out of one.

  14. 14.

    Brachiator

    Today’s Google Doodle has all kinds of info and links about the December 21 Great Conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn.

    Unfortunately, not much about loosening a tire.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    @NotMax:

    I once stood on the wrench to obtain the needed torque to remove a tight lugnut.  I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it without a signed liability waiver however.

  17. 17.

    NotMax

    @OzarkHillbilly

    First thing I thought of but the only lengths of pipe laying around are PVC and those would most likely snap. I’ll root around the property more come daylight. Meanwhile her car is in the garage.

    Do have a three foot torque wrench (don’t ask why) but am leery about either stripping the nuts or bending the lug bolts out of true.

  19. 19.

    Low Key Swagger

    @NotMax:  It’s not entirely ethical….but since I hate Home Depot, buy a torque wrench, use it, return it. You do NOT want to strip those lug nuts.

  20. 20.

    Geminid

    @NotMax: sometimes tapping a nut, not too hard, with a steel hammer helps loosen a frozen nut. Heating the nut with a propane torch may expand it enough to turn. I have not tried this, but it’s common practice. Penetrants like PV Blaster may work better than WD-40.                      Good luck! Banish the tightness!

  23. 23.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NotMax: The torque wrench oughta do just fine. As far as stripping the nuts or twisting the lugs, I wouldn’t worry about either. The nuts can be removed with a nut cracker and the lugs are easy enuf to beat out and replace. Again, heating the lug nuts with a propane torch will go a long way to helping release them. Just don’t pick them up off the floor for about 5 mins or so.

    eta as Geminid said, pb Blaster can help too

  25. 25.

    lowtechcyclist

    The Neolithic chambered mound lies about 500m off the Brittany coast, on the small island of Gavr’inis.

    If global warming goes unchecked, I don’t know how well the human race will survive, but our Neolithic ancestors’ ability to survive in insanely hostile corners of the globe assures me that it will survive at some level.

  29. 29.

    p.a.

    @Baud: Post-New Deal was a 2-steps-forward, 1-step-back affair until conservatives realized this still led to progress and embarked on their leg-amputation campaigns.

  34. 34.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Brachiator: Annoyed that I’m probably not going to have a clear sky until the 22nd. But the conjunction will still look pretty good for some time.

  39. 39.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Pretty even-handed, considering the source. Former Warren staffer Max Berger nailed it here, IMO:

    “It wasn’t that the Tea Party won a ton of swing races,” Berger said. “That’s not what made them powerful. They succeeded because they won a lot of Republican districts, and I don’t see why our project would be significantly different.”

    Insulting implications in the comparison to the Tea Party aside, he correctly identified how factions move parties.

  41. 41.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: 

    Agree generally. Although it’s a little more difficult for us because GOP “moderates” are more committed to their party than Dem moderates are. But I do believe progressives need to start demonstrating proof of concept of they want to move to the next level.

  42. 42.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @OzarkHillbilly: amazing photos.   The Rapinoe pic is spectacular – the color, the composition.

    It’s telling how the US media didn’t cover the massacre in Northern Ireland.   Had it been in the West End of London it would had been a frenzy.

  44. 44.

    Nelle

    • @OzarkHillbilly: You likely won’t see this but your line “off to get Baby Girl” are some of the most comforting ones I read.  Affection.  Joyous routine.  A bond across generations.
  45. 45.

    Another Scott

    @NotMax:  Can you see what caused the flat? Nail? I’ve had good luck plugging punctures with this – https://smile.amazon.com/Safety-Seal-Light-Deluxe-Repair/dp/B0080IJYVK

    (There are cheaper kits. I’ve only had luck with the stringy kinds of plugs, not the hard rubber kinds – those always seem to leak for me. Also, you want a good tool – having it break is obviously bad.)

    Just an option, that assumes the tire hasn’t broken away from the wheel. Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  46. 46.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @satby:

    I love that the days will begin to imperceptibly get a little longer.

    There’s always that one afternoon sometime in January where it suddenly hits you that it’s six o’clock and it’s still light out! By rights, that day in 2021 should be January 20.

  47. 47.

    Low Key Swagger

    @Booger: Sure, if you have the strength.  I use a cordless torque wrench all the time.  It is especially useful when loosening mower blades, which seem to tighten particularly fast.  I used to use breaker bars, and got tired of stripping nuts, or stripping the four-way.  YMMV

  49. 49.

    debbie

    @MazeDancer:

    Woke up, lit my white candle, did my little Solstice ceremony, and am hoping for a better year. One never knows what works and what doesn’t.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: It’s not clear to me from my admittedly limited experience in offline party politics that moderate Dems are less attached to the party than their counterparts on the other side, but maybe that’s so. 

  59. 59.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Both Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris are liberal and progressive. Politico and MSM’s description of progressive implies that you need to be BS stan to be progressive.

  60. 60.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @debbie:

    A Russian agent sent to tail opposition leader Alexey Navalny has revealed how he was poisoned in August — with the lethal nerve agent Novichok planted in his underpants.

    […]

    In what he was told was a debriefing

    Ummmm….

  62. 62.

    rikyrah

    EITC payments can be as much as $6,557 with three or more qualifying children, so this deal could be a $500/month retroactive payment for those families.Sorry to the haters, but I think Pelosi & Schumer have done a damn good job this year.— Nathan Newman ? "GOP Cut Your Checks in Half" (@nathansnewman) December 21, 2020

  63. 63.

    Baud

    @rikyrah: It is what the Tea Party did. I’m not sure what else they can do since they will have a tough time winning in purple districts, and there aren’t many open seats in a particular year.

     

     

    @schrodingers_cat: We don’t have good terms for our intraparty distinctions.  It’s a perennial problem.

  65. 65.

    Chyron HR

    @Baud: 

    Progressives look for reset after disappointing year

    Hang in there, progressives, Trump could still win this thing.

  68. 68.

    Baud

    @rikyrah:

    “They don’t look so good when you compare them to how good I did in my imaginary world where I’m in charge of everything.” /twitter

  69. 69.

    Betty Cracker

    @rikyrah: Isn’t that what primaries are for, so people within the party can have a contest of ideas? It can be destructive in some situations, e.g., an embattled incumbent in a nasty primary could survive the primary challenge only to lose to the Republican when the challenger’s people stay home. But in most cases, it’s legit, IMO. Otherwise, you’ve got swathes of the party unrepresented, which will inevitably lead to far more destructive 3rd party nonsense.

  72. 72.

    HinTN

    @NotMax: As odd as this sounds, you may have success by first attempting to tighten the nut and then loosening it. Apply WD-40, tighten just a smidge, loosen.

    Funny story about an ignorant teenager: my father had an Oldsmobile Super 88. Got a flat on the rear. Damn those lug nuts were tight. Remembered the tighten first trick. Lug nut came right loose – they were left handed threads!

  73. 73.

    gene108

    Stating the obvious, but it keeps needing to be said. Eric Boehlert in Press Run.

    Journalists covering Capitol Hill understand how legislation is made. They understand when parties are working in good faith and when one side is simply obstructing. There is no deep mystery involved. Republicans have been blocking Covid relief for eight months (!), yet journalists remain committed to the storyline that Both Sides cannot come together and compromise for the good of the nation. “Capitol Hill’s failure to compromise” is hurting America, CNN recently stressed.

    Let’s talk about compromising. House Democrats in May passed a massive $3 trillion Covid relief package. To win over Republican support in the Senate, they then agreed to support a smaller $2 trillion version. Today, they’re ready to sign off on a further reduced $908 billion proposal.

    Republican leaders won’t even agree to that, yet the press consistently blames “Congress” for not being able to meet halfway and pass much-needed assistance. It’s not possible that journalists don’t see what’s happening. It’s not possible that reporters, producers, and editors don’t understand the dynamics so clearly in play, which means the misguided, Both Sides Covid coverage has been deliberately designed to mislead news consumers.

    And it’s working!

    Recent polling suggests a plurality of Americans blame Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) for the delay in passing Covid relief. This, despite the fact Pelosi oversaw the passage of a $3 trillion Covid assistance bill, which the Republican Senate promptly ignored, in part because the White House told Republicans that the pandemic would be over by September.

    Why do so many Americans blame Pelosi? Because the press has flushed the Democrats’ $3 trillion relief bill down the memory hole, as they continue to stress that Both Sides are to blame for the lack of action. The unprecedented $3 trillion American bailout is almost never mentioned in the coverage today over Covid negotiations. Committed to the idea that Both Sides aren’t budging, the fact that Democrats have moved from $3 trillion to $900 billion is set aside because it ruins the “gridlock” storyline.

    https://pressrun.media/p/the-medias-defining-failure-of-2020

  74. 74.

    Low Key Swagger

    @Booger: Sorry, to be clear, when I said “torque” wrench I really meant “impact” wrench, and they are not interchangeable.  Coffee, it helps.

  78. 78.

    gene108

    @Gin & Tonic:

    A day for reflection here. I am, today, the age my father was when he died.

    From my experience the reflection will last longer than a day. It’s a weird feeling. My died young, but I didn’t appreciate how young, until I was that age.

  80. 80.

    NotMax

    @HinTN

    Once owned a big ol’ ’68 Chrysler station wagon on which the rear wheel bolts were reverse threaded. Was given it (used) gratis as a bonus in lieu of extra cash for a job. Threw me quite the curve ball the first time went to swap out the rear tires for snow tires. Front wheels carried H tires, rear wheels Ks. 440 V-8; beast would probably have climbed a vertical wall had I ever wanted it to.

  81. 81.

    gene108

    @Baud:

    It doesn’t help when we have so many people “in house” who blame Dems.

    Yeah, I don’t know what to do about it. So many people blame Dems for not “messaging” the right way, when they ignore the media’s complicity in carrying water for Republicans.

    Rachel Bitecofer, on Twitter, is most annoying this way. She does broad stroke critiques of Democrats “messaging” failures, without addressing the media’s war on reality that ignores Republicans’ actions.

    It’s as if only Democrats have agency, and Republicans just do whatever it is they do, and they can, at best, only react to Democratic actions.

  83. 83.

    debbie

    @gene108:

    My youngest brother went through that same thing (my father died at 44). He maintained a number of bad habits, saying he was doomed anyway (or words to that effect). Boy, is he paying for that now that he’s in his middle 50s.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    @gene108: IMHO, we’re not going to solve this problem until people feel comfortable supporting Democratic efforts.  We are such a broad coalition that we have a free rider problem: every group thinks it’s some other faction’s responsibility to support Democrats, and in the end, not enough people do it.  Plus, our culture rewards savvy cynicism, or cynical savviness. Either way, it only plays into GOP hands.

    But it appears that not even the Trump experience can get our people to change their ways.

  85. 85.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Well, the 6:00 p.m. was random. Of course the time is going to vary from one latitude and/or time zone to another. But I think everybody knows the “wow, it’s still kind of light!” sensation, as winter wanes.

  86. 86.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Well BS with a red lip has said so in so many words that in an ideal world ? she wouldn’t be a Dem.

    Although I don’t know where in the world does my way or no way purity politics that the DSA roses advocate work.

  88. 88.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: The predicament reminds me of the asymmetrical challenge a parent who believes in good nutrition faces when she has to co-parent with someone who thinks it’s fine for the kids to have Pixie Stix and Coke for supper every night.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’m going to try to focus on messaging rather than the messengers.  Even ordinary, non-DSA Dems sometimes fall into the cynicism trap.  Obviously, some people in social media and the media do it so often and consistently that they shouldn’t be given any credibility or influence (for example, people like Greenwald).  But for most people, the key IMHO is simply standing up for ourselves when attacks are off base.

  93. 93.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat: Right.  And when they go off base, I’m not advocating ignoring them.  But I don’t think they do that consistently enough that we should dismiss them altogether.  YMMV.

  95. 95.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Fellow commenter Suzanne pointed to an interesting article in Vox the other day that claimed Americans don’t think like citizens but rather like shoppers and should be messaged accordingly. I’ve thought something similar for decades now but wasn’t sure it was safe to trust my instincts on that because of professional bias.

    It’s complicated by all sorts of factors, including bigotry, but I think Republicans have benefited mightily from Reagan’s assertion that government is bad and that turning the tide on that in a broad way would require successfully communicating that government is us rather than some nefarious outside entity and that it can be a force for good.

    Dems say that in a ton of ways, of course, but almost always as an unspoken assumption in support of a life-improving policy like the ACA or stimulus checks or what have you. I’m not sure anyone has taken up a sustained effort to communicate how much we all benefit from government right now and what we could accomplish together using our collective will as a force for good. The article had some ideas on that score.

  96. 96.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @debbie:

    My mother died at 58y, 2m, 1d. I calculated the exact date that would occur for me, spent the lead-up in trepidation, and breathed a huge sigh of relief once the day was done. A few weeks later, I had quadruple bypass surgery.

    Several weeks ago, my sister and I were talking about our aunt (mother’s sister), who died at 75 and a few weeks. Joyce (sister) had just had her 75th birthday. A few weeks later, she too was dead. Her twin brother, OTOH, is thriving. There is very little predicting these things, but it’s still a very odd feeling to know you have outlived a parent.

    Happy solstice and long life to all Jackals!

  99. 99.

    Geminid

    @Baud: One data point regarding purple districts was this year’s Nebraska 2nd Congressional District race, in which progressive favorite Kara Eastman lost a district Biden carried. Her opponent was an establishment type republican. A similar republican, Randy Wittman, won the VA 1st District that Biden carried.                                                  The “Tea party” wing- rebranded in Virginia as “Constitutional Conservative”- thrives in part because of bright red gerrymandered districts. A few years ago I was first introduced to “One Virginia,” an anti-gerrymandering campaign, by a customer. He was a retired cardiologist and had just returned from a campaign meeting at the home of the main paving contractor in my area. I would call both men Chamber of Commerce/Country Club republicans. He pretty much said they wanted to cut the tea party down to size. This was after Eric Cantor got knocked out by Dave Brat in the VA 7th, and Scott Rigell (VA2nd) and Robert Hurt (VA 5th) retired at relatively young ages, I suspect because they did not want to run the tea party gauntlet to win renomination.                                                                     One Virginia won its anti-gerrymandering campaign, and Virginia will redistricting next year with a somewhat cumbersome independent commission. But the republican party is now thoroughly infested with “constitutional conservatives,” and I suspect it will a take a couple cycles of being thrashed by Democrats for the Chamber of Commerce types to regain control.

  100. 100.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    Fellow commenter Suzanne pointed to an interesting article in Vox the other day that claimed Americans don’t think like citizens but rather like shoppers and should be messaged accordingly. I’ve thought something similar for decades now but wasn’t sure it was safe to trust my instincts on that because of professional bias.

    I feel this way, and I’ve always felt this was the real victory of libertarianism.  I also think this idea has taken hold among some parts the (broadly defined) left, which has hurt us.  I mean, why work with and compromise with other (impure) people in the coalition when you can choose not to purchase the good?  To me, it’s ironic because one of the features that distinguishes lefty politics is recognition of the importance of collective action.

    I’m skeptical that giving into this philosophy in our messaging will be to our long term benefit.

  101. 101.

    Jay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    AOC’s “top ten” are different enough from Biden’s “top ten”,

    in a Nation that had more than two viable political parties, yeah, they would be in two different Parties.

    In BC, for example, Biden would be on the fringe between the Liberals, ( who arn’t liberal), and the Dippers, ( NDP),

    AOC would be a Green.

    The Democratic Party is a “big tent”, so glad you want to kick so many out of the tent.

  102. 102.

    artem1s

    Interesting article on expiring relief funds in NE OH.

    One of two emergency utility aid programs in Cuyahoga County runs dry

    Many of those who received the assistance were Cleveland Public Power and Cleveland Water Department customers, Boustani says. People who applied for the city and county’s rental-assistance fund, who told CHN they also needed help paying their back utility bills, were another big source of applications. That rental-aid program still has money left in it, Boustani adds, about $5 million for the city and $1.1 million for the county, and doesn’t face the same Dec. 31 deadline as the utility assistance money.

  103. 103.

    Jay

    @artem1s:

    forget where, but yesterday I read a story on how one State deliberately made Covid relief hard to access, ( hidden websites, complex forms),

    so $1.1 Billion was left on the table,

    Which the State is now going to use to subsidize For Profit Prisons.

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    @Jay: There may be a struggle for influence within the Democratic party, but I don’t see anyone trying to kick anyone else out of the “big tent.”

  105. 105.

    Uncle Cosmo

    For a minute I thought that church was the Arctic Cathedral in Tromsø, Norway, & I thought, Hey, wait a minute, that’s above the Arctic Circle & the sun shouldn’t rise **at all** today….

    (o/t Anyone who hasn’t got that far north [I was there in August 2000] is encouraged to do so in summertime – it’s a strange experience. The “midnight sun” is not at all what you might imagine: it stays so low in the sky that the day is essentially 24 hours of late afternoon.)

  106. 106.

    Jay

    @Geminid:

    Cat has a weird obsession/hatred for AOC and the Posse that dates back to the Sunshine event rat fucking by ReThugs/Politico.

    really, running to Yurtle the Turtle’s Press Officer, and not naming him, for a “hot take” on a coordinated “event” between Nancy Smash and AOC to get press on “The Green New Deal”,

    only to have certain “libs” embed it in their psyche.

  107. 107.

    Chyron HR

    @Jay:

    I see the alleged “left” is still operating under the asymmetrical “Bernie and DA SQUAD can shit on ordinary Democratic voters all they want but how dare you commoners respond in kind” rules.

  109. 109.

    Betty Cracker

    @Chyron HR: Maybe every faction within the party should stop shitting on other factions within the party? Seeing as how only one party is even remotely interested in governing this complex, fucked up country, perhaps continuous internecine squabbling is a luxury we can no longer afford.

  110. 110.

    frosty

    @Low Key Swagger: Stripping or breaking the studs is an easy repair for a shop. Lug nuts can be bought at the dealer. ROUNDING the nuts because you’re using a cheap wrench is a problem. The only solution then is an acetylene torch to burn them off.
    If you end up with your spare put on with 3 or 4 lug nuts, you should be able to drive it to a close shop or tire place. 

  111. 111.

    topclimber

    @schrodingers_cat: Picking on someone for their fantasy of an ideal world only works if you can conclusively show they don’t operate in the real one. You never have about the red lipped woman you so loathe.

  112. 112.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Betty Cracker: Congressional Dems need to operate on an “if you won’t say it to my face, don’t say it to anyone else” standard.  It would cut down on a lot of running to the press when people don’t get their way.  Now, how to get them to adopt it….

  113. 113.

    Immanentize

    Ok,. I just read a very good piece of news at TPM:

    The statue of Robert E. Lee in the US Capitol was removed early this morning.

    Linky

  114. 114.

    Baud

    @Immanentize:

    In addition to likely passing the relief bill, looks like they’re not going to shut down the government. I’m not sure where the Defense authorization act stands, but Trump has threatened to veto that.  That should be interesting.

  115. 115.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I generally find my favorite method is multiple futile attempts to make it work, banging the shit out of my hands, throwing the tools down multiple times while shouting creative profanities and reaching for the phone multiple times to call roadside assist. I’ll go through one rage-inducing battle with the automated menu, hang up and then take another shot at moving the bad lug myself.

    Usually, that’s the step that does the trick.

  116. 116.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: Converting political messaging into consumer messaging has some appeal, because it may have short term effectiveness.  In the long term, I agree that it is likely to be pernicious.  IMO, it is of a piece with the idea of running government like a business.  Superficially appealing, but fundamental wrong.

  120. 120.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Immanentize:

    My mom and dad had a shitty Robert E Lee painting they insisted on hanging in my bedroom as a kid (they had a tendency toward dumb shit like that – don’t get me started on the antique brass music stand they got me for my 10th birthday as my big gift to read my music off of as I practiced the clarinet, an instrument I despised).

    I’ve made my kids promise to burn the painting on Facebook Live if my mother outlives me.

  121. 121.

    schrodingers_cat

    @topclimber: Just because I don’t worship at her altar doesn’t mean that  I  loathe her. The Democratic Party is all that stands between people like me and the Republicans who would love to disenfranchise me or kill me if they could get away with it.
    I am not kindly disposed to those who on paper are the members of the said party but spend a better part of their day complaining about how the Democratic party is  not kowtowing to their whims.

    If not for the Socialist Jesus and his 2016 campaign and his rigged primary (similar to the Orange One’s stolen election) rhetoric, HRC would most likely have been President. I (and many others) would not have to spend 4 years in dread.

    His protégé is doing the same thing poisoning the well against Dems. Defund the police rhetoric worked like magic in turning people away from Dems where they needed to win the senate seats.

  122. 122.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: I rather liked that recently, when media types went to the Biden campaign to ask about the latest spurious allegation about Hunter — instead of talkng to the individual looking for a scoop, they issued a press release to all.  The pundit class is going to hate having to work for info rather than just calling up the four dozen west wing leakers.

  123. 123.

    Jay

    @Betty Cracker:

    as long as you can make $250k per year at FTFNYT or WaPo for a “Dems in Disarray” op-ed, ain’t gonna happen.

    since at least 2018( other than the Blue Dogs run at Nancy Smash), I havn’t seen any examples of “elected” Dems, shitting on “elected” Dems,

    seen lot’s of anon “insider” and “pundit” inside baseball, that turns out to simply be clickbait and wasted electrons,……

  124. 124.

    Geminid

    @Immanentize: There is a proposal to replace the Lee statue with one of Barbara Johns, who as a teenager led the fight against school segregation in Price Edward County, Va.                                  The Stonewall Jackson Statue at VMI was removed a week or so ago. The plan is to set it back up at the New Market battlefield, where VMI has a museum.

  125. 125.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic: First, congratulations on another successful trip around our friend the sun!!  ???

    But on the reflection side — men in my family have died youngish.  My GFather died of cancer at 53, my brother of heart disease (+ MS) at 59, my Dad from cancer at 63.  I’m not to his age yet, and I consider my brother an anomaly.  So I figure each generation is getting seven more years — so I have ten years left at a minimum!  Seriously though, all three were big smokers, my brother with asthma.  And my GFather was a drinker, an angry drunk, I’m told.  And my Dad was both a smoker and a stress drinker (daily cocktail after work).  I’ve lived better than they, but genetics are a cruel master.

  130. 130.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Immanentize: It’s odd that their idea of verifying something is asking an additional person rather then reading publicly available documents. That won’t work in every case, of course, but come on! The internet makes that much easier than it used to be.

  134. 134.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Jay: Not up on all the cool kids’ vernacular, but is this “shitting on”?

    One major difference between GOP and Dems is that GOP leverage their right flank to gain policy concessions and generate enthusiasm, while Dems lock their left flank in the basement bc they think that will make Republicans be nicer to them https://t.co/wqqZPo7xru
    — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) December 20, 2020

  136. 136.

    mad citizen

    @Betty Cracker: “It’s complicated by all sorts of factors, including bigotry, but I think Republicans have benefited mightily from Reagan’s assertion that government is bad and that turning the tide on that in a broad way would require successfully communicating that government is us rather than some nefarious outside entity and that it can be a force for good.”

    Exactly.  I’ve posted here a few times (hoping Biden’s people scope us out!) that I really hope Biden deals with Reagan’s famous line(s) from 40 years ago.  I’m too lazy to look up, but I’m guessing Reagan had it in his inaugural speech in 1981.  Perfect symmetry now, being exactly 40 years later.  A lot of shit has gone down.  The R’s have talked shit about government for so long, yet somehow want to be the ones in power, etc.  I’m sure Biden and his speechwriters can do this well without being partisan–you know, oblique but OBVIOUS references.

  137. 137.

    topclimber

    @schrodingers_cat: In my ideal world, you and AOC hold hands and sing Kumbaya. In the real world, I hope you reconcile to the fact that she is someone to work with.

    I also note that the Poltico article called on the left to be more ethnically diverse. My first thought was–you mean like the Squad?

    Perhaps you are right that Bernie cost Hillary the election. I can think of other explanations. For the record, though, AOC did not enter public life until her election to Congress in 2018. Do not conflate her role with his just because they share some beliefs.

  138. 138.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: I think it’s best that Democrats in Congress criticize each other face to face, not in the media. The latter course plays into the republican strategy of pitting the progressive and moderate wings against each other. But I don’t think it hurts anybody if the jackals here bark at each other over these issues, as long as they don’t snarl.

  139. 139.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic: I think that is kind of accurate?  Did you hear about the insider bag job she got regarding her committee assignment?  Not surprising because, as they say, payback is the Mother of Rome.

    Although Dems got to piss on AOC (led by Texas’ Henry Cuellar who was angry about being primaried, no doubt) they chose a paricularly poor NY Rep. (Rice) to take the spot sought by Ocasio.

  140. 140.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Immanentize: I, being who I am, calculated the age to the day, so my trip around the sun is not yet complete.

    I’m not sure what genetics hold in store for me, as most of my male ancestors died earlier than I think they might have otherwise, due to external factors. My mother and most of the females in the line lived very long lives.

    But as they say, “it’s not the years, it’s the miles.” My father had a lot more miles on him at this age, I think.

  142. 142.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic: The mind of an engineer/mathematician.  I haven’t done that yet for my Dad.  He had plenty of miles on him, too.

    PS. Ordinary Derivatives = A(+) but the + makes no gpa difference.

  143. 143.

    lowtechcyclist

    @rikyrah: 

    Picking off Democratic incumbents is still part of the plan??

    This is why people like me don’t phuck with these clowns ?

    Well sure, if you’re happy with Henry Cuellar representing us in a D+9 district.

    The Republicans are happy with that too.

  146. 146.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Graham Vyse @GrahamVyse
    · Dec 17
    .@AOC tells @davidaxelrod that in a different country she’d probably be in a labor party and maybe @JoeBiden “would be….there’s usually kind of a neoliberal party. Usually there’s a party that’s kind of a corporate consensus but not socially regressive.”

    Is “not socially regressive corporate consensus neoliberal” a term of endearment?

  148. 148.

    Jay

    @Gin & Tonic:

    nope, it’s reality.

    ReThugs embrace their most winger base,

    The Democratic Party as a Party locks theirs in the basement because as a broad coalition, since Reagan, for votes, it’s more important to keep the Blue Dogs, onside, than push left.

    It’s a reality, a fact. Pointing that out should not be devising,

    Keep in mind, that the run at Nancy Smash, was Blue Dogs, not “progressives”.

  149. 149.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jay: Good point about the pundits’ monetization of strife angle, but there have been public elected-on-elected throw-downs aplenty since the election, with reps from both wings of the party trying to pin the blame on down-ticket losses on the other.

  150. 150.

    Betty Cracker

    @mad citizen: If ever there was a time you could point to the government as a potential force for good, now is it! We’ve got problems that are too large to be addressed by any other entity.

  151. 151.

    moonbat

    @Jay: Why don’t you go back to shit-posting scary links with no explanations? Because you’re crap at engaging people in discussion.

  153. 153.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: Henry Cuellar won his primary, so a lot of Democrats in his District must be happy with him representing them, even if you are not. And the Republicans were probably disappointed when he won his primary, since that frustrated their narrative that only liberals are welcome in the Democratic party.

  155. 155.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I didn’t mean to be picky.

    You weren’t, at all. I was snarlier in my response than I intended. And how well I remember those dark winter afternoons in Chicagoland!

  157. 157.

    gwangung

    It would help if ALL Democrats focussed their fire on the Republics.

    Shrink the Republicans, drown them In a tub THEN squabble about power.

  158. 158.

    Immanentize

    @Geminid: The primary was really quite close, considering Cuellar is a pretty powerful politician — in congress for eight terms already.  And his challenger was a 26 year old newby attorney from the Valley who ended up with 48% of the vote.  I don’t think his district really would have cried if he had lost.  Frankly, I don’t think the Dem leadership would have wept, either, although they did run their normal incumbency protection program to support him.

    In other news, Connor Lamb just had a baby daughter.  I was kinda hoping he would name her Ilhan — but no.

  160. 160.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Well there’s a reason he had to go.

     

    NEW: AG Barr at a news conference says he sees no reason to appoint special counsels into either Hunter Biden or President Trump's baseless claims of widespread fraud tainting the 2020 election.— Alex Mallin (@alex_mallin) December 21, 2020

  161. 161.

    Betty Cracker

    @Geminid: Cuellar is anti-choice, pro-NRA, pro-Koch bucks and voted with Trump 75% of the time, all in a district Biden won fairly handily. Maybe Cisneros wasn’t the right person to primary him, but it was really close and Cuellar had the advantage of incumbency. I hope Democrats keep right on primarying him until he’s out of a job.

  162. 162.

    zhena gogolia

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s really something. The best part are his associates sitting next to him and covering their mouths so they don’t burst out with something audible.

  165. 165.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Betty Cracker: So.  Is his district to his left and Biden’s performance is an indicator?  Does he match up will with his district and they just hate Trump?  Or is it something else?  FWIW, I think he is exactly the kind of person that a “more and better Democrats” philosophy should be targeting – as long as both sides in the primary remember to vote for the D in the general.  He was primaried; he survived – it’s always a risk.

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez @AOC Dec 18

    Let me make something EXTRA clear. Dems have demanded:
    – $1200 checks
    – restoring $600 UI
    – Retroactive benefits
    That’s not just a statement- even Speaker Pelosi has pushed for retroactive benefits.
    Senate Republicans are hacking it back to $600 & demanding corporate bailouts

    I guess I should be glad she mentioned Republicans, but… why “even”? It’s in bold in her original tweet.

  167. 167.

    The Moar You Know

    Jupiter and Saturn are set to cross paths in the night sky, appearing to the naked eye as a “double planet”.

    The timing of this conjunction, as the celestial event is known, has caused some to suggest it may have been the source of a bright light in the sky 2,000 years ago.

    That became known as the Star of Bethlehem.

    The planets are moving closer together each night and will reach their closest point on 21 December.

     

    @Brachiator:  It won’t look like one star.  Just two, very, very very close together.

    I popped out the telescope and put on the highest magnification eyepiece I have last night (9.7mm Plosssl) and the two fit very nicely in the field of view.  That’s not an experience you ever get with planets, pretty cool.  Jupiter and the four moons, Saturn, twice as far away but not much smaller in the eyepiece due to the rings.

  169. 169.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: Cuellar wasn’t just an incumbent. Two of his siblings hold high local offices. I kept expecting to hear stories of Cisneros getting pulled over for petty driving violations when she ventured into the County outside Laredo. But times have changed, and the Cuellar machine had to exert its influence less blatantly.

  170. 170.

    Betty Cracker

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t know the district well enough to say for certain, but from what I read, it sounds like a light blue suburb of a darker blue city in a red state. That’s the type of district where Dems can and have made gains over the past four years.

  171. 171.

    The Moar You Know

    It would help if ALL Democrats focussed their fire on the Republics.

    Shrink the Republicans, drown them In a tub THEN squabble about power.

    @gwangung: Had every political party in Germany focused on the guy who told them explicitly from day one he would take them all out, have their leaders shot and ban them forever, Hitler would have ended up a fifth-rate political grifter sucking up to the German Army for enough food to eat every day.

    Instead, they forswore working in a united fashion, instead tried to use Hitler to take out their competition, literally up until the moment he outlawed the last of them for forever.

  172. 172.

    The Moar You Know

    Now you’ve made me wonder, with rising sea levels how many ancient low-lying sites will be lost forever under the waves?

    @stinger:  We already had a massive sea-level rise after the end of the last ice age.  Since most of humanity’s ancestors (and competitors) were coastal dwellers, almost all of our history, especially in the Americas, from about 100,000 to 10,000 years ago is well below the waves; we can count ourselves very fortunate to have what little we’ve got.

  173. 173.

    catclub

    @stinger: Now you’ve made me wonder, with rising sea levels how many ancient low-lying sites will be lost forever under the waves?

     

    Forever is a long time.  I figure when the sun expands and the oceans boil off they will be uncovered.

  176. 176.

    Jay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    see my answer the last time you trotted out that bullshit.

    AOC has a different top ten than Joe. If the US had more than one functioning Party, they would be in different parties.

    In BC, Joe would probably be a Liberal, (our Cons), allied with wingnuts, but not a wingnut.

    AOC would be a Green, ( which ain’t anything like your Greens, more like the German Greens).

  179. 179.

    Zelma

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I disagree with you and Baud that taking into account the idea that voters think like consumers rather than citizens is somehow bad.  I think we have to meet people where they are.  I have long thought that too many folks simply take for granted all the benefits they receive from the government.  It’s like that famous sign, “Keep your hands off my Medicare,”  directed at the party that gave him Medicare.  We laughed at his ignorance, but I think we are missing the point.  His ignorance is dangerous – and too widespread.

    Like I said on an earlier thread, I have no idea how this can be done. I only know that it must be done.  The Democratic Party is identified as the “party of big government.”  Somehow this has to be made into a good thing rather than a bad thing.

    It won’t be easy because the Republicans have mounted a forty year long attack on the idea that the government exists to serve its citizens.  We are all “consumers” of government services and if there were a better understanding of their benefits, maybe there would be more good “citizens.”

  180. 180.

    Geminid

    @Jay:  Canada has a parliamentary system in which three or more parties can be viable. Our system has resulted in two standing coalitions that compete to win a majority or large plurality in local, state and federal races. For all its flaws, I would not trade it for the parliamentary systems I see in action.                                                                 Some people, including Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, sometimes muse about a better, parliamentary system with, say, four ideologically compact parties. This summer she pointed to the formation of a Spanish coalition government as proof of concept, because it included the left and the center-left parties. But Ocasio-Cortez did not mention that this government was formed only after two elections, and was still a minority government.

  181. 181.

    Jay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    because there has been shitloads of bothsiderist punditry and a shit ton of Rose Twitter shitting on Nancy.

    She’s pointing out that even one of the most powerfull, and more “Conservative” members of the Democratic Party is fully on board.

  183. 183.

    Betty Cracker

    @Omnes Omnibus: You asked me a question about the political orientation of the district, and I replied to the best of my knowledge. I realize, of course, that the Koch buck-hoovering, NRA darling, anti-choice “Democrat” was reelected. If I lived in that shit-stain’s district, I’d probably have had to vote for him in the general too since the Republican alternative is almost invariably worse. Doesn’t mean Dems shouldn’t try to upgrade the occupant of that seat.

  184. 184.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize:

    Did you hear about the insider bag job she got regarding her committee assignment?  Not surprising because, as they say, payback is the Mother of Rome.

    I must have missed that.  What happened?  If she got shitty committee assignments, maybe she can think about what she might have done that landed her there.  If she can’t figure it out, she should be having a conversation with Nancy Pelosi to help her figure it out, so it doesn’t happen again.

  185. 185.

    stinger

    @The Moar You Know: I’m too lazypressed for time to look up the elevation of the island of Gravinis, and of Newgrange, Bryn Celli Ddu, Lascaux, L’Anse aux Meadows, and so on around the world.

     

    @catclub: True. And the cockroaches will gaze up at them in momentary wonder, then crawl on about their business.

  186. 186.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Immanentize: “Boli” my Dad said near the end.

    It hurts. (Czech) (I know you know, Imm, but for the benefit of others.)

    Lost a good friend to pancreatic cancer last millennium. We’d fallen out of touch & I didn’t hear until he was terminal. I called him wanting to visit & he said, Today isn’t a good day. Before I could arrange another date he was gone, age 56. :^(

  187. 187.

    stinger

    @Zelma: Sometimes when driving, I’ll see a sign saying “This [improved surface/new bypass/whatever] made possible by the XXXXX tax.” We ought to be able to point out obviously desirable expenditures of public funds in lots of places — new school buildings, renovated hospitals, city and county and state parks, free vaccines, whatever — just label them as “Here are your tax dollars at work — isn’t this GREAT?”

    Overall, though, I agree that while short-term we may need to appeal to the consumer in people, we need to simultaneously educate them to think like citizens. Life is a pendulum, and in the forties and fifties people thought of gubmint programs as lifesavers, had framed pictures of FDR in their living rooms, etc. Post-Trump and post-pandemic, the time will be ripe to help push that pendulum to the other side.

  188. 188.

    Betty Cracker

    @schrodingers_cat: You are correct that there’s nothing “conservative” about Pelosi, but she is the “establishment,” so she’s a target. I’m old enough to remember when Pelosi was portrayed as a far leftist whose “San Francisco values” (i.e., support for LGBTQ equality) were considered detrimental to the party’s fortunes. How things change!

  189. 189.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: Ocasio-Cortez did not get a shitty Commitee seat. She was just denied a coveted seat on one of the five most powerful committees, in a 46-13 vote by the Caucus Steering(?) Commitee. Second year Representatives typically don’t get these seats anyway, although Libby Fletcher (TX) got one on the commitee Ocasio-Cortez was shooting for, and Lauren Underwood (IL) was voted a seat on the powerful Ways and Means Commitee. Underwood barely won reelection in her purple district. The Democratic leadership may have wanted to shore up her position at home by giving her extra clout.                   Underwood was considered so vulnerable that the republicans tapped her 70 year old opponent for their special “Young Guns” program.

  190. 190.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: that’s a pretty dramatic vote. Almost as if it reflects a general inability to get along with your colleagues and not one grudge borne by a bitter old Blue Dog

     Underwood was considered so vulnerable that the republicans tapped her 70 year old opponent for their special “Young Guns” program.

    I loved the whole Young Guns thing! Even when they started I had both feet firmly planted in middle age, and Paul Ryan was the only “Young Gun” younger than I. And IIRC he was barely on the sunny side of 40

  191. 191.

    Zelma

    @stinger:

    I’ve seen those signs too and they are possibly helpful.  But so much of how we benefit from government is not quite so obvious as a new road.  (Plus half the people will complain about the inconvenience the improvement causes and blame the government.).

    I almost think we need a kind of dystopian message about where we’d be without government regulation.  For example, I live in an upscale beach community with lovely beaches.  A couple of decades ago, tar and oil would wash up because tankers leaving Philadelphia flushed out their tanks as they left.  The government made it illegal.  Presto, no tar on the beach.  But nobody except old timers like me remember what it used to be like.

    Also, I spent my life in higher education and I have a much less optimistic view of educating people to be “citizens.”

  192. 192.

    The Moar You Know

    that’s a pretty dramatic vote. Almost as if it reflects a general inability to get along with your colleagues and not one grudge borne by a bitter old Blue Dog

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  Yeah.  Always hate to see people fail to understand the system they joined up with.  Met a few guys like that in working with the military.  They don’t last.  One enlistment and then promptly turfed out.

    The way I see it, she’s got about one more election cycle where she can coast on the fame and fortunes of the Rose contingent, and then she’s going to get her seat stolen out from under her for not bringing home actual money, jobs, or frankly anything to her district.  She could stop antagonizing her colleagues and leadership, but she won’t, and if you don’t do that, you don’t get the good seats and you don’t bring home the bacon.

  194. 194.

    Geminid

    @The Moar You Know: New York will have lost a seat in redistricting when 2022 comes around, and the folks in Albany won’t be doing Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez any favors. She may be thrown into a district with freshmen Richie Torres or Jamaal Bowman. But if she wins reelection, I would not be surprised if Ocasio-Cortez challenges Senator Krysten Gillebrand in 2024. But that’s a long way away.  The 2022 election will be hugely important. I was hoping a big Democratic win this year would take some pressure off, but it looks like the next two cycles will be tense and fraught. I may have to glue my radio to the classical music station, and get a crappy flip phone.

  198. 198.

    germy

    Ocasio-Cortez was expected to cruise comfortably to the position. She was the first to raise her hand for the seat, and she won the backing of dean of the New York delegation Rep. Jerry Nadler. But last week, as Politico reported, Long Islander Kathleen Rice made an out-of-nowhere, last-second bid for the seat, interrupting the process. Rep. Rice is a backbencher from the party’s right flank who, in 2018, refused to support Nancy Pelosi for Speaker.Without the support of Nadler, and with the famous opposition of Steering Committee leader Pelosi, Rice’s attempt didn’t seem to be serious.

    But in a surprise, last-second Steering Committee meeting on exclusive committee assignments Thursday, which was scheduled at 10 p.m. the night before, centrist Democrats put on a show of support for Rice and against AOC, in what looks to have been a process-defying attempt to keep AOC out of the seat. Fellow New York Rep. Hakeem Jeffries came out in support of Rice, contra Nadler, as did Reps. Anna Eshoo (D-CA), Diana DeGette (D-CO), and Stephanie Murphy (D-FL)

    Why can’t AOC play nice with others?

  199. 199.

    Geminid

    @Kathleen: Yes, Underwood definitely deserved that commitee seat. She was chosen over other capable, hardworking second term Representatives, though. Like I said, leadership may have wanted to give her that prime position to help her hold that tough district.  The same was done for Congresswoman Elaine Luria (VA-2nd) in 2019, when she was put on the Armed Services Commitee as a freshman. Now that she has won reelection, she’ll probably hold the seat for decades. Luria is a retired Navy officer, and the VA 2nd District is loaded with active and retired Navy people, large Navy bases, and Huntington Ingalls shipyard, where they build aircraft carriers. Pelosi et al want to hold that seat, like they want to hold Underwood’s.

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