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You are here: Home / Open Threads / It Costs $100-200 to be a Person

It Costs $100-200 to be a Person

by $8 blue check mistermix|  February 24, 202110:12 am| 126 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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I renewed my NYS driver’s license and my US passport yesterday, since both were expiring.  It’s $68 to renew the license, and $110 for the passport.  If you are traveling to Canada (a common thing to do if you live in Western New York), it’s another $30 for a “Enhanced” driver’s license, which will get you into Canada or Mexico by land (you need a passport to travel by plane).   I also had to pay to get a passport photo and to mail my application using a tracked service.  So I spent a little over $200 for my necessary documents (I didn’t opt for the “enhanced” license).

This is a lot of money for people who don’t have a lot of money.  Fees like this just keep creeping up, and they’re another trap for the poor.  At least in New York, we don’t need to have a photo id to vote, but a drivers’ license is pretty necessary north and west of New York City.  Why shouldn’t it be free or really cheap (like $10)?

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Reader Interactions

126Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    February 24, 2021 at 10:16 am

    FWIW, with that enhanced license, you’ll breeze in and out of federal buildings.

  2. 2.

    TheOBP

    February 24, 2021 at 10:21 am

    “clap clap clap clap clap” I wholeheartedly agree with this. In fact, I’d go with having them be free. Standard issue to all. Just like a social security card.

    i will add that I understand the State Department would go nuts if people didn’t have the incentive to keep track their passport that a hefty replacement cost involves, but I’d imagine there are other ways to keep passport security.

  3. 3.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 10:23 am

    Mistermix, here’s something you might find amusing.  Upstate NY Republicans:

    Hard Ball Politics In Saratoga Springs: Local Republicans Try To Take Over Working Families Party Ballot Lin

    The Republican effort to capture this line reflects a disturbingly cynical plan to deceive voters in Saratoga Springs. The Republicans apparently hope that people will innocently vote for candidates on the WFP line thinking they are supporting progressive causes unaware that they are voting instead for traditional Republicans.

  4. 4.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 24, 2021 at 10:24 am

    FWIW WI issues a free state ID – of course, this doesn’t take into account the cost and bother of the getting the documents necessary for them to issue the the ID.  And it does not come with driving privileges.

  5. 5.

    Kristine

    February 24, 2021 at 10:24 am

    Why shouldn’t it be free or really cheap (like $10)?

    Same reason toll roads never stop being toll roads long after the roads are paid for. When fees help fund your budget, lowering them gets really hard.

  6. 6.

    prostratedragon

    February 24, 2021 at 10:32 am

    House Oversight Committee hearings on the Postal Service, live. DeJoy is supposed to testify.

  7. 7.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 10:33 am

    @prostratedragon:

    Thanks for the link.  I didn’t know it was today.

  8. 8.

    Ruckus

    February 24, 2021 at 10:34 am

    @Kristine:

    It is strange isn’t it that everything keeps going up in cost. Food, shelter, transportation, etc. What happened to living down on the farm and being self supportive? Was that the BS that I’ve always thought it was?

    Or is it that there are a lot more of us and the desirable areas to live in are far more crowed than they were and most of our conservative friends want no government whatsoever, thinking that we will be able to live better without anyone but the racist sheriff to control the riff raff.

  9. 9.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 10:36 am

    @Ruckus: 
    most of our conservative friends want no government whatsoever, thinking that we will be able to live better without anyone but the racist sheriff to control the riff raff.

    Every conservative I’ve ever personally known has had their hand in multiple government give-backs. Many of them even worked for local government.

  10. 10.

    Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix

    February 24, 2021 at 10:38 am

    @germy:  Third parties are fragile in New York, that’s for sure.

  11. 11.

    SoupCatcher

    February 24, 2021 at 10:38 am

    Additionally, getting a convenient appointment can be challenging.  My California DL was up for renewal pre-pandemic, and there was the option to “upgrade” to the REAL ID, but the earliest appointment I could get to bring in my paperwork to the DMV was six months away.  I renewed the non-Real ID DL

    eta. the earliest appointment was past the point where my DL expired.

  12. 12.

    Almost Retired

    February 24, 2021 at 10:39 am

    I’ll tell you what, Republicans.  I’ll grant you photo ID requirements at the voting booth if you agree to issue free photo IDs, including housecalls with a photographer for the disabled.  Deal?

  13. 13.

    Cheryl Rofer

    February 24, 2021 at 10:39 am

    Why shouldn’t it be free or really cheap (like $10)?

    Because then the rest of the cost would be paid by taxes taken from the rich.

  14. 14.

    dmsilev

    February 24, 2021 at 10:40 am

    @prostratedragon: Relatedly, via the Post,

    USPS to buy up to 165,000 electric delivery trucks

    The U.S. Postal Service will buy as many as 165,000 electric delivery trucks over the next 10 years, spending $482 million to replace its 30-year-old vehicle fleet.
    Defense contractor Oshkosh will produce trucks — known as next-generation delivery vehicles (NGDVs) — with either fuel-efficient internal-combustion engines or battery-electric powertrains, according to an agency announcement. The first vehicles will appear on the street in 2023.
    […]
    The trucks also will have heating and air conditioning, a major upgrade from the milk-carton-shaped “long-life vehicles” (LLVs) that most letter carriers currently drive, which have neither. The LLVs also have a mounting safety risk: Decades of use have created a defect that causes the vehicles to catch fire.

  15. 15.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 10:40 am

    @Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:

    Lots of people up here vote the straight Working Families line.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they accidentally ended up putting Republicans in office.

    I’m always suspicious, so I vote for the Democrat.   And lots of sketchy judges and other conservative types call themselves Independents

  16. 16.

    dmsilev

    February 24, 2021 at 10:42 am

    @SoupCatcher: I had the same issue re: DMV appointments, albeit pre-pandemic. Does the DMV still allow walk-ins under COVID rules? That’s what I ended up doing; the wait was an hour or so once I got to the office.

  17. 17.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 10:45 am

    @dmsilev:

    In my town, it’s appointment only.

    You’re in and out.

  18. 18.

    SoupCatcher

    February 24, 2021 at 10:45 am

    @dmsilev: They were allowing it during the summer here in Santa Clara County, as I was able to walk in for vehicle registration stuff.   We’re at a different tier now, though.  I’ll ask about Real ID.  Thanks!

  19. 19.

    smedley the uncertain

    February 24, 2021 at 10:46 am

    @Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: Independence Party evaporated this year.  I am now partyless… A NoP.

  20. 20.

    Doug R

    February 24, 2021 at 10:46 am

    Not sure I’d get that enhanced license:

     B.C. phasing out enhanced driver’s licence and ID cards used for land entry into U.S.

    The B.C. government says it is phasing out two types of travel identification cards that allowed easier entrance into the United States.

    A statement from the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General says the enhanced driver’s licence and enhanced identification card are being discontinued because other travel documents are more cost effective, remain valid longer and cover air travel.

  21. 21.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 10:48 am

    @Doug R:

    I didn’t bother with an enhanced driver license last time because my passport is still good.

    I couldn’t see spending the extra money.

  22. 22.

    bbleh

    February 24, 2021 at 10:50 am

    Why shouldn’t it be free or really cheap (like $10)?

    Because that would mean raising taxes generally, and wealthy people don’t want to pay taxes for even essential governmental services for the riffraff.  (They made bad life choices, you see.)

  23. 23.

    Chief Oshkosh

    February 24, 2021 at 10:52 am

    @dmsilev: I don’t know that Oshkosh has any experience with electric vehicles on that scale.

    I smell a DeJoy-shaped rat.

  24. 24.

    Kristine

    February 24, 2021 at 10:52 am

    I lucked out when I got my Illinois DL Real ID. No appt required. Got it in the fall, so it was still comfortable outside because boy the line was long. But staffers came out to see what you were there for. They then checked that you had the right paperwork and sorted you into the appropriate line. Another staffer guarded the door to meter folks in. I feared I would be there all afternoon, and I was in my car and pulling out of the parking lot an hour and a half later. I was shocked.

  25. 25.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 24, 2021 at 10:53 am

    @germy: I didn’t bother either, since I have a Global Entry card, same size and shape as a license, and always good for ID.

    Yes, I know Global Entry costs money, but when we could travel it was worth it.

  26. 26.

    Frankensteinbeck

    February 24, 2021 at 10:54 am

    @germy: ​

    The Republican effort to capture this line reflects a disturbingly cynical plan to deceive voters in Saratoga Springs.

    When your political philosophy is your right to be an asshole, being a troll is a fun and obvious step. When you’re a political troll, cheating is a fun and obvious step. Especially if you’re doing it in an asshole way.​​

    EDIT – Witness Mitch McConnell’s glee in announcing that confirming Barrett was a birthday present to Hillary.  That should tell you everything you need to know about McConnell and the Republican Party.

  27. 27.

    VOR

    February 24, 2021 at 10:54 am

    @Almost Retired:  There’s the tell. If they really cared about integrity, they would WANT everyone to have ID. And would therefore make it easier to get ID. Or would accept different types of ID. For example, some states accept things like concealed carry permits but not student IDs. Instead, they want to make ID mandatory for voting and at the same time throw up barriers to getting ID.

  28. 28.

    Subcommandante Yakbreath

    February 24, 2021 at 10:56 am

    A question and a comment. Is the $68 license fee annual or multi-year? I just checked and here in PA it’s $30 for 4 years if you’re under 65. Over 65 it’s $20 for 2 years.

    And at the risk of sounding contrarian, given the operating costs for pretty much any sort of car these days (insurance, maintenance, fuel), 68 bucks for a license doesn’t seem like it would break the camel’s back; but that’s just me.

  29. 29.

    gvg

    February 24, 2021 at 10:58 am

    In Florida, all license’s are real and renewals cost 25. It’s good for 8 years. I have done both walk ins and appointment and it isn’t that bad but I am not in a high population area. There seem to be a bunch of different fees involved in suspensions for various things like DUI or non payment of child support.

  30. 30.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 10:59 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Their motto is “Winning is Everything”

    Everything else is just waiting.

  31. 31.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 11:02 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    She delayed her twitter reply until he was officially Minority Leader Mitch.

    Short and sweet:

    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

    — Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) January 6, 2021

  32. 32.

    dmsilev

    February 24, 2021 at 11:09 am

    @Chief Oshkosh: I don’t know. At least on paper, EVs make a huge amount of sense for the PO: well-defined routes, most of which are fairly short, returning to spend the night at central depots which could be kitted out for charging. Long vehicle life, so up-front costs are less important than running and maintenance costs. And saying that some of the vehicles will be ICE also makes sense; the more rural routes are long enough that you’d need some pretty large battery packs to make that work, so until those prices drop, a mix is sensible.

  33. 33.

    Baud

    February 24, 2021 at 11:13 am

    @Subcommandante Yakbreath: 

    There are some many things keeping poor folks down that something like this, which by itself wouldn’t be a huge deal, takes on added significance.

  34. 34.

    dmsilev

    February 24, 2021 at 11:13 am

    Headline of the day:
    Oklahoma man accused of triple murder confessed to killing neighbor and cooking her heart ‘with potatoes,’ investigators say

  35. 35.

    Soprano2

    February 24, 2021 at 11:13 am

    My husband renewed his driver’s license last week, and he said it was a real shitshow. Took over 1 1/2 hours to do something that normally would take about 15 minutes. Add in that he doesn’t have a cell phone (they expect everyone to have one so they can wait in their cars until it’s time for them to come into the office) and he said it was an awful experience. I’m not even sure what it costs here, somewhere between $20 and $30. I think it lasts 4 years. I agree that if Republicans want everyone to have a certain photo I.D. to vote, that I.D. should be free, and they should provide money from the government to help people get the documents needed to get it. Of course, they’ll never do that, because we all know the real reason for those requirements.

  36. 36.

    Patricia Kayden

    February 24, 2021 at 11:17 am

    Interesting that Republicans and Joe Manchin oppose the confirmations of Biden’s nominees who are: (1) Asian-American woman, (2) Native American woman and (3) Hispanic man. These are the same people who approved Jeff Sessions, Rick Grenell, Alex Azar, Brett Kavanaugh, et al.— Vicki Ringer (@vickiringer) February 24, 2021

  37. 37.

    Puddinhead

    February 24, 2021 at 11:18 am

    @Kristine: In PA, we still pay the temporary tax on liquor enacted after the Johnstown flood (of 1936).

  38. 38.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 24, 2021 at 11:19 am

    @dmsilev: See, that’s American. None of this foreign shit like rice.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    February 24, 2021 at 11:19 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Manchin opposes 2 and 3? That’s news.

  40. 40.

    Baud

    February 24, 2021 at 11:20 am

    @dmsilev:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Have you tried lab grown human heart? Can’t taste the difference.

  41. 41.

    Subcommandante Yakbreath

    February 24, 2021 at 11:21 am

    @Baud:

    You’re right. I was being nitpicky and not taking account of the larger issue.

  42. 42.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 11:24 am

    A social media addiction claims another victim:

    Feds interviewed her and just as they were about to clear her name she decided to drink a bottle of Jack on TikTok and threaten to kill the FBI.

    “I’m glad you know who I am mother fucker” https://t.co/HRjyN3VcbD

    — seditiontracker.com (@seditiontrack) February 23, 2021

  43. 43.

    germy

    February 24, 2021 at 11:26 am

    Today is the day millionaires stop paying into Social Security for the year. Meanwhile, working Americans pay into it all year. Enough!

    It is time to #ScrapTheCap so the ultra-rich contribute at the same rate as everyone else and we can expand—not cut—Social Security benefits. pic.twitter.com/laf7gELb6E

    — Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) February 23, 2021

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    February 24, 2021 at 11:27 am

    Canada is probably thankful for the inconvenience.

  45. 45.

    Cameron

    February 24, 2021 at 11:27 am

    @gvg: I have a FL state ID, since I don’t drive.  Don’t have to renew until 2025 (assuming I’m still around), and it was pretty easy to get.

  46. 46.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 24, 2021 at 11:27 am

    @germy: She seems nice

  47. 47.

    trollhattan

    February 24, 2021 at 11:30 am

    @germy: ​
    Bernie’s not wrong. Remove the FICA deduction cap and Social Security is probably viable regardless of any future demographic trends.

  48. 48.

    trollhattan

    February 24, 2021 at 11:32 am

    @Patricia Kayden: ​
    Of course the “real crime” is calling racists, racists.

  49. 49.

    Barbara

    February 24, 2021 at 11:33 am

    @Patricia Kayden: ​ Yes, agreed it’s outrageous. I will say with respect to Tanden in particular, that although I too think it outrageous that she would be “sunk” over mean tweets, I do find it kind of perplexing when I see serious professionals engaging in twitter battles that descend into not much more than name calling. I could never get away with doing that on anything that actually touches my work.

  50. 50.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    February 24, 2021 at 11:34 am

    @dmsilev: Were the potatoes an important part of that headline? Would this have been a different story with carrots?

  51. 51.

    DCrefugee

    February 24, 2021 at 11:35 am

    It’s even worse if there’s a name change involved, like a when woman wants to renew her driver license after taking the husband’s last name for her previous license and changing back to her maiden name after a divorce. An ex-gf went through hell getting all the docs together to meet FL’s paperwork needs.

  52. 52.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 24, 2021 at 11:36 am

    @germy:  Millionaires like Bernie?

  53. 53.

    Cameron

    February 24, 2021 at 11:36 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Personally I would have gone with whole grains – more fiber, y’know?

  54. 54.

    prostratedragon

    February 24, 2021 at 11:36 am

    @germy:  Then this is truly a day for her to celebrate!

  55. 55.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 24, 2021 at 11:37 am

    @Baud: Manchin said yesterday or the day before he has “concerns” about Haaland.

  56. 56.

    ALurkSupreme

    February 24, 2021 at 11:37 am

    When I moved to Georgia, I was shocked to learn that the state has a one-time ad valorem tax on vehicles.   The tax is 6.6% of the fair market value, which means that if your car is worth $20K, your tax is four figures.   Welcome to the Peach State!

  57. 57.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 24, 2021 at 11:40 am

    Fees like this just keep creeping up, and they’re another trap for the poor

    Try buying, registering, and insuring a motor vehicle. Or a house.

  58. 58.

    taumaturgo

    February 24, 2021 at 11:41 am

    Welcome to the new and enhance poll taxes. Connect the dots. Politicians of both parties rely on donations, mainly from big dark money. They favor low taxes, deregulation, and small government policies which overwhelmingly favor the donors, not the average Joe. Since revenue is needed to fund the basic services for the citizens and in the face of the refusal to ask their donors to pay more taxes, these corrupt politicos dive deep into the pockets of those who have less but it’s not called taxes is called FEES. Similar to the taxes superimposed on healthcare which are not called taxes but, co-pays, out-of-pocket, out-of-network, deductibles, etc, etc. Seems we have a tolerance for being bamboozled.

  59. 59.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 24, 2021 at 11:43 am

    @germy: ​And the fascist movements are afraid of being infiltrated from the outside.
     

    (“Sedition Tracker” ? File this one under ‘be careful what you wish for’)

  60. 60.

    BruceFromOhio

    February 24, 2021 at 11:47 am

    @Patricia Kayden: ​Rachel Maddow did a segment on this last night. When a Democratic Administration tries to advance nominees, suddenly the goal posts have wheels and engines.

  61. 61.

    Roger Moore

    February 24, 2021 at 11:47 am

    @Kristine: ​
     

    Same reason toll roads never stop being toll roads long after the roads are paid for.

    Roads are never paid for. Even when the construction cost is paid off, you still have to maintain them. The idea that we can pay for infrastructure once and then it’s good forever is exactly why our roads are full of potholes, our bridges collapse, our schools are outdated, and our electric grid can’t handle severe storms.

  62. 62.

    Citizen Alan

    February 24, 2021 at 11:48 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Honestly, I don’t begrudge Bernie for being a Socialist who is also a millionaire. Nothing in Socialism requires you to just give away your money to other people. HIs salary is a matter of public record and if you’ve been making $200k a year for 30 years and are *not* a millionaire, then you’re either a spendthrift or have some kind of serious and expensive addiction.

  63. 63.

    chopper

    February 24, 2021 at 11:48 am

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    maybe a nice chianti?

  64. 64.

    Doc Sardonic

    February 24, 2021 at 11:48 am

    If I were President I know how I would handle the honorable Senators From AZ and WV. I would call Schumer and tell him that he needed to communicate to all of the Democratic Senators that a new infrastructure bill was coming up and now is the time to lard it up for their states. After the bill is done and ready pass at 50+VP, I would let it be known that the bill is not what I wanted and since the possibility of an override is nil I would be vetoing it. Once the hubbub subsided I would let Schumer know that the only way to avoid the veto fight is to strip the bill of AZ and WV provisions and let the 2 Senators know personally this is how politics works.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    February 24, 2021 at 11:49 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    That would suck. Tandem was a known risk. I hope Manchin play games with Haaland.

  66. 66.

    catclub

    February 24, 2021 at 11:52 am

    @Subcommandante Yakbreath: And at the risk of sounding contrarian, given the operating costs for pretty much any sort of car these days (insurance, maintenance, fuel), 68 bucks for a license doesn’t seem like it would break the camel’s back; but that’s just me.

     

    Yeah. the passport is 10 years for $110 and the DL is $68 for 8? years.

     

    It would be nice to spread the payments out.  I would also like a pony.

  67. 67.

    Citizen Alan

    February 24, 2021 at 11:56 am

    Topic: IIRC, in 1969, there was a SCOTUS case (can’t remember the name) that was one vote away from declaring the poor and indigent to be a suspect class. Had the vote gone the other way, it would have barred any government fees for essential services to anyone who was unable to afford them. But then, Tricky Dick stole the 1968 election, and our march towards judicial dehumanization of the poor began.

  68. 68.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 24, 2021 at 11:57 am

    @Baud: Haaland has the support of a number of Republicans: Don Young, Tom Cole. It’ll be interesting to see how Murkowski and Johnson vote, if this Politico article is correct:

    But opposing Haaland could come at a cost. Native voters are an often overlooked but surprisingly important swing constituency, less reliably partisan than other racial groups in the United States. They helped determine the outcome of elections in Arizona, Wisconsin and North Carolina in 2020 and may very well help pick the congressional winners in those same states and others in 2022. In lining up against Haaland, Republicans are promising to take down a nominee seen as pathbreaking for her people.
    Some senators from the GOP aren’t thinking twice about it. But for a few, the risk is more immediate. One of those is Williams’ senator, Lisa Murkowski. Particularly if coal-friendly Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia goes against Biden on Haaland’s nomination—he’s still publicly undecided—the moderate Murkowski could be a deciding vote. Politically, she’s in a squeeze: Her state depends on drilling, and she raised nearly three-quarters of a million dollars from the fossil fuel industry in 2020—more than from any other sector. But she also has close ties to Native communities; Alaska has the most voting-age Natives per capita in the country. And to add one more twist, Murkowski is one of only a few members of Congress with familial ties to a tribe. In 2011, she was formally adopted by one of the Tlingit clans in her home state.

    trump and Republicans targeted the Native vote in North Carolina, and in Montana, where one of the largest coal mines is owned by the Crow nation.

  69. 69.

    Brachiator

    February 24, 2021 at 11:57 am

    @SoupCatcher:

    Additionally, getting a convenient appointment can be challenging. My California DL was up for renewal pre-pandemic, and there was the option to “upgrade” to the REAL ID, but the earliest appointment I could get to bring in my paperwork to the DMV was six months away.

    I think that I somehow had an option to renew my CA license/ID by mail. Maybe it was pandemic related.

    And renewals for seniors are either free or cheap.

    I have not done the REAL ID thing yet. There has not been any reason to do so. And I think deadlines have been extended.

  70. 70.

    Leto

    February 24, 2021 at 11:57 am

    @Roger Moore: Then give me back the taxes that I pay for road maintenance if I also have to pay an additional tax on top of it. If you want advocate keeping a toll on those roads, then they need to be of German/Italian quality. Otherwise, it’s double taxation.

  71. 71.

    catclub

    February 24, 2021 at 11:58 am

    @Citizen Alan: in 1969, there was a SCOTUS case (can’t remember the name) that was one vote away from declaring the poor and indigent to be a suspect class.

     

    I guess a suspect class actually means that the Court looks with suspicion on laws that  disfavor the suspect class?

     

    Rather than police looking for suspects.

  72. 72.

    Leto

    February 24, 2021 at 11:58 am

    @Baud: It’s amazing those same concerns weren’t there when he was passing white bro Trumpov nominees. No concerns there. Just with Dems, and with women.

  73. 73.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 24, 2021 at 12:02 pm

    @Leto: Won’t tell you how pissed off I was a couple of years ago driving up to Vermont when I was passed on I-91 by a Tesla sporting a “Who is John Galt” bumper sticker. Sure, take a, what, $7.5k tax credit and buy no gasoline so you’re paying zip for the road you’re driving on? Lose me with the Objectivist bullshit, go build a toll road, asshole.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    February 24, 2021 at 12:04 pm

    @Leto:

    West Virginia voted for a felon over Obama in the 2012 Democratic primary.  I don’t mind giving Manchin a freebie vote if it appeases his voters.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    February 24, 2021 at 12:06 pm

    @Baud: Correction:  I think the felon got 40% of the vote. He didn’t win.

  76. 76.

    Roger Moore

    February 24, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    @Subcommandante Yakbreath: ​
     

    And at the risk of sounding contrarian, given the operating costs for pretty much any sort of car these days (insurance, maintenance, fuel), 68 bucks for a license doesn’t seem like it would break the camel’s back; but that’s just me.

    The problem is that drivers licenses are being used as a form of essential ID for purposes beyond driving a car, so people who are too poor to afford a car are still required to pay a bunch of money to get a license, or in some cases a cheaper but still not free state ID card. Getting the card initially also involves a bunch of other expenses, like getting a notarized copy of your birth certificate and any additional documentation like marriage certificates to prove name changes. We should not be tying essential government functions to an ID we then require people to spend a bunch of money to get. It’s another way of shutting desperately poor people out.

  77. 77.

    Leto

    February 24, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: agreed; we’re going to need new legislation to address our advancing green economy, as well as new *gasp* taxes (fainting couch) to fund this. I’m hoping that we can get a sizeable investment here during Biden’s time. Fingers crossed and all.

  78. 78.

    catclub

    February 24, 2021 at 12:09 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Sure, take a, what, $7.5k tax credit and buy no gasoline so you’re paying zip for the road you’re driving on?

     

    Silly objection, just because he passed you.  Collecting taxes on cars from out of state that use state roads would be … complicated.

     

    What if I only bought gas out of state?

     

    I don’t blame the tesla driver for how road use taxes have not kept up with technology. They should be based on cube of vehicle weight – then bike riders would be happy to pay their fair share.

  79. 79.

    Roger Moore

    February 24, 2021 at 12:13 pm

    @dmsilev: ​
     

    At least on paper, EVs make a huge amount of sense for the PO: well-defined routes, most of which are fairly short, returning to spend the night at central depots which could be kitted out for charging.

    And a ton of stop-and-go driving, which is an area where internal combustion vehicles have terrible efficiency.

  80. 80.

    Almost Retired

    February 24, 2021 at 12:16 pm

    @ALurkSupreme:  Wow, a 6.6% tax on vehicles in Georgia!  This reminds me of a discussion a couple days ago on this blog about how effective red states are in hiding the actual tax burden on their citizens.  Look!  No State Income tax!!!  But my mother in a red state pays twice what I do in property taxes in California, and an assortment of other gotcha assessments on electricity, motor vehicles, etc.  — all of which put her tax burden a lot close to mine, but without so many pesky services.  At least California is honest about it.

  81. 81.

    catclub

    February 24, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    @Almost Retired: Wow, a 6.6% tax on vehicles in Georgia!

     

    There is also probably a 6.6% tax on purchases via Amazon, which was skirted for a while. I bet if you shop in Florida and bring your groceries home there is (legally) a sales tax on those as well. I bet that one is mostly skirted, also.

  82. 82.

    Nora

    February 24, 2021 at 12:25 pm

    @catclub: A suspect class means the governmental regulation adversely affecting them has to be evaluated using strict scrutiny, rather than more lax “is it discriminatory against this group on its face” scrutiny.  What I remember from my law school days (decades ago now) is that the classification pretty much determined whether the rule was constitutional or not. It’s really hard to uphold a discriminatory rule/law when you’re using strict scrutiny.

  83. 83.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 24, 2021 at 12:25 pm

    @catclub: It was an interstate highway. Paid for by, IIRC, 90% Fed funds.

    I don’t mind highway tolls. I drive on the Mass Turnpike and the NYS Thruway often, and they are, in my experience, better-maintained than, say, I-95 or I-91 in CT or VT.

  84. 84.

    Marc

    February 24, 2021 at 12:26 pm

    @Brachiator: I renewed my CA license just about a year ago. As others have mentioned, I had the choice of Real ID which required an in-person visit with a bunch of documents, or online/mail renewal which cost the same amount. An easy choice.  Personally, I’m of the opinion that Real ID will never be required for travel, as it would destroy the US airline industry.  I do keep my passport up to date.

  85. 85.

    trnc

    February 24, 2021 at 12:27 pm

    @Almost Retired: ​
     

    I’ll tell you what, Republicans. I’ll grant you photo ID requirements at the voting booth if you agree to issue free photo IDs, including housecalls with a photographer for the disabled. Deal?

    That system would fail a lot of people and cost a lot of money for something completely unnecessary. Better to not have the photo ID requirement.

  86. 86.

    Roger Moore

    February 24, 2021 at 12:29 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: ​
     
    The potatoes are the kind of colorful detail reporters are encouraged to include. It’s like the way they will always try to include a pet’s name when mentioning someone’s pet.

  87. 87.

    Almost Retired

    February 24, 2021 at 12:30 pm

    @trnc:   Agreed.  My comment was sort of tongue in cheek.

  88. 88.

    Just One More Canuck

    February 24, 2021 at 12:33 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: and what wine goes with that?

  89. 89.

    Chyron HR

    February 24, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    @germy:

    The Republicans apparently hope that people will innocently vote for candidates on the WFP line thinking they are supporting progressive causes unaware that they are voting instead for traditional Republicans.

    Imagine voting for someone you believed to be a progressive candidate but he’s actually a self-styled champion of the downtrodden white man who hates “identity politics”.

    Just imagine.

  90. 90.

    trnc

    February 24, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    @Subcommandante Yakbreath: ​
     

    A question and a comment. Is the $68 license fee annual or multi-year? I just checked and here in PA it’s $30 for 4 years if you’re under 65. Over 65 it’s $20 for 2 years.

    And at the risk of sounding contrarian, given the operating costs for pretty much any sort of car these days (insurance, maintenance, fuel), 68 bucks for a license doesn’t seem like it would break the camel’s back; but that’s just me.

    I was just looking that up. It’s good for 5 years in NY. I don’t think the fee is onerous, but I would like to see a payment plan available for people who are scraping by.

  91. 91.

    JAFD

    February 24, 2021 at 12:36 pm

    Have to renew my New Jersey license by my birthday this year ( turning 71 in July – I’ll be in my prime! ).  Send in form by mail, 4 years for $24.  Don’t know if different for old folks

  92. 92.

    prostratedragon

    February 24, 2021 at 12:43 pm

    @Just One More Canuck:  Sounds a bit heavy for Chianti.  (Amazing how much of that was autospelled.)

  93. 93.

    Doc Sardonic

    February 24, 2021 at 12:45 pm

    @catclub: Only if what you bring home is pre-prepared.

  94. 94.

    Roger Moore

    February 24, 2021 at 12:46 pm

    @Leto: 
    The problem is that right now we aren’t raising enough money to pay for our roads. We keep having to top up our highway trust fund from general revenues because the revenue we’ve dedicated to road maintenance (gas tax, vehicle taxes, road tolls) aren’t enough to cover our costs. This is both because the tax rates keep getting eroded by inflation and because vehicles keep getting more efficient, so gas taxes need to increase in real terms.

  95. 95.

    Ivan X

    February 24, 2021 at 12:49 pm

    When I moved to CA from NY this year, and got a new license, I was surprised that there was no “Enhanced” option like NYS offers, only a Real ID compliant one. I know that only a few states offer the Enhanced ID, but I assumed this was one of them.

    I was also taken aback by how cheap and ugly the CA license card looks and feels in comparison to the NY license.

    Remarkably, they still had me in their system from the last time I had a CA driver license, which was 23 years ago, so I was able to process as a renewal, and that only cost me $35.

  96. 96.

    PJ

    February 24, 2021 at 12:52 pm

    @germy:

     

    @Gin & Tonic: it’s been posted everywhere that Real ID will be required for domestic air travel in the US starting 10/1/21.  I had to get my license renewed late last year, so I opted to pay the extra amount and get the Real ID.  What they don’t tell you is that other federal ID (eg, passport, passport card) can still be used for domestic travel, so it’s really just a revenue generator.

  97. 97.

    PJ

    February 24, 2021 at 1:00 pm

    @trnc:  NY license is for 8 years.

  98. 98.

    A Ghost to Most

    February 24, 2021 at 1:01 pm

    Growing up in WNY, blowing through customs for a quick trip to Canada was a given. My high school hockey team even had regular ice time at 6:00 AM Saturday in St. Catherine’s. Now you need a passport or special license just to sightsee.

  99. 99.

    Ruckus

    February 24, 2021 at 1:17 pm

    @SoupCatcher:

    My CA dl expired 7 months ago and as it is my first renewal after I turned 70, I have to take written and driving tests. They sent a message that they would reschedule when possible, with a temporary operating permit. Then a few months later, a letter, basically, “We will let you know something, when we know something.”

  100. 100.

    Ruckus

    February 24, 2021 at 1:21 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Oh My God, end of life as we know it. How would the nation survive if we didn’t have money sucking assholes making it, what’s that word, better/worse, I can never remember which…..

  101. 101.

    Edmund Dantes

    February 24, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    Manchin has an axe to grind with Tanden for calling out Manchin’s daughter for her her pharma price gouging.

  102. 102.

    J R in WV

    February 24, 2021 at 1:34 pm

    I pretty much despise Joe Manchin on a personal level — but I vote for him every time when the alternative is a Republican — GQP now… Hard to do, but I grit my teeth and click the box for him, every time.

    Sad but true, even Joe Manchin is better than any Republican now-a-days.

  103. 103.

    cckids

    February 24, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    @DCrefugee:It’s even worse if there’s a name change involved, like a when woman wants to renew her driver license after taking the husband’s last name for her previous license and changing back to her maiden name after a divorce. An ex-gf went through hell getting all the docs together to meet FL’s paperwork needs.

    I’ve been married for 35 years; when I had to renew my license in 2018 & upgrade to a Real ID, I had to bring my marriage license, plus birth certificate & other stuff. Finding my marriage license was a giant PITA; I knew we had it, somewhere, but was not expecting that.

    Also, couldn’t find my birth certificate; I’m quite sure the last time I needed it was to get the marriage license. So I spent close to $100 and six weeks later, got a new “original” one. Too much $$. There have been times in my life, not too long ago, when that would have been an impossibly high price tag.

  104. 104.

    PPCLI

    February 24, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    @VOR:  A particularly obvious moment was when Wisconsin (during the Scott Walker regime) passed a voter ID bill. The state Supreme Court said that there needed to be some form of free ID available for those who couldn’t afford the fees for a driver’s license. So part of the bill was to allow people who requested a non-driver’s license photo ID to get one. But Walker ordered the officials in charge of implementing the rule NOT to mention the free ID option. If someone happened to find out that there was a free photo ID option, and asked for one, the officials were to give one. But they weren’t allowed to do anything to make it more likely that someone would know about the option.
    (This is from memory, I may have garbled one or two minor details.)

  105. 105.

    Central Planning

    February 24, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    @trollhattan: But he’s not totally right either. Most of the millionaire+ people don’t make their money on their labor. They make it on stock and investments. There is no FICA on any of that.

    In fact, isn’t that one of the criticisms of CxOs that work for stock and take a $1 salary? They avoid FICA, Medicaid, etc. and sell their stock and pay lower taxes because of short- or long-term capital gains. And companies don’t have to pay into FICA that way too.

  106. 106.

    Subsole

    February 24, 2021 at 2:04 pm

    @Barbara: If those professionals are media professionals, bear in mind unprofessional behavior is actually “driving engagement numbers” or “brand strengthening engagement synergy”, and therefore work.

  107. 107.

    Ivan X

    February 24, 2021 at 2:08 pm

    @PJ: Well, there’s also a convenience factor. Not everyone wants to take their passport (or even passport card) with them to the airport when a driver license will do. But, sure, you don’t need one if you have other documentation.

  108. 108.

    Subsole

    February 24, 2021 at 2:09 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Don’t forget that neither Manchin nor Sinema want to enact voting rights legislation either – which is what their rattlebrain devotion to the filibuster amounts to.

    Because apparently those uppity ingrate blacks can do just fine with one ballot location for 4 million people. Totally equitable.

    Like, I get we’re stuck w/them, but damn. The mask is just falling right off, isn’t it…

  109. 109.

    Quiltingfool

    February 24, 2021 at 2:14 pm

    @Soprano2: I now drive a little further and go to the DMV in the small county seat south of me (about a 30 min drive).  In Missouri you can get DMV stuff done in any county.  Downside – masks are optional…but the clerks are behind plexiglass.  Upside – old people like me are wearing masks!  And service is quick and the clerks are very friendly.  I can understand your husband wanting to take precautions re COVID, though, so your town is better at that.

  110. 110.

    Subsole

    February 24, 2021 at 2:17 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    Both sides

    Both sides

    Both sides

    Both sides

    Both sides

     

    You sure you don’t work for the NYT?

     

    @Chyron HR: I’m afraid my imagination doesn’t stretch that far.

    Now. Time to take a biiiiig sip of MtnDw and read this Jacobin article….

  111. 111.

    Subsole

    February 24, 2021 at 2:19 pm

     

     

    @J R in WV: As one of his constituents, what is his dealio?

    I mean, the generous interpretation is he has picked some…odd hills to kill and die on.

    Justice gangrape, cool.

    “Little mouthy brown chick,” not cool.

    I am struggling to see how this isn’t what it looks like.

  112. 112.

    PJ

    February 24, 2021 at 2:24 pm

    @Ivan X: The convenience is worth it to me.  My driver’s license is always in my wallet, while my passport card is not, nor, obviously, is my passport.  I also have more anxiety about losing my passport because it’s such a hassle to replace.

  113. 113.

    Quiltingfool

    February 24, 2021 at 2:28 pm

    Whenever I drive to Osage Beach, I have seen a Trump banner along the side of the road (I’ve written about this before).  Right after the election, the banner had Trump 2024 on it (acknowledged he LOST); a few weeks after the 1/6 insurrection, the banner was gone (acknowledged Trump went too far, maybe?); today, a new banner was going up – “Do You Miss Me Now -Trump 2024.”  Yeah, buddy, I miss him like I miss explosive diarrhea.  Not.

    The other infuriating thing I saw was a HUGE Confederate flag flying atop a very expensive flagpole – and the base of the pole was enclosed by a tall chain link fence topped with barbed wire.  When I saw that flag, I immediately thought “drone strike needed.”
    I’m an old white woman, and I’m ashamed of all these ignorant white people.  I’m fixing to burn my white people membership card.

  114. 114.

    Kristine

    February 24, 2021 at 2:31 pm

    @Roger Moore: I know our infrastructure is in awful shape. Tolls, at least in Illinois, were instituted to cover the cost of building the roads. After they were paid for, maintenance would be paid for with the gas tax. It hasn’t turned out that way. 

  115. 115.

    Subsole

    February 24, 2021 at 2:31 pm

    @Quiltingfool:

    Don’t do that.

    Burn theirs instead.

  116. 116.

    artem1s

    February 24, 2021 at 2:33 pm

    @taumaturgo: 

    Since revenue is needed to fund the basic services for the citizens and in the face of the refusal to ask their donors to pay more taxes, these corrupt politicos dive deep into the pockets of those who have less but it’s not called taxes is called FEES.

    the working class got bamboozled into believing that flat taxes will solve everything. state’s rights glibertarians who want to pick and choose what they pay for and don’t put the states in a position where they choice is fee based revenue or nothing. So we get states, counties and municipalities with crappy streets and services because they can’t pass a progressive income tax law. Colorado has to have the whole damn state vote on ‘new’ taxes. It’s not just dark money – it’s dumbass small government voters who can’t wrap their heads around the concept that privatizing everything isn’t the answer to lower taxes – when in fact it usually costs more.

  117. 117.

    fancycwabs

    February 24, 2021 at 3:13 pm

    Not saying it’s not a burden when you don’t have the money, but prorated over the length of time a license / passport is good for it’s not too bad, compared to the annual costs of vehicle registration.

  118. 118.

    Miss Bianca

    February 24, 2021 at 3:15 pm

    @taumaturgo: It’s always a beautiful day for bothsiderism in your world, ain’t it?

  119. 119.

    Juju

    February 24, 2021 at 3:29 pm

    The gold star ID/ driver’s license costs more than the extra fee. I had to pay to have a copy of my birth certificate sent from the state in which I was born, to the state where I live because the copy of the same birth certificate that was good enough to register to vote was not good enough for the enhanced driver’s license.  It ended up costing an additional $40. If you have a passport already you can use that for the birth certificate requirement for the gold star license.  Getting the birth certificate was a hassle as well. If you don’t have internet you have to call, which is more difficult than using the internet to get a birth certificate. I did it and I don’t have to do it again.

  120. 120.

    Barbara

    February 24, 2021 at 3:41 pm

    @Subsole: ​ Well, it’s a brave new world but I think we can all agree that selective enforcement of so-called rules of decorum is BS and just a pretext for something else.

  121. 121.

    barbequebob

    February 24, 2021 at 4:18 pm

    @Subcommandante Yakbreath:  Those numbers mean  that the under 65 pay $7.50 per year and the over pay $10.00/year.

    If correct, is the logic that once you get over 65, you don’t want to prepay too far into the future because yours is too uncertain?

  122. 122.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 24, 2021 at 5:08 pm

    @germy: The last time I renewed, the state of Massachusetts actually recommended NOT getting the REAL ID if you have an active passport (which can be used with the regular driver’s license to do all the same stuff)–I think they were trying to manage load on their bureaucracy.

  123. 123.

    Hermann Fegelein

    February 24, 2021 at 5:52 pm

    You should get a NEXUS card. Special lane to cross the border, Global Entry, TSA pre-check.

  124. 124.

    MissBarbie

    February 24, 2021 at 5:58 pm

    @Roger Moore: Ain’t that the truth?!

  125. 125.

    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937

    February 24, 2021 at 7:01 pm

    I live in WNY and this isn’t a concern for the working class people I know. If you want to drive to Canada you get the enhanced license. I don’t know anyone that flies anywhere unless forced to for work. This is a middle class concern which I and others can afford.

  126. 126.

    evodevo

    February 24, 2021 at 7:15 pm

    @germy:  Yes. This. My conservative BIL is US Army retired and my sister worked for the school system. My libertarian nephew-in-law works for the DOD. A RWNJ Facebook acquaintance retired from the PO. I had a healthcare premium discussion with my clueless sister one time where she declared ‘they pay a LOT for healthcare!!11!!” When I investigated, it turned out to be $300/yr LOLOL…when I told her we paid 3000/yr, just for ME, she shut up. But they still don’t see themselves as sucking off the teat. To them, they deserve every perk they get, and everyone else is a “taker”.

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