I know I’m becoming a one-trick pony, but Jesus Christ, look at the expression on this woman’s face:
The latest allegation against Andrew Cuomo comes with a photo, via @NYTimes: https://t.co/OySz5Gc0v7 pic.twitter.com/ZJ3xk5nYeu
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) March 2, 2021
The tl;dr if you don’t want to burn a Times click, is that Cuomo was at a wedding, put his hand on her bare back, and after she removed it, he grabbed her cheeks as pictured above, asking if he could kiss her. Blegh. If the picture isn’t enough, her friend heard him ask for the kiss.
This is what I was talking about in my post yesterday about the delusion of middle-aged men who think that 20-something or early 30-something women (she was 31/32 at the time) have any interest in any kind of relationship except a professional or friendly one. Clearly, this kind of unwanted attention from any man is wrong, but the added creep factor of being an old man makes it just pure yuck. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but those are mostly in books and movies written by middle-aged men.
Update: Forgot to mention, New York’s vaccine rates are not that great. I think the groundwork is there to make them better, but still.
Frank Wilhoit
The Republicans understand that the Democrats must never, under any circumstances, be given a scalp. That is what the whole circle-the-wagons-around-Trump business is, which is otherwise incomprehensible.
We need to understand the same thing.
Cuomo does not exist. No individual politician (candidate, officeholder, appointee) exists. He is not a Republican. That is all that need be known about him, and all that can be known.
jonas
Reminds me of all the Woody Allen movies where he writes himself in as the romantic interest of a woman 30 years younger than him…
Booger
BRB, need to take a long shower in bleach.
Emma from FL
Actually, it was an attitude prevalent in the early romance novels — the young (nurse, nanny, secretary) meets (millionaire, famous artist/author/movie star, oil sheik) with overwhelming personality that after much sturm-und-drang marries her, because,hey, it was virgin or nothing. It was a socio-cultural pattern that lasted at least three decades.
(OOPS) how could I forget aristocrat, often a duke. The playing field of Harlequin was littered with British dukes.
prostratedragon
Thought this was another post about vaccines.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Emma from FL: Some of our best friends are married with pretty good age differences, and the marriages are happy and the age difference doesn’t matter. But it isn’t 61/31 (as pictured), nor are the men the kind who hit on random younger women or co-workers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@prostratedragon: Defense Production Act, baby!
this could double productio
on topic: What are the odds that these three women are the only three?
SiubhanDuinne
Cole Porter FTW!
WaterGirl
Republicans rape women, stay in office. They support insurrection, and everybody who is paying attention knows it. Yet they are still in office.
That is obnoxious and unwanted and totally clueless and arrogant on Cuomo’s part, but Cuomo should not step down. We are in a war for our democracy right now, and we should not unilaterally surrender.
No more double standards.
We can worry about the moral high ground once our democracy is secure again. Until then, our response should be “you first”.
Ella in New Mexico
@WaterGirl:
1000% THIS.
Having experienced similar situations as the one above, I can say there is a world of difference between some old man wanting a big fat kiss under the mistletoe and having Donald Trump slam you up against the wall, try to shove his Mario Mushroom in your vaginal canal and then leave a wad of sperm on your dress. One you laugh about with your friends. The other scars you for life.
Big diff. We need to understand that there is a spectrum to this stuff, and stop equalizing minor or annoying sexism with sexual assault.
That being said I in no way endorse or condone sexual harassment in the workplace, and I am looking forward to NYAG’s investigation on the other accusations. But I’m still not convinced anything that’s been reported rises to the level of needing to resign.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Slim to nonexistent would be my guess.
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Isn’t there some rule about how if it’s one, it might be only one, but if it’s two, then there are many?
PsiFighter37
Not sure how I feel about prospective Gov. Kathy Hochul, who to me has simply been a yes-woman for Cuomo who hails from the not-NYC area to give the ticket geographic diversity. That said, I do hope that whomever does follow in Cuomo’s stead continues to pay attention to bigger-ticket infrastructure items in the state, with less of the individual meddling and pissing matches that Cuomo is so well known for.
That said, this latest one, with the icky visual evidence…sheesh. Time to hang it up, Prince Andrew. But TBH, as others noted on here while I was writing this, I don’t think Cuomo steps down – but I think his reelection chances are on life support, if not dead at this point.
gvg
That photo doesn’t show much to me. The report is actually more significant.
Betty Cracker
@Frank Wilhoit: & @WaterGirl: I don’t think it works that way. One reason I’m a Democrat is because Democrats do hold sexual harassers (and racists, and homophobes, etc.) to account. Yes, it hamstrings us sometimes. Having a moral code does, in life and in organizations. It’s worth it.
rp
@Emma from FL: Three decades? The trope of an older man with a very young woman goes back to the ancient greeks and romans (at least).
Emma from FL
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: So not the point. I am not talking about real people. I am not saying give Cuomo a break. What I am saying is that the cultural pattern until the last three decades of the 20th century reinforced the older, successful man/pretty, feisty younger virgin trope. You should not be surprised that a lot of people, both men and women, bought into them and in some fashion still do.
Emma from FL
@rp: Indeed. But I am talking about American popular culture.
JPL
@WaterGirl: Madison Cawthorn comes to mind, because he endangered the life of several females by taking them for an eighty mile an hour joy ride. He continues to lie and republicans just yawn about it.
Emma from FL
@WaterGirl: Co-signed.
wenchacha
@Ella in New Mexico: He got on my nerves with some of his Covid conferences. I appreciated the effort, and I do think he can do things in a crisis.
But, omg, this is why we don’t want him for POTUS. I want a better Dem. gov for NY, next time around.
Remember the “boyfriend” stuff from the Gov’s talks? Like other pols, you know which ones, Cuomo likes to fancy himself good at standup. Which he is not.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Betty Cracker:
This.
There are a lot of good Democratic male politicians who don’t do this, and tons of women who would be even better.
Also, I don’t think Cuomo is going to resign – that’s not his style. If he did, Lt Gov Kathy Hochul is a perfectly competent replacement.
OzarkHillbilly
@WaterGirl: I’m not sure Cuomo is a NY State hill to die on. This isn’t Ralph Northam in VA after all.
rp
@Emma from FL: Right…my point is that American popular culture reflects patterns that have existed for centuries. Woody Allen didn’t invent the middle aged guy lusting after a teenager trope.
Ultimately, I think we’re saying the same thing.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
We’re number 48! We’re number 48!
New York is at #41. Pikers.
The ranking is by percent of vaccines received that have made it into arms. North Dakota has administered 95% of their 247000 doses, which gets them the #2 spot. PA has administered only 70% of its 3.9 million doses, which gets us the coveted #48 spot.
It’s clear that there’s an infrastructure problem with getting vaccines into arms and I hope that a competent federal government can manage to make inroads against that. But it’s going to take a while yet.
Ohio Mom
I’m with Watergirl and Ella on this.
There is continuum of bad behavior, from obnoxious to criminal, and let’s pay attention to where things fall.
Is it news that Cuomo is an arrogant jerk? The way we know he is, is that he does thoughtless, stupid things. This incident is just another hashmark in that column.
Betty Cracker
@Ella in New Mexico:
This is true, but we also need to factor in the impact of the “minor” and “annoying” sexism on women’s careers. I don’t know enough about the Cuomo situation to know whether this applies, but if it’s true that women resigned their positions or had to be rotated out of his purview because he was harassing them, his gross behavior affected their careers. That’s crosses a line, IMO.
Redshift
@WaterGirl:
I think both this and Frank’s comment ignore differences between the two parties. These Republicans stay in office because they have cultivated (and propagandized) a base to be okay with these things. We haven’t, and shouldn’t.
I don’t support jumping to conclusions, but I’m not convinced that an election after an extended investigation revealing that Cuomo shouldn’t have been in positions of authority months or years ago is better for Democrats staying in power.
And I’m really not convinced that Frank’s (unless I’m misunderstanding) “shut up and put up with any horrific behavior because right now the only thing that matters is Democrats being in office” is an electoral winner either.
PJ
I can’t see Cuomo resigning if it’s just this kind of stuff (which is unacceptable behavior but not enough for public opinion to force him out). And right now, there is no NY politician strong enough to beat him in a primary, though who knows in 18 months. Tish James would be the front-runner if she can get Trump convicted, or even just mount a really strong case, but charges haven’t even been brought yet, so that’s not happening soon. Someone like AOC would be crushed upstate, assuming she had any interest in governing, which she hasn’t voiced yet.
schrodingers_cat
@OzarkHillbilly: BJ consensus was that Northam should step down. There were a few dissenting voices including my own.
As for Cuomo IDK I haven’t decided yet, I am in the data gathering mode. He has been a target of RW attacks about his handling of COVID-19 in nursing homes. I find the timing of these allegations and the recall campaign for Newsom curious
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Ohio Mom: I disagree with WG, Ella and you on this one. Competent Democratic politicians are a dime a dozen in NY, and there’s no reason not to chuck the bad ones, especially in NY. We just aren’t going to elect a Republican to statewide office in the foreseeable future.
Now if this were a story about Joe Manchin, that’s a different kettle of fish, because, even with all of his failings, there’s no D who can replace him in WV.
Another Scott
As I mentioned yesterday, I’m torn. At least until all the old white guys are out of office, and the GOP is insane, we probably have to triangulate.
However, … there’s always a tweet that can make the decision easier:
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: +1
A “hostile work environment” is a thing and it’s incredibly damaging.
Cheers,
Scott.
Almost Retired
Ugh. I’ve handled a fair number of sexual harassment cases in my 30 + labor law career, and the delusional mindset of predatory middle-aged men is mind-boggling. It’s especially egregious in mentorship relationships, which invariably puts the woman in a dignity/safety vs. career dilemma. Even without any touching, these fuckers think their entitled to a little “fun and joking” with the female mentees.
By contrast, I have had three major mentors in my legal career, all of them female (I am male). Not once was any of them ever inappropriate – and what’s more important is that it never occurred to me I would ever have to worry about it. Women can’t say that.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I’m going to tell you something upsetting, so I hope you’re seated and have your smelling salts at hand. The numbers that Cuomo’s office send out on vaccination show 92% of shots in arms. The numbers I linked, which are from the CDC, show ~73%.
I don’t think Cuomo’s numbers are lies, but they’re definitely buffed up a bit.
Betty Cracker
@Almost Retired: I like the way you expressed it: dignity/safety vs. career dilemma. That’s exactly right.
PJ
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: FWIW, beginning this week, there are a lot more appointments available for shots in NYS than there were before. I have to assume some of that is connected with greater supply coming into the state (including the J&J vaccine.)
Soprano2
@WaterGirl: I totally agree, I’m tired of Democrats surrendering at the first hint of trouble. I have no doubt he has been acting this way for decades; all women have had these kind of experiences with older men. It’s bad, but I don’t think he needs to resign before there’s a thorough investigation. Plus, lumping in something you did at a wedding with something you did to an employee is comparing apples and oranges.
Frank Wilhoit
@Betty Cracker: But the house is on fire. Priorities.
randy khan
@Almost Retired:
This is something that always boggles my mind. I’ve been in mentorship relationships with women multiple times in my career and it never once occurred to me to be anything other than professional with them. My job was to make them better at what we did for a living and to help them over the bumps and hurdles of their careers. It’s a position of trust; it’s awful to abuse it.
Omnes Omnibus
I must be behind the times because I remember when everyone seemed to love Cuomo because of his Covid briefings. I mean, hasn’t he always been a brash and arrogant asshole in the style that some seem to find appealing?
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
I think one way to look at it is that if the situations were reversed, and yes the concept is problematic, given actual life, female/male, but if it were reversed how would men think about it, that they felt they had to put up with harassment or even assault to keep their job. They would be pissed. And find out that the only way to fix this would be to remove themselves from any situation that they might find themselves in and find out that just isn’t realistic, you can’t just walk off every job, out of every situation. It is a respect issue and respect has to go both ways. I’m betting that most women do not find that respect easy to find.
Amir Khalid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s still three too many.
OzarkHillbilly
@schrodingers_cat: And IIRC, VA voters, most especially black VA voters, said he shouldn’t step down. From where I sit, they were right. As an outsider, I don’t know NY or it’s politics, and have no idea whether his continued presence in the Govs mansion is a positive or a negative for NY DEMs.
OzarkHillbilly
Is Cuomo water or gasoline?
Flanders Other Neighbor
A couple years back I had to turn in a long-time coworker (another ~50s guy) to HR because a mid-20s coworker confided in me that his behavior was inappropriate as her supervisor. I didn’t think for a moment to cover for the guy and damn right I’d do it again.
schrodingers_cat
@OzarkHillbilly: IDK either but BS supporting Red Rose types have been out for his blood for a long time, so I don’t exactly consider them impartial. As you said it is up to the NY voters to decide.
Ruckus
@JPL:
The entire republican concept of governance is to lie, bullshit, make empty promises, screw over entire counties/populations for $1.95. Think about the start of the Gulf war where they took a pallet load – 5 million to give out to pay people to do what they wanted. In a currency they likely couldn’t use locally. They obviously thought that they could buy a backwards country for nothing and walk away heroes. Like everything else they do and say.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: “everyone” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Counterpoint, e.g. #139 from April 26, 2020 (quoting a NewYorker piece).
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl: When one team is entirely sociopaths and the other isn’t, there’s gonna be asymmeties in battle.
FridayNext
@Emma from FL:
I have a sudden urge to watch The Sound of Music.
zhena gogolia
We are threatened by a violent white-supremacist insurrection the leader of which is alive and kicking in Mar-a-Lago. Let’s focus, people.
MomSense
I’m trying to care, but I just don’t have it in me at this point. Millions of us are dealing with the ongoing pandemic and how it affects our daily lives. Millions of us are struggling with financial ruin, hunger, homelessness, unemployment, depression, isolation.
If New Yorkers are so incensed by this that they have to take action, that’s up to them. I’m tired of hearing about it. Maybe I’m a bad feminist now, but crises are causing a lot of us to triage what we get outraged about. This just isn’t critical stage for me.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t have a fixed opinion about Cuomo, but it occurs to me it’s the same phenomenon that made Greenwld a false liberal darling for a bit: Cuomo focused his assholeness at Trump and that created a lot of enthusiasim during the unprecidented era, like when GG was critical of Bush.
Betty Cracker
@Frank Wilhoit: To extend your analogy, alienating a significant portion of your fire-fighting crew by telling them you don’t prioritize their dignity and safety isn’t gonna help you put out the fire. I recognize there are degrees in offensive behavior, ranging from irritating sexist bullshit to sexual assault. But in your comment at #1, it seemed you were saying that as long as Republicans will protect any abuser, no matter how egregious and grotesque, Dems have to do the same. No. No we don’t. Not even in a fire.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@different-church-lady:
Reminds me of when Michael Avenatti was briefly popular. Same “he’s an asshole, but he’s our asshole” dynamic.
Till it switched over to just “what an asshole”.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: Red-rose types make up, what, 5% of the electorate, but 80% of left-oriented zeitgeist?
WaterGirl
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m not saying we defend his behavior. I’m saying we don’t push for resignation.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m pretty much in agreement with what Steve M says here wrt Cuomo and the Lincoln Project:
https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2021/03/heroes-are-bad-for-you.html
Redshift
@Ruckus: And they have an entire propaganda network reinforcing their lies, and they’ve spent decades selecting for gullibility in their base. There are differences between the two parties other than how how hardball they act, and it does no good to ignore that.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Agreed.
@MomSense: Same here.
Woodrow/asim
The house will always be on fire, so long as we allow it to be. It’s been on fire for decades, it’s just that now, it’s obvious to people who weren’t depending on, say, the Voting Rights Act just to be able to cast a damn vote.
But the lesson of the Civil Rights Era — and I 1000% include the misogynistic/homophobic crap MLK and others pulled that made them susceptible to Hoover’s covert blackmail — is that ethics aren’t things you can drop and pick up when it’s “useful.” It’s the same deal as the post-9/11 “emergency” crap, the Gitmos and TSA and spying on the library, that never goes away without a fight, because it’s “easy” and “we’re at war!”
You don’t suspend the Uniform Code of Military Justice just because you’re at war. Nor do you just let crap like this off with a “naughty boy,” just because the GOP has lost its damn mind.
If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.
PS to be really clear, this is about seeking justice. I’m not invested in if it’s worth debating over social media; public outrage should be a last-resort, and frankly doesn’t sound like it’s needed, right now.
Jay C
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
As far as New York (CIty) is concerned, I can attest (having gotten my first shot yesterday) that the Federal government seems to have little or no part in the vaccination “infrastructure” – outside of providing the vaccine doses, that is. Most of the public efforts here seem to be either NY State efforts, or operations run by the major (corporate) healthcare providers. I got my appointment through our being patients of the Northwell Health system: they were running a huge vaccination clinic in one of their (gratefully not-too-distant) facilities, and had solicited appointments via email (which response only required 53 minutes on hold: worth the wait IMO). The actual process (once they had figured out how to spell my name) was quick and efficient: but in terms of getting large numbers of vaccine doses into New Yorkers’ arms, there’s a lot of work yet to be done.
WaterGirl
@Frank Wilhoit: This!
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: They are loud though and I think 5% may be an overestimate.
danielx
Shocking to discover that South Dakota has its very own Cuomo-grade dipshit, who does indeed appear to be an oily individual who thinks he’s FSM’s gift to women.
Taking spousal unit in for second cataract removal procedure at noon. Since she hasn’t been able to eat since midnight, I WILL be bringing her a sandwich when I pick her up, lest she start snarling and grawing on my arm as soon as she gets in the car.
WaterGirl
@OzarkHillbilly: Neither. He’s a distraction.
We need to keep the House and the Senate in 2022 and make sure everyone is allowed to vote in 2024.
Everyone has surely known that Cuomo has been an arrogant jerk and an asshole and this behavior doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
Timing is everything.
It’s a fire right now because it’s useful to someone for it to happen now. It’s a distraction and it would be a Dem scalp and it would be helpful to the Republican agenda.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: see also: Alan Grayson, Anthony Weiner. Shouty white guy is good, because people mistake performance for effectiveness. There’s another example… can’t quite think of guy’s name….
Another Scott
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Popehat seemed to have his number from the beginning. And he seems to greatly enjoy poking him even now.
I’m not sure I always get where he’s coming from in his reposting stuff from Reason and CATO all the time (is it agreement vs. mocking/scorn), but he’s very good about warning about the dangers of situational ethics/politics. We can and should recognize the dangers while taking practical consequences into account.
Cheers,
Scott.
cain
@OzarkHillbilly:
Just to be clear – there is something about white outrage that causes these things. It’s just an observance from some of us POC. Most of us understand nuance – eg wearing blackface vs pursuing systematic racism. If it’s some shit you did in college because you were an immature dweeb vs who you are today..
I certainly do that all the time – I can recognize the difference.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: the entire Lincoln Project.
Hildebrand
Excusing execrable behavior for ‘our’ team means that we only hold people to account when it is convenient – which make us just as amoral as Republicans. It is pure Machiavellian utilitarianism. We either have standards, or we don’t.
Now, to veer somewhat into Machiavelli’s amoralism, we don’t even lose much by holding Cuomo to account – he isn’t an awesome governor, and the Lt. Gov is a Democrat. Until his Covid press conferences, I would bet most people on this site would have gladly thrown Cuomo overboard for a better Democrat. Of course, we have learned the only thing Cuomo seems to have done relatively well regarding Covid is put on a half-decent daily press conference. If he exits the stage, nobody is going to miss him.
Hopefully, this will have the salutary knock-on effect of getting his brother off CNN.
Redshift
@WaterGirl:
That’s fair. There is another path if the investigation looks bad. People have mentioned Northam and how the calls for resignation turned out to be misguided. But the reason Northam survived and thrived (in addition to being able to credibly claim that the issue was well in the past) was that he did really strong and sincere outreach to the Black caucus and the Black community more generally, and has followed through with action.
So if Cuomo is to get through this in a way that doesn’t damage the Democratic Party, I think it will be “I recognize I’ve done wrong and want to make up for it,” not “it’s not that bad, deal with it.” But I’m not sure he has it in him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Matt McIrvin: true
would that Rick Wilson could back up his “fuck around and find out” swagger
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hildebrand:
and even after. Somebody tried to gin up stories about Cuomo being on Biden’s short list for AG, and I’d bet that somebody’s initials were AC, and very few people bit.
ETA: seems to me by the time his book on Covid came out, most people were back to having at least a moderately skeptical view of him
cain
@WaterGirl: There is always an election for that. Let em finish their term and then just primary them later. I don’t think we need to “OMG!1! He needs to leave right now!”
jonas
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: Right. Let’s be clear: there’s nothing inherently wrong with May-December, or May-October or whatever romances. They happen all the time. And if we were talking about how gross it is for an older woman to think a younger man could possibly find her attractive, well, I don’t need to tell you how that’s a problem. It’s about a frickin’ *governor* mackin’ on younger women who work with or around him. Sexual harassment is about the exploitation of a power differential, not the theoretical attractiveness of either the perpetrator or victim.
Almost Retired
Let’s be clear here with at least to the first two victims, both of whom were employees. While an awkward pass at a stranger at a wedding is disgusting, it’s probably not illegal. Sexual harassment in the workplace is illegal, all the more so when it’s supervisor-on-subordinate. So this isn’t Al Franken posing for tasteless photos on a USO mission. This is a blatant violation of Title VII and New York human rights law. The employment relationship, in my mind, makes it different – in my world (employment law), such perpetrators are usually fired.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I used a Vanity Fair click to read an old article about Cuomo’s marriage to Kerry Kennedy (RFK and Ethel’s daughter). The extended Kennedy clan loathed him because, even thirty years ago, he was an arrogant, humourless, opportunistic bully.
It occurs to me that the allegations from the three women we’ve heard from (so far) relate incidents that all appear to have happened within a few months one way or the other of his breakup with Sandra Lee. Just FWIW at this point.
Baud
If we were Republicans, we’d begin work on a golden statue of Cuomo.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
You know the pandemic is easing when New Yorkers return to their time honored tradition of calling Cuomo a creepy douch.
Geminid
@Redshift: Ralph Northam also had proven his value in the 2018 General Assembly session, when he induced three Republican Senators and ten Delegates to cross the aisle and put Medicaid expansion through. As a moderate State Senator, he had worked closely with Republican Senators Hanger, Vogel, and Wagner, and had their trust and confidence.
By the time the pandemic hit, 400,000 Virginians had been added to the Medicaid rolls.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: My point was really that in a crisis even our side has a tendency to look for a “strong man” who can “fix” everything. Democratic government is messy and inefficient, and that can be worrisome in a crisis.
Cuomo was who he was before, during, and after* the worst of the Covid crisis. He is an entitled asshole. He just happened to do comparatively well during a stressful time.
*Knock on wood that I didn’t jinx us.
WaterGirl
@Almost Retired: I could make up a story right now about Sherrod Brown. Should everyone assume that he should step down based on my story alone? No.
Should he be pressured to step down? No.
What if am a terrible person and I get 5 other women from my “I want to take down democrats” group to also tell stories about him? Should be be pressured to step down then? No.
Should this be investigated? Yes
Cuomo is out of office in Nov 2022.
When I worked for the rape crisis service decades ago, the statistic was that less than 2% of rape accusations are false.
But with politics these days? I think there are plenty of republican operatives who would happily take down Dems with false accusations. And this isn’t rape. These are accusations of sexual harassment.
edit: Just in case someone needs it spelled out. this is purely hypothetical. I am not a terrible person, and I would never make up stories like that. And I totally respect Sherrod Brown.
PsiFighter37
@Hildebrand: I’d still be glad to have him thrown overboard. While he did a very good job in terms of projecting a presence at a time when the federal government abdicated any kind of meaningful responsibility (especially when Donnie was out there saying crazy things at his daily pressers), even in the summer, it was clear that he was still a prick who was more interested in fucking over de Blasio (who kind of deserves it, but we, as residents of NYC, do not) than in sending a clear message. As the details emerge, I am sure what will come out is that Cuomo centralized decision-making, and while what happened was likely what was bound to happen – some things worked out, and others didn’t – he has to take full responsibility because he wanted the decision-making power. There is none of the stupid “I blame de Blasio for anything bad in NYC, while I take credit for anything good in NYC” dynamic that he can hide behind when the retrospectives are sorted out.
That said, I am a bit puzzled by folks saying there are a lot of competent politicians in NY. At least in NYC, there sure are a lot of mediocre ones. The ones who coulda woulda been something (e.g. Eliot Spitzer, Anthony Weiner) tend to be the ones who invariably get in trouble for something.
Steeplejack
Possibly of interest: Freddie deBoer is back, writing at Substack.
dww44
@Ella in New Mexico: Agree 100% with your and Water Girl’s take. As a person of a certain age who spent 30 years in a workplace environment where men were indisputably at the top of the rung, although women were beginning to climb up the ladder, the number of slightly inappropriate remarks and yes, touches, were so common it rendered them unremarkable. It was just a normal part of the workplace environment and did not ever rise to the level of being worthy of causing someone to lose their job.
This is why I had and have such a hard time with how quickly and unequivocally Franken was talked into resigning. Was there a lot more there that we never got to know about? I hope not. With Cuomo, he’s always come across as a bit of dominant a-holish male type, but he seemed to have ethics and empathy in far greater abundance than say, a Donald Trump. So, maybe he should stay in office long enough for the matter to be publicly aired and not go resigning before that happens.
PJ
@Steeplejack: Another reason why the internet was a bad idea.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
One of the bizarre things in my life is how few hot twenty somethings were interested in me when I was twenty something and how many hot twenty somethings are now interested in me now that I am some old fart. Just saying “eww, old man, young women, the creep!” doesn’t cut it because the woman do go for that (after all, it’s not like some old foggie who spends all day watching Jeopardy is going to run down some 20 something at their physical peak…) The issue with Allen and Cuomo is “someone with power over someone else is exploiting that power to force that other person to do something against their will”
PsiFighter37
@Steeplejack: Blast from the past. I remember when he posted here, many moons ago.
germy
I didn’t know Substack made generous financial offers. I thought writers were simply relying on reader subscriptions. Or maybe that’s what he meant?
Also, can’t anyone set up a Substack account and start blogging. It’s like he’s saying “Etsy made me a generous financial offer.”
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@WaterGirl:
Then Republicans respond with, “See? Democrats don’t take sexual harassment seriously when it comes to their own. They’re hypocrites!”
The GOP won’t care one whit about their own hypocrisy (and will suffer zero consequences) and suburban women voters will be turned off Dems because we didn’t do the right thing.
There should be an investigation and depending on the results Cuomo might be able to serve out his term. But if more damning evidence comes out, he’ll have to resign
Baud
@Steeplejack:
I hope that’s true. Otherwise, I’d suspect he’s back just to slam Biden.
Almost Retired
@WaterGirl: Yes, excellent point, and I should have been more explicit. If true, and after investigation (which is how it’s supposed to happen in the employment context). On your other point, people have been whispering a bit about your relationship with Senator Brown….
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic:
That is a very good rule for DUI convictions. Do you know how hard it is to get nabbed for one DUI statistically? Two (really hard)? Three (statistically barely over n=0)?
/S/ one who has represented hundreds of second and third DUI defendants.
Emma from FL
@FridayNext:
lowtechcyclist
@Betty Cracker:
This. We stand for a different set of values than the GQP does, and we should continue to act like we mean it.
No politician is irreplaceable. And if anyone was irreplaceable from a left-of-center POV, it would certainly not be Andrew Cuomo, who’s persistently been a good deal less blue than the state he governs. New York can do better.
Emma from FL
And most chick flicks of the 20th century and a LOT of novels considered classics.
Baud
WaPo
Immanentize
@lowtechcyclist: Agree! It is both a weakness to act morally, but it is also a source of sustaining strength.
Immanentize
@FridayNext: I prefer Thursday Next.
Linky
Immanentize
@different-church-lady: Believe me when I tell you that I read “red nose” instead of “red rose” and I thought “what sly non-cap Rudolph allusion is this?”
Gin & Tonic
@Steeplejack: I am breathless with anticipation.
Or maybe it’s just indigestion.
germy
Same with me. The young women are all after me.
Yesterday I was walking down the street and I passed two 20-something women. I heard one of them say “Ha! Get him!”
JAFD
@danielx: Wishing her best of luck with the operation. Mayhaps you want to get her a pair of polaroid sunglasses as well, I found them very useful when glare got annoying
Tenar Arha
@Betty Cracker: Yep. I agree, I’m a Democrat bc we do try to hold people to account.
I’m at the point in my life where, though I understand that occasionally a political talent is unique, there are few if no indispensable politicians. Sen Tina Smith, I gather, is doing a fine job for her state & the nation. And yet the Governor of Virginia (who I’m lazily not looking up) is also doing a fine job even with his checkered past.
I think the Democratic Party is busy fighting over what’s truly line stepping worth really going to battle against in our party. I also think Cuomo has the terrible handsy manners of an entitled white guy. I think that this is the kind of stuff I had to put up with, but I really don’t want it for the younger generations. Maybe I shouldn’t even be opining on Cuomo at all, bc it’s up to my cousins who live & vote in NY to decide.
But I do know one thing, I think the line in the Democratic Party going forward needs to be crystal clear. I want all the young operatives, lawyers, council members, & state representatives, man or woman, to know that if they sexually harass someone even once, they’re DONE in the Party. No more “promising young person” bull crap for Democrats. I want them all gone. Just like with the anti-bullying codes in school. And I want that that for all my teenaged cousins.
ETA I’d like to believe at some point there’s a way to do the equivalent of repentance, prayer, & good deeds. But right now we need to enforce consequences before those can happen. No excuses & swift consequences for harassment, later we figure out what’s sufficient amends.
Betty Cracker
@Redshift:
Excellent point. It’s been a while, so the details are fuzzy, but IIRC, it wasn’t just white people who were calling for Northam’s head when the news originally broke. He was polling poorly across the board, but he turned things around 1) partly through his actions, 2) because the 2nd in line turned out to have a rape allegation against him, and 3) the 3rd in line was a Republican who also had a “blackface” episode in his youth. Or at least that’s how I remember it.
Ksmiami
@MomSense: this this this. admittedly in my 20s I had lots of bosses and male mentors try stuff but I just dealt with it and gave to Planned Parenthood. Can we defeat the fascists and then tell older men to be more careful. Okthxbai…
Soprano2
@Immanentize: Most of our regular customers are very, very good about getting home safely when they’ve had too much to drink because they’ve had one DUI and have absolutely no desire to do that ever again. It’s a lot more punishing than most people realize, and is one of the few crimes where you’re assumed guilty without a trial. Most of the punishment happens before you ever even get to court.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: No, the 3rd in line – the AG Mark Herring – is a Democrat and a great one. He didn’t equivocate the way Northam did; he owned up to it, said it was wrong, apologized, etc. It damaged him for a while, but people believed him – for good reasons.
Northam is a strange fellow. He was strongly rumored to be considering switching parties at least one point. He’s strongly pro-choice and for the ACA and lots of things like that, but he’s also rather conservative in some policy areas. Herring is much, much more on the traditional liberal Democrat side.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Your memory is mostly correct, except that Attorney General Dick Herring, second in succession, is a Democrat. The Lieutenant Governor is running for Governor this year, but I expect he and other Democrat candidates will be bigfooted by former Governor Terry McAuliffe.
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott: & @Geminid: Thanks for that clarification. Don’t know why I thought he was a Republican!
WaterGirl
@Baud: Laughing out loud. Literally.
WaterGirl
@JAFD: Did you “brightness” issue that you had right after surgery get better? (Hoping I am not confusing you with someone else.)
WaterGirl
@Ksmiami:
This.
JKC
Watch for Elise Stefanik (R-seditionist) from NY-21. She’s egotistical enough to convince herself that she should run for governor, but not smart enough to realize that in any part of the state where people actually outnumber deer or dairy cows that she’s somewhat less likable than a case of genital herpes.
Geminid
@Another Scott: Northam also has a strong record on gun safety. That and his strong pro-choice record stood him in good stead in his 2017 primary, when groups like NARAL and Bloomberg’s Everytown USA spent a lot of money on pro-Northam.
Northam’s primary opponent tried to run to his left, but during his term as a congressman from the relatively conservative 5th district, he was kind of a light-blue dog, and had a couple of bad votes in these two areas that Northam’s proponents used against him to good effect.
Geminid
@JKC: Stefanik is also threatened by redistricting. New York will lose a Congressional seat in reapportionment, maybe two. Democrats in Albany will try to make Republicans take the loss, and Stefanik is a prime target for gerrymandering. Running for governor and losing might seem a better option than losing at a lower level.
J R in WV
@rp:
No, Woody Allen invented the “marry your formerly adopted daughter while breaking breaking up with her adoptive mother” trope.
Gahhh, disgusting on so many levels.
Nicole
I’m not torn up if Cuomo resigns, because it means NYS gets the first woman governor in its history. I think he’s going to try to ride it out as long as he can, ideally to the end of his term, but I’m not shedding tears if he goes.
We need more women in government. There are creepy women, too, but nowhere near the amount of creepy men. And it seems like a lot of barriers get broken not due to the general public electing women, but because a woman gets put into the position formerly held only by a man, due to death, or scandal, or in Biden’s case, making a very good choice to improve his own electability prospects. Women break these barriers by being appointed to them by a (usually white) man, and then the public realizes the sky doesn’t fall if a woman is in the job. And then they’re more willing to actually vote for a woman to do the job.
So, I don’t actually see any downside to Cuomo resigning. Would still be a Democrat in the office, and the NYS GOP is such a mess I don’t see them doing well in their next run for the governorship, although I think their chances will be better if Cuomo is still there.
J R in WV
@zhena gogolia:
This is true, what you say about the orange pimple in Mar-a-Lago, but I don’t think he will be able to walk and talk in 4 years, much less campaign successfully. Hoping anyways.
Shalimar
@schrodingers_cat: I remember BJ concensus on Northam being the opposite, especially after Fairfax’s charges came out. It became very obvious these were coordinated Republican ratfuckings designed to take back power for the next decade, and most people here were against that.
Brachiator
@J R in WV:
It’s not just about Trump. The Republican Party is becoming openly a white supremacist party. They believe that the only way to preserve the America of their dreams is to stifle nonwhite citizens.
JaneE
I am in my 70’s and I would estimate that most of the women my age have had at least one of these experiences. Some weddings are more well lubricated and raunchier than others, and kissing the bride was a thing in my day, so lots of dirty old men got at least one just because it was expected, sort of. If you were lucky it didn’t happen at work with someone in a position of authority, but that was fairly common too. Our department secretary was 26 and beautiful, and there was some white haired or bald executive down to ask her to type something for them (as if they didn’t have their own lovely executive secretaries) several times a week, because because. Back then it was just the way it was, and HR policies against sexual harassment were yet to be written, or even thought of.
That was then, and this is now. I am more concerned about what happened when there were not other people and photos being taken. That said, the GOP had no problem putting a probable blackout-drunk possible rapist on the Supreme Court. Big difference in that. IMO Cuomo should serve out his term, be appropriately contrite, and forget about running for anything in the foreseeable future.
Shalimar
My opinion of Cuomo is that he’s an effective politician and administrator, but he uses that for himself rather than Democratic priorities. New York would be better off with anyone else.
As to the sexual harassment arguments, there are valid points for and against resignation and I’m not really sure how I balance them. What he is accused of is bad and should have repercussions, but I don’t know that they should reach the level of ending his career.
WaterGirl
@Nicole: The downside is that the Rs learn that they can get rid of Democratic politicians very easily with this stuff, and don’t think they won’t use it more and more because of the previous success.
JKC
@Geminid: Excellent point. Much of her behavior is easily explained by her looking for a golden parachute out of NY-21.
gvg
@Omnes Omnibus:
We bashed him for various things even while we supported his briefings. He has always been a mixed bag and this blog has always known it. His conferences involved him saying things like staying home is better than dying…..which some people really had trouble grasping.
J R in WV
@JAFD:
@danielx:
My wife had her second eye repaired last week, and they provided really nice plastic wrap-around sun glasses. Also asked me to remain in the parking lot in case they needed me.
Also as we got her into the car, the nurse told me to get her a big sandwich on the way to the surgeon’s office for a post-op safety check. So we split a Steak Escape beef sub in the Dr’s parking lot before we went in for her check. Was our 4th “dinner out” since the trump plague hit.
Two Thai Chow meals, on in the car and one at an outdoor picnic table way away from everyone last summer, and two steak subs, one for each eye surgery episode.
She’s pretty pleased with her distance vision which is what she opted for, and I’m going to pick up a couple of pairs of reader glasses on my re-supply trip into town tomorrow. Best of luck to your spouse!
Nicole
@WaterGirl: Well, then I guess Democratic elected officials will have to learn to keep their hands to themselves. As the attempts to paint Biden as a predator showed, there has to be some actual there there for a Dem to get ditched.
Yes, it sucks that the GOP doesn’t give two whits about what their guys do because they don’t view women as people, but that’s one of the many reasons I don’t vote GOP. And younger women have a lower tolerance for this behavior than my Generation X did (good on you, Gen Z! Keep it up!).
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
Here is an article in Medium Lindsey Boylan, one of the people who says she was harassed at work, by Gov Cuomo, a pattern over along period of time: My story of Working with Gov Cuomo
“Seeing his name floated as a potential candidate for U.S. Attorney General — the highest law enforcement official in the land — set me off. In a few tweets, I told the world what a few close friends, family members and my therapist had known for years: Andrew Cuomo abused his power as Governor to sexually harass me, just as he had done with so many other women.
” After my tweets about the Governor in December, two women reached out to me with their own experiences. One described how she lived in constant fear, scared of what would happen to her if she rejected the Governor’s advances. The other said she was instructed by the Governor to warn staff members who upset him that their jobs could be at risk. Both told me they are too afraid to speak out.”
I find this disturbing and I find the idea of turning a blind eye to it disturbing as well. This is not about older man/younger woman. It’s about someone in power using that power unethically, I could give a crap if that person is old and wrinkly of young and handsome, it’s an distrusting abuse of power.
Subsole
@Baud: Bold of you to assume there’s any difference.
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
Yes, exactly~!!~
They are fascists to their core, racists combined with all the other baggage associated with being fascists. Antisemitic and misogynist as well. Yet somehow they can also draw in conservative Jews and so many women, while being despicable towards both groups.
But we need to fight the fascists, all of them, no matter who becomes dur Führer once Trump passes the tiki torch.
Geminid
@Shalimar: The picture apparently showing Northam in blackface was the product of research by a “prolife” group angered by Northam’s statements on 3rd trimester abortions, and medical treatment of babies delivered to term whose terrible birth defects made them unviable. These activists dug up the medical school yearbook picture in question.
The accusations against Lieutenant Governor Fairfax were brought by two different women angered that the man who they asserted had sexually assaulted them might advance to the office of Governor. They don’t seem to have been motivated by partisan politics. Fairfax vehemently denied the claims, even sued ABC for defamation. His run for Governor seems motivated by an urge to “clear” his name. I don’t think he really believed he could win the June primary, even before McAuliffe stepped into the contest.
J R in WV
@Geminid:
Yeah, so “prolife” those people are, also too — Not!
FridayNext
@Immanentize: But Friday had that mix of adolescent angst and SpecOps 12 Bond-like smug mysteriousness I find so inspirational.
lofgren
Somebody copy and pasted the tl;dr from this page to another blog without the picture, and I totally thought he grabbed the other cheeks.
Honestly, I don’t know which is worse. I feel like I’d rather have somebody grab my ass unwelcomed than my face, if I have to choose.
Another Scott
@Geminid: To be clear, the picture on Northam’s 1984 yearbook page is from the yearbook – nobody disputes that. He admitted he was in the picture, but claimed he didn’t remember if he was the taller guy in blackface, or the shorter guy in the Klan robe.
Richmond.com
His quote [in the yearbook] makes him sound like Kavanaugh. :-/
I’m glad that he grew out of it, and he’s been a good governor. But it reflects badly on him, and his equivocation wasn’t good.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Nicole:
I am for all men everywhere learning to keep their hands to themselves.
The Fat White Duchess
@Betty Cracker: Co-signed.
(and also #27)
planetjanet
@WaterGirl:
Amen, WaterGirl. Said so much better than I could. Cuomo has lost credibility on women’s issues, so others will have to step up in that arena. But he can focus on other areas where he actually has real capabilities. Let there be an impartial and transparent investigation. Then we see where we are.
The Fat White Duchess
OK, having read through up to now… I still want to add a couple of things, because I read the NYT article (plus about 200 of the comments) when it came out yesterday, and to my mind these make a difference:
1. “An awkward pass” is., IMO, verbal. In this case, he put his hand on her back, and she hadto physically remove it. Then, after a comment or two, he grabbed her face and kissed her.
2. The comment, after she physically removed his hand, was that this was “aggressive” of her. If that’s an accurate recollection… surely I’m not alone in thinking it says something additional about how safe women can feel around him? No, Cuomo is not *45, and so far as I know Cuomo isn’t a rapist. But the attitude isn’t very different.
I’m additionally distressed by the NYT comments, which were running about 95% of the women saying “omg look at her expression,” and about 90% of the men saying “big deal,a little flirting at a weddng.” With at least two of the latter adding a fillip of “you’ll drive all the men into the Republican party with this.” Feh.
Geminid
@Another Scott: Your assertion of clarity in the matter of Northam’s blackface picture is not well founded. I read the richmond.com article you cited that reported on Northam’s February 7 2018 news conference when he apologized for the picture in the yearbook. But I think you know that the next day Northam retracted his admission that he was in that picture. This affair and the resulting investigations are reported in detail by the Washington Post (May 26, 2019), the NYT (May 22, 2019).
The source you cited, richmond.com, stated in a December 27, 2019 article that “the context within which the photo was taken, how it wound up on Northam’s page and who is pictured is uncertain.”
Another Scott
@Geminid: Neither one of us was there, but I remember the reporting pretty well.
From the Richmond.com story linked above:
We all know he changed his story the next day. Which one is correct? Neither you nor I know. But we know what he said on the two occasions.
It’s all water under the bridge now.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ben Cisco
@WaterGirl: Obligatory.
Geminid
@Another Scott: This exchange reminds me a wealthy Democratic couple who live in Albemarle County, west of Charlottesville. In 2017, one gave the Perriello campaign $100,000, and the other gave Northam’s $100,000. But their partnership remains intact, as does that of the liberal and moderate wings of the Virginia Democratic party.
But have you checked out last month’s Wason Center poll of registered Virginia voters? These polls try to gauge public sentiment regarding General Assembly issues or political races. But I like to read the demographic data. The ideological self-identification numbers are interesting, and may shed light on why Northam won his primary. They also show why Senators Kaine and Warner have good approval among Democrats and Virginians in general, despite getting “F” ratings from ultra-liberal Progressive Punch, and similar ratings from conservative outfits.
Tehanu
@WaterGirl:
and
@Ella in New Mexico:
Totally agree with you both.
No One You Know
@WaterGirl:
Wow.
As a rape survivor, I feel shaken. I didn’t read that as hyperbole.
What other crimes should we ignore?