Why is it everywhere I turn, people are concerned about wearing masks outdoors and vaccine hesitancy? Neither of these are important right now.
The latest outdoor mask nontroversy is driven by an article in the Atlantic titled “The Liberals Who Can’t Quick Lockdown,” the premise of which is that liberals who say “trust the science” are hurting the vaccine rollout by being too cautious about ending COVID restrictions.
I think events have overtaken that article, at least in liberal New York, where we’re opening up quite a bit next week. In fact, the history of this pandemic is rife with premature re-openings. Still, for outdoor masking specifically, and individual caution in general, who cares? If, after months of bullshit from the Trump Administration’s overlords who censored the CDC, people still want to wear a fucking mask outdoors even though the CDC says it’s not necessary, what’s the harm? I tend to chinstrap when I’m out and put my mask on if I’m passing someone else who has a mask on. Why? Common fucking courtesy.
This morning, a reporter-turned-county-legislator in Rochester posted her concerns about vaccine hesitancy, based on conversations with some of her constituents who are hesitant. She’s nominally a Democrat but always willing to raise “concerns” (if you live in Rochester, you know who I mean).
I responded to her by pointing out that our county is at ~51% of eligible folks getting first shots, while the latest HHS survey shows that at least 70% of eligible folks want to get a shot. Right now, hesitancy is not stopping ~20% of our county from getting shots. It’s access (lack of a car, lack of internet, etc.), and maybe fear of being off work for a couple of days (total) due to reactions, when a lot of jobs don’t have sick leave. Maybe we can concentrate on that. By the time we’re at 70% first shots, Pfizer will probably be approved for 12 years old and up, and we’ll have a bunch of very eager young recipients who can get a shot while the hesitant risk death.
Both mask policing and concentrating on hesitation is just letting a bunch of whiners and complainers take focus from the vast majority of us who tried our best to save our lives and those of our neighbors. Because COVID-denying Republicans run our discourse, the good acts of the responsible majority must be questioned at every turn to justify the shitty behavior of a loud and irresponsible minority.
How much silver is on the table?
GregMulka
My firstborn is eagerly awaiting the clearance for the first jab.
Tom Levenson
I have thoughts about that Atlantic piece; it’s craptastically bad journalism as well as being dumb on its face. I hope to write up those thoughts this weekend.
But yeah; the media has not learned anything in the last decade, and is congratulating itself for that fact.
2022 is shaping up as (yet another) existential election. Either we beat back the GQP or we kiss US democracy good by. I wish I could persuade myself I was hyperventilating.
Baud
I agree. Restrictions hurt business, which is a legitimate concern. But now people are blaming decent people for vaccine hesitancy. It’s an iteration of the idea that only Dems have agency. It is, of course, bull shit.
Jerzy Russian
My wife and I are done with our two doses. Next up is the kid, who is afraid of needles. We will look for a Johnson&Johnson dose, and fortunately there seem to be plenty of them around here.
MisterForkbeard
@GregMulka: My kids are young – I think they can’t get the jab until September. Booooooo.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It occured to today that Dorkwisphering these Conservatards; what they are upset about is, the vaccine makes one immune (mostly) to virus, but doesn’t mean the vaccinated can’t carry it. So that means unless the Anti-Vaccers get the vaccine, it’s just matter of time before they get Covid and that’s not fair to them. The Anti-Vaccers want the normal herd immunity were everyone else takes the risk, gets the antibodies and blocks the spread of the virus while they sit on their asses and shit talk. The whole anti-vac game has doesn’t work now.
Baud
Older people tend to be more Republican and conservative. Yet their vaccination numbers are much higher than the national average. I don’t have any reason to think that the national average won’t eventually get to at least that level as access improves.
dmsilev
Since the approval is likely to happen sometime in the next few days, this seems like a very safe bet. I mean, I’m sure there are a few local areas pushing towards 70% now, but they’re very much the exception.
JPL
@GregMulka: Suddenly I’m hearing about teens anxiously awaiting the needle. We live in upside times.
bbleh
Common fucking courtesy.
A trait noticeably — and in many cases proudly — lacking in modern Republicans.
Ejoiner
@Tom Levenson: yeah…for better or worse that’s my take on the election cycles running through the forseable future. Until the GOP implodes and goes down in flames we are under constant threat.
laura
The concept of a risk continuum is not rocket surgery! It’s a simple sliding scale. I’m carrying a mask on a walk to minimize risk of an encounter where you don’t presume the status of the other/s AND because I do not want to give any impression that I’m That Anti-Vax Asshole. I’m wearing a mask indoors when out of my own house because the risk is higher, and I’m double masking in indoor or outdoor crowded settings when the risk factors warrant it.
I had strong ocean breezes on my naked face on Monday and it was glorious – highly recommend.
zzyzx
@dmsilev: my county (where Seattle is) is at 67% right now.
JPL
@Tom Levenson: I’m afraid you’re correct. Sometimes I drift off and think that it won’t be so bad, if we cooperate, and protect our own. Then I wake up, and realize that’s all bullshit. Mussolini was quite popular in the twenties and thirties. just sayin
wmd
FWIW, I was told to use federal COVID sick leave if I had vaccine related symptoms that kept me from working… might there be a messaging problem about this program?
E.
I’m so sick of it all. In my community anyone who wants the vaccine got it three weeks ago. (Small, isolated valley in way way N. Cal). I’m ready to let the chickens come home to roost for everyone else. Fuck it, I’m done getting attacked, mocked, assaulted, ridiculed, laughed at, and shunned for trying to save their lives. Which, P.S., all of those things have happened to me, most of them after Tucker Carlson told his people to go on the offensive.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Why does anyone think herd immunity going to change things? The whole pre pandemic economy was based on thousands people having to crowd into offices so the CEO could walk in at 10:00am and see a body in every seat. Now that everyone seen there are lots of jobs that can be done at home that’s not coming back. I’ve been noticing now the Bay Area is Yellow that the malls are crowded but the commute is nothing like it was before.
The Atlantic article is ripe with irony because the publishing industry has been work at home since the 90s. It’s just in 2020 the rest of the economy caught up to the technology.
dmsilev
@zzyzx: 67% of adults, or of the whole population?
Matt McIrvin
The buzz going around is that Pfizer for 12-15 year olds will be approved much sooner than that–maybe as soon as next Monday or Tuesday.
I think that, given the number of times we’ve all heard authorities declare victory and reopen businesses on a rigid timetable even as cases increase again, we’re all entitled to some excess wariness.
Brachiator
I hate stupid shit like this. It’s a worldwide pandemic. And guess what? They have issues in other countries and it is not just about “American liberals” ignoring the science.
On another level, I had asked whether the author of this article was a scientist or just another ass wipe with an agenda and an axe to grind.
I tire of conservatives (and a few others) who pretend that the are respecting the science while pulling an ideological rabbit out of their hat. It is stupid, tiresome and a waste of time.
Baud
@Baud:
The other thing driving these stories is that media is salivating over the idea of reporting on how Biden failed because he couldn’t convince GOP base voters to take the vaccine.
zzyzx
@dmsilev: whole population.
Although that’s only received one shot, not fully vaccinated, but still.
https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination.aspx
JoyceH
I still wear a mask in public, though vaccinated, because I haven’t yet seen a definitive answer as to whether the vaccinated can still infect others. First they told us that those who were vaccinated would definitely not get severely ill, but there was uncertainty as to whether we could get infected and pass on the virus to others. Then we were told that the vaccinated PROBABLY couldn’t get infected and thus couldn’t infect others. But I haven’t seen any reputable scientific report saying that it has been shown definitely that the vaccinated cannot get infected and infect others. Did I miss something or is that still the state of scientific knowledge on the topic?
As for the anti-vaxxers, not the hesitant but the downright opposed, they seem to be going in the opposite direction. Now it seems like they’re not only not going to get vaccinated themselves, they’re going to shun those who are. All sorts of wild talk about pregnant women miscarrying after being in contact with a vaccinated person? It’s downright lunacy.
germy
@E.:
I’ve been mocked and ridiculed for wearing a mask, but it sounds like your experiences have been more extreme.
(Once I was shouted at by a guy in a passing truck, and another time a guy walking past me made a sarcastic comment.)
Starfish
@Baud: Older people have not spent their adult lives questioning why government exists at all and arguing like they are smarter than their medical professionals. They seem to have more confidence in institutions than those of us who have lived in the time of institutions being broken and burning. They have also had access for a longer period than most folks.
germy
Ken
I expect in a few more months, we’ll be hearing RW conspiracies asking why COVID is only affecting rural and conservative areas, and how come you never hear about outbreaks in cities. After all, we already had people asking why so many Republicans were getting it, when almost no Democrats were.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Speaking of crazy world views I saw my first recall election commercial. My god was that strange. Some Republican old dude who looked like Elmer Fud; short,bald, white haired and pudgy, describing himself as “The Beast” to Newsomes “Beauty” and rambling on about how California has fallen off a cliff. Elder’s second childhood dementia is what came to mind.
bluefoot
Of the people I know who haven’t yet been vaccinated (CA, OH, NY, MA), the problem isn’t desire, it’s access. Except in one case where they medically can’t get vaccinated.
The access issues are multifold: Up until the last week or so, it’s been difficult to get an appointment unless one has a job that allows internet surfing during the day. I know people without smartphones or printers at home to have the required appointment confirmation with them. Some lack ready access to transportation. Or childcare – every mass vaccination site is explicit in saying you have to come alone to your vax appointment. So what is a single parent supposed to do? Get arrested for leaving their children while getting vaccinated? I know at least two people who can’t take a couple of days off work if they have a reaction to the vaccine, otherwise they’ll get fired.
Now that walk-up sites are opening up, I am hopeful most of these people will be able to get vaccinated soon.
It’s all a long way of saying that the discourse around so-called hesitancy has been pissing me off. And as more people get the vaccine, it will motivate more people to get it.
Regarding that article: I’m a scientist. There is a lot of data out there that shows that people on immune suppressant or immune modulating medication mount less of an immune response to vaccines in general. Why the hell wouldn’t I continue to mask until COVID prevalence rates are way down to help those people? Every drug for rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, multiple sclerosis, etc is an immunomodulator. That is a lot of people who might not have a robust response to vaccine. Of course I will not be a sociopath and continue to behave in a way that will minimize risk for people around me.
VeniceRiley
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I don’t expect to see pre-pandemic traffic until school & uni starts in fall.
In OC we are still orange but looking positive for yellow very soon.
Hospitalizations are under 3 digits. Positivity rate down from 2.8 to 2.3.
I’m done with the vax hesitant attention too. Don’t want it? Fine. Thanks for going on the record. Biden should send your doses to Mexico and Canada..
Urza
@JoyceH: There have definitely been edge cases where the fully vaccinated did get sick, with symptoms. Though the symptoms were light. Thus, a vaccinated person could spread the disease.
Baud
@Starfish: I’ve seen no evidence that older people are more sane than younger people.
That’s my point. We still have a ways to go before we reach the intractable portion of the population.
Betty Cracker
The impulse to “both sides” every goddamn issue is apparently irresistible. So, after months of Republican crybabies whining about restrictions, pretending to be smothered by a lightweight piece of fabric and furrrrriously stamping their widdle feet about their “liberties,” even the liberal Atlantic had to manufacture “balance” in the form of that dumb article.
different-church-lady
a) These are hot-button conflict points.
b) Social media is addicted to conflict.
c) News media has has assimilated the social media model, so they’re going to find conflict points to push forward, even if the conflict is minor.
I you polled 10,000 people, and 9,998 of them agreed with each other, the news would do endless features on the two who were fighting.
Roger Moore
There’s a huge difference between personally being more conservative than the most recent CDC recommendations and being slow about ending COVID restrictions. One is a personal choice, and the other is a public one.
Starfish
@Baud: Yup. And also creating a “both sides” stories with all the anti-masker lunacy.
dmsilev
@zzyzx: That’s pretty damn impressive. My local urb is at around 62% of total population having at least one shot, but county-wide the number is a bit under 50%.
JoyceH
We need to start a movement that mask wearing is okay. You don’t know why that person is wearing a mask. Maybe they have a cold and they don’t want to give it to you. Maybe they have allergies and they’re blocking out pollen. Leave them alone, they’re not hurting you!
WaterGirl
@Ken:
“There are none so blind as those who will not see.”
smith
One thing I have not seen discussed is the fact that a few weeks ago the number of people seeking their first shots dropped off a cliff. This was at the same time the use of J&J vaccine was paused, and I can’t see that it was a coincidence. There may have been a negative halo effect for people who were somewhat hesitant before to increase their distrust of all the vaccines, not just J&J. Unfortunately, this also created an opening for malign actors like Tucker Carlson to ramp up the misinformation about vaccine risks. I don’t think the effect is necessarily permanent, but I do think there are people who were originally mushy on vaccine acceptance who now need more and more frequent assurance that the vaccines are safe.
Starfish
@bluefoot: My younger sister is currently in her first chemotherapy appointment after having major invasive surgery that has left her with numerous problems. Her chemotherapist told her to go get vaccinated but wait a week after chemotherapy.
My tolerance for people who like to believe that they are the unique and exceptional case that does not need to go get vaccinated is a little lower than usual.
sdhays
@Matt McIrvin: This is the thing about the goddamn reopenings. Every damn time has been too soon, so why would we believe that they’re not overeager THIS time? I don’t understand why we’re getting “all clears” in some cases with the case count in this country still in the tens of thousands. We’re still seeing in the upper triple digits in deaths, and the trajectory is good, but not nearly rapid enough to be considered “out of the woods”.
Once my wife and I have our second shots +14 days (early/mid-June), I’ll most likely be comfortable not wearing a mask outside. I’m wearing a mask inside for the foreseeable future. And I’m not going to be eating indoors or going back to malls until case counts are in the single digits and/or my toddler is fully vaccinated.
germy
https://dailygazette.com/2021/05/04/contested-school-board-races-across-capital-region-offer-voters-choice/
School board elections are important. Important that these people are nipped in the bud.
different-church-lady
No matter when we reopen any given thing, some people are going to scream it’s too early and others are going to scream we should have done it sooner.
Roger Moore
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
The Bay area isn’t yellow; only San Francisco is. The rest of the Bay is still orange or even red. And the Bay Area is also not the best area to judge how well remote work is likely to stick in the long term. Its economy is much more heavily dependent on the kinds of jobs that can be done remotely than most of the rest of the country. Here in LA County, which is now in yellow tier, traffic is almost as bad as ever.
Starfish
@germy: The Republican on our school board pulled this crap at the meeting last week. They said that she had not put it on the agenda so it would not be considered. She also had like 19 members of the public speaking at the public speaking section to show support for her nonsense.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Add “writing from the security in their fortress of solitude” that what is the utter BS about that Atlantic writer; she works at home, she was working at home threw the entire pandemic and will continue to work at home so even if there is an India style third wave, she will be safe and doubtless shit talking about why Starburcks is closed because all the workers are cowards and won’t show up after a few of them died.
narya
I had to go pack my office today (so they can move me . . . 9th “seat” in 9 years, not counting my living room for the past year), which also meant public transit. I double-masked, and didn’t take them off until I was back home–and my coworkers are all vaxxed, too. But there were workers around (we’re not yet done with the construction I think), and everyone just . . . wears a mask. I don’t actually have to work in the office yet–I have to go in to unpack next week–and I am fine with that. It was definitely weird to see so many people FTF; I haven’t been anywhere except the grocery store, wine store, and, three times, a local brewery whose practices I trust. But my point: everyone around me was masked, too, except one person on the el. It’s such a small thing to do, and it adds a layer of protection on top of the vaccine. Comfortable? not so much. But, again, such a small thing. I’ve been wearing my mask around my neck on morning runs, but will pull it up for others.
JaySinWA
@zzyzx: The heading on the link indicates it is for the population 16 and older. Not the entire population.
So only the eligible population for King County WA.
mrmoshpotato
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I’m sorry California has to deal with this stupid recall bullshit. I’m sure the ads are stupider than the regular political ads around elections.
VeniceRiley
@germy: I want to pile dead bodies on Ben Riehlman’s lawn.
germy
@Starfish:
It’s like Invasion of the Body Snatchers with these republicans. Most of them appear normal at first, and then…
Baud
Looking forward to the GOP becoming pro-mosquito.
Maybe we can genetically modify mosquitoes to carry the vaccine.
different-church-lady
@Baud: What could go wrong?
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Nothing.
germy
@Baud:
Citizen Alan
@Tom Levenson:
I have absolutely no thoughts worth sharing about the fucking Atlantic. Ta-Nehisi Coates was the only decent thing to grace that rag in the last 20 years, and he left while the getting was good.
different-church-lady
@Baud: Or everything.
I mean, have these people never seen a Porky Pig cartoon?
Brachiator
@Baud:
If this is how the media see it, it is a spectacularly dumb take.
The virus don’t care, so..
Republican president opens things up and says people don’t have to get no stinking vaccinations. We get a surge in the disease.
President Biden fails to convince enough people to get the shot. We get a surge in the disease.
Where is the victory for anyone in this?
Conservatives love Israel, so here is some comparative data from a Guardian story.
You can lock shit down or maybe combine that with masks. Either way, you need to get people vaccinated. Later, we may be able to compare the UK with Israel because of some similarities in the virus strains in th countries. Either way, I am not seeing any “liberal” vs “conservative” issues here.
mrmoshpotato
@Betty Cracker:
Speaking of impulses and both siderist bullshit, I have an impulse to launch Upchuck Todd into the Sun.
azlib
I always thought after reading what the epidemeologists had so say, that wearing a mask outdoors was probably unnecessary as long as you were not in a crowd. I ride a bike nearly everyday on uncrowded bike paths and never wore a mask. But if folks want to be extra cautious what is the big deal.
I do wear one indoors even though I am fully vaccinated and may continue the practice after the pandemic is over, since mask wearing and distancing seem to help a lot against catching the flu or even the common cold. Also, we do not know definitively whether vaccinated people can still pass the virus along to others. It just seems like common courtesy to me at this point in time.
realbtl
@mrmoshpotato: The Beast (R) went full Cal worthington for his opening.
You should never go full Cal.
Now he’s pissed about his dog spot getting all the attention.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
The mallard chicks have hatched!!!
Here is Emma Newman’s video on Operation Mallard 2.
bluefoot
@Starfish:
The person I know who can’t get vaccinated was told by her team of doctors not to get vaccinated. At least not yet.
Cheryl Rofer
I just ordered three embroidered masks from different Mexican provinces and am looking forward to getting them in the mail in the next few days.
I have a variety of styles and colors – multicolor tropical leaves, purple-range palm leaves, black with white flowers and cats, blue stripes, rainbow stripes, and yellow with dragonflies and bees. I wear them to complement my outfit or to make a statement.
Betty Cracker
@different-church-lady: It’s sort of like religion. One’s own view is obviously correct, and everyone else is either a fanatic or a heretic.
Mallard Filmore
@E.:
“I wear a mask because I don’t trust you. If you trust me, you’re a freaking moron.”
Gravenstone
That’s the whole thing in a nutshell. How is it any of your concern if I choose to wear a fucking mask? Short of potentially obscuring my identity (badly) during the commission of a crime, what harm does it do to you*?
*You in this case meaning the morons acting like spoiled children because someone is doing something they’ve been told they should take offense at.
Gravenstone
@Baud: You think the after effects of the shots are bad now …
rikyrah
Oh Hell no ??
Yahoo Sports College Football (@YahooSportsCFB) tweeted at 9:43 AM on Thu, May 06, 2021:
Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp has signed a bill into law allowing college athletes in the state to make endorsement money starting on July 1
The new law also allows schools to take up to 75% of an athlete’s endorsement income and redistribute to other athletes
https://t.co/NwDq6mKcVn https://t.co/636u4drhE9
(https://twitter.com/YahooSportsCFB/status/1390316399848001538?s=03)
rikyrah
@Baud:
I am not going anywhere because of.the.anti-mask, anti-vaccine yahoos.
Sorry. I just will not.
Brachiator
@smith:
We may be hitting a natural hesitancy barrier.
Here is a little article about the flu shot from a couple of years ago.
People have been much better in many cities with respect to the Covid vaccine, but even taking the political nonsense into account, I am not surprised at the slow down in people getting a shot.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
The news media is in the perverse situation of rooting for bad things to happen because it will give them something to write about. Boring is bad for them.
Kent
Teacher here and parent of two teenagers.
I can report that at least in this corner of Washington State, there are a shitload of teens very ready to get the vaccine at first opportunity, if only as a symbolic gesture to own the MAGA freaks who have endlessly politicized this pandemic.
I expect a rash of new teen selfies and tiktok videos from the youth once they can start getting covid shots. It is going to be a thing. And will hopefully push our vaccination rate back up.
Geoduck
@Brachiator: They don’t love Israel. They love the idea of checking off a mark on their Rapture To-Do List. The actual physical country of Israel can literally die in a fire.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Betty Cracker: I once read a book about the history of magic. It argued that historically magic is what you call the other guy’s religion.
Brachiator
@rikyrah:
Do any coaches get endorsement money? Are they going to redistribute that money to other athletes also?
I think this state might soon see a drop in student athletes.
Mallard Filmore
@rikyrah:
But, that’s socialism!
MattF
Anecdata: I was out and around in my (very blue) neighborhood this morning and most people on the street were masked.
GregMulka
@MisterForkbeard:
My oldest is 12.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Some of this is inherent to the industry. I mean, that’s why they call it “news.” Nobody wants to read about old shit. But some of the angles that editors take can make the news pointless.
Gravenstone
@Brachiator: I’m sure the schools can be guaranteed to act in good faith when it comes to “redistributing” that 75% seizure, as well. Unfortunately, the NCAA was making noises towards approving student endorsements, until DOJ apparently told them to hold off, so this might not get much push back from them.
smith
@Brachiator: It could be a normal barrier, but I would expect in that case for the drop-off to be more gradual. Whether it’s built-in skepticism or concern raised by the J&J pause, I think it’s not insoluble. For one thing, surveys of people’s intentions to get vaxxed haven’t shown any sharp increase in hesitancy coincident with the drop in people getting vaccinated; in fact, the trend is in the opposite direction. Most likely, we had a lot of people move from “I’ll get vaxxed as soon as I can,” to, “Maybe I’ll wait and see.” I think those people can be nudged back to action with more reassurance.
I don’t think that that reassurance comes from arguments filled with statistics, but more from seeing what happens to people who are vaxxed. No human being is immune to social modelling. If people who are vaxxed consistently say and show how happy and relieved they are to be vaxxed it could get some of the wait-and-see crowd over the hump.
Nobody in particular
@JoyceH:
There may never be a definitive answer to that question because (I still prefer the plural form), “virii” mutate and evolve at unknown rates, but compared to the interminable human mutation and evolution, it can be light speed.
This is why a mask is now a permanent sartorial accessory in my wardrobe, out of courtesy to myself and everyone else. It’s no big deal and I always wanted to be a bank robber.
That was a grand thread on Doctor Silverman’s last post and I regret having missed it. I read the first post from Bruce and responded. Then reading the other comments, I came across your comment about Franklin. Are you a historian by any chance? You must be able to parse English like the Founders. I just added the link to his final speech in my comment, which of course, bears out what we suspect. It’s Joseph Ellis’ book, Founding Brothers, which advances or implies that Franklin, being older than all the really bright minds was actually the Father, or Grandfather, if you prefer, of this country. And probably a man wise enough in his years to not covet that kind of power in the first place, so happy to let George do it. Because as you say, his expectations were not optimistic. Great thread. One reason why we are here, I suspect, was that Allan Bloom was on to something in his bestseller in 1987. The Closing of the American Mind: How Higher Education Has Failed Democracy and Impoverished the Souls of Today’s Students
The two top reviews at Amazon are illuminating and illustrative of Bloom’s thesis.
Vivek’s top positive review is excellent. This is what passes as “top critical” on Amazon:
WhatsMyNym
We just had a “otherwise healthy man in his 40s who died Monday” in our bigger county on the peninsula. Before that was a 50 year old who died about a month or 2 ago. Our seniors are mostly vaccinated and the virus is definitely showing up more in the younger age groups that aren’t.
Ruckus
@bbleh:
if courtesy was so common more republicans would have some.
NotMax
@Cheryl Rofer
Pardon my ignorance but on its face that sounds self-defeating, compromising the protective solid surface with a whole lotta holes made by needle and thread.
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
My son’s ice cream store has been open for the duration, converted from an indoor neighborhood place to a walk-up window carryout. The day after the new CDC guidelines came out, he sent me a frantic, frustrated text asking me to find & send him the guidelines in a form he could print & hand out at the window. Snotty customers were swaggering up to the window unmasked, sticking their mugs in the clerk’s face, and claiming that the CDC said they didn’t have to wear a mask cuz they’re outside. None of these clerks had even been eligible for vaccination for more than ~10 days at the time, they’re all young. And the asshole customers may be outside, but the workers are stuck inside with their germs for the rest of their shift. He also has workers who take orders from people in line, so he asks everyone, even those in line, to wear masks. And he points out to the really recalcitrant that they can still order online and have their treats delivered. I thought of this when I was at the garden store this morning and someone smirked at me, presumably for wearing a mask. I wasn’t wearing it to protect me, but for the younger workers when I went inside to pay for my plants.
Let’s at least give younger folks time to get all their shots before we start trying to shame anyone into taking off their masks in public.
Ken B
NotMax
@Baud
But- but- Mansquito.
;)
Matt McIrvin
@JoyceH: Vaccination does not protect 100% against COVID infection, so I would say the chance that a vaccinated person could spread the virus is not zero.
It does provide significant protection, such that in a population with a lot of vaccinated people, the virus will be impeded from spreading. But that is with other things being equal–if being vaccinated just drives people to behave recklessly, some of that advantage will be undone.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
…allows schools to take up to 75% of an athlete’s endorsement income…??? WTF is that?
The American Way… not so much. Kemp turns out to be a socialist, do he not? No wonder GA is so F’ed up. Kemp is an ass 24/7~!~
Baud
@Gravenstone:
Yeah, there’s a major antitrust case right now in the Supreme Court brought by the players against the NCAA. Depending on what happens, it could really change college sports substantially.
Baud
@NotMax: Didn’t Bush outlaw that sort of thing?
Baud
E.
@germy: To be honest, I own a bakery where we have been *very* insistent on masks in a county where pretty much no one at all wears them. Like for example, the lady behind the counter at the Post Office. I have also been extremely vocal on the local health department Facebook page. It’s been a pretty trying year. I got laughed at and then coughed on at the grocery store two weeks ago, basically openly mocked, and I thought to myself, you know, I am three weeks vaccinated and probably the only person in here who is arguably safe not to wear a mask, and yet I am also the only person wearing one. Fuck it.
Betty Cracker
@KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager)): God, people are so stupid. For the thousandth time, I’m grateful I don’t have a public-facing job. Kudos to your son by doing right by his workers.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
You think that’s bad, I’ve seen actual crocheted masks on Etsy that are nothing BUT holes. And reviews like “I love this! I can breathe with this mask!”
I hoped it was a joke, but alas it’s not.
VeniceRiley
@Betty Cracker: Hillary took a shot at bothsiderism in a Guardian interview today.
Baud
@VeniceRiley:
Thanks for the pointer.
J R in WV
I plan to mask up for the foreseeable future, esp around others shopping, garden centers, farmer’s market, etc. I’ve seen pretty horrendous behavior in shops with Masks Are Not Optional where people pretend the rag in their hand is masked up — not.
If anyone gives me any static about my mask, I’ll be asking them if they don’t suspect I might be protecting them from me, as well as protecting me from them.
Also, my parents raised me to have manners and be polite, and during a pandemic that means being masked up around others… I guess your parents didn’t talk about politeness, huh? Maybe that part of the conversation wouldn’t be so polite…
Matt McIrvin
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I’m pretty sure the crocheted and mesh masks are intentional “fuck you” gestures toward mask mandates.
Nobody in particular
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
If they think these little pieces of cloth are a problem … the CPAP machine mask will set them straight when they develop sleep apnea. 5 years from now these people will revisit contrails and be sporting their own personal oxygen bottle complete with mask.
Nora Lenderbee
@Nobody in particular:
“Virii” is not the plural of “virus” in either Latin or English. The plural in English is “viruses.” The Latin word has no plural, or at least none has ever been found. If it did have a plural, it isn’t clear what the plural would be–possibly viri or vira–but it definitely would not be “virii.”
You can call them “virii” if it amuses you to do so, but don’t imply that it’s anything but humorous.
Brachiator
@Baud:
FaceBook is not the problem. Governments use social media to spread lies and propaganda. People are the problem, not the tools they use.
Soprano2
I’m watching the line on our country graph for 1st vaccinations slowly inch toward 40%. It’s been leveling off for a couple of weeks now. I’m hoping that now that pharmacies are going to be doing walk-in vaccinations it’ll start going up again.
Brachiator
@smith:
Totally agree.
Good point. I hope the pace of vaccination picks up again soon.
Kent
I mean, if Kemp wants to argue for a top income tax of 75% for everyone including all corporations then fine. We can have that discussion. But if it is just going to be mostly young black athletes who get to pay a 75% income tax then that is just dripping with patronizing racism.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@bluefoot:
I’ve not seen that here in California, I went with my wife for her jab and she went with me for mine.
Nobody in particular
@Baud:
We never should have let them kill the Fairness Doctrine.
Nobody in particular
@Nora Lenderbee:
It does amuse me. Like saying Chairmans Emeritii is the plural form because it is.
English, all languages, tend to mutate too. I still write “an historian” the way I learned grammar just to get corrected. Did you study Latin? It’s been years.
There are reasons I don’t use wiki very often.
Kelly
Last week at Silver Falls State Park hikers were 99% masked with most folks covering up as other hikers came into view. That’s what I’ve been doing out hiking. This week about a third did not mask at all. I believe this behavior is a response to new CDC guidelines. Would be OK if the unmasked are fully vaxed. The unmasked where mostly young adults and old men. Hard to know their vaccination status.
zhena gogolia
Since MM loves Cuomo so much, he’s one of Cauvin’s best impressions. He always works the word “ventilators” in somehow.
marcopolo
My new mask strategy is if someone gives me grief for wearing a mask I ask them how they feel about people owning & carrying firearms. If someone can carry/conceal carry a gun everywhere they go I can damn well wear a piece of cloth over my mouth where and when I want to.
prostratedragon
@rikyrah: So I take it that it’s now ok to talk about a top marginal tax rate of 75 percent.
J R in WV
@Kent:
Well, since we’re talking about Ga Gov Kemp — did we even need to know these taxation details before deciding it was “dripping with patronizing racism.”?
NotMax
@Nobody in particular
Nor wikii, also too.
:)
randy khan
I will continue to wear a mask in situations where the CDC and/or local government says to wear one, where businesses tell me they want me to wear one, and when I can tell that it will make other people more comfortable (generally when they’re wearing masks; hard to tell otherwise unless they say something). Otherwise, I want the sun and wind on my face, and will act accordingly.
But I just can’t get upset if other people want to be more conservative about de-masking. It’s your life, not mine, and you ought to be able to decide you don’t want to take a risk.
Ruckus
@Nobody in particular:
A favorite uncle had a bit of a smoking habit and spent his last few years with a mask and dragging around an oxygen tank. A mask? Not even close.
Nora Lenderbee
@Nobody in particular: Yes, but it was years ago for me, too.
Where I am now, I hear a lot more people using fancy words incorrectly to sound smart than using them playfully. It makes me a bit sensitive.
Baud
@Nora Lenderbee: Indubitably.
Matt McIrvin
@smith: People like Alex Jones are literally saying that everyone who gets vaccinated is going to have debilitating nerve damage in X months and drop dead in Y months. They’re these very specific predictions and I wonder if it’s going to take months of people not dropping dead of vaccine before some are convinced (or if they’ll even remember the claims for that long).
AnotherKevin
@dmsilev: The West Los Angeles zip codes are all over 70% of those ages 16 and up (having had at least one shot).
Dan B
@Kent: I eagerly await the Vaccine! Tic Toks. Can we has a post about the bestest?
Our SE Seattle, highest percentage minority zip in the PNW, is at 75% vacc’d for 16 and up. There are lots of service workers and people who have issues getting to vaccination sites, making appointments, etc. There’s a different feel in the last week. It’s relaxed – but still taking precautions. It’s as though we can see the end but we’re almost there, not at the finish line and there may be hiccups before we’re there.
My fear is the Indian variants arriving. There are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of South Asians here. How many have come here to escape to safety is not known.
If the Indian variants bring on a fifth wave will there be violent reactions?
Dan B
@E.: Sounds emotionally draining. People seem desperate to gain some power over their circumstances but frequently choose the process that can never provide them with personal or community empowerment. They often attempt to emulate the truly powerful but fail to notice that they are the victim in that dynamic. Our neighbor announced 9 months ago that he wasn’t afraid of “the virus”. He’s a big strong black man with a toddler he lavished love upon. Fortunately his mother in law, who they live with,, seems to have laud down the law. We believe he’s Christian and believed he’d be protected by his faith. How many good Christians have wondered about God’s love as they gasped for oxygen?
For many people science is opaque. They grasp what they believe they understand correctly.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Dan B:
The Indian variants will likely hit the folks who are being the most difficult the hardest. They think they know this virus, but they don’t understand just how contagious the new variants are. Even if they managed to get infected in the past and not even know it, that gives them some protection but doesn’t make them immune. They are at much greater risk than they realize.
Dan B
@Nobody in particular: Yes. A revised and updated version would be easier. At this point some government will use anger at disinformation to push through legislation that will make it illegal to censor right wing speech and “opinion”. Unless progressive governments take action the authoritarians will use honest anger at dangerous disinformation to kneecap fair and transparent regulation.
Nobody in particular
@NotMax:
Drat! And Wikiup.
Nobody in particular
@Dan B:
This is why I really still harp on Jefferson’s letter to… it’s Panel 4 at Monticello, and how I happened to “meet” the good Dr. S years ago at Col. Lang’s blog, but I digress. He was trying to find this quote: We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors. Here is more but read the entire letter and tell me Jefferson wasn’t a “progressive” for his day and for a slave owner, and why they sent him to Paris during the Convention, to get him out of the way. and why I can’t forget it will follow.
It comes down to this: should we lift the hood on this experimental engine of self-government and begin to tinker with it? Because that could be a Gordian knot of trouble. And whatever we came up with, even if “better,” which is debatable, will still be gamed by the grifters, thieves, and fanatics. And ironically, Jefferson is attitudinally “conservative” and then “progressive” (for the period), cotemporaneously. The “regimen of our barbarous ancestors.”
There’s a good reason the Greeks defined Utopia as “no such place” or a concept to that effect. This is the best of all possible worlds.
Nobody in particular
@Nora Lenderbee:
I apologize Ms. Lenderbee. It’s a silly tic, an idiosyncratic rut, like to some coinkydink is a coincidence to the rest of us. It’s probably a conflation of a pneumonic, (or demonic), device used years ago to remember some Latin declension. I’d had 5 years of Latin by the 9th grade. Reading, learning, and translating Gallic Wars backward and forward. Not fun, but I’m glad I did it. It even caused me to drop out of High School, until college.
I’ll try to keep it under control. Personal idiosyncratic behaviors of others drive all of us crazy at times. I’m glad I didn’t whip out my other bad Latin: Ubi dubi extrangulatum.
No, it is not found in the Latin you or I had to study and it does not mean: When in doubt, whip it out. But it could easily have been graffiti written on a wall in some corner of the empire.
We are not all that far removed from them.
Panurge
@germy: “Let’s return to the Old Normal.”
I mean, what else is “conservatism” really about?