Last weekend, I had to take a long road trip, so I downloaded some podcasts. In my faltering quest to become a “normie” (i.e., someone who doesn’t obsess over politics), I’ve stopped watching cable news unless there’s a fast-unfolding event, and I’ve quit listening to all political podcasts regularly except the occasional Josh Marshall episode. But since I had hours and hours to fill last weekend, I downloaded a Pod Save the World episode.
I tuned a lot of it out, to be honest. Maybe I’m making more progress on the road to Normieville than I thought! But during a discussion about the reconciliation bill vs. the bipartisan infrastructure package, the O bros made a distinction between “moderates” like Amy Klobuchar and so-called “centrists” like the drama llama Manchinema pair in the Senate and their counterparts in the House, who were recently empastened (i.e., ground into paste) beneath the heel of Nancy Pelosi’s stylish sling-backs.
The terms “moderates” and “centrists” are often used interchangeably, but the O bros said there’s an important difference that should be observed. Moderates like Klobuchar have enduring political convictions that shape their views on proposals, but they’re capable of taking in new information and adjusting their stance accordingly, e.g., whoa, there’s a pandemic or a rogue SCOTUS or an outbreak of fascism in the opposite party, so we have to respond to that accordingly. Whereas “centrists” like Manchinema define their policy stance in opposition to the mainstream of their own party, regardless of external conditions. It’s a branding exercise.
That might be a big DUH to y’all, but I found it clarifying. I have no idea what it will mean for the infrastructure and reconciliation bills except to make the latter smaller, but that’s the framework within which the negotiations will proceed. As most of us suspect, there are likely a handful of senators hiding behind Manchinema’s skirts. Are they moderates or centrists? We’ll find out soon.
Open thread!
WaterGirl
Betty, I thought that was interesting, too, when I listened to that podcast. But then I couldn’t recall where I had heard that, so thanks for highlighting this.
Baud
We have the same problem in trying to make a distinction between liberal vs. progressives, I think.
As far as legislation goes, either stuff passes or it doesn’t, and if it doesn’t, we’ll see who’s to blame. Part of the joy of being a normie is not sweating the details.
Plus, I remember all the consternation about the Obama-era bills not being good enough and how destructive that mindset is.
ETA: and if stuff does pass, we’ll see who campaigns on the success and who doesn’t.
Wvng
What a clarifying distinction. Thank you.
WereBear
One lies, the other doesn’t. Got it.
Baud
I’ve never gotten into podcasts so that has made the normifcation process easier.
trollhattan
In the category comprising neither moderate nor centrist, Lindsay fucking Graham was on the BBC interview show “Hard Talk” slinging paranoia and lies about Afghanistan which is totally Joe Biden’s fault because Trump’s deal had conditions that Taliban had to behave.
He must have said “radical Islam” fifteen times before I switched away. Thanks a lot, lady.
In very local news they have a suspect in custody for our neighborhood arson-murder. Evidently also attempted rape. Parolee with two felony convictions. I feel even worse for the victim and her dogs, because her untimely end was worse than we had imagined.
germy
A moderate opposes Medicare For All because it might be too disruptive for average Americans.
A centrist opposes Medicare For All because it might be too disruptive for his pharmaceutical company donors.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
I agree – I heard that episode and thought it was a good distinction.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: There are definitely people who self-identify as progressives and define their politics in opposition to the Democratic Party; a few still comment on this here blog. But IMO, it’s usually not elected officials on the left who booger up legislation to the detriment of the whole party. It was people like Joe Lieberman and Max Baucus who backloaded the benefits and whittled down the ACA and arguably gave the Tea Party loons an assist in making the ACA an albatross in 2010.
JML
lol, Amy Klobuchar’s defining principle is making sure she stays the most popular politician in MN. She’s the ultimate follower who will almost always end up on the winning side of any issue/vote. Rarely (if ever) will you see her step forward to take a principled stand on an issue that might be unpopular, and I doubt she’ll ever do it without cover. If the senate moves left, so will she. If it moves right, so will she.
That’s ok, I guess: she’s a pretty reliable vote and doesn’t make a lot of waves. She does the other work in the Senate and handles constituent service well. Not everyone in there needs to be trying to lead the way. But there’s a reason one of the smartest political operators I’ve ever known (who knows her well) referred to her as the ultimate vice-president. (She’s also a rotten and abusive boss in many many ways)
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Agree. In terms of elected officials, the right flank has been more destructive.
Matt McIrvin
I’ve been in many discussions about the perfidy of “centrist Democrats” that got blogged down because some people’s definition of a centrist was Joe Manchin and other people’s definition of a centrist was anyone not supporting Bernie Sanders.
Kay
Guffaw. This has been today’s episode of “Klobuchar tells the truth”. My favorite moderate.
Another Scott
I think I’ve only listened to a couple of podcasts – ever – maybe some time in the future…
I appreciate the distinction, but it’s probably a losing battle.
For the MSM, a “moderate Democrat” seems to be anyone on the right side of the party who tries to throw gravel in the gears of quickly passing legislation – for whatever reason. “Centrist” is used to keep from having to use the same word too many times. I really, really dislike both terms because they are so loaded. Who doesn’t want to be in the Goldilocks just right middle?? It’s lazy and manipulative. And, of course, the GQP is united and has no factions because they’re the natural default governing party of Abe Lincoln and Ike and everybody likes Ike. (groucho-roll-eyes.gif)
Grrr…
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
frosty
So according to BC I’m a normie. I’ve never watched cable news and never listened to a podcast.
My three- or four- hours a day reading B-J, the Grauniad, J Rubin, etc don’t count? I have a feeling normies aren’t doing that.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@JML:
I think a reliable vote should get a little more respect. The unreliable votes are killing us right now.
I am surprised that she didn’t get more heat on the way she treats her employees.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Fair point. What point is there to making these distinctions, other than to point out (to whom?) that non-liberal senators are not all birds of the same feather?
Baud
@frosty:
I also don’t do much social media (except if it’s reposted here.)
germy
Normies can tell you every detail about their favorite sports team. Statistics, rivalries, personalities. The ones who don’t follow sports are experts on their favorite musicians and actors.
When it comes to politics, they have a vague understanding that maybe both parties should share power, to prevent either one from going “too far”. I think this is why there’s so much split-ticket voting.
germy
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
Maybe the people who make editorial decisions on whether to report those allegations treat their employees the same way.
WaterGirl
@trollhattan: That is horrible. And horrifying.
azlib
What amazes me about so called centrist is they think trimming down a $3.5T bill (over ten years, mind you) to, say, $2.5T will make any difference in most voters minds. They will still be called socialist or communists, etc.
germy
@trollhattan:
Was the suspect someone you saw in the neighborhood regularly?
Betty Cracker
@JML:
The same was/is true of Joe Biden, and now he’s the president. I haven’t followed Klobuchar’s career as closely as I would if I were a Minnesotan, but my impression is she’s staked out positions that weren’t super-popular in the party from time to time. Maybe they were popular in Minnesota though. I wouldn’t know! ;-)
frosty
@Baud: Same here. FB is the only social media I ever signed up for and over the years most of my favorite friends have faded away and I’m left with the boring ones. As a result I log in less and less.
WaterGirl
@JML:
I am not Amy K.’s biggest fan, but I have to disagree with you here.
Both Amy K. and Claire M. were very early and vocal supporters of Barack Obama at a time when the conventional wisdom was that Clinton was a shoe-in and supporting Obama was risky. A very principled stand for both of them!
germy
@Betty Cracker:
But when people like Bernie and AOC try to push Biden left, folks get mad.
There’s a right way and a wrong way to do it.
Baud
@germy:
As someone who has gotten mad, it’s the tactic rather than the goal that’s the problem.
Cameron
@Kay: What is ‘later?’ When they take him out in a body bag?
Bex
@JML: Joe Biden didn’t ask her to be vice president. He was right.
germy
@Baud:
The wrong tactic feeds into the “dems in disarray” theme, and gives republican ratf**kers ammo. They want our voters discouraged.
trollhattan
@germy:
So far there’s just a name and age, but I’ll be surprised if it’s anybody familiar. It’s evidently the unusual circumstance of suspect and victim not having any prior connection.
He’s a “transient parolee” which, frankly, describes a pretty big cohort of our homeless population.
trollhattan
I’m not buying it, but anyway.
Kay
@Cameron:
I just like that she says it. Cue the people who will call her “mean” – she doesn’t give a shit, and she shouldn’t.
She’s a good solid backer of Biden’s agenda like she was a good solid backer of Obama’s agenda- unlike the high profile the preening, egotistical “centrists” she recognizes she plays on a fucking team and no one is irreplaceable.
Jinchi
Agreed, “Centrist”, “Moderate” and “Independent” are used almost interchangeably in political dialog, even though they are distinctly different classes of political thought.
Moderates want slow methodical change: keep the current system as much as possible and adapt it to address new problems .
Centrists want to meet in the middle. But the middle is defined by where the parties are on any given day. If one party is racing off to the right, the center moves along with it. Those two groups only overlap when the party ideologies are static and everyone actually wants to reach some consensus.
Independents, on the other hand, are people who don’t identify with the party system at all. Political commentary usually discusses them as though they are a distinct third party, with a core ideology in between the Republicans and the Democrats. But they aren’t a cohesive group at all they fall all along the political spectrum.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
I find the framing of the distinction between centrists and moderates to be very illuminating.
I think that all of us, pretty much all day, every day, help spread the media framing, even as we rise up to criticize it.
I stopped reading some blog over a decade ago because all they did was express outrage as they rounded up all the Republican actions and talking points to be outraged about, and all the while they were unintentionally helping to spread Republican talking points even further.
We need to learn to criticize without spreading the framing. Even in the last day in response to the Elizabeth/Lizzy bullshit about ivermenctin – tweet after tweet included the original bullshit and then a tweet above it that criticized what she said.
That is not helping.
Baud
@germy:
Right. They can’t win just by revving up their base. They absolutely need some people on our side to give up.
geg6
@Baud:
I have actually been using podcasts to try being a bit more of a normie. I avoid political podcasts, though. I’m totally in on the My Favorite Murder podcast, which is a true crime/humorous podcast. Sounds weird, but the humor is never at the victims’ expense, but mostly about themselves. Karen and Georgia, the hosts, are very funny, empathetic and relatable to me. I’m also a big fan of some movie podcasts. I follow The Rewatchables, I Saw What You Did and Unspooled. My other “normie” thing is the YouTube reaction channel of Andy and Alex, a couple of recent college grads (they were still in college when they began) who are also musicians. They are exploring mostly rock from well before they were born, both the music and movies about rock or with great rock soundtracks. I have had to find a way to obsess about the fucked up timeline we’re in and they have all been very helpful to my sanity the past 18 months.
Baud
@trollhattan:
McConnell had low approvals too.
debbie
@trollhattan:
I’m not only buying it, I’m cheering it!
JML
@Betty Cracker: I can’t think of a one, frankly. Her big move to try and take on the GOP was during the SCOTUS hearings…when she was trying to build a constituency for a run for president.
One of the reasons there wasn’t much blowback on her as a terrible boss is a) few people were willing to speak on the record for fear they’d never be able to work in MN again, b) accusations were smashed down as being sexist, and c) her presidential campaign never really went anywhere.
Amy K is…fine, as a senator. But knowing her for lo these many years I do not understand the love. Frankly, I vastly prefer Tina Smith.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I agree. We are too fascinated and entertained by the worst people.
Baud
@geg6:
I don’t do any podcasts. I do subscribe to a few non political YouTube channels. Mostly science related.
Another Scott
@azlib: I get and agree with your larger point, but I don’t think this is quite right.
The “infrastructure bill” has a lot of long-term projects (8-10 years). The “reconciliation bill” is the annual federal budget. There are parts of it that have to be priced out for a decade (e.g. taxes), but otherwise it’s just the annual budget being passed in a way that doesn’t require 60 votes in the Senate.
RollCall (from August 9) has a decent (not great, but decent) summary of what’s in the reconciliation bill.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Baud: when the leading lights of the various schools of podcasting are sportsboi bill simmons, dullard joe rogan, & cumtown, it’s easy to ignore it
Baud
I do sometimes listen to the Duolingo Spanish podcast to help with my Spanish. But not as much as I should.
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Betty Cracker: max baucus was not the problem; being able to count to 51 was necessary (h/t kingbeauregard)
ben nelson & joe liebermann were the problem (but also susan collins)
geg6
@geg6:
Somehow the “not” before “obsessed” got left out.
PaulWartenberg
I also consider myself a Moderate, but I openly note a lot of the positions I hold now would be considered “Liberal” or even “Progressive” compared to a Centrist’s world-view that seems to hinge on “whatever’s set in the middle after all the Overton Windows goalposts are moved.”
Part of my world-view is my interest in Pragmatism as a philosophy: Not an -ism for the sake of an ideal or even Utopian objective. Pragmatism in terms of “what works best over the longest time” (“Whatever works” isn’t pragmatic, it’s expediency, and expediency tends to be shoddy). Pragmatism IMHO is a Moderate’s philosophic base: A Moderate is interested in having a functioning government based on an agreed, shared point that’s not necessarily “bipartisan” but a genuine compromise between conflicting ideologies in order to encourage the widest support for that function. Centrists don’t care if it works or not: they only care about the appearance of it.
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@germy: extortion & slander are never a good look — the cumtown left thought they could use tara reade against biden the same way el jefe de maralago & david pecker used granda against jerry & becky falwell
fortunately for us, the mainstream democrat party isn’t as craven as the institutional gqp
Jinchi
@Baud:
Because the difference between them matters for getting policy changes. If you’re writing a letter to your Senator it makes a difference who you’re talking to.
Someone like Klobuchar is looking for solutions to problems like access to healthcare, poverty, and the right to vote. Left up to her, at the end of the day we would have legislation passed, even if it isn’t quite as much as the left would like.
Someone like Joe Manchin is looking for solutions to the problem of keeping Susan Collins happy. Left up to him, nothing will get done.
I haven’t exactly figured out Kirsten Sinema yet.
leeleeFL
Just a question about a term commonly used here that I don’t know. What pray-tell is THE BLOB? Figured it might be the endlessly permanent Forever War assholes who make their grift from pain and violence.
Or, is it the endlessly shitty press?
Or, is it a combination of both?
Betty Cracker
@geg6: Ever listen to The Moth? It’s a podcast recorded at local events, i.e., “story slams,” where people tell personal stories in front of a live audience, or at least did during the Before Times. Some of the stories are hilarious. Some are heartbreaking. Some make you proud or ashamed to be a human being. But almost all of them are fascinating and well told.
Baud
@Jinchi:
But you need to know what makes the individual tick. The label doesn’t seem to add anything.
waspuppet
See I feel like it’s a good distinction but the nomenclature is backwards. A centrist — someone who is in the center of what people want in this country — would be for way higher taxes on rich people and serious gun control, and, with perhaps a few indistinct misgivings, think Joe Biden did the right thing in Afghanistan.
I think of a moderate as someone who “moderates” everything — someone like Manchin who just takes any number with a dollar sign after it and says “Let’s cut it in half for no other reason than my gut feeling that that that just looks like a big number.”
But I guess the actual distinction is more important than what we call it.
narya
I have only tiptoed into listening to podcasts. I listened to the Obama/Springsteen podcasts because BRUUUUUCE, I’ve been listening to Popehat’s All the Presidents’ Lawyers, I’m working my way through The World Beneath (Lincoln’s Bible’s series on mobsters, spies, etc.), and I’m doling out The Good Place as I rewatch it. I occasionally dip into Chris Hayes’ Why is this Happening if it’s a person or subject that interests me, and I’m dipping into Ten Percent Happier podcasts the same way. But I mostly avoid the politics ones (I don’t regard any of the above as politics, per se). I tried a couple, but they bugged me too much. And I mostly listen either when I’m cooking or taking a walk. Quinn Cummings Gives Bad Advice is entertaining, too, though it appears only sporadically.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
Very much so.
wmd
It would be really helpful if we stopped framing reconciliation as a $3.5 Trillion dollar bill – that’s the 10 year cost.
If we framed it as $350 billion a year (less than half the defense budget!) that will give grandma dental, hearing and vision coverage, make the monthly child tax credit permanent , provide jobs for tradespeople installing electric vehicle chargers in your town … maybe the Centrists would have to defend their opposition honestly.
James E Powell
@Kay:
This is all that matters right now. We are in a fight to save the democratic system of government. Like it or not, this depends upon Biden not only being successful, but being seen as successful. It’s the only way to win the midterms.
Under all the circumstances of this moment, any Democrat who is not a team player is an asshole.
Biden is not asking any of them to walk the plank. These programs are all popular or neutral. No Democrats will put their re-elections in jeopardy for voting with Biden.
WaterGirl
@leeleeFL: The BLOB – your first guess is correct. It is not the media.
randy khan
I like that distinction. Another way to think of it is that centrists want to stay in the middle of American politics, while moderates (a term you can use for both parties, although not lately in the Republican Party) want to stay in the middle of their own parties. Biden historically has been a moderate, although that’s a bit hard to tell from his current agenda on domestic policy issues.
The “liberal” v. “progressive” thing is sad/funny if you know the history. The Republicans used to pound Democrats relentlessly for being “hopelessly liberal,” “unbelievably liberal,” and eventually just “liberal,” so a bunch of people decided that a better term would be “progressive.” For reasons that never have made much sense to me, that morphed into progressives being more to the left than liberals, and actually created more of a split in the party than we had before. And, of course, Republicans don’t call people liberal any more – they call all Dems socialists instead. Basically, the result is that the only people who use the word “liberal” any more are people on the left side of the Democratic Party calling out people they don’t like. I guess, if nothing else, that this means that using “progressive” was successful in that it is hard to attack people for being progressive.
Matt McIrvin
@leeleeFL: Former government officials, old neocon pundits and experts-for-hire, basically everyone of all parties who propped up the Bush-era imperial consensus and still want it to continue forever. But the media are part of it by automatically giving them an outlet, under habits going back decades.
Also, a lot of anti-Trump conservatives who are feeling intense relief that they can get back to good old hippie-punching now.
trollhattan
Aussie searchers find a 3 YO boy missing four days in the bush. Amazing, really.
Sitting in a puddle. Seems about right for a 3YO boy.
spc123
@Wvng: My opinion is that self-identified centrists often position/re-position themselves in the middle of the current Overton window. Their one consistent stance is holding that position – thereby proving that they are pure and bereft of “toxic” partisan influences. It’s a fetish. Moderates are just small c conservative – open to some change as long as it is slow and iterative.
WaterGirl
@wmd: On the Pod Save America they talked about faming – as it relates to how we are talking about these infrastructure bills.
Referring to them by dollar amounts IS NOT HELPING.
Even for shorthand references, we should be listing the things these bills will accomplish. By referring to them by dollar amounts we are playing into everything we are fighting against.
Talk about child care, climate change, electric cars, amtrak, whatever.
James E Powell
@Baud:
Approval ratings are abstract, voting is concrete. They either vote for the Republican who they think is annoying or the baby killing, objectively pro-terrorist socialist who hates the troops and football. The choice is clear.
Matt McIrvin
@WaterGirl: You can make any significant amount of government spending sound terrifying by talking about dollar amounts, since, described that way, all large numbers tend to blur together and there’s no basis given for comparing to see what kind of number would be reasonable. In the extreme we get things like Golden Fleece awards for a $50,000 science grant.
Steeplejack (phone)
RIP Belmondo, 88.
Cameron
@trollhattan: OK, that’s a story I needed today. Thanks!
Another Scott
(via JJMacNab)
Cheers,
Scott.
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
I haven’t but will check it out. Thanks!
Betty Cracker
@James E Powell:
That’s exactly how the Republican voters I know see it, so issue polling probably doesn’t mean shit in a state that is dominated by Republicans. But maybe in states where there is a sufficient number of unaffiliated voters, it’s possible for someone like DeSantis or Abbott to overplay their hand. Hell, even in KY that’s possible — that shitbag GOP gov got bounced last time, right?
Ksmiami
@PaulWartenberg: All I can say is fuck fucking fucker Joe Manchin.
Suzanne
@spc123:
Yes, and this is an manifestation of the same tendency we already identified about how lots of people are contrarian (I.e., vaccines are dumb!) because they want to think of themselves as smart. It is deeply painful to realize that you’re dumb, and even more painful to realize that other people have figured that out. “Centrism” used to have a discrete meaning, not just “halfway between sane and crazy”, but the “centrists” under this definition don’t really believe in anything other than looking superior to the left or right.
Pro tip: most people don’t really believe in anything. Most people do not have a consistent political ideology. They don’t have anything we could legitimately call a viewpoint. Most people just want shit to work. As a result, they are attracted to and repelled by people and personalities and typologies. That’s why this “framing” stuff is critical. That’s also why (and I know I keep harping on it) it is vitally important to make the Democratic Party an aspirational brand. Totally abandon the idea that most people vote for our candidates because of policy.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Steeplejack (phone):
Belmondo doing stunts.
I have always had a soft spot for That Man from Rio (1964), a screwball comedy à la française.
Cameron
@Betty Cracker: I’d appreciate your opinion on something I’ve thought about for a while (I’m not a son of the South), and your comment reminded me of it. Do you think it’s feasible to offer Florida voters programs that have already proved successful in other Red states so they don’t have libtard cooties all over them? Specifically, I’m thinking of pre-K, paid tuition to tech/community colleges, and public banking. I think these are great liberal ideas that happen to be implemented in not-so-liberal states.
Suzanne
FYI, trying to look smarter, hipper, more outside the binary left/right system is absolutely Sinema’s tactic and brand here. I really don’t know why any of y’all find her perplexing. She doesn’t believe in anything other than her career. That’s, like, the oldest kind of politician, in many ways.
Kay
@James E Powell:
You reach the point of diminishing returns with centrists. If they block Biden’s agenda them holding a seat in a redder area becomes less valuable, because they damage the rest of the Party’s candidates and the you’re not positioned to take advantage of a shitty GOP candidate or a turn of events. They make a higher risk strategy more appealing, because they’re not delivering rewards with the lower risk of option of kowtowing to them. Their value isn’t constant. It can change.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Makes golf look more fun than it ever previously seemed to be.
jackmac
@Betty Cracker:
Love “The Moth.” My local NPR station (Chicago’s WBEZ) carries it.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
It’s on NPR here on Saturday afternoons. Love it! I even listen to the reruns without complaint!
Kay
We saw real toughness with Biden in his refusal to back down to the demands of media and “the generals” in getting out of Afghanistan.
I have some hope that’ll show up again when Joe Manchin’s donors demand to run the Biden Presidency right into the ground.
leeleeFL
Thank you for the answers to my query!
Betty Cracker
@Cameron: As you know, we’ve got two kinds of problematic Republican voters here: 1) unreconstructed white Southerners, and 2) people who fled failed Caribbean/South American socialist states who think anyone to Rick Scott’s left is the second coming of Hugo Chavez. It’s a tough nut to crack.
ETA: Oh, and The fucking Villages introduced a new category: an influx of Midwestern wingnuts.
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker:
Call them what they are: old white racists who inherited stuff.
Cameron
@Betty Cracker: Thank you. I must admit, every time I hear a reference to The Villages, all I can think of is “I am not a number! I am a free man!”
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: It’s true that some of them inherited stuff, but there are also plenty who retired with decent pensions as was possible for their generation, sold their houses up north and moved to golf villas in or around The Villages. My in-laws (NOT wingnuts, thank dog) did that — he was a firefighter, and she was a librarian.
taumaturgo
The main distinction among the conservative moderate and centrist is the amount of money in legalized bribes they take in to continue their work on behalf not of the voters but the donors. I’ll keep repeating myself here because the discussion lacks substance since political corruption and the influence it buys is never acknowledged. Check out the 2017 Princeton study that concluded we don’t have a functional democracy instead we are fast turning into an oligarchy. There is data going back 30 to 40 years that shows that any legislation garnishing a large voter approval had an insignificant statistical possibility of becoming law unless the legislation came with the backing and lobbying of oligarchs organized corporate power. Said another way oligarchs in charge get all they want and block everything they don’t want. Why is this the case? Who benefits the most from the status quo? Let this sink in and it should be obvious the brouhaha as to who is centrist or moderate is basically meaningless because, in reality, it has nearly zero effect on policies and legislation. Why? Because when it comes to favoring the will and needs of the people, both parties ignore the voters and favor the oligarchs. Both parties suffer from the malady of legalized corruption, one may be more corrupt than the other, but corrupt nonetheless. Talk amongst yourself.
James E Powell
@Cameron:
When I first read the term The Villages, I assumed it was a sarcastic reference to The Prisoner.
kindness
Both Manchin & Kyrstin are racing to define themselves among their fellow Democrats. Manchin can be negotiated with although I fear his high bar won’t satisfy us. Kyrstin? Who the hell knows what she wants? She really does think she can be Arizona’s next John McCain I think. Won’t help her next election. AZ has changed. It’s Republicans have swung even farther to the right and Democrats are unimpressed with her act. I bet she doesn’t win her primary. Having said that, how do we get her vote? Well we could ask her if she’d do it if we gave her an Honorary John McCain Award. I hear it’s very prestigious.
Suzanne
@kindness:
She wants attention. She wants the votes of Mormon centrist women in Maricopa County. She wants to take it in after her political career is over. Why is this confusing to anyone?
Percysowner
Non-political podcasts, I have quite a few
The Shrink Next Door 10 episodes, real story, no murder and about to be made into a Comedy Series on Apple+ a really fascinating story
Futility Closet forgotten stories from the pages of history, this is a don’t miss for me. Comes in at around 30 minutes a week
Hit Parade from Slate looks at popular music throughout the years
Maintenance Phase looks at how we have dealt with issues regarding overweight and health. Does great dives into the fads in dieting and tends to tear them apart.
Stuff You Should Know covers a range of subjects on how things and people work
The Other Half: History of Women Through the Ages
Burnt
@JML: This is spot on. I believe I’ve voted for Klobuchar every time she has stood for election. I have never voted for her in a primary. Oh, well, she is better than Norm Coleman.
PaulWartenberg
@Ksmiami:
True. In some ways Manchin isn’t even a Centrist. He’s an egotist, looking to protect his own money trough for himself and his lobbyist family members.
brantl
@Betty Cracker: I love the Moth. One of the funniest stories ever told was about a guy who figured out who his identity thief was, and got them arrested. It was one of the funniest things that I had ever heard.