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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Saturday Morning Open Thread: ‘Without Optimism, We’ve Already Failed’

Saturday Morning Open Thread: ‘Without Optimism, We’ve Already Failed’

by Anne Laurie|  February 19, 20228:18 am| 139 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, Open Threads

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Feb. 19 marks the 80th anniversary of FDR's Order 9066, which led to the mass incarceration of Japanese Americans including yours truly, then just 4 years old.

I spoke about my memories of that time with @kkOttesen for @wpmagazine. You can read it below. https://t.co/FHy37iQKul

— George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) February 15, 2022

All blessings to you, Mr. Takei:

… Looking at what’s happened in recent years — the anti-Asian hate around the coronavirus, the Muslim [travel] ban — do you see progress?

Some progress and some getting worse. The Muslim travel ban, when that happened, I recognized it as the same thing. You know, the sweeping presumption that we were spies and saboteurs. And the sweeping presumption that Muslim people are all potential terrorists. You know, same thing.

But when Trump signed that — and that was [among] his very first executive order[s] — thousands of young Americans, many lawyers, rushed to their airports throughout the country to welcome Muslim people coming to this country and offer advice and representation. And Sally Yates, the deputy attorney general, said to Trump: I will not defend this executive order. That was all very heartening to me. And it showed that we had made progress. We had learned from our experience.

But on the southern border, young children, babies are torn away from their mothers. How inhumane, how barbaric, can the United States become? [In the internment camps,] we were always intact as a family. So we’ve become worse in that respect. So a few steps forward, but also some horrific steps backwards.

Do you remember how old you were when you started asking questions about the experience?

My asking questions intensified as I grew older. And in my early teens, my father, who I realize now, what an unusual, rare person he was, he started discussing the internment with me in our after-dinner conversations. My father was unusual in that respect, I discovered later on, because so many other Japanese American parents of my parents’ generation didn’t talk about their experience with their children. Because either they were so ashamed by it or so pained, so hurt by it, that they didn’t want to inflict that on their children. All the children knew was that they were in camp.

You know, my father said resilience is not all just teeth-gritting determination. It’s also the strength to find and see beauty in an ugly situation. To be able to find joy, make our joy, behind barbed wires and all these people wallowing in their misery. Some were angry. Some were completely devastated, and marriages were breaking up — and he said, we’ve got to develop a community. And he was a baseball player in San Francisco as a young man and played with a Japanese American team. And he said, we’ve got to build a baseball diamond. And that brought people together, working as a team. And teenagers had nothing to do and they needed to have fun. So after the mess hall dinner, he negotiated with the camp command to have the guards bring a record player over, and they had dances. I remember, our barrack was right across from the mess hall. And my mother put us to sleep. And I drifted off to sleep hearing the big band sound of Tommy Dorsey and Benny Goodman wafting over the night air from the mess halls. And so, you know, resilience takes many, many different forms…

And America, to a large extent, doesn’t know its American history. People that I considered well-read, well-informed people, when I told them about my childhood, were aghast that something like that happened. And so that made me think, I’m going to have to do a bit more storytelling.…

There’s been a recent backlash against stories about the uglier side of American history, especially around what can be taught in the classroom, with [criticism] of critical race theory and the banning of books.

Fanatics — they’re passionately opposed to something that doesn’t exist. I mean, that’s the kind of craziness that we had to put up with during the war. In the vast scope of American history, this kind of fanaticism — which is what that is, they don’t even know what they’re talking about, and they’re getting all excited and passionate and carrying guns about it, you know — this will pass. Our focus and our energy has to be put into education. A people’s democracy is existentially dependent on an educated citizenry.

And my effort is just a small effort on a short chapter of American history. Our story is four years. The African American story is four centuries. It’s a big story to be told. But each person telling small stories and fitting it into this panorama of American history will ultimately prevail. I’m optimistic because of people like Sally Yates and the people that rush to the airports after the Muslim travel ban. I maintain that without optimism, we’ve already failed. So we need optimistic people to be hanging in there. Otherwise, it’s going to be a dystopian society. I don’t subscribe to that. Our democracy is a precious form of government. A people’s democracy. And it’s optimistic people who have faith in the ideals of our democracy that’s going to make it survive…

We’ve got to make America understand that we have great ideals, shining ideals, noble words — equal justice, rule of law — they’re noble words. But they’re just words on paper. They take on substance, meaning, when we take on the responsibility. This is a people’s democracy, and the people have to give meaning to those words.

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Reader Interactions

139Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 8:21 am

    ?

    Thanks, AL.

  2. 2.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 19, 2022 at 8:22 am

    He is a treasure, is George Takei.

  3. 3.

    HinTN

    February 19, 2022 at 8:24 am

    Such eloquence! Thanks for bringing this to us, AL.

  4. 4.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 8:29 am

    this will pass

    I hope so, George.

  5. 5.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 8:30 am

    Wow, just as I pressed “post comment” on my previous comment, George Takei is being interviewed on NPR! ?

  6. 6.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 8:34 am

    @debbie:

    You’re a wizard, Debbie.

  7. 7.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 8:41 am

    @Baud:

    Yeah, I’m something starting with a “w” for sure.

  8. 8.

    Ken

    February 19, 2022 at 8:43 am

    @debbie: Please! No wordle spoilers!

  9. 9.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 8:46 am

    @Ken:

    I got yesterday’s in 3 steps. Who knows what I’m capable of anymore?   ?

  10. 10.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 19, 2022 at 8:46 am

    @Ken:

    I am bummed. For the first time, I didn’t get Wordle today. X/6 — how humiliating.

  11. 11.

    phdesmond

    February 19, 2022 at 8:51 am

    @debbie:

    it was odd to be hearing Takei speak as i read about Takei!

    the dance parties in the mess hall — what a detail.

  12. 12.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 19, 2022 at 8:51 am

    @debbie: I struck out yesterday. Shame, share, shale, fuck me.

    PS: The Ukrainian one, when you have 33 letters instead of 26, is harder.

  13. 13.

    Spanky

    February 19, 2022 at 8:52 am

    Fanatics — they’re passionately opposed to something that doesn’t exist.

    What a perfect phrase.

  14. 14.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 19, 2022 at 8:53 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: We will never look at you the same way again.

  15. 15.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 8:58 am

    Whoa.

    Zoanthids glowing in UV light on the Malabar Hill rocky shore in Mumbai, India. A group of sealife enthusiasts is documenting a wealth of species thriving in the shadow of India’s most populous city, from glowing coral to octopuses
    Photograph: Sarang Naik

  16. 16.

    Geeno

    February 19, 2022 at 9:00 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I had the first three letters with my second guess, and it still took me three more guesses to get it finally. I was getting very concerned there for a minute.

  17. 17.

    NotMax

    February 19, 2022 at 9:02 am

    Found The King’s Man rattling around Hulu. Had been curious about it since the trailers hinted at a rollicking adventure flick. While a not terrible, if brashly inconsistent, watch overall it is far removed from what was anticipated. Grade: B. The entire confrontation scene with Rasputin, while taking substantial liberties with actual history, is so elegantly choreographed it’s alone worth the price (if there were any) of admission.

  18. 18.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 19, 2022 at 9:03 am

    What an inspiring statement from Takei. I love the idea that resilience includes the ability to find joy

  19. 19.

    UncleEbeneezer

    February 19, 2022 at 9:06 am

    @phdesmond: The museum at Manzanar documents alot of this stuff with photos of the interned playing baseball, gardening, having dances etc.  And artwork done by the children.  It’s incredibly moving.  The incredible resilience of people always amazes me.

  20. 20.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:06 am

    @Geeno:

    Weird how that works. There was a word earlier this week (s***e) that lots of Twitterers struck out on and whined about, but I got it in 3. I’ve struck out twice since starting to play it.

  21. 21.

    bbleh

    February 19, 2022 at 9:06 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: My very comment. More of this, please.

  22. 22.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:07 am

    @phdesmond:

    I love his stories.

  23. 23.

    rikyrah

    February 19, 2022 at 9:07 am

    Good Morning Everyone ???

  24. 24.

    UncleEbeneezer

    February 19, 2022 at 9:07 am

    @NotMax: Was it better than the HBO movie Rasputin, with Alan Rickman?  I loved that flick back in the day.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 9:08 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 9:09 am

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    The incredible resilience of people always amazes me.

    They didn’t have the Internet to bring them down.

  27. 27.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 9:09 am

    I adore George Takei.

    I fell asleep early last night and then was wide awake at 230 for several hours. Sometime around 3:30 a.m. I thought it would be a good idea to buy a sweater’s worth of poppy red linen yarn for a KAL (knit along). This morning I’m wondering if 900 a.m. me is bold enough to wear the 330 a.m. me color choice.

  28. 28.

    oatler

    February 19, 2022 at 9:10 am

    @phdesmond:

    Dating advice from Sulu

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaxOfpqcCig

  29. 29.

    oatler

    February 19, 2022 at 9:10 am

    @phdesmond:

    Dating advice from Sulu

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaxOfpqcCig

  30. 30.

    Stevie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:11 am

    My father never talked about the school. The few times he did he was trying to tell funny stories but it was a prison for children so they were horror stories. He never spoke about the sister who disappeared. Her name was Margaret Irvine and I can’t find out what happened to her. There’s a great big hole in my past.

  31. 31.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 19, 2022 at 9:12 am

    @MomSense: That color sounds beautiful

  32. 32.

    Spanky

    February 19, 2022 at 9:13 am

    @MomSense: Someone you know will need a sweater next Christmas.

  33. 33.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 19, 2022 at 9:16 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I know ?

    I’ve let you all down.

    I’m really sorry.

  34. 34.

    Josie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:17 am

    I sometimes feel that my adult life has been a series of revelations of the things I should have learned in school – the Japanese in internment camps, Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee, the fact that Gone With the Wind was so terribly racist, etc.  I have tried to make sure that my own children and the children I have taught  were exposed to the truth, but now there is one more truth from Mr. Takei, that resilience includes seeing beauty even in the difficult days.  What a lesson.

  35. 35.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:17 am

    @MomSense:

    The Google photos I’m seeing of it are beautiful. You never know when a red sweater will come in handy.

  36. 36.

    narya

    February 19, 2022 at 9:18 am

    @MomSense: Yes! You will! Red is NOT a color I can wear, but I love seeing it on folks who can wear it well. (I was a redhead, and it clash(ed/es) with both the hair AND skin tone–even now that I’m mostly grey.)

    Trying to keep busy to keep the worry at bay; I realized, during the questioning from the pre-surgery nurse yesterday, that I haven’t been under general anesthesia since I was 8, so now I can fret about THAT, too. Instead, I’m gonna cook and cook and cook–having a freezer full of food is always a little comforting.

  37. 37.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 9:19 am

    @NotMax:

    I think my son and I are going to watch this today.  We’ve been watching oversimplified history and now armchair history videos on YouTube. This could be a fun spinoff for us.  The oversimplified WWI and Russian Revolution videos are some of my favorite.
    The YouTube videos are animated.  Oversimplified history videos are really funny and clever.  The armchair historian videos present more information, but without the humor.

  38. 38.

    Jeffery

    February 19, 2022 at 9:20 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Clear your web data and history then redo it. (If you do clear everything you lose all your passwords and have to resign into everything that requires one.) If I get stuck I cheat using goole searching  five letter words with the letters that are correct. I channel my inner republican and am allowed to do whatever I want.

  39. 39.

    Ramalama

    February 19, 2022 at 9:25 am

    Recommended reading for today: Seventeen Syllables a fantastic book of short stories by Hisaye Yamamoto, a Japanese-American.

  40. 40.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 9:28 am

    Thank you all for confirming my middle of the night color craving!  It’s a wow color for sure.

    @narya:

    I’m with you.  I filled my freezer with food and bought a freezer’s worth for oldest kid which is in my car.  I’ll drive it up to him today and check in on him. I did quite a bit of knitting in the middle of the night while checking for news from Ukraine.

    Putin seems like such a wild card right now and I don’t know how far he will take this.  And if our intelligence sources are as close to him as it seems, he is likely spinning.

  41. 41.

    NotMax

    February 19, 2022 at 9:28 am

    @MomSense

    Do find somewhere herein to put up a comment about what you and he thought of it. Looking forward to that.

  42. 42.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 19, 2022 at 9:28 am

    This is very interesting:

    China’s foreign minister Wang Yi tells #MSC2022 that the sovereignty, independence & territorial integrity of every country should be safeguarded. “Ukraine is no exception,” he says pic.twitter.com/23ByTHcnVj
    — Noah Barkin (@noahbarkin) February 19, 2022

  43. 43.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 9:31 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    China’s foreign minister Wang Yi tells #MSC2022 that the sovereignty, independence & territorial integrity of every country should be safeguarded until the closing ceremonies are over.

     
    Hopefully, Vlad will listen to China.

  44. 44.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 19, 2022 at 9:34 am

    @MomSense: I suspect that Putin is not as smart as he thinks  he is. Sadly, that doesn’t make him less dangerous

  45. 45.

    Spanky

    February 19, 2022 at 9:35 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Thanks. I’ve been wondering about China’s stance on Ukraine ever since the love fest at the Olympics.

  46. 46.

    zhena gogolia

    February 19, 2022 at 9:36 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: He’s definitely not as smart as he thinks he is. He is the ostensive definition of a smartass.

  47. 47.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:37 am

    Stupid and lucky at the same time.

    “So how was your day today at work?”

    “You wouldn’t believe me if I told you.” ?‍♂️??? pic.twitter.com/bKO9nePuSh
    — Fred Schultz (@FredSchultz35) February 16, 2022

  48. 48.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @NotMax:

    Will do.  We watched The Death of Stalin earlier this week. It took my son a little time to adjust, but he really liked it.  There was a reference in oversimplified history (I think it was the Cold War episodes) to Stalin’s stroke not being treated properly because he had locked up all the good doctors so he was primed for the movie.

  49. 49.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @Baud:

    Is this the same China that issued a joint statement with Russia a couple of weeks ago proclaiming themselves democracies? //

  50. 50.

    sdhays

    February 19, 2022 at 9:40 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: A lot of people are convinced they’re geniuses when all they are is willing to be more ruthless, cruel, and brazen than most people would be willing to be.

  51. 51.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 19, 2022 at 9:41 am

    Zelensky just got a standing ovation at the Munich Security Conference.

  52. 52.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:43 am

    @Spanky:

    If you’ve 49 minutes, this BBC broadcast discussing the Russia-China relationship is very interesting.

  53. 53.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 19, 2022 at 9:44 am

    And for background, this thread has some interesting observations by a Black scholar in Ukraine. Worth the read. But now I have to go do stuff.

    One reason I *think* many can’t see Ukrainians as oppressed is because (and this is a WORKING THEORY) they see them as too white to be systemically abused or colonized to evoke sympathy.
    — Terrell Jermaine Starr (@Russian_Starr) February 19, 2022

  54. 54.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 9:44 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    He also doesn’t look well.  Did you see the images of him with Xi from earlier this month?  His face is a little difficult to read because of all the Botox and fillers, but even still he doesn’t look well.

  55. 55.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 9:46 am

    @debbie:

    OH MY!

  56. 56.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 9:47 am

    @MomSense:

    He also looks like he’s standing on a box. Xi is much taller than Putin.

  57. 57.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 19, 2022 at 9:47 am

    The question I keep asking myself and can’t answer is how we keep atrocities from engulfing America without becoming monsters ourselves. If the people trying to set up a right-wing autocracy have rigged all the levers of power, and are so unreachable and deranged that the only way to defeat them is to kill them, and are just betting that we’re too soft to kill them or if we try, they have the cops and most of the guns and the bombs, then what? What is the non-monster option? Where is the room for optimism here? Is it just, let the fascists take over and wait another 70 or 100 years for the contradictions in the system to accumulate?

    The only way the Nazis were defeated was by bombing and burning the whole country, and no outside Allied force is going to invade us this time. The US internment camps, meanwhile, were an atrocity committed largely by liberals–people way, way more liberal than the people who seem destined to rule us.

  58. 58.

    lahke

    February 19, 2022 at 9:49 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Well now I’m chuffed–4 steps!

  59. 59.

    Yarrow

    February 19, 2022 at 9:56 am

    @MomSense:  Really enjoyed that film. Such a great cast.

  60. 60.

    NotMax

    February 19, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @UncleEbeneezer

    Never seen it.

    Trivia: There’s actually a statue memorializing Rasputin in Tyumen, Siberia.

    (Can’t help but wonder if that monument served as some kind of inspiration for Clint Eastwood.)

  61. 61.

    zhena gogolia

    February 19, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @MomSense: He hasn’t looked well for a very long time. He used to be kind of icky handsome, but now he’s monstrous.

  62. 62.

    Sloane Ranger

    February 19, 2022 at 9:57 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I got it, but it took me all six tries. I didn’t get a single letter on my first try!

    It was pretty much the same a few days ago, when the word was pretty obscure.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 9:58 am

    @Baud: Now if only China would listen to China.

  64. 64.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 19, 2022 at 9:58 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Did he actually there or appear remotely?

  65. 65.

    UncleEbeneezer

    February 19, 2022 at 9:59 am

    @Stevie: That’s so sad.  It’s wild how recent it all was.  I play tennis some times with a Japanese-American man who is in his 60’s.  His mother was interned in WA.  Really good guy.  He often surprise me by showing up at marches and protests for police reform or Planned Parenthood and other stuff, that I’ve notified him about.  Which I really appreciate.

  66. 66.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 9:59 am

    @zhena gogolia: I thought I was the ostensive definition of a smartass.

  67. 67.

    Yarrow

    February 19, 2022 at 10:00 am

    @Gin & Tonic:  Interesting take and it wouldn’t surprise me if it had something to do with it.

  68. 68.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 19, 2022 at 10:00 am

    @Matt McIrvin:  If the people trying to set up a right-wing autocracy have rigged all the levers of power, and are so unreachable and deranged that the only way to defeat them is to kill them, and are just betting that we’re too soft to kill them or if we try, they have the cops and most of the guns and the bombs, then what?

    I don’t accept your premise.

  69. 69.

    zhena gogolia

    February 19, 2022 at 10:01 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: No, because you’re actually smart.

  70. 70.

    UncleEbeneezer

    February 19, 2022 at 10:01 am

    @NotMax: It’s pretty good but it was an HBO movie from the early 90’s when their movies weren’t quite at the prestige-level they are now.  Still, such a great story and Rickman is always a joy to watch and kind of perfect for the role.

  71. 71.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 19, 2022 at 10:01 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: In person.

  72. 72.

    Yarrow

    February 19, 2022 at 10:02 am

    Starting to seem like a pattern.

    Jean-Luc Brunel, the man accused of soliciting underage girls for Jeffrey Epstein, was found dead of apparent suicide in his jail cell.

    His death eerily mirrored that of Epstein’s. https://t.co/Wns4h1gxbF
    — philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) February 19, 2022

  73. 73.

    phdesmond

    February 19, 2022 at 10:02 am

    @oatler:

    oh, that’s funny!

  74. 74.

    UncleEbeneezer

    February 19, 2022 at 10:03 am

    On a related note, don’t have a Times subscription but this looks interesting.  Maybe someone can copy/paste an excerpt…:

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-02-19/japanese-from-latin-america-forced-into-u-s-wartime-incarceration-camps-fighting-for-full-reparations?fbclid=IwAR0-YE2e0A1N754QSS8JNeTWdmlYhf6e41DwA8jPBhzBYpkNzyGGodo44ss

  75. 75.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 10:05 am

    @debbie: I love it. I can laugh without the least bit of guilt.

  76. 76.

    Chief Oshkosh

    February 19, 2022 at 10:12 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Meh. The Chinese are saying that so that they can justify/demand their continued beat-down on all the semi-autonomous states and peoples who want nothing to do with China (or as I’ve been told by my Mongolian friends “the Han”).

  77. 77.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 19, 2022 at 10:12 am

    @Gin & Tonic: A  bold move.   I hope nothing goes down before he gets back.

  78. 78.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    February 19, 2022 at 10:17 am

    OT – Have been chortling over the imagery coming out of Ottawa. It’s both a soothing balm and an aphrodisiac after the soft treatment of the Bundy types and the 1/6/21 assholes.

    Moral of the story – don’t let them entrench themselves.

    “Fook aroond and find oot.”

  79. 79.

    Geminid

    February 19, 2022 at 10:18 am

    It’s a big day in Las Vegas for Nevada 1st Congressional District candidate Amy Vilela. Representative Cori Bush and Nina Turner will campaign in support of Vilela, who is challenging 6-term Rep. Dana Titus. Then Turner, who could not hold on to a 30 point lead in last year’s OH-11 primary, will address a Nevada State Democratic party meeting tomorrow. The subject: “How to turn Nevada Blue.”

    On a happier note, Senator Cortez-Masto has been doing well with fundraising, and would-be challenger Adam Laxalt faces a primary contest with another well funded candidate, Sam Brown. The Nevada primary will be in June.

  80. 80.

    germy

    February 19, 2022 at 10:18 am

    Warmongers argue that we must protect Ukraine because it is a “democracy.” But they’re lying. Ukraine isn't actually a democracy. To hold onto power, Ukraine's president shut down the 3 TV stations that criticized him, and imprisoned… pic.twitter.com/F5RD2DrmRf

    — Tulsi Gabbard ? (@TulsiGabbard) February 19, 2022

    What on earth was she doing on a Democratic primary debate stage? I know we’re a big tent but…

  81. 81.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 10:19 am

    Already answered.

  82. 82.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 10:21 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    My back starts hurting when I watch stuff like that, but yeah, I definitely chortle.

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    February 19, 2022 at 10:21 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    “Apres moi, le deluge.” – Vladimir Putin, Roi des Russes. https://t.co/Y5uPlfYqvN

    — DPRK News Service (@DPRK_News) February 19, 2022

    Google Translate of what he’s replying to (original in French):

    Gérard Araud @GerardAraud

    I was in favor of doing everything to open negotiations with Russia. The Biden administration, the president @EmmanuelMacron and Chancellor Scholz were right to do so. But the time has come to conclude that Russia is not interested in it on its side.

    Yeah, there’s more than a little whiff of “indispensable man” about VVP. He seems to need to learn the hard way…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    TheflipPsyd

    February 19, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @MomSense:  My 11 year old son introduced me to History Bombs a couple of years ago and we enjoy watching them. There are a number of “in one takes” that are just fun to watch. My son has developed a love of history and his knowledge of early 20th century history is pretty amazing now. I am on a phone and cannot do a link but if you search history bomb on you tube, you’ll see a number of videos.

  85. 85.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I don’t accept his premise that I’m not already a monster.

  86. 86.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 19, 2022 at 10:22 am

    @Baud: Good point.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 10:23 am

    @germy:

    We let anyone in.  We’re like the anti-Studio 54.

  88. 88.

    ian

    February 19, 2022 at 10:24 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

     

    @Baud:

    territorial integrity of every country should be safeguarded

    That can be read as a support of Ukraine, but I read that as a warning shot fired at Taiwan.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 10:25 am

    @Geminid:

    The subject: “How to turn Nevada Blue.”

     

    Isn’t NV currently blue? The challenge is keeping it blue.

  90. 90.

    germy

    February 19, 2022 at 10:25 am

    @Baud:

    Sign on door “Please piss out of the tent”

  91. 91.

    Cermet

    February 19, 2022 at 10:27 am

    We are so fu*king racist it isn’t even close so that phase “Land of the free” is a joke and unless that only means white male with money (sorry poor white trash but your stupidity is only exceeded by your racism.)  That all said, every other country is racist too and the vast majority far, far more so. Now that too all said, we are the country that prides itself on being a ‘mixing pot’ so our hypocrisy is plainly on display (through here too, we aren’t the worst offenders by a long shot.)

  92. 92.

    germy

    February 19, 2022 at 10:28 am

    My most deeply held, brand new opinion is that Biden should deploy the same style of info-ops he’s devised to deter and/or expose Putin to similarly anticipate and spoil Republican demagogic tactics here at home (adjusted for domestic politics and law, etc etc).

    — Brian Beutler (@brianbeutler) February 19, 2022

  93. 93.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 10:30 am

    @germy:

    Seconded, godammit.

  94. 94.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 10:31 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I’m struggling with this every day.  One of the reasons I haven’t been able to sleep is because I have been thinking about the teachers I’ve known and some friends and family who survived NAZIs murdering their whole families and more horrors of that war, Soviet invasion and takeover, living under the Soviet shitshow, defection, and life after what they endured.  I’ve been thinking about my Congolese, Senegalese, Eritrean and Somalian friends who are trying to make their lives in Maine.  They have experienced trauma, separation, and life in about the most opposite place possible where the reception is, let’s just say, not always friendly.

    I think we have to fight and somehow hold on to the joys, beauty,  and connections that keep us human.

  95. 95.

    Ken

    February 19, 2022 at 10:34 am

    @germy: I know we’re a big tent but…

    That inevitably means you have a bunch of clowns, and a certain amount of horseshit.

  96. 96.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 10:35 am

    @debbie: A guy I worked with stepped onto an *elevator that wasn’t there.* Fell 3 stories and scrambled his brains. Never worked again. I took a number of falls myself, so I’m on a first name basis with the pain. And yet, sometimes I just can’t help laughing.

    **It is surprising how often that happens. There are several OSHA regs specific to elevators on job sites, yet time and again they get shirked and inevitably somebody pays for it, just not the ones responsible.

  97. 97.

    Geminid

    February 19, 2022 at 10:38 am

    @Baud: Nina Turner might say, “but Nevada isn’t the right kind of Blue. I’ve read that the Democratic Socialists of America gained control of the Nevada party apparatus last year, so Turner will have a receptive audience.

  98. 98.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 10:38 am

    @TheflipPsyd: ​ History Bombs.

  99. 99.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 10:40 am

    @Geminid:

    Bernie did win NV, so if they can be successful, more power to them.

  100. 100.

    Ken

    February 19, 2022 at 10:40 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I saw an OSHA inspection report of Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory* a while back. Humorous, obviously, but by the book as far as regulations. The most frequent citation was for lack of handrails.

    * The Gene Wilder one, of course.

  101. 101.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 19, 2022 at 10:42 am

    @MomSense: One of the answers I keep hearing is “get out” but (1) it seems like a bad, pissant answer when there are like a hundred categories of people above me on the list of people in danger from a fascist American government, and (2) to where? This country is my home and the danger we’re dealing with also seems like one that’s present everywhere in the world. If I go somewhere else it may just be a place that’s a little less far along in the same process. Maybe I’ve saved my own ass but that’s the only thing I’ve saved.

    I had a conversation about this with a black South African in the apartheid era who categorically rejected emigration as a solution to anything, I don’t see why it should be the first thing I think of

    I do worry about making compromises to survive that just end up empowering the bad guys. The temptation is going to be there.

  102. 102.

    TheflipPsyd

    February 19, 2022 at 10:43 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks!

  103. 103.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 10:44 am

    @Ken: I worked on a couple big jobs where all I did for months on end was build handrails.

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    February 19, 2022 at 10:45 am

    @germy: Tulsi Gabbard used to be a Democrat; now I doubt if she even claims to be inside the tent. She’ll always be a “former Democratic Congresswoman,” but the next time she runs it will be as an independent. Maybe Peter Thiel will back a Gabbard/Yang ticket in 2024.

  105. 105.

    RaflW

    February 19, 2022 at 10:45 am

    Anyone on here this morning who lives in MO? Thoughts about Lucas Kunce? The seat is considered ‘safe R’ but it’s just so damn frustrating to see MO be so poorly represented in the Senate. Is Greitens likely to win the GOP primary? If so, there’s at least some rumblings that Kunce has a shot.

  106. 106.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 10:47 am

    @Geminid:

    I would think it’d be Yang/Gabbard.

  107. 107.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 10:48 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    That’s government creating jobs for you.

  108. 108.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 10:49 am

    @TheflipPsyd: No problem. I’m a history nerd.

  109. 109.

    OzarkHillbilly

    February 19, 2022 at 10:52 am

    @Baud: Yep, who does the govt think it is keeping carpenters safe from unscrupulous contractors? The Goddess Ayn Rand certainly wouldn’t approve.

  110. 110.

    Ken

    February 19, 2022 at 10:53 am

    @Baud: Typical inefficiency. If government kept out of it, we’d have twice as many jobs. True, they’d be for osteopathic surgeons, physical therapists, and morticians instead of in construction.

  111. 111.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 19, 2022 at 10:54 am

    @Geminid: Maybe Peter Thiel will back a Gabbard/Yang ticket in 2024.

    Do you wanna tempt the wrath of the whatever high atop the thing?

  112. 112.

    Baud

    February 19, 2022 at 10:56 am

    @Ken:

    True, they’d be for osteopathic surgeons, physical therapists, and morticians instead of in construction.

     
    LOL. Like working people could pay for that if it weren’t for government. People think it’s bad now, wait till we are truly free in the GOP sense of the word.

  113. 113.

    Geminid

    February 19, 2022 at 11:02 am

    @Baud: Nevada Democrats were somehow able to win two Senate seats and the Governorship before Turner’s friends took over. But the win in the Nevada caucuses probably was the high water mark of the 2020 Sanders campaign. Ms. Villela has not forgotten that happy day:

        Two years ago our NV Bernie family was celebrating our landslide caucus win with @Senator Turner in downtown Vegas. This weekend, we’ll be together again for a Bernie Reunion Happy Hour! Get your tickets today & join is at 5pm on Saturday.

    @Amy Villela Feb 17 2022

  114. 114.

    RaflW

    February 19, 2022 at 11:05 am

    Thinking about the OP, have folks watched High on the Hog on Netflix? We had a friend over for dinner last night and we ended up watching ep. 1 after we ate, at his recommendation. I thought it was really good. The Times did a writeup that I’d missed from last year, but it’s about the connections between West Africa and American food, via the slave trade and blending foods into US Black cuisine.

    The Times also offered this essay about it by Osayi Endolyn. “The nature of being Black American is to always be reintroducing yourself to your history. … This is because, as in many historical tales, the full truth has never been the dominant narrative, and has at times been ruthlessly obscured.”

    Said by Endolyn in May of last year, the CRT madness has only increased. But at least ‘banning CRT’ won’t change Netflix (unless we let it). Check it out if you haven’t but have access. I may look for the book on which the series is based, High on the Hog by Jessica B. Harris.

  115. 115.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 11:11 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Wherever you go, there you are – which country in the world isn’t affected by what happens in the US? And this fucking ethno nationalism is spreading.
    I think we stay and fight, especially if we are white.  We have a responsibility to put ourselves in the way, to stand in the gap.  I’m struggling with how. We have to do something about the propaganda outlets like Fox, OANN, etc.  Then there are the states that are disenfranchising voters and fucking with who counts the votes and deciding whose votes are counted.
    I would really like some direction.  I’m ready to do something more than the usual, but I don’t know what to do.  Part of the unease I think a lot of us feel is that we know we need to act but we aren’t sure what to do.

  116. 116.

    Matt McIrvin

    February 19, 2022 at 11:19 am

    @MomSense: If the answer turns out to be “get a gun and shoot a bunch of people” I don’t think I have it in me. Hell, I’ve been trying to keep Republicans from killing themselves with COVID though I’m increasingly not sure why.

  117. 117.

    Brachiator

    February 19, 2022 at 11:22 am

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    On a related note, don’t have a Times subscription but this looks interesting. Maybe someone can copy/paste an excerpt…:

    A related article from Politico. America’s Forgotten Internment.

    Also, some people forget, or do not know, that Canada mistreated their citizens of Japanese ancestry, and sent many to camps. This affected at least 23,000 Japanese Canadians.

  118. 118.

    rikyrah

    February 19, 2022 at 11:28 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Definitely not as smart.

    Just a proficient thug?

  119. 119.

    rikyrah

    February 19, 2022 at 11:29 am

    @Yarrow:

    Suicide.

    Yeah, right?

  120. 120.

    RaflW

    February 19, 2022 at 11:41 am

    @MomSense: “I’m ready to do something more than the usual, but I don’t know what to do.  Part of the unease I think a lot of us feel is that we know we need to act but we aren’t sure what to do.”

    A couple of thoughts (for any/all of us): Become an election judge. Join and get active with the League of Women Voters. Even in blue states. If your state’s S.O.S. is up for election, campaign for the Dem candidate. Run for school board (Run for Something can help.)

    I’d also invite people to check out UU the Vote. It is nominally faith-based, but Unitarian Universalism is both a very religiously liberal tradition, and not a proselytizing faith. We don’t care if you’re atheist (my atheist partner is an ordained UU minister! He just served an humanist UU congregation for 8 years), Hindu, Muslim, lapsed or active protestant or Catholic, witch, breatharian, whatevs.

    Anyway, UU the Vote did kick ass organizing for 2020, and we’re gearing up right now for the mid-terms. It’s nonpartisan work, but with a clear racial justice analysis. We know where to register voters, where to push election integrity and ballot access issues, etc. We’re scrappy, punch above our weight, have lots of local partners on the ground in ‘battle’ states. But we need more people! We’re a small faith. And welcome all to help in the ’22 and ’24 democracy-defining elections.

  121. 121.

    There go two miscreants

    February 19, 2022 at 11:50 am

    @Ken: Good edit!

  122. 122.

    debbie

    February 19, 2022 at 11:52 am

    @MomSense:

    This same thing is happening everywhere. New Zealand, for chrissake!

  123. 123.

    Geminid

    February 19, 2022 at 11:58 am

    @Matt McIrvin: You could try closing your eyes, taking deep breaths, and imagining that Republicans are Coyotes and that you are a Donkey:

    Donkeys keep predators away by:

    Braying loudly and stomping their feet: sending warning signals that they’re prepared to fight if provoked.

    Kicking out: using their hard hooves to prevent coyotes getting close.

    Charging and chasing: running towards the predator and displaying their size.

    Picking them up by the neck and shaking them wildly: causing injury that can disable or injure.

    But it’s not that donkeys are not afraid of predators (especially coyotes). It’s just that they choose to stay and hold their ground.

       firsttimefarming.com Jan.21 2021

    The Donkey is an apt symbol for the Democratic party.

  124. 124.

    Miss Bianca

    February 19, 2022 at 12:00 pm

    @MomSense: I’ve seen you *and* heard you on Zoom, and I say you not only have the boldness to wear that color, you will BLOOM in that color, so I say, “go for it!”

  125. 125.

    H.E.Wolf

    February 19, 2022 at 12:02 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: “If the people trying to set up a right-wing autocracy have rigged all the levers of power, and are so unreachable and deranged that the only way to defeat them is to kill them, and are just betting that we’re too soft to kill them or if we try, they have the cops and most of the guns and the bombs, then what? What is the non-monster option?”​

    One non-monstrous option is to look to the example of Black Americans and the Civil Rights Movement. What you describe is similar to much of the Black experience in America, over the 4 centuries that George Takei mentions, above.

    My favorite book about the Civil Rights Movement is a collection of oral histories, which is still in print: My Soul is Rested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Soul_Is_Rested

  126. 126.

    Miss Bianca

    February 19, 2022 at 12:04 pm

    @Geminid: Err…I thought Nevada had *already* turned blue?

    ETA: “Oh, it’s just Harry Reid blue! Nina Turner blue is BETTER!”

    I see.

  127. 127.

    Brachiator

    February 19, 2022 at 12:09 pm

    @Ken:

    That inevitably means you have a bunch of clowns, and a certain amount of horseshit.

    Ha! Very good.

  128. 128.

    StringOnAStick

    February 19, 2022 at 12:22 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Las Vegas is blue, but Reno and the capital Carson City are red, as are rural areas (mostly dependent on mining and ranching).  I wonder how Covid has impacted Vegas because it is so tourism dependent.

  129. 129.

    Another Scott

    February 19, 2022 at 12:25 pm

    @Geminid: Donkeys help other animals, also too.  (repost) ScienceNews.org:

    […]

    In the American Southwest, wild donkeys and horses often dig into the dusty sediment to reach cool, crystal clear groundwater to quench their thirst. New research shows this equid ingenuity has far reaching benefits for the ecosystem.

    Equid wells can act as desert oases, providing a major source of water during dry times that benefits a whole host of desert animals and keystone trees, researchers report in the April 30 Science.

    Introduced to North America in the last 500 years or so, wild donkeys and horses are often cast as villains in the West. These species can trample native vegetation, erode creek beds and outcompete native animals. But when Erick Lundgren, a field ecologist at Aarhus University in Denmark, first observed wild donkeys digging wells in 2014, he wondered whether these holes might benefit ecosystems, similar to the way elephant-built water holes can sustain a community in the African savanna.

    […]

    CITATIONS
    E.J. Lundgren et al. Equids engineer desert water availability. Science. Vol. 372, April 30, 2021, p. 491. doi: 10.1126/science.abd6775.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  130. 130.

    MomSense

    February 19, 2022 at 12:25 pm

    @RaflW:

    Shoot, how did I miss UU the vote? I’m a UU PK. I’ll check it out. My local congregation doesn’t have a liaison or chapter.  We’ve been in the interim process so things are in flux.

    @Miss Bianca:

    ?

  131. 131.

    opiejeanne

    February 19, 2022 at 12:36 pm

    @Stevie: Where was Margaret interned, and how old was she? Was Irvine her married name

    I’ve done a lot of sleuthing for my own family, and I might be able to help you get an answer.

  132. 132.

    Mart

    February 19, 2022 at 12:44 pm

    The parents of my best friend in high school each received $20,000 during the Reagan administration for their time in American concentration camps. Remember the neighbors bitching at them about what had they done to deserve that kind of money. Their sprawling multi family farm was stolen from them while in “camp” with no consequences to the thieves. Their way of life destroyed. $40,000 was pennies on the dollar.

  133. 133.

    Geminid

    February 19, 2022 at 1:21 pm

    @H.E.Wolf: Among other topics, Stacey Abrams speaks about her intent to overcome Republican voter suppression in an interview in Atlanta.CapitalBnews.org, titled “Stacey Abrams and her vision for ‘One Georgia’.”

    The story dates from about ten days ago, and has some good stuff from a shrewd political thinker and expert communicator.

  134. 134.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 19, 2022 at 1:26 pm

    Morons wearing MAGA hats are far more likely to be terrorists than anyone Asian or Muslim.

  135. 135.

    Subsole

    February 19, 2022 at 1:38 pm

     

     

    @Geminid:

    @Baud:

    Aren’t they the ones poasting guillotine memes and all that??

    Like, a little extreme even by DSA standards??

     

    @Ken: Nah. All the doctors would be either deported or too busy learning how to Pray the Gay Away down at St. God’s Medical Reeducation Academy.

  136. 136.

    evodevo

    February 19, 2022 at 1:41 pm

    @Geminid: Yep…a LOT of people here in KY who raise sheep keep a donkey or two…excellent watchdogs who work 24/7 for the price of a bag of horsefeed…they don’t care if it’s the neighbor’s pitbull or a coyote – they will go after it relentlessly until it leaves or they stomp it into the ground.

  137. 137.

    Dopey-o

    February 19, 2022 at 3:05 pm

    @RaflW: Is Greitens likely to win the GOP primary? If so, there’s at least some rumblings that Kunce has a shot.

    i am putting all my support behind Greitens. Once he clears the primary, women will will come out of the woodwork with tales of abuse. He is loathed by the Missouri GOP hierarchy, but they may close ranks the way they did for Trump.

    Any other GOP candidate will walk away with the Senate seat. Missouri went 17% for TFG, because we are motivated by hate and vinegar and ignorance and spite. And racism and stupidity and self-destructive urges. And meth and oxy and alcohol abuse.

    And hate is a way of life.

  138. 138.

    Dan B

    February 19, 2022 at 3:26 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: We have friends and had in laws who were at Minidoka.  The in laws died in a high speed crash on the way back to Seattle from their yearly visit to Minidoka.

    I thought everyone knew about the interment and how many Japanese Americans lost their farms, homes, and businesses to white neighbors.

  139. 139.

    Tehanu

    February 19, 2022 at 4:47 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
     

    This country is my home

    Exactly. The rightwing think they are the only “real” Americans and they’ve already done their damnedest to make the flag and patriotism theirs alone. It amazes me how they can believe that about themselves when they quite obviously do not believe that “all men are created equal” or any of the other political ideals that are supposed to be the entire basis of this country.

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