Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Not all heroes wear capes.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Eh, that’s media spin. biden’s health is fine and he’s doing a good job.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

The next time the wall wtreet journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

“More of this”, i said to the dog.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Usually wrong but never in doubt

In my day, never was longer.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

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Monday Morning Open Thread: Back to the Scrum

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244Comments

  2. 2.

    Spanky

    A more perfect headline about the tiger would read

    following “cardiac failure” during medical procedure

  3. 3.

    lowtechcyclist

    putin is dead, the one at the minnesota zoo

    C’mon Asssassins Guild, get the right one next time!

  6. 6.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    So wonder if Heidi Cruz has some sharp words for Ted this morning, as in “THAT’S how a man deals with insults to his wife”.

  9. 9.

    germy

    Spare a thought for the opinion writers now trying to decide whether Chris Rock saying mean shit onstage was a blow to Cancel Culture, or Will Smith violently rebuking him was an act of Cancel Culture, or Will Smith acting out onstage was a blow to Cancel Culture, or

    — Mollie W. O’Reilly (@MollieOReilly) March 28, 2022

    Peggy Noonan could write it up in a way that somehow took all the sides, plus she would find some racist angles to toy with, and all without ever watching an unedited clip of what happened. But not everyone can be so deft.

    — Mollie W. O’Reilly (@MollieOReilly) March 28, 2022

    .

    Dems in disarray

    — Ian Burry (@ian_burry) March 28, 2022

  14. 14.

    germy

    @JMG:

    I remember when Marlon Brando refused the oscar.  He sent a Native American woman to do the refusing instead of doing it himself.

  16. 16.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    My 2C about Oscar Slap Gate is; jokes about people’s medical conditions are over the line, but then so is smacking people around.  Punching down sucks.

  17. 17.

    JPL

    Normally an academy award advances your career.   Will Smith not only hurt his own chances, but he also took away joy for the eventual winner of Best Movie.   It’s doubtful that this is the first time he exploded, and it’s doubtful that this is the first time he used tears to excuse it.

  18. 18.

    Nicole

    @JMG: 

    First interesting thing to ever happen at the Academy Awards.

    A naked guy running across the stage wasn’t enough for you?

  20. 20.

    germy

    Statement from the LAPD:

    “LAPD investigative entities are aware of an incident between two individuals during the Academy Awards program. The incident involved one individual slapping another. The individual involved has declined to file a police report. If the involved party desires a police report at a later date, LAPD will be available to complete an investigative report.”

    Stay out of it, LAPD.

  21. 21.

    Raven

    @JPL: You’ll like this then.

     

    “Knocked Up” director Apatow was highly critical of Smith in a now-deleted tweet: “He could have killed him. That’s pure out of control rage and violence. They’ve heard a million jokes about them in the last three decades. They are not freshman in the world of Hollywood and comedy. He lost his mind.”

  23. 23.

    Suzanne

    I cannot get too wrapped up in the slap itself, but I do think it was shitty to do it on TV. It took attention away from everything else, especially the joy of a movie focusing on Deaf lives winning Best Picture.

    Thunder-stealing is gross.

  25. 25.

    Nicole

    @germy:

    I remember when Marlon Brando refused the oscar.  He sent a Native American woman to do the refusing instead of doing it himself.

    And, as someone pointed out on twitter, that paragon of faux masculinity, John Wayne, wanted to go onstage to fight the woman.  He was held down in his seat.  Probably for the best. I bet she’d have kicked his ass.

  29. 29.

    Raven

    @Suzanne: Then Rock shouldn’t have made a shitty ass joke about a woman with an auto-immune condition at such an auspicious event.

  30. 30.

    Suzanne

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I agree. Both things were icky.

    And the shittiest part is that no one will remember anything else from this year.

    Troy Kotsur, the Deaf actor in CODA who won the best supporting actor award, is a graduate of my high school. He is older than me, but the elder sister of one of my friends was in his year and knew him.

  32. 32.

    germy

    @Raven:

    Edgy male comedians, when they mock men, they usually mock what the men have done, but when they mock women, they usually mock their appearance.

  36. 36.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Nicole: As I recall, her last name was Littlefeather. I can’t imagine the cowboy/Indian jokes a fight with John Wayne would have generated.

    We didn’t watch the Oscars, so this is the first I’ve heard of the slap down. I’ll have to go watch the links.

  37. 37.

    Suzanne

    @Raven: I agree with your statement. I also think that Men Fighting Each Other In Public To Defend Their Women is gross and toxic.

  43. 43.

    Jinchi

    “For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power”

    Maybe I’m missing something, but I fail to see the scandal in Joe Biden’s comment. People are treating it like it’s an explicit call for assassination. This wouldn’t even be a controversial statement in a local campaign commercial.

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    I’ve seen references to several now-deleted tweets about the Oscar smack-down. Rep. Pressley (who also has alopecia) wrote one praising Smith, then deleted it. Don’t famous people know they don’t have a delete button?

    Do y’all think it’s possible Rock didn’t know JPS has alopecia when he made the comment and thought he was just joking about a haircut? I have no idea how widely known her condition is. I didn’t know it, but I don’t follow pop culture that closely.

  46. 46.

    mrmoshpotato

    @germy:

    If the involved party desires a police report at a later date, LAPD will be available to complete an investigative report.” 

    Suck a semi truck of unseasoned dicks, LATrumpTrash!

  47. 47.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @lowtechcyclist:

    putin is dead, the one at the minnesota zoo

    C’mon Asssassins Guild, get the right one next time!

    Hey, the Assassins’ Guild is known for inhuming precisely those whom they are contracted to inhume. Mistakes and collateral damage are the province of the Alchemists’ Guild.

  50. 50.

    rikyrah

     

    ?⚖️ Kenneth of House Pfizer??? 1st of His Name (@Needle_of_Arya) tweeted at 7:05 AM on Mon, Mar 28, 2022:
    This is quite quickly no longer a unified discussion about the slap, but parallel discussions about whether or not any shade of non-white people are allowed to express the same range of emotions as white people without being viewed negatively through anti-humanistic white lenses.
    (https://twitter.com/Needle_of_Arya/status/1508414953585225730?t=2EZNIg0qxRvX6RNDyYkT2A&s=03)

  51. 51.

    Betty

    You just can’t stop Ukrainians from enjoying their misic. So uplifting at this terrible moment for them.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    I’m not sure what you all expect the LAPD to do if Rock decides to press charges.  (Which I hope he doesn’t.)

  54. 54.

    Jinchi

    @Betty Cracker: Do y’all think it’s possible Rock didn’t know JPS has alopecia when he made the comment and thought he was just joking about a haircut?

    Nope. She’s been pretty public about it. My guess is he just thought the joke was funny. Hopefully, he thought she was comfortable enough with herself that she wouldn’t be offended by it.​

  59. 59.

    Ksmiami

    @Jinchi: I feel like we are into “Don’t say Voldemort” Territory with the Putin fear- it’s ridiculous and no Putin cannot stay in power if Russia wants to re-enter the world.

  64. 64.

    Nicole

    What I keep being unable to wrap my head around is that Chris Rock made a documentary on the subject of black women’s hair, and touched on how oppressive society is to black women about their hair.  And, if I remember it right (it’s been a few years since I’ve seen it), mentioned his daughter and his concerns about her self-esteem being tied into whether she had “good hair.”  And he still made that joke.  What? Why? I just don’t… ugh.

    Well, in comedic terms, he punched down, and then he got literally punched.  Instant karma is a thing sometimes.

    (Yes, I know technically it was a slap)

  66. 66.

    Jinchi

    @Raven: I’m not defending Chris Rock or his joke. I just hope that he wasn’t deliberately trying to humiliate her.

  68. 68.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @rikyrah:

    I’m pretty anti-violence, but good grief.  When you mock someone for their embarrassing medical condition on a major worldwide television event, A) you are a complete punching-down asshole, and B) a loving spouse of any gender is going to be furious.  I really can’t blame Smith for wanting to make an equally public and dramatic rejoinder that will convince the world audience.  I really can’t blame Smith for being so angry that there is no strategy to his actions, he just wants to do something.  Jesus fucking Christ, Rock insulted Smith’s spouse in the most public way possible!  Isn’t this the definition of fucking around and finding out?

  69. 69.

    Raven

    @Nicole: Technically. It reminds me of when I was in a jury pool of 30 people and they asked if anyone had ever been in a fight. I was the only one who raised their hand. If you’ve been punched and slapped you know the difference.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @Jinchi:

    I didn’t interpret it as a call for “regime change” either. He won’t do a no fly zone but he’s calling for Putin’s forced removal? It doesn’t make any sense. Silly me, I put in the context of “all Joe Biden’s actions since he was elected” instead of in some insane context where he’s preparing to invade Russia or assassinate someone. I still think I’m right.

  73. 73.

    wenchacha

    @Betty Cracker: Haven’t seen it, but apparently Jada also referred to GI Jane when she showed her shaved head on her show. And at first, Will laughs at Rock’s joke.

    Twitter shows a clip of WS making light of a musician’s bald head, saying the man waxes it every day.  “Aww, joking,” he tells the audience. Fresh Prince era.

    Chris Rock has been diagnosed with a syndrome similar to autism: unable to read social cues being one of the symptoms.

    I have always liked Chris Rock for his SNL stuff, the Daily Show bits and other stuff. Never really liked Will or Jada as much. I’m white, and maybe none of it is anything to me. Punching down sucks, and is also quite possible Chris Rock knows nothing of alopecia. I think Will Smith was out of line; there I said it.

  77. 77.

    Betty Cracker

    @Geminid: Hmmm. DeSantis was eerily silent about Nazis marching and harassing people in Orlando too until the press made an issue of it, then he got all defensive.

  78. 78.

    jonas

    @Jinchi: ​
      It seems to suggest that the US is looking not simply to defend Ukraine, but to topple Putin himself, which is 1. not a US policy objective (as far as we know) and 2. simply gives Putin more justification to double down because now it’s a war for his own survival.

    It wasn’t the worst gaffe ever, but Biden should also know that during a hot war with the risk of a nuclear accident, you shouldn’t be going off script. Plus, it gives the media at least a week’s worth of masturbatory wank material, which is also not good.

  79. 79.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @jonas:
    Smith would have to be even more an asshole than Chris Rock to let his wife be publicly insulted like that as a deliberate stunt, and with her sitting next to him?  Possible, but I doubt it.
    @rikyrah:
    That never occurred to me.  I figured it was because the national press is absolutely obsessed with both-sides-but-Democrats-are-worse, and after Trump being such a scandal-ridden monster they had to take Biden down a peg or twelve.  I know Clinton got plenty of animosity for his being seen as a president for blacks.  The national press has been very, very clear that every voting block but white men is a ‘special interest’ that is only obtained through ‘pandering’.  That they might feel like this slimes Biden with illegitimacy just didn’t occur to me at all, but it does make sense.​

    EDIT – I really don’t think Hillary’s problem with the press was an association with blacks. #MeToo revealed (if it wasn’t obvious already) that the national press was thick with sexual assaulting men and a culture that propelled them to high positions and defended them. You don’t need anything else to explain why Hillary would be treated with obsessive hate.

  80. 80.

    Nicole

    Maybe someone should pass along to Chris Rock the excellent rule about making comments about other people’s appearance- if they chose it, it’s fair game.  If it is not a choice, keep your thoughts to yourself.

  81. 81.

    wenchacha

    @Raven: I mentioned his condition. Because part of the argument has been that Jada has a condition. One is more visible than the other. They both affect the person who has them.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    Rachel Cohen is a really good reporter who covers public schools a lot – she didn’t just jump on the bandwagon to oppose vaccines or masks or “CRT”.

    This is a good article about the cancel culture going on that the New York Times doesn’t cover.

    For teachers, one of the most concerning aspects of the bills is their vagueness. Oklahoma’s law, for example, bans teaching the concept that one race or sex is inherently superior to another, but lawmakers declined to clarify how educators can teach about individuals who subscribed to these supremacist views. Texas’s law says any controversial issue must be taught “in a manner free from political bias” but doesn’t define what counts as controversial. Violating the new rules can bring about steep consequences: Teachers may be fired or lose their licensure; schools’ funding may be cut. Doubtless because the bills offer scant clarity about how one might comply, teachers have already begun self-censoring their lessons out of fear.

  83. 83.

    MisterDancer

    (sigh) On The Slap: Our reactions help it take oxygen away from everything else, and given how many people in prior threads basically said they didn’t care at all about the Oscars, or only care due to personal connections, I’m struggling to grasp how this slap suddenly makes things matter.

    I will say this, though. Chris Rock has real damn history with using women — and their lived experiences — as poorly-chosen targets for his work. And not just his jokes; since so many are mentioning Rock’s documentary Good Hair as some kind of shield against his bad intentions:

    Good Hair lawsuit
    On Monday October 5, 2009, Kimbell filed a lawsuit in a Los Angeles court against Chris Rock Productions, HBO Films, and his 2009 documentary Good Hair, as well as the film’s American and international distributors. Kimbell charged that Rock’s film was an illegal infringement of My Nappy Roots, which she claims to have screened for Rock in 2007 (before its release).[1][2] While Kimbell sought to stop the wide release of Good Hair, a federal judge allowed Rock’s film to be released as scheduled.[3]

    So yeah, there’s a long-standing rumor that Rock just swiped the idea for Good Hair from My Nappy Roots, shoved in some jokes, and released it. Not illegal, but once again, in real poor taste.

  84. 84.

    Betty Cracker

    Trump’s Georgia rally was a low-energy affair:


    The same reporter included a bunch of quotes in which Trump says if Kemp wins the gubernatorial primary, the elections won’t be fair, so Walker won’t win the Senate race, etc. In light of that, I kind of wish more GA Republicans were paying attention It would be awesome if tens of thousands of disappointed Trumpers stay home in the general…

  85. 85.

    Kay

    A federal tax investigation into Hunter Biden is gaining momentum as prosecutors gather information from several of his associates about the sources of his foreign income, including from Ukraine, and examine President Biden’s son’s relationship with a company that handled some of his finances, according to people familiar with the matter.
    In recent weeks, prosecutors from the U.S. attorney’s office in Delaware have sought information and grand-jury testimony about the money Mr. Biden received several years ago from Ukrainian natural-gas company Burisma Holdings Ltd., and how he used that money to pay some obligations, one of those people said.

    If Hunter Biden broke the law he should be prosecuted but it is just tough to watch this and not compare it to the complete lack of investigations or prosecutions re: Donald Trump and his grown children. Hunter Biden is going to be the only tax case? Good Lord.

  86. 86.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Gorsuch has been wailing against vague regulations. I wonder if he’ll make an exception when the first anti-CRT case reaches the Supreme Court.

  87. 87.

    Nicole

    @wenchacha: And if Jada Pinkett Smith was making mean jokes about Rock’s inability to read social cues then maybe that would be applicable.  But she’s never, to my knowledge, done that.

    Just because she has poked fun at her alopecia does not make it okay for Chris Rock to.  It’s the punching up/punching sideways/punching down rule.  Punching up, great comedy!  Punching sideways, also great comedy!  John Oliver is a master at both.

    Punching down is not comedy; it’s bullying.

    Jada Pinkett Smith using a GI Jane reference for herself is her employing self-deprecating humor to deal with a pretty emotional circumstance.  A lot of stuff we thought of as humor decades ago, when you look at it now, was actually just bullying.  It’s good we’re calling it out now.  I don’t think anyone, other than possibly a particular subset of white men, miss, “Take my wife… please!”

  88. 88.

    MisterDancer

    @Kay: Thanks for this. I’ve been trying to find time to write here on all the threads of this I’m compiling from news reports and the like, as well as at least one grassroots efforts I know of fighting back.

    I fear a lot of this gets lost because we’re all too busy, and society has always treated compulsory schooling more as a place to dump kids so adults can go “be productive” than anything else. All this sounds great in that way that so many Right-built ideas do; it’s all sugar and sweetness and happy fun times until the system breaks down…and even then, you just get to blame the Blacks or the Loud Women or the Trans People or the Immigration or whomever can be used to deflect the real problem.

  91. 91.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Trump did successfully take over the GOP base and the Republican Party though. They’re all Trumps now. They don’t need him anymore.

    He’ll still be horribly bitter but he can absolutely claim that as a win. There’s no daylight between “Trump” and “Republicans”.

  92. 92.

    NobodySpecial

    Concerning Slapgate, all I can say is it’s not the first or even the second time Rock has taken public shots at the couple. I’m sure that played into Smith’s response, as bad as it was.

    I’ll also note that prior to his career as a mega millionaire, Will Smith was another young rapper with a troubled childhood who grew up as a teen in 80’s Philadelphia. Not exactly the breeding ground for pushovers, even if he has taken excellent care of his reputation.

  93. 93.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: The vigilante component is huge too. Schools are overburdened enough without inviting all the busybodies in the district who have massive chips on their shoulders to make trouble for attention and political gain. I don’t know about TX, but the teacher shortage was already a crisis in Florida before this bullshit. I suspect it’s about to get a whole lot worse. 

  94. 94.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Baud:

    I wonder if he’ll make an exception when the first anti-CRT case reaches the Supreme Court.

    He voted in favor of transgender rights (and wrote the ruling!), because his judicial philosophy is absolutist enough that ‘if it makes a difference what sex someone is, it’s sexual discrimination.’  He does have principles, even if they’re asshole principles.  How reliable is he about them?  We’ll have to see.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    @MisterDancer:

    She was the first reporter to note that there was a difference between AA parents and white parents on covid mitigations- AA parents were much more cautious. It’s important because US public schools are “majority minority” now- that’s the reality of public schools but one would have to know something about them to look for that.

  96. 96.

    Barbara

    You shouldn’t generate sympathy by upping the ante in retaliation for an insult. It was crass — although probably average for Chris Rock. Slapping him? No, sorry. Never cool. Now, if Smith had grabbed the mic and had something snappy or profound to add, he would have all my respect. What if Rock had been a woman?

  97. 97.

    Ancient Atheist

    Re Chris Rock and Will Smith. Why do I feel that at a different venue guns would have been drawn?

  99. 99.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: That seems to have happened in the Georgia Senate runoff. Republican turnout dropped from November by 200,000, while the Democrats’ dropoff was close to 100,000. This differed from the “historic” pattern of a greater Democratic decline.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    One of the things I enjoyed about the new SCOTUS justice were her ordinary “government nerd” high school pictures :)

    She was running that joint!

  101. 101.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay: Trump did successfully take over the GOP base and the Republican Party though. They’re all Trumps now. They don’t need him anymore.

    This. Trumpism has moved on past Trump himself.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @Barbara:

    I don’t like it because it weirdly elevates the importance of how women look. If it had been like “your wife is a pedophile” or “your wife is a horrible entertainer” I could maybe see it. I don’t know- thorny. It’s always appearance.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Daily. The entire Ohio GOP senate primary is pure Trumpism. There’s at least some diversity of thought on the D side, not that idiot “swing voters” can be trusted to notice anything at all. I’ve canvassed. They’re morons.

  107. 107.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Raven:

    Don’t let your mouth write a check your ass can’t cash.

    Advice for the ages.

  109. 109.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Baud:

    Apropos of nothing whatsoever, I was sitting in a motion docket a few years ago, chatting amiably with a woman I’d dated during law school.  Another woman who I had gone to school with walks past and gives her a sneer.  I looked over at Lori and said “what’s up with her?”  She says “Catherine is just a [c-word] and hates me, always has”.

    Stupidly, I respond “what brought that on in the first place?”  I get a cold stare back, and suddenly recalled a drunken squabble that centered around me about 35 years before.  I quietly exited, realizing that some people’s memories about me are better than my own…..

  110. 110.

    Baud

    An underappreciated facet of the Chris Rock controversy is that people still remember the movie GI Jane.

  113. 113.

    zhena gogolia

     

    @rikyrah: I disagree. I have never seen one person violently strike another in the middle of the Oscars. It would be scandalous no matter who did it or for what reason.

    He could have yelled at him without the physical violence.

  114. 114.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Raven: Or as a guy I worked with liked to say, “I don’t want my alligator mouth getting my hummingbird ass into trouble.”

  116. 116.

    jonas

    @Kay: Biden should throw a fit and threaten to fire the prosecutors and Merrick Garland if the case isn’t dropped immediately. That’s apparently what amazing presidents do.

  117. 117.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Maybe it’s because I’m old enough to remember when I used to be a “negro”, but I still get uncomfortable when I see black people act like assholes in public. It’s not shuckin’ and jivin’ to be adults and handle this bullshit in private. Everybody was a clown in this stupid-ass circus.

  119. 119.

    JMG

    If Smith had slapped Rock at one of the many Oscar after parties, we’d have heard about it from TMZ and that’d be it. Seventy years ago, such a beef would’ve happened at the Brown Derby or Romanoff’s and it would have been diligently covered up by EVERYBODY in LA. I just can’t get into this story aside from a little snide laughter. When celebrities show their human sides, it often gets weird.

  120. 120.

    Scout211

    The “people’s convoy” is calling it quits and returning to California.

    Ha ha ha ha.

    HAGERSTOWN, MD   (WMAL)  After spending more than three weeks camped out at the Hagerstown Speedway, the remaining drivers of the Peoples’ Convoy are going back where they came from.

    Co-organizer Mike Landis told the crowd in a Sunday night meeting that there is pending legislation in the California legislature that would further restrict citizens’ rights to make their own choices about health decisions, and that he believed it was more pressing than the group’s stated mission to end the existing federal state of emergency on COVID.  “That’s already in place,” Landis told the drivers, “and we need to stop stuff like these bills from getting in place, otherwise the rest of us who don’t live in California are going to end up being subjected to the same situation.”

  121. 121.

    Baud

    @Scout211:

    ?

    ETA

    pending legislation in the California legislature that would further restrict citizens’ rights to make their own choices about health decisions

     

    Wait till they find out what Texas is doing to women!

  122. 122.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Baud:

    That would have been very, very bad. My career would have topped out as either slumlord, used car lot owner, pawn shop operator, strip club owner or marital aid distributor.

  125. 125.

    Betty Cracker

    @zhena gogolia: Well, yeah. And it’s utterly unsurprising that it attracted the attention of lots of people who otherwise DGAF about the Oscars. In TMZ Nation, when one celebrity hits another in the face during an awards ceremony, it’s a BFD.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    @Betty Cracker:

    Do y’all think it’s possible Rock didn’t know JPS has alopecia when he made the comment and thought he was just joking about a haircut?

    He knows now.

    The whole thing is sad. The craziest thing is the confirmation of the adage “the show must go on.”

  130. 130.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Scout211:

    Huh. I’m a little surprised. They were looking silly because mandates had largely been lifted around the country long before they even arrived in the DC area, but with inflation and fuel prices going higher they probably could’ve tried to martyr themselves with that. Potentially to better success

  131. 131.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: Women coming to blows over me would be hot though.

    If that ever happens to me, it’ll be 85 year old women in the old-age home, and it’ll be because most of the other would-be 85 year old men in their cohort are already six feet under.

  133. 133.

    Another Scott

    Punching down over medical conditions is bad.

    Violence is bad.

    Jokes are often tasteless.

    Everyone is human.

    But, …

    No. Rock told a joke in poor taste. Smith walked up and hit him in the face. Rock did not hit him back. Both sides journalism poisons your fucking mind. https://t.co/BFuuRKHxZy

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) March 28, 2022

    +1

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    Ken

    @Geminid: one element was investment of Florida state money in Russian assets.

    And the Kentucky teacher’s pension fund was also invested in Russia. There’s a definite pattern here…

    Though I’m sure it comes down to the fund managers seeking the best return on their investment, and choosing the high-performing Russian economy.

  139. 139.

    Ken

    @Kay: idiot “swing voters” can be trusted to notice anything at all. I’ve canvassed. They’re morons.

    The preferred term is “people of the land, the common clay of the (mid)West.”

  141. 141.

    WaterGirl

    @Ancient Atheist: Seriously?

    I am hoping I’m wrong, but I can’t see any way to take your comment as meaning anything other than two black guys are thugs who would shoot each other in a heartbeat, because that’s what black men do.

    Please tell me that I have that wrong and that you intended nothing of the kind.

  144. 144.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ken: They preferred to be called “Trump trash!” or “Putin’s bitches!” (by the transitive property.

  145. 145.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Teachers may be fired or lose their licensure; schools’ funding may be cut. Doubtless because the bills offer scant clarity about how one might comply, teachers have already begun self-censoring their lessons out of fear.

    This is the ultimate point of the law.

  147. 147.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @lowtechcyclist: I have this happen, what, three times now? The hilarious bit was all three women who were the aggressors and decided the other woman  was stealing me from her had made it clear to me that they totally despised me. Apparently I was supposed to sit there and pine for them.

  148. 148.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: Honor/shame culture is bullshit and I’m never going to stick up for it. I think it’s gross and reprehensible. Having said that, Chris Rock was obnoxious and I don’t feel bad for him.

    The losers in this situation are the rest of the “King Richard” team, including Venus and Serena Williams, and the other winners. For all the talk about Jada Pinkett-Smith having an illness…. the best picture winner was about the Deaf experience and the event should have been remembered to call more attention to their movie and the reality of their lives. And now the focus is on rich famous people, including an insult to the appearance of a lady who is a movie star wearing a designer gown looking more beautiful than most of us ever will. I’m sorry that I can’t get worked up about it.

  150. 150.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Ken: I assume there is a lot of “Those notoriously corrupt face eating Russian snow leopards would never eat my face in this scam” going on there.

  152. 152.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Trumpism has moved on past Trump himself.

    Trumpism is saying out loud the gross, hateful, cruel, paranoid, whiny, delusional shit that Republicans were circulating in chain emails, telling each other in bars, and chatting about in their kitchens when they believed everyone there was one of them.  Only the call to arms of the moment changes.  Among other things, they have told each other for decades absolutely wild-ass conspiracy stories about armies of brown people being bussed from polling place to polling place.  They’ve been passing voter suppression laws since the civil war, and saying it’s because Democrats cheat.  Does getting it out in the open and letting their freak flag fly make things worse?  I don’t know.  It definitely created passion and brought in white supremacists who weren’t interested if they couldn’t let their freak flag fly.

  153. 153.

    PaulB

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Everybody was a clown in this stupid-ass circus.

    Personally, I think that’s all that needs to be said here and I fully intend to ignore last night’s episode going forward, lest I be tempted to start throwing things at my computer screen due to the stupidity of all of the “hot takes” on it.

  154. 154.

    Barbara

    @Suzanne: There is never any need to feel bad for Chris Rock, but escalating the way Smith did is so wrong and stupid — for one thing, Chris Rock has my respect for not reciprocating in kind.  He understood that it was a joke — an unkind and hurtful joke but still, just words.​

  155. 155.

    Suzanne

    @Barbara: I agree. The Thin Black Duke has the best take on it: this whole thing was dumb, nobody acquitted themselves well. And I just cannot get too worked up about it either way. I’ll still watch Chris Rock’s specials and Will Smith’s movies.

    Deal with your drama in private instead of making the event All About You.

  156. 156.

    tam1MI

    Maybe someone should pass along to Chris Rock the excellent rule about making comments about other people’s appearance

    Maybe someone should pass along to Will Smith that assault and battery is a crime.

  158. 158.

    zhena gogolia

    Not on topic, but it’s really just hitting me that Putin was going to attack Ukraine no matter who became president. If it had been TFG, it all would have been over very quickly, because we wouldn’t be giving them any support and there would be no sanctions.

    I truly didn’t understand that he was planning this all along. I really should have.

  160. 160.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Ken:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Maybe the pension funds were invested in broad EM index funds? A lot of growth in international stocks is driven by emerging markets like China etc I think. Or were the state pension funds irresponsibly investing in the Russian stock market?

  161. 161.

    Ken

    @zhena gogolia: If it had been TFG, it all would have been over very quickly, because we wouldn’t be giving them any support

    Nonsense. We would have been coordinating closely with them, providing intelligence, funds, and possibly even weapons.

    Or wait — by “them”, did you mean Ukraine?

  162. 162.

    A Good Woman

    @WaterGirl:

    That isn’t how I took it. I immediately had visions of a gunfight a la The Old West as envisioned by Hollywood.  In medieval times; a duel a la The Last Duel, although different trigger.

    I haven’t bothered to watch the clips. Just another episode of Men (so-called) Behaving Badly, which is just plain annoying.

  164. 164.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    Meh. W. Smith shouldn’t have slapped him, but it isn’t the worst act in the world. No one will make a joke about J. Smith’s hair again, and I have a hard time thinking that is a terrible outcome. I mean, maybe these ‘edgy’ comedians should think a little harder about being so mean to people.

  165. 165.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Ken:

    The addition of alcohol makes every public romantic triangle argument among early 20-somethings so much better, at least insofar as amused spectators are concerned.

  168. 168.

    tam1MI

    Don’t let your mouth write a check your ass can’t cash.

    Poor guy storms a stage where a comedian is doing his act and commits a crime in front of numerous witnesses, he lands his ass in jail.

    Rich guy does it and he gets an award.

    Privilege in action.

  169. 169.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @zhena gogolia:

    This. I think Putin would’ve preferred Trump as you mention, but he was going to invade hell or high water. He thought he had better trained and equipped forces that he had in reality. Probably figured that Ukraine would fall within a few days and the West would just shrug their shoulders in response. He probably also underestimated the magnitude of western sanctions as well. Trying to invade all of Ukraine was simply a step too far

    The question I have is did Putin himself buy into his own propaganda that Ukrianinan civilians would welcome Russian forces as liberators like their conscripts had been led to believe?

  172. 172.

    tam1MI

    @MomSense: Joking about someone’s auto immune disease is not funny.

    Assault and battery is a crime. I thought us Dems respected the rule of law… apparently not.

  173. 173.

    Suzanne

    The other thing this is distracting from is that Jada Pinkett-Smith had an A M A Z I N G look last night. A great fashion moment for her. That dress looked fabulous on her, the color was beautiful, her head styling was gorgeous, the jewelry was perfect. Seriously.

  178. 178.

    geg6

    @Suzanne:

    This.

    I just chalk it up to the fragile ego of a Scientologist feeling dissed and having to go all David Miscavage on Rock (whose joke was in bad taste, granted).  Rock would have better been served by making a Scientology joke.  He’d have probably gotten the same reaction from Smith but I would have laughed at it.

  179. 179.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Omnes Omnibus: That isn’t what I’m saying. He didn’t try to shoot him. Slaps hurt, but they aren’t deadly. He shouldn’t have done it, but people ARE human. The more someone is in the public eye the more they are EXPECTED to calmly endure constant verbal abuse. From social media, from pundits, from comedians, from every corner. Every one of those people making mean, belittling comments feels invincible. They know there will be zero negative consequences for their actions and plenty of ‘yuck yucks’. Maybe those folks need to understand that some people will calmly take it, until they can’t.

  180. 180.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @jonas: It seems to suggest –

    No it doesn’t, IMHO.

    As others on this blog have noted, it’s the Serbian model writ large: The US (and other nations) made it crystal-clear that they considered Slobodan Milošević a war criminal, that until & unless the Serbian nation repudiated him they’d remain international pariahs. (And, mirabile dictu, Slobo succumbed to a heart attack in custody at The Hague during his trial for war crimes.)

    But wait, there’s more! The Russians most able to remove Ptui!n are the ones closest to him and the levers of power. Sending out the clear message that your country can’t regain its standing in the world until Putin is gone can only ratchet up Vova’s paranoia – and the more paranoid he acts, the greater the likelihood that someone with sufficient access to manage the job will see fit to act in response.

  181. 181.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    And like, I don’t know, you can still empathize with why Smith did what he did and still think he shouldn’t have done it

  185. 185.

    artem1s

    A pox on all their houses. Maybe it’s time the Oscars stop with trying to make this into suspenseful entertainment that has to be topped by something weirder/outrageous/funnier every year just for ratings sake. How many years of down punching did viewers have to endure during the Gervais years?  And those of us who thought it was awful and tedious were told we couldn’t take a joke. Get over it. There is no way to make these hours of presentations not boring. It’s was out of hand decades ago. Time to stop broadcasting it altogether.

  188. 188.

    Winston

    I think NATO et all should lend/lease Ukraine a couple of DDG and a CMG stationed in the Baltic with about 500 Tomahawks.

    And no doubt this will give OO the opportunity to fear it would cause WWIII

    Putin might consider that a slap in the face.

  189. 189.

    Brachiator

    I saw the incident as it happened and at first thought it was a deliberate gag. And Rock’s initial reaction was edited and censored so I still wasn’t sure what was happening when he continued, but I noticed the huge change in his demeanor. And as I noted earlier, the old adage that “the show must go on” was never more oddly applicable to this event.

    I read later that Denzel Washington and Tyler Perry came forward to counsel Smith. This was very compassionate.

    Other than that I have no hot take, other than wishing that it had been a gag.​

     

    ETA: I probably would not mind if someone slapped on of the jerk Republican senators at the Supreme Court hearings.

  191. 191.

    tam1MI

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Assault and battery are actually two separate crimes.

    You are absolutely right.

    From Barron’s Law Dictionary, 3rd edition:

    ASSAULT: An attempt or threat, with unlawful force, to inflict bodily injury on another, accompanied by the apparent present ability to give effect to the attempt if not prevented.

    BATTERY: The unlawful application of force to the person of another, the touching of another’s person willfully, or in anger.

    It was literally textbook assault and battery.

  192. 192.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Another Scott: Sure. Some people build their careers on mean and belittling comedy, including making fun of the appearance of people in the audience. They’ve felt safe being able to do that. Now some of them will be worried. I have a hard time believing that people who do comedy that isn’t mean and belittling will need to have the same concern. I also have a hard time believing that there haven’t been plenty of incidences of people getting thrown out of a comedy club because they couldn’t take a joke.

  193. 193.

    tam1MI

    @Baud: Interesting how you went straight for the collective responsibility attack the way Republicans always do.

    I had really thought better of the Balloon Juice folks. I guess I was wrong. ☹☹☹

  195. 195.

    tam1MI

    So you think bodily injury was the intent?

    Smith wasn’t charging the stage to adjust Rock’s mic. Hitting someone is primary facie evidence of intent to harm.

  197. 197.

    jonas

    @Uncle Cosmo: Unless there’s some huge coup and revolution in Russia in the near future that topples and replaces him with a liberal democracy eager to make amends with the world, Putin is never coming anywhere near the Hague. *Of course* driving Putin out of power is something much to be desired, which is why Biden was riffing on it. But portraying the Americans as arrogant regime-changers who have spent the last 80 years throwing their unearned weight around the globe to the disadvantage of Russia and its allies (e.g. Serbia) is a big part of Putin’s all-resentment propaganda program, and why the remark wasn’t in the official transcript of the speech that I’m sure Biden and his advisers and speech writers spent a long time on.

  199. 199.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: Methinks you’re on to something here! Although how Denzel W was to be congratulated without invoking The Name is unclear. References to “The Scottish Play” would not have flown…”The Scottish Movie”, perchance?

  201. 201.

    Kay

    @jonas:

    I just think it’s interesting that we have this elaborate, years long investigation into Hunter Biden’s taxes and nothing on Trump or his children.

    It’s ridiculous. The cure isn’t to let them both off. The cure is some consistency and rationality in how these issues are approached.

  202. 202.

    Brachiator

    @tam1MI:

    Hitting someone is primary facie evidence of intent to harm.

    Primary facie?

    I get your point, but you might want to consult that law dictionary again.

  207. 207.

    Cameron

    @Gin & Tonic: That’s nuts – neither side benefits from something like that.  Wonder what sort of third party would try such an act, and for what purpose.  Symptoms sound kind of squirrelly, too, from what I saw in The Guardian.

  208. 208.

    geg6

    @rikyrah:

    I think Rock shouldn’t have made the joke and Smith was an ass for doing what he did.  I think Smith was more in the wrong here, but I don’t understand why we can’t condemn them both.  If my guy had done what he did, I’d kill him if he was very lucky.  I don’t need some damn man to defend my ass and I certainly don’t want one to.

  209. 209.

    geg6

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Speaking as a woman?  This:

    Smith would have to be even more an asshole than Chris Rock to let his wife be publicly insulted like that as a deliberate stunt, and with her sitting next to him? Possible, but I doubt it.

    is toxic masculinity in its most stupid.  And Jada should be pissed at both of them.  Who knows if she is, but I would kill my guy if he pulled the shit Smith pulled.  A smart, strong woman doesn’t need that garbage.

  210. 210.

    Tony Jay

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I have an alibi!

    But seriously, I wonder if someone, somewhere, was paranoid about Roman reinventing himself as “The Man Who Spilled The Beans To Save His Billions”?

  211. 211.

    Brachiator

    I have to applaud Chris Rock for maintaining and going ahead with his segment.

    The comedian looked stunned in the immediate aftermath of the incident, but told the audience: “That was the greatest night in the history of television.”

    Next Oscars, maybe they will have the nominees fight to determine the winner. That will get some ratings.

  212. 212.

    opiejeanne

    I’m going to say this now: I don’t give a fuck about what happened between Smith and Rock last night. It’s between them, and it’s none of my damned business.

  214. 214.

    geg6

    @Suzanne: ​
     
    OMG, I couldn’t disagree more. She looked like a space alligator in that horrible dress. And it had nothing to do with her hair, just that awful dress.

  215. 215.

    geg6

    @artem1s: ​

    Ricky Gervais never mc’d the Oscars. He was Golden Globes all the way, where bad behavior is not only tolerated, but expected. Plus, I think Ricky Gervais is one of the funniest people on the planet. Way funnier than almost any contemporary American comedian you can name.

  216. 216.

    Betty Cracker

    @geg6: LOL! I agree about the dress, which I also thought was hideous. Regarding Smith reaction to Rock’s tasteless joke, would you object on the same grounds if he’d responded verbally rather than physically? For example, if he’d just said what he said, “Keep my wife’s name out of your fucking mouth” without slapping Rock?

  217. 217.

    geg6

    @Betty Cracker:

    I have no problem with that.  I would prefer it if he would have let his wife fight her own battles, though.  My John knows better than to try to step between me and some random asshole who needs told off.

  218. 218.

    WaterGirl

    @Another Scott: All you have to do is watch the last 45 seconds of Biden’s speech to see that the comment about Putin was NOT ad-libbed.

    The end of the speech very deliberately built toward that line.

    In the post I put up for Biden’s speech I even listed the exact time stamp to start watching that last 45 seconds.

    See comment #173 on that post.

  219. 219.

    Tony Jay

    @geg6:

    At this very moment Gervais is sitting in a glass-walled room atop the northernmost Tower of his Springtime Chateau idly stroking a rare Olmec cat called “Me So Bloody Rich” while pondering how many references to “scratching beards” and “The Grumble in the Jungle” he can cram into his next GG hosting.

    Of course he is. Poking fun at everyone else’s Hollywood pretention for shock value is what he does.

  220. 220.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I saw the stage for the Oscars, that looks like the Thunderdome from Mad Max. Small wonder a fight broke out.

  221. 221.

    Tony Jay

    @opiejeanne:

    Roman was very, very, very comfortable being one of the richest supporters of extremist causes the Establishments of the West ever hugged to their collective bosom. He doesn’t want to be the richest exile in the eastern Mediterranean, he wants to be living the life of an Imperial potentate in cities like London, Paris and New York.

    If getting back to where he was means swapping sides, he’ll jump faster than a sleeping bulldog with a firecracker up its arse.

    Unless, you know, he’s not feeling up to it. And that’s always assuming this wasn’t a staged ‘poisoning’ to give him some ‘targeted dissident’ cred before he makes the offer.

  224. 224.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Now I saw the slap, I am call bullshit. That was staged; Smith was relaxed and smiling at the joke and then a bit later Smith is walking on to the stage and the camera shot was well framed with Smith going down the center of the runway. Smith was relaxed the whole time and then walked back to his seat the same way. Rock was clearly expecting Smith, maybe the slap was harder than Rock expected, but there was none of chaos of some dude in rage running on stage.

    Bullshit, total bullshit. A guy who got into a fight because he lost control of his temper just doesn’t walk from it like it’s no biggie. That was some kind of weird ass, Andy Kaufman level nonsense.

  225. 225.

    Another Scott

    @WaterGirl: ?

    Biden, as he often reminds us, has been around foreign policy a  very long time.  He has met VVP multiple times.  He’s not always right, but he knows how these things work.

    He knew what he was doing.

    Whether it was on the official script for the speech, I dunno.  It doesn’t really matter when it comes to conveying the message, IMHO.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  226. 226.

    Geminid

    @Tony Jay: I was interested to see reporting that Ukrainian President Zelenskyy requested that the U.S. not sanction Abramovich because of his value as a”mediator.”

  228. 228.

    Tony Jay

    @Geminid:

    I noticed that too. But then, there’s always the question of whether that’s a double or triple bluff to put more pressure on Abramovich to jump ship with whatever he knows/who he has suborned by putting him under Moscow’s Great Red Eye of paranoid suspicion.

    Really, we won’t know shit about a lot of this for a long time. All the journalists who have the scoops will be saving them for next Christmas’ bestsellers.

  229. 229.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Geminid: There are reports that Abramovich wants to provide a ton of funding to the UA armed forces and has floated the idea of moving his businesses as well.

  230. 230.

    evodevo

    @Ken:  the financial “counselors” KY hires are usually know-nothings, who drink the Wall St. koolaid by the gallon, so not at all surprised. I’m just wondering what role Moscow Mitch and his oligarch friend played…

  231. 231.

    Gin & Tonic

    I can do penance later (maybe) but for now I can watch these all day long.

    Навіть швидка втеча з поля бою російським окупантам не допомогла. Черга в пекло трохи збільшилась.
    Разом переможемо! pic.twitter.com/BbbLZPoR8M
    — ??Armed Forces (@ArmedForcesUkr) March 28, 2022

    Oh, it says, roughly, “Even a swift retreat from the battlefield didn’t help the Russian occupiers. The queue to Hell has grown.”

  232. 232.

    Suzanne

    @geg6: I get bored with all the sequins and strategically-placed cutouts on dresses in recent seasons, and I like when they go bold. Gaultier is always weird. I like it, even when I don’t. And I was annoyed by all the dumb ill-fitting boob cutout things on last night’s dresses.

  233. 233.

    evodevo

    @Cameron:  Yeah…sounds more like when I handle hot peppers and then forget and wipe my face with my hands lol (or other parts…) – maybe on the napkins they used at a meal?

  234. 234.

    geg6

    @raven:

    No need to slap him.  I don’t need to get violent to make my point.  Believe me, no man wants to tangle with me, including my John.  My tongue is sharper than any knife you own.

  235. 235.

    geg6

    @Suzanne: ​
     
    Totally agree on the boobfest. It was just awful, too. I liked Jessica Chastain’s dress. It was festive, sexy (without showing too much) and pretty.

  237. 237.

    Darkrose

    @Betty Cracker: Jada has been open about her condition, and how hard its been, for a while now. Even more than that, though: Chris Rock made a whole movie about Black women and our hair. He knows damn well how much is tied up in that, even if he doesn’t know that Black women are disproportionately affected by alopecia, in part because of all the things we have to do in order to make our hair “acceptable”.

    The House just passed the CROWN Act to ban discriminating against Black people wearing natural hairstyles because so many people, mostly women, have been told that unless we burn our hair straight, it’s “unprofessional”. No, Will Smith should not have slapped Chris Rock on national television. And maybe Chris Rock should keep Jada’s name out of his mouth.

  239. 239.

    Dopey-o

    @rikyrah: The Media is treating Biden like a black guy when they treated Trump like a white guy. The hate directed toward Biden is at the black voters who put him in office….

    Womp! You just got me, right between the eyes. The best, clearest 2 sentences i have read this year.
    Thank you.

  241. 241.

    Darkrose

    @geg6: Black women are always praised for being strong and resilient. It often feels like adding insult to injury; we have to be strong because we can’t count on anyone else being able or willing to stand up for us. Jada is a strong, competent woman who looked like she was genuinely hurt by Rock’s “joke”, especially coming from a guy who has mocked her in the past.

    Speaking only for myself, it was wrong for Will Smith to hit Chris Rock, but I will not lie: it was cathartic as hell, especially after last week, to see someone face consequences for insulting a Black woman.

  242. 242.

    Jim Appleton

    @Raven: Years ago Russ Meyer’s ex Edy Williams used to crash the Oscars, often topless, always with a pet (dog, cheetah, …).

    Late 80s or so, a relative of mine accompanied Edy as her … pet? … at her side wearing a paper bag over his head.

  244. 244.

    sab

    @Darkrose: This has actually been a point of discord in my life. I am white and I expect my spouse to protect me if a large guy is actually attacking me, but point of honor stuff is on me.

    My guy totally disagrees. He feels he needs to protect my honor.

    I think Jada  made Will look like an idiot. And I think she meant to do that.

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