According to the NYT, “luck and poor marksmanship” may have saved the lives of many folks on the Brooklyn subway car on Tuesday when a deranged gunman opened fire on passengers:
As the police announced the capture of Mr. James on Wednesday, the city steadied itself after an attack that has no equivalent in the subway’s history, and the release of more victims from hospitals underscored a remarkable truth:
Not one person died.
“I don’t understand the physics of it; he’s feet away from people with a firearm that is designed to kill people — and no one got killed,” said Paul M. Barrett, the author of “Glock: The Rise of America’s Gun.” “I think it is either tremendous luck — or a miracle.”
A report from The Daily Beast cites another factor: The gunman put on a gas mask and set off smoke bombs before opening fire, possibly to cause terror and “obscure the vision of his targets, but the shooter seems to have obscured his own vision in the process.” A lucky break.
Also, speaking of guns and idiots:
Yeah, that’s kind of the point, dickhead.
Kudos to President Biden for finalizing the ghost gun rule. It won’t solve our gun problem, but it will save some lives. We won’t always get lucky.
Open thread!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Maybe the gunman found out killing other people isn’t as easy as the movies and computer games make it out to be. Makes one feel bad about themselves and the like.
jsled
> It won’t solve our gun problem, but it will save some lives.
No, it will not save any lives.
This whole “ghost gun” concept is simply marketing nonsense.
Anyone – even (maybe especially) those of us on a left who are pro-gun will tell you the same thing.
This “ghost gun rule” is dumb, will not have any positive impact on “gun violence”, and will only alienate a bunch of folks in the middle who’d otherwise be able to be pulled to the left.
Baud
@jsled: People who are alienated by ghost guns really aren’t in the middle.
There’s really no issue that Dems have where someone can’t make the same argument. In the last thread, we were mentioning how our pro-choice views are pushing away some Latinos
ETA: Luckily for people who care about ghost guns above all else, there’s a political party that will cater to their needs.
bago
There’s no such thing as a responsible ghost gun owner.
Removing the serial is literally removing the mechanism for responsibility.
Gin & Tonic
My daughter was on the N train at around that time Tuesday morning, but got off two stops before the station where the shooting occurred. Needless to say, it didn’t make her day.
Joe from Lowell
@jsled: Ah, yes, all of those people “in the middle” who are pro-ghost gun.
Riiiiiiiiiight.
MobiusKlein
The ghost gun above looks like a danger to the shooter.
Baud
I’m less upset about the people we lose because of our efforts, and more about the people we lose because they have convinced themselves that nothing we do is good enough.
WaterGirl
Ghost guns have no serial numbers, so they can not be traced.
A background check is apparently not required in order to buy a ghost gun, so I understand that it’s not possible to limit purchase based on things that normally prohibit a person from buying a gun. I hope they remedy that – or maybe that’s part of the ghost gun regulations.
A regular gun will be picked up by a metal detector.
A ghost gun will not.<- apparently that part was not correct.Anyone who tries to say the ghost guns aren’t a problem is either being disingenuous or is totally disregarding the facts.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Yikes.
Ramalama
The name Blake Masters sounds like a character in a soap opera.
Old School
So how does the new ghost gun rule work? Would Blake Masters have to be able to prove he made his gun a few months ago? Or would the government have to prove that he didn’t?
NotMax
“If you outlaw ghost guns only ghosts will have guns.”
//
Calouste
@jsled: Strong argument, calling things “dumb” and “marketing nonsense”. I’m really convinced now.
Kropacetic
Sure Republicans are abusing minorities and women and queerfolk, also enabling employers to abuse their labor and the environment, but I really like low taxes and no accountability for firearms owners…
Nicole
I watched the NYPD briefing on the guy’s capture yesterday and… oh my God. The NYPD spokespeople were falling all over themselves, praising themselves- “We got him!” was proclaimed many times, along with bragging about how it only took them 36 hours of hard work to catch him, and some acknowledgement of a tip called in to Crime Stoppers.
Then it comes out the guy called the Crime Stoppers HIMSELF. Tells them where he’ll be, and then when the cops arrive and can’t find him it’s up to a bystander to point him out. New York’s Finest, ladies and gentlemen.
cnn.com/2022/04/13/us/brooklyn-subway-shooting-wednesday/index.html
scav
“But the Ghost Guns!!” the “But the Bayyyyyyyy-beeeeeeees!!“ of the NRA.
(all the widdle cute fetus guns just wanting their god-ordained life. A life that matters far far more than any bystanders they take out on the way.)
Joe from Lowell
Another way that they got lucky was the shooter’s use of a handgun instead of an assault rifle.
Rifle rounds are a lot heavier and faster than pistol rounds, so they do a lot more damage.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Hear, hear!
artem1s
getting shot and living with the physical and mental consequences isn’t lucky by any definition. the only lucky one was the shooter that no one died. he won’t be facing the death penalty.
Martin
The SEC is going to have to make an example of Musk. He violated the law with his Twitter investment, and his hostile takeover bid is coercive. The board might be forced to reject the bid because their obligation is to protect the shareholders from a coercive vote, even if they like the bid amount.
A LOT of employees are threatening to quit if shareholders agree to this. This will destroy the platform. I’ve already decided to delete my account if he takes it over. Not willing to be a party to this foolishness.
sdhays
@WaterGirl: Thank you for explaining WTF a “ghost gun” is for those of us not plugged into the myriad of ways people can invent to be able to kill other people.
Kropacetic
Does New York have that?
sdhays
@Martin: Musk increasingly acts like little things like “regulations” and “laws” don’t apply to him because he’s a super-duper MOTU rich fucker. He keeps crossing lines, not dissimilar to Putin. I really hope the SEC is completely fed up with him and throws the book at him, and that the GQP Court doesn’t rescue him later.
Martin
@Kropacetic: No. NY Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional.
Guy will probably face federal hate crime charges as well.
Gravenstone
@Baud: Those “lost” to a gun regulation decision may regain their sanity at some future point in time. Those lost to a gun (legal or otherwise) simply become memories.
trollhattan
“Very legal and very cool.” Wrong on both counts, Skippy.
trollhattan
Frank Robert James. Never trust a guy with three first names.
Betty Cracker
@artem1s: Really? I think we can all agree getting shot sucks, but I suspect all the people who are NOT DEAD after a lunatic opened fire in an enclosed 750-square-foot space feel lucky.
JWR
@WaterGirl:
Here in SoCal, it seems as if most gun crimes are committed using those things. Might just be the reporting on the TV news programs I watch, (ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and DW), but these damn “made for criming” things gotta go.
PS. In other news we can worry ourselves about…
I bet the first thing Elon would do is reinstate TFG’s suspended account. For Freedumb of Speech, man!
Betty Cracker
@Martin: Thinking about deleting my account too if Muskrat swallows Twitter. I’d really miss it, particularly Bird Twitter, which is awesome.
Kropacetic
I sometimes wonder whether our fate will be for the corporate class to finish wholly supplanting the government and rule us as a new aristocracy. I have unwritten science fiction about it, as all my projects are only conceptual and not put to paper.
opiejeanne
@WaterGirl: Why wouldn’t a ghost gun be detected by a metal detector?
Princess
@Martin: I’ll definitely delete my account if Musk is in charge. That’s an easy call.
O. Felix Culpa
@Betty Cracker: I suspect you’re right, and I suspect that only NOT DEAD ones can feel anything at all. :)
Baud
@JWR:
I joked earlier that Google+ is ready for its comeback. But I wonder if some tech company will create a competitor if Musk messes up Twitter.
sdhays
@Baud: IBM is on it!
Joe from Lowell
@Martin: He is being indicted on federal terrorism charges.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: truth social ain’t dead yet, baby!
or maybe it is, I don’t know
matt
‘I made this homemade IED the other day, but thanks to stupid laws I guess I’m a criminal. Waah.’
Kropacetic
Last I heard, it’s ready to be put out of its misery.
Baud
@sdhays:
Usenet 2.0!
jonas
“Ghost” doesn’t refer to it being made from composite/non-metallic material, but rather that it’s been made from untraceable components and/or had all serial numbers removed. They’re “ghost” guns because they’ve never been in any system where the chain of ownership/possession can be traced. The only reason to have one is if you are intending to do something illegal with it.
mrmoshpotato
@Martin:
If this raging douchecanoe does buy Twitter, I look forward to the stock’s plummet.
Martin
@sdhays: I think it’s more a function of tech culture. Tech is very steeped in the culture of permissionless innovation.
Regulators can either say ‘nobody can do anything until we give permission’ or ‘everyone can go for it and we’ll reel you in when you go over the line’, and tech relies on the latter.
Musks problem is that the SEC can’t operate that way because the basic theory behind the SEC is to make sure that people like Musk can’t fuck over routine investors. In theory, the SEC occasionally lives up to its charter. But this is blatant. You can’t buy up a sizable chunk of a company and then threaten investors that you’ll tank the stock if they don’t sell the rest. There is no ‘innovation’ here to warrant the ‘permissionless’ approach.
jonas
@Kropacetic: A death penalty law is still on the books, I believe, but hasn’t been in force for half a century. Regardless, this guy is going up the river for the rest of his life, if not state prison, then the federal pen on terrorism charges.
Chief Oshkosh
@Nicole: Never forget that when the chips were down, the NYC PD belligerently refused to wear masks. And the subway cops were worse!
Fuck ’em.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
Huh? That literally can’t happen if Musk buys Twitter. The value of Twitter could go down, but there would be no more stock being sold in the market.
RobertB
@WaterGirl: That turns out not to be the case. A ‘ghost gun’ is one manufactured without a serial number, not one invisible to x-rays or metal detectors.
Talking strictly AR-15, the only part of the gun that makes the collection of AR-15 parts a ‘gun’ is the lower receiver (where the trigger mechanism lives in an AR-15). And that’s where the serial number is placed. Upper receivers, stocks, etc, don’t have serial numbers. You can buy all of the parts of an AR-15 with no restrictions on the web, except for the lower receiver.
You can buy, on the internet, a CNC milling machine, that is basically a one-purpose 3-D printer that can print a lower receiver. Stick a billet of aluminum in it and press the button. Come back in an hour and you have a lower receiver. You’ll have to buy everything else separately (springs, trigger blades, trigger sear, etc) to populate that new lower receiver, but again, it’s legal to do that.
This ghost lower receiver (we’ll call it that) isn’t transparent to x-rays. It’s made of aluminum. People have tried to make lower receivers using 3D printers (plastic filament or resin), and they’re crazy dangerous. As in ‘blow up in your face’ dangerous.
My opinion, the enhanced ghost gun laws are more gun control theater than actually useful. You’re already breaking laws if you’re walking around carrying a gun with no serial number, and I’d bet that it’s illegal to sell or possess firearms that don’t have serial numbers.
Kropacetic
As businesses consolidate, providing service is becoming less and less the focus. All that’s required to succeed is managing money.
JWR
@Baud: I wonder if I’m the only one who has no idea what Google+ even is? ;) No, srsly, I don’t think I’ve ever looked at it.
Feathers
@opiejeanne: Part of making a ghost gun is having as much as possible be plastic. It can’t be all plastic, so some metal detectors would catch them, but there are also claims that there are versions where the metal parts can be made to appear innocent and screeners might not catch them.
Also, this is another way to catch bad guys through raids. If possessing ghost guns carries heavy penalties, it’s a way around the far too lenient gun laws.
ETA: Said far better by RobertB above. I know about the plastics side because I know several people way to into their home 3-D printers and guns seem to be something they think about.
jonas
The first law of social media platforms is that the second you stop regulating what people post on it, it immediately becomes a cesspool of extremist trolling and nothing more and the vast majority of users (and advertisers) leave in disgust. That is, shall we say, not a good business model. But you do you, Elon.
MisterDancer
I liked aspects of Google+. It wasn’t a completely dead zone, and there were compelling people and discussions on it. In fact, I’ve assumed it was the preponderance of such, along with a sad avalanche of uncontrolled bad-faith actors, and ultimately a lack of elements that were able to be monetized, that led to its demise.
Sure Lurkalot
@Baud:
“I am forced to buy Twitter because it’s all messed up. I alone can fix it. All you suckers are lucky beyond words to live in my illustrious time frame….”Elon Musk
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: So you’re saying he’d take the company private?
Chief Oshkosh
@Martin: My wife and I are (finally) in the market for a new car. We had been looking seriously at a Tesla Model 3. Possibly illogical on our part since he doesn’t run the company, but Musk’s latest bullshit has completely turned us off to Tesla. Not sure which way we’ll go now, but won’t be Tesla. We’re just not into the drama.
And it doesn’t help that the news is currently running the report about the guy who’s Tesla computer locked up at 83 mph…
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
That’s what he said. And his offer is for all the shares. In theory, he could take it public again if he bought it.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
I haven’t heard great things about Teslas. Apart from Musk, I’ll probably go with another brand when I go electric.
Martin
@mrmoshpotato: Yes, that is his offer. He will be the sole owner of the company.
NotMax
@Baud
So old can remember when all the kewl kidz were rushing to Xanga.
;)
Sure Lurkalot
@Kropacetic:
Not surprising as that is the core curriculum of business schools. It didn’t have to be thus.
Baud
@MisterDancer:
Are all the cool kids on Instagram now, or have they moved on to something new?
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I read something about Trump’s Twitter knock-off fail the other day. There are tumbleweeds blowing through the empty streets, according to the report I read. It also said Trump is furious at his minions because of all the snafus and refuses to start posting until it’s “a hit.” That set up a Catch-22 because without Trump, the MAGA mouth-breathers the platform was designed to attract won’t post. I hope Trump is making Devin Nunes’ life a living hell every day.
NotMax
@Martin
If he runs it into the ground, he already has the tunnels in which to store it.
:)
Feathers
@MisterDancer: And a lot of people really pissed that they killed Reader to try to make it a thing. The death of Reader killed traffic to personal blogs and led to the rise of everything being on social media. Also, Google being less useful for finding the sorts of things that people had on their personal blogs, and social media pros heavily gaming Google, adding to its newfound shittiness.
So Google+ ended up being a swing and miss for Google. But smaller social media site can be great if you find a likeminded bunch of folks.
Baud
If Musk does buy Twitter, I just hope all the disgruntled Tweeterers don’t start coming here.
WaterGirl
@opiejeanne: Ghost guns are made of plastic or resin or something. You buy a kit in a box that is mailed to you, and you assemble it using the instructions.
So no serial number, no metal, you can walk right through an airport, get on a plane, or go through a metal detector. ALL WITHOUT DETECTION.
Kropacetic
@Sure Lurkalot: Service is what the little people, the employees ::spit:: do. They’ll follow our edicts to improve marginal data points on our spreadsheets that tell us we’re making more money. They’ll have to. What else are they going to do, starve?
Another more topical favorite: “Sure we kicked your ass with hard work the whole pandemic. Now business is slowed down so we can’t keep you full time anymore. Your bills aren’t our concern.”
Snowflake
You are very misinformed. “Ghost guns” can be made with a 3d printer or from an 80% receiver, which the maker finishes drilling and machining.
Even when the “ghost gun” is made with a 3d printer, it will feature a metal barrel and other metal parts. So the idea that they are not detectible by a metal detector is simply wrong.
As for them being a “problem”, a vanishingly small number of murders/shootings are committed using “ghost guns”. everytownresearch.org/report/ghost-guns-recoveries-and-shootings/. That’s right only 90 total incidents dating back to 2013.
None of this matters of course to the anti-gun hysterics.
Old School
@Baud:
What do you have against DougJ?
WaterGirl
@jonas: Well, maybe what you are describing are referred to as ghost guns too, but what Biden described were plastic guns (or whatever it is that is not metal) that come in a kit that you assemble according to instructions. ?♀️
Kropacetic
No one here at this almost top 10,000 blog would know about anything like that.
jonas
@Chief Oshkosh: We’ll be in the market for a new vehicle in a couple of years, I estimate, and also want to go electric: I’ll be looking at the Ford 150 Lightning, to be honest. First customer deliveries start later this month, so I’m excited to see what actual owners think about it. The automotive press has been raving.
Snowflake
Please stop repeating false information.
For heavens sake, even if you were right about “ghost guns” being undetectable (WHICH YOU ARE NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG WRONG) you are aware that ammunition is made of metal, right? And that metal detectors detect ammunition?
NotMax
@Feathers
The Google graveyard is prodigious, a digital directory competing for extent with Jacob Marley’s chain.
Sure Lurkalot
@Chief Oshkosh: My neighbor has a Model 3. I’ve never asked him about it because he’s such a Musk bro that he’d say it was perfect in every way even if the wheels fell off.
My spouse wants an electric car in the near future but hasn’t done much research. His Prius has been having issues (supposedly repaired as of Tuesday) so I think he should start his research now just in case.
Baud
@Old School:
He’s so hard on the NYT.
jonas
@WaterGirl: Oh, ok. I didn’t know people called composite/plastic guns ghost guns too. I haven’t heard about a lot of shootings (at least in NY/NYC) committed with those, however. It’s always some stolen, untraceable semi-automatic pistol or gun someone built or bought on the street, it seems. Cities have been flooded with these things the past couple of years.
artem1s
@Martin:
I’ll be deleting mine as well but if companies don’t start taking the Twittler and FacePlant link off their websites, it won’t do much good. I don’t understand why any company would give them free ad space on their websites anyway.
WaterGirl
@RobertB: Listen to Biden’s speech on the new ruling and see for yourself.
balloon-juice.com/2022/04/11/president-biden-new-actions-to-fight-gun-crime-live-at-215-eastern/
Biden announces new rule on “ghost guns” aimed at preventing gun crimes
By Bo Erickson, Kathryn Watson
He even shows the box you can order it in during his speech.
RobertB
@RobertB: Boy is my face red. Right now serial numbers are not required by Federal law on personally manufactured firearms, or wasn’t until 4/11/2022.
But since I did actually bother to look, I can see where jsled above is coming from. The law says this:
“To help keep guns from being sold to convicted felons and other prohibited purchasers, the rule makes clear that retailers must run background checks before selling kits that contain the parts necessary for someone to readily make a gun.”
“parts necessary” is pretty nebulous. From what I can tell, dealers might have to run a background check before selling me a new stock or handgrip. Am I going to turn Republican if buying a new grip for my replica AR-15 bb gun gets to be a big PITA? No. But now there something to explain. “Joe Biden wants to make it illegal to sell bb guns!”
Professor Bigfoot
@WaterGirl: That’s not quite true. A ghost gun, where the lower is say, 3D printed, will STILL require a barrel and a spring and what’s known as a “bolt-carrier group”; all of which are made from hardened steel.
No serial number is the only thing that makes a “ghost” gun ghostly.
[ed: of course, several valued commenters got there long before me. ;) ]
WaterGirl
@Professor Bigfoot:
And that there’s no record of sale. And no background check needed. and and and….
Joe from Lowell
@Snowflake:
“As for them being a “problem”, a vanishingly small number of murders/shootings are committed using “ghost guns”. everytownresearch.org/report/ghost-guns-recoveries-and-shootings/. That’s right only 90 total incidents dating back to 2013.”
Why are you citing old statistics about a new and growing technology? This is like those wingnuts who talk about how many drone strikes Bush conducted, when they’re quite aware of the timeline of their development and growth.
“None of this matters of course to the anti-gun hysterics.”
Oh, I see. You’ve said that about Obama’s drone strikes, too, right?
Betty Cracker
A long time ago, I made a graphic to use with posts about gun issues:
Forgot to use it in this post, but it still amazes me how people who rarely if ever comment on any other topic come out of the woodwork to defend The Precious.
Professor Bigfoot
@WaterGirl: Right.
But they do show up on metal detectors and X-ray machines. :)
Kropacetic
Some people are just very concerned. It won’t change their vote, but…
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I’m a little surprised we haven’t been spammed with Musk fans yet.
Kent
First, eliminating ghost guns does make it marginally more difficult for people who are banned from buying weapons to obtain them (felons, abusers with restraining orders on them, etc.). It doesn’t make it impossible. Illegal guns are still easy to get. But it does make it somewhat harder.
Second, one use of ghost guns is to commit crimes and murder because they are untraceable. People will still get murdered, but if it is marginally easier to catch them if they use conventional guns because ghost guns are unavailable then that is an improvement.
RobertB
@WaterGirl: Yeah, I went back and looked at the ruling. justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-new-rule-modernize-firearm-definitions
Heck, I thought serial numbers on firearms was a requirement. Serial numbers on a firearm should be mandatory.
I still think “parts” is pretty vague there. If I was a Republican running for office I’d use it as a talking point. Make the other guy explain what “parts” means, if they can.
Kropacetic
Musk needs to up his flash mob game.
GoBlueInOak
@Baud: The build quality of Teslas is atrocious compared to the major auto manufacturers, esp the Japanese & Germans.
maroo
Isn’t that what philosophers call a tautology?
Sure Lurkalot
@Kropacetic: Alongside “it didn’t have to be thus” is it wasn’t always thus. My father worked for the same company his whole life and the company took measures to help him succeed and rewarded him for it. Even my first real job in the early 80’s as a grunt…had paid health insurance, education and training expenses, promotions from within. The landscape changed right about then (thanks, Ronald).
Executives didn’t make 500x what the average worker made and there was a greater concern for making lasting products and the customer that bought them. How long has it been since “the customer’s always right?”
Kropacetic
I remember long ago hearing about the possibility of making unique identifiable marks on fired rounds. Is that really a thing?
CaseyL
Twitter is most useful to me for seeing the latest on breaking big stories, with the usual caveat that early takes are 99% inaccurate. I also follow some folks, not many. It won’t break my heart to leave if Musk buys ’em, though I probably will keep reading the people I currently follow.
On e-cars, I am hoping to be able to keep my non-electric Scion running at least until I retire. Post-retirement, I keep playing with the idea of getting an RV and driving off into the sunset. So, I’ll want either an e-car that can tow an RV or an electric-motor RV. Both are on the horizon, so I’m optimistic about something suitable coming out in the next few years.
trollhattan
A ghost gun can be an AR-15 assembled from components, which Bush appointee judge Roger Benitez last summer declared “the swiss army knife of guns” and threw out the CA law restricting them. so we’re all Swiss, or something.
BTW one of the shooters in our closing time mass shootout two weekends ago had a pistol converted to full automatic, as one does when going out to the bars on Saturday night.
Joe from Lowell
While the resins used in 3D printing aren’t yet good enough to make a bottom receiver for an AR-15 that won’t crack after a few shots, they’re getting better every day. The prophets of ghost guns all describe that as their goal in their easily-found YouTube videos and social media posts. They openly gloat about soon being able to produce untraceable weapons that can get through metal detectors, even though they can’t yet make them.
The gun enthusiasts commenting on this thread already know this, and are doing that thing they do where they leave out part of the truth in a deliberate attempt to mislead, and hope they can get away with it, while doing that “Hush hush, you aren’t allowed to disagree with me because I’m Mr. Gun Mechanics Trivia Guy” shtick that they use to try to intimidate people out of arguing with them.
trollhattan
@Kropacetic: The tech exists and the NRA has fought tooth and claw to keep them from being required.
jonas
@mrmoshpotato: He’s already been sued by a Twitter shareholder for failing to disclose within the required time period that he had bought up more than 5% of Twitter’s shares, thereby keeping the share price low as he loaded even more. We’ll see where that goes.
What Musk is actually mad about is that the SEC nailed him a couple of years ago for mouthing off about stuff on Twitter that caused big swings in Tesla’s share price. This was apparently an insufferable infringement on his freedom of speech and he’s never gotten over it. Note to Musk: even if you buy Twitter and remove all speech restrictions, it will still be illegal for you to remain head of Tesla and play games with its share price.
Kropacetic
One thing we definitely could be more focused on is improving people’s upward mobility. Education helps here but adult education reform needs to move beyond “free four year university.”
Yes, that should be a piece. But there needs to be more promotion of unions, on the job training, trade school, making internships viable for people not already sitting on a load of money, etc.
The free four year uni bit leaves a lot of people feeling excluded. Let’s be more inclusive.
Kropacetic
@trollhattan: The tech exists and the NRA has fought tooth and claw to keep them from being required.
Let’s hire a couple more Dem Senators and publicly declare “FTFNRA.”
JWR
@Snowflake:
From your link:
So meh, no biggee, right? And vanishingly small? Hell, I don’t care if it’s 1 out of 10,000. They’re out there, and they kill, maim and rob, just like a “legal” gun.
ETA, looks like that one city had a lot more than 90 incidents.
Kropacetic
@Kropacetic: Couldn’t edit, but seriously, that’s the NRA advocating not for the rights of gun owners, but directly to protect murderers.
TonyG
@trollhattan: “Blake Masters”. Worst late-seventies gay porn star name ever.
jonas
@trollhattan: You may be thinking of so-called “smart gun” technology that requires a thumb- or fingerprint to unlock the firearm. Been around for a while, but the NRA has successfully beat back efforts by the Consumer Product Safety Commission and other regulators to require gun manufacturers to make it a standard feature. Good enough for your Iphone apparently, but not your Glock.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: “SocialistDogMom” Molly Conger cracked me up one time. She said the AR-15 got it’s name because every time she posts about this assault rifle there ARe 15 guys jumping into her timeline to explain it to her.
germy
Cawthorn gets the Onion Kelly cartoon treatment:
theonion.com/rock-out-with-your-caucus-out-1848793202
Sure Lurkalot
@Betty Cracker: I like!
I’d like to eliminate weapons like Kevin Uxbridge did the Husnock or render them impotent like the Metrons. Yes, I’m a naive as hell anti-killing machine hysteric.
Ruckus
@Joe from Lowell:
Yes they can, which is their whole point.
But. And it’s a huge, rotund, actual but.
In anything close range a .380 or a 9mm auto pistol will do a dramatic amount of damage and can create a lot of death. A subway car is all close range. That he didn’t kill anyone is pure, dumb fucking luck. That he could have done a lot worse is little condolence to those that he actually shot or shot at. Have you ever been shot at? I have. Twice. One wasn’t intentional. One was, I was walking down a street, in a town in this the USA. That I am still here is just my dumb fucking luck. Hearing, feeling that bullet go by is not a good feeling. Even just being within an inch of having my head blown off – one of those shots, is not a good feeling. I don’t have to read of a shooting to know this, I’ve had the good time of being close to death or life threatening injury at the supersonic travel of lead out of a pistol. You don’t want to trade this life experience with me or anyone else. I don’t want to see anyone else have to go through this because some fucking idiot has access to his warm and cuddly fucking pistol and bullets. It really, really, really isn’t a thing that anyone needs to have. Not as deadly – my fucking ass.
jonas
@Kropacetic: They’re advocates for the gun industry, full stop: protecting them from consumer product safety regulations, lawsuits, and helping promote sales by whipping their membership into a continual frenzy about threats to their precious 2A rights. They don’t give a shit about their members’ safety or public safety.
Gravenstone
@Baud: I think our designated Musk fangirl got banned a while back for getting a bit too into defending all things Elon.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@jonas:
A good friend who’s converted several cars to electric (one’s an old Miata, friggin rocket now) bought the eMustang and raves about it.
They require so much attention tho. Not in terms of maintenance, but there’s so much info provided, it’s easy to get overwhelmed.
I’ve got a couple of other friends who are really into cars and have the money to buy damn near anything short of a European exotic brand. They beat on Tesla’s build quality, very mediocre and reminds them of Big Three autos (in terms of build quality) from the 70s and 80s, meaning crappy.
Ken
The posts often get strangely… I dunno, semantic? “Ha, you called it a bullet instead of a cartridge, and a ghost gun instead of a type VII plastiform delivery platform so you’re wrong wrong wrong.”
scav
@Ken: Plus the mental gymnastics (updated minute by minute) involved in differentiating good gun owners that must be entirely unrestricted at all times and the bad gun users that must in no way never nohow reflect on good gun owners.
jonas
@Nicole: I thought that was pretty hilarious, too. Now I’m sure there were a lot of resources expended searching for this guy, but, yeah, he basically turned himself in.
NotMax
@TonyG
Dick Cummings.
:)
The Moar You Know
No such thing as “lucky”. A gunshot injury is crippling for life. Nobody talks about that.
It is a thing that absolutely needs to be talked about.
Baud
@germy:
Oh god, what if Musk buys The Onion. Then we are truly doomed.
Joe from Lowell
@Ruckus: Your ass is your own business.
What I wrote was true, whether it brings up bad memories for you or not.
If he had access to a an AR-15 or other assault rifle, there would have been multiple fatalities.
Peale
@mrmoshpotato: He’s taking it private. So no stock to plummet.
Ruckus
@artem1s:
That he took a pistol, at least 2 extended magazines, smoke grenades, a gas mask, into a subway car and tried to kill a lot of people should get him the death penalty if for no other reason, intent. Because there is no other intent possible. He wasn’t looking to scare people, he wasn’t looking to injure people. He may have been only asking for help, which he obviously needs, he still tried to take away a lot of lives. He tried to kill people. He shot people. At close range. In an enclosed space they couldn’t leave.
Kropacetic
@Baud: Satire died a few years ago. Maybe they need a good reason to stop trying to revive that corpse.
Off to work. Have a good day, folk.
Betty
@Gin & Tonic: Unbelievable. You thought your family was safe when everyone was out of Ukraine. Thank goodness your daughter didn’t have to go through that experience.
NotMax
@Baud
::rushes to trademark The Shallot::
:)
The Moar You Know
@RobertB: wrong on both accounts, unfortunately. Guns made before the 1960s don’t have serial numbers at all. When you register it, if you want to, you simply put on the form “N/A” for the serial. Not a problem.
Ruckus
@Joe from Lowell:
Fuck you.
My first line agreed with you.
And that means jack shit. Your comment attempted, meant or not, that he could have made it worse and he didn’t. Your comment, meant or not, was explaining that he was less responsible because he didn’t use a more powerful weapon. His intent was to kill people. There is no other conclusion possible.
Fuck you.
catclub
@Kropacetic:
I saw somewhere that the app is not fully functional in the US. I wondered if it IS fully functional in Russia.
Kelly
Building a ghost gun seems a lot harder than filing the serial number off a stolen gun.
Joe from Lowell
@Ruckus: Fuck you right back.
I don’t care if you suck at reading.
I don’t care about your widdle feelings.
I don’t even care enough to explain why you’re wrong and defend myself against against such stupidity.
You had nothing to call me out for.
The Moar You Know
@WaterGirl: Wow. No. That is not at all what Biden described, nor what a ghost gun is. Not at all.
But what would I know, only been shooting for 48 years.
Snowflake
@Ken:
People who are ignorant about a subject often think those with actual subject matter knowledge are pedantic.
People who believe that calling a firearm a “ghost gun” means that its metal components (and ammunition, apparently) cannot be detected by a metal detector have approximately the same level of knowledge as people who believe that the Covid vaccine contained components that could be tracked by 5G cellular towers.
There’s no shame in ignorance. Everybody is ignorant about different things. But there is shame is not understanding a subject, having strong opinions about it, and then refusing to acknowledge that you were wrong.
Or, even worse, belittling people who are actually correct in the name of fostering and protecting misguided group-think. As in: @Betty Cracker:
Joe from Lowell
@Ruckus: “Your comment attempted, meant or not…”
Among your other problems is that you don’t know what “attempted” means.
Your a mess. The murderer’s intent is all that matters, so we can’t talk about actual, materially-important factors that are literally life and death…
But the intent of another internet commenter doesn’t matter if you can imagine a really shitty misreading that somehow makes a statement about assault rifles being particularly dangerous into a defense.
Snowflake
@Kelly:
Exactly. 5 minutes with a dremel tool will remove serial numbers.
catclub
@jonas: All of this is apparently exactly what Musk wants twitter to be.
He obviously equates twitter limiting anything HE says as censorship.
Good luck with that.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Just my 2c and speaking as a gun owner who grew up around them; there is way to much fetishiation of guns like people do with Katanas on both sides and leads to all kinds of stupid shit.
Take the AR-15, unless you are into long range shooting WTF do want want one, they are high maintenance and not that good for personal defense. Ok, maybe “I have collection of every fire arm used by the Us military”, fine, but otherwise it’s just more magical weapon bullshit.
Same with “ghost guns”, again, why would you want to get one? Beyond you are Gansta LARPing like a suburban whiteboi.
And with otherside the failing is since the gun control advocates tend to see guns as possessed by evil spirits and not just tools it ends get absurd situations like were one can legally buy machine guns in Berkeley, California, of all places, because someone performed some silly ritual over them to “demilitarize” them.
lowtechcyclist
Not like anyone needs a ghost gun to hunt deer or wild turkey, or protect their loved ones from someone breaking into their home.
catclub
@NotMax:
How about “The Leek”?
Joe from Lowell
@Snowflake: People who don’t actually have any greater subject matter expertise like to use irrelevant semantic knowledge to pretend they do. At least the gun nuts.
It’s gotten very old, to the point of cliche, and doesn’t fool people anymore.
germy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
That’s certainly a bizarre talking point. Gun control leads to legal machine guns? That’s a new one for me.
Calling guns tools though, I’ve heard that one a bunch of times. “It’s just a tool!”
Peale
@scav: by the afternoon of the Brooklyn shooting, I was seeing posts on mainstream news outlet stories about how it was a false flag operation, probably done at the behest of the camera surveillance company to get a contract.
Sure Lurkalot
@Kropacetic: Good thoughts. The first company I worked for was at least interested in improving your expertise with a stated goal of retention. There was a recognition that turnover could be costly in terms of dollars, knowledge and good will. Now it’s a lot of any old peg will fill that empty hole. It’s also why many MOU’s think their money automatically imbues expertise, because fewer companies invest in it.
catclub
@Peale:
I have doubts this takeover will happen. Musk must be willing to blow tens of billions in value by taking it over and then doing things that will make it worse for anyone except Elon Musk. Also unpopular.
Although he has 83M twitter followers, there sure look to be more than 83M haters, as well. Given the response here.
ian
@Ruckus:
That is your opinion. Many others oppose the DP because it is inhumane, has serious moral hold ups, is selectively enforced (with minorities and disabled people more likely to be given the DP), and costs the criminal justice system far more than life imprisonment. I’m not sure of NY’s laws, but there is also a strong distinction between actual murder and attempted murder
Betty Cracker
@Snowflake: I didn’t say shit about gun composition, numbnuts. Just pointed out that lots of numbnuts who never participate in conversations about anything else jump in when the topic is The Precious. Your own presence proves my point. Now make like a Russian warship and go fuck yourself.
jonas
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’ve heard this too, particularly on models from a couple of years back. Musk was making them crank out product so fast that a lot of the build ended up effectively being duct tape and bailing wire — components falling off, breaking, wearing out quickly, etc. I gather that a lot of that stuff is better now, though, but I’m not sure.
Joe from Lowell
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: “Take the AR-15, unless you are into long range shooting WTF do want want one, they are high maintenance and not that good for personal defense.”
There is, of course, an answer to this. If you know a lot about firearms, you know what kind of shooting a semi-automatic rifle on a combat platform is good for:
Combat shooting, and massacres of crowds. The militia guys who buy assault rifles instead of bolt-action rifles because they want to be better-equipped for fighting “agents of the Deep State” aren’t confused. They’re correct.
The school shooters who choose an AR-15 aren’t picking the wrong tool for the job. They’re picking the right one.
a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio
An interesting angle on the Muskrat Twitter activity.
On the one hand, this may be too simple an explanation. On the other hand, or maybe in the other hand, we have Occam’s razor, ready to give this blowhard a close shave.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
There was one commenter here a few years ago (maybe he’s back under a different name) who called all the fuss over guns misguided. “A gun is an inanimate object!” was his logic.
I replied that bullets were certainly not inanimate, but I’m not sure he saw it.
catclub
@lowtechcyclist:
I would fully approve of NFT ghost gun sales.
Joe from Lowell
@Betty Cracker: “I didn’t say shit about gun composition, numbnuts.”
I just wanted to say, I noticed that he did that.
zhena gogolia
@Snowflake:
As the daughter of a murder victim, let me say fuck you very much.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker: I was waiting for that meme!
Gin & Tonic
Boy, these threads about guns certainly bring out the best here.
catclub
@a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio:
This sounds somewhat more plausible, except Musk already considers himself immune from regulation and laws, with pretty good past history to back him up. I think he could be selling now.
It is appalling that he can make $1/2B trading on his own influence.
OTOH, that is a small fraction of his net worth, so would he bother?
OTOOH Why not, if he can?
Doug R
@jsled:
NOPE.
Captain C
@Gin & Tonic: I’m glad she missed it. Those two stops are my main subway stations. Thankfully, I was working from home on Tuesday.
WaterGirl
@The Moar You Know: Did we listen to the same Biden speech?
Apparently I was wrong that ghost gun are not detectable – firing pins, etc apparently show up.
But Biden held up a box that you can buy with all the parts to put together into a gun.
I linked to the speech elsewhere in this thread in case you or anyone else wants to watch it.
hueyplong
Zoot alors! Was sure I’d see a pop quiz on clips vs magazines so as to cull those allowed to have an opinion.
catclub
There is some evidence that NOT having a long legacy of factories gives Tesla flexibility to make things in new ways. Look up their giant stamping machines.
James E Powell
@Gravenstone:
I never heard about this. I read this blog every day, but somehow I miss all the fun stuff.
lowtechcyclist
On another topic, if irony weren’t already dead, this would have finished it off, put the body through a woodchipper, and fired the remnants into the sun:
Snowflake
@Joe from Lowell:
Okay Joe – do you agree that “ghost guns” are not detectable by metal detectors?
Can you take one – with ammunition – through an airport metal detector without activating the metal detector?
lowtechcyclist
Oh, that’s easy. Try taking a clip with you to read while you’re on the john.
Snowflake
@Betty Cracker:
I didn’t say you you said “shit about gun composition, numbnuts.”
I said this:
And that’s what you did and what you continue to do.
Cameron
Christ, does every mention of guns around here turn into this sort of mess? Fuck it. I’ll take the cannoli every time, then.
hueyplong
It seems more and more likely that Biden and his blind followers here have offended and therefore lost a swing vote for the ’22 midterms.
Joe from Lowell
@Snowflake: We’re not having a conversation. I’m using you as a teaching aid, to point out the standard tactics you drones go around reciting, to make them less effective as you try to lie to people who aren’t garbage
Take your question, roll it up so that there’s a point at one end, and…
Baud
@Snowflake:
FWIW, this was the last line of your original comment.
So if there was any belittling, we learned it from watching you, dad.
FelonyGovt
Mmmm pie!
RobertB
@The Moar You Know: Yeah, I went down the rabbit hole and started reading atf.gov/firearms/docs/rulemaking/final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-frame-or-receiver-and-identificatio… . Now I have a headache.
Betty Cracker
@Snowflake: As others have pointed out, you started the name-calling right out of the gate, so don’t cry about it when people respond in kind. If you want slobbering gratitude for the steaming pile of horseshit you’re peddling, try wehuffcorditefarts.com.
ian
@hueyplong:
I sure hope nobody decides to vote based on what they read in a comments section of a blog…
Ya know, I was going to vote for candidate X, but Jimmy53 said mean things about something in a comment!
Mallard Filmore
@Joe from Lowell:
If he had brought an obvious, visible AR-15, that subway car would have been a lot less crowded.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
He could also try the NYT. I heard they just held a panel with folks talking about how they felt disrespected by society.
catclub
Has NOBODY remembered “The Day of the Jackal?” Crutches!
Baud
Too bad people don’t get as passionate about dumb restrictions on voting rights.
WhatsMyNym
@Snowflake
No, it only removes some metal.
“They stamp the serial number into the metal. Whenever metal is pressure stamped, not only does the metal have indentations of numbers, but the metal underneath the numbers contains resultant”
Article Source: EzineArticles.com/917211
Jojo
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, I keep getting emails begging me to join, at increasing levels of desperation, so it isn’t quite dead yet.
Ruckus
@ian:
I don’t disagree with you actually. And yes it is my opinion, not reality.
I’m not a death penalty person but someone who goes in a closed box (and yes I ride regularly in a subway, we do have them in LA) with a weapon such as he had, many, many rounds of ammunition, a gas mask and smoke bombs, and fires off 2 extended clips, is not trying to scare anyone or make a point. He is trying to kill. That it’s attempted mass murder rather actual mass murder means to me that he just bad at it, not that he should be excused from the fact that there is really no difference in my mind to his intent and his action. Was he just trying to injure all those people? We, as a people go through this all the time, that intent or the difference between intent and the totality of the action is more important than the possible lives he easily could have taken. And we go through this time and time again. I’m old, I’m tired of having events like this one, where the persons intent is more important than the number of injuries he caused with a firearm and that it is just luck that no one died. We have a problem in this country, a gun problem. I’d bet most of the people on this blog agree with that, even if they don’t think guns should be a lot harder to purchase or use. That some random person can shoot you and possibly many others, doing the most normal thing, going to or from work or the grocery store. This isn’t living, this is random survival or death, for no reason whatsoever. How do we stop this? How do you live in a world that may have someone with a deadly weapon and decide that today is your day, or someone’s day, or anyone’s day to die? Could be a drunk in a 2 ton car. Could be an insane asshole with a firearm in a subway car. But it’s OK because GUNS. Is someone’s right to have a gun more important than someone’s right to live? Why does this record keep skipping and all we do is fight about the right to continue letting some one do it, again and again and…..
trollhattan
@jonas:
I was thinking about microstamp technology, which is separate from smart guns that you correctly cite as another system the NRA hates.
Expended shells would show the gun’s specific stamp and except revolvers would be left at the scene of a shooting.
cain
Same here – I’m not going to be on a platform that allows nazis, and other folks because of “free speech”. There are already plenty of platforms of that nature (all which failed). But hey, if he wants to throw away his money – fine with me. We will disabuse him in any way we can.
Roger Moore
@artem1s:
It isn’t free. Twitter, Facebook, etc. pay the web site to put those buttons there, which is why they’re so ubiquitous. And the key is those buttons aren’t just buttons that let you share on the relevant website. They also let the company track you across sites so they can build up a behavioral advertising profile.
trollhattan
@hueyplong:
Which is just crazy, since magazines have mostly gone on line now!
“What is this, some kinda clip joint?”
“It’s a magazine stand, sir.”
.
Captain C
@lowtechcyclist: That sounds like an admission on the part of the Russian government that 1984 is a legit and accurate criticism of them.
Gravenstone
@FelonyGovt: Gettin’ a touch contentious in these parts, lately.
CaseyL
When I buy an electric car, it will not be a Tesla. I worked for a little while at an auto repair place, one of the few in the state certified to work on Teslas.
The cars are flimsy. They have sensors just under the skin all over, and the slightest fender bender means a bunch have to be replaced.
Parts are consistently hard to get. Bring your Tesla in for even a minor repair, and you’d better have alternative transportation for 6 weeks, at least. Most of the calls I got were people wanting to know why it was taking so long to get their car fixed.
You need a PIN to get in, and another PIN to start the damn thing. Forget one or both, the car shuts down just like a computer after you’ve tried too many times to log in. Then you have to call a Tesla shop to remotely unlock the computer.
I want a car that gets me from Point A to Point B, will not fall apart if someone speaks to it harshly, and won’t go into hibernation if I mess up a password.
Ruckus
@Captain C:
It isn’t?
ian
@Ruckus:
No one is trying to excuse his actions. We punish things differently depending on the outcome of the actions.
Lets take a different hypothetical example. Say some dude (or lady) decides to do this same thing. Gets all the gear, walks down the subway and *wham* gets nailed on the head by an alert cop. Do we still give him/her the death penalty?
Roger Moore
@Joe from Lowell:
I don’t think this was luck, or at least it wasn’t purely luck. You aren’t allowed to carry an assault rifle openly in New York, and they’re a lot harder to conceal than a handgun. So the would-be killer decided to use a handgun because it maximized his chance of making it to the subway without being caught. If he had been in a state where open carry was legal, he could have brazenly carried his assault rifle to the subway*. This is a good example of how important gun control laws are. They aren’t perfect, sure, but by making it harder to get the deadliest weapons, they can reduce casualties in a case like this.
*OK, maybe not given the color of his skin. Those open carry laws seem to be mysteriously selective that way.
Captain C
@Ruckus: It’s nice to see them admitting it, even tacitly.
TonyG
@jsled: “gun violence” in quotes. That’s impressive. Implying that the United States does not have a much higher rate of killings and maimings inflicted by guns than almost any other country in the world.
TaMara
@CaseyL: I enjoy my KIA, it’s been relatively problem-free for new technology.
cain
@CaseyL: I’ve owned a Tesla for a few years and I’ve never had this kind of trouble. Then again, I got my Tesla when it was still a struggling start up – and not the status symbol it is now. It was great to be part of a small group of enthusiasts. I understand it’s quite a bit different now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Joe from Lowell
@Roger Moore: Good point.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And if that doesn’t happen? Are there taksie-backsies?
Roger Moore
@jonas:
I think he’s thinking of microstamping, which would mark the brass as it’s fired. Since the spent casings are typically ejected and left behind at the scene, it would help police track the guns used in a shooting. I’m not sure how useful it would be in practice. I would think it would be pretty easy to deface the firing pin to make the microstamp illegible.
Gravenstone
@Roger Moore: Actually, I don’t think there are many subways in states with open carry. He’d have had to select a different venue to find his victims. Not that this has proven difficult historically.
sdhays
The discussion about “responsible gun owners” reminds me of one of the most insightful things I think I’ve ever read on the topic. It was a post by Ta-Nehisi Coates where he described the burdens of being armed:
It resonated with me because I think it’s clear that the vast majority of people who whine about infringement on gun rights don’t think this way about being a responsible gun owner. They don’t think they deserve to feel any burden by owning and carrying killing machines.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
This can easily be overstated. Yes, the legacy car manufacturers have a lot of money invested in tooling to make things a particular way, but they’re regularly replacing their old tooling, and not just because it wears out. They’re constantly upping their game, making things in new and better (or at least more cost effective) ways. When they don’t replace their old tooling, it’s usually because they know what they’re doing with it and have good control over their processes. It’s not a coincidence that Tesla is constantly criticized for the fit and finish of their cars. It’s exactly the kind of detailed, process-oriented thing that you only get right with long practice.
RSA
Off-topic etymology:
Geminid
I happened to read up on Israel’s gun laws last week. A citizen is allowed one firearm and 50 bullets. Empty shell casings must be turned in to by an equivalent number of bullets. A gun permit is required, and the applicant must pass a mental health evaluationto to get a permit and must periodically pass a new evaluation to keep the permit.
About 185,000 Israelis had private gun permits in 2013. That number declined to around 135,000 by 2019 when it started rising again. The total population in 2019 was about 8.5 million.
There are quite a few illegal guns in Israel, though, especially in Arab Israeli communities.
a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio
@catclub: I don’t know enough about investing at that level to do more than read those tweets & the comments and wonder.
But it holds together as a high-profile activity that might either make him money or increase his power/influence, so I can accept it as a reasonable explanation.
laura
@Joe from Lowell: school shooters who choose an AR-15 are picking the right tool FOR THE JOB- seriously, you wrote that like it’s a regular normal thing and not evidence of a deeply sick society? I cant even….
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
A company also has to have the desire to do whatever better. To improve the product, not just to sell bazillions of them. A large sum of money is invested, as I’m sure you know, in the tooling of an automobile, no matter it’s motive power and it takes a lot of coordinated effort from design to the product rolling (in this case actually) off the assembly line. As someone who has been involved for most of my life in manufacturing production tooling and some actual rolling products I’ve seen this up close. Without design/tooling/production/inspection and a constant concept of improvement and being better that doesn’t happen. And it’s not a straight line of “better”, it’s a process that takes time and constant effort from the top down. Tesla does a pretty good job at parts of it. But seemingly not at all of it. And that rests squarely on the shoulders of one person.
eversor
I feel the ghost gun ban and all gun bans are mostly stupid and foolish. This is a cultural problem first and foremost. With the internet and 3d printing you can make any sort of destructive device you want. Hell you can build massive bombs at Home Depot. You can write all the laws you want about it but that ship has sailed.
I think that the better path is social stigma. Take smoking, it’s just not really done anymore. Now esoteric types of tobacco are still above board. Turn it into something where revolvers, breach loading shotguns, and bolt action rilfes are above board and anything else if you are not .mil or law enforcement brands you as a whack job and that’s the best step forward. Just as cigs are trash, but nobody bats an eye at cigars or pipes or snuff.
Calouste
@jonas: What I remember from the insider trading training I had to take a few years back, the standard penalty was having to sell all the stocks you acquired in that way, and then being fined 3 times the profits. That should apply to Musk as well for all the Twitter stock he bought between when he should have announced his 5% stake and when he actually did.
Roger Moore
@eversor:
I’m sorry, but this is just nonsense. Yes, social stigma has played an important role in reducing smoking. But government action has been a huge part of it. People have stopped smoking in a lot of places because there are now laws against it. Beyond those laws, governments have spent money on anti-smoking campaigns that try to portray smoking as both dangerous and uncool. They’ve placed heavy taxes on tobacco products to discourage their use. The federal government specifically made tobacco use the one factor other than age that can be used in setting health insurance rates. And so on. Reduced tobacco use is a triumph of government intervention.
Roger Moore
@Calouste:
It’s not at all clear to me that Musk will realize windfall profits if he decides to sell his Twitter stock. The stock price jumped when people thought he might join the board, but it’s already given a lot of those gains back. If Musk decides to sell, they might all go away. If he feels the need to sell his stock quickly, the dump might be enough to cause the price to go down below where it was when he bought it.
lowtechcyclist
I was starting to respond along these lines, but I’m glad I checked first. You not only beat me to it, but you remembered some details I’d forgotten. :-)
Roger Moore
@lowtechcyclist:
One that I maybe should have included is that smoking rates have started to creep up when the government relaxes its anti-smoking ad campaigns. Oh, and that there are massive restrictions on when and how tobacco products can be advertised. Does literally anyone think smoking would stay at current rates if we undid the bans on smoking in specific places, eliminated special tobacco taxes, stopped anti-smoking ads, and let the tobacco companies advertise as much as they wanted wherever they wanted? Hell, I would guess that a lot of the “social stigma” attached to smoking is a direct result of the many ways the government has come out against it, and it would regain a lot of its previous acceptance if we reversed course.
lowtechcyclist
@Roger Moore: Agreed.
I remember the howls when they first banned smoking on plane flights of less than 2 hours. (If anything drove home to me the realization of just how addictive nicotine must be, this was it. WTF, you can’t manage two hours without your fix? Holy shit! It probably forced some smokers to acknowledge that they were well and truly addicted.) Then it became all flights under 6 hours, then all flights, period.
Smoking used to be allowed pretty much everywhere. Offices, restaurants, everywhere unless there was a fire hazard or something. It was considered rude for people not to have ashtrays out for company, even if the hosts themselves didn’t smoke. All that has entirely reversed, of course, and changes in the law were a big part of it.
billcinsd
@Baud: I’m more concerned about the people we lose to Republican lies, and tax cuts because I have no care for fearful centrists that I’m not related to
Roger Moore
@lowtechcyclist:
And lots of things that would be considered fire hazards today were ignored back then. The main one seems to have been anywhere pure oxygen was in use. But smoking while at the gas station was just fine. And there were plenty of things they appear to have considered to be fire hazards, since they required fireproofing chemicals on things like drapes and mattresses, but they refused to do anything about the obvious source of ignition.
debbie
Frank James lived in my town for a while, just a couple of miles from where I am. He lived even closer to a house that blew up after a couple of African American sovereign citizens tried making bombs. One apparently lost both hands.
I think this guy was simpatico with them, maybe even with that militia group that was freaking out all the white supremicists a few years back (named something like Not Fucking Around Anymore).
jsled
@bago: Serial numbers provide no value.
@Joe from Lowell: 33% of Dems are gun owners, even more on the right. It’s an extremely-common property and hobby in the US!
@MobiusKlein: building an AR from parts is quite safe, and very common.
@Joe from Lowell: 9mm rounds are ~3× heavier than 5.56 rounds, but they do impart more kinetic energy, true.
@WaterGirl: Would love to hear how tracing is ever useful. The problem with trying to ban “ghost guns” is that you’re trying to ban “trivial machining”, which of course is ridiculous and bad.
Rudi
@Joe from Lowell: The .223 NATO round is half the mass and 3 times the energy of a .40S&W. The KE is what does the damage, not necessarily the mass.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S%26W
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
It may have been massively overlooked but when I worked in a gas station 56 yrs ago, there was supposed to be no smoking and it was posted so. Of course it had nothing to with health, other than being near an exploding or on fire gas station, which of course really wouldn’t be all that healthy.