Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

The revolution will be supervised.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

Petty moves from a petty man.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

We do not need to pander to people who do not like what we stand for.

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Republicans do not trust women.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / More Trouble

More Trouble

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From The Murdoch Post:

More Trouble

Who wants to tell them? The NY Post is trying to make it sound like the judge who authorized the search warrant is a deep state liberal, but since he was appointed in 2018 when Republicans ran both the state and national governments, that seems…unlikely?

Also, more troubling news for Beige-Orange Beelzebub today:

(CNN) A federal appeals court on Tuesday signed off on a House Ways and Means Committee request to obtain former President Donald Trump’s tax returns from the Internal Revenue Service.

The ruling from the DC Circuit Court of Appeals is a blow to Trump, who has argued for years in court against releasing his tax returns to any investigators. A trial-level judge he appointed while president previously rejected his arguments in the case.

The Beast can appeal this ruling, so the returns aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. But still, it would be surprising if Bedminster dining facility cleaning crews haven’t already been dispatched to whisk away shattered crockery and remove dripping ketchup from the walls during today’s lunchtime shift.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

198Comments

  3. 3.

    Almost Retired

    I am in trial mode and haven’t had any time at all during the last three days to check the news or keep up with current events – nothing but work.  But I thought while I have a little down time I’d check in on BJ and elsewhere and see if anything interesting is up in the world and…….WHAT!?!   HOLY SHIT!?!!!!

  4. 4.

    Ken

    So the Post and Fox are saying we finally have the smoking gnu* linking Trump and every Republican senator in 2018 to Epstein?  And there’s a Federalist Society link as well? Excellent.

    * Pratchett reference.

  5. 5.

    Hildebrand

    This unfolding story just puts a smile on my face.  Doesn’t matter what the day at my desk has brought thus far – I open Balloon Juice, see there is a new wrinkle in the ongoing drama, and my day is immediately brightened.

    I like this timeline.

  6. 6.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    from the link:

    The majority opinion, written by Circuit Judge David Sentelle, said that Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal’s request for the records was within the scope of his committee’s inquiry, and the court also rejected Trump’s argument claiming that the request had a retaliatory motive, making it invalid.

    I remember Sentelle from the days of The Great Clenis Panic, when he was neck and neck with Royce Lamberth and… Silberman (?) as rubber stamps for nutty Larry Klayman and his fellow travelers

  8. 8.

    Edmund Dantes

    I mean we already know it, but if the supremes (I assume DC court of appeals rejects en banc request) grant cert on this appeal, they are really hanging their ass out.

    So I expect it to be granted as soon as the paperwork is filed.

  9. 9.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … Wonkette:

    It’s depressing to imagine another six years of Rubio’s Twitter shit posting and MAGA-courting rhetoric. However, this should lift your spirits: A new poll shows Rubio tied with his Democratic challenger, Rep. Val Demings. They each have 45 percent support and the poll was deliberately “weighted to reflect what would be the most pro-Republican electorate in recent history.” The poll also reflects a larger trend of Democrats outperforming President Joe Biden’s approval ratings.

    Democrats are already going on offense and plan to hammer Rubio for voting against the IRA, which is popular. Let’s make him answer for it. Let’s retire Rubio once and for all.

    +1

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  11. 11.

    oldgold

    2 things:

    1. This from Palm Beach Post on the day Reinhart was appointed a
    Federal Magistrate.
    “News of his appointment comes two days after his Reinhart’s wife, Assistant U.S. Attorney Carolyn Bell, was appointed by Gov. Rick Scott to the Palm Beach County circuit bench.“! (emphasis supplied). Sounds like a Republican.
    2. Trump has a copy of search warrant and what was taken as a consequence of the search, yet he had released it. Hmm.

  12. 12.

    MazeDancer

    Has Fox started demanding that they #ReleaseTheWarrant, yet?

    Guessing, no.

    It has taken a minute, but the media tweeters are, at least, starting to ask for it.

  13. 13.

    danielx

    But still, it would be surprising if Bedminster dining facility cleaning crews haven’t already been dispatched to whisk away shattered crockery and remove dripping ketchup from the walls during today’s lunchtime shift.

    I have to admit: it would be fun seeing a video of TFG throwing a toddler-level tantrum (with appropriate verbiage) and hurling plates.

  16. 16.

    Another Scott

    @danielx:

    I’m reminded of this, as told by Lisa Ryan at NYMag (from April 2019):

    In that section, Mueller revealed how Trump reacted to (unblinking) Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein’s May 2017 announcement that Mueller had been appointed to lead the special counsel. “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m fucked,” Trump said when he was informed of the news by now-former Attorney General Jeff Sessions, according to the report. For a president who sees himself as above the law, admitting that he’s “fucked” certainly isn’t a promise that he is — but it is nevertheless satisfying to hear him acknowledge that he’s not unimpeachable. We’ll revel in that moment for a while.

    The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceeding fine. – maybe Plutarch.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  19. 19.

    Spanky

    @danielx: No, no it wouldn’t. I don’t want to see another video of him ever again, unless he’s being perp-walked with a coat over his head.

  21. 21.

    Ken

    @Miss Bianca: In Telefon, the Frost poem was used to trigger the hypnotized deep-undercover Russian operatives. You’re right, the reference is obscure.

  22. 22.

    oldster

    @Another Scott:

    Quoted by Plutarch, definitely not written by him. (The poetic form dates from several centuries prior to him, and he quotes it as something familiar to his readers.) So, author anonymous.

  23. 23.

    Ken

    @Spanky: If we do get a perp walk, I hope the arresting officers remember (then-candidate) Trump’s own instructions for how to treat a suspect who’s been arrested.

  24. 24.

    Tom Levenson

    Of note: Federal magistrate judges are not appointed by the president, but rather by a vote of the federal  district court judges for the district in which they serve.

    So this judge was deemed by good enough to promote to the bench by a majority of 8 Trump and GWB appointed judges and 7 Clinton and Obama appointees. (Notably: there are three vacancies. I hope Biden nominates candidates forthwith.)

    The odds are that he’s a crazed bomb thrower determined to facilitate a judicial coup against the once and future POTUS are…low.  (Also too: his undergraduate degree is in civil engineering, not a discipline associated with wild-eyed liberalism.)

  25. 25.

    UncleEbeneezer

    “News — In early June, investigators made a rare visit to Mar-a-Lago seeking more info about material taken from the White House. The 4 officials, including Jay Bratt, chief of Counterintelligence & Export Control at DOJ, met w/ two of Trump’s attorneys. Trump stopped by briefly.

    Investigators asked to see where docs were stored. Trump’s attorneys took them to a basement room and they looked around before leaving. Days later, Trump’s attorneys got a letter asking them to further secure the room. Aides subsequently added a padlock, I am told.”

    So this potentially happened (and was likely in the works) even before the first 1/6 hearing…

  26. 26.

    Dangerman

    Epstein? Damn, that’s nice to wake up to news.

    Any chance such shenanigans would void the prenup and Melania can finally say “divotce and half, motherfucker”.

    gimmee coffee.

  27. 27.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ken: It wasn’t that so much – I grok the Frost reference – it was the description: Russian operatives are trying to *prevent* people from assassinating US government officials?

  32. 32.

    oldster

    @Tom Levenson:

    ” (Also too: his undergraduate degree is in civil engineering, not a discipline associated with wild-eyed liberalism.)”

    Although engineers are *way* over-represented among islamic terrorists operating in western countries.

    I mean: a vanishingly tiny number of Islamic engineers are terrorists. But a surprisingly large number of Islamic terrorists are engineers. There was a study about this some years ago by Diego Gambetta — first an article, then a book.

  33. 33.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Ken: Obscure?  It’s the first thing that comes to my mind where hear that poem.  But then, I am weird.

  34. 34.

    Ken

    @Miss Bianca: It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it, but IIRC there was something about detente and not wanting to damage relations. Also, they were being triggered by a rogue, not by the Russian government.

  35. 35.

    kindness

    I’ve gotten the impression that right wing media (and too much of the MSM) loves this Trump victimhood because President Uncle Joe was getting far too much good press.  And it was good press because it also forced Republicans to be against much of what common America wants.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    @Baud

    “Don’t get them mixed up. Those in the manila folders are for the tax department. The ones in the green folders are for the banks.”

    //

  40. 40.

    Bupalos

    @Another Scott: Thank you for this.

    I’m perfectly happy for Dems to try and run against Trump, against his stolen SC sniffing around in people’s wombs and restricting their rights, his gerrymandered state leges sniffing around our kids and classrooms, against his whole hey-remember-the-80’s white grievance whine. But we also need to run FOR the future. For the idea we can (AND ARE!!!) doing something about climate change, about expanding rather than restricting our human rights, about righting the wrongs of the past for a better future.

    We’re in the middle of a Big Fucking Deal win, and I’m a little putoff that all the talk today is back in the Trump cesspool, back to wrestling with that pig. Thanks for a little something else!

  41. 41.

    Skepticat

    How appropriate is it that Mar-a-Lago is being referred to as MAL? Very spot on. I don’t dare hope there may actually be consequences for TFG, but there’s a glimmer …

  44. 44.

    Betty Cracker

    In other news, Andrew Yang is still a blithering idiot:


    The less culty Republicans will probably land on a similar line — investigating Trump’s blatantly criminal actions only gives weight to his deep state lies! They used a similar rationale to excuse restricting ballot access, i.e., since Trump cultists believe Trump’s stolen election lies, we have to make it harder for everyone to vote.

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    @oldster:

    I mean: a vanishingly tiny number of Islamic engineers are terrorists. But a surprisingly large number of Islamic terrorists are engineers. There was a study about this some years ago by Diego Gambetta — first an article, then a book.

    This seems like a very likely case of “cum hoc, propter hoc”.  I am not 100% sure, but my impression is that Islamic terrorists in the West are primarily drawn from immigrants from relatively prosperous Arab families.  Given immigration patterns, that’s likely to include a lot of engineers.  It might be interesting to see why, for example, engineers are overrepresented relative to doctors, but I’m not too surprised to see they’re massively overrepresented overall.

  48. 48.

    trollhattan

    “Let’s take off the gloves and roll out the big guns. Where’s Eric?”

    You can smell the Coppertone flopsweat from here.

  50. 50.

    ian

    @kindness:

    that right wing media (and too much of the MSM) loves this Trump victimhood

    It is a perpetual search for the latest round of victimhood.  The grievance machine needs constant refueling.

  51. 51.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @NotMax: the blue folders are for the IRS, the green ones are for the property tax division, the red one are for the state tax department, the pink ones are for Melania.

  54. 54.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Another Scott:

    He would have been fucked, too, had it not been for the collusion of Republicans in the Senate and the House to go all-in to save him.

  55. 55.

    JoyceH

    @MazeDancer: I saw a lot of elected Republicans, including Josh Hawley, demanding that the FBI release the warrant.

    Well, the FBI doesn’t do that. BUT! As the subject of the search, Trump received a copy of the warrant and a list of items seized. So hey. Ask him to publish them.

  56. 56.

    oldster

    @Roger Moore:

    Oh, definitely — the link lies in patterns of education, not in something magically sinister about engineering.

    Developing countries often want to train a lot of engineers — god knows they can’t afford English majors. And people sent off for foreign degrees are often from the aspiring middle class — not the idly wealth sheik class, but the upwardly mobile class that is often a reservoir for dissatisfaction and rebellion.

    Yes, there are lots of sociological reasons that explain this curious fact that engineers are over-represented — that’s why there’s a whole book about it.  And the answer is *not* that courses in material science breed radicals.

    On the other hand, I wanted to point out to Tom L. that an engineering degree does not *immunize* you against radicalism, either….

  58. 58.

    Benw

    Have the Republicans started running out “Defund the FBI!” yet?

    Trump is orange LOL!

  59. 59.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @trollhattan:

    “Let’s take off the gloves and roll out the big guns. Where’s Eric?”

    LOL. Junior was… ‘busy’

    Grifterella doesn’t do much to any TV, does she? I don’t watch Fox, but I assume it would go viral if Madame would-be Royale deigned to do her affected whispery thing on camera

  60. 60.

    Nicole

    Oh, for fuck’s sake.  From the former Gov of NY: “DOJ must immediately explain the reason for its raid & it must be more than a search for inconsequential archives or it will be viewed as a political tactic and undermine any future credible investigation & legitimacy of January 6 investigations.”

    Shut up, Andy.  Go away.

    twitter.com/andrewcuomo/status/1556990308424028163

  63. 63.

    Mike S

    Republicans are screaming “unprecedented” because they wanted to maintain the rule that nothing a Republican president does should be punished. Nixon, Reagan and Bush the lesser all walked away from their crimes so why shouldn’t Trump?

  64. 64.

    jonas

    Hey NY Post, do you know who also had ties to Jeffrey Epstein? Oh, and to the prosecutor that let Epstein slide on charges of statutory rape? And then later became labor secretary? I’ll give you a minute to think…

  65. 65.

    Cameron

    @Bupalos: Here in Florida, I think there’s an opportunity to take down Rubio coming and going: he came out with a stupid statement about the FBI search and he voted against IRA.  I like Val Demings a lot, and I hope she kicks his ass.  Though I’d find it even more satisfying if Dems could find somebody to send Nosfraudatu back to his coffin in two years.

  68. 68.

    Cameron

    @Baud: But they do have a party position!  It’s “both sides are wrong, but they all mean well.”  Oh…you want a policy statement?  Can we get back to you on that?

  69. 69.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @oldster: OTOH and anecdotally, I have found that engineers can be surprisingly vulnerable to conspiracy theories.  I posit that engineers tend not to be comfortable with ambiguity (for solid professional reasons) and might be more likely to latch onto something that eliminates gray areas.

  71. 71.

    dmsilev

    @Benw:

    Have the Republicans started running out “Defund the FBI!” yet?

    Yes. Marjorie Taylor Greene started with that last night.

  73. 73.

    jonas

    @UncleEbeneezer: So this potentially happened (and was likely in the works) even before the first 1/6 hearing…

    Yes, this appears to be about Trump hanging on to classified documents even after he was supposed to have surrendered them back to the National Archives.

  74. 74.

    Miss Bianca

    @Benw: According to what I’ve read here, Marjorie Greene Taylor has already gone there.

    Yet another reason to point and laugh this morning.

  77. 77.

    Miss Bianca

    @rikyrah:

    It’s always “law and order”, “back the blue” and “blue lives matter” until white people start going to jail

    “What oft was thought, but ne’er so well expressed”, etc etc. Damn, Chris Evans is sharp. Going to have to steal that one for future use.

  78. 78.

    Josie

    @Ken: We may be the only two people on this blog to know that. As if I haven’t given it away, I’m a big Charles Bronson fan.

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA AHH A

     

     

    Tynisa Thee Cynical Gen X Witch Walker (@Kalarigamerchic) tweeted at 9:25 AM on Tue, Aug 09, 2022:
    This truly is gonna be a race to see who can sell who out the fastest for a plea deal now. Because  you know there is no honor among that lot of thieves. And 45 doesn’t give AF about anyone but himself. Its gonna be merciless the amount of folks thrown under his bus.
    (https://twitter.com/Kalarigamerchic/status/1557010287659720705?t=XjLgh7zKnabMV1NqVta23w&s=03)

  87. 87.

    Betty Cracker

    @rikyrah:

    TJ tweet: Everybody should understand that the search warrant at Mar-a-Lago wasn’t just about recovering missing documents that Trump was possessing & didn’t return to the National Archives. The raid happened because Trump was doing something with the information.

    That occurred to the mister and me yesterday while watching the festivities unfold on TV. If it was incriminating stuff, he’d have just torn it up and flushed it. If it was stuff he couldn’t monetize or use in some way, he’d say “oopsie” and return it (and apparently did for some of the original haul).

    Maybe he’s using classified info to blackmail a person who might testify against him. Could be he’s selling the nuclear codes. Could be anything.

  91. 91.

    HumboldtBlue

    “Hunter Biden watched the raid, live on his laptop.”

    @MisterForkbeard:

    What are they even trying to say here? That Trump is winning the PR war?

    Yup. The mockery in the comments is delicious. That’s where I snagged the Hunter quote.

  92. 92.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty Cracker: my thinking is if trump has access to these documents, anybody with enough cash has access to these documents– the Saudis, oligarchs of all stripes and nationalities, companies with ties to the Chinese gov’t, If trump has access, Jared has access. Hell, Kimberly Guilfoyle has access

    ETA: Maybe he’s using classified info to blackmail a person who might testify against him.

    hadn’t thought of that. “You know, Mark, I have notes, notes that you made, that could go very badly for you…”

  93. 93.

    Mike E

    @Nicole: WindUpBird

    @MickieMo

    Replying to

    @andrewcuomo

    Don’t be fooled by this. Andrew Cuomo is under investigation by the feds for claims of harassment. This statement is purely self-serving.

    9:19 AM · Aug 9, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

  94. 94.

    stinger

    @Ken: Sorry to be picky, but it was “Woman, man, person….”  If the incarnadine idiot’s words are going down in history, they should be quoted precisely.

  96. 96.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I haven’t followed every twitter link, but it seems to me that Lindsey Graham was surprisingly muted in his response, now this

    The search of Donald Trump’s personal safe in an unprecedented federal search at the former president’s Florida compound was “fair game,” former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said in an interview Tuesday morning.

    Christie and Lindsey know more than most. I imagine they both walked away from a lot of conversations. “I don’t want to hear about that”

    Not that they both won’t scamper back to trump and stand on their hind legs for num-nums if The Beast comes through

  97. 97.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Roger Moore:

    Given how helpful he’s being to the Republicans, you might even call [Yang] a useful idiot.

    Even that’s being too kind. He’s clearly thrown in with them here, regurgitating their party line, rather than making any attempt to clarify things for anyone dumb enough to still care what he says, the way someone at least pretending to be an intellectually honest centrist theoretically should.

  98. 98.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I mean, who knows? Thinking of the dumbest possible scenario, what if Trump couldn’t bear to return something that was particularly meaningful to him (a Kim Jong-Un mash note in which he was addressed as “your excellency,” perhaps), so he paid some shady character to forge a fake copy and returned that instead? And the DOJ just decided to play hardball and raid his shitty resort for the original? I feel like literally nothing is too stupid to be a possibility!

    If it turns out to be something like that, I’m okay with it because, damn it to hell, no one is above the law. But I think it’s far more likely that there were documents he could peddle for money or use to blackmail people.

  99. 99.

    Roger Moore

    @jonas:

    Yes, this appears to be about Trump hanging on to classified documents even after he was supposed to have surrendered them back to the National Archives.

    It’s hard to imagine the FBI getting this excited about those boxes unless there’s something more there.  Either they discovered there are more, undisclosed documents, or some of those documents are extremely important, or both of the above.  It’s hard to believe they’d go this far for something mundane.

  100. 100.

    HumboldtBlue

    Breaking: FBI comments on unannounced raid on the suspected head of a major crime syndicate. “We don’t tell criminals that they will be raided in advance,” said FBI investigator Captain Fucking McObvious. “Especially those with a history of hiding evidence by eating it.”

    The comments and quips are just so much fun to read, and it’s only Tuesday!

  101. 101.

    Nicole

    @Mike E: Andy Cuomo, self serving?  Say it ain’t so!

    You know, if I were under Federal investigation, I might choose to put my head down and stay quiet if one of my fellow borough natives was raided by the FBI, rather than trumpet the unfairness of it all.

  102. 102.

    Roger Moore

    @rikyrah:

    Trump will not cop a plea.  Doing so would require admitting fault, and he will not do that no matter what.  He’d rather have his day in court to air his grievances than admit he might have done something wrong.

  103. 103.

    JMG

    Here’s a guy who was famous for not reading ANYTHING put on his desk. It would be an appropriate Trumpian comedy if he thought he was purloining useless stuff like proclamations of National Daffodil Day he could sell on his website and wound up taking supersecret stuff by accident. The lawyer who vetted the documents the first time discovered ’em, and Trump said to hide them.

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty Cracker:

    what if Trump couldn’t bear to return something that was particularly meaningful to him (a Kim Jong-Un mash note in which he was addressed as “your excellency,” perhaps),

    I think it was a Washington Post reporter who said on MSNBC last night that said mash note might well be one of the documents in question. I’m sure he wants it for his museum, or whatever.

    I remember a story about Schumer visiting the Oval Office and trump insisting that he read that letter, but then he put it back in a drawer, or something. Always surprised me he didn’t release it. He’s such a weird little man, on top of the violence, the brutality, the corruption… he’s just fucking weird.

    Reminds me of when he used to brag about how much Putin liked him. “He sent me a gift, a beautiful gift,” but to my recollection never said what was supposed to have been.

  106. 106.

    Ksmiami

    I think the PTB knows what’s in those docs and saw intelligence that prove Trump gave/sold information to our enemies. That is most likely why the judge was compelled to sign off. It isn’t just criming- it’s a grave national security issue.

  107. 107.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Reminds me of when he used to brag about how much Putin liked him. “He sent me a gift, a beautiful gift,” but to my recollection never said what was supposed to have been.

    It’s a dacha in Russia. Or rather the deed to a dacha that doesn’t actually exist.

    Or maybe one of those certificates for a square inch of land in Scotland that supposedly makes you a “laird”.

  108. 108.

    Roger Moore

    @Betty Cracker:

    Could be he’s selling the nuclear codes.

    IIRC, that information would be completely stale, since the actual codes get changed with the administration.  Some of the other stuff in the nuclear football- the attack plans and list of secure places they might take the President- isn’t changed as quickly, but it’s stuff our enemies can probably figure out for themselves.

  109. 109.

    Steeplejack

    Twitter is loading slowly for me. I wonder if it is breaking down under the weight of some new revelation. 😺

  110. 110.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Roger Moore:

    It’s almost as if “law and order”, “back the blue”, etc. are really about perpetuating systematic racism rather than rule of law.

    When Nixon ran on “law and order” back in 1968, there’s no question that it was about keeping Those People in their place, with a side helping of hippie-bashing to round things out.

    Plus ça change, and all that.

  111. 111.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: IIRC, Trump also skipped town with the letter from President Obama that was left in the Resolute Desk on 1/20/2017, following the tradition of outgoing presidents leaving a letter for successors.* He was later compelled to return that. I can imagine the response, “But it was addressed to meeeeeee — it’s miiiiiiine!”

    *I’m also assuming Trump left no letter for Biden. Can you imagine? Hahahaha!

  114. 114.

    Another Scott

    @Roger Moore: A good friend in (engineering) grad school was from Iran.  He said engineers have higher social status in Iran than physicians, lawyers, etc – the careers at the top of the pecking order in the USA.  It may be common in the Arab world as well.

    So, that may be part of it, also too.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  115. 115.

    Roger Moore

    @lowtechcyclist:

    The way I usually say it is that “law and order” means perpetuating the social order under color of law.  One of the things I find infuriating is police trying to enforce social order by continuing to arrest people for breaking laws that are no longer on the books.  They just don’t care what the actual law says.  They’re trying to perpetuate the old social order, and they know just how harassing an arrest can be even if it won’t hold up.  And they’re allowed to continue to get away with it because the organization as a whole supports that goal.

  118. 118.

    Old School

    @stinger:

    Sorry to be picky, but it was “Woman, man, person….”  If the incarnadine idiot’s words are going down in history, they should be quoted precisely.

    If we want to be precise, then it was “Person, Woman, Man, Camera, TV.”

  121. 121.

    Soprano2

    This is hilarious, how the “law and order” people aren’t so “law and order” when it’s their guy who is being subjected to the law.

    In other news, I had my stress test yesterday. In internet parlance “1 star, DO.NOT.RECOMMEND.” LOL I was all ready to do the treadmill, but because I have left bundle branch block they said they had to do the chemical thing instead. I didn’t like it at all! They inject you with radioactive stuff, then you wait 45 minutes, then they take pics of your heart. After that, they do the heart stress. It’s weird having someone inject stuff into your veins that makes you heart beat fast. It’s not like adrenaline, either – it’s different. My lungs felt weird until last night – like they way they hurt when you breathe in really cold air in the winter. Then I had to wait 45 more minutes, and they took images of my heart again. I hope I never have to do that again!!! I won’t really know anything until I get the echocardiogram, and that’s not until the end of September. I hope it ends up being nothing.

  123. 123.

    Tarragon

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m in that world.  Engineers also have a tendency to argue details which leads to “I know better than you”. There’s also a lot of “I have mastered a hard subject, therefore I have mastered all hard subjects I have considered”

    Both lead to conspiracy theories.

  124. 124.

    Redshift

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve seen mention of fifteen boxes of documents, which fits with the idea that he had been asked to return the documents and refused or didn’t comply in the time allotted. (That’s also the answer for the idiot wingnuts who are going on about “why did Hillary get such easy treatment instead of getting raided?” — because she turned over everything that they asked for, duh.) The story about the inspection to make sure they were secure enough also fits with that.

    From what I’ve read, they were shown the basement room previously, but the search was for his office safe. And we’ve heard reports that there were documents that are so secret their titles cannot be mentioned in an unclassified setting, so that may be the new thing that made it search-warrant worthy.

    Former FBI agent Asha Rangappa floated the idea that the source was one of the secret service agents there, eager to prove that they’re not Trump loyalists after the text message debacle.

  125. 125.

    JoyceH

    @Betty Cracker: ​
     

    *I’m also assuming Trump left no letter for Biden. Can you imagine? Hahahaha!

    Actually he did. I believe it was published. It was so moderate and non-controversial, I assume a staffer actually wrote it.

  127. 127.

    JoyceH

    Okay, here’s my theory – we have a human source in the Kremlin. Source sent in a cellphone pic he took of a photocopy of a document from Putin’s files. Our intel knows that Trump had access to the original of the photocopy. They’re looking for the original to see if it has the same Diet Coke can stain that the photocopy shows.

  128. 128.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Redshift: Former FBI agent Asha Rangappa floated the idea that the source was one of the secret service agents there, eager to prove that they’re not Trump loyalists after the text message debacle.

    I’m gonna believe it was Tiffany until it’s proved otherwise.

    Someday, Tiff will have a Lady Olenna moment where she’ll tell Jared or Junior or maybe even the old man: Tell Ivanka. I want her to know that it was me.

  129. 129.

    Redshift

    @lowtechcyclist:

    When Nixon ran on “law and order” back in 1968, there’s no question that it was about keeping Those People in their place, with a side helping of hippie-bashing to round things out.

    That’s the only thing running on “law and order” has ever meant in this country. That’s why it’s useless to point out hypocrisy about it; they’re only violating the literal meaning of the words, not the spirit and tradition.

    (Sometimes people who run on “public safety” are sincere. The “and order” is the dead giveaway – it means everyone knows their place and stays in it.)

  133. 133.

    Ken

    @JoyceH: I posted a similar theory in an earlier thread.  As I understand it, they wouldn’t have to rely on the coke can stain, though — each copy of such a classified document has a unique identifying number.

  134. 134.

    Redshift

    @Betty Cracker:

    I can imagine the response, “But it was addressed to meeeeeee — it’s miiiiiiine!”

    He told us over and over again that he thought everything connected to the presidency belonged to him, as if he’d just bought a family business (or more likely, a Family business) headquartered in the White House. Nothing will ever convince him that any of this belongs to the people.

  135. 135.

    Martin

    Today is a great live example of “There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

  136. 136.

    JoyceH

    @Redshift: ​
     

    He told us over and over again that he thought everything connected to the presidency belonged to him,

    Heck, he even thought PEOPLE belonged to him. “My generals”. Sheesh, did any other president talk about ‘my generals’?

  137. 137.

    bbleh

    @Tarragon: Well you would say that wouldn’t you? All you herb-and-spice people, you just think you’re better than everyone because it just grows and nobody designed it.

  138. 138.

    Betty Cracker

    @JoyceH: You are correct — just looked it up, and Biden said it was “generous,” so a staffer definitely wrote it. Huh. Wonders never cease!

  139. 139.

    JanieM

    @Cameron:

    Sorta like the intro to Ben Casey, but for morons.

    Heh, haven’t thought about that for years. Reminds me of the great junior high girls’ controversy: which is better, Ben Casey or Doctor Kildare?

  141. 141.

    jonas

    @Roger Moore: Agreed. This isn’t some interagency spat over classification processes. I think he secretly held on to top secret national security documents and then lied to the FBI about having turned everything over. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, that may or may not become something he’s criminally indicted for (although he easily could be), but where it gets interesting is if he was going around leaking details of those documents to unauthorized people, which wouldn’t surprise me because he’s a braggart and a moron. Remember, this is the guy who revealed the existence of one of Israel’s most top secret anti-terrorism operations to the Russian ambassador *in the Oval Office*. So yeah, wouldn’t surprise me a bit to hear that he was blabbing to some golf buddy at Mar-a-Lago about a new secret Air Force spy plane or something.

  144. 144.

    HinTN

    @Omnes Omnibus: Conspiracy theories only eliminate gray areas if you’re bug fuck crazy,  IMHO. OTOH, you’re not wrong about engineers being easy marks for this shit. I’ve worked with some.

  147. 147.

    HinTN

    @Omnes Omnibus: Conspiracy theories only eliminate gray areas if you’re bug fuck crazy,  IMHO. OTOH, you’re not wrong about engineers being easy marks for this shit. I’ve worked with some.

  148. 148.

    Geminid

    Maybe the prevalence of engineers among Arab terrorists is due to the imbalance between young engineering graduates in many of those countries with job opportunities in that field. That might create bitter alienation towards “the system” that could be exploited by recruiters.

  149. 149.

    Tarragon

    @bbleh: I started to write a response in character, but you know what. Work from home has really shown me how much happier I am to be out of the cube farm and not dealing with that every day.

  150. 150.

    CaseyL

    Whatever Trump took with him is a couple of years old.  Some classified materials might still be valuable to a buyer, but what strikes me is the possibility that someone, or someones, still embedded in Defense, State, and DHS is giving him new stuff.  New classified materials would be even more valuable to a buyer.

    That could be what really lit the fire under Archives and Garland: seeing classified information dated after Trump left office.

  154. 154.

    Layer8Problem

    @HumboldtBlue:

    [Rich Lowry] . . . this is his best day in pursuit of the 2024 nomination in a long time

    In related news, this is also good news for John McCain.

  155. 155.

    Mallard Filmore

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    since Trump cultists believe Trump’s stolen election lies, we have to make it harder for everyone darkies to vote.

    How many millionaires have to wait in line an hour or more to vote?

  164. 164.

    PAM Dirac

    @CaseyL:

     

    That could be what really lit the fire under Archives and Garland: seeing classified information dated after Trump left office.

    That seems as plausible as any other speculation that has been thrown out, but the very scant information that all the speculation is based on does point out how tight this operation has been. As far as I know the first the public knew about it was when the orange fart cloud started whining about it. I don’t know if the DOJ has even publicly acknowledged it yet. So let me add my own speculation that part of the “delay” in action from DOJ was not only gathering information, but assembling a team that could be trusted to pull off operations like this without a whisper of advanced warnings. I doubt everyone in DOJ/FBI fits that description, so it would take a bit of time to check to make sure you don’t have leakers. I also suspect that this operation might have been only the first operational test. I suspect drumpf and his fellow traitors are a little bit queasy about the fact that DOJ has not only shown that it can act, but it can do so without any advanced warning from sympathetic insiders.

  168. 168.

    Old School

    New York Times Pitchbot
    @DougJBalloon

    Trump’s savvy decision to get raided by the FBI is already paying big political dividends.

    by Chris Cillizza

    12:36 PM · Aug 9, 2022

  178. 178.

    Subsole

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The fact he didn’t like any sort of animal whatsoever was a giant, flashing, crimson warning sign.

    He is exceedingly, cripplingly needy. I genuinely cannot believe anyone looks at him and honestly thinks to themself, “Yes. This is the kind of strong, virile masculinity I aspire to.”

  183. 183.

    Nettoyeur

    @Soprano2:  Law and order politicians who disdain defendant rights are quick to assert the same rights when they are in the dock.

  184. 184.

    cain

    @Geminid: I read an article – due to how the culture works (and it kinda works like that in India) if you don’t have a job, you don’t get married… and because that’s a problem they got nothing and so I think the fact there is no movement in their lives and probably coupled with sexual frustration – well – men gotta terror

  185. 185.

    topclimber

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sen. Tim Scott of (R-SC) joins Lindsey in a tepid reaction, while Glenn Youngkin keeps the outrage to a similar minimum.

    Not only are the rats abandoning ship but we are running out of rats. (See Rat Replacement Theory).

  187. 187.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:

    “Andrew Yang is still a blithering idiot.”

    One sometimes wonders how some people get in any position other than say, garbage truck window cleaner, and once again we see that Andrew Yang applies for the job.

  188. 188.

    Feathers

    @cain: First really alt right Nazi guy I knew was a friend of a friend who was temping in an office where I worked. He just unloaded on me one late night working. He had been a journalism major, but couldn’t get a journalism job, but look at all the people who just were able to walk right in, wink, wink. I was so fascinated I just sort of listened. This was Boston in the mid 90s, so really rare. The thing that was crazy was I had grown up in the DC area with many Washington Post folks being friends of my parents and parents of my friends. I went to an elite college and had friends who went on to journalism. One won a Pulitzer. This guy was from the Panhandle and had scraped by at a second tier Florida State College. Not to say that a good journalist couldn’t come out of this school, but this guy really thought that having the degree would set him up for success in the field. He had zero fire, zero curiosity. Reminded me of a journalism major from Northeastern I met at a party who I had to explain what a primary election was.

    Anyways, I had started there as a temp, so I went to the person in charge of temps and learned that there was no danger of him lasting beyond the week. Come to think of it, he was part of the HK film fan crowd, so probably a match for the online anime dudes a month later. Now I wish I remembered his name.

  189. 189.

    Burnspbesq

    The Beast can appeal this ruling

    Technically, no. He can petition the Supremes for a writ of certiorari, which they have nearly complete discretion to grant or deny. If six of them have a lick of sense, they will treat this case as the toxic waste it is.

  194. 194.

    sab

    @Dan B: Yikes. Years ago my accounting firm ( years before I worked there) had a dentist client who shot up a dinner party at his house (killing his wife and some friends) after his partner caught him embezzling. His daughter and her best friend survived by jumping out a window. Las Vegas is an interesting place.

    Not to besmirch the profession but they do like to shoot elderly lions.

  195. 195.

    sab

    @Dan B: Veterinarians have a high suicide rate because they can’t always help and their clients ( the people) don’t care.

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