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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: Modern Journamalism, A Primer

Open Thread: Modern Journamalism, A Primer

by Anne Laurie|  January 18, 20231:29 pm| 62 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Our Failed Media Experiment, All Too Normal, Riveted By The Sociological Significance Of It All

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12 dirty little secrets of journalism. A thread:
1. When a reporter writes a warm human-interest story about a politician, it’s often an attempt to soften up the pol to get a better story later. Stories that make pols look good are known in the business as “beat sweeteners.”

— Mark Jacob (@MarkJacob16) January 10, 2023

Ex-editor at Chicago Tribune & Sun-Times, now allowed to have opinions:

2. Sometimes an anonymous source in a news story is the main person the story is about.

3. When journalists use the phrase “observers say,” it sometimes means they didn’t get anyone on the record but thought it was true, so they put the idea out there anyway. The “observers” might be anyone — lobbyists or drinking buddies.

4. When a public figure makes an accusation against another public figure but offers no evidence, responsible journos hesitate to repeat it. But if they can get the accused to deny it, they’re comfortable reporting it — even with no evidence.

5. When news outlets write “Inside” headlines (such as “Inside Kari Lake’s war room”), it often means they didn’t find a new fact worthy of a headline, so they teased instead. An “Inside” headline is a red flag that the reporting was disappointing.

6. When a news organization is making a politician or party look bad, it often jumps at the chance to overplay anything that makes the other side look bad so the news org appears unbiased. Republicans benefit from this, since they’re more corrupt.

7. The overuse of unnamed sources is subject to severe abuse. I once caught a reporter trying to describe the same source in three different ways, which would’ve made it appear to the reader that there were three separate sources.

8. Some officeholders offer exclusives to reporters under the condition they not interview anyone else before the story runs. The officeholder might say this protects the scoop, but it also ensures the story has only the officeholder’s spin.

9. Politicians successfully influence execs of media outlets simply by calling them. That’s because too many news execs want to be seen as powerful figures themselves rather than embrace their legitimate role conducting oversight of the powerful.

10. “How” and “Why” are often put in headlines to make stories seem savvy. NYT’s headline “How the Worst Fears for Democracy Were Averted in 2022” could have been “The Worst Fears for Democracy Were Averted in 2022.” But “How” made it look smarter.

11. When news outlets cite polls commissioned by political campaigns, they’re partners in spin. If the campaign didn’t like the poll results, it wouldn’t share the poll. It’s possible the campaign did several polls and shared just one.

12. Why do we hear from the same “experts” all the time on the news? Because it’s easier for the journalists, who don’t have to find and vet new people. The scandalous lack of diversity in media is often a matter of newsroom convenience.

I, too, dislike question-mark headlines. People don’t come to news websites to get questions asked — they come to get questions answered.

— Mark Jacob (@MarkJacob16) January 12, 2023

I would add a 13th. Starting a rumor of a possible investigation with a well-connected source in the morning so that it spreads on the grapevine, allowing you to “confirm” the existence of the rumor among “multiple sources” later in the day.

— Ed Cafasso (Post-Tribel-Mastodon) (@edcafasso) January 11, 2023

Meanwhile, for the rising generations…

the US could embrace improved media literacy education like Finland to help kids prepare for a world full of propaganda, but of course this is always going to be the response from the folks creating the propagandahttps://t.co/bSdWxJrW5V

— Karl Bode (@KarlBode) January 13, 2023

meanwhile, in Finland:https://t.co/N92l9wNQXx

— Karl Bode (@KarlBode) January 13, 2023

A huge part of countering propaganda involves creatively funding actual journalism and shoring up lagging education standards in the age of information warfare, but we're of course going to do neither of those because they don't make rich assholes money

— Karl Bode (@KarlBode) January 13, 2023

media scholars like the great @VWPickard then pop up and note how a cornerstone of fighting propaganda is actually publicly funding journalism, forging creative new journalism models, and paying journalists a living wage. At which point we do…the exact opposite.

— Karl Bode (@KarlBode) January 13, 2023

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    62Comments

    1. 1.

      UncleEbeneezer

      January 18, 2023 at 1:33 pm

      Exclusive: Special Counsel has questioned several officials about Donald Trump’s handling of Russia probe papers. Trump’s conduct in that regard likely will play a role in any decision by prosecutors to charge Trump, say people close to the investigation.

      On the eve of Donald Trump’s last day in office as President, Trump sent a memo to his attorney general, and also the directors of National Intelligence and the CIA, directing them to declassify thousands of pages of highly classified government papers pertaining to the FBI’s investigation into the Russian Federation’s covert intervention into the 2016 US presidential election to help elect Trump and defeat Hillary Clinton.

      But Trump was stymied in his efforts to make the records public, leading the outgoing president to rage to aides that the documents would never see the light of day.

      Now, sources close to Special Counsel Jack Smith’s investigation tell me that prosecutors have questioned at least three people about whether Trump’s frustrations may have been a motive in Trump taking thousands of pages of classified papers from the White House to Mar-A-Largo, in potential violation of federal law. One of those people was compelled to testify before a federal grand jury, the sources say.

      The sources say that prosecutors appear to believe the episode may be central to determining Trump’s intent for his unauthorized removal from the White House of the papers.  Insight into the president’s frame of mind—his intent and motivation, are likely to be the foundational building blocks of any case that the special counsel considers seeking against Trump.

      Towards that end, the Special Counsel has zeroed in on conversations and communications between the Justice Department, the White House counsel, then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, other then-senior White House aides, and Trump, in the final days—and even the final hours of his presidency.

      …

      Reply
    2. 2.

      Baud

      January 18, 2023 at 1:35 pm

      Another rule: The NYT is garbage.

      Reply
    3. 3.

      Jim, Foolish Literalist

      January 18, 2023 at 1:38 pm

      the question mark headlines are tied to/part of a political strategy. We used to call them Cavuto Marks here in the lefty internet, I think Cavuto is considered never-trump-ish now. I don’t even know if he’s still with Fox.

      but the “just asking questions” strategy becomes a prove-the-negative standard. “Why can’t Hillary Clinton prove there was nothing incriminating in those emails?” That’s what they’re trying to do with Biden’s 20 sheets of classified paper. “Did Hunter Biden have access to these documents?” I don’t think it will take for various reasons, but I’m an optimist sometimes less than totally cynical about my fellow Merkins.

      Reply
    4. 4.

      Baud

      January 18, 2023 at 1:40 pm

      @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

      Another tactic I saw this morning is to use adjectives and descriptive words instead of actual reporting.  Kristen Welker this morning talked about the “growing firestorm” about Biden’s emails.  Inflation is at “historic” highs.  Etc.

      Reply
    5. 5.

      CaseyL

      January 18, 2023 at 1:42 pm

      I love to see grassroots/non-profit journalism, and am over the moon about how much of I see, thanks to Mastodon and this place.

      But that’s also part of the problem: true journalism has become a niche, and the people we desperately need to reach just aren’t going to go with the niche publications/websites. SFAICT, these outlets are reaching the people who already agree with them.

      I have to say, though, that outside of big ongoing stories and breaking stories, I don’t pay much attention to the MSM at all.  No, I take that back: to the extent I do pay attention, I know they operate out of laziness and bad faith, so whatever “take” they put forth I simply assume is, at best, inaccurate (and, at worst, a self-serving lie).

      Reply
    6. 6.

      lowtechcyclist

      January 18, 2023 at 1:47 pm

      Another rule: anytime a story or header says “Congress” is responsible for doing X, or blocking Y, they’re covering for the Rethugs.

      Reply
    7. 7.

      Baud

      January 18, 2023 at 1:49 pm

      @lowtechcyclist:

      Yes.  They’ll also use “Democrats” and “Republicans” when referring to only a few members of the party.  Misleading.

      Reply
    8. 8.

      Mike E

      January 18, 2023 at 1:50 pm

      @Baud: Yep, wapo is marginally better and three letter broadcast behemoths are hot garbage… the education/media literacy part is being whispered when it should be shouted out loud, especially in “polite” company.

      Reply
    9. 9.

      geg6

      January 18, 2023 at 1:50 pm

      @Baud:

      She’s the worst.  Nothing but a shameless hack.  The new Andrea Mitchell.  I despise her and will change the channel if I see her face or hear her voice or even name being mentioned.

      Reply
    10. 10.

      Renie

      January 18, 2023 at 1:51 pm

      A big Fox News gimmick was have the evening talking heads spew some ridiculous nonsense, then the next morning “news” people saw “some people are saying” then repeat the prior evening’s nonsense.

      Reply
    11. 11.

      Baud

      January 18, 2023 at 1:51 pm

      @geg6:

      new Andrea Mitchell.

       
      Good description.

      Reply
    12. 12.

      Fraud Guy

      January 18, 2023 at 1:59 pm

      7. The overuse of unnamed sources is subject to severe abuse. I once caught a reporter trying to describe the same source in three different ways, which would’ve made it appear to the reader that there were three separate sources.

      That’s grammar school level writing skill, right there.

      Reply
    13. 13.

      patrick II

      January 18, 2023 at 2:09 pm

      number 6 is the worst. If they find something objectively bad about one party they feel the need to find a creatively like item for a false equivalence and the appearance of fairness. For them Biden’s misplaced documents are like gold .​​​

      Reply
    14. 14.

      realbtl

      January 18, 2023 at 2:10 pm

      From 2004 to 2010 I taught Media Literacy as the Prevention Specialist at our local drug and alcohol, both in schools and to my minor in possession job. It doesn’t even have to be overtly political. Show kids a picture of a McD’s hamburger from an ad and show them the squashed soggy burger they actually get.

      Reply
    15. 15.

      Mornington Crescent

      January 18, 2023 at 2:14 pm

      The Guardian does the “How” and  “Why” thing several times a day, and it really gets on my nerves.  The articles never answer how or why.

      Reply
    16. 16.

      Kay

      January 18, 2023 at 2:20 pm

      @geg6:

      Agreed – Just terrible.

      She’s one of those media people where I don’t know who she is talking to. It’s clearly not “us” (the public) – this performance is for some fancy people who are off stage.

      Have you ever had a conversation with a horrible person who is not really conversing with you but is instead “conversing” with you to reach some other, better person across the room? If they’re bad at it they’ll actually glance over at the person they are “speaking” to, using you as a prop. That’s what they remind me of.

      Reply
    17. 17.

      Chief Oshkosh

      January 18, 2023 at 2:21 pm

      @Baud: But the old Andrea Mitchell is still being Andrea Mitchell. Hardly seems fair that we have to put up with TWO Andra Mitchells.

      Reply
    18. 18.

      Brachiator

      January 18, 2023 at 2:23 pm

      @lowtechcyclist:

      Another rule: anytime a story or header says “Congress” is responsible for doing X, or blocking Y, they’re covering for the Rethugs.

      Another variation you see from self-described progressive commentators is this: “Democrats are responsible for blocking X” when the sole source of opposition was Manchin and Sinema.

      Reply
    19. 19.

      Sister Golden Bear

      January 18, 2023 at 2:24 pm

      Re-upping from the almost-dead thread downstairs, because it’s fucking important.

      Speaking of terrorists, the Christofascist Republicans are trying to pass many horrific anti-trans/anti-LGBTQ+ laws. To quote Alejandra Caraballo:

      “In a year, we went from “we have concerns about fairness women’s sports” to “the existence of trans people is obscene material that should be a felony to share with a minor.” It was never about sports. It was about mainstreaming eliminationist policies.”

      No she’s not exaggerating.

      The latest, West By Good Virginia bill, SB 252 would define “obscene matter” as exposure to transgender people. It would make it a felony to share any content regarding transgender people with a minor. Half of dozen other red states have proposed similar bills. They’re (intentionally) so vaguely written that it’s possible I and other trans folks could be arrested simple being out in public if there’s children around.

      Oklahoma SB 408 — cynically named the “Women’s Bill of Rights” — would eliminate the legal recognition of trans and intersex people in the state.

      Meanwhile today North Dakota’s Senate is debating a bill that would criminalize using pronouns not associated with a persons DNA. The senator who’s pushing it is getting hammered on how he’d enforce it, and finally says that he’d require genetic tests. Which shows he knows shit about sex and genetics — there’s six viable genetic sexes, plus intersex people, plus various conditions (e.g. androgen insensitivity disorder) that causes someone’s body to appear different that their DNA. Oh and there’s also people with chimeric DNA, i.e. they’re a mix of both XX and XY chromosomes.

      Reply
    20. 20.

      trollhattan

      January 18, 2023 at 2:35 pm

      @Baud: Is she sixteen? Sixteen is a very special birthday, to any aspiring reporter.

      Reply
    21. 21.

      Dangerman

      January 18, 2023 at 2:37 pm

      “Beat Sweeteners”? Is it too early for Balloon-Juice After Dark?

      Reply
    22. 22.

      Amir Khalid

      January 18, 2023 at 2:37 pm

      Mark Jacobs’ list is depressingly familiar to this one-time journalist.

      Reply
    23. 23.

      ian

      January 18, 2023 at 2:40 pm

      @lowtechcyclist: One of my favorites is a media figure saying “Congress must explain X”, as if it was Congress’ job to be a press release service.  A solid majority of the time individual congressional critters do in fact release press statements explaining why they did X, but these never make it into demands for “Congress” to explain.

      Reply
    24. 24.

      Roger Moore

      January 18, 2023 at 2:40 pm

      95% of the “what to do about propaganda” conversation in the U.S. is fixated on what’s not possible.

      I will add to this: people who fixate on what is impossible are looking for excuses for inaction.  People who actually care about achieving a goal are also focused on how to make it happen.  They may see obstacles, but when they do they start looking for ways to circumvent them.

      Reply
    25. 25.

      Ken

      January 18, 2023 at 2:43 pm

      12. Why do we hear from the same “experts” all the time on the news? Because it’s easier for the journalists, who don’t have to find and vet new people.

      I’m not sure I completely agree with this, since several of points 1-11 were about journalists not vetting their sources.  Some even contradict “find”, since they’re about how the “sources” feed stories to the journalists.

      Reply
    26. 26.

      Jesse

      January 18, 2023 at 2:44 pm

      The German press also throws out headlines as questions. So a publically funded press (to some extent) doesn’t eliminate that kind of journalistic laziness. And yes, the answer to the question is usually known in advance. (Usually, the answer is “no.”)

      Reply
    27. 27.

      cain

      January 18, 2023 at 2:45 pm

      @Baud: I’m reminded of a scene during the Iraq War where a bunch of people tore down the statue of Saddam Hussein – and it turns out that the crowd was 2 guys, and 25 reporters.

      https://www.wired.com/2011/01/toppled-how-the-press-spun-the-saddam-statue-moment/

      Reply
    28. 28.

      ian

      January 18, 2023 at 2:45 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: Those fuckers feel no shame.  Criminalizing pronouns?  Felonies for talking about transgendered people to minors?  I can’t see how any of that survives a legal challenge (well, I can, but that is because the Federalist hacks in charge of chunks of the judiciary).

      These people have some deep seated hatred.  I hope all that stuff never passes.

      Reply
    29. 29.

      Mike in NC

      January 18, 2023 at 2:45 pm

      Front page of USA Today: “Biden’s enemies turn up the heat”. Of course each and every one of the bottom feeders in the modern GQP was taught by Newt Gingrich to consider anybody with whom they had even a slight policy difference to be a sworn enemy. I keep a bottle of bubbly chilling for the great day his obituary appears (along with those of Clarence and Ginni Thomas).

      Reply
    30. 30.

      gratuitous

      January 18, 2023 at 2:47 pm

      As to number 3, about “observers say,” don’t leave out the reporter himself or herself as being the “observer” who is noticing something the reporter wants to get “out there” in the Cokie Roberts sense.

      Reply
    31. 31.

      cain

      January 18, 2023 at 2:50 pm

      @geg6:

      She’s the worst.  Nothing but a shameless hack.  The new Andrea Mitchell.  I despise her and will change the channel if I see her face or hear her voice or even name being mentioned.

      Not to give her a pass as she has agency to change – but I have observed that women in white male dominated management chains end up carrying a lot of water for patriarchy as part of survival. In short, she maybe a hack – but there is some patriarchy shit involved turning her into one.

      Reply
    32. 32.

      mdblanche

      January 18, 2023 at 2:52 pm

      Betteridge’s Law: Whenever a headline is in the form of a question, the answer is “no.”

      Reply
    33. 33.

      Jesse

      January 18, 2023 at 2:53 pm

      The German press is also guilty of writing stories saying “people are saying X about Y,” thereby making it true, soon enough, that people are saying X about Y or reacting to others saying X about Y.

      Reply
    34. 34.

      cain

      January 18, 2023 at 2:54 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: Yeah, that’s some epic horror show bullshit. There are instances where a child could physical manifest as male even though they are genetically a woman – classic transgender and could get put in jail.

      They are working on creating the next generation of trauma – we seriously need to organize because the next step is Gay/Lesbian – it’s on the list. They have their pet SCOTUS to assist them.

      Reply
    35. 35.

      BellyCat

      January 18, 2023 at 2:54 pm

      Only one tweet about possible solutions. Democracy is running on fumes because of the so-called press.

      Reply
    36. 36.

      zhena gogolia

      January 18, 2023 at 2:55 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: These are like the Russian anti-gay bills. Be vague so you can accuse anyone of anything.

      Reply
    37. 37.

      cain

      January 18, 2023 at 2:57 pm

      @BellyCat: Comics books have done an excellent job lampooning the press. “V for Vendetta” and “Batman: The Dark Knight Returns” are two that do a great job of poking fun of the press.

      Reply
    38. 38.

      Roger Moore

      January 18, 2023 at 2:57 pm

      @Brachiator:

      Another variation you see from self-described progressive commentators is this: “Democrats are responsible for blocking X” when the sole source of opposition was Manchin and Sinema.

      And they’ll completely ignore that the Republicans are 100% united in opposition.  It’s a great example of Murc’s Law in action.  Republican opposition is just assumed to be an unchangeable law of the universe.

      Reply
    39. 39.

      Kay

      January 18, 2023 at 2:59 pm

      @cain:

      The email and Bengazi insanity with her is unforgiveable. I think she is some kind of “national security” reporter so that’s where her grave warnings about Democrats taking “national security risks” come from, but come on- this whole fraudulent schtick is over. They never said a peep about Trump and national security. The national security risk disappeared the moment Obama was out of office and they finished  beating Clinton with it.

      Drop it now at least, lady. You’re insulting us.

      The emails were bullshit. Everyone knows it now. They need to move on to some other supposed area of expertise. They’ll come up with something.

      Reply
    40. 40.

      Citizen Alan

      January 18, 2023 at 3:04 pm

      @Roger Moore:

      I will add to this: people who fixate on what is impossible are looking for excuses for inaction.

      For some reason, this makes me think of how people who constantly shout “We should abolish the Electoral College” are taken seriously in Leftie circles while people who say “we should increase the size of the House to 4000 representatives” are not, even though the former requires a Constitutional Amendment while the latter requires 218+51+1.

      Reply
    41. 41.

      Bostondreams

      January 18, 2023 at 3:07 pm

      Since this is an open thread: Florida denies approval for an AP African American History course in the state. It says there is ‘no educational value’ to the course and it violates the law.

      Reply
    42. 42.

      delphinium

      January 18, 2023 at 3:13 pm

      @Roger Moore: ​
      I saw that the NJ governor recently signed into law a requirement that schools would have to teach media literacy to students at all grade levels to include how to decipher fact from disinformation. So at least someone is trying to educate people.

      Reply
    43. 43.

      Citizen Alan

      January 18, 2023 at 3:14 pm

      @cain: Part of why white women seem to be less reliable allies than other minorities is that women who play ball with the Patriarchy can profit from it in ways that, say, POCs could never benefit from supporting White Supremacy. For all that MAGAs adore people like Candace Owens, if she ever, say, complained that a white cop had frightened her during a traffic stop, most of here white supporters would turn on her instantly. And I’ve pointed out recently that Michael Steele was the most successful RNC head of the last 20 years and the GOP still couldn’t wait to kick him to the curb.

      Reply
    44. 44.

      Nelle

      January 18, 2023 at 3:19 pm

      @Roger Moore: Samantha Power wrote that Obama would remind those who worked with him “not to fall in love with the problem.”  I’ve found the phrase a helpful antidote to paralysis.

      Reply
    45. 45.

      UncleEbeneezer

      January 18, 2023 at 3:26 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: And the thing that still burns me is that all this shit would be quickly knocked down by SCOTUS had people not decided to fuck around and vote for Jill Stein, Gary Johnson or simply not voted, in 2016.  As overtly unconstitutional as all this shit looks to my non-lawyer eyes, I have little faith in the Trump 6. Ugh…

      Reply
    46. 46.

      delphinium

      January 18, 2023 at 3:27 pm

      @Kay: ​
      I worked with a woman who was a life-long Republican but didn’t like Trump. She asked me about the emails ‘scandal’ and I tried to explain as best I could without saying “it is bullshit”. We had some good conversations about other political stuff as well and she ended up voting for Hillary.

      Reply
    47. 47.

      gvg

      January 18, 2023 at 3:36 pm

      @Bostondreams: I am surprised to find the course will actually exist in the future because AP courses are mostly big survey courses not subsets. There is US History, European History and I don’t see any other history courses in the AP History listing.  Apparently only 38 AP courses. I googled it and it is currently a pilot program with 60 schools testing it nationwide and 200 next year. I’d like to get rid of some nuts in our government before we try.

      Florida high school students pick up a lot more college credit and subject teaching through our dual enrollment high school college credit which is free college credit while in high school taken at local colleges. That is where they might pick up African American history, or even regular American history taught honestly.

      Reply
    48. 48.

      cain

      January 18, 2023 at 3:42 pm

      @Kay: Absolutely – they should be held accountable – but almost all of that was driven by the New York Times and Fox News. The entire apparatus – not just the women. But yeah, they don’t get a pass for that – they had agency.

      The worst part of it was participating in a clear misogyny when it comes to Hillary. Just the worst.

      Reply
    49. 49.

      cain

      January 18, 2023 at 3:45 pm

      @Citizen Alan: They aren’t looking for allies they are looking for tools to use and discard.

      Perhaps that short term gain for people like Candace is enough – but eventually they will hit a wall.

      Reply
    50. 50.

      TriassicSands

      January 18, 2023 at 3:47 pm

      Stories that make pols look good are known in the business as “beat sweeteners.”

      Funny, I think of them more as (to put it crudely) “meat beaters.” Sorry, if the image is sickening.

      Reply
    51. 51.

      Geminid

      January 18, 2023 at 4:05 pm

      A citizen journalist who has really impressed me is Cheryl Christy-Bowman of Moore County, North Carolina. She is a public education advocate who has been blogging on local politics since the summer of 2018.

      Moore County made national news early last December when someone shot up two electric substations and cut off power to 45,000 residents. Ms. Bowman-Christy decided to write a 5 part timeline of political radicalization in Moore County, starting in 2014. She intends to cover the yet-unsolved power station attacks and their aftermath in the last two parts.

      Every event in this timeline has a direct impact on th division and harrassment that comes down the road.

      Part two will cover 2019-2020 and detail how the Moore County Board of Education became ground zero for the alt-right takeover of our county.

      Ms. Christy-Bowman believes the process she describes has taken place in many other rural-exurban counties like her own.

      She dropped “Timeline of Terror- Part 2” this afternoon:

      https://www.moorevoices.net/post/moore-county-timeline-of-terror-part-2

      Reply
    52. 52.

      Geminid

      January 18, 2023 at 4:12 pm

      @Geminid: Before its substations were shot up, Moore County was best known for the Southern Pines resort and golf community. It is slso next to Cumberland County, and many of its residents work in Cumberland at Fort Bragg and in Fayetteville.

      Reply
    53. 53.

      Dangerman

      January 18, 2023 at 4:15 pm

      @TriassicSands: Come sit next to me. Not too close.

      Reply
    54. 54.

      Geminid

      January 18, 2023 at 4:19 pm

      @Geminid: I was looking for fresh news on the Moore County attacks but did not find any. There were reports of a very recent attack on another rural North Carolina substation, though. The power company got an alarm at 3:30 am and when they saw damage from gunfire they alerted police.

      A TV station reported that in addition to local and state law enforcement, an FBI counter terrorism task force had opened a “parallel” investigation.

      Reply
    55. 55.

      TriassicSands

      January 18, 2023 at 4:22 pm

      @Baud: Kristen Welker

      I am unfamiliar with Welker since I basically never watch television news. So, I looked her up. My reaction to what I read — referring to almost any of the talking heads on TV news as “journalists” is akin to calling Donald Trump a “statesman.” That’s why I stopped watching television news long ago.

      @Baud: Another rule: The NYT is garbage.

      The other day we may have established that we see things differently, but I chafe whenever I read an unqualified comment like this. What is garbage about the NY Times is a lot — much, if not most — of their political coverage. I agree with that,

      But the Times is much more than just political coverage. I spend far more time reading Times articles that have nothing to do with politics. Every day there is something worthwhile in the Times about science, the arts, literature, medicine, technology, etc. And they do publish columns by some columnists that are worth reading. Others, like Douthat, Bobo, and Bret Stephens are more or less worthless, but they aren’t nearly as bad as the Post’s right wing columnists — Marc Thiessen, Hugh Hewitt, etc. — who the Post should be ashamed to publish. All are to be avoided, unless someone wants to keep abreast of just how horrible today’s right wing/Republicans are. I don’t waste my time reading any of the above columnists except on the rare occasion when I’m curious as to just how bad a column on an important subject could be. They don’t disappoint. For example, I recently, for the first time in a long time, read a couple of columns Douthat wrote about physician assisted end of life care. Religion, religion, religion.

      I subscribe¹ to both the Times and Post and have serious reservations and complaints about both papers’ political coverage. Often “garbage” is an inadequate description. The Times relies heavily on bothsiderism, which is common today in Main Stream Media. NPR is another reliable source for bothsiderism and false equivalence. However,  I’ve always managed to get inexpensive subscription deals that probably do more to boost the papers’ number of subscribers than pay their bills.

      I had hoped that with the retirement of the execrable Dean Baquet that Times political coverage would improve. That hasn’t happened as far as I can tell. For it’s part, the Post has unforgivably bad headline writers and increasingly doesn’t seem to have any actual editors on staff. They also feature some of the worst political columnists imaginable. Glenn Kessler, the fact checker for the Post, is, if anything, getting worse as time passes. The man thrives on bothsiderist and false equivalence nonsense.

      The Times is hardly alone in its egregious political coverage — it’s close to the norm in all American “journalism,” a word which often is inappropriately applied to what the media provide.

      ¹ I have been able to get significant discounts in their online editions and the price is more than worth the content I get. There is nothing I can do to improve the political coverage of the Times (countless letters to the Editor have accomplished nothing) and it will continue whether I subscribe or not, but the other, non-political content I get makes the continued existence of the Times worthwhile. For now, anyway.

      Reply
    56. 56.

      Bostondreams

      January 18, 2023 at 4:47 pm

      @gvg: I know and work with some of the folks involved in developing this course and they are devastated. And Duval County was supposed to pilot it next year.

      Reply
    57. 57.

      Bostondreams

      January 18, 2023 at 4:50 pm

      @gvg:

      Florida high school students pick up a lot more college credit and subject teaching through our dual enrollment high school college credit which is free college credit while in high school taken at local colleges. That is where they might pick up African American history, or even regular American history taught honestly.

      The problem is that we are already seeing self censorship in this state at the college level, and Rufo just shared that state college presidents are going to ‘crack down’ on diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts.

      Reply
    58. 58.

      geg6

      January 18, 2023 at 4:55 pm

      @cain: ​
       
      As a woman in a male dominated management chain, I call bullshit. As the daughter of a woman who was a journalist in a male dominated management chain going from the late 1960s through the early 1990s, I also call bullshit. It’s a choice, especially in journalism, where there have been many women in the same situation who chose not to be a hack.

      Reply
    59. 59.

      Princess

      January 18, 2023 at 5:09 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: he doesn’t even know what his own DNA would tell us.

      Reply
    60. 60.

      jackmac

      January 18, 2023 at 5:33 pm

      @TriassicSands: Like you, I have digital subscribtions to both the Times and Post (plus the incredibly diminished Chicago Tribune). Coverage of politics and government by both East Coast outlets consists of so much both-siderism, horse race reporting, suspect  sourcing and cringe-worthy speculation that makes most of that reporting barely worth reading. But in other areas — arts, foreign affairs, science, business, sports (now and then) and more — the Times and Post offer invaluable and authoritative journalism that keeps me coming back. In fact, I sometimes find great reporting about my home Chicago area and Midwest that I can’t find anywhere else. That leaves me to wonder why my Chicago Tribune — once again — missed that particular story.

      And if I may add, I find TV news networks and local newscasts (with some individual exceptions) more performance art rather than journalism.

      Reply
    61. 61.

      trnc

      January 18, 2023 at 6:09 pm

      I, too, dislike question-mark headlines. People don’t come to news websites to get questions asked — they come to get questions answered.

      A not insignificant number of people come to have their biases confirmed. Otherwise, we’d get a lot less both-sidsing.

      Reply
    62. 62.

      TriassicSands

      January 18, 2023 at 9:43 pm

      @jackmac:

      Agreed. I’ve read  so many comments on BJ about how the Times is terrible, and, with some exceptions, I agree that the political coverage is poor. But there is so much more to a newspaper than just political coverage.

      Reply

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