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You are here: Home / Politics / Republican Stupidity / Drama Queens

Drama Queens

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They don’t know how to govern, they don’t care, and they just want to make a scene and break shit:

As criticism builds in Republican ranks over the debt ceiling deal struck by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., and President Joe Biden, some hard-line conservatives have begun floating the idea of toppling the speaker.

On a House Freedom Caucus call Monday night, Rep. Ken Buck, R-Colo., floated using the motion to vacate, a rule that would allow any House member to force a vote to remove the speaker, two sources familiar with the call said. Buck, speaking toward the end of the call, referred to it as the “elephant in the room,” a source said.

After House Freedom Caucus Chairman Scott Perry, R-Pa., suggested it might be too early for such a drastic threat, Rep. Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., proposed using the threat to force McCarthy to allow members to amend the bill on the House floor, under an “open rule” that could stall the bill’s passage. Perry responded that the issue would be discussed more when members return to Washington after the long weekend.

Beyond the fact that it is unconscionable to me that any would vote for these lunatics, I hate the framing of Gosar as a conservative. He’s a fucking fascist. Everyone in the Freedom caucus is.

Reader Interactions

177Comments

  2. 2.

    bbleh

    They don’t know how to govern, they don’t care, and they just want to make a scene and break shit

    … and raise money from people more stupid than they who are so consumed by grievance they have become nihilists, and ultimately land a sinecure with OANN or some other wingnut propaganda mill.

    And increasingly, this IS what “conservative” means, and if you think you’re a conservative but you’re not with the program, then you’re just as bad as the libruls.

    @Baud: concur if you mean in the debt-limit kerfuffle, but not at all clear if you mean in the general sense, Exhibit A being the Trump Cult.

  4. 4.

    Gvg

    I think they will force a vote on McCartney, and it will die. If that occurs, it actually could slightly strengthen him.

    But it will make the real crazies more frustrated and attack their own, both in government and voters. They don’t like being shown they don’t have almost everyone agreeing with them, so it will splinter the GOP just a little further.

    I could be really wrong. I really don’t get these loonies at all. But they didn’t pull the trigger on the economy so far even while huffing and puffing again.

  6. 6.

    CaseyL

     

    …proposed using the threat to force McCarthy to allow members to amend the bill on the House floor, under an “open rule” that could stall the bill’s passage. Perry responded that the issue would be discussed more when members return to Washington after the long weekend.

    Now I guess we’ll get to see how many GOPers are nihilists through and through, versus how many just play the role for shits and giggles.

    If Biden and Jeffries plotted and schemed as well as I think they did, and if there are a few GOPers who prefer (like Liz Cheney) to create an authoritarian theocracy under cover of law, rather than burn everything down by crashing the global economy, then the Freedom Caucus might find itself quite marooned.

  8. 8.

    dmsilev

    I thought the Rules Committee already voted and there’s no open amendment process or anything like that.

    The lunatics do have the right to call a vote of confidence, essentially, on McCarthy; he had to agree to that to edge out the Speaker vote originally. And it’d only take a handful of loons to either topple him or for him to survive with the assent of Democrats (who could abstain, meaning that he’d just need a majority of the GOP, not a majority of the entire House, to survive). Surviving with the assent of Democrats would arguably be worse for McCarthy in the long run; the knives would really be out for him in that scenario.

  10. 10.

    Pete Downunder

    If memory serves, which at my age it might well not, Squeaker got in with a very bare majority of R votes and no Ds. A motion to vacate could thus easily be defeated by a few helpful D votes which POTUS may have offered as part of the deal. It will be interesting to watch.

  13. 13.

    Ruckus

    John, they don’t have any thing else to do but break shit. They don’t know anything else but to break shit.

    Their entire concept of life is to be pissed off for mumble, mumble, something.

    They are pissed that someone with skin darker than a normal piece of typewriter paper got elected president and vice president. They are pissed that being white doesn’t get them special anything. They are pissed that having a penis doesn’t get them special anything. Have to prove they have any value whatsoever? Not being able to take whatever they want? Being found out that they are racist fucks? Not being allowed to be racist fucks?  What in the fuck is this world coming to? And that’s not even the entire list. Of course they are pissed, they are being replaced by human beings, and being a complete asshole to everyone else in the world is out. It’s only taken several hundred decades but it’s here, possibly actual humanity.

  14. 14.

    different-church-lady

    “But I didn’t think I’d eat my own face!” says member of the Leopards Eating Everyone’s Faces Including Their Own to Spite Their Faces caucus.​

  15. 15.

    different-church-lady

    @Ruckus: ​
     

    they don’t have any thing else to do but break shit. They don’t know anything else but to break shit.

    They ran for office in the first place so they could break shit.

  16. 16.

    Kelly

    @CaseyL:  Now I guess we’ll get to see how many GOPers are nihilists through and through, versus how many just play the role for shits and giggles.

    Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there’s nothing to be afraid of.

  19. 19.

    Kent

    They are REALLY bad at actual politicking, especially against an old experience hand like Biden.

    The Debt Ceiling deal was really a HUGE UNFORCED error by the House GOP.  They owned the House already and we all cued up to negotiate some kind of serious budget deal in the fall since the 2024 and beyond budgets have to come through the House anyway.  So Democrats were going to have to deal with them at some point and negotiate some sort of budget compromise.

    By tying EVERYTHING to the hard Armageddon deadline of the Debt Ceiling they were forced to take whatever broad deal they could get in a week or so with only leadership doing the negotiating.   They had zero chance to take a hatchet to the specific agency funding that they hated like the EPA while preserving stuff they wanted like farm supports and flood insurance for the MAGA hordes with beachfront property in Florida and the Gulf Coast.  Because all that sort of thing happens at the committee level which they bypassed by going straight to Biden for “negotiations”

    So they got a few nickel and dime things, and the sort of broad spending moratorium they were going get anyway in the fall by threatening government shutdown.  And now the parameters of the Federal budget are more or less fixed for the next two years.

    Honest to God, Biden may be the best Democratic politician we have had since FDR.  And no one seems to actually realize it.

  22. 22.

    BruceFromOhio

    He’s a fucking fascist. Everyone in the Freedom caucus is.

    As are their constituents, their donors. That ‘breaking shit’ thing? They all want it.

  24. 24.

    Kent

    @Pete Downunder:If memory serves, which at my age it might well not, Squeaker got in with a very bare majority of R votes and no Ds. A motion to vacate could thus easily be defeated by a few helpful D votes which POTUS may have offered as part of the deal. It will be interesting to watch.

    It would be political malpractice of epic historic levels for the Dems to give McCarthy a single fucking vote.

    Watching the House melt down into a cesspool of dysfunctional bile is the best advertisement possible to vote Dem in 2024.

    An organized and productive GOP House can do no good at all, only bad.  And in a gridlocked Congress, all the action is in the Senate anyway with all the judicial and agency confirmations.

  25. 25.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Kent:

    It would be political malpractice of epic historic levels for the Dems to give McCarthy a single fucking vote.

    Would a vote to vacate the Speaker’s chair interfere with this debt limit deal?

    I understand it’s cleared the House Rules committee vote

  26. 26.

    Kent

    @dmsilev:

    I thought the Rules Committee already voted and there’s no open amendment process or anything like that.

    The lunatics do have the right to call a vote of confidence, essentially, on McCarthy; he had to agree to that to edge out the Speaker vote originally. And it’d only take a handful of loons to either topple him or for him to survive with the assent of Democrats (who could abstain, meaning that he’d just need a majority of the GOP, not a majority of the entire House, to survive). Surviving with the assent of Democrats would arguably be worse for McCarthy in the long run; the knives would really be out for him in that scenario.

    No, no, GOD know.  It would be politically insane for the Dems to do anything to help McCarthy.   Let them implode and get out the popcorn is the only correct answer.  And the best advertisement for voting blue in 2024.

  28. 28.

    Kent

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I have no idea.  But I suspect the debt ceiling vote would come first.  It is scheduled for tomorrow.  After that who cares.  If the Senate votes approves it unchanged it doesn’t even go back to the House but straight to Biden.

  29. 29.

    HumboldtBlue

    I just finished episode 3 of Homicide: Life On The Street.

    It’s a great show, groundbreaking in ways for the cop show formula on TV, but what stands out is the cast. So many recognizable faces, already known, and not a car chase or gun battle to be found. They still solve some difficult shit in 47 minutes, but we kinda expect that, and you can definitely see the original DNA for the whole Law and Order franchise.

    And for that matter, the original DNA of The Wire as well.

    The new faces that we now all recognize are what really stands out, like bit-part characters Edie Falco and Eric Dellums and a couple dozen other faces that leave you asking yourself “where do I know them from?”

    It holds up very well.

  30. 30.

    piratedan

    @Kent: some of us do, but I kind of doubt that it would be echoed by our 4th estate betters.

    Granted, there is STILL a possibility that the GOP will douse themselves and light a match just to watch the world burn (and I think THAT select caucus contains a good many of the J6 conspirators). I believe that Biden and Jeffries and Schumer have talked about the likely scenarios and outcomes and what the responses will be depending upon whichever scenario presents itself.  I suspect that the media will continue to just see Biden as an old dude who can be nice and civil to people he doesn’t especially like and can even poke fun at himself and not really understand that he’s been walking these halls for a long time, enjoys being a politician in order to make lives better and is not hung up on all of the usual bs that the media finds so important.

    I’m really coming to the point that the number of people in the media that have a good handle on what constitutes good government and truly understand the stakes of watching the GOP embrace fascism could fill a small high school gym.

  31. 31.

    barbequebob

    @Kelly: He had a heart attack, so I guess you could say the Nihilists killed him indirectly. But, seems to me that if you have a  bad heart like he did, something will kill you.

  34. 34.

    RevRick

    @Kent: This would be fine, but only after the debt ceiling vote gets passed in the House. After that vote would be delicious, because until the House elects a Speaker, it cannot conduct any business whatsoever. A House without a Speaker means the Jim Jordans have no committees to conduct their bogus investigations. And given this deal runs through January 1, 2025, we can basically live without the House doing anything. But the debt ceiling bill must be passed first.
    So, if there’s a motion to vacate (a privileged motion) before the debt ceiling vote, then Democrats have to vote to preserve McCarthy as Speaker.

  37. 37.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @RevRick:

    So, if there’s a motion to vacate (a privileged motion) before the debt ceiling vote, then Democrats have to vote to preserve McCarthy as Speaker

    Exactly. But hold on, say Dems do supply the needed votes to save McCarthy’s bacon. If a motion to vacate is a privileged motion, what’s to stop them from simply calling another motion to vacate?

  38. 38.

    dmsilev

    @RevRick: Is that true? I know it’s the case at the beginning of a term, because electing a Speaker is needed to set the committee memberships and operating rules and so forth, but if a Speaker gets defenestrated midway through the term, are all of those organizational items immediately null and void?

  41. 41.

    Maxim

    @piratedan:

    [Biden] is not hung up on all of the usual bs that the media finds so important.

    I loved his response to that one reporter’s question about whether the debt ceiling deal could really be passed in time: “You know you guys don’t live in the real world, right?”

  43. 43.

    Jackie

    O/T Watching Sen Whitehouse on O’Donnell’s program and he has a framed photo directly behind him of Nancy Smash standing and leaning towards TFG while pointing her finger in accusation at a seated, cowed Trump surrounded by equally shamed Trump officials – all men, of course.

    I have the exact photo in postcard size on my fridge. I ♥️ it, and obviously Whitehouse loves it, too!

  44. 44.

    HumboldtBlue

    It’s universally understood here that everything Trump touches dies, and there isn’t a person he won’t sell out or betray for his own ends. Trump’s most loyal defenders are just coming to terms with this immutable law of the universe, and they have finished the fuck around part and are now in the find out field.

    Kayleigh McEnany please step forward.

  45. 45.

    sdhays

    @Baud: Yeah, unfortunately the House still has important work to do.

    But it would be funny to watch the Gym Jordans spluttering in surprise at having their committees shut down while their caucus flails trying to figure out who to replace McQarthy with.

  46. 46.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Kent:

    As others have said, a motion to vacate is a privileged motion that would come before any debt ceiling vote. In that case, Dems would have to vote to save McCarthy, because that would mean no business could be conducted in the House without a speaker. So, that would be epic political malpractice of historical proportions for Dems to commit if they didn’t vote to save his speakership

    This doesn’t get into the possibility that these fucks could simply call for motions to vacate one after the other to prevent a debt ceiling vote

    ETA: I see you addressed the last paragraph at #40

  48. 48.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @Kent: ​

    If you can’t take their money, drink their whiskey, screw their women, and vote against ‘em anyway, you don’t belong in the Legislature

    ~ Jess Unruh

    I am here to tell you this, that power is not a toy that we give to good children. It’s a weapon, and the strong man takes it and he uses it. And if you don’t go down there and beat Joe Cantwell to the floor with this very dirty stick, then you’ve got no business in this big league.

    ~ Art Hockstader

  50. 50.

    Ken

    @Baud: Can you imagine the conspiracy theories if five more Republicans resign for “personal reasons” in the next couple of weeks?  Though we’d only get true craziness if a couple of them died in accidents.

  51. 51.

    Eolirin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Talking filibusters are exhausting, and that’s effectively what this would be. The house would be kept in session until they stopped, even if that took over a day

    I doubt they have the stamina for it.

  52. 52.

    eversor

    @Kent:

    I dunno. I think our side lacks the venom for a real street fight.  When you are fighting a person who’s going to cheat, then biting, fish hooking, eye gouging, and nut kicking are all on the menu.  There is no “high road” to it, it’s just a fucking shit show.

    Let them drag this out and make fools of themselves.  And then let Jeffries, Pelosi AOC and The Squad, put My Kevin over the top.  Sit back and watch the mess.  Since the deal goes through the next election let them fight each other like howler monkeys and laugh.

  53. 53.

    Jackie

    @Kent: I do.😊 My Dad always talked about FDR and the changes he made to help folks like his finally dig out from The Great Depression.

  55. 55.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Eolirin:

    That’s a good point. But there’s a few crazies seemingly on board with it. They could take turns, couldn’t they?

  57. 57.

    Jackie

    @Baud: It’s Utah. He’ll be replaced with another Repug. We can hope for a semi-sane Never Trumper, tho.

  58. 58.

    dmsilev

    @eversor:

    And then let Jeffries, Pelosi AOC and The Squad, put My Kevin over the top.  Sit back and watch the mess.

    I have to admit, that’d be absolutely hilarious.

  59. 59.

    Eolirin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yeah, maybe. It’s still going to make everyone stay up all night and not be able to leave and want to murder everyone involved, so idk how effective it’d be. Even taking turns it’s a lot of work. We have five days.

  63. 63.

    mrmoshpotato

    @cope:

    If only one of them were kicked off the island thrown in the Sun every week, what a wonderful world this would be. 

    Fixed!

  64. 64.

    matt

    yes, people who identify themselves as ‘conservatives’ are fascists. Or, you know, road builders for the fascists.

  66. 66.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @HumboldtBlue:

    everything Trump touches dies, and there isn’t a person he won’t sell out or betray for his own ends.

    One exception occurred to me:  Ivanka, not out of sentiment on his part, but because as his only child that’s not rock fucking stupid, she shows signs of having learned how to manage him.  That’s a thing, when people are stuck living with a malignant narcissist.  Trump is a rock fucking stupid malignant narcissist, Ivanka has a few natural advantages in twisting him, and she is probably good enough to turn his ire on everyone but her.  I don’t want to give the impression it isn’t pure Hell to even manage a malignant narcissist.  In her case, tolerating grotesque sexual harassment is probably involved.  But she shows signs of being able to do it.

  67. 67.

    JWR

    As a lifelong Dodger fan, I should’ve known it would be this humorless prick who’d buck team management’s ever-changing position.

    LOS ANGELES (AP) — Clayton Kershaw says he disagrees with the Los Angeles Dodgers’ decision to welcome a satirical 2SLGBTQ+ group called the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence at the team’s annual Pride Night.

    Kershaw told The Los Angeles Times on Monday that the team’s decision to honor the group after it rescinded its original invitation prompted him to approach the Dodgers about expediting the announcement that the team was bringing back Christian Faith and Family Day later this season.

    […]

    “This has nothing to do with the 2SLGBTQ community or Pride or anything like that,” said Kershaw, who held a players-only meeting in the clubhouse before Monday’s game. “This is simply a group that was making fun of a religion, that I don’t agree with.”

    Quick! Someone buy this clown a humor clue!

  68. 68.

    Shalimar

    @Kent: McCarthy doesn’t need Democratic votes to save him.  All he needs is enough to abstain so that he has a majority of those voting.  And he wouldn’t have agreed to raise the debt ceiling if saving his dream job wasn’t part of the agreement.  His ambition is his only character trait.

  69. 69.

    Redshift

    @Jackie:

    Right-wingers are mad that the fast food chain is turning woke.😂🤣😂

    It’s even stupider than that. They’re howling about boycotting them because they “just hired” a DEI VP, but apparently the person in question has had that title for at least a couple of years, and has worked for the company for sixteen years.

    “I just noticed this so that must mean it just happened!” Goldfish brain strikes again!

  70. 70.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @JWR:

    Wait, the LA Dodgers had a “Christian Faith and Family Day” at one point? Why? Like, I’m pretty sure the Dodgers have fans of other religions. Why not just make it a generic “Family Day”, or something?

    How does Kershaw think something so blatantly denominational would fly today in a cosmopolitan city like LA, the Dodgers’ cowardly management notwithstanding? Would he also be ok with a “Jewish Faith Day”? What about an “Islamic Faith Day”? “Hindu Faith Day”?

  71. 71.

    Dan B

    It seems like the rhetoric about LGBTQ+ people is heating up.  I’ve seen a big increase in the calls for death, at least the gay sites like JoeMyGod are reporting more.  I’m guessing that abortion is receding in utility at riling up the base.  It’s startling how rapidly the focus went from the trans community to Pride / gays.  The DOJ confirms the increase in threats across the country.

    Fascism.  Seems like it to me.  It also seems like the MSM and the vast majority of Americans seem to be either unaware or all too willing to discount LGBTQ fears.  It’s an ominous sign.

  72. 72.

    Shalimar

    @JWR: I don’t see why the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence can’t dress up for Christian Faith and Family Day too.  What are the Dodgers going to do, ban anyone dressed like a nun?

  73. 73.

    Jackie

    @Redshift: I chuckled through out the entire article. Now if they’d only open on Sundays – they’re missing out on the “after church fried chicken for supper” crowd.

  75. 75.

    eversor

    @Redshift:

    No it’s even dumber than that.  A few years ago they tried to boycot Christian Fried Chicken when it backed off the anti LGBTQ shit.  It lasted maybe a month.  So this is the same damn thing all over again.

  76. 76.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Kent:

    Yes. I think he is the best since FDR, from what I have read of the FDR administration. Easily the best in my political lifetime. Now it is up to the Dem messaging machine(s) and above all, voter organising to make 2024 a smashing success for both Biden and Harris and importantly, the Senate and the House. I am feeling pretty optimistic these past few weeks.

    The republicans appear to be in disarray!

  77. 77.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @eversor:

    No it’s even dumber than that. A few years ago they tried to boycot Christian Fried Chicken when it backed off the anti LGBTQ shit. It lasted maybe a month. So this is the same damn thing all over again.

    Not quite, according to this article from the New Republic:

    The Right’s War on Brands Is Stupid and Terrifying: The anti-LGBTQ attacks of Bud Light and Target are no mere boycotts—the aim is to intimidate companies into submission

    Even by the right’s recent standards, the ongoing backlash to Bud Light is convoluted and stupid. To the extent that it can be summed up, it goes something like this. Last month, the perfectly acceptable beverage company sent trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney some beer to celebrate her first year of womanhood. Mulvaney then did what influencers do when they receive free stuff: She posted about it in conjunction with a sweepstakes associated with March Madness. Right-wingers saw this, freaked out, and began a boycott. The beer’s sales have subsequently plummeted; right-wingers claimed victory after the company parted ways with two executives who were responsible for the very normal brand promotion—and then continued the boycott anyway.

    The Mulvaney episode is now a playbook for the right. If a company makes any statement, however minor or tepid, in support of LGBTQ rights, launch a boycott and cause a firestorm—it doesn’t matter if anything makes sense. What matters in the end is that the company is left without any credible means of responding to the contretemps. Bud Light has backed down somewhat—again, two people lost their jobs over something extremely trivial—but it hasn’t amounted to “amends” as far as the braying lunatics who kicked off this firestorm are concerned. They have managed to turn being a mewling, whining infant into a political identity: They see a woman with some beers, and they throw a tantrum. And they don’t stop.

    […]

    Still, the biggest aspect of the ongoing Target and Bud Light brouhaha is as a naked, stupid, and often terrifying example of power—one for which a response has yet to be developed: It’s hard to see how the silent, sane majority of Target shoppers can rise up in the company’s defense. The opponents of these companies are menacing; they want to scare these brands and their employees on the front line. (Indeed, Target moved its displays citing employee safety.) They’re also hardly aimed at Target and Bud Light alone. This is a war aimed at corporate America writ large: Make any statement acknowledging the existence of anyone we don’t like, and you’re next.

    What I’d like to know is when this all changed. It wasn’t that long ago these people were losers who we all laughed at when they destroyed shit they already bought as a “boycott” and then we moved on with our lives

    Finally, I want to know what can be done about this. That New Republic article I quoted was not optimistic

  78. 78.

    JWR

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Yep. It’s all or none, far as I’m concerned. But this guy’s always been really big on his faith, so I guess he’s a great big no to any religions other than his own. Eh, screw ‘im.

  80. 80.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Reposting for anybody who might have eversor pie’d, because I think this is important for as many people to see as possible

    @eversor:

    No it’s even dumber than that. A few years ago they tried to boycot Christian Fried Chicken when it backed off the anti LGBTQ shit. It lasted maybe a month. So this is the same damn thing all over again.

    Not quite, according to this article from the New Republic:

    The Right’s War on Brands Is Stupid and Terrifying: The anti-LGBTQ attacks of Bud Light and Target are no mere boycotts—the aim is to intimidate companies into submission

    Even by the right’s recent standards, the ongoing backlash to Bud Light is convoluted and stupid. To the extent that it can be summed up, it goes something like this. Last month, the perfectly acceptable beverage company sent trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney some beer to celebrate her first year of womanhood. Mulvaney then did what influencers do when they receive free stuff: She posted about it in conjunction with a sweepstakes associated with March Madness. Right-wingers saw this, freaked out, and began a boycott. The beer’s sales have subsequently plummeted; right-wingers claimed victory after the company parted ways with two executives who were responsible for the very normal brand promotion—and then continued the boycott anyway.

    The Mulvaney episode is now a playbook for the right. If a company makes any statement, however minor or tepid, in support of LGBTQ rights, launch a boycott and cause a firestorm—it doesn’t matter if anything makes sense. What matters in the end is that the company is left without any credible means of responding to the contretemps. Bud Light has backed down somewhat—again, two people lost their jobs over something extremely trivial—but it hasn’t amounted to “amends” as far as the braying lunatics who kicked off this firestorm are concerned. They have managed to turn being a mewling, whining infant into a political identity: They see a woman with some beers, and they throw a tantrum. And they don’t stop.

    […]

    Still, the biggest aspect of the ongoing Target and Bud Light brouhaha is as a naked, stupid, and often terrifying example of power—one for which a response has yet to be developed: It’s hard to see how the silent, sane majority of Target shoppers can rise up in the company’s defense. The opponents of these companies are menacing; they want to scare these brands and their employees on the front line. (Indeed, Target moved its displays citing employee safety.) They’re also hardly aimed at Target and Bud Light alone. This is a war aimed at corporate America writ large: Make any statement acknowledging the existence of anyone we don’t like, and you’re next.

    What I’d like to know is when this all changed. It wasn’t that long ago these people were losers who we all laughed at when they destroyed shit they already bought as a “boycott” and then we moved on with our lives

    Finally, I want to know what can be done about this. That New Republic article I quoted was not optimistic

  83. 83.

    Alison Rose

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Finally, I want to know what can be done about this. That New Republic article I quoted was not optimistic

    What I’d like to see is a queer version of Carrotmob:

    It uses buycotts (a form of consumer activism where a community buys a lot of goods from one company in a small time period) to reward a business’s commitment to making socially responsible changes to the business. Carrotmob also refers to a global movement of community organizers who use the Carrotmob tactic of consumer activism as a way to help change businesses in their communities. In a Carrotmob buycott, businesses compete to be the most socially responsible business, and then a network of consumers spends money to support the winner.

    When these hateful shitheads boycott a company for being even surface-level pro-LGBTQ, we need others to buycott them, not necessarily by using the competition format as Carrotmob does, but just organizing a nationwide effort to buy the company’s product or service, even if you don’t like it (me with beer, for example — I could always give it to my brother). Buy the shitty Bud Light, go to Target and get everyone’s birthday presents for the next six months from the Pride section, etc etc.

    Anti-LGBTQ bigots are actually a minority in the country, despite what they and the media want to believe. If someone with the organizing acumen could get something like this going, it has potential, if enough decent people sign on.

  84. 84.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Dan B:

    It’s startling how rapidly the focus went from the trans community to Pride / gays.  The DOJ confirms the increase in threats across the country.

    Don’t the specific article off-hand, but someone did a deep-dive into the history of the current LGB and especially T moral panic. Among other things they got their hands on a bunch of documents from the Christofascists, in which they talked openly about using anti-trans laws as the first step toward broader anti-LGBQ laws.

    Fascism.  Seems like it to me.  It also seems like the MSM and the vast majority of Americans seem to be either unaware or all too willing to discount LGBTQ fears.  It’s an ominous sign.

    Extremely ominous. The road to genocide is paved with objections that the targeted minority is overreacting.

  85. 85.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @NotMax:

    It’s Donald Wildmon redux, sowing threats and intimidation . And will peter out just as surely as it did then.

    And in the long-run we’ll all be dead. In the meantime, it’s a part of their trans genocide, rapidly metastasizing into an effort of a broader LGBTQ genocide. And not all of us will survive it.

  86. 86.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Extremely ominous. The road to genocide is paved with objections that the targeted minority is overreacting.

     

    And in the long-run we’ll all be dead. In the meantime, it’s a part of their trans genocide, rapidly metastasizing into an effort of a broader LGBTQ genocide. And not all of us will survive it.

    So then what’s the solution? How can it be stopped? Alison Rose above mentioned a potential counter to one aspect

  87. 87.

    lgerard

    It’s funny that the wingnuts calling for boycotting Target seem to have forgotten that they have already been boycotting Target for the last 7 years over the great “gender neutral bathroom” issue of 2016.

  88. 88.

    NotMax

    @Sister Golden Bear

    Oh for corn’s sake. I’m not saying sit back and wait it out. I’m saying have witnessed, in real time, these periodic eruptions previously. I remember dealing professionally with networks and advertisers, initially not a splinter of backbone among them, the lot of them huddled and quaking every time Wildmon and his ilk opened their yaps. Until they didn’t, collectively decided “Enough’s enough” and rented the fortitude to stand up in opposition, at which time the movement composed of self-appointed morality enforcers evaporated like early mist on a summer’s morn.

  89. 89.

    eversor

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I’m still not buying that this is new.  Because it’s constant.   I moderate several hardware and computer related forums and each day there is a new threat to boycott products that have gone “woke”.  These include gore fests like Mortal Kombat, and known Japanese Anime style full racial jokes and tits and ass fest Street Fighter.

    That would be stupid enough on it’s face but it’s dumber.  Because MK trippled down on the blood and guts but just added body armor to people.   Street Fighter backed off thongs for tights and removed some racial slurs and then doubled down on the size of tits, ass, biceps, camel toes, or socks in your pants for men, and then doubled down on assinine Japanese racial stereotypes and made the gay characters flaming as all fucking hell.  So nobody moderated shit.  They just sort of went with modern fashion and tastes.  For all the “I won’t buy it and I set my playstation on fire” rants they are selling better than ever.

    This huff huff also lasted about a month, and then it was all shut up about.  Because the reality is that people just wanted to use a video game as a method and tool to rant about shit that it never had anything to do with.  They also rightly got laughed off by, in the case of Capcom (who makes Street Fighter) a Japanese company that frankly does not understand out sexual and racial hangups and finds it all comedic.

    That’s how this almost always works out.  It’s a tantrum, pick popular much loved object (and I’ve been in the fighting game community since the 90s and some of the top and most beloved players have been openly trans since THEN.  See Ricky Ortiz who I think is still going by her now but started as a him and has wafted back and forth overtime and won several tournaments and it was never an issue.) and then raise a stink about it and proceed to… go right back to it.  This is why nike laughed at these fucks.

    When it comes to Target I get why they did what they did.  Target doesn’t produce a product.  Target runs retail stores.  So they have to fear real, physical violence.

    I’ve said this before here and other places but I don’t think people get that cause there is a huge gap.  The left is violent.  But it’s small.  It’s contained.  It has no political power and is curb stomped by the Democrats constantly.  It’s violence is also restricted to property damage.  The right is violent.  But it’s large.  It’s encouraged.  It has political power and is boosted by the GOP.  It’s violence is directed humans.

    And that’s the catch right fucking there.  You can show on TV a burning Starbucks, car, trashcan, or generic “riot”.  People will freak out.  But the reality of it isn’t going to shock the fuck out of someone.  And you can do this for days.  Weeks.  Months.  It’s jackassery.

    On the other hand as any of us that served will tell you we cannot show rightwing violence.  Even those who do get what “weapons of war” do to people few of them served and have seen it. Those who did get it.  It’s limbs blow clean off.  Heads spattered like melons with brains and blood and chunks of bone sprayed for feet behind.  Giant gaping holes in torsos with guts and gore all over for feet.  Children cut in half.  It’s a fucking shit show we can’t show on TV because people are going to lose their god damn minds.

    So Bud Light is a nothing.  Target is a huge thing.  You sort of need to look where there is a physical threat vs a tantrum.  I care about this and handling it properly at lot.  Because the niece to be (and in reality is), is a lesbian who might be trans and is also a minority.  I’m still trying to figure out what she, they? are.  I’m just following her lead.  I’d like to not have to conceal carry to a Target of all fucking places just because some other ass might get froggy there.  And the fact that this is a thought process for me now is fucking insane.

    As for what can be done, not much.  For me I just remain the crazy uncle that lies about taking you to church and therapy for your “disorder” and then goes to the comic books and board games shop.  I’m not sure that fixes it.  But I can do it.

  90. 90.

    JWR

    Speaking of degenerate, “woke” corporations, has anyone seen the latest Morongo Casino TV ad? In this one, an attractive, middle aged man magically morphs into a lovely young woman, both of whom are having fun. That’s it. That’s the trick. But I saw mention of the ad on the Twit machine, and some rando asked, “did they think we wouldn’t notice this?!”, as in man morphing into woman. (Try it, kids! It’s easy!) Obviously a filthy ad designed to “groom” the little ones!

  93. 93.

    smike

    @JWR:

    It’s like they don’t realize, as someone on this fine blog pointed out (sorry, don’t remember who), Eve was the first trans ever. Male rib, etc. Therefore, every woman since Eve is trans. There’s no getting around it.

  94. 94.

    JWR

    @NotMax: ;)

    Here’s an older Morongo ad of the same sort, this one featuring even more woman into man into woman action! I wonder if the latest one, which I can’t seem to find, was toned down, using only one morphing sequence simply to avoid becoming a target of the mob

    ETA I had to fix the link. Sorry!

  95. 95.

    NotMax

    @JWR

    Dropping olives one by one from a foot above into a drink? What a sad waste of overpriced hooch. The horror, the horror.

  96. 96.

    Geminid

    @smike: If someone was created out of someone else’s rib, I’m more inclined to believe that it was Eve who supplied the rib. How else would Adam and his male descendants have nipples?

    But I gotta say, I tend to disbelieve the whole story. Having the woman in question solely responsible for the evil in this fallen world does not conform to my observations of contemporary men and women.

  100. 100.

    yellowdog

    @Kent: I do. I was thinking the other day that, if we survive the next few years without descending into full-blown fascism, Biden will be considered in the top 10 presidents. Probably higher.

  102. 102.

    Aussie Sheila

    @yellowdog:

    Full blown fascism in the US is not likely. More likely is the fascism of gerrymandered states and the asinine idiots they send to Congress. Reconstruction saw the imposition of fascism on Black US citizens in the South and its legal impunity was only ended in my political lifetime. The same geographies appear again to be trying it on, against both Black citizens and anyone else that challenges the hierarchies du jour.

    There is a way to fight back. US history supplies its own lessons there. But it requires dedicated organising and relentless campaigning, and that can only happen irl, not online.

  105. 105.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @JWR: Kershaw is an idiot, everyone knows God is an Angels fan

  109. 109.

    Ksmiami

    @Aussie Sheila: Also, unified Dem rule at the National level can help win the fight by enforcing the Equal Protection under the law part of the Constitution. Send in National Troops, scrutinize funding etc.

  110. 110.

    RevRick

    @dmsilev: The House cannot operate without a Speaker. They must choose one before any official business can be conducted.

  111. 111.

    zhena gogolia

    @HumboldtBlue: How are you accessing it? I just saw an article about how it wasn’t available for streaming. I would LOVE to watch it again. So many classic episodes.

  115. 115.

    RevRick

    @Baud: The package includes an overall spending package for the next two years, with the proviso that if all twelve appropriations aren’t approved by year’s end, there will be an across the board 1% reduction. The defense budget has so much slosh in it, that Biden could probably authorize sending more material to Ukraine without any additional okays from Congress. How do you think he can announce additional packages?

  117. 117.

    Suzanne

    @HumboldtBlue: I am very grateful (to whom? to what?) that I have never been so thirsty for money and fame that I degraded myself like these spineless sycophants did around Trump. I cannot help but question the intelligence of anyone who willingly did his bidding, all because they thought they could ride that tiger to fame and fortune.

    Pattern recognition, people!

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    @Gvg: I often think that men in general suffer from X-Chromosome Deficiency Disorder. The symptoms can be very severe!

  121. 121.

    Gvg

    @Aussie Sheila: it is not the same geographies this time. It is similar, but some old south states are now blue, some union states have gone more reactionary fascist than the southern ones. A lot has to do with bad economics now and also in the decades between and migrations and who got blamed for bad things in between. Sometimes I think the bad but not quite bad enough times for truth to have to get faced are the worst for building up illogical unmovable resentments that bubble up later and can’t be reasoned with because people don’t even remember acquiring them. This is a lot of what is going on with the rural areas and religious groups blaming cities and liberals instead of things like stupid capitalism, under investment in schools or infrastructure and things that actually really caused them pain. And by stupid capitalism I mean the short term top guys get rich but workers get poor then company eventually goes bankrupt because it didn’t invest in any new products for the future that customers wanted.

    The Midwest used to be very liberal, now it’s not. Parts of it are called the rust belt. Some of the west is very repressive, other parts mind your own business. Political geography has not stayed the same. The south’s borders have shifted too.

  123. 123.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @RevRick: By minting a coin.  You know, one of those chocolate mints, wrapped in foil in the shape of a coin.

  126. 126.

    Geminid

    @RevRick: I don’t think the budget agreement prohibits additional spending measures outside it. If that is the case, Biden could request another $44 billion- the figure appropriated in last December’s Omnibus spending bill- or a smaller amount, and it could be passed if there are sufficient votes.

    There would of course be a big fight. But I do not think the terms of this agreement rule out any emergency spending measure. It sets the terms for regular spending in the next fiscal year, but the debt ceiling raise would not be revoked if Congress passes another specific funding bill, at least so far as I understand the legislation.

  127. 127.

    EarthWindFire

    @piratedan: I’m really coming to the point that the number of people in the media that have a good handle on what constitutes good government and truly understand the stakes of watching the GOP embrace fascism could fill a small high school gym.

    You’re generous. I’ve come to the point where they could fill my galley kitchen. Maybe.

  128. 128.

    Butter Emails

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    What can be done?

    1. About the boycotting? Nothing. Even bigots shouldn’t be forced to drink Bud Lite or purchase any other product.

    2. About violence, threats, slander, libel and destruction of property? The companies need to start pressing charges and burying people in lawsuits.

  129. 129.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Butter Emails:

    What can be done? 

    1. About the boycotting? Nothing. Even bigots shouldn’t be forced to drink Bud Lite or purchase any other product.

    2. About violence, threats, slander, libel and destruction of property? The companies need to start pressing charges and burying people in lawsuits.

    1. True.
    2. And slapping these bastards with their own skeletons.
  131. 131.

    Eyeroller

    @Gvg: Females are XX.

    Fun factoid: because males have only one X chromosome, and a lot of very important genes are on it, each X chromosome produces approximately twice as much protein as a “regular” (somatic) chromosome, so in each cell of a female embryo one X chromosome is randomly deactivated.  The genes that determine whether a cat’s hair is orange or black is on their X chromosome, and calico and tortie cats display the pattern of which X chromosome is active in their hairs.

  132. 132.

    Suzanne

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Finally, I want to know what can be done about this. That New Republic article I quoted was not optimistic

    The companies who are selling Pride stuff and aligning with trans people are doing it because they are betting that their stuff will sell. They’re taking a gamble that increased visibility and a bold stance will gain them more business that they’ll lose from bigots. Prove them right. Support it.

    In the long term, we win the culture wars, because our side has more people (and more money). But plenty of people can be hurt in the meantime.

    So buy their stuff. Frequent stores that do business the way you like (I like Costco, Penzeys, Pact, American Giant). I bought some of the Pride merch from Target for myself and for Spawn the Youngest, who will love the rainbow tutu!

  133. 133.

    Bupalos

    This bill is kind of an interesting alternate reality for American democracy. It’s a bill that once on the floor can pass easily with reps “freed” to do so. It can pass,likely with a supermajority and majorities in both parties. But it can only make it to the floor by the skin of its teeth under threat of immediate economic armageddon, because it doesn’t really clearly  tick partisan win boxes for anyone.

    Interesting to think how much legislation that never happens is like this. Gun control for one.

  134. 134.

    Geminid

    This morning’s Politico Playbook reviews developments in the debt ceiling matter. It sounds like McCarthy foes like Dan Bishop (NC) and Ken Buck (CO) are not so eager to try to remove him as Speaker.

    The “Fiscal Responsibility Act” will be taken up at 2 pm this afternoon, with the first votes expected around 3:30. These would include a key vote on the rule proposed by the Rules Committee, which is expected to require Democratic votes to pass. According to the Playbook reporters, the final vote should be completed by 8:30 this evening.

    President Biden is scheduled to depart for Colorado Springs this at 4:45 this afternoon. I’m guessing there will be some events tomorrow regarding emergency preparedness and forest fire fighting.

  136. 136.

    Ohio Mom

    It’s not that I’m not enjoying this thread but where is Anne Laurie? Usually — as far back as I remember — there are new posts from Anne Laurie when I wake up.

    Is she okay? Did I miss a thread were she announced she’s going on vacation?

  138. 138.

    evodevo

    @HumboldtBlue: ​
      “leave you asking yourself “where do I know them from?”
    thank goodness for IMDB and my android phone LOL – or I would continually be waking up at 3AM two days later saying: “Oh, yeah…THAT’S where I saw them!!”

  139. 139.

    The Thin Black Duke

    In the long term, our side wins the culture wars because our side has more people (and more money).

    Yep.

    I’ve been paying attention to the vitriol targeted at The Little Mermaid by the anti-woke crazies. Bottom line, the film had an enormous opening weekend for Memorial Day.

    Disney is gonna follow the money.

  142. 142.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Jackie: To add to the stupidity:

    I read (at GOS, I think), that the boycott arose from one of the braindead discovering that Chick-fil-A has a DEI director and therefore has become “woke.”

    Apparently the DEI directorship has been around for years.

    ETA: Redshift beat me to it.

  143. 143.

    evodevo

    @Jackie: ​
    Yet another thing like the Paxton impeachment that I can’t figure out WHY NOW – at this particular time? This Diversity Index thingy has been going on with Chik for a couple years….MAGAts just now figured it out? Or what?

    Or what Redshift said lol

  145. 145.

    Kay

    Guy Berger
    @EconBerger
    Since Friday is the next BLS jobs report, your periodic reminder that “Americans don’t want to work” is total nonsense. The share of prime working age Americans with a job was 80.8% in April, the highest since 2001 and well above the 25-year average.

    When unemployment is really low, you have to compete with other employers to hire people. it’s more difficult to find workers, especially when you (as an employer) don’t pay very much.

    It seems like this would be fairly obvious, but instead media and Republicans went with “workers are lazy and shiftless!” – which really tells you something about them as people. That they would reach for this insane, made-up, moralistic explanation instead of the obvious one.

  147. 147.

    Bupalos

    In the long term, our side wins the culture wars because our side has more people (and more money).

    Maybe our side wins the culture wars because, in the final analysis and after all the screaming and fear and backlashing, people just prefer freedom and equality?

  148. 148.

    rikyrah

    @Dan B:

    It was always the gays…they never really left them as society rolled past them…..

    They just used trans people as the excuse to.go.back to the gays

  149. 149.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    I ordered from Target yesterday, deliberately, not Pride stuff (replacement lampshades) just because these people piss me off. I think I’ll buy everything there.

  151. 151.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @evodevo:

    the Paxton impeachment that I can’t figure out WHY NOW – at this particular time?

    Probably some personal politics background thing.  I hear he’s been harassing his colleagues.  So it’s not ‘what crime was too great’ it’s ‘they are sick of his shit.’

    @evodevo:

    MAGAts just now figured it out?

    Yes.  Someone just recently noticed that title on the hierarchy list and DEI is one of the current red flag words.  So yeah, they literally just figured it out now.  Is that so hard to believe?

  155. 155.

    zhena gogolia

    Thanks everyone re Homicide. I think YouTube is my best bet. I never thought of looking there!

  156. 156.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Not sure whether to patronize Target or boycott them at this point. (Reminds me of the situation with Disney.)

  157. 157.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Jackie: It does seem like the Right’s anti-Woke campaign has turned into a form of paranoia.  It’s almost like they are getting out of their little bubble and realizing the rest of humanity doesn’t like Internet Trolls in real life.

  158. 158.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: Now I see that President Biden is flying to Colorado Springs this afternoon in order to speak at the Air Force Academy’s graduation tomorrow.

  159. 159.

    Bupalos

    @Alison Rose: there is nothing that will get me to buy bud light. And I consider Anheiser-Bush’s attempts to market that swill to trans and trans-friendly folks to be capitalist grooming of the worst kind.

  160. 160.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @cope: I’d prefer consigning them to a (rapidly melting) ice floe – with an extended family of extremely hungry polar bears on the next floe over. And a camera drone overhead to record the result for austerity prosperity posterity. Film at 11…10…9…8…

  163. 163.

    Suzanne

    @Bupalos:

    Maybe our side wins the culture wars because, in the final analysis and after all the screaming and fear and backlashing, people just prefer freedom and equality? 

    Well, sure. But that’s why we have more people and more money. More people, especially more of the people who matter to marketers (those with more social and financial capital), prefer freedom and equality.

  164. 164.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Easy. They’re trying to hurt Target so I will help Target. I’m sprucing up a house in MI to live in full time this summer- I need a lot of ordinary housewares! All will be purchased at Target. They deliver too.

  165. 165.

    Suzanne

    @rikyrah: RAINBOW TUTU! It’s adorable.

    Seriously, if you’re wondering how to support companies who are doing good work, just buy their stuff. I bought T-shirts from Target’s Black History Month collection for my kids because A) I like when Black artists get to sell their cool stuff at major retailers, and B) I want my white kids to have broader aspirational beauty norms than I did, growing up in the 80s and 90s. I realize that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and plenty of companies do bad shit (including Target)….. but I also want to reward companies who do the right thing, at least sometimes!

  166. 166.

    Ohio Mom

    @mrmoshpotato: I am back and I see Anne Laurie is too. I guess seeing a post from her when I wake up is a sign that the world is still turning and it’s safe to get started on my day.

  169. 169.

    Ohio Mom

    @Kay: We don’t take up any credit card offers but made an exception for Target’s Red Card. It gives you 5% off and we are always buying something there.

    It’s less than a mile from our house and I often run into neighbors there. It is a third space for my suburb.

    I looked at the Pride stuff but the one dress I liked wasn’t going to work on me. I am not a glittery dresser. I could definitely see young girls in most of it, lots of frilly and bright and sequins.

  172. 172.

    Paul in KY

    @cope: Provided they had to swim 5 miles in shark infested waters to mainland.

    Plus, they get a few nice cuts before they start out.

  173. 173.

    rikyrah

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

     This is a war aimed at corporate America writ large: Make any statement acknowledging the existence of anyone we don’t like, and you’re next.

     

    Which is why they are all behind DeSantis’ battle with Disney.

  176. 176.

    Dopey-o

    @smike: It’s like they don’t realize, as someone on this fine blog pointed out (sorry, don’t remember who), Eve was the first trans ever. Male rib, etc. Therefore, every woman since Eve is trans. There’s no getting around it.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but in the Real Genesis story, Eve was created first, then Adam. A deity who wants to fulfill Creation would start with a creature who can reproduce. It’s just geometry and theology!

    When I’m in charge, everyone will understand this.

    ETA: hat tip to Geminid for clarity and reality-based evidence!

    But I gotta say, I tend to disbelieve the whole story. Having the woman in question solely responsible for the evil in this fallen world does not conform to my observations of contemporary men and women.

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