Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

When I was faster i was always behind.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

“In this country American means white. everybody else has to hyphenate.”

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

So many bastards, so little time.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

The revolution will be supervised.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trump Indictments / Open Thread: Is This For Real?

Open Thread: Is This For Real?

by | 90 Comments

This post is in: ,

I have been working all day and I just saw this tweet:

Does god love us this much?

CNN article

Update: So Trump wouldn’t let Corcoran search Trump’s office, so Corcoran didn’t want to sign off on the document saying they had done a diligent search, but he was willing to the the female attorney sign off?  What a piece of shit.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

90Comments

  3. 3.

    Ken

    I think the shovels part is just an exaggerated way of saying they’re going after more evidence — but the thing about Trump is, you can never be 100% certain.

  4. 4.

    lollipopguild

    He feels that as president he can do anything he wants and nobody can make him pay for it. “Rules and laws for thee but not for me!”

  5. 5.

    Pete Downunder

    Saw the same report on GOS. Nothing yet in NYT or WaPo that I could find but its on CNN.

  7. 7.

    Wapiti

    My first take is that he was lying about having the document, to show off. Otherwise, why not show them and swear them to secrecy wink wink nudge nudge

    ETA: Not saying the FBI shouldn’t toss Bedminster. Wouldn’t be prudent not to look.

  8. 8.

    WaterGirl

    @Ken: Well, I didn’t mean literally for real.  But I would be thrilled if they went to Bedminster looking for documents.

    And where is the -ex Mrs. Trump buried?  I know there’s someone who wants that grave dug up for classified documents and other treasures.

  12. 12.

    New Deal democrat

    @Ken: OMG, the gag about the missing classified documents being buried in Ivana’s pauper’s grave might be true after all….

  13. 13.

    Pete Downunder

    Also too from Guardian USA:

     Jack Smith, who is also investigating Trump’s handling of classified documents, has subpoenaed former Trump White House staffers as well as Christopher Krebs, who oversaw the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (Cisa) under Trump, the Times said, citing unnamed source

  15. 15.

    Scout211

    In case you can’t click through, an excerpt from the CNN EXCLUSIVE: Trump captured on tape talking about classified document he kept after leaving the White House

    Federal prosecutors have obtained an audio recording of a summer 2021 meeting in which former President Donald Trump acknowledges he held onto a classified Pentagon document about a potential attack on Iran, multiple sources told CNN, undercutting his argument that he declassified everything.

    The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records, two of the sources said.

    CNN has not listened to the recording, but multiple sources described it. One source said the relevant portion on the Iran document is about two minutes long, and another source said the discussion is a small part of a much longer meeting.

    . . .
    Prosecutors have asked witnesses about the recording and the document before a federal grand jury. The episode has generated enough interest for investigators to have questioned Gen. Mark Milley, one of the highest-ranking Trump-era national security officials, about the incident.

    The July 2021 meeting was held at Trump’s golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey, with two people working on the autobiography of Trump’s former chief of staff Mark Meadows as well as aides employed by the former president, including communications specialist Margo Martin. The attendees, sources said, did not have security clearances that would allow them access to classified information. Meadows didn’t attend the meeting, sources said.

  16. 16.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ken:

    I think the shovels part is just an exaggerated way of saying they’re going after more evidence — but the thing about Trump is, you can never be 100% certain. 

    Isn’t his first Eurotrash wife’s grave on that golf course?

  18. 18.

    Rebel’s Dad

    I don’t have a car, but I live in Newark so if one of y’all will pick me up I’m happy to help shovel!

  19. 19.

    prostratedragon

    @Wyatt Salamanca:  Often of late I’ve thought of the Liebowitz Principle: you do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. Applies to all conceivable sets of acquaintance.

  20. 20.

    mrmoshpotato

    “But her emails!”

    “I’d vote for a woman, just not that woman.”

    🖕🖕🖕

  22. 22.

    Rebel’s Dad

    @New Deal democrat: Wingnut’s Law: Every accusation is a confession.

    Trump’s Corollary to Wingnut’s Law: Every gag or joke has a giant kernel of truth in it.

  23. 23.

    Bill Arnold

    The media is starting to glimpse how close the USA was to a catastrophic Trump-driven war with Iran.

  24. 24.

    Ken

    @WaterGirl: And where is the -ex Mrs. Trump buried?

    Bedminster.

    It’s possible the investigators are getting a warrant to search the golf club, since it seems Trump was taking (and leaving) the classified documents everywhere.

  25. 25.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:

    I know there’s someone who wants that grave dug up for classified documents and other treasures.

    Oh yeah. Me, for one.

  27. 27.

    Matt McIrvin

    In the media you can stay out of trouble by flooding them with so many stories about your misdeeds that they don’t have time to dig deep into any one of them. Maybe that doesn’t work with prosecutors?

  30. 30.

    oldgold

    The document being discussed on this tape is a plan for militarily attacking Iran. Another document Trump kept was our analysis of Iran’s nuclear program. Now, who would be interested in this information on Iran?

    I will be damn surprised if the $audis are not involved in this.

    My guess is the Israelis know plenty about this too.

  31. 31.

    Jim, Foolish Literlist

    @Scout211:  this is wild and scary and pathetic all at once

    The meeting in which Trump discussed the Iran document with others happened shortly after The New Yorker published a story by Susan Glasser detailing how, in the final days of Trump’s presidency, Milley instructed the Joint Chiefs to ensure Trump issued no illegal orders and that he be informed if there was any concern. The story infuriated Trump.
    Glasser reported that in the months following the election, Milley repeatedly argued against striking Iran and was concerned Trump “might set in motion a full-scale conflict that was not justified.” Milley and others talked Trump out of taking such a drastic action, according to the New Yorker story.
    On the recording and in response to the story, Trump brings up the document, which he says came from Milley. Trump told those in the room that if he could show it to people, it would undermine what Milley was saying, the sources said. One source says Trump refers to the document as if it is in front of him.

  34. 34.

    WaterGirl

    So Trump wouldn’t let Corcoran search Trump’s office, so Corcoran didn’t want to sign off on the document saying they had done a diligent search, but he was willing to the the female attorney sign off?  What a piece of shit.

  35. 35.

    Scout211

    Interesting.  Tuberville’s top military adviser bows out (warning:  Politico)

    Apparently, Tuberville wants all the credit for stalling all military promotions.

     

    Morgan Murphy says he resigned after a Washington Post story suggested he took credit for the senator’s military nomination blockade.
    Sen. Tommy Tuberville’s (R-Ala.) national security adviser told POLITICO that he has resigned over a Washington Post story suggesting he was instrumental in orchestrating the senator’s controversial blockade of hundreds of senior military nominations.

    A profile by the Washington Post on Friday depicted Morgan Murphy as taking credit for Tuberville’s hold, which has roiled the Department of Defense. The blockade is a response to the Pentagon’s abortion travel policy, which Tuberville opposes.

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    @WaterGirl: How does that not completely trash Corcoran’s reputation as a respected attorney?

    Also, someone (I forget who) said that at attorney of Corcoran’s level doesn’t just let the “body man” tell him where he can and cannot search, so there is speculation that Trump may have been directly involved in that conversation.

  37. 37.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Yup! And I’ve always believed that barbers and hairdressers have among the most gratifying of professions. Whenever you walk in, you’re shaggy and unkempt. When you walk out, you invariably look FABulous!!

  38. 38.

    artem1s

    @WaterGirl: ​
     

    And where is the -ex Mrs. Trump buried? I know there’s someone who wants that grave dug up for classified documents and other treasures.

    Honestly I was actually hoping he was referring to digging up the fairways and the greens. It will really chap TFG’s ass if they go digging holes in his crappy course.
    That poor woman has been through enough. But it serves that cheap asshole right if they do exhume, for burying her there instead of buying a plot at an actual cemetery.

  41. 41.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Scout211:

    I was today years old when I learned that Tommy Tuberville’s middle name is Hawley, and now I’m obsessed with finding out if he and Josh Hawley are related.

  42. 42.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl: Agreed. But IMO, there are many (if not all) attorneys on Trump’s various legal teams that are now defending themselves by making it seem as though Trump was the boss of them, even in legal matters when they, as his attorneys, should have intervened.

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    @WaterGirl:

    Or, as my BIL put it “I sure wasn’t gonna vote for the lying bitch!” 

    I’m sorry your sister married a fool.

  44. 44.

    Scout211

    Abbott appoints interim attorney general in Texas following Paxton’s impeachment

    Anyone from Texas know anything about this guy?

    Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday appointed former Secretary of State John Scott to temporarily serve as attorney general after the state House of Representatives impeached Ken Paxton.

    “John Scott has the background and experience needed to step in as a short-term interim Attorney General during the time the Attorney General has been suspended from duty,” Abbott said in a statement Wednesday. “His decades of experience and expertise in litigation will help guide him while serving as the state’s top law enforcement officer.”

  45. 45.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    @mrmoshpotato:

    @prostratedragon:

    Even with this Mt. Everest volume of evidence revealing Trump’s corruption, he’s still the overwhelming favorite to win the Republican nomination.  And all of the assholes running against him will shout from the rooftops “Nothing to see here folks” whenever one of these stories is published.

  46. 46.

    Geminid

    @oldgold: Regarding the “attack plan,” I’d be surprised if Milley gave Trump anything an open source analyst could not surmise. But Classified is Classified, and this could be good evidence of intent.

    The intelligence estimate of Iran’s nuclear program would be of interest to the Saudis and Russia too, especially if it disclosed sources and methods. But the U.S. intelligence agencies learned early on that Trump was not to be trusted though, and they most likely screened estimates provided Trump very carefully.

    The Israelis might be curious, but they already know more about Iran’s nuclear program than anyone besides the Iranians.

  47. 47.

    RSA

    How hard is it to return shit that doesn’t belong to you?

    Most Americans learn this as kids, when they get a library card.

  48. 48.

    Kirk

    @Scout211:

    Let me brief.

    Deputy AG Scott was Abbot’s secretary of state from 2021 to January of this year. His primary focus was the “integrity of the election” — yes, the Texas rules and issues from the government side were his.

    Even though he’s the deputy AG he’s a registered and active lobbyist (yes that’s legal in Texas).

    Not sure you need more details to know what he is.

  49. 49.

    gene108

    @Scout211:

    I will never understand why one Senator objecting to something can block all Senate action on that specific thing.

    Senate needs to overhaul more rules than just the filibuster. It’s a broken institution.

  51. 51.

    Hob

    @artem1s: To be clear, that tweet is not from Jack Smith, it’s from an Internet rando who goes by that name. I’ve seen some speculation that maybe it’s someone who’s actually in DOJ and knows things, but I sure wouldn’t count on it– at least, if that’s true then I would say that person is an irresponsible attention-seeker and shouldn’t be doing it, because why would a sensible and well-meaning person take the slightest chance of being mistaken for their boss by people who don’t read super carefully?

  52. 52.

    Geminid

    So Mark Meadows had two people collaborating on his autobiography. And they were interviewing Trump about what Meadows did. What is that about? I’m kind of interested on Meadows’ account, but a grand jury may have had first dibs. Meadows could end up writing the last chapters in a prison cell.

    The memoir I really want to see is the one written by the other Mark: Mark Milley. He’ll retire soon, and I do not think he will wait very long to tell his story. It will be his side, so it will need to be read critically. But I don’t expect Milley to cut Trump one millimeter of slack. I think he hates Trump’s guts.

  53. 53.

    ColoradoGuy

    I had originally thought that yeah, T****’s aides would be sleazy enough to slip some documents into the coffin, just to keep them away from the FBI. No proof they did, but they’re certainly capable of it … look at the kind of people who work for T****.

    But it just occurred to me … maybe the ex-wife is actually in a New Jersey landfill somewhere, and the coffin is crammed full of dangerous documents? I wouldn’t put it past any of them … they’re all wannabe mobsters, and that would be right up their alley.

  57. 57.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Geminid:

    Interesting you would say that now. I was just talking with my friend and mentioned how I was eagerly awaiting Milley’s memoirs, and my friend agreed and said Milley’s would really be the only political memoirs he’d care to read.

  58. 58.

    Maxim

    @oldgold: Maybe the country that’s currently purchasing drones and missiles from them? It would certainly be TFG’s first thought, how something might be useful to Putin. Well, okay, his second thought, since his first thought is always what’s in it for him.

  60. 60.

    Dan B

    @Scout211:  Scott ran an investigation of the Pennsylvania election where Biden prevailed.  He did the same in some counties in Texas.

  61. 61.

    sdhays

    @ColoradoGuy: People were saying the coffin seemed unusually heavy, but the only way to know for sure is to dig it up. Or maybe use some sonic imaging like they use for looking for fossils first?

    Wasn’t it also odd since she had requested to be buried somewhere else? I didn’t pay much attention at the time because they’re all horrible people, including the deceased.

  62. 62.

    prostratedragon

    @sdhays: since she had requested to be buried somewhere else
    So that’s a known fact. I’d assumed that was the case, to the point that I’d have taken a bet on it with my nonwagering self.

  63. 63.

    Gvg

    @SiubhanDuinne: unfortunately I think retired military officers memoirs have to be cleared by some government agency to make sure they don’t reveal classified info accidentally and it takes time. Intelligence people too. I don’t know the details but it’s come up with other people. So I don’t know how long it will be before you can see this, nor how detailed he can be.

  64. 64.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Bombshell in MAL investigation. I’ll discuss 7pm ET @ErinBurnett @OutFrontCNN

    “Audio recording” in which Trump “acknowledges he held onto a classified Pentagon document about a potential attack on Iran” Scoop by @kpolantz @PaulaReidCNN @kaitlancollins

    2. Audio recording is a meeting with several people who don’t have security clearances. If Trump discussed content of document it is even worse – and raises its own criminal exposure. These individuals are all likely good witnesses, with disincentive to lie given their number.

    3. Bedminster CNN: The audio recording shows prosecutors “are not only looking at Trump’s actions regarding classified documents recovered from his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, but also at what happened at Bedminster” summer 2021. That’s where meeting occurred.

    4. War plans are among the most highly classified documents. Puts pressure on DOJ to indict, and a jury to convict.

    5. As CNN reporting notes, this recording also goes to show knowledge and intent: “The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House.”

    6. The recording also appears to knock a hole in already very weak (non-defense) defense of declassification: “On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records.”

    7. Make no mistake. This is squarely an Espionage Act case. It is not simply an “obstruction” case. There is now every reason to expect former President Trump will be charged under 18 USC 793(e) of the Espionage Act. The law fits his reported conduct like a hand in glove.

    8. Prosecutors do not need to show motive for conviction, but it helps with a jury. CNN report suggests motives: To hold onto docs as trophies, to use to settle scores or try to retain control over the narrative – here to try (in vain) to contradict @sbg1‘s reporting on Milley.

    9. NYT corroborates CNN scoop plus with this specificity: “Trump then began referencing a document that he had with him,” saying it was compiled by Gen. Milley and related to attacking Iran. That he had with him.

  65. 65.

    Tony G

    @lollipopguild: Trump has never been held accountable for anything, ever since he was a pampered rich boy.  He’s dumb enough to think that this will never change, so he doesn’t bother to cover his tracks.

  67. 67.

    Ruckus

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It’s not that he wants to get caught, although to any sane person that looks like the obvious answer.

    He wants the world to see him as the smartest, highest level of human being. I mean, you do know he was president, right? (OK no more sarcasm)

    He has an ego bigger than all outdoors, which goes with his level of human skills, except in reverse. His skills are non existent. OK except for breathing, every other skill in the human playbook he strikes out at. Except asshole. He’s got ego and asshole down pat.

    He thinks he’s so good and so righteous that he can do anything he wants and the world has to applaud at his greatness.

    If he wasn’t so, so wrong it might be funny. But he is and it isn’t.

    Started writing this hours ago but found out my sister passed away yesterday and have spent the time talking to family around the country. She’s been sick – cancer. It reached the final stage late last night.

  68. 68.

    Ruckus

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    We see him move, we unfortunately hear his voice, and we know he’s a doofus – at the very least – but actually measuring that level of doofus, ignorance, assholeishness and pompous arrogance has so little comparison that quantifying it is impossible. But most of us know it when we see/hear it.

  72. 72.

    Ruckus

    @strange visitor (from another planet):

    Thanks.

    My father was the only one in the family that didn’t get cancer – and he got Alzheimers. Both sisters passed from breast cancer, mom caught it early enough. Her sister didn’t. And I had prostate cancer. Cancer is a stone cold bitch. All of you do yourselves a favor and get checked regularly, especially as you get older.

  74. 74.

    VOR

    @artem1s: There was speculation at the time that Ivana’s burial served as a dodge to change the tax status of the Trump property. I am not an accountant, don’t ask me if that’s true.

  75. 75.

    Ruckus

    @stinger:

    Thank you.

    It’s life, it starts, it goes on, it stops, it starts, it goes on, it stops, ad infinitum

    If we can make a decent life out of it, all the better. I can’t and won’t speak for my sister, but I did talk to her a couple of weeks ago and it was likely the best discussion we’ve had in decades. Not all families are sweetness and light, ours had it’s good and not so good moments, I spent more time talking to my nephew today about life, his, mine, his mom who passed 15 yrs ago, (he’s my other sister’s kid), and his aunt than I can recall ever talking to him before. And while the reason for the discussion was not good, the discussion was. Life moves on, it happens to all of us and it’s what we do with it that matters most. My sister, my last immediate family member, passed late last night. She’s not suffering any longer from cancer that made it difficult to even speak. She will be missed. She’s no longer suffering.

    I am now the leader of the extended family. Or at least the oldest.

  76. 76.

    pieceofpeace

    @Ruckus: So sorry to read about your sister.  May you smile inwardly and outwardly as shared times remind you of good times with her.

    Also, must mention your writing is enjoyed and appreciated.

  78. 78.

    tokyocali (formerly tokyo ex-pat)

    @Ruckus: I’m so sorry. I’m also dealing with the death in the family. My mother passed away Saturday. I tried to arrive in time from Tokyo but didn’t make it. I’m glad you had some good conversations with her. Treasure those.

    As an update, I haven’t really had a chance to grieve. The house is packed with stuff everywhere. Mom was a hoarder and it’s been a nightmare of trying to go through everything. She had bins full of clothes still in the packaging, jewelry from online shopping never worn, and pots and pans and pots and pans. It’s exhausting. It’s now seared into my brain that I will not do this to my sons. I will clean up so that they do not have to wade through piles of junk.

  80. 80.

    Ruckus

    @tokyocali (formerly tokyo ex-pat):

    I’ve been through this so many times over the years I’ve lost count. My mom had 3 sisters and a brother. My grand parents have been gone for decades, my mom’s dad had a heart attack playing tennis with her, in 1931. I of course never met him. I was 5 when her mother died. One cousin died at 4 months old and his mom died a year later. And it goes on, till last night. My other grandparents passed in 68 and 72. My dad passed in 2001, mom in 2012, All my aunts, uncles, have been gone for a while. So while it’s always sad and it has been a somewhat continuous process getting here to where I’m the oldest in the extended family. Not saying one gets all that used to it, but the experience loses some of it’s hard edge when you been going through it pretty regularly for almost 70 yrs.

    I’ve been on the phone most of the day, talking to family. I have 3 people left to call and I’m doing that tomorrow.

    I really, really want to thank everyone for their condolences.

    This is a grand place John has provided for humans to talk/discuss/argue/relax/get pissed off/vent/just be a damn human being. I’ve been checking in here for almost 20 yrs and it has always been a great place to discuss most anything. I started a website to have discussions about the time I found BJ. It didn’t take me long to realize that I’d never get to where I wanted to go, which was the twin of this place, because it already existed.

    Thank You John. You are a good man.

    I don’t care what everyone says.

  84. 84.

    Paul in KY

    @oldgold: Would think Iran would also be interested. Get to see how much info we have. Maybe figure out where/who it came from, etc. etc.

    Iranian money spends just as well as Saudi.

  86. 86.

    Paul in KY

    @Hob: I think the internet ‘Jack Smith’ is supposed to be acting sorta like Key did as Pres. Obama’s ‘Anger Translator’.

  90. 90.

    Chris Johnson

    @ColoradoGuy: The coffin could be empty, because it was a drop.

    as in, Russian mobsters got there before the feds did, and emptied the cache as Trump meant them to.

    What’s the point of committing treason in order to get classified documents to convey to your masters and hiding them in order NOT to convey them? If simply getting pictures of them was good enough there would be no reason he couldn’t give the stuff back when asked, so long as he’d copied it all. If it’s so important to cling onto it, then somebody wants the original documents, and that means he HAS to stash that stuff and hide it, because it’s not really his to hang onto: it’s for giving to his masters.

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