Apparently there’s a musical movement in Peru called Qpop
It emulates the aesthetics and musical styles of K-pop, but it’s done by indigenous Quechua speakers
In an added twist the biggest band’s lead singer is named *Lenin* Tamayo
— Andrés Pertierra (@ASPertierra) August 24, 2023
Global global music! Yes, it’s real, per the AP — “Q-Pop: Peru’s social media phenomenon Lenin Tamayo fuses Quechua and K-pop”:
What happens when you take Quechua, the most widely spoken Indigenous language in the Americas, and fuse it with K-pop, the global musical sensation with roots in South Korea?
Ask Lenin Tamayo, who has become a social media phenomenon with “Q-pop” and released his first digital album this week.
Tamayo grew up listening to his mother, a Peruvian folk artist who sings in Spanish and Quechua, a language shared by 10 million speakers in countries including Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil, Bolivia, Argentina and Chile. As a teenager, K-pop became his passion and helped him find a group of like-minded female classmates who helped fight the bullying he says he faced at school for his Indigenous looks.
Now himself a musician, the 23-year-old Tamayo has fused those chapters, mixing Spanish and Quechua lyrics with K-pop beats to create Q-pop (in which the “Q” stands for “Quechua”). He’s amassed more than 4.4 million likes on his TikTok account and released five digital singles online…
However, Wikipedia claims the moniker for Kazahkstan — per Youtube, going back to 2015!
======
Also political protest music:
"HERE HE AM!" ??@RandyRainbow is a wicked wit, an unparalleled musical master of parody & a national treasure, full stop. Every time I think he can't top himself, he does it AGAIN.#TherapeuticHilarity ?????? https://t.co/3FM6u5wQR7
— Mark Hamill (@MarkHamill) August 22, 2023
(Randy Rainbow, on tour this fall.)
======
Another twist in the latest musical ‘Culture War’ kerfuffle…
Rich men North of Richmond singer says “it’s aggravating seeing people on conservative news try to identify with me like I’m one of them.”
He says it’s funny they used it in the GOP debate because “I wrote that song about them.” pic.twitter.com/jlzoEDSs4p
— Sawyer Hackett (@SawyerHackett) August 25, 2023
conservatives got a hold of a clip of the astroturfed country song guy saying america is a "melting pot" and now he's fucking cancelled. also potentially a cia agent pic.twitter.com/sZSafwt5bo
— america's lounge singer (@KrangTNelson) August 22, 2023
A folk musicians fans haven’t been this disappointed since Dylan did his electric set at Newport https://t.co/oOEWYDIsU5
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) August 26, 2023
Since there’s a lot of my fellow Old Folkies here — Billy Bragg remains indefatigable.
Since I saw that clip of Oliver Anthony singing 'Rich Men North of Richmond', the ghost of Woody Guthrie has been whispering in my ear. So today I sat down and wrote this response https://t.co/IVLTTJrXCo
— Billy Bragg (@billybragg) August 20, 2023
Professor Bigfoot
Absent Black music from the USA, K-pop would not exist.
What does K-pop have that Michael Jackson did not explore or create?
Just saying that as usual, Black culture is being erased.
Edited to add: WHAT? ME? FIRST??
Shalimar
Gingers are the only true white people.
Ken
I saw “Q-pop” and cringed, but thank goodness, it’s not from the Q-anon cult.
Baud
Really, what choice do downtrodden white working class people have except to support a rich real estate developer from New York City?
OzarkHillbilly
@Shalimar: My sons thought I was black until they reached 5 & 7 (I think). Led to some hilarious moments.
Ramalama
Mad props to Billy Bragg. I love that dude. And I wore out several albums of his (wore my ears out?) in order to keep the awesomeness coming in.
LiminalOwl
Does Josh Marshall think that folk fans are the same political demographic as (stereotypical) Country fans, or am I misunderstanding him? PSA: while far less ethnically diverse than I would like, Folk fans are (in my fairly extensive experience) as liberal/left-leaning a group as you’ll find anywhere in the US.
(I actually have not listened to Oliver Anthony’s song and don’t plan to. I have read the lyrics and read/listened to numerous commentaries; Beau of the Fifth Column is, as so often, my favorite.)
More to the point, thanks for the reminder of Q-Pop. I listened to someof it, https://youtu.be/JAUxqH5JpMw?si=ftsKTo5tYcMsNapPa while ago and enjoyed it, although my attempt to learn a bit of Quechua was entirely unsuccessful. I need to find more.
eta: sorry for formatting issues, which editing isn’t fixing. Two separate links.
geg6
@Ken:
Had the same initial reaction.
And Billy Bragg has it right.
raven
Damn, my BIL and his son just left the beach house on the Outer Banks. Fortunately not a word of politics was spoken in three days (that was supposed to be two but they decided to stay with us an extra night). The mid 20-s kid has had a rough go with Non-Hodgkin lymphoma out of high school and a battle with addiction since the treatment. His dad was happy he’s been clean for four months but both of them drank nearly all day yesterday and I couldn’t be happier that they left. I see no way this kid is going to be able to beat drug addiction, especially with the parental approved alcohol. I guess it’s not my problem.
raven
Not the greatest vid but, since I’m feeling pretty old today.
As part of the “Big Day Out” celebrations in Glasgow during 1990, one of the settings was the waterfront here at Custom House Quay, where Natalie Merchant and Michael Stipe sang – supported on guitar by Billy Bragg – the classic John Prine song “Hello In There”
OzarkHillbilly
@LiminalOwl: Pretty sure Josh doesn’t know any folkies and how socialist we tend to be.
NotMax
REMINDER
NYC Meet-up
Sunday, September 3rd, 4 – 8 p.m.
The Baylander
Take the A or the 1 subway to 125th Street, then the M125 bus west to St. Claire Place stop (or can walk west). The Baylander is on the Hudson River at 125th street.
Reservations made under the pseudonym Jack Alworthy.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: That’s too bad, and “the parental approved alcohol” is a bad sign. Not much one can do except hope that there are some salvageable pieces left after the inevitable crash.
LiminalOwl
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, that was my guess. As I’m sure you know too, Billy Bragg is one of the greatest, but he’s far from alone in the folk community.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Yea, it doesn’t look good from here but nobody asked me. The biggest kicker is that the father is all up into that Jesus shit too. He laid off me (wonder why) but he did mention that he got up and did his “devotions” this morning. Like I give a fuck. I have nearly 30 years of sobriety under my belt and these folks reinforce my decision.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Thanx for that. Natalie is a favorite of mine and that song always brings a tear to my eye.
Spanky
@NotMax:
I see what you did there.
narya
@Shalimar: Well, except we turn polka-dotted when exposed to sun, so . . .
Quinerly
I adore Billy Bragg. This interview is from a few days ago:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=03AIglOE6CE&pp=ygUnYmlsbHkgYnJhZ2cgcmljaCBtYW4gbm9ydGggb2YgYSBtaWxsaW9u
narya
@raven: Maybe that’s the only thing you can provide for the kid–that you know some stuff about alcohol if he ever wants to know. Knowing that you’re a resource may be the only thing you can do right now. Still, my heart aches a little for him (and for you, watching).
Geminid
In the early 2000s I got to work alongside a crew of Bolivian stonemasons on some big projects. They grew up speaking Quechua and Spanish was their second language. They were the best masons on site and they knew it. Their teamork was impressive.
The Bolivians would take a break every afternoon at 3pm and sit at the edge of the jobsite. I thought they were just drinking sodas and yakking, but I figured out later that they were also chewing some coca leaves before working until 5:30.
raven
@narya: Yea, I see tombstones in his eyes.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
hueyplong
Josh Marshall probably knows the difference but just had to force a reference to Dylan’s electric set once the similarly outraged reactions came to mind. Pretty sure he knows there weren’t a lot of Confederate battle flags at Newport.
The right wingers’ instant pivot from obnoxious triumphalism to nearly violent outrage is an unexpected treat.
rikyrah
@Professor Bigfoot:
Cultural appropriation rooted in Anti-Blackness.
Take the culture and pretend those who created it don’t exist 😒😒🙄🙄
K-Mo
@OzarkHillbilly: I think you and @LiminalOwlare reading too much into Josh’s comment. It was just a snarky allusion to a famous (infamous? legendary?) kerfuffle between an artist and his audience. I don’t think he was trying to say that the Richmond guy is another Dylan, or that the idiots east of Mussolini who glommed onto this song are like folkies. He could have said something about the Chicks or Bruce Springsteen and it would have had the same meaning.
Frankensteinbeck
While I am delighted by Oliver Anthony’s feelings on diversity and his attitude towards conservative politicians, wow, the lyrics from his song sure read like a conservative whine-fest to me. “My tax money is being wasted on lazy moochers by politicians from up North!” Apparently he does not assume that the moochers and deserving are divided by skin color like his peers do.
Ramalama
@raven: Nice video. But now I want to see more of the acts that day. As seen in the liner notes:
Holy cow.
Suzanne
@raven: Oooooof, that’s hard. It’s so difficult for anyone to envision a different way of being when they can’t really see it modeled anywhere.
Suzanne
@Frankensteinbeck:
I get frustrated with people who behave in shitty, anti-social, criminal fashion. In my experience, that’s not a cohort defined by a racial boundary.
Musing on the POS who broke into my house while hopped up on meth: white dude, registered Republican.
Betty Cracker
@raven: Don’t know how long y’all are staying on the Outer Banks, but if it’s through next week, keep an eye on Gulf storm #10. Looks like it will eventually make its way up there.
Baud
@Frankensteinbeck:
I never actually listened to the song, but I can see why the MAGA were misled.
OzarkHillbilly
@K-Mo: Maybe, but I have run into waaayyy too many people over the years who never listen to either but think folk and country are the same or at least kissing cousins.
Suzanne
@OzarkHillbilly: Did you read this New Yorker piece about liberal country musicians?
Gvg
@Professor Bigfoot: the racists try but don’t succeed. Just FYI, white woman middle class old person who wasn’t even that obsessive about my generation’s music and I find the idea black musicians weren’t a major part of it silly. Jazz and then rock came from black influence. I understand blues, soul, gospel did too but I don’t know those. I know rap did, but that trend annoyed me, for losing a black influence I preferred, back beats and syncopation. Rap seemed too monotonous to me and felt slow so I tuned out, aside from the early stuff I heard was misogynistic. Anyway, they can’t re write history and it makes them look pathetic IMO.
i can’t write the ads or memes because I am too literal but I hope others will . This is so dumb, it seems like a good way to laugh and weaken them.
OzarkHillbilly
@Suzanne: No (thanx for the linky) but I know they exist and listen to a # of them (Jason Isbell anyone?). Tho I don’t pick my music by the musician’s politics, too much good stuff out there from all over the spectrum.
hueyplong
What’s funny to me is not just that the performer mousetrapped Internet Troll Nation but that their ingrained “checkmate, libz!” mentality wouldn’t permit a confession that they had been tricked or that they had jumped the gun. No, it had to be a CIA conspiracy. They’re not credulous rubes, they’re victims of the Deep State and it allies among the melanin-enhanced and the rootless cosmopolitans.
Jeffro
“Despicable Antiwhite Psyops” = my new punk band
Baud
@hueyplong:
Torn over whether that should be the name of the band or an album.
artem1s
@LiminalOwl:
thanks for the link. I also have read some of the lyrics and read a few takes on the buzz around the song after the GQP did their usual stellar job of latching onto a couple of phrases after completely missing the larger message and/or subtext. But I have no interest in doing any kind of deep dive into what this guy is about. Beau’s initial take is pretty much the same as mine. Sounds like a bunch of small government libertarian bullshit. But I’m kind of surprised he didn’t ID a possible source of the muddle political message – JD Vance. IMO we are going to have a couple of decades of Hillbilly Elegy worship in our future. Good news it may finally push Ayn Rand worship out as the go to ‘bible’ for young anti-government conservatives.
“There are two novels that can change a White, bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and
Atlas ShruggedHillbilly Elegy. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession withits unbelievableheroesboot strapping ones way out of poverty and being embarrassed by your poor relatives and down punching on those who didn’t manage to get out, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”hueyplong
@Baud: The obvious answer is a self-titled debut album.
Spanky
Obligatory headline in today’s WaPo regarding rich men north of Richmond:
I’m shocked! Shocked! Sez the retired govt contractor
ETA never at Booz though.
hueyplong
@Jeffro: I’m unsure how such things work here, but is there a way to make “despicable anti-white psyops” a tag line?
Maybe even rename the site?
Jeffg166
@Shalimar: I have had more bad sunburns to know it. I feel like I am part vampire I avoid the sun as much as I can.
Baud
@hueyplong:
Given that the blog father is a portly bearded white gentleman in his 50s who lives in rural West Virginia and used to be a staunch conservative Republican, the new name would be apt.
Spanky
@Spanky: Oh, btw:
hueyplong
@Baud: I can relate to old, white, and born in West Virginia. Cole should probably consider joining us in the ridge-runner diaspora.
catclub
@Betty Cracker:
I think the last big walloping the Outer Banks got from a hurricane was around 1954. A lot has been built up since then.
kalakal
@hueyplong:
To be fair they’re everywhere in Southern Appalachia. Place is infested with them. And they’re spreading. Why only the other day in an Ohio diner I saw an NYT reporter have to pass 3 tables before he found a
local GOP repReal American to interviewKay
I predicted he would turn out to be another online Nazi like so many Right winger celebrities and he isn’t that, but this is still a bad song, IMO:
Wah, wah, wah. Also, someone should tell him hourly workers often seek to work overtime because they’re paid time and a half, due to labor laws. No one complains about their hourly overtime wage, nitwit.
I’m just not taking anyone seriously if they pretend to be interested in working people and don’t recognize that Joe Biden is the best President for working people (and labor) in our lifetimes. This is just a fact. Biden’s NLRB issues a new pro working people rule just about every month. They’ve undone nearly all of the anti labor Trump rules and are now working on undoing the anti labor GW Bush rules. Four more years of Biden and we’ll be rolling back the Reagan anti labor rules.
Hating on food stamp recipients is silly and petty and beside the point.
brantl
It’s amazing how this butthurt bunch of WLTAB can call liberals snowflakes.
M31
is there a song about “blue state tax money wasted on those lazy red state moochers?”
Liminal Owl
@NotMax: Looks like the Thin Black Duke and I won’t be able to attend. I’m sorry. Hope to meet you and others another time.
Van Buren
@Baud: It’s my wife’s go-to cocktail!
Kay
My middle son is working in NC this month. His union negotiated the Toledo local hourly rate (much higher than the NC rate) PLUS 10% and per diem. There has not been a better time to be an hourly worker in my lifetime. They have a lot of leverage. That’s why the “rich men” will be opposing Joe Biden and Kamala Harris with every fiber of their being, but, sure, Republicans and Democrats are exactly the same.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Spanky: wasn’t Snowden at Booz?
Ramalama
@hueyplong:
Am reminded of The Colbert Report with Stephen Colbert playing a conservative…and numerous conservatives eating it up, not realizing it was satire.
Edmund dantes
@Kay: guy’s youtube playlist was full of conspiracy stuff if I recall correctly. He’s most definitely a “pox on all their houses type”.
Kay
@Edmund dantes: ‘
They use Epstein to “prove” that there is a huge elite sex trafficking ring, but that’s what conspiarcy theories are always based in- there’s always a kernel of truth and spun outward from there. That’s the definition of a conspiracy theory, not a rationale for believing one.
Kay
@Edmund dantes:
I just assumed he would turn out to be a online Nazi because all of their heroes end up being horrible people because they’re terrible judges of character, but I was wrong here. He does not seem to be a Nazi. Still somewhat horrible though- a lyric that includes “pounds” and “fudge rounds” is just not genius.
Josie
OMG, I just read this on Political Wire:
“A barrage of state and federal criminal charges leveled against your main political rival should be good news for any democratic leader facing reelection, but Donald Trump’s legal woes present U.S. President Joe Biden with a unique challenge in the months ahead,” Reuters reports.”
It could have been written by DougJ.
Baud
@Josie:
Hahahaha.
ETA: Tell me they mentioned Hunter Biden.
Matt McIrvin
@Ramalama: I eventually got the impression that most of the conservative fans of the Colbert Report did know it was satire–they just thought there was a third esoteric layer to it we were missing, that Colbert was a conservative pretending to be a liberal pretending to be a conservative.
It’s not so far-fetched, because Colbert himself said there were instances, a small fraction of the time, when that was kind of true. I think the character worked because Colbert really had the background and personality that often leads one to become a right-winger, so while he wasn’t one, he understood the mindset and it rang true. And on occasion he’d sincerely harbor a more or less conservative attitude on some subject and it would come through in the questions he asked as the right-winger character.
Other MJS
Vulcans protest their culture being co-opted.
Josie
@Baud: Sadly, they missed their opportunity to do that.
Kay
The song should be titled “why wages are low in the south”. If they can get you to focus exclusively on how much you hate women who use food stamps and the outrage of government collecting payroll taxes you’l never get around to demanding a wage increase. Hence- lower hourly wages.
OzarkHillbilly
From Arwa Mahdawi comes this little tidbit:
My wife might take some convincing of that. Not that they don’t love her, they certainly do, she is the treat giver after all. But they truly hate it when I leave them at home.
Miss Bianca
@hueyplong: According to some accounts I’ve read, the booing at the Newport Folk Festival was not due to the fact that Dylan was electrified, per se, but rather that the sound quality was so bad.
Jeffro
Btw this is some Thiessen-level hackery here by Jason Willick: did y’all know that the GOP went off the rails due to the pandemic and Ukraine? Everything was just fine before that! Also, it’s only because in both cases the experts didn’t tell ‘us’ when the crises would end(!)
I know we Americans have a well-earned reputation for having short memories, but seriously, get the fuck out of here, dude.
Got it, folks? It wasn’t trump screwing up our pandemic response (and his supporters’ need to absolve him of any blame whatsoever) that polarized the country…it wasn’t the right’s need to kneecap incoming President Biden and our national recovery by going hardcore anti-vax…it wasn’t trump’s buddy Vlad proving himself to be a brutal invader and international terrorist (or Ukraine heroically resisting, or the Biden Administration’s skillful handling of intelligence and uniting international support), and in both cases it certainly wasn’t the inability of the right to unite with the rest of the country to solve a crisis if it meant that trump was wrong…NOPE!
Also, it was the war in Ukraine that polarized us…no one else (and certainly no right-wing political party) had any agency. The war done did it.
It was the ‘failure of experts to explain when [each crisis] would end’.
That’s why right-wing populism is off the rails.
Thanks for enlightening us Mr. Willick! >(
RSA
@OzarkHillbilly: Here’s what a Texas community college has to say about the evolution of country music:
I’ve sometimes listened to amateur groups playing English or Scottish folk music, and I’ve been surprised that I could hear the roots of country music, I think.
Kay
@Jeffro:
I think a lot of people did go nuts because of the pandemic, black lives matter and me too (not Ukraine) and that’s not just limited to conservatives.
I think they were on the weaker end as people – brittle, really rigidly conventional people who have no capacity to adjust to changes gracefully or even sensibly. I don’t think we can rely on them in a pinch. They’re too squirrelly and too easily rattled.
It makes me ashamed of Americans when I look at the freak out over wearing a mask – the incessant whining- contrasted with how brave the the people of Ukraine are.
Conservatives better not start a civil war here- if they couldn’t handle not going to restaurants for a year they’re going to get their asses kicked in a civil war. Again.
hueyplong
@Miss Bianca: That is very much believable.
Layer8Problem
@Other MJS: Ahhh, Vulcans are always complaining about stuff, “That’s not logical,” “You’re not being logical,” blah, blah, blah. Not an ounce of whimsy in those guys.
And speaking of Vulcans and their friends, I just watched “Arena” from ST – The Original Series with one of the little grandkids, which he picked from the episode lineup since the associated picture had a “dinosaur” in it (annoying Gorn/overheated guy in a reptile suit amongst rock formations in sunny Los Angeles with Ted Cassidy’s voice). Somebody tarted the episode up with mildly “improved” special effects. Regardless, the viewing was a success, so onward to tribbles Real Soon Now.
Kay
@Jeffro:
They are going to have to learn to deal with some level of uncertainty. Because we have experts does not mean we get immediate explanations and bulletprooof predictions on every situation, especially unprecedented situations.
This is a childish demand- it is not other peoples jobs to assure these screeching ninnies that everything is going to be okay. It MIGHT NOT be okay. We don’t know. They don’t get guarantees. No one does. Part of being an adult is learning how to operate without perfect or complete information. I’m not their mom.
Kay
@Jeffro:
They never follow up on anything either. They freaked out about the school closures and scores did go down (although not due to the closures, it turns out) but scores are now rebounding. I knew they would.
These ridiculously catastrophic predictions that make are silly. They slippery slope everything to death and then complain that people are scaring them. I mean, I GUESS the government could have rounded us up into camps due to covid but that did not, in fact, happen so they can scratch that off their Santa Claus scroll list of “things we are afraid of”.
Another Scott
@Jeffro:
driftglass has similar memories…
Always worth a click.
Cheers,
Scott.
OzarkHillbilly
I wrote a research paper for a college class where I was able to trace an oft played folk song’s roots all the way back to iirc 16th or 17th century Scotland. With more time and desire I’m sure I could have gone back further. This was almost 30 years ago and I don’t recall which song it was.
Scout211
I clicked on a story on the front page of NBC News website because it was a story about Governor Newsom. I like to be current with news about my governor.
“Biden advisers bristle at Newsom’s plan to debate DeSantis”
Seriously, political journalism is garbage, example infinity.
The entire article, written by three authors including Jonathan Allen can be summed up entirely by one sentence in the article.
I read the article so you don’t have to. You’re welcome. But who I contact to get those minutes back in my life?
The Pale Scot
Wanna chime in, I don’t think K-pop springs from racist theft. Young people hear music without context and groove on it. Forty years after the US left Vietnam cassette tapes of Laos and Cambodian musicians that did their interpretations of the rock they were hearing from Arm Forces Radio in Vietnam were still being sold in those countries. Guys from the US heard it and formed the band Dengue Fever fronted by a Cambodian woman. The Youts hear music differently from us geezers
“Music is the Universal Language”
Jimmy Cliff
Dengue Fever – Full Performance (Live on KEXP)
UncleEbeneezer
@Professor Bigfoot: I don’t think K-pop erases Black Culture. It honors, pays tribute and builds on it, the way cross-cultural mixing is supposed to be. Just like Blaxploitation films (and now pretty much every action movie world wide) took the aesthetics, action and excitement martial of arts from early Asian cinema. Everybody knows K-Pop is deeply rooted in R&B, Rock and Hip-Hop. But artists have taken all of those and given the mix a decidedly Korean twist and I’m guessing most acknowledge the fact that they are building on the work of black musicians and that there’s an obvious through line from The Temptations to En Vogue to New Kids On The Block to K-Pop.
Jackie
@Ramalama: “Am reminded of The Colbert Report with Stephen Colbert playing a conservative…and numerous conservatives eating it up, not realizing it was satire.”
The WH Correspondence Dinner that Colbert MC’d during Bush2’s administration was one of the best – if not THE BEST ever. The looks on RW faces as they started realizing they’d been duped by a Lefty conman… PRICELESS!😂
OzarkHillbilly
He became the first Black mayor of a rural Alabama town. Then a white minority locked him out
I’m tellin’ you it’s all the fault of those nefarious purveyors of Critical Race Theory!
On the more serious side, it’s a fairly horrific tale.
OzarkHillbilly
God or the Devil I guess.
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro: I distinctly remember conservatives in both the US and UK almost immediately deciding that the right way to address COVID was to let the infection wave “wash over us” as quickly as possible, after which the survivors would have “herd immunity” and the crisis would be done. There was even a brief Twitter fad for the idea of intentionally injecting young healthy people with the virus so they could become a cadre of immune workers. This was all a year before the vaccines appeared and before there was even much official advocacy for masks.
Matt McIrvin
@Layer8Problem: I’m not a fan of those “remastered” versions of the original Star Trek effects, but I guess it makes the episodes slightly more accessible to the youngsters. “Arena” was an episode my daughter requested to see, too, because it’s so often referenced and parodied (there’s a whole sequence in the movie “Galaxy Quest” that is basically a sendup of it).
UncleEbeneezer
@The Pale Scot: I’m sure there are some K-Pop artists who are problematic, anti-black, don’t really respect where/who the music came from etc., and some who mimic AAVE a little too close for comfort etc., but that doesn’t seem to be what the scene is about, generally. I’m not aware of any artists or songs that have any overt anti-Blackness in their lyrics. Whereas American country seems to be pumping out racist tunes almost on a weekly basis because it very much IS a significant part of the current culture of Country music (#NotAllButDefinitelySome)
Glidwrith
@Frankensteinbeck: What really crosses the line for me is the lyric about politicians worrying about minors on an island and that they should be worried about miners instead. I’m willing to give the guy a bit of grace, that he’s on a learning curve, but damn I hope he learns quickly.
Anyway
@The Pale Scot:
Love Dengue Fever!
Tinare
@Ramalama: I remember being shocked when I learned that a friend of mine who loved the Colbert Report was not in on the joke when she was talking about how great he was as one of the few conservative comedians.
Anyway
@Matt McIrvin:
The thing with Covid was they couldn’t deal with any complexity, any uncertainty … it all had to be neatly wrapped with a bow and an end-date.
Juju
@Jeffg166: As a fair skinned, red haired person, I’m am also one who avoids the sun as much as possible. I’ve had a few sunburns in my time, but not since my late teens and the advent of sunscreen. Sunburns are not fun. I once had a student ask me why I was wearing white socks. I wasn’t wearing any socks. That was just my skin color. Also, it appears to me that the folk singer’s beard is red his hair looks more blonde or strawberry blonde to me.
UncleEbeneezer
@Anyway: I find the new album pretty Meh, but in general I love their work and especially Chhom Nimol’s amazing voice. Great driving/beach music.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@RSA:
They should have called it “Pro-grass”
[I’ll show myself out]
Paul Begala's Pink Tie
@Suzanne: Tim Miller interviewed Amanda Shires on The Next Level last month and it was good — she discussed Nashville politics, how much Jason Aldean sucks, etc. She and many other country/alt-country/country-adjacent musicians really seem to understand how a liberal message could speak to their audience and how a principled view of class & race is more important than making tons of money by pandering.
Kristine
@raven: Merchant’s voice is just gorgeous. I saw her a few years–actually more than 10 years ago–at Ravinia and she sounded much the same.
Layer8Problem
@Matt McIrvin: It’s a little jarring to find it not quite matching my recollection and wondering if I had somehow forgotten an animated Gorn eyeblink, or if Cestus III quite looked like that from orbit. And remastering from film does make mid-Sixties sets and makeup much more “detailed” on our whizzo modern teevees as opposed to good old-fashioned 525 horizontal lines tops. Paramount+ seems to have it in the unimproved original presentation, hopefully still in 4:3.
The Pale Scot
Oh yea…
Beat of My Heart – Karan Casey
‘The Queen of Argyll’ {live} ~ Silly Wizard
narya
@Kay:
I’d even go further: having experts means we do NOT get immediate explanations or bulletproof predictions, because experts want to see data before explaining or predicting. Good experts give us a cautious approach, a best-early-guess, which they then expect to update as they get more information. But these yahoos have the mindset that you describe: if you’re an expert you should be able to tell us The Right Answer, Right Away.
Juju
@catclub: There have been a lot of wallops to the outerbanks since 1954. Bertha, Fran, Floyd, Emily, Sandy, Isabel and some others I am probably missing. A few houses usually fall into the ocean, the shoreline is redesigned and parts of Highway 12 usually wash out. Sandy, Floyd and Isabel were particularly bad, but a lot of damage is avoided because new houses and businesses are built to withstand strong storms.
Glidwrith
@Anyway: “The thing with Covid was they couldn’t deal with any complexity, any uncertainty … it all had to be neatly wrapped with a bow and an end-date.”
And right there, ladies and gentlemen, is the right-wing authoritarian mindset and the core of the cult.
Eunicecycle
@Anyway: it’s a good thing our Founding Fathers never had to deal with uncertainty! Like I’m sure they knew exactly how the whole revolt against England was going to go. And Lincoln knew how the Civil War was going to end. And the ends of WW1 and 2 were well-known. Idiots. Right around WW1 there was also a pandemic.
Brachiator
@Miss Bianca:
There’s audio from one set where someone yells out “Judas!” and Dylan responds, “I don’t believe you,” before ripping into a powerful performance of Like a Rolling Stone.
The Pale Scot
@UncleEbeneezer:
Yea, there’s always going to be idjiots that take David Allen Coe as a role model
Matt McIrvin
@narya: I’ve been thinking a lot about the disconnect between how scientists and non-scientists, especially the sort of people who fall for conservative affinity scams, judge trustworthiness.
Scientists place a huge premium on characterizing uncertainty with detailed and complicated qualifications, and explaining the provenance of your knowledge: how do I know this, and how certain am I that I know this? And show your work. If you don’t say these things, scientists will not trust you as a fellow scientist.
But to many nonscientists, talking that way means you’re trying to deceive with tricky ten-dollar words and fine-print disclaimers, and making plain yes-or-no assertions of absolute truth is the sign of an honest person. It’s almost a pure inversion. It seems to particularly be the case on the religious right. “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” is comforting.
lowtechcyclist
@raven:
Just swell, all Jesusy and encouraging his son with an addiction problem to hit the booze. Suggest he include this verse in his devotions every now and then:
“As for the man who is a cause of stumbling to one of those little ones who has faith, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone round his neck.” – Mark 9:42, New English Bible
Matt McIrvin
@Layer8Problem: The TNG-era Star Trek shows have an added complication in that the live action on set was all shot on film, so an HD remaster of that is easy, but some of the effects were shot on standard-definition video and as time went on, more and more of them were computer-generated, again in standard definition. So there is no high-resolution film master and just to make the effects look like an HD version of the same thing, they need to be recreated.
That was apparently done for the whole run of Star Trek: TNG and it was expensive enough that Paramount never really recovered the cost. So it’s not likely there will ever be a full HD remaster of Deep Space Nine, Voyager or Enterprise
There was a similar problem with Robert Wise’s director’s cut of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The director’s cut was a video-only release and the new effects that were shot for it were on standard-def video, so an HD version of it was only recently made.
narya
@Matt McIrvin: Exactly. And I cannot for the life of me figure out how to address it. I know someone who believes the earth is 6000 years old and who builds airplanes for a major manufacturer (has an MA in engineering, is in the design/test part of building, has a security clearance, etc.). I don’t even know where to start.
lowtechcyclist
@Spanky:
Good old Booz Allen – the contractor that did such a good job compartmentalizing access to classified information when a guy named Snowden was employed there.
AFAICT, they’ve never gotten so much as a slap on the wrist on account of that.
Jeffro
It doesn’t make me ashamed of Americans. An easy 75-80% of us were just fine with wearing masks, distancing, and eventually with taking the vaccines.
It made me (and still makes me) mad that the remaining 20-25% were so blindly cueing off of what their idiotic “pandemic? what pandemic? experts? what experts? I’ve got a re-election to win here!” orange idol that they couldn’t be bothered to take the most basic safety precautions and instead, turned on the rest of us like rabid dogs. They couldn’t wear masks because that would mean their god-king was wrong and was handling the pandemic the exact. wrong. way.
Anyway, I do agree that they’re weak and whiny beyond belief.
patrick II
@Professor Bigfoot:
Or maybe it’s being honored. Or maybe most teens in streets of Seoul or in the Pervian mountains have never met a black person and just like the music because it is good music and fun to do for young people.
Jeffro
I remember hearing it too – always tied to the argument that the most important thing above all, casualties be damned, was to keep letting the good economic times roll.
Some of that was by people who worship money. Some was by people who can’t be bothered with the slightest inconvenience or expense even if it helps their fellow man/society as a whole. Some of it was people who were cueing off of trump’s ignorant bluster. Some of it was people who were heavily invested in trump’s re-election.
And while the Venn diagram of those four sets is not a completely single circle…it’s pretty close.
Sure Lurkalot
@Matt McIrvin:
Thing is, they continued to beat this drum after it was shown that people were getting reinfected and the vaccine didn’t provide total immunity. Because their let’s do nothing solution contributed to the proliferation of variants we still see today (not saying Covid wouldn’t have mutated with the most vigorous response, it likely would).
Another Scott
@narya: You could point him, e.g., here:
But don’t be surprised if he’s not interested. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
patrick II
@Sure Lurkalot:
In the early days before treatment improved and vaccines were available, COVID was spreading everywhere and the death rate was about 0.8%. Their plan, based upon knowldege at that time, would have resulted in close to 3 million deaths.
I caught COVID last year. I am 75 and overweight. Without the vaccine, I would have probably been one of those that did not make it. Not that those fuckers care.
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro: There seems to be this wider conservative/libertarian intuition that for many types of problems, they’ll work themselves out naturally and the right thing to do is nothing, or maybe to actually exacerbate the problem so that only the strong survive or so that some kind of organic natural corrective effect kicks in. I can see that this reasoning would actually apply in some circumstances, but they’ll insist it’s true of almost everything.
(Eugenics was an exception–but in the early 20th century eugenics wasn’t even necessarily a perserve of the right.)
Sure Lurkalot
@Scout211:
This seems to me the least bristled administration of my lifetime. The media gets their panties in a wad every time Biden ignores an ignorant gotcha question because how dare he not dignify what we’ve deigned as the scandal du jour?
Just continues to put his head down to reverse the trickle down regime we’ve suffered under for 4 decades.
Matt McIrvin
@patrick II: They seized on contrarian calculations purporting to show that the fatality rate was much lower than that. I remember a couple of doctors who got a lot of attention early on for claiming that it was really less than 0.1%, based on an unwarranted extrapolation from the self-selected people who came into their office with COVID infections, which caused them to greatly overestimate the infection rate in the initial wave.
I figured out pretty quickly these claims were wrong just because there were too many dead people in New York City. If the really low fatality-rate numbers were true, you wouldn’t have gotten that many dead even if 100% of the population of NYC had COVID.
marklar
@Matt McIrvin: I always enjoy your comments.
An additional factor that united those on the Right (just let nature do its course/ God has a plan, so let’s do nothing) and the “Marianne Williamson Left” is the naturalistic fallacy (i.e., if something is ‘natural’ it must be good). This also drove some of the suspicion of the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines, since they used new technology. If you want to read up on it (although from your comments, I get the sense that you know about this stuff), there is some terrific research by Paul Rozin (University of Pennsylvania) on this effect.
patrick II
@Matt McIrvin:
For some people, that might be called optimistic fatalism. Plagues are God’s will and people will die, but I will be spared because I am saved. Plus their grasp of mathematics isn’t that great. Not to mention science.
Or, most sadly among Republican leaders, rather than try to educate their fellow party members, they rode the wave in large part because bad times for the Biden administration were good for them. A few extra deaths a small price to pay for electoral victory.
lowtechcyclist
@Jeffro:
And of course, all those folks who identify as “pro-life” were dead set against any measures to limit the reach of the pandemic. They weren’t the least bit bothered by a million deaths here in America and 20 million worldwide.
Never again have to take seriously the notion that they’re actually pro-life.
AWOL
@Brachiator: That’s in London, 1966. And the words are incoherent. The usual Dylan mythos his fans liked to create long after he left his fans.
Anthony
Let’s hear from Pink Williams of Memphis:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CwRfZv-AfOK/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Sure Lurkalot
@lowtechcyclist:
Not that it took Covid alone to demonstrate. Their love of increasingly lethal weapons easily available to everyone. Their embrace of the death penalty and acceptance of more and more inhumane methods to perform it. Pro-life? They’re a fucking death cult.
lowtechcyclist
@Matt McIrvin:
Also, there were the excess deaths. Deaths are tabulated by county-level agencies all over the country, and just summed up nationally. The numbers are hard to fake. Anyone who said Covid wasn’t responsible for the sudden, massive increase in the death rate needed to go, like OJ, in search of the real killer.
raven
@Betty Cracker:
@lowtechcyclist: dang
Jeffro
For the non-religious ones, it’s just “I will be spared because…just because.” =)
Also, THIS
They’re just lazy, wishful thinkers.
lowtechcyclist
@Sure Lurkalot:
Well yeah, we knew that. But if you’d been arguing with one of them in 2019, there were enough weeds to get down into with each of those things that you’d be wasting your time. Now it’s “you didn’t give a damn about millions of quite preventable deaths, so fuck off.”
kalakal
@Brachiator:
Manchester, UK. Free Trade Hall
https://www.jambase.com/article/50-years-ago-heckler-calls-bob-dylan-judas
catclub
and never look at Trump as a wealthy elite in THAT case.
Hoppie
@M31: Make sure it rhymes with “low-down, hoochie-coochers”
Cacti
When the last spade of dirt is shoveled over the last Boomer who breaks into a rant about Vietnam any time they’re mildly inconvenienced about anything, maybe we as a nation can finally stop pretending that everyone who died in some dumbass war was a heroic freedom fighter and that we all owe them a great debt of blah blah bullshit bullshit.
Freemark
@Suzanne: North of Richmond might mean DC not Northern states.
wjca
@OzarkHillbilly:
Hey, lots of (most?) folk songs date from decades ago. So obviously people who love them must be conservatives with nostalgia for the past. Obviously. Why look at the actual words of the songs? Stick with “alternative facts” that support your assumptions.
Paul Begala's Pink Tie
@Cacti: It infuriates me so much that people like my dad, who spent his adult life as an educator training nurses, therapists, non-traditional students, everyone who came his way as a psych professor, are lumped in with entitled Boomer jerks. Like he’s absorbed into that generation, especially when the last spade of dirt comes down. Which will be soon because he is dying of COPD. He and my mom were lifelong straight-ticket D voters except when they voted for John Warner. Remember that guy?
A couple of years ago, my father showed me his draft card that he has carried in his wallet since 1970. Two of the three board physicians who examined him said he should be ineligible, but one hard-ass wanted him (on daily meds for hypercholesterolemia, in grad school, married, near the end of Vietnam) to be a draftee. I didn’t know any of this until he was 73.
strange visitor (from another planet)
this thread is probably dead but i wanted to chime in regardless, i mean, isn’t that the way of the jackalariot?
i’m a big fan of the TOS remasters. the original effects REALLY don’t hold up and the cg stuff has kept the design ethos of the original show, so for me it works.
it’s like watching first mobile suit: gundam from 1979. no matter how good the story is, and it’s pretty good, anime art has evolved so much since then and it visually doesn’t work. its art can’t compare with the sequel, zeta gundam from 1985, let alone the modern stuff like unicorn, iron blooded orphans, origin or witch from mercury.
IMO, the 1960’s modelwork and depictions of planetary bodies only works if you’re riding the nostalgia train.
K-Mo
@lowtechcyclist: My $.02: most people didn’t have well-considered positions- they had team loyalty and associated (deeply held) feelings
Matt McIrvin
@lowtechcyclist:
And the theories were doozies. Some claimed that they had all committed suicide because of lockdowns and masks. Then when the vaccines came along, they all supposedly had been killed by the vaccines, or by the supposed pandemic of “vaccine shedding”.
Matt McIrvin
@patrick II: I remember a discussion I had on Facebook where I calculated that, given fairly optimistic assumptions, a “let it roll and get to herd immunity ASAP” approach would produce at least 2 million deaths, and got challenged on this by a sealion-ish guy who just didn’t believe me. I walked him through all the math step by step, and the best I could get out of him was a mild “well, I think the fatality rate is lower than that; let’s agree to disagree”.
Matt McIrvin
@Paul Begala’s Pink Tie: I don’t mind being lumped in with the reactionary Reagan Youth creeps and Ayn Rand fanboys that are the majority of my generation. I understand how this works; it’s an understandable assumption. I probably could have done more to counter them.