Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

The new republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

“But what about the lurkers?”

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Fani Willis claps back at Trump chihuahua, Jim Jordan.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Donald Jessica Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

It’s a new day. Light all those Biden polls of young people on fire and throw away the ashes.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread

Tuesday Morning Open Thread

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Tuesday Morning Open Thread 12

(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)

Madam Vice-President, keeping busy last week:


(But also, she *is* a personal fav… )

Reader Interactions

243Comments

  1. 1.

    NeenerNeener

    The future’s so bright  Biden’s gotta wear shades….

     

    Not a bad ear worm to have today.

  2. 2.

    lowtechcyclist

    @NeenerNeener: ​
    You beat me to it!

    And good morning, by the way. We’re heading in to DC shortly, gonna visit the Museum of the American Indian, which I haven’t been to yet.  ETA: This was one of the things I said I’d do this winter now that I’m retired – visit some museums. So I’m finally starting to do that.

  5. 5.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:  Thanks! I figure we’re safe from the tourists through February at least, and I’m planning to take advantage.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    Also too, good on Angela Davis.

    ETA: You know who wouldn’t look that good under critical theory: a good portion of the online left.

  7. 7.

    Suzanne

    I’m sorry I am still confused by how Angela Davis became who she is NOW. I don’t get the move from critical theory and Marcuse to going wide-eyed for Kamala Harris

    This is a seriously idiotic take.

    I am increasingly convinced that the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing, and those who have not.

  12. 12.

    Kay

    Dearborn (MI) mayor refused to meet with Biden campaign team. He wants a policy meeting on Gaza, not a political meeting. They were incensed that Biden made a statement on the war last week and did not mention civilian casualties.

    Its concerning. I don’t think the situation with the Arab American vote in MI is improving – they’re 70 per cent Dem. He has to somehow limit losses – he’ll take a hit but he can’t take a big hit and survive.

  16. 16.

    rikyrah

    @Suzanne:

    There are a number of programs that help people that have their origins with the Black Panthers. Ms Davis can look at the MILLIONS who have been helped

    .and she can say with certainty that she was part of that

  18. 18.

    Betty

    Just speculating, but if Mike Johnson is dead set against both the immigration bill and Ukraine funding because of Trump, can’t a Democrat move for his removal as Speaker just to get this process moving? Even if it loses, it could remove the threat from MTG’s arsenal which seems to be holding things up.  There is Republican support for both bills in the House.

  19. 19.

    p.a.

    @Suzanne: I am increasingly convinced that the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing, and those who have not.

     

    Many of my Italian, Catholic, relatives consider multiculturalism knowing Irish Catholics.  😂🫤🤔

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Suzanne: I am increasingly convinced that the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing

    Hmmmm, I never thought of my life in those terms.

  23. 23.

    Suzanne

    @p.a.:

    Many of my Italian, Catholic, relatives consider multiculturalism knowing Irish Catholics.

    When my great-grandmother moved from her home into an assisted-living facility, apparently there was some concern that she might say something offensive to one of her new neighbors. SuzMom told me that she said, “Don’t worry, I get along very well with the Swedes.”

  25. 25.

    Anne Laurie

    @Kay: Its concerning. I don’t think the situation with the Arab American vote in MI is improving – they’re 70 per cent Dem. He has to somehow limit losses – he’ll take a hit but he can’t take a big hit and survive.

    I console myself by thinking of just how much the MAGAts will do to demonstrate their antipathy to brown immigrants with unChristian backgrounds between now and November.

    There will be holdouts — some people can’t let go of a grudge, as an Irish-American I know this in my bones — but given the choice between ‘Biden doesn’t publicly rage against Israel as much as we think would be reasonable’ and ‘Trump wants to expel all Muslims, including native-born non-Arab Muslims, the day of his inauguration’… I gotta assume *some* of voters in Dearborn will realize there’s an actual difference.

  28. 28.

    SFAW

    @Baud: ​
     

    Tourists are awful. And I frequently am one, so I know.

    Well, in fairness to you: being forced to wear pants — yes, I realize I’m making a big assumption here — in public must skyrocket your stress level, possibly leading to sub-optimal behavior.
    Of course, Pantsless Baud in public might lead to others’ stress increases*. So a lose-lose scenario, I guess.
    *I realize that there might be some subset of others who would relish encountering Pantsless Baud.

  30. 30.

    SFAW

    @p.a.: ​
     

    Many of my Italian, Catholic, relatives consider multiculturalism knowing Irish Catholics.

    In fairness, I think the Irish feel the same way about those not-quite-as-Catholic-as-the-Irish Italian Catholics.

  31. 31.

    Anne Laurie

    @p.a.: Many of my Italian, Catholic, relatives consider multiculturalism knowing Irish Catholics. 😂🫤🤔

    My childhood parish was very much like that… but ‘everybody’ shared contempt for the  (small minority of) Polish Catholics.

    (And that included the parish priests, not least the refugee-from-Spanish-communism priest who never bothered to learn much English.  But he knew to dismiss his Polish congregants as dumb and dirty!)

  33. 33.

    dmsilev

    @Suzanne: From that Tweet (or ‘x’ or whatever the fuck Musk is calling them. Tweets.):

    I’m sorry I am still confused by how Angela Davis became who she is NOW. I don’t get the move from critical theory and Marcuse to going wide-eyed for Kamala Harris

    Performative very-online leftists (note that she uses the handle “ventureCommunist”) are always “very confused” about things that normal people find very easy to understand. Makes them very similar to the very-online far right. In several ways.

  35. 35.

    Geminid

    @Betty: Regarding Ukraine aid, I wonder if Democrats have a bill ready to advance through a Petition to Discharge. Rep. Gallego talked about this a year ago, in an interview with Military Times. Gallego and other Ukraine hawks could see this problem coming.

    Last May, Democrats put up a petition to discarge a debt ceiling bill, and they had just started gathering signatures when Squeaker McCarthy folded and agreed on acceptable Debt Ceiling legislation.

  38. 38.

    raven

    @Suzanne: Every Sunday I go sit with a buddy who has “smoldering multiple-myeloma”. We been friends for years, been to the Wall a couple of time and I’ve actually saved his life when he went in a river when he was drunk and I pulled his ass out (from the bank, I told him I wasn’t going in the water because he would have drowned both of us).  He’s a stone Fox News junkie and he tries to limit his right wing bullshit but it seeps through now and then. I hang with him but it’s not easy.

  40. 40.

    zhena gogolia

    NYT front-page headline: “Biden Gambles on Trump Fear and Star Clout.”

    Not his record of accomplishments?

    Fuck them.

  41. 41.

    Suzanne

    @eclare: The family was not concerned that she (of German descent) would say something racist about Scandinavians. They were concerned that she would say something racist about Black and Native people. None of them were reassured by her statement!

  42. 42.

    Marmot

    I’m sorry I am still confused by how Angela Davis became who she is NOW. I don’t get the move from critical theory and Marcuse to going wide-eyed for Kamala Harris

    I don’t know enough about Angela Davis to understand this. Is “fuck fascism” not enough?

  44. 44.

    Another Scott

    @Kay:

    DetroitNews.com has more.

    Some people are saying they won’t talk to Biden until he demands a ceasefire. Some are saying that Biden hasn’t tried to talk to them. Some are saying they want Biden to talk to them, not his campaign staff.

    Tough needle to thread there.

    Politics is slow. We know that Biden is working on the problem from every angle he can.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  45. 45.

    Caveatimperator

    @Marmot:

    Angela Davis was involved in the Communist Party USA for many, many years. The Twitter poster who is incredulous that she is pro-Kamala views this endorsement as going soft or going mainstream.

  49. 49.

    catclub

    @eclare: Both the dog and cat are at Def Con one.

     

    I can never distinguish whether Defcon5 or Defcon1 is the most critical.

     

    I would say your case sounds more like deafcon.

  53. 53.

    sab

    @Anne Laurie:  My husband just learned that one of his very Irish American klatchmates had a mother born in Poland who came here age three and didn’t learn English until third grade. Her kid always presented himself as entirely Irish, even president for years of a Hiberian Society chapter. Finally at age 72 he admits the truth of his Polish mother.

  56. 56.

    catclub

    @Anne Laurie: But he knew to dismiss his Polish congregants as dumb and dirty

     

    I think if you travel to Poland you will find they are very easy to look at.

  57. 57.

    gene108

    @Anne Laurie:

    but given the choice between ‘Biden doesn’t publicly rage against Israel as much as we think would be reasonable’ and ‘Trump wants to expel all Muslims, including native-born non-Arab Muslims, the day of his inauguration’… I gotta assume *some* of voters in Dearborn will realize there’s an actual difference.

    I’m going with just not voting as the option. If you think you’re ignored, tuning out is a common response.

    Democrats are in a really bad position regarding the Isareal-Gaza war trying to placate parts of their base that support opposing sides.

  59. 59.

    Suzanne

    @dmsilev:

    Performative very-online leftists (note that she uses the handle “ventureCommunist”) are always “very confused” about things that normal people find very easy to understand. Makes them very similar to the very-online far right. In several ways. 

    Yes. Both of them are similar in that they’ve essentially sequestered themselves amongst one another. Their politics are really secondary or tertiary to this fact. They were the douchebags in school who you didn’t want to work with in the group project because they only wanted to do the shit they wanted to do and they evinced zero flexibility or concern for strengths and weaknesses of others.

    Normal people, who have jobs or volunteer or have any experience with any sort of group project, who understand that challenges present themselves when a good idea requires implementation, are better at politics.

  63. 63.

    BC in Illinois

    @Suzanne:

    I am increasingly convinced that the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing, and those who have not.

    That has been one of my explanations to people of why I prefer/support/love Joe Biden and not Donald Trump. Trump has NEVER in his life been on a committee. He has never, in his job, gone to a staff/department meeting which is chaired by someone other than himself (or his father). He has never participated in a discussion that included a wide diversity of people. He has never listened to advice or learned from advisors.

    Joe Biden has done all of these things.

  64. 64.

    Suzanne

    @eclare:

    Stupid question here, people are racist against Scandinavians? 

    I’m sure there were dumb prejudices between all the varying nationalities…. but no, I don’t think there was any significant racism faced by Scandinavians. It was just hilarious that she thought that was diversity. She had lived in Seattle (among mostly other people of German descent) most of her life, with a couple of years living in Minnesota, and that apparently was as far as she ventured into the world.

    Once she moved into the assisted-living home, she would apparently get exercise by walking around Green Lake, which was next to the facility. She would walk 3/4 of the way around, and then turn around and walk back. SuzMom asked her why she didn’t just walk all the way around. She said, “Oh, honey, I can’t walk that far.” LMAO.

    Lived to be 98.

  65. 65.

    OGLiberal

    Y’all realize that Trump will probably win in November not because Dems suck but because many of the people you know and love are facists.  That’s reality.  This world sucks.  My wife keeps telling me we need to leave but I watch elections outside of here and seems whites gone wild is a global thing. Fuck this planet.  And fuck, “well, you just have to fight.”  My kids don’t have that time and I don’t have the time or energy to convince folks not to be assholes.  I have way too much to worry about outside of all this political insanity.  I give up.  Just fuck me up the ass and let me know what I have to do so my kids aren’t entirely fucked.  Fucking MAGA assholes are ruining this planet and I can’t do anything about it because people are, basically, evil.

    My children are in a shit spot because white people suck.  Please don’t tell me to send postcards.  This shit is probably unfixable in mine and their generation and that breaks my heart.

    And I don’t need help.  I do, we all do, but it ain’t coming from mental health professionals.  I need help from people – and too many of them suck.

    Here endeth the rant….

  66. 66.

    Kay

    I’m following the MI school shooter case where the parents were charged (involuntary manslaughter)

    I think it will May start a trend where parents are held responsible for a lack of care with weapons /kids. Expect more of these.

    A good thing, I think. Adult gun owners are irresponsible

  72. 72.

    BethanyAnne

    “The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles announced in a letter that drivers license gender changes are no longer available, and trans people could be charged with fraud.” per Erin In The Morning’s newsletter.

  75. 75.

    OGLiberal

    @Caveatimperator: Yeah, whatever.  I thought that way in November 2016 and we barely got by in November 2020.  I’m speaking for my kids, who can’t even vote.  This country is fucked and that we even have to worry about a second Trump presidency is fucked up and it’s because half the people you know are fucked up.  Speak for yourself.

  76. 76.

    Marmot

    @Suzanne:

    I am increasingly convinced that the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing, and those who have not.

    Spoke to my normie New Yorker friend yesterday, and he displayed elements of this. He’ll vote Dem, but he’s stuck on the narrative that “the Democrats” need to find somebody more exciting than Biden.

    I tried to explain our varied constituencies, and that what he finds exciting as a middle-aged White New Yorker is not gonna generate universal appeal. (He half-seriously suggested Howard Stern and Jon Stewart!)

    Part of his tunnel vision results from his never having volunteered, never having donated, never having been involved in politics directly. He built a small business and worked at the lowest level of his industry, but that industry — art galleries — is upper crust, predominately White, and shockingly disconnected, myopic, and superficial.

    His heart’s in the right place, and he’ll do the right thing at the booth. But for the moment, I’m just trying to get him to ante up, make a personal effort, however small. He needs to glimpse our coalition.

    Edit: Capitalization.

  81. 81.

    OGLiberal

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, whatever….you people are insufferable.  You’re like MAGA assholes…expected some level of sympathy here but you are just like them, just from the other side. Live with that.  And live with what I said because that’s reality.

  83. 83.

    artem1s

    We’re fighting for her because a future where our leaders represent the rest of us is important. Having a Black woman as our President matters.

    I’d argue that she eminently more qualified than anyone else who is currently challenging Joe Biden. Those who oppose her assume ‘everyone’ naturally prefers a White daddy figure over any woman and especially a woman of color and that he is by default more qualified because he’s White and male – there are plenty of Dems who fall into the ‘wouldn’t generic White Guy I saw on TV be a great president in 2028’. And I’d caution using the representation argument as it will inevitably bring up the ‘quota’ card. The Affirmative Action bullshit is bound to come up no matter what. But I don’t consider myself as ‘the rest of us’. To me she doesn’t represent the ‘rest of us’. She represents America – the way it actually looks – and Dems are ecstatic about that. But primarily I think we believe she’ll be the best choice for the job given the competition we’ve seen so far – and that includes Ryan, Gavin, Schiff or Mayor Pete.

  84. 84.

    OGLiberal

    @OGLiberal: OK, I can get why one of my comments implied that.  Yes, everybody here cares.  Too many do not.  Thanks for calling that out.

  85. 85.

    OGLiberal

    And people have problem with my “first sentence”, which was this:

    “Y’all realize that Trump will probably win in November not because Dems suck but because many of the people you know and love are facists.”

    Unless I live in bizarro world in Central NJ, how is this not true?  Almost every white person here is a MAGA lunatic.  Have to believe it’s even worse in non-blue states.

  86. 86.

    OGLiberal

    @Marmot: I would hope so and nothing I say here will demoralize anybody here.  But I don’t trust white people and that’s who I have to trust.  Full disclosure – I’m as white as you can get, just don’t trust us.

  87. 87.

    Brachiator

    @OGLiberal:

    And people have problem with my “first sentence”, which was this

    I don’t have a problem with it, even though you pointlessly keep repeating it. At some point, speculation becomes fear mongering.

    But your speculation is not prophecy. I don’t care what you fear as long as you vote for Biden.

    Aside from that, it don’t matter.

  88. 88.

    eclare

    @Suzanne:

    Ahhh…the nuance helps, I was taking it way too literally.  I must be due for an irony/snark adjustment.

    Or I need moar caffeine.

  89. 89.

    Suzanne

    @Marmot:

    I tried to explain our varied constituencies, and that what he finds exciting as a middle-aged White New Yorker is not gonna generate universal appeal. (He half-seriously suggested Howard Stern and Jon Stewart!) 

    Oh for fuck’s sake.
    I don’t know why people think that the hardest job in the fucking world does not require expertise.

  91. 91.

    Marmot

    @OGLiberal: Then friend, you need to get out more. Do some volunteering — in person. You’ll meet good people who’re trying to make a better world. Many of them White, but certainly not all of them.

    Fortunately for us all, you don’t know the future. And your comments are demoralizing. You seem to want commiseration, empathy’s miserable cousin.

    You’re not going to get it.

  94. 94.

    eclare

    @Suzanne:

    One of many reasons I am so glad Joe is at the helm with multiple foreign crises.  He picks up the phone and knows what he is talking about and likely has decades of experience with them.

  96. 96.

    Marmot

    @Suzanne:

    Oh for fuck’s sake.
    I don’t know why people think that the hardest job in the fucking world does not require expertise.

    Ha! Ain’t it the truth? Reminds me of when some slice of the left was all, “Hey now, Oprah would be great!”

    And that’s a good angle you’ve got there. I forgot to pound the Biden record, which expertise won, not mythical star power.

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @OGLiberal: I wasn’t going to reply to you but seeing as you directed a comment to me, I shall.

    I have 2 sons who have blessed me with 5 granddaughters. I am here for the duration, whatever happens I will continue to fight for their future, not mine, theirs. Raising my sons was not easy, I had to fight every damned day for them and I still do. Giving up is not an option for me.

    You may want to throw up your hands and say, “All is lost.” I understand the impulse, I do, but I fight just as I always have because my sons and their families deserve nothing less.

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    @Marmot:

    Spoke to my normie New Yorker friend yesterday, and he displayed elements of this. He’ll vote Dem, but he’s stuck on the narrative that “the Democrats” need to find somebody more exciting than Biden.

    Biden has probably been the best president of my lifetime in terms of competence and ability to get things done given an obstructionist Congress. He seems to have a vision of what he wants.

    I think he has assembled a great team with his cabinet and advisors. His court appointments have been stellar.

    His steps in the recovery from the pandemic were what we needed.

    I don’t watch TV shows like the Voice or America’s Got Talent. Elections are not a game show.

    I can understand electing a president who is inspiring. And Biden is that for me.

    I don’t understand the “exciting” thing at all.

    Maybe your friend can be convinced to rethink things. It’s early.

  99. 99.

    R-Jud

    @OGLiberal: Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the “OG” in your nym stand for “Ocean Grove”? The Jersey Shore town that’s essentially owned by a church? I was there this summer, and while it’s chock-full of fascists it’s hardly representative of Central Jersey as a whole. I think your outlook is distorted by the weird hyper-local area you find yourself in, and you may want to get out of OG, as nice as the ice cream at Day’s is.

  100. 100.

    OGLiberal

    @Marmot: In person?  My kid is immunocompromised and my biggest issue is that everybody wants us to go back to normal.  I’m not doing shit in person unless I have to.  My kid has no hair because of this fucking virus.  Think about being 17 and having to deal with that, along with Crohns and RA.

  102. 102.

    Kristine

    @Suzanne:

    I am increasingly convinced that the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing, and those who have not.

    Agree. No apparent will or ability to negotiate. Or experience in dealing with the fact that half the room wants them to fail and is actively working towards that outcome..

  104. 104.

    Jeffro

    @Suzanne: Oh for fuck’s sake.
    I don’t know why people think that the hardest job in the fucking world does not require expertise.

    Part of it is, the only job requirements are US citizenship, residency, and age.

    And because of that, everyone and their uncle can run for president to get attention, grift, spout off, whatever.

    If we had some real requirements (not just for the presidency, but for Congress and federal judgeships too), we just might weed out a few bad apples and cut off the grift train for a few others.  It’s not a silver bullet, but it would be a good start.

  105. 105.

    Marmot

    @OGLiberal: I don’t wish your challenges — or your kid’s — on anyone. Sincerely, I hope you are able to do the best possible job of it. I do.

    I’m not doing shit in person unless I have to.

    Please consider whether this influences your view of people and events. Some of us are extremely sensitive to isolation.

  110. 110.

    Suzanne

    @Baud:

    Because a black guy with not that much experience did it pretty well. 

    Obama was a Senator, a state Senator, and an attorney. That’s a lot of relevant experience.

  111. 111.

    OGLiberal

    R-Jud: First off, that’s some high-level doxxing and quite impressive.  Second, almost nobody who lives in this town is connected to the Camp Metting Assiciation…in fact, most hate them.  Third, Republicans don’t even run for office in Neptune, NJ.  Finally, we are in a county that is hopelessly Republican.  We actually got redistrictef into Chris Smith’s district for 6 or so years and only recently got put back into Pallone’s district.  This area of NJ is mostly MAGA.  Even Neptune.  Just not enough white, straight folks to win.

    Day’s has great ice cream but the sister Starving Artist restaurant is even better.  Brunch?

  112. 112.

    Baud

    @Suzanne:

    He wasn’t a Senator for very long, and had no executive experience. He wasn’t woefully inexperienced like Trump.

    I think Obama was great, but his resume was probably thinner than average.

  113. 113.

    Gwangung

    Half of the Republican politicians are convinced that Trump is gonna face plant in November and take the party with him. In the primaries, he could barely muster enough enthusiasm to win just over half the votes. And he’s a shoe-in in November?

    GEDDOUDDA HERE.

    He shows weakness, plenty of weakness. If you don’t hammer that weakness, you WILL lose and it’s your own damn fault.

  115. 115.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Suzanne: … the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing, and those who have not.

    Once again I marvel at how lucky my life has been. I have a mentor who early in my career gave me this hint: “you don’t have to like the people you work with.” It has stuck with me to this day.

    I will say, though, that it can help. Bemused Senior and I worked together on several projects and it is among my happiest memories.

  116. 116.

    OGLiberal

    @Marmot: I’m isolated – not really, I have a job…I’m interacting with people all the time, as are my kids via school classes – because my kid is immunocompromised and people don’t care.  It’s not a choice I want.  Wear a mask and get vaccinated.  Almost nobody does either these days.

  117. 117.

    Brit in Chicago

    @Suzanne: “Obama was a Senator, a state Senator, and an attorney. That’s a lot of relevant experience.”

    Also a community organizer. Remember Sarah Palin asking “What does a community organizer do, anyway?” I thought at the time: organizes, which is only half a step away from: gets out the vote.

  118. 118.

    OzarkHillbilly

    ‘Let’s find out’: shipwreck mysteriously appears on Newfoundland coast

    A coastal community in Newfoundland has been left baffled and excited by the sudden and unexplained appearance of a centuries-old shipwreck on the sands of a nearby shore.

    Gordon Blackmore, a local resident, was hunting seabirds on the sandy shores of Cape Ray when he spotted a dark shadow under the turbid waters. It had not been there when he visited the spot just a few days earlier. He rushed back into the family home, shouting about the discovery, his mother told the Canadian Press. She grabbed her jacket and hurried to the beach to see it for herself. “It’s amazing, there is no other word for it.”
    ………………………………….
    The community’s Facebook page has transformed into a forum for speculation and research into the wreck’s possible origins, with local residents trawling through old records and family knowledge of fatal voyages.

    But it also serves as a stark reminder, one all too familiar to Newfoundlanders, of the tenuous relationship communities have with the the ocean.

    “It is a part of our history that has just been awakened. Some descendants will still want to know the names and the places where their ancestors were lost in the icy waters off our shores. It would be good for all of us if we could offer some history we know and a place for remembrance. At least a marker,” wrote Elizabeth Gover, a resident. “This is our history. Let’s find out.”

  119. 119.

    Suzanne

    @Jeffro: I think we, as an American culture, really want to believe that doing difficult things requires primarily clarity of vision. That’s essentially an appeal to values. And anybody can have “good values”. It’s egalitarian.

    But of course, it doesn’t. It requires a lot of expertise and education, built over a lifetime. And that necessarily excludes a lot of people. That…. to be honest, sucks.

  121. 121.

    Marmot

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t watch TV shows like the Voice or America’s Got Talent. Elections are not a game show.

    I can understand electing a president who is inspiring. And Biden is that for me.

    I don’t understand the “exciting” thing at all.

    Maybe your friend can be convinced to rethink things. It’s early.

    I agree with all of this. And in particular, my friend and a swathe of our country do seem to view it like sports or entertainment, but some type that they’re not that familiar with. More and more, I feel like a personal stake, however small, will help ’em grasp the participation part of democracy.

    He’ll vote Biden. My friend and his kind have expectations that campaign season will completely rewrite. I think that’s an advantage.

  122. 122.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: New York Mag had a longish piece on the Crumbley case recently. (I’ll see if I can find the link; may be paywalled.) Lots of legal experts in the article say conviction will be a heavy lift, but the parents’ behavior was so egregious that if anyone can be found negligent, maybe it’s them.

    I’m also encouraged by the trend, and it does seem to be a micro trend at least since there are a handful of other cases. Unsurprisingly, prosecutors and juries seem more inclined to indict black parents whose kids get ahold of an unsecured gun, as in the case where the 6-year-old shot his teacher in VA a while back. The same rules should apply to all, of course.

    ETA: Here’s a link to the NYM article.

  125. 125.

    Ken

    @OzarkHillbilly: Well we know how that story ends, don’t we?  I strongly suggest that any descendants of the 19th-century residents of that town move well inland. Western Colorado might be safe.

  126. 126.

    Suzanne

    @Baud:

    I think Obama was great, but his resume was probably thinner than average. 

    Sure. But it was within a ballpark. A reasonable range.

    Some of the people’s names who get thrown out (with apparent seriousness) are, like, totally random.

  127. 127.

    lee

    There is a social media post from some crazy person about how if the Chiefs win it will be the end of the US.

    After reading that I remembered someone claiming ‘peak wingnut’ a few years back.

    How did that turn out?

  129. 129.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Geminid: Regarding Ukraine aid, I wonder if Democrats have a bill ready to advance through a Petition to Discharge.

    I attended a fundraiser for Adam Schiff on Sunday and this question came up. An audience member asked whether a discharge petition was still possible and if so why can’t the Democrats get just a few votes from the GOP. Schiff’s answer was that yes, it’s still the rule and there are petitions queued up but the GOP are cowards.

  130. 130.

    rikyrah

    @BethanyAnne:

    “The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles announced in a letter that drivers license gender changes are no longer available, and trans people could be charged with fraud.” per Erin In The Morning’s newsletter.

     

    Just phucking evil

  132. 132.

    prostratedragon

    @Brachiator:
    Biden is inspiring, to me, because of what he envisions and can carry out. We actually get to see some of these great things. For “exciting” or “entertaining” to be more than a possibly noisome byproduct of something, I’d have to be in the position of a pure spectator, completely uninvolved in what is happening.

  133. 133.

    Bupalos

    @OGLiberal: Fucking MAGA assholes are ruining this planet and I can’t do anything about it because people are, basically, evil.

    So what have you tried. I mean apart from blaming others for things you probably (if unwittingly or reluctantly) participated in yourself?

    It’s hard to live the usual American life without doing a lot of damage to the planet, but it is possible. There are things you can do. You aren’t powerless, and people aren’t evil, they’re good. Prone to error. With a streak of destructiveness in reaction to frustration. But generally good.

  136. 136.

    Jeffro

    @Suzanne: In a nation of 330M people, I’m good with excluding the inexperienced from running our country.  =)

    Let them work their way up through local and state offices.  I hate to use business metaphors for government, but in this case it’s just true: no one should get to walk in off the street and go straight to the CEO suite.

  138. 138.

    R-Jud

    @OGLiberal: I didn’t dox, I just remember it because I have family around there and it stuck in my mind when you mentioned it once.

    I don’t have an immunocompromised kid but I do have one with disabilities. It’s hard out here. Peace to you.

  139. 139.

    OGLiberal

    @OGLiberal: There was a moment, late afternoon, in Fall 2016 that I will never forget.  Our country did that and they will do it again because white and stupid people.  Hope to be proven wrong.

  140. 140.

    eclare

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:

    I believe that there is one thing that you can connect with with every person.  A coworker at my old job was very difficult to deal with, kind of a “Sheldon” from The Big Bang Theory. I later found out she was a math major, that explained a lot, including our argument about how you could not put infinity as a number on a state tax return.  Yes.  Really.

    But I also found out that she liked to read, as do I, so after that I started most of our conversations with “what are you reading today?”  and “what have you heard about this book?”  It sounds small, but it goes a long way to make someone human.

  142. 142.

    Geminid

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: I think a petition to discarge can attract enough Republican Ukraine hawks like Max Miller (OH). Foreign Relations Chair Michael McCaul might not sign because he’s part of leadership, but he’ll probably encourage others if this is the only way to get aid to Ukraine. It won’t take many.

    I don’t think these Republicans risk much blowback either. Mike Johnson won’t do anything to them. He might even be relieved.

  143. 143.

    Marmot

    @prostratedragon:

    For “exciting” or “entertaining” to be more than a possibly noisome byproduct of something, I’d have to be in the position of a pure spectator, completely uninvolved in what is happening.

    Yes, exactly. And further, wishing for a politician to be more “exciting” involves imagining what other people will perceive. And with our coalition, well-intentioned but naive allies are terrible at that.

  144. 144.

    OGLiberal

    @R-Jud: Sorry, I did mention it…just didn’t think anybody would remember.  This town is so not Christiany, the CMA just has undue influence with the very liberal town government – $$$ doesn’t have a party line.

  147. 147.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Thanks so much for the link. We’ve been talking about the case in juice court. In my experience the teachers who have or will testify for the state will be the whole ball game. People tend to find teachers credible on issues with parents and juveniles. They have a kind of granular knowledge of families that no other outsider has.
    Prosecuting parents for serving booze to underage  has been a big success as a deterrent – I think this has the potential to be effective in that same way.
    you want to be a reckless gun nut? Fine, but you’re going to be accountable when other people get hurt. It’s the only thing that will hit these folks hard enough to get their attention.

  148. 148.

    BethanyAnne

    Oh, no. The Japanese moon lander touched down … upside down. They had sent a probe to the surface first, and it took a photo.

  150. 150.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: My father said this was the biggest value of working in your chosen field for a few years before going back to get a graduate degree – you had a better idea what things you learned were actually of value, and which weren’t. He was a teacher, and said some of the theories you’d learn about teaching in graduate school weren’t actually that valid or useful, and it was easier to tell that if you’d actually taught in a classroom.

  154. 154.

    prostratedragon

    @BethanyAnne:  Those are caster wheels in the air, aren’t they😖? At least they got it where they wanted. Maybe we should all, you know, collaborate more. Reduce our space junk!

  155. 155.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @zhena gogolia: I don’t know about that but I am a father and a grandfather and I can’t do otherwise. I remember sitting on the tailgate of my truck when my divorce was at it’s ugliest.

    I thought, “I don’t have to put up with this bullshit. I still have friends In WY, they can help put me up until I can find a job and a place. I can go.”

    Except I couldn’t, my sons needed me. Leaving them behind was not possible. Not for me.

  158. 158.

    Suzanne

    @Jeffro: I agree with you, but I also see that that excludes a lot of people. It means that there will be a de facto concentration of political power among those who come from family wealth or are at least upper-middle-class. The need for experienced leadership is more important…. but I also see that this is fairly alienating.

    Michael Sandel’s book “The Tyranny of Merit” was good on this issue.

  160. 160.

    Kelly

    @Suzanne: I am increasingly convinced that the biggest chasm in our society is between those who have ever had to build something (a table, a bake sale booth, a church committee, a meal, a company) with other people not of their choosing, and those who have not.

    But of course, it doesn’t. It requires a lot of expertise and education, built over a lifetime. And that necessarily excludes a lot of people

    These two comments succinctly sum up my objection to term limits. Politics requires skill. Building skills requires practice. Politics is teamwork. Good teams practice together. Practice takes time.

  162. 162.

    jonas

    @Kay: What the hell do these people think is going to happen to Palestine if Trump wins? I understand their frustration that Biden hasn’t done more to pressure Israel, but it’s not as though they have a choice between Biden and some super-lefty, pro-Palestinian candidate who will magically forge a peace deal and give everyone in the Middle East their very own pony. It’s between Biden and Trump, who, frankly would probably encourage Israel just to get it over with and nuke all of Gaza. Is that really what they want?

  164. 164.

    Jeffro

    Btw folks Jennifer Rubin has a good piece up about how Republicans better get a “Plan B” for when trumpov is (almost certainly) convicted of felonies.

    I don’t think she’s genuinely concerned for the party (at least not while trumpov is in the mix).  It reads like an attempt to get the rest of the snooze media talking about how things will likely play out.

  167. 167.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @OGLiberal: Unless I live in bizarro world in Central NJ, how is this not true? Almost every white person here is a MAGA lunatic. Have to believe it’s even worse in non-blue states.

    Just gonna throw this out there, perhaps MAGA lunatics are loud, obnoxious, and demand to be seen. More so in blue states. And, I don’t spend a lot of time there so just a hunch, possibly still more so in Jersey.

    No, they are not.  People are inherently bad…the good ones are the exception.  People here are good, most are not.

    Most Republicans aren’t even that bad, just myopic; a more insidious problem, but the intent just isn’t there.  Loud MAGAs, again, just shout and puff themselves up to make themselves seem intimidating and more numerous. Probably something to do with our early primate ancestors.

  168. 168.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Yep. I guess it shouldn’t surprise me how recklessly gun nut parents are allowed to behave, but it still does sometimes.

    There was an incident in my county several years ago when some teens went into a wooded area in the development where one of them lived and fired that kid’s father’s unsecured AR-15s in random directions. They shot and killed a woman a couple of blocks away who was taking out the trash. It was an accident — they couldn’t see her. The kids were tried, but since the bullet was never found, they weren’t convicted, even though witnesses said the kids were firing at the time the woman was killed.

    There was a lot of anger at the kids in this community, but few seemed to blame the idiot father who left unsecured battlefield weapons lying around the house.

  171. 171.

    Elizabelle

    @jonas:  FWIW, I think we should start saying a choice between Biden and Republicans.

    Trump is appalling, but so is his party, and don’t let people think his possible absence from the scene come November will be a panacea.

    It’s the authoritarian GOP.  Who won’t negotiate honestly on the border.  Who have stood with Netanyahu.  Who are comprised of more than a few whackjob evangelist Christians.  Who won’t admit the last Civil War was about slavery (which is what “states rights” was needed to try to preserve).

    Don’t make this all about Trump.  It’s so obvious too many people and journalists want to think the problem began with him.  It did not.  He is a symptom and a grifter, not the disease itself.

    Trump could get replaced on the ballot.  Start hitting “Republicans.”

  174. 174.

    Alison Rose

    Imagine there is a cafe you love that has a great menu full of your favorite foods. One day you go in and you see the special is a grilled cheese sandwich, which you love, but it’s rye bread and Swiss cheese, both of which you hate and you question the manager’s sanity for choosing such a combination. In fact, you’re so repelled that you decide you won’t give them your money out of spite.

    So instead you go out back to the dumpster which is also home to a family of raccoons, has four inches of standing rain water, and a drunk person took a piss in it just as you were walking up, and you scrape yesterday’s special off the bottom of it and eat that instead.

    That is what someone saying “I don’t like how Biden is handling Israel/Gaza so I’m gonna help Trump get reelected instead” sounds like.

  175. 175.

    Soprano2

    @sab: That’s funny, because my husband’s mother was Irish and he doesn’t like to talk about that. He represents himself as having pretty much only Polish ancestry. His Ancestry DNA test even pinpointed a part of Poland where his ancestors are from, so he is a lot Polish, but he’s got Irish too.

  177. 177.

    Eduardo

    @OGLiberal: I am sorry, man.  Have to give you a huge discount.

    For whatever the fuck is worth: a) I think it is most likely than not that Biden is going to win.  b) people are not evil, and white people are not more evil than anybody else.  c) people can be lead to do evil things and yes, there’s a chance things go to the shitter in Nov.

  179. 179.

    OGLiberal

     

    @Another Scott: And would love nothing more.  I do not trust the voters of this country.  Sorry, 2016 and the fact that 2020 was so close – and there is no way it should have been – leaves me really not confident in the wisdom of voters in this country.  But, if that’s what they want, guess I have to live with.

  180. 180.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Alison Rose: … One day you go in and you see the special is a grilled cheese sandwich, which you love, but it’s rye bread and Swiss cheese, both of which you hate …

    Mmmm. Grilled swiss on rye. Yum.

    [ETA hold the tire rims and anthrax.]

  182. 182.

    VFX Lurker

    Love, love, love the pie filter. Someone up thread said they gave up, they would not take any action, and there was nothing anyone here could say that would change their mind.

    I believe them. I pied them. Now I don’t have to read anything else they say on this site.

    I will use the time saved to write more postcards to voters.

  183. 183.

    rikyrah

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I am not going anywhere. I have no children. I do have my Peanut, who I adore.

    But, the main reason why I’m not going anywhere is..

     

    If fascism comes to White people in America..

    the delusion is…thinking that you would be safe anywhere else in the world.

  186. 186.

    Another Scott

    @Suzanne: We were watching Bettany Hughes talk about Sparta on the TV machine last night (don’t recall if it’s a new series or not).  It inspired me to look at Bret Deveraux’s This Isn’t Sparta blogs again.  He makes a really good point (that is relevant here):

    To put it bluntly, these guys [the sources] are all snobs. Thucydides and Xenophon were both aristocratic Athenians (they got to be generals, rather than common soldiers), frustrated that democracy – in their view – let the fickle, uneducated and poor ‘masses’ make decisions that ought to have been left to their ‘betters.’ In some respects in both the Nicomachean Ethics and his Politics, Aristotle codifies this in his understanding of the nature of virtue – this is most visible in his discussion at the end of the first book of the politics on the (lesser) virtue available to women, children and slaves. For these authors, Sparta is a mirror to hold up to the politics of Athens – speaking well of Sparta is a way of criticizing what they dislike about Athens (which is the democracy).

    [ Pictured: The School of Athens, by Raphael. Actually what our sources for Sparta are like. ]

    Indeed, several of our sources – Plato, Aristotle and possibly Xenophon and even maybe Strabo are included here. Not grim Spartan warriors, but rather pampered Athenian philosophers (and Xenophon, who was both a pampered Athenian philosopher and a grim Athenian soldier).

    By contrast Plutarch – our last source – writes about the Spartans (in his Life of Lycurgus and Lysander as well as in the Moralia) at around 470 years after the height of Spartan power and 300 years since the last time Sparta had been even remotely militarily relevant (he is also a wealthy, well-connected Greek). By Plutarch’s day, Sparta had been reduced to little more than a tourist attraction under Roman rule.

    In short, these are all free, aristocratic fellows and they identify with the concerns and opinions of other free, aristocratic fellows. Xenophon was even buddies with one of the Spartan kings. How this society works for the poor Spartan, or the slave, or the non-citizen is simply not something any of these authors care about. They are partisans of the Spartan upper-class (some more than others).

    The powerful write the history, build the schools and the syllabi, are the gate-keepers, and shape the future. “Merit” has lots and lots of constraints and hidden variables that are hard to get around if you’re not in the appropriate group.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  188. 188.

    Jeffro

    @Alison Rose: but it’s rye bread and Swiss cheese, both of which you hate and you question the manager’s sanity for choosing such a combination.

    But what if the rye/swiss combo is also OLD, hmm?  What do I do then?   ;)

  190. 190.

    Brachiator

     

    @Another Scott:

    Ya’ll realize that Biden will probably win in November, going by Allan Lichtman’s 13 Keys.

    This is kinda interesting, but still about the same thing as reading tea leaves or looking at goat entrails for a hint of the future.

    In his 1988 book The Thirteen Keys to the Presidency, Lichtman defined his model as predicting the outcome of the popular vote.

    Here, Lichtman invalidates his own system.

  193. 193.

    Elizabelle

    @Brachiator:  Yeah.  The Electoral College is terrifying.

    But it is what we have.  At present. And  I do not see Trump and Republicans being stronger than they were in 2020, which was a win, albeit a tad closer in the EC than we would like.

  194. 194.

    Baud

    @Alison Rose:

    So instead you go out back to the dumpster which is also home to a family of raccoons, has four inches of standing rain water, and a drunk person took a piss in it just as you were walking up, and you scrape yesterday’s special off the bottom of it and eat that instead.

    Also known as the RFK, Jr. on white.

  195. 195.

    rikyrah

    @TBone:

    @rikyrah: fascism is here and it even lives across the street from me.

    Both of my parents grew up with American Fascism. It was called Jim Crow.

    And, I know full and well what the GOP wants to do with the rest of the country. Unlike others, I read a great deal on what they do in their states.

    I like my life in my blue city in my blue state.

    So, I fight to keep it that way.

  196. 196.

    H.E.Wolf

    One of my relatives has a phrase that I find valuable as a check on my own tendencies: “Identify a problem, refuse all solutions.”

    I think it’s very human to fall into that mindset now and again. I know I do. What I also do, as best I can, is remind myself not to stay there.

    When one of the candidates for whom I’ve written postcards wins an election, I take pride in being one of the many who helped make that happen. E pluribus, baby! :-)

  197. 197.

    VFX Lurker

    @Another Scott: DetroitNews.com has more.

    I don’t know if it’s changed, but I think of The Detroit News as the conservative paper, and The Detroit Free Press as the liberal paper.

    That said, this article still portrays outreach from Biden and angry public rejection from community leaders and elected officials.

    I am curious how they will privately vote this November.

  198. 198.

    VFX Lurker

    @rikyrah:

    But, the main reason why I’m not going anywhere is..

     

    If fascism comes to White people in America..

    the delusion is…thinking that you would be safe anywhere else in the world.

    I am a highly privileged cis white woman with Canadian in-laws, and this is EXACTLY how I feel. Thank you for writing this.

  199. 199.

    Soprano2

    @OGLiberal: You’re attacking the wrong people. Everyone who votes for Democrats (which is pretty much everyone who posts here) cares about your kids. I’m sorry you feel like this, I can relate because sometimes these days I feel pretty hopeless about my own personal situation.

  200. 200.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Baud: “we the jury find the pulp-free orange juice guilty of lacking nutrition, and do not consider its popularity with children a mitigating factor!”

  202. 202.

    Kayla Rudbek

    • @eclare: yes, being from Minnesota I grew up knowing Ole and Lena jokes, although a fair amount of that is Swede versus Dane, everyone else against the Finns, etc.
  204. 204.

    sab

    @Soprano2: My husband went to a parochial school that calls itself the “Fighting Irish” although a generation later LeBron James graduated from there. I think if they had been in North Hill neighborhood they’d all be pretending to be Polish or Italian.

  205. 205.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: Also, there is ample evidence they knew he was complete weirdo freak who should never be within 100 feet of a gun.

  207. 207.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @rikyrah: Other Republicans states have/are implementing this as well. Sorry, don’t have the list handy at the moment. One of them will retroactively revoking the drivers licenses of trans person who legally had their gender changed via court order — and well as reverting their birth certificates to the name they were assigned at birth. Which causes a multitude of other problems with legal ID.

  211. 211.

    Soprano2

    @lee: There are lots of MAGA’s here who are also Chiefs fans. I wonder how this stuff sounds to them. Crazy, most likely.

  212. 212.

    Soprano2

    @Betty Cracker: There a guy who works here in the Public Works Department who was seriously injured because some idiot involved in a domestic dispute fired a gun a block down the street; he was outside working in the yard when the bullet hit him. I don’t know if the shooter was prosecuted or not, but he should have been because it’s illegal for someone to discharge a gun inside the city limits here unless you’re authorized, like if you’re a police officer.

  213. 213.

    OGLiberal

    @Soprano2: Dude, I’m not attacking anybody here or anybody on our side.  I live in what the wingers would call coastal elite land and pretty much every white person here is MAGA.  It’s disheartening.  Can only imagine what it’s like in places like Alabama.  My wife is from New Orleans and while that town will always be run by Dems, the white people there are atrocious. She graduated with Amy Coney.  They are terrible.

  214. 214.

    Brachiator

    @Elizabelle:

    Yeah.  The Electoral College is terrifying.

    Yep. But getting rid of the Electoral College would weaken the power of the states, and make them closer to being irrelevant except as administrative units.

    There would be no practical reason for a presidential contender to visit smaller states.

    We might be headed in this direction, but there might be some interesting unintended consequences if we get there.

    But it is what we have.  At present. And  I do not see Trump and Republicans being stronger than they were in 2020, which was a win, albeit a tad closer in the EC than we would like.

    I agree that Trump and the GOP are in a weak position. But I also think that some Trump supporters who are elected officials are fanatics and will actively try to steal the election for him if he loses in the Electoral College.

    Things are going to be interesting. I hope that Trump is defeated and that the defeat is as conclusive as possible.

  216. 216.

    OGLiberal

    @TBone: This is my biggest challenge:

    “Believe in truth”

    I never, ever, sway from this.  Way too many people do and swinging them back to the truth is, almost always, impossible.  Not because the truth is false – by definition, it is not- but because they don’t want/like the truth.

  217. 217.

    evodevo

    @SFAW: Well, in Maysville, KY, where I lived for a number of years, the only local Catholic church was divided – literally – with the German Catholics sitting on one side and the Irish Catholics sitting on the other…

  218. 218.

    Soprano2

    @Sister Golden Bear: This is so gross, I’m so sorry this is happening to trans people. My state of MO isn’t much better. I don’t understand the fear and loathing of trans people that must be behind these efforts. I have no idea what has activated this sudden effort to deperson trans people. What the hell do they care anyway?

  219. 219.

    Soprano2

    @OGLiberal: I live in SWMO, so I know EXACTLY what it’s like to live among the MAGA’s. I think TFG got around 65% of the vote from this city, and probably more like 75% from the surrounding counties. It’ll probably be less this time, maybe 60%, as we’re slowly turning a little more liberal. This is the international headquarters of Assemblies of God! There are so, so many churches here. I work with quite a few of these people; we don’t talk about politics. A lot of them are customers at my bar; we don’t talk about politics, either, because I’m not going to persuade them and they certainly aren’t going to persuade me.

  220. 220.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Brachiator:

    Yep. But getting rid of the Electoral College would weaken the power of the states, and make them closer to being irrelevant except as administrative units.

    There would be no practical reason for a presidential contender to visit smaller states.

    Currently there’s no reason for Presidential contenders to campaign in many of the most populous states. That isn’t better.

  222. 222.

    evodevo

    @Suzanne:  Yeah…lol Jon Stewart…he couldn’t take doing a 5 day a week show.  How would he do in a 24-7 job?  For 4 years?  No expertise in the field –  burn out in a month, after getting rolled repeatedly by the GOPers mouthing bipartisanship ..

  223. 223.

    stinger

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t understand the “exciting” thing at all.

    Me neither. I’d ask them what exactly they mean by “exciting”. What qualities or actions are they looking for in a president?

    Obama was exciting to many, youthful, charismatic, our first black president. Would they find a youthful, charismatic, black WOMAN to be exciting? ‘Cause I got one for ya right here (well, if we were standing in the Naval Observatory).

  225. 225.

    Paul in KY

    @OGLiberal: Maybe you need to find some different white people to associate with? Do you think any ‘Jersey Stereotypes’ play into this (loud & brash & in-your-face), so the MAGgots are just more visible and annoying than usual?

  226. 226.

    stinger

    @Kelly:

    These two comments succinctly sum up my objection to term limits. Politics requires skill. Building skills requires practice. Politics is teamwork. Good teams practice together. Practice takes time.

    Excellent comment!

  227. 227.

    wjca

    @Kelly: These two comments succinctly sum up my objection to term limits. Politics requires skill. Building skills requires practice. Politics is teamwork. Good teams practice together. Practice takes time.

    Anyone who thinks that term limits are great might want to take a look at how they have worked in California.

    We used to have a legislature which wrote and passed legislation.  You might or might not like what was produced; but at least you knew who wrote it.  We now have a legislature which, at best, picks among various lobbyist-written bills to pass into law.  Because the remaining expertise on how to write and pass legislation is no longer in the (short-term and inexperienced) legislators.

  230. 230.

    OGLiberal

    @Paul in KY: i grew up here.  I watched hard core Dems turn into MAGAs.  I grew up in a blue collar town that was very white but also where Republicans didn’t even exist.  They are all MAGA nuts now, even those who moved away. It’s all because of taxes and a lot more non-white people in the area.  These people were always racist fucks- like the South, just took a while for them to change parties after the Dems decided not to be the slavery party. It’s all about racism, as rich here in blue NJ as it is in the South.  That said, we had a pretty good state election in 2022 but that’s because the state districts include a lot of non-white communities.  At the county level it’s all rich wingnuts. We’re drowning in them.

  231. 231.

    Paul in KY

    @OGLiberal: Very sorry to hear how many of them are now letting their ‘Stupid Evil Flag’ fly. Gosh, I feel bad that you and your family are stuck there. I’m in Central KY and there’s a bunch of them here, but they seem to stay a bit lower-key (right now) than they were back in 2016 – 2017.

    The only good thing, I guess, is that they are IDing for you which are racist shitheels.

  232. 232.

    OGLiberal

    @Paul in KY: Adding, what’s a shame is my county is quite diverse with a large minority population and a large LGBTQ population, but the rich white folks rule because taxes and racism, which many try to hide but it drives their votes because they don’t want their money going to lazy black folks in Asbury Park.

  234. 234.

    sab

    @Sister Golden Bear: I am so glad my trans niece left Ohio. She left for other reasons but she is safe and happy in California, and was neither in Ohio.

    I love Ohio, but that is just me as me. It’s pretty hostile to others, and we keep seeing the next couple of generations flee. My sister’s kids went to California, and my oldest granddaughter went to Virginia. They are happy where they went.

  236. 236.

    lowtechcyclist

    @NotMax: ​

    If still have the wherewithal afterward, the National Portrait Gallery often has special exhibitions of interest. And is nearly always uncrowded.

    I’ve never been there, but it’s on my list – you’re not the only one who’s recommended it.

    @Baud: ​

    Tourists are awful. And I frequently am one, so I know.

    Individually, there’s nothing wrong with them. But the sheer quantity of them that DC gets from cherry blossom season on, I’d rather avoid.

    Today at the American Indian museum, we had all the room in the world. It was great.

  237. 237.

    Geminid

    @sab: It sounds like things are working out for your granddaughter who moved to Virginia. Will you get a chance to visit her? Richmond’s pretty nice in the Spring. Summers can be a little different.

  238. 238.

    Helen

    @eclare: There is some friction between Swedes and Norwegians. Based on history, prejudice that was  carried over to America. Maybe it has finally died out but was real in the older generation of my family.

  239. 239.

    Ruckus

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It can be eye opening to work with others that you really don’t know to build things. Tools, buildings, etc, anything really. You have to adjust to a medium ground to accomplish anything. Often that isn’t that difficult but it sure can be on occasion. I’ve worked in manufacturing most of my life, custom tools to make other items, with people from many parts of the country and of the world. Sometimes you have to overlook a lot to accomplish the common  goal – a great tool that does what it is expected to do. Depending on the who it can be a difficult thing to pull off. You have to accept what they know – and don’t know, you have to accept their concepts and ideas/ideals and sometimes you learn a lot that otherwise you might never experience.

  240. 240.

    sab

    @Geminid: She just called today. A bit lonely, but happy. She got a raise at work a month into the job. Has a new friend. Boyfriend also happy.

    We will go to Va this summer. Husband has hardly left Ohio ever. I went to (and hated) boarding school in the District. Engaged to but broke off with a Virginia fiance back then. Haven’t been to Va or DC since. Never saw the Vietnam Wall although husband knew people listed on it. Also want to see the African American Museum if I can get tickets. And the art museums. And the Washington Cathedral.

    Last time I was anywhere near Manassas it was pure farm country.

  241. 241.

    Geminid

    @sab: They say the Lewis Ginter Arboretum in Richmond is worth visiting. And Richmond isn’t that bad in the summertime.

    Next time I’m in Richmond I want to check out the Arthur Ashe statue. He’s the last man standing on Monument Avenue now,  with a tennis racket and a book instead of a horse and a saber.

  242. 242.

    Another Scott

    @sab: A visit to DC is always worthwhile.  The NMAAHC is amazing.

    Wear comfortable shoes.  Sites on the Mall are decepively far apart.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  243. 243.

    Paul in KY

    @sab: Make sure you hit the National Botanical Gardens up near the US Capital building. Think you will like it. Also, if you want to go to Air & Space museum, you need to get a ticket online from their site. Tic is free, they only let so many in a day and it is #1 attraction on the Mall. All the other museums you just walk right in.

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