There has been speculation about whether Jack Smith would take this ridiculous ruling from Cannon to the 11th circuit, and whether he would try to have her removed from this case. This move from Jack Smith seems like a smart first step, basically telling Cannon that she fucked up and she has one chance to fix it before Jack Smith goes to the 11th Circuit.
Seems like a smart move to me.
BJ attorneys, and others, what say you?
BREAKING: THREAD: Jack Smith has filed a motion for Judge Cannon to RECONSIDER her recent ruling that would unseal witness names & the substance of their testimony, putting them at significant risk of immediate threats and intimidation. 1/
— Mueller, She Wrote (@MuellerSheWrote) February 9, 2024
from ThreadReader
BREAKING: THREAD: Jack Smith has filed a motion for Judge Cannon to RECONSIDER her recent ruling that would unseal witness names & the substance of their testimony, putting them at significant risk of immediate threats and intimidation. 1/
Smith says that trump attached protected discovery information to court filings to shift the burden to the government to prove sealing is necessary & that Cannon wrongly decided witness safety/grand jury secrecy/integrity of the trial are not good enough reasons to seal. 2/
Smith says Cannon was WRONG in 2 respects & should reconsider. He then cites the 11th circuit, which has bench slapped Cannon before. 3/
“First, the 11th Circuit has held that the compelling-interest standard applied by the Court does NOT apply to “documents filed in connection with motions to compel discovery,” which instead may be sealed or redacted simply upon a showing of “good cause”. 4/
I think this citation is important because I think Jack Smith is saying “If I appeal this to the 11th circuit, they’re going to reverse your ruling if you don’t do it now” because Cannon applied the WRONG LEGAL STANDARD. Then he gives the 2nd reason she’s wrong. 5/
Smith says she needs to change her ruling to “prevent manifest injustice.” Cannon’s erroneous order would ID over two dozen people who would otherwise remain anonymous, or will face threats over their testimony. 6/
“Reconsideration is warranted to correct CLEAR ERROR & prevent MANIFEST INJUSTICE.” Basically, trump attached protected discovery (witness names) to a motion to compel so he could ask Cannon to unseal them. A sneaky way to get a list of witnesses against him out to the public. 7/
Some of the things the government wants to remain under seal: witness interviews, including a transcript of one witness that didn’t want to be recorded, citing the risks from “trump world”, plus information about obstruction and witness intimidation. 8/
Transcripts of interviews detailing the process of finding attorneys for two individuals. I imagine this has to do with trump allies getting lawyers for other trump allies or defendants. 9/
Expert testimony about the Mar a Lago search, including information about the location of trump’s son’s bedroom. 10/
Jack Smith was allowed to attach an exhibit of threats made online to witnesses – threats that are currently under federal criminal investigation. I don’t have the filing yet on court listener to link, but here’s PACER link. I’ll add it when I get it. END/
OzarkHillbilly
I can’t see any reason to keep that secret.
s//
Alison Rose
Cannon should live up to her name and let us make her a human cannonball shot directly into the sun.
smith
I agree that this is a shot across her bow. He’s giving her a chance to back down before he takes it to the 11th Circuit. As I understand it, he’s been unable until now to face her down because she’s limited her mischief to paperless orders disguised as scheduling adjustments which are not appealable. It was inevitable, though, that she’d eventually have to issue a real order, given all the outrageous stuff TFG’s lawyers are demanding.
There’s the possibility of another chance for an appeal coming up soon as well, when she has to respond to TFG’s demand for his lawyers to be present at a meeting about withholding especially sensitive documents, a meeting at which the law expressly forbids their presence. If she agrees with TFG, Smith will have some pretty potent ammunition to make an appeal.
rikyrah
He’s giving that stupid heifer enough rope to hang her incompetent azz.
rikyrah
I love this guy’s channel.
He is hilarious.
His appreciation of classical music 😁
Since TikTok doesn’t do music for a lot of artists now…..he got imaginative :)
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8cQ1Ncj/
TBone
Into my veins
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N1tTN-b5KHg
Scout211
Thanks for the update, WaterGirl. Maybe Loose Cannon will allow herself to be slapped down with this filing. IANAL, but it does seem to me (at times) that she is walking a thin line. It’s almost as if she is not exactly welcoming a slap-down but maybe more like “stop me if you can, please” in order to serve her masters in a “well, I tried” kind of way but retain her judgeship.
But I am almost always wrong, especially about legal matters. But psychological matters? I’ve got some expertise and she is definitely a case study.
New Deal democrat
@smith: Agreed.
And the longer term strategy, if Cannon doesn’t reverse herself, may be to create a record in the 11th Circuit itself for a future motion, if (really “when”) Cannon goes in the tank for Trump the next time, to have Cannon removed from the case entirely. In essence, saying, “you 11th Circuit) have tried everything else, and it just hasn’t worked.”
topclimber
@rikyrah: I think sometimes Cannon WANTS to be removed. It will look bad for maybe 10 of the 40 years she likely has herself as a judge. But a lifetime tenure is a long one. She might even have time to turn into a credible judge after a decade or two of handling more prosaic cases.
However, if she presides (hah) over the actual trial she runs the risk of being tarred for life should she cheat on Trump’s behalf. On the other hand, should she unexpectedly play it straight (hah) and he loses the case, ah the MAGIT madness that will head her way!
cain
@Scout211: It confounds me to see so many ruin their lives trying to support Trump. Wrecking your career and reputation. I mean, does she not see the road of littered bodies behind the man?
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@topclimber: Looking at what happens if she continues versus if she tilts back towards impartiality, yeah, she’s in a lose-lose situation at the moment. But the threat is asymmetric: the non-Trumpists would just sanction her for going all-in on Trump, while the Trumpists would be ready to kill her if she didn’t.
teezyskeezy
@topclimber: If she really wants off the case she could recuse. On what basis? I don’t know, she could come up the same level bullshit to answer that as she does for all her other bad moves so far.
TBone
@rikyrah: 💜🔥
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1666959935702269955
Hoodie
@topclimber: If she wanted to do that, all she’d need to do is claim some sort of unspecified illness that would prevent her from handling the case. She’s a snake and will stay there as long as she can to protect Trump and build her cred with the Trump crowd.
teezyskeezy
@TBone: Weird, Peter Gabriel coming up a lot lately for me. Solsbury Hill just yesterday, and now this.
jonas
Cannon barely earned a “qualified” rating from the ABA when she was nominated for the court, so she doesn’t have as much experience as many other federal judges. But she’s not dumb. She knows what she’s doing. She doesn’t give a shit because she’s a Federalist Society hack and probably won’t care if Smith does eventually go to the 11th Circuit and she gets another slap-down or is removed from the case.
TBone
@teezyskeezy: that video speaks loudly to our current state of affairs. Coincidence? I think not 🤣
topclimber
@Hoodie: Nah, Trump would call her out on that and give her much more shit about possibly sticking him with a real judge by calling in sick instead of being expelled.
Anonymous At Work
Important context in 11th Circuit for Motions for Recusal: You come at the king, so you best not miss. Aka The Omar Little Standard. Jack Smith has one chance to ask for recusal, so he’s setting up a record of her rulings that show she is either stone-ignorant of the law and 11th circuit precedent OR is in the tank for TFG (or you know, both). Either one would be grounds for recusal but the 11th Circuit is 7-5 republican nominees, including 6 by TFG, so you have to be sure (Chief is William Pryor, who is conservative but not partisan).
Giving her an extra chance while also telling her that both the facts and the law are against her ruling would show willful ignorance of law/precedent AND being openly in favor of TFG.
smith
@Scout211: It’s hard to figure out her motivation in all this. She’s obviously in the tank for TFG, but her record prior to any cases involving him shows her to be remarkably incompetent as well. In addition, what she’s been doing has been so blatant, no finesse at all to disguise her machinations, it’s possible she’s just plain stupid.
There’s also a trait she shares with Alina Habba, beyond the incompetence and stupidity, and that’s adopting the attitude that she can act with impunity, with no consequences whatsover. Is that contagious? It’s very much a Trumpian trait that you can see in many of his acolytes.
kindness
I never thought that court cases were like playing poker. I figured they were more like chess, but damn! Jack Smith just threw down and dared Cannon to call his bluff. Me? I hope the bought and paid for Cannon doesn’t so she ends up being removed from the case by the 11th circuit court.
Are all Trump’s legal folk dumb?
Anonymous At Work
@jonas: There’s more mischief she can do later, so she probably doesn’t want a recusal. And a recusal means that the DC and Georgia cases would have free reign on the judicial calendar while the new judge gets appointed and runs back through pre-trial motions (potentially for a second time). The young Aileen’s main function now is interference.
waspuppet
@topclimber: Trumpist judges (including pre-Trumpist judges like Clarence Thomas) don’t care about being tarred for life. “Lifetime tenure, bitchez” is their motto. They have power and they don’t care whether they have no authority.
Trump wants that out there so he can say Jack Smith put it out there.
Hoodie
Not sure I’d characterize it as a “play.” Smith is just trying to protect the witnesses and classified information and Cannon is completely out of bounds (clear error). I wouldn’t be surprised if she modifies the order, but only after another delay. After all, she’s mostly interested in delay . She’ll just try to find another way to delay the proceedings now that she’s been called out on this particular one. She probably doesn’t want to go back to the 11th Circuit for a caning.
rikyrah
@TBone:
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Parfigliano
Judge Cannon’s moves are puposeful when you realize the intent is to gum everything up and delay delay delay. After all the delay the trial will be delayed further until after the election because of that idiotic DOJ memo.
TBone
If there won’t be dancing at the revolution, I’m not coming.
TBone
@rikyrah: 💜💜💜😎
Captain C
Question for the lawyerly types here: If Loose Cannon is ultimately removed, whether for incompetence or blatantly being in the tank for TFG, would that make it easier for future litigants in her court to get her decisions reversed or even her removed as trial judge from their cases because there is now a record of her incompetence and/or bias?
Captain C
@Hoodie:
11th Circuit: “You’re, ah, not here for the hunting, are you?”
danielx
Didn’t Cannon previously get slapped down by a higher court?
feebog
I think there are equal parts incompetence and partisanship at play here. This is a good move by JS, gives her a chance to back down, which she will not take. But a reversal on this issue by the 11th Circuit will not be enough to bump her from the case. It already looks like she will successfully delay this until after the election.
smith
@Anonymous At Work: The 11th Circuit may be conservative, but it’s been unsympathetic to attempts by the GA co-defendants to remove their cases to federal court, and it didn’t hesitate to slap Cannon down hard when she messed with the MAL search warrant. With a few outrageous exceptions, TFG’s judicial appointees have not leaned much if at all in his direction in any of his legal disputes. After all, they owe their appointments primarily to the Federalist Society, not to him.
Jackie
@cain: Every single person who bends over backwards while kissing TIFG’s ass think they’re that special someone he’ll be faithful and true to.
I don’t get it; it’s like being spouse #7 and thinking they have that special sumthin sumthin that will be different this time.🤷🏼♀️
hueyplong
Doing a motion for reconsideration before appealing isn’t all that unusual. One reason to do it in normal cases is to give the judge a chance to fix something without as much noise/embarrassment when you know you’ve got miles to go with that same judge before the case is over.
Obviously, there isn’t much about this case that is normal, and I agree that Cannon doesn’t care how transparently pro-Trump she is.
Harrison Wesley
If Judge Cannon is removed from the case, Trump will claim he never knew her (OK, maybe she brought him coffee once or twice – he doesn’t really remember her).
Ocotillo
IANAL so no opinion offered other than to say, if Smith can put fat bastard behind bars, I would offer him a seat on the Supremes or AG whichever he wanted.
Jackie
O/T but to everyone’s surprise (not):
Anonymous At Work
@smith: Hence the case needs to be strong but it won’t be partisan. There is some recognition at the appellate court level of goose-gander in being partisan, except for the 5th Circuit.
The 11th’s previous slap-down also imperiled criminal law by allowing “equitable jurisdiction” from any judge willing to grant it over any/all subpoenas. Judges make up rules and principles all the time (“judicial economy”) to make their job easier, so “equitable jurisidiction” on subpoenas was a slam dunk.
New Deal democrat
@smith: Cannon’s motivation, aside from what has already been stated, is a promotion to the 11th Circuit or the Supreme Court by either Trump if he wins the election, or the next Trumpy GOP president if he loses.
Jackie
@Harrison Wesley:
I disagree; he’ll be screaming it’s a SET UP/IT’S RIGGED/CROOKED JOE BIDEN IS BEHIND THIS!
And insist the Supremes reassign her!
rikyrah
Qondi (@QondiNtini) posted at 7:50 PM on Thu, Feb 08, 2024:
This is a kind, decent man
The way people won’t leave his sons alone is shameful
They keep going after Hunter and the memory of Beau BECAUSE he is a kind and decent man
(https://x.com/QondiNtini/status/1755770998761165088?t=GjAeSwxDrSWVNIBurmhbrQ&s=03)
Villago Delenda Est
Cannon is a partisan hack, unfit to sit on the bench.
Alison Rose
From Jaime Harrison on Twitter:
jonas
Unlike in the civil cases where he was stuck with
a bag of hammersHabba, he’s hired actual professionals to defend him in the criminal cases and, as we saw yesterday, before SCOTUS. To wit, they know how to give Cannon plenty of opportunities to delay and prejudice the FL case in Trump’s favor. We’ll see if they’ve been too clever by half, though.Scout211
I agree with the fact that he will use it in his campaign, but I really don’t think he cares one whit about Aileen Cannon. She would just be collateral damage and he won’t care at all.
Sister Golden Bear
OT, in the latest Republican move to eradicate trans/non-binary people from public life, Kansas AG Orders Schools To Out Trans Kids To Parents
If a trans/non-binary kids isn’t out to their parents, there’s a reason for that. It means staying closeted or risk being thrown out of the house, abused, or worse.
UncleEbeneezer
This Jack Smith guy really seems to know what he’s doing. Who made the smart decision to appoint him?…
Baud
@Sister Golden Bear:
I have a question which you should feel free to decline to answer. What portion of trans kids are out to their teachers but not their parents? I’m just having difficulty understanding how that works. Like for LGB, I don’t recall this teacher vs parents issue coming up. I would have assumed that almost all kids who were not out were not out to any adults.
surfk9
I think that she will eventually quit and go suck up some wingnut welfare.
UncleEbeneezer
@Sister Golden Bear: My non-lawyer opinion: If there is no KS law, what the AG says doesn’t really mean shit. The AG is only responsible for making sure people comply with laws that are on the books.
TBone
Ya can’t shake a w***e tree and expect a housewife to fall out.
zhena gogolia
@UncleEbeneezer: lol
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Jackie:
One can only hope. The fact that MD can elect a statewide GOPer reflects, well, something, I just don’t know what.
Sure, the western part of the state is as Pennsyltucky as it comes (and at least for a good while, southern MD wasn’t much better) but I will have lost all hope and faith if MD puts a clown like Hogan into the Senate.
TBone
@UncleEbeneezer: 😊
TBone
@Sister Golden Bear: can some kind of Child Protective Services intervene? I may be very naive here, I admit.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Especially with the right Senate, hopefully MD voters understand the situation, no matter how popular Hogan was as governor.
Mike in NC
Fat Bastard will hold a hate rally tomorrow in Conway, South Carolina. It’s one of those innumerable shithole places in the south where half the downtown storefronts have been boarded up for years, but there will be no shortage of poorly educated white trash clamoring to see him. Also would be hugely disappointed if both Tim Scott and Lindsey Graham don’t show up to massage his fragile ego.
TBone
@rikyrah: he should sink the dagger in about the adult children of you know who but I need to think on how best to do that without making things worse.
Alison Rose
@Sister Golden Bear: Seems another case of “the cruelty is the point”, because the monsters pushing this kind of thing certainly have zero problem with the possibility of that child being beaten or thrown out of their house.
I also wonder how teachers and faculty are meant to determine this. Obviously, if a child is using different pronouns or a name, sure. But what if you have a cis girl who is just a real tomboy, short hair, plays with the boys, maybe likes going by Sam instead of Samantha, but she’s cis. Are they going to question that? Is it going to become a case of forced gender essentialism?
It’s all so fucking gross and creepy. Grown adults spending way too much time thinking about children’s bodies.
TBone
@Alison Rose: 💜
smith
@UncleEbeneezer: Problem is, there will be schools that act on it anyway, and there will be kids who are broken. They will do it with the slimmest of “evidence” or no evidence at at all. It’s happening already in red states even without the fig leaf of a crackpot AG’s opinion.
TBone
@jonas: maybe Judge Engoron will affect his ability to pay for legal talent going forward. I am ever hopeful.
Alison Rose
@TBone: In red states, I imagine CPS or whatever equivalent would not intervene in these cases because they wouldn’t deem it child abuse.
Citizen Alan
@Harrison Wesley: First of all, she will not be removed from the bench for the same reason no one will ever be impeached for any reason so long as that person’s party controls at least a third of the senate. Second, if the democrats even try to impeach Canon, she will basically become Robert Bork 2.0.
Lyrebird
@Baud: Can’t speak for @Sister Golden Bear: , but I can say that it’s not strange for secondary schoolers to look to their more approachable teachers for all kinds of questions about life, especially about stuff they’ll catch a hiding for if they ask it at home.
ETA: insert obligatory Butter Emails remark… it really does take a village, and being an appropriately caring adult for kids going through confusing stuff is one of the reasons people teach. Not the only or even the biggest one nec.
TBone
@Alison Rose: wtaf this makes me so sad and angry – who gets to define abuse now? I know, the fuckers in charge of funding the agencies who should be stepping up 😡
HERE is how we can fight back – I did!
https://www.beaubidenfoundation.org/
John S.
@UncleEbeneezer:
The same guy who appointed Hur. Because it is possible for people to make both good and bad decisions. It’s not one or the other.
ETA: Good decisions do not shield one from making bad decisions, nor from being responsible for them (both good and bad).
Omnes Omnibus
@Harrison Wesley: He probably doesn’t know her.
Alison Rose
@Lyrebird: I think also there would be times where the kid was out to their friends at school, and a teacher overhears other students calling the kid by different name or pronouns.
Burrowing Owl
@Lyrebird: Likewise can’t speak for Sister Golden Bear, but I hear of kids who are out at school with their peers in class and teachers, but stay closeted at home.
Anoniminous
@Sister Golden Bear:
Isn’t beating the child to “cure the trans” the goal?
TBone
This foundation provides funding to FIGHT BACK
https://www.beaubidenfoundation.org/
Baud
@Lyrebird:
@Alison Rose:
@Burrowing Owl:
Thanks.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
It is a regular thing for transkids to attempt to join the playgroup of “The Wrong”(c) sex. It was – I don’t know about now – for that group to reject them and told to play with “The Right”(c) playgroup.
rikyrah
@Sister Golden Bear:
They are just phucking evil.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Sometimes, Baud, the child finds a teacher that they believe respects them, and that they can trust.
Now, the AG wants the teacher to violate that trust and take away a safe space for this child.
TBone
Child abuse prevention:
https://www.beaubidenfoundation.org/
Jackie
Cannon blinks:
surfk9
@Citizen Alan: Agreed!
UncleEbeneezer
@smith: Oh I know. I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise. I think ultimately any actions will be tossed out by courts but there will be tremendous damage done, in the meantime. That’s the GOP playbook now. Do something clearly illegal and hurt as many people as possible with it until it gets smacked down. Sad and disgusting.
TBone
@Jackie: more delay? I’m now confused.
rikyrah
@Burrowing Owl:
This was the case when I was in school. Almost everyone who was out when I was in High School, was not out to their parents.
rikyrah
SteveO (@OrmeStephan) posted at 0:38 AM on Fri, Feb 09, 2024:
Hey @PressSec, in light of the disgraceful behavior by the WH Press Corp in this latest press conference, consider inviting high school or journalism students from across the country to lead a press conference with the President – shame them, I mean show them, by example.
(https://x.com/OrmeStephan/status/1755843611806314861?t=yvJjsyAS35PdazHUfo6yyQ&s=03)
WaterGirl
@Jackie: And another 15-day stall for Cannon. Even when she does the right thing, she does the wrong thing.
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: Smith filed a motion. The other side gets an opportunity to respond to the motion. Then Cannon makes a decision. This is all part of the process.
Sister Golden Bear
@Baud: I’ll have to go look up stats on what percentage many trans kids are out to teachers, but not family.
But it’s not uncommon that when a trans kids doesn’t feel coming out at home, that they may confide in a teacher privately, or be out at school with friends, etc.
@UncleEbeneezer: My not-a-lawyer feeling as well, but it also requires someone to file a legal challenge.
@TBone: Unfortunately Child Protective Services in Republican states are tasked with being anti-trans — sometimes explicitly as in Texas, others implicitly as in Kansas. (I’m assuming the AG would also go after social workers who don’t out trans/non-binary kids to their parents.)
@Alison Rose:
They are already are. From earlier this week:
The Thin Black Duke
@rikyrah: Sometimes a child needs a adult who they trust that they can talk to. As you said, sometimes that isn’t the case with their parents.
smith
@TBone: Cannon could still make it much worse, by soliciting an answer from TFG, then sitting on making a ruling for months. She already did that with a protective order that could and should have been issued early on, but she waited months to make it.
TBone
BBC: U.S. Warns Israel Against Rafah Offensive
Alison Rose
@Sister Golden Bear: These people are so fucking sick.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: It was baked in when Smith filed the motion. Cannon is a shitty judge who is in the tank for Trump, but some things are just part of the process.
TBone
@smith: exactly. Thank you.
geg6
@rikyrah:
That would be awesome. He should do that!
UncleEbeneezer
@John S.: Point to some comments of yours applauding the numerous good ones. I’ve shared a ton of them here at BJ. I don’t remember you ever acknowledging them or suggesting that they be taken into account when we judge Garland’s overall performance as AG. Maybe I missed them. Show me some links. Otherwise my impression is that you are one of the numerous haters who does nothing but criticize DOJ/Garland.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: A process that TFG exploits to aid in his only viable legal strategy: delay, delay, delay.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: I never thought – thanks to Cannon – that this trial would happen before the Elections, anyway. I think this stall is an attempt to keep/postpone Smith from going to the 11th Circuit?
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I get that. It just seems that 15 days is excessive, when 5 days would surely do. [shrug]
WaterGirl
@Jackie: I think it’s a stall, just because she had an opportunity to stall, which Cannon will never pass up.
Burrowing Owl
@rikyrah: From what I see, some kids are out at home and some aren’t. Almost all the teachers respect what kids go by at school. My kids will let me know if a friend isn’t out at home so I don’t inadvertently out anyone.
Sister Golden Bear
@Lyrebird: @Alison Rose: @Burrowing Owl: These are among the common scenarios when a trans/non-binary kid isn’t out to their parents.
All the more evil because a 2022 study [PDF] found that more than a quarter of LGBTQ+ experienced homelessness, either being kicked out of the house, or running away to flee hostile environments. Of those, almost 40% of trans kids and 35% non-binary kids, and 24% of gender questioning kids experienced past/current housing instability — compared to cis kids experiencing 23% rates.
LGBTQ kids who reported housing instability or homelessness had nearly two times the odds of reporting depression, anxiety, and self-harm (numbers weren’t broken down by sexual identity/gender identity).
Baud
@Sister Golden Bear:
Thanks.
narya
The place I last worked had a program/location specifically for youths (up to age 24? I think), with the recognition that many kids had been thrown out of their homes for their gender identity or sexual orientation. That also makes it difficult for the kids to go to school anywhere, assuming that other students aren’t part of the problem (a HUGE assumption there). One of the programs at the location was support in getting one’s GED, which was a big help.
TBone
@rikyrah: excellent.
Sister Golden Bear
@Anoniminous:
Yes. FWIW, “conversion therapy” — now thankfully outlawed in many states — often relied on actual torture, such as electrical shocks, to “cure” LGBTQ kids. It also advocating cutting kids from all their friends, cutting off them off being online, etc.
More extreme adherent would homeschool their kids to isolate them from the entire world until their kids were “cured.” Still not-uncommon in the UK, as evidenced by posts in the infamously anti-trans Mumsnet forums. And then these parents are shocked when their kids cut off all contact as soon as they turn 18.
Also too, parents suddenly discovering their kids is trans — because the child didn’t feel safe telling them — is behind the widely-discredited TERF “rapid-onset gender dysphoria” theory, which the FTFNYT has pushed, and was widely pushed by the UK media. Essentially it argued that being trans was simply as a social fad among teens.
Miss Bianca
@Sister Golden Bear: Jesus. A state school board member did that? In a more perfect union, this person would be asked to resign immediately and subject to a vote to remove if they refused.
smith
@Miss Bianca: I hope at the very least the kid will sue the bejesus out of them.
Gravenstone
What has been done has been seen.
Alison Rose
@Sister Golden Bear: Ah yes, conversion therapy, the thing Mike Pence totally swore he was definitely not in favor of!!!!
John S.
@UncleEbeneezer:
That’s not my position in the slightest. I don’t need to prove anything to you. But you come across as reflexively defending Garland no matter what, which was implicit in your “hur, hur, hur, who appointed Smith” comment.
Eolirin
@Sister Golden Bear: Even if these anti trans and queer laws and actions aren’t deliberately designed to increase suicide rates among teens that’s what they’re going to do.
It’s not that far of a step from where things are to a return to full criminalization for being gay or trans. And then the pogroms start.
We cannot afford to lose any major election for the foreseeable future and we need some way of stopping red states from pulling this shit that’s going to actually work.
We are going to lose so many people as it is. We have to stop it from getting even worse.
oldgold
A big mistake was bringing this case in Florida. In my opinion there was enough of a nexus to DC to bring it there.
To have Cannon in charge of this case, even if she was not MAGA, which she is, is an outrage. In her last jury trial she forgot to swear in the jury! She is completely out of her depth.
Paul in KY
@Sister Golden Bear: I fear some poor child will die because of this.
Attempted Chemistry
@Baud: Dad of a trans son here. My boy had been out to friends for about three months and teachers for about two before telling us. And we had been telling him that being gay or straight, trans or cis, queer or not, was ok his whole life up to that point.
I think he felt that it would be safer to try being out to a teacher on the slim chance that we were going to be awful about it.
Emily68
@OzarkHillbilly: I figure the son is the youngest one, presumably still a minor.
rivers
@Baud: I was a teacher from the late 70’s to 2010 and I’m aware of gay students during that time who spoke to sympathetic teachers when they couldn’t speak to other adults. Students also spoke to teachers about other issues they felt they couldn’t tell their parents about.